I got vigorous imagery of Louis Rossman talking to this poor motherboard about someone mistreating it with a hot iron and no solder when I was watching the episode. I have to admit, I think this is how most of us have things around here: a unregulated soldering iron from 80s or 90s and no flux. At least that's how things have been for me for years. Two damage that could have been avoided with flux and an iron at the proper temperature.
After watching Louis I discovered flux and now feel like I can solder SMT with loads of confidence now. And desoldering braid works soooooo much better with a little flux as well!
LOL... Yep, there are personality types that insist that any way other their way is always WRONG! And there are other personality types than don't believe in "Its good enough", thus something is perfect, or is its not; anything less is a hack done by trailer park hackers who don't know what they are doing. :)
@@billb.3503Nah, assembling and disassembling a normal PC these days is a piece of cake. They're designed to be easy to work on, just like this old Mac here. Laptops and phones, on the other hand… 😬
Actually, it was a brief interlude. The original beige Macs were a nightmare to service, and they were designed to be. "Don't repair, repurchase!" was Jobs' theme song.
@@JimFortune That philosophy is still in use today by most manufacturers of consumer electronics. I'm glad that broken screens and dead batteries can be replaced on today's smartphones, hence that being all but easy to do.
Joseph Davies No. This is a relic from ancient, more civilized times when "planned obsolescence" was associated with basement companies from South Asia and cheap unreliable stuff. Big companies cared about brand reputation still. I was an Apple fan back then... not anymore since 2010s.
@@Diggnuts We have a fourth, known as "Sticky Kid". It's a sticky, gross... "material" that ends up everywhere. Can't ID- can't figure out how to exactly clean it- it stains *everything*...
I feel like every time I see 8-Bit Guy solder or desolder, I'm not only yelling FLUX DAMMIT FLUX, but I've now resorted to throwing flux at the screen.
@@cekpi7 It's great, but only helpful once solder starts flowing. You can see this highlighted at 2 points in the video. The first is when he's removing leads. The solder is very old and oxidized and on the second lead takes some effort to get enough heat transferred to melt the solder. A dab of flux when dealing with old solder makes things so much easier. The second is when adding on the new caps. You'll notice he tins the pads and the leads, this makes it much harder to install as the surfaces are uneven. He's doing it though because it distributes flux, it'd be much easier to add flux as it's own step instead of tinning everything.
@@russdill You are right, however if he added a bit of solder with flux to that old solder it would also work. Most of the time when i'm quickly trying to solder something i put component in place and just use solder with flux in it to solder it, not tinning each component before, this way surface is even and flux can reach both pcb and component at the same time. It's not wrong it just takes much more efford and time to do it right.
Actually there is a different methode to solder those smd parts. Remove the old solder from all pads, THEN pre tin only one pad. Put the part to solder on the pads and heat the one pad you pre tined. The part will sink into the solder. You can then solder each and every leg with standard solder with flux core. A needle tip and a 8 to 20 watt iron is warmly recommended for that technique.
Yep, that's leaked caps in the second power supply. That's just exactly what it looks like. Even the corrosion visible from the outside is caused by the caps. Had this happen to several Mac PSUs. You HAVE to replace them, especially the output filter caps. These are early low-ESR caps (early nichicon PL/PM series) which are notorious for leaking. And if the leakage didn't already spread over the whole board (and shielding), it might have accumulated UNDER the caps, where it functions as a conductor between the terminals of the cap. All the stuff you can see on the dead PSU is actually capacitor leakage. And another thing (yeah, there are many methods, i know): After taking it out of the dishwasher and removing leftover electrolyte, i would place the board into some distilled water for some time to dissolve any minerals from the tap water and invisible leftover electrolyte that stayed on the board.
Well, that's what the dishwasher tabs are for. It has acidic components so it should dissolve calcium carbonate from the water. Distilled water dissolve it sure, but when you put it out, that same water has to dry, making it leave the calcium on the board again.
Protip: If your solder smokes briefly and intensely like in 7:22, then your iron is too hot! It should hardly be smoking at all. Protip 2: If your soldering iron does not have a temperature knob, you can use a lamp dimmer to regulate its power
Protip 3: Never get your hot soldering iron into that crud of chemistry on the board but clean up the whole thing *before* making it hot and doing aggressive reactions of all kind! It were the chemicals on the board and contacts that did get the whole thing into smoke in that case.
Power regulation instead of temperature regulation is just plain dumb and useless. You can get a solid T12-style soldering station for 30 bucks on aliexpress...
@KeeDx3 Get two temperature controlled soldering irons. If you only have one, check out the TS100, it is pretty cheap and pretty good (but keep in mind that it requires 12-24V DC power; You can easily convert an old laptop PSU for that). Apply fresh solder to both capacitor pads. Set the irons to maybe ~370 degrees C, take one iron in each hand, and heat up both pads simultaneously. When the solder is melted, simply tilt the irons up in order to lift the cap off the board. This is a very effective and gentle way of removing SMD caps, or any other two pin SMD component, IMHO.
@KeeDx3 Look up Voultar on TH-cam, he does an excellent job showing the CORRECT technique which uses hot air and a soldering station. I did my old PC engine duo which has a crap ton of these caps and it now works flawlessly.
Here's mine: 1- Using a hot air SMT reflow workstation, it's easier to both unsolder old caps and resolder the new ones. I use a a Gordak 952 myself, but better / more suitable solder rework stations also exist. *[1] 3- Someone else already said it, but using more solder flux is always better and makes everything much easier! You can always remove the excess flux with some alcohol. 3- I'd say using a pair of precision tweezers instead of plyers is also a must. If you're interested, watch Voultar's videos. He makes pretty awesome tutorials for doing work on retro hardware :) However, I approve of The 8-bit Guys method of breaking the leads, it's a safe method and the only downside is the extra time it takes, and that soldering job might not turn out just as clean and professional. That doesn't really matter, as the final results definitely work well. *[1] - (EDIT: as multiple people already said, it may not be a good idea to use hot air with corroded pads (like here) as you might risk breaking them apart. TBH, I have never worked on a PCB with "cap juice" on them before, and I just wanted to share my experience with you.
@@cruiser1333 The problem with the hot air method when the pads and caps are this corroded it is very very hard to get the suckers to melt. You end up doing more damage. I have recapped dozens of boards and when they are this corroded cutting them off, in my experience, has been far more successful.
When soldering surface mount capacitors by hand, apply a SMALL amount of solder to one of the pcb pads. Hold the cap on the pads pressing down slightly and heat the pre-tinned pad to melt the solder, and seat the cap in place. Then solder the other lead. Finally, reflow the first lead with a bit of flux and you're done!
He removes those capacitors the same way my dentist removes teeth: a little twisting, a little tugging, a little more cranking and pulling, and then... voila!
Hi David, Not an expert by I do rework some boards. Get some $5 Hakko SMD tweezers from Amazon, makes holding parts while you solder so much easier. Also worth considering getting a cheap hot air rework station. That way you just heat up the part and the caps lift right off. You can then flux and solder the replacements way easier. I spent $250 on mine, but I've used $100 stations and they're fine for what you're doing.
Hot air is my choice for this kind of thing. Just have to be careful not to knock any of the other components out of place while doing it, but they're easy enough to put back if you do.
@mickelilltroll77 Normally, yes. But these surface mount electrolytics are just horrid little things. You end up melting the plastic base with the tweezers more often than not. Hot air all the way. Busting them with pliers can stress the PCB and lift pads very easily. At least cut them with some side snips if you're going to go medieval on them. That still has a risk of stressing the pads, but not as much.
TDK power supplies all go eventually tick-tock (literally!) when the secondary filter caps leak. I repaired about 30 of them, don't ask why. All of them needed just the capacitors, and I even started to recap them on sight even those which were still working. You did it almost 100% right, only concern would be that you missed two capacitors near the RAM slots. Also the corrosion around the legs of the small chips and the audio IC (the big chip in the left corner) is still present. I usually did a bulk recap of about 10 boards and put them all in dishwasher 2-3 cycles before soldering new capacitors. For the capacitors, I used tantalum ones at first, but when my stock of them dried up, I switched to ceramic ones and polymer for the values I couldn't get ceramics. Much better in the long run and they will not leak again! Few Mac systems that need recaps are: Mac SE/30, Mac II series, all Mac Classic series, PowerBook 100, PowerBook 100-140-160 LCD screens, PowerBook Power Bricks!, all LC and Performa series, all Quadras and all PowerMacs 6100, 7100, 7200, etc. PowerBook Duos, PowerBook Duo Docks, internal CD-ROM drives in Quadras and PowerMacs (especially those with external caddies), some internal floppy drives, and I am sure I missed a few. These are just the ones I remember fixing :) Yes, even the Power Macintosh models started to have capacitor issues :(
I think you left the kettle on the stove again (the whistling noise from the speaker sounded like the kettle going off). Or in TH-cam auto gen captions: [Applause] [Music]
@@tails64dsntchannel8 Buying a new one isn't going to fix the old board, if he would have bought a new one there would still be a faulty board in existence. Plus, why wouldn't a guy like this repair a board like this?
Just because he got lucky and it worked for him does not mean that it will work for everyone. I was shaking my head at every action he took in recapping this board. He got very lucky in deed. If it were a total failure, he would never have posted the video, send the board to repair and make it look like he fixed it.
I've done the dishwasher trick, especially on expensive keyboards. A tip: regular tap water contains minerals, which once dry can create shorts. Do a final rinse in a tub of distilled water before drying.
you can even use horse piss if you want....you just cannot unsolder one lead and tilt the component like you do on through hole because you WILL lift a trace...breaking them with sideways rotational motion is safe, effective and recommended and you can use flux but you do the same job without it.this not reballing a gpu or anything like that. and yes i do electronics work on a daily basis mainly automotive ecu's . also if you spend too much time with the iron either dessoldering or soldering them you will break the bond between the trace and the board, if both parts are tinned and you have a steady hand, one second dwell time is more than enough on each leg
There's allot of ways to pull corroded caps off s board without damaging it. But when it comes to flux there's only one way.......US FLUX! The flux in solder is good for one use then you start to get a cold solder joint. Once the solder can't flow you've got a shit joint. Simple as that.
@@animalyze7120 You need to be more educated then that. The flux in the solder is good for a single use and is only good for applications where you're dealing with two brand new surfaces. In this case you're dealing with a very old and corroded surface in which the cleaning properties in flux will not only clean the pads up further, but they'll allow the solder to flow to where it needs to go.
I worked in a PCB factory for about 2 years, and replacing SMDs was part of my job. The correct way to install a surface-mount electrolytic capacitor (as well as other types of SMDs) is to add a little solder to one of the pads, which you'll use to tack the capacitor in place. Then solder the leg that isn't tacked down, which will give you a proper solder joint on that leg, then reflow the solder on the tacked-down leg, which will give you a proper solder joint on that leg too. A small, angled, conical tip is ideal for installing SMDs. At work we used Metcal STSS and MX-500 solder stations with STTC-126 tip cartridges (I have the same setup at home too), along with 0.015" diameter Alpha Metals SMT Core Cleanline Plus 63/37 solder (P1 flux percentage) for tiny SMTs, and 0.020" diameter for through-hole components.
right. it took me 3 days to make that decission with my A2000 board. It worked well, looked like new. But I didnt use a tab and no heating/drying phase in the dishwasher. After that, water was displaced by alcohol (isopropanol), evaporates fast.
Safe? You seem to be a lucky guy, as sometimes it indeed can go horrible wrong. Dishwashers and water especially with cleaning tabs are a big no-no for cleaning of boards like everything treating electronics directly with water. Components are not hermetically sealed, water can creep below components and eating away modern BGA soldering balls/ contacts, it even can creep into the components itself eating away the pins, in some rare cases it can even get it's way up to the Dye itself! So, if you use a dishwasher, do it on your own risk!
Nice restore, for those surface mount capacitors what I would recommend getting is some ceramic tweezers. Don't cost too much and small enough not to get in the way and the heat doesn't shoot up them due to their nature.
Hey David I'm from Germany and I have a *super* rare Yamaha dsr 2000 keyboard which needs to get refurbished so if you want to have it I would send it to you...
Great result, David! I can confirm that the twisting cap method is effective. Also, I have washed many boards in a dishwasher with no adverse effects. I do remove the RAM and socketed chips to be safe. And dishwasher detergent is an effective method of cleaning ‘Cap Juice’ from boards. After the dishwashe, be sure to flush the boards with isopropyl alcohol and then deionised water to rinse any debris from the board. Airdusters are good to blow water from under chips and chip carriers. Compressor air is not a good source as it can contain moisture and unless it is properly earthed, may be damaged with ions in the compressor air. In work we place boards to be dried in an oven at 50° C for up to thirty minutes to drive out any moisture.
Nah. It's more than good enough :P You can even scrub them down with a dish-brush in the sink if you want. Just make d*mn sure it's dry before powering it on again lol
@@TUUK2006 Google temperatures in a dish washer and you will edit your comment. Additives? What are they? I have done that dozens times as well as many people here with no problem at all. Try before you comment.
@@TUUK2006 yeah, the problem is SALT. Which you literally have to put in your dishwasher. You have to wash the board with distilled water afterwards, otherwise god knows how much is the leftover salt going to corrode the board later on
I think a large ultrasonic tank would probably the most delicate way to clean boards. Distilled water, maybe with a bit of alcohol. But the usual ultrasonic cleaners are for small objects, like glasses. The dishwasher seems fine, but I guess you have to keep an eye on the temperature.
Oh, ok. This is news to me. I saw that Louis Rossmann puts all boards into a cleaner after a repair. But maybe vintage oscillators can break. However they should be something that can be more easily replaced. But it’s worrying.
90's SMD caps, our poor poor machines. I would have washed before desolder - those fumes... Dishwasher is great, careful with any labels you want to keep intact.
Whatever sound is played and auto-captioning is rubbish and unable to identify what the hell it suppose to mean it just shouts this instead. I mean this could be "music", dubstep or industrial aggrotech or other bonkers garbage noise.
3:39 You should really use liquid flux and add fresh solder. 7:33 If you plan to do more SMD rework, you should get a hot air station. It makes soldering and removing SMD parts way easier.
@@slap_my_hand it's sort of 50/50 on the snapping leads vs hot air for removal, if the pads are in bad shape, sometimes the solder is holding everything together, of course since he didn't use flux or a well tinned tip it didn't make any difference anyways. Lots of flux and a hot air station (or hot tip tweezers) would have been the best way to remove the caps
Both are correct! Depends upon the caps themselves, their age, phase of the moon... Seriously, with different manufacturers and different production dates, it's hard to make a blanket statement. Don't forget to get quality replacements, or you'll be back in there replacing them again. Also, check out MikesRadioRepair TH-cam channel. He talks about some adhesive that turns corrosive over time as it soaks up moisture from the air. It has a similar effect to the leaking electrolyte.
Recapping really never hurts when refurbishing electronics. For power supplies it makes them far less likely to kill boards, and for things like CRT monitors it can actually make the geometry a lot more consistent as well as fixing color issues. If it’s something you care about that you’d like to stick around for a while recapping it will cut out the most common point of failure on a large amount of tech.
@@Evildandalo Except sometimes you see really bad recap jobs where borderline unsuitable and suspicious caps have been used. Also when you install a new part, even if you don't use low-quality parts, sometimes you still can't be quite sure whether it's not a dud and whether it won't give up a short while later due to a latent defect, even if it reads fine at first sight. If they are through-hole, you lift up a leg, connect it to an LCR which measures ESR and leakage, and if it looks only slightly worse than a capacitor that is fresh out of the factory or exactly the same as one that spent just a couple years in storage, often the Nichicon caps you'll see in a C64 for example, well... if it has degraded this little in 30 years prior, it should be good to go for another 30, i see it as a lower risk just putting it straight back in. Also there's always a bit of a risk of damaging the board. I think it's best to ask around what the repair community consensus is, whether there are known issues with a particular product family or batch, and if there is a good possibility that there is, replace right away, otherwise, don't fix what isn't broken. Sometimes capacitors last less than 4 years, sometimes they are still perfect after 40, and it's dependent both on the capacitor, on the operating environment such as whether there are heat sources nearby, and on the circuit.
1. For god's sake USE FLUX (f/ex. rosin gel), then do ANY [de-]soldering works (flux inside solder tube is not enough). That makes soldering reliable and even much comfortable and faster. 2. Alcohol does not dissolve inorganic substances (i.e. electrolyte). Brush them with water (distilled or tap one) or other inorganic solvents. (AFAIK, the best is finish with water (remove solvents and detergents), distilled water (remove remaining inorganics), (iso-)propanol/alcohol (to remove remaining organics and water)). 3. Electrolyte could remain under ICs.
Definitely do NOT use the pliers method for anything valuable. The risk of losing a trace is real, and you have to remove the snapped leads anyway. Hot air is the way to go. It's quicker and safer.
I used to be a body piercer , you should pick up some hemostats if you can find them! Can get them in quite a few different sizes to find the best fit for your hand, and at different lengths. They'd be perfect for those tiny pieces, i used them all the time for helping me screw on the threaded ends of jewelry in hard to reach ear piercings. I have big hands so that was always a pain spot for me lol love the videos man!
I've got an LC II myself. It's been in storage for a while though. Didn't know these were so prone to leaky caps. Good to know! I'll have to check out mine when I get it out of storage. I know mine had the problem of "endless reboot". It would randomly reboot itself whenever it wanted and sometimes just get stuck on the gray reboot screen while replaying the Mac boot tone over and over. Still never found out what was causing that. Possibly HD as it's the original. That HD emulator looks like something I'd be interested in for mine. Great video as always David!
Nice Video here 8-Bit Guy. I've ordered some SMD capacitors for my LCII from console5 Going to look into restoring it, I already retrobrited my LCII back in 2015, even 6 years later it's still nice and white. :). Will do the same for my Colour Classic too.
I've washed many electronic parts in the sink (I don't have a dishwasher) with no problems. As long as there's no current going through the board (hence the battery removal) then you're good. Remove all excess water then leave to dry in a warm/dry area, preferably in a way that will let any extra water roll off as opposed to sit in place and corrode.
And if you do it right. @The 8-Bit Guy : Put flux on the PCB (and the cap if you will) Put solder only on one pad of the PCB Gently maintain the solder barely melt on the PCB while placing the cap with a set of tweezers When in place, remove the solder iron from the pad. The cap should be soldered in the correct spot. Now, solder the other pad, without stress. When done, you can reflow (remelt) your first solder to release tension. Sounds hard, but it's awfully simple in fact.
It's really painful to see removing caps like that, and "Nobody can agree on how to remove SMD capacitors" it's golden, flux and a desoldering station is the way to do it, you have access to so many clever people with background in electronics, like the guy you took the 128 motherboard to repair, why don't you ask that guy on how to do it?. Look for "voultar" videos on YT, he shows pretty extensively how to properly do that kind of tasks.
I regret selling my very good condition LC II in 2010. Some Craigslist hawk in Portland, OR got a great deal, I just needed money to move! He probably got my mom's work documents from 1991. I think it was running Mac OS 7.0.1, had the Apple II card, we upgraded it to 10mb RAM and I even got an external 12X CD-ROM for it. Eventually it got replaced with a Performa 636CD and a Power Mac 6115CD. Oh... 90's Apple...
Bashes head into key board....HE DIDN'T TAKE THE ROM CHIPS OFF THE BOARD! THE ROM CHIPS ARE PERMIABLE TO WATER! See those teeth exiting from the chips? theres a space the size of a human hair surrounding them, which means water, chlorine and salt have now made their way inside them! Also you notice how all the black plastics after the wash now have a dull greying to their surfaces? yeah thats because they have been heat oxidized, meaning that chlorine has oxidized them and the salt in the dishwashing pod has stripped them of their color, and now that the whole board is covered in a thin layer of salt, in a few months any exposed copper, tin, zinc or alluminum will corrode and begin destroying the connected components like the pins in all the connector ports, and the steel cases of the board clocks! Also fun fact. The coating of laqure like material sealing the board itself, yeah its permeable to chlorine and causes the traces to become exposed to oxygen.
Ah yes, Vette, you could run over a dozen pedestrians on the sidewalk, get pulled over by a cop, and say “but officer, I needed to find a bathroom… badly,” and he might just let you go.
This is PAINFUL...watching him kill a motherboard slowly. People......NEVER PUT A BOARD IN THE F*CKING DISHWASHER! EVER! Yes you can rinse them off with DISTILLED WATER or iso alcohol, easily with almost no risk of damage. However chlorinated tap water, the high heat of the washer and the penetrating effect of "STEAM" along with the salts from cleaners in the washer will make their way into the microchips through the micro thin spaces where the pins exit the chips on the board and completely corrode them from within their black plastic shells. I tried this once on a dead board I had and let it sit for 6 months after, then pried a chip off the board cut it open and was greeted with a partially dissolved circuitry and ruted pins ends where they connected to the inner workings. 4 other chips showed the same kind of damage corrosion from the edge inward to center. These things aren't china... their sophisitcated circuitry that happen to be very robust due to the era they were made. Resisitent not impervious! Just don't do this! Distilled water rinse and iso alcohol only! if you have exceptionally sticky cap juice you can use baking soda and a tooth brush, added benefit of nutralizing the acid. And always immeadiately heat dry it after rinsing, with a blow dryer on high or heat gun.
Theory: The computer didn't have any problems but merely gained sentience and experienced the pain of living when it was turned on, causing it to scream in horror.
When pre-tinning small components I like to use some duct tape wrapped around itself sticky side out, then stuck to the working surface. If you want it tight wrap it around a small piece of cardboard. Works like a charm.
Twisting the caps like that IS the safer method for cap removal, I do it regularly. HOWEVER! Before you remove the leads.... ALWAYS clean off the cap juice from the board BEFORE using the iron to remove the leads! Take a tooth brush, some 90% iso alcohol and scrub that board down then rinse it off with Distilled water and heat dry with a hair dryer on high. The reason you need to do this is very simple, the cap juice slows down the rate at which the solder will melt, however it also allows for the copper pads under the solderto heat up far to much and it can result in the pads delaminating from the board destroying it. This is a common mistake that even I once made in my early days, that resulted in the destruction a prized mac SE30 board that was otherwise pristine!
You know, I know a lot of people do it this way and generally speaking it doesn't really damaged the traces so long as he twists them off, but I I have never felt comfortable doing it. LOL it feels wrong and dangerous to me. 😅 I've seen videos though of people I respect greatly doing it though, like mr. Carlson from mr. Carlson's lab. I honestly can't imagine that man ever doing something that could damage the device he was working on.
That particular board is so thick that twisting the caps won't damage it, but doing that on a thinner one could definately cause it to crack and damage traces. If you don't have the right tools (hot air station for SMD or desoldering station for through hole components) there aré safer ways :p (flush cutters, desoldering braid, etc).
I am watching this video as I am preparing for recapping and installing FPU to my old LC II. Believe it or not dishwashers are not very common where I live, so I think I’ll have to scrub it a lot. I also bought some soldering flux to help me soldering the new capacitors.
@@nznegativeions well that all depends on what your soldering new to old, old to old or new to new but the general i was taight over 20yrs ago was always use flux, no matter what and it has always worked for me from the military to civilian life
Noob here, but would it be possible for him to use the dishwashers drying function to avoid access water on the motherboard, or would that damage it more than repair it?
I remember washing my keyboards in the dishwasher and everyone was telling me I was going to ruin them. as long as you lay them out to dry for a few days, they are good as new. rather then vacuuming out all the lint and stuff, I would pull the drivers and power supply and do the same thing.
I have a dishwasher in my workshop,I've got 2 Mercedes mechatronic boards in there at the moment.they are situated in the base of the cars transmission and constantly immersed in hot transmission fluid,which can make repairs to an uncleaned board difficult and very smelly.I clean all manner of parts in it,electrical and mechanical parts, I just place a cup or two of traffic film remover in the washer as a detergent. As you mentioned if you dry stuff out properly you have no problems, compressed air at a good pressure is the best solution.
No chemicals to "neutralise" them. Just rinse chemicals off the PCB/ components, so they can not continue to do the destructional work any more. You may not leave the chemicals on the PCB at all. Not even if "neutralized"! BTW: neutralizing is what flux would do on it's own automatically...
first get some flux and flux-cored solder. Get a different tip and some tweezers, see some videos and practice. These are not tiny at all, i can solder 0.5mm pitch and i am no pro
I don’t understand the youtube community’s aversion to isopropanol for cleaning and distilled water to wipe it off. It’s been standard practice for 3 decades. „Hurr durr I use soapwater, worked!“ yeah and then it corrodes.
I have done many stupid and hazardous things with electronics over the last 45 years. But I would *never ever* put those chemicals (that are in/on a pcb) in my dishwasher, especially not with children in the household.
Just some helpful advice to make soldering the SMT caps a little easier. A cheap set of tweezers works much better than pliers for holding them. Also, it's easier to tin only one pad first, then hold the cap in place while you "tack weld" just one leg first, then go back and fill in the second pad after its already held in place by one leg. This method also ensures the cap it flush with the board and not tilted or wonky. Also, little gel flux helps alot too to get those solder joints nice and shiny! Just want to be sure to clean it after with some alcohol and brush.
"pure liquid evil" sounds like an 80s metal band
or my seed. lol
"Capacitor Metal Fatigue" would be the 90s equivalent to it xD
The day after Taco Bell or a night of heavy drinking lol
@@luicecifer i bet Fear Factory would have loved that name together with 'self bias resistor' :D
Raise a glass for me lol
"When my computer starts, it screams." That's a new one.
Straight from my nightmares
obviously possessed
From the PURE LIQUID EVIL
No he shoved a kettle in it
sounds like one of those creepy pasta video titles
I just misread this as “Macintosh recapping dishwasher” - that’s a skilled Mac
same here lol
Lol
Me too
Or a skilled dishwasher.
Zylon FPV I just missread that as Macintosh Recap IN Dishwasher. That's a skilled, not to mention sodden, 8 bit guy!
I appreciate the “Cap Juice” supertitles because I would have sworn he said “Cat Juice.”
I wouldnt be surprised if my mom's computer has some "Cat Juice" in it :/
that's all i heard. grossed me out every single time. 10/10 would listen again. 1:30
R.I.P cat
Stinky
Yea
David, soldering flux is your friend -- your very best friend. In my mind, I can hear Louis Rossman shouting into his screen, "You're doing it wrong."
Yes that or add a bit of solder to help melt and release what's already there.
I got vigorous imagery of Louis Rossman talking to this poor motherboard about someone mistreating it with a hot iron and no solder when I was watching the episode. I have to admit, I think this is how most of us have things around here: a unregulated soldering iron from 80s or 90s and no flux. At least that's how things have been for me for years. Two damage that could have been avoided with flux and an iron at the proper temperature.
After watching Louis I discovered flux and now feel like I can solder SMT with loads of confidence now. And desoldering braid works soooooo much better with a little flux as well!
you can buy solder with flux built-in. It's what i use.
LOL... Yep, there are personality types that insist that any way other their way is always WRONG! And there are other personality types than don't believe in "Its good enough", thus something is perfect, or is its not; anything less is a hack done by trailer park hackers who don't know what they are doing. :)
That screaming
It must have been in incredible pain
It was cursed.
"shh shh shh shh shh into the dishwasher... everything will be okay now... you wont have to feel pain any more..."
i relate to that
naaaah, its a demon for sure!
The sound is just the built in kettle
Knowing the fate of these Macs that I remembered as super modern computers makes me feel old.
I’m fascinated by the old computers and monitors
I see you everywhere. MJR, 8 bit guy, and LGR (I think).
Yes, if cooking keys isn't sufficient, now, we will clean the motherboard in the dishwasher. The 8-bit Guy rules.
You'd almost expect this from Retro Recipes
@@andrewrobotbuilder *t a s t y*
@VideoToaster. Finally, some good fucking food
Imagine if a Mac were this easy to disassemble/reassemble today! 😂
Modern stuff is all just made to be thrown away and replaced, not fixed..
i think the 2011 macbook pro (thats new i think i daily drive it)
If they we‘re, I‘d need wheels on mine to push it to work.
@@billb.3503Nah, assembling and disassembling a normal PC these days is a piece of cake. They're designed to be easy to work on, just like this old Mac here. Laptops and phones, on the other hand… 😬
Ah, when Macs were servicable, upgradeable and Apple didn't regard their products as disposable. That was a while ago.
Yup same.
Actually, it was a brief interlude. The original beige Macs were a nightmare to service, and they were designed to be. "Don't repair, repurchase!" was Jobs' theme song.
@@JimFortune That philosophy is still in use today by most manufacturers of consumer electronics. I'm glad that broken screens and dead batteries can be replaced on today's smartphones, hence that being all but easy to do.
Yeah it was basically 1988 to about 2004 or so that most Macs were serviceable like this
The Woz's influence.
9:09 Desktop folder was last modified in 1956. This was Doc Brown's old computer, and the flux capacitor leaked on the board.
It defaults to that date when the PRAM battery is dead. All the Beige models do this.
@@R33Racer r/whoosh
@@deadgaming20 I got the BtTF reference. I'm explaning to anyone that may be curious as to why that happens, you moron.
@@R33Racer Just curious as to why it would default to 1956 as opposed to the manufacturers date? Thanks for your input.
@@analogidc1394I wondered that myself. That I don't know. Maybe it's the earliest date it can be set to?
Awesome. An Apple product you can disassemble and repair without magic spells or any other exotic tools like the 42 lobe screw extractor.
Well, this machine _was_ made during the era in which Jobs was absent from the company...
@@JosephDavies well, why does it still happen now?
@@keselekbakiak Well ... Being DEAD, he's still "absent"! 😵
@@rogersmith9808 Being dead is the problem, he's a martyr for the cause of being a f*****g c**t now.
Joseph Davies No. This is a relic from ancient, more civilized times when "planned obsolescence" was associated with basement companies from South Asia and cheap unreliable stuff. Big companies cared about brand reputation still. I was an Apple fan back then... not anymore since 2010s.
Lovely stuff. And thanks for the cap-tion; I thought you'd said "Cat Juice". But that's for another video...
Retro Recipes same here. Was hoping this was your video. Lol. Oh so when’s your next video coming out
Fun fact, "Cat Juice" is actually the third most common liquid to damage electronics.
Wild Perifractic appeared!
Hmm, no worms here. But I wonder where he got the idea to use a dishwasher.
@@Diggnuts We have a fourth, known as "Sticky Kid". It's a sticky, gross... "material" that ends up everywhere. Can't ID- can't figure out how to exactly clean it- it stains *everything*...
I feel like every time I see 8-Bit Guy solder or desolder, I'm not only yelling FLUX DAMMIT FLUX, but I've now resorted to throwing flux at the screen.
Solder has flux core. Works fine if you want to do decent enough job.
@@cekpi7 Sure it does, but especially when dealing with SMDs it's so much easier. Just like when you're doing anal, more lube is better.
@@cekpi7 It's great, but only helpful once solder starts flowing. You can see this highlighted at 2 points in the video. The first is when he's removing leads. The solder is very old and oxidized and on the second lead takes some effort to get enough heat transferred to melt the solder. A dab of flux when dealing with old solder makes things so much easier.
The second is when adding on the new caps. You'll notice he tins the pads and the leads, this makes it much harder to install as the surfaces are uneven. He's doing it though because it distributes flux, it'd be much easier to add flux as it's own step instead of tinning everything.
@@russdill You are right, however if he added a bit of solder with flux to that old solder it would also work. Most of the time when i'm quickly trying to solder something i put component in place and just use solder with flux in it to solder it, not tinning each component before, this way surface is even and flux can reach both pcb and component at the same time. It's not wrong it just takes much more efford and time to do it right.
Actually there is a different methode to solder those smd parts. Remove the old solder from all pads, THEN pre tin only one pad. Put the part to solder on the pads and heat the one pad you pre tined. The part will sink into the solder. You can then solder each and every leg with standard solder with flux core. A needle tip and a 8 to 20 watt iron is warmly recommended for that technique.
Yep, that's leaked caps in the second power supply. That's just exactly what it looks like. Even the corrosion visible from the outside is caused by the caps. Had this happen to several Mac PSUs.
You HAVE to replace them, especially the output filter caps. These are early low-ESR caps (early nichicon PL/PM series) which are notorious for leaking. And if the leakage didn't already spread over the whole board (and shielding), it might have accumulated UNDER the caps, where it functions as a conductor between the terminals of the cap. All the stuff you can see on the dead PSU is actually capacitor leakage.
And another thing (yeah, there are many methods, i know): After taking it out of the dishwasher and removing leftover electrolyte, i would place the board into some distilled water for some time to dissolve any minerals from the tap water and invisible leftover electrolyte that stayed on the board.
Well, that's what the dishwasher tabs are for. It has acidic components so it should dissolve calcium carbonate from the water. Distilled water dissolve it sure, but when you put it out, that same water has to dry, making it leave the calcium on the board again.
I would have soaked it with a bit of alcohol afterwards.
@@darkcoeficient I also do this in IPA, since alcohol displaces water, yeah. But I really recommend doing this on the outside of your house.
@@niino4329 that is what I had in mind, the displacement.
@@niino4329 wait... WHAT?
On Tadiran lithium batteries like you used, the date is in fact the *production* date and not the expiration date.
nynyny7 I work with Tadiran cells 5 days a week. And they are such great products. Long life too! Can last over 20 years too, in some circumstances!
Did you see the "Made in Israel label on the P-Ram Batt?
5:09 Louis Rossman just punched his desk into 2 after watching this. I personally loved the dishwasher
I was thinking the same exact thing!
Not even a nanopaul of flux. Such a disgusting practice of complete disrespect to that board. That's why those caps were near impossible to remove.
He was a supersonic washer...
@@xnagytibor You beat me to it, I was going to make a similar joke.
*Rossmann*
Good restoration thanks
Protip: If your solder smokes briefly and intensely like in 7:22, then your iron is too hot! It should hardly be smoking at all.
Protip 2: If your soldering iron does not have a temperature knob, you can use a lamp dimmer to regulate its power
Thank you. Holy shit
Protip 3: Never get your hot soldering iron into that crud of chemistry on the board but clean up the whole thing *before* making it hot and doing aggressive reactions of all kind! It were the chemicals on the board and contacts that did get the whole thing into smoke in that case.
Power regulation instead of temperature regulation is just plain dumb and useless. You can get a solid T12-style soldering station for 30 bucks on aliexpress...
bad caps are daily business on my instrument cluster repairs. 😎
a good temperature for this its 380 degeres .
"Pure liquid evil". Sounds like the day after Taco Bell
😲
Christian Ivarsson dude holy shit 🤣
I think I've seen hot sauce with similar wording on the label! "Pure Liquid Evil" :D
Why would you want to make us think of liquid feces coming out of Christian Ivarsson?
Coprophagia should be a private discussion, not a public one.
SUGAR FREE GUMMI BEARS
Solder Job aside, That's a really nice "PSA" about the importance of recapping old machines like these.
“I guarantee that someone will say this in the comments, ‘Youre doing it wrong’”
I have to say this.
You’re doing it wrong
@KeeDx3 Get two temperature controlled soldering irons. If you only have one, check out the TS100, it is pretty cheap and pretty good (but keep in mind that it requires 12-24V DC power; You can easily convert an old laptop PSU for that). Apply fresh solder to both capacitor pads. Set the irons to maybe ~370 degrees C, take one iron in each hand, and heat up both pads simultaneously. When the solder is melted, simply tilt the irons up in order to lift the cap off the board. This is a very effective and gentle way of removing SMD caps, or any other two pin SMD component, IMHO.
@KeeDx3 Look up Voultar on TH-cam, he does an excellent job showing the CORRECT technique which uses hot air and a soldering station. I did my old PC engine duo which has a crap ton of these caps and it now works flawlessly.
Here's mine:
1- Using a hot air SMT reflow workstation, it's easier to both unsolder old caps and resolder the new ones. I use a a Gordak 952 myself, but better / more suitable solder rework stations also exist. *[1]
3- Someone else already said it, but using more solder flux is always better and makes everything much easier! You can always remove the excess flux with some alcohol.
3- I'd say using a pair of precision tweezers instead of plyers is also a must.
If you're interested, watch Voultar's videos. He makes pretty awesome tutorials for doing work on retro hardware :)
However, I approve of The 8-bit Guys method of breaking the leads, it's a safe method and the only downside is the extra time it takes, and that soldering job might not turn out just as clean and professional. That doesn't really matter, as the final results definitely work well.
*[1] - (EDIT: as multiple people already said, it may not be a good idea to use hot air with corroded pads (like here) as you might risk breaking them apart. TBH, I have never worked on a PCB with "cap juice" on them before, and I just wanted to share my experience with you.
@@cruiser1333 The problem with the hot air method when the pads and caps are this corroded it is very very hard to get the suckers to melt. You end up doing more damage. I have recapped dozens of boards and when they are this corroded cutting them off, in my experience, has been far more successful.
damn, I get the same reply when I'm wiping my ass.
When soldering surface mount capacitors by hand, apply a SMALL amount of solder to one of the pcb pads. Hold the cap on the pads pressing down slightly and heat the pre-tinned pad to melt the solder, and seat the cap in place. Then solder the other lead. Finally, reflow the first lead with a bit of flux and you're done!
Well done! At 6:41 the big cap does look a bit blown up on the top, though...
He removes those capacitors the same way my dentist removes teeth: a little twisting, a little tugging, a little more cranking and pulling, and then... voila!
You should change your specialist asap.
Your dentist should get a hot air station and some flux.
Where did you find your dentist, a 19th century frontier town?
i have yet to see a dentist that desolders teeth
How many teeth do you need removed, cleetus?
Hi David,
Not an expert by I do rework some boards. Get some $5 Hakko SMD tweezers from Amazon, makes holding parts while you solder so much easier.
Also worth considering getting a cheap hot air rework station. That way you just heat up the part and the caps lift right off. You can then flux and solder the replacements way easier. I spent $250 on mine, but I've used $100 stations and they're fine for what you're doing.
Hot air is my choice for this kind of thing. Just have to be careful not to knock any of the other components out of place while doing it, but they're easy enough to put back if you do.
SMD tweezers are great when you do not want to heat the PCB with hot air!
@mickelilltroll77 Normally, yes. But these surface mount electrolytics are just horrid little things. You end up melting the plastic base with the tweezers more often than not. Hot air all the way. Busting them with pliers can stress the PCB and lift pads very easily. At least cut them with some side snips if you're going to go medieval on them. That still has a risk of stressing the pads, but not as much.
Michael Giacomelli Helping hands can help with smaller boards too.
0:29 - tea is ready! ☕️
perfect mate
Yes I now officially love you
Lovely, two sugars please : )
Beat me to the punch
Decaff?
0:32 Honey, the Mac is boiling again!!!
😂Good one😂
Lol
TDK power supplies all go eventually tick-tock (literally!) when the secondary filter caps leak. I repaired about 30 of them, don't ask why. All of them needed just the capacitors, and I even started to recap them on sight even those which were still working.
You did it almost 100% right, only concern would be that you missed two capacitors near the RAM slots. Also the corrosion around the legs of the small chips and the audio IC (the big chip in the left corner) is still present. I usually did a bulk recap of about 10 boards and put them all in dishwasher 2-3 cycles before soldering new capacitors.
For the capacitors, I used tantalum ones at first, but when my stock of them dried up, I switched to ceramic ones and polymer for the values I couldn't get ceramics. Much better in the long run and they will not leak again!
Few Mac systems that need recaps are: Mac SE/30, Mac II series, all Mac Classic series, PowerBook 100, PowerBook 100-140-160 LCD screens, PowerBook Power Bricks!, all LC and Performa series, all Quadras and all PowerMacs 6100, 7100, 7200, etc. PowerBook Duos, PowerBook Duo Docks, internal CD-ROM drives in Quadras and PowerMacs (especially those with external caddies), some internal floppy drives, and I am sure I missed a few. These are just the ones I remember fixing :) Yes, even the Power Macintosh models started to have capacitor issues :(
Tip: Please use Flux when you solder. It ensures a good solder joint and makes adhesion to the pads a lot easier.
A lot of solder has flux built-in
@@vinesthemonkey It does but it's still not as effective as adding more on the side. You can only fit that much flux inside the lead
The bigger the glob, the better the job.
Don't delay, flux those joints today!
Don't bother! you try and tell people who don't solder much to use the stuff and they never do, until months of crap joints hassle, then they get it!
he is using flux capacitors
I think you left the kettle on the stove again (the whistling noise from the speaker sounded like the kettle going off).
Or in TH-cam auto gen captions: [Applause] [Music]
Dang!
Wroooooong! You're doing it completely wrong!
*Pulls out Uno Reversal card* No U.
@@tails64dsntchannel8 Buying a new one isn't going to fix the old board, if he would have bought a new one there would still be a faulty board in existence. Plus, why wouldn't a guy like this repair a board like this?
brutal....
Just because he got lucky and it worked for him does not mean that it will work for everyone. I was shaking my head at every action he took in recapping this board. He got very lucky in deed. If it were a total failure, he would never have posted the video, send the board to repair and make it look like he fixed it.
@@tails64dsntchannel8 Don't delay, dishwash your motherboard today
I'm loving that AMD chip in an Apple computer.
Modern macs have Radeon graphic which I _think_ is owned by AMD
@@neyoid yes
Wont be long and they will be right back up in that shit too. its getting harder and harder for companies to dent the value.
When I opened up my LC that gave me a chuckle
I remember when you could use an AMD or an Intel chip on the same board.
I've done the dishwasher trick, especially on expensive keyboards. A tip: regular tap water contains minerals, which once dry can create shorts. Do a final rinse in a tub of distilled water before drying.
everybody:
8bitguy: I Bet You'll Argue About Which Way To Pull Caps Off A Board Is The Wrong Way
everybody:
everybody: use flux tho
you can even use horse piss if you want....you just cannot unsolder one lead and tilt the component like you do on through hole because you WILL lift a trace...breaking them with sideways rotational motion is safe, effective and recommended and you can use flux but you do the same job without it.this not reballing a gpu or anything like that. and yes i do electronics work on a daily basis mainly automotive ecu's . also if you spend too much time with the iron either dessoldering or soldering them you will break the bond between the trace and the board, if both parts are tinned and you have a steady hand, one second dwell time is more than enough on each leg
You mean like flux already present in the solder he's using? Flux core. Seriously people it's not that complicated.
@@animalyze7120 flux is important. see all the other comments.
There's allot of ways to pull corroded caps off s board without damaging it. But when it comes to flux there's only one way.......US FLUX! The flux in solder is good for one use then you start to get a cold solder joint. Once the solder can't flow you've got a shit joint. Simple as that.
@@animalyze7120 You need to be more educated then that. The flux in the solder is good for a single use and is only good for applications where you're dealing with two brand new surfaces. In this case you're dealing with a very old and corroded surface in which the cleaning properties in flux will not only clean the pads up further, but they'll allow the solder to flow to where it needs to go.
Next: „I’ve stuck my electric car into the dishwasher to clean it“ 👀
I changed the comment so you don’t know why I have all these likes
I tried not to, but I couldn't resist
I ran to my computer when I saw the notification on my phone.
Yep
I pressed like before I pressed Play
I was there too :)
I worked in a PCB factory for about 2 years, and replacing SMDs was part of my job. The correct way to install a surface-mount electrolytic capacitor (as well as other types of SMDs) is to add a little solder to one of the pads, which you'll use to tack the capacitor in place. Then solder the leg that isn't tacked down, which will give you a proper solder joint on that leg, then reflow the solder on the tacked-down leg, which will give you a proper solder joint on that leg too.
A small, angled, conical tip is ideal for installing SMDs. At work we used Metcal STSS and MX-500 solder stations with STTC-126 tip cartridges (I have the same setup at home too), along with 0.015" diameter Alpha Metals SMT Core Cleanline Plus 63/37 solder (P1 flux percentage) for tiny SMTs, and 0.020" diameter for through-hole components.
Aren't you afraid some chemical residue gets stuck inside your dishwasher, and later contaminate your dishes?
I know it's safe to wash a motherboard in the dishwasher....
but it still FEELS wrong.
right. it took me 3 days to make that decission with my A2000 board. It worked well, looked like new. But I didnt use a tab and no heating/drying phase in the dishwasher. After that, water was displaced by alcohol (isopropanol), evaporates fast.
Safe? You seem to be a lucky guy, as sometimes it indeed can go horrible wrong. Dishwashers and water especially with cleaning tabs are a big no-no for cleaning of boards like everything treating electronics directly with water. Components are not hermetically sealed, water can creep below components and eating away modern BGA soldering balls/ contacts, it even can creep into the components itself eating away the pins, in some rare cases it can even get it's way up to the Dye itself! So, if you use a dishwasher, do it on your own risk!
Nobody :
TEa p0tS 🅱️ liKE : 0:30
you can't use 🅱️ to mean "be", that's illegal. expect a visit from the meme police any second now.
@@sofia.eris.bauhaus Hello? 9 1 1?
thats why we live in America folks
@@santi308 Btw, I don't think a person would call and answer a dispatcher saying "hello? 911?" thats why when u call 911 they answer first.
Nice restore, for those surface mount capacitors what I would recommend getting is some ceramic tweezers. Don't cost too much and small enough not to get in the way and the heat doesn't shoot up them due to their nature.
Hey David I'm from Germany and I have a *super* rare Yamaha dsr 2000 keyboard which needs to get refurbished so if you want to have it I would send it to you...
Great result, David!
I can confirm that the twisting cap method is effective.
Also, I have washed many boards in a dishwasher with no adverse effects.
I do remove the RAM and socketed chips to be safe.
And dishwasher detergent is an effective method of cleaning ‘Cap Juice’ from boards.
After the dishwashe, be sure to flush the boards with isopropyl alcohol and then deionised water to rinse any debris from the board.
Airdusters are good to blow water from under chips and chip carriers. Compressor air is not a good source as it can contain moisture and unless it is properly earthed, may be damaged with ions in the compressor air.
In work we place boards to be dried in an oven at 50° C for up to thirty minutes to drive out any moisture.
YoU ArE ReMoVIng THe CaPaciTors WroNg :/
Hot air gun is the best.
This video was brought to you by PRAM batteries
Made in Israel, patents pending, all rights reserved, some restrictions apply.
go home linus :)
:)
I didn't even know they made anything other than propaganda! Crazy, I tell you!
@@RetroMMAwhat! Crazy!
Louis Rossmann react to 8-bit guys way to clean motherboards.
Nah. It's more than good enough :P You can even scrub them down with a dish-brush in the sink if you want. Just make d*mn sure it's dry before powering it on again lol
@@Chriva It's not more than good enough. Do you understand the additives in dishwashers and the temperature they can reach?
@@TUUK2006 Google temperatures in a dish washer and you will edit your comment. Additives? What are they? I have done that dozens times as well as many people here with no problem at all. Try before you comment.
@@TUUK2006 yeah, the problem is SALT. Which you literally have to put in your dishwasher. You have to wash the board with distilled water afterwards, otherwise god knows how much is the leftover salt going to corrode the board later on
@@neoqueto Agreed, salt could be a problem.
Dude. Get a reflow station.
00:29 what seems to be the problem?
"Well, my Mac screams on start."
I think a large ultrasonic tank would probably the most delicate way to clean boards. Distilled water, maybe with a bit of alcohol. But the usual ultrasonic cleaners are for small objects, like glasses. The dishwasher seems fine, but I guess you have to keep an eye on the temperature.
I have found in the past that ultrasonic cleaning can damage crystal oscillators, so I'm wary of what I put in them.
Oh, ok. This is news to me. I saw that Louis Rossmann puts all boards into a cleaner after a repair. But maybe vintage oscillators can break. However they should be something that can be more easily replaced. But it’s worrying.
90's SMD caps, our poor poor machines. I would have washed before desolder - those fumes...
Dishwasher is great, careful with any labels you want to keep intact.
Computer Speaker: *SSSSCCCCRRRREEEECCCHHHH*
Auto Gen Subtitles: [Applause] [Music]
Whatever sound is played and auto-captioning is rubbish and unable to identify what the hell it suppose to mean it just shouts this instead. I mean this could be "music", dubstep or industrial aggrotech or other bonkers garbage noise.
3:39 You should really use liquid flux and add fresh solder.
7:33 If you plan to do more SMD rework, you should get a hot air station. It makes soldering and removing SMD parts way easier.
He already has a decent station, so I think a separate hot air station is more than enough
Wrong. On both counts.
@ Care to explain why?
@@slap_my_hand it's sort of 50/50 on the snapping leads vs hot air for removal, if the pads are in bad shape, sometimes the solder is holding everything together, of course since he didn't use flux or a well tinned tip it didn't make any difference anyways. Lots of flux and a hot air station (or hot tip tweezers) would have been the best way to remove the caps
0:26
....
Someone's boiling water for instant coffee! :)
Brings a whole new meaning to, cleaning your computer.
Guess these corrosive fluids in these capacitor make thse boards need cleaning.
Techmoan: people will say I need to replace the caps in that. But I don’t need too
8 bit guy: I do need to replace the caps in that
Both are correct! Depends upon the caps themselves, their age, phase of the moon...
Seriously, with different manufacturers and different production dates, it's hard to make a blanket statement. Don't forget to get quality replacements, or you'll be back in there replacing them again.
Also, check out MikesRadioRepair TH-cam channel. He talks about some adhesive that turns corrosive over time as it soaks up moisture from the air. It has a similar effect to the leaking electrolyte.
Recapping really never hurts when refurbishing electronics. For power supplies it makes them far less likely to kill boards, and for things like CRT monitors it can actually make the geometry a lot more consistent as well as fixing color issues. If it’s something you care about that you’d like to stick around for a while recapping it will cut out the most common point of failure on a large amount of tech.
@@Evildandalo Except sometimes you see really bad recap jobs where borderline unsuitable and suspicious caps have been used. Also when you install a new part, even if you don't use low-quality parts, sometimes you still can't be quite sure whether it's not a dud and whether it won't give up a short while later due to a latent defect, even if it reads fine at first sight. If they are through-hole, you lift up a leg, connect it to an LCR which measures ESR and leakage, and if it looks only slightly worse than a capacitor that is fresh out of the factory or exactly the same as one that spent just a couple years in storage, often the Nichicon caps you'll see in a C64 for example, well... if it has degraded this little in 30 years prior, it should be good to go for another 30, i see it as a lower risk just putting it straight back in.
Also there's always a bit of a risk of damaging the board. I think it's best to ask around what the repair community consensus is, whether there are known issues with a particular product family or batch, and if there is a good possibility that there is, replace right away, otherwise, don't fix what isn't broken. Sometimes capacitors last less than 4 years, sometimes they are still perfect after 40, and it's dependent both on the capacitor, on the operating environment such as whether there are heat sources nearby, and on the circuit.
1. For god's sake USE FLUX (f/ex. rosin gel), then do ANY [de-]soldering works (flux inside solder tube is not enough). That makes soldering reliable and even much comfortable and faster.
2. Alcohol does not dissolve inorganic substances (i.e. electrolyte). Brush them with water (distilled or tap one) or other inorganic solvents. (AFAIK, the best is finish with water (remove solvents and detergents), distilled water (remove remaining inorganics), (iso-)propanol/alcohol (to remove remaining organics and water)).
3. Electrolyte could remain under ICs.
Definitely do NOT use the pliers method for anything valuable. The risk of losing a trace is real, and you have to remove the snapped leads anyway. Hot air is the way to go. It's quicker and safer.
everybody: USE MOR FLUX!
me: lol, cat juice
I've been dishwashing electronic components an electronics for 30 years.
How long do you usually let them dry for? any special tricks?
Louis Rossman recommends 2 parts flux to 1 part PCB. It works every time.
The Right Amount of Flux
I thought he uses 1 tube of flux to 1 cap.
gotta have a happy little flux application
@@scottlloyd9762 that's a picoPaul of Flux
Ya boi 8-Bit Guy is about to hit 1 million Subs 😎 anyone remember when Dave used to be the Airsoft Guy? 😅
ME
No, i had no idea.
You are doing it wrong!!!
You always fill your dish washer before running. Lol
I used to be a body piercer , you should pick up some hemostats if you can find them! Can get them in quite a few different sizes to find the best fit for your hand, and at different lengths. They'd be perfect for those tiny pieces, i used them all the time for helping me screw on the threaded ends of jewelry in hard to reach ear piercings. I have big hands so that was always a pain spot for me lol love the videos man!
I've got an LC II myself. It's been in storage for a while though. Didn't know these were so prone to leaky caps. Good to know! I'll have to check out mine when I get it out of storage. I know mine had the problem of "endless reboot". It would randomly reboot itself whenever it wanted and sometimes just get stuck on the gray reboot screen while replaying the Mac boot tone over and over. Still never found out what was causing that. Possibly HD as it's the original. That HD emulator looks like something I'd be interested in for mine. Great video as always David!
Great video, I'm going to stick my MacBook in the dishwasher now, hopefully, it will remove the ketchup in between the keys.
Don't stick mechanical devices, lcd / oled panels or anything that still has power in water. I know you're joking but but not everyone will
It's such a horrible thought that people would actually do that :/
@@SimonWoodburyForget Its set on 120F so it should be fine.
@@DRSDavidSoft Still better than putting a phone in a microwave oven and turning it on. Yep, that did actually happen.
The original video I remember uxwbill doing a while back th-cam.com/video/ahhSDEgkqQ8/w-d-xo.html
I would not want to use that dishwasher to clean food plates afterwards. Just saying.
I'd just run the dishwasher empty after that lol..
Holy moly, 950 k subscribers! I subscribed before you hit 200 k. Wow does time fly. Congratulations!
Paaa...you are one of these late joiners... :)
I subbed when he was at 122k.
Nice Video here 8-Bit Guy. I've ordered some SMD capacitors for my LCII from console5 Going to look into restoring it, I already retrobrited my LCII back in 2015, even 6 years later it's still nice and white. :). Will do the same for my Colour Classic too.
Just wondering.... how does putting the motherboard through the dishwasher not destroy the motherboard!?
If there is no power running trough it, it cant short out.
I've washed many electronic parts in the sink (I don't have a dishwasher) with no problems. As long as there's no current going through the board (hence the battery removal) then you're good. Remove all excess water then leave to dry in a warm/dry area, preferably in a way that will let any extra water roll off as opposed to sit in place and corrode.
Soldering SMD is a lot easier when you use the correct tools.
And if you do it right.
@The 8-Bit Guy :
Put flux on the PCB (and the cap if you will)
Put solder only on one pad of the PCB
Gently maintain the solder barely melt on the PCB while placing the cap with a set of tweezers
When in place, remove the solder iron from the pad. The cap should be soldered in the correct spot.
Now, solder the other pad, without stress.
When done, you can reflow (remelt) your first solder to release tension.
Sounds hard, but it's awfully simple in fact.
It's really painful to see removing caps like that, and "Nobody can agree on how to remove SMD capacitors" it's golden, flux and a desoldering station is the way to do it, you have access to so many clever people with background in electronics, like the guy you took the 128 motherboard to repair, why don't you ask that guy on how to do it?. Look for "voultar" videos on YT, he shows pretty extensively how to properly do that kind of tasks.
Voultar doesn't use enough flux, but he does have an awesome wiggle. -Louis Rossmann
*Speaker screeches* TH-cam captions: *applause music* lol
I regret selling my very good condition LC II in 2010. Some Craigslist hawk in Portland, OR got a great deal, I just needed money to move! He probably got my mom's work documents from 1991.
I think it was running Mac OS 7.0.1, had the Apple II card, we upgraded it to 10mb RAM and I even got an external 12X CD-ROM for it. Eventually it got replaced with a Performa 636CD and a Power Mac 6115CD. Oh... 90's Apple...
Bashes head into key board....HE DIDN'T TAKE THE ROM CHIPS OFF THE BOARD! THE ROM CHIPS ARE PERMIABLE TO WATER! See those teeth exiting from the chips? theres a space the size of a human hair surrounding them, which means water, chlorine and salt have now made their way inside them! Also you notice how all the black plastics after the wash now have a dull greying to their surfaces? yeah thats because they have been heat oxidized, meaning that chlorine has oxidized them and the salt in the dishwashing pod has stripped them of their color, and now that the whole board is covered in a thin layer of salt, in a few months any exposed copper, tin, zinc or alluminum will corrode and begin destroying the connected components like the pins in all the connector ports, and the steel cases of the board clocks! Also fun fact. The coating of laqure like material sealing the board itself, yeah its permeable to chlorine and causes the traces to become exposed to oxygen.
The LCII was my family's very first computer. Played so much "cannons" and "brickles" on it...and a game called Vette. Good times.
Ah yes, Vette, you could run over a dozen pedestrians on the sidewalk, get pulled over by a cop, and say “but officer, I needed to find a bathroom… badly,” and he might just let you go.
It was either the LC II or LC III that our family had (a hand-me-down). Sky Shadow and MacSki were our games.
For me it was Escape Velocity, Marathon, and their sequels.
Next up: Cleaning my iPhone in the garbage disposal!
Where it belongs.
How you should get rid of your old hard drive >:3
TeckRax already did that one.
Proper place for them.
@@chongtak and all Apple products.
"The stuff that leaks out of those is like pure, liquid evil." 😂 Great video, man!
This is PAINFUL...watching him kill a motherboard slowly. People......NEVER PUT A BOARD IN THE F*CKING DISHWASHER! EVER! Yes you can rinse them off with DISTILLED WATER or iso alcohol, easily with almost no risk of damage. However chlorinated tap water, the high heat of the washer and the penetrating effect of "STEAM" along with the salts from cleaners in the washer will make their way into the microchips through the micro thin spaces where the pins exit the chips on the board and completely corrode them from within their black plastic shells. I tried this once on a dead board I had and let it sit for 6 months after, then pried a chip off the board cut it open and was greeted with a partially dissolved circuitry and ruted pins ends where they connected to the inner workings. 4 other chips showed the same kind of damage corrosion from the edge inward to center. These things aren't china... their sophisitcated circuitry that happen to be very robust due to the era they were made. Resisitent not impervious! Just don't do this! Distilled water rinse and iso alcohol only! if you have exceptionally sticky cap juice you can use baking soda and a tooth brush, added benefit of nutralizing the acid. And always immeadiately heat dry it after rinsing, with a blow dryer on high or heat gun.
Theory: The computer didn't have any problems but merely gained sentience and experienced the pain of living when it was turned on, causing it to scream in horror.
You're removing the capacitors wrong.
;)
But he is...
@@dennisp.2147 And if he did it your way, someone else would say he is doing it wrong. Figure it out, mate.
*TOTALLY* wrong
@@Zellonous No. They would be wrong. I've Got it figured, and 25 years worth of solder certifications to prove it.
I would have done it different too. But he got the job done. So who cares?
When pre-tinning small components I like to use some duct tape wrapped around itself sticky side out, then stuck to the working surface. If you want it tight wrap it around a small piece of cardboard. Works like a charm.
Great video! A very satisfying watch!
You should probably just buy a cheap rework station. An 858D is only about $50 and makes it a lot easier dealing with SMD stuff
Twisting the caps like that IS the safer method for cap removal, I do it regularly. HOWEVER! Before you remove the leads.... ALWAYS clean off the cap juice from the board BEFORE using the iron to remove the leads! Take a tooth brush, some 90% iso alcohol and scrub that board down then rinse it off with Distilled water and heat dry with a hair dryer on high. The reason you need to do this is very simple, the cap juice slows down the rate at which the solder will melt, however it also allows for the copper pads under the solderto heat up far to much and it can result in the pads delaminating from the board destroying it. This is a common mistake that even I once made in my early days, that resulted in the destruction a prized mac SE30 board that was otherwise pristine!
-Hey, you have new computer?
-No, its my brilliant dishwashing liquid!
- *consternation*
You did say but... you should de-cap properly, talk to retro man cave, he knows what hes doing when it comes to all that XD
This one was difficult to watch. I cant believe he breaks the caps off.
Никаках сожалений! Относись к ним как к предателям.
No regrets! Treat them like traitors.
You know, I know a lot of people do it this way and generally speaking it doesn't really damaged the traces so long as he twists them off, but I I have never felt comfortable doing it. LOL it feels wrong and dangerous to me. 😅 I've seen videos though of people I respect greatly doing it though, like mr. Carlson from mr. Carlson's lab. I honestly can't imagine that man ever doing something that could damage the device he was working on.
Yea, why not just use the friggin soldering iron..
That particular board is so thick that twisting the caps won't damage it, but doing that on a thinner one could definately cause it to crack and damage traces.
If you don't have the right tools (hot air station for SMD or desoldering station for through hole components) there aré safer ways :p (flush cutters, desoldering braid, etc).
0:40 your kettle has boiled
I am watching this video as I am preparing for recapping and installing FPU to my old LC II. Believe it or not dishwashers are not very common where I live, so I think I’ll have to scrub it a lot. I also bought some soldering flux to help me soldering the new capacitors.
great video, but i would still use more flux even if the solder you are using has a flux core
No
@@nznegativeions well that all depends on what your soldering new to old, old to old or new to new but the general i was taight over 20yrs ago was always use flux, no matter what and it has always worked for me from the military to civilian life
Dishwasher + stuff containing lead and other heavy metals = not so good.
"0:30 Tea is ready" :)
Noob here, but would it be possible for him to use the dishwashers drying function to avoid access water on the motherboard, or would that damage it more than repair it?
The dry feature on dishwashers can get very hot. I'd worry about warping to board.
I remember washing my keyboards in the dishwasher and everyone was telling me I was going to ruin them. as long as you lay them out to dry for a few days, they are good as new.
rather then vacuuming out all the lint and stuff, I would pull the drivers and power supply and do the same thing.
I have a dishwasher in my workshop,I've got 2 Mercedes mechatronic boards in there at the moment.they are situated in the base of the cars transmission and constantly immersed in hot transmission fluid,which can make repairs to an uncleaned board difficult and very smelly.I clean all manner of parts in it,electrical and mechanical parts, I just place a cup or two of traffic film remover in the washer as a detergent. As you mentioned if you dry stuff out properly you have no problems, compressed air at a good pressure is the best solution.
Vinegar to neutralise the leaking alkali from the capacitors, flux because you're not a caveman
No chemicals to "neutralise" them. Just rinse chemicals off the PCB/ components, so they can not continue to do the destructional work any more. You may not leave the chemicals on the PCB at all. Not even if "neutralized"! BTW: neutralizing is what flux would do on it's own automatically...
first get some flux and flux-cored solder. Get a different tip and some tweezers, see some videos and practice. These are not tiny at all, i can solder 0.5mm pitch and i am no pro
I don’t understand the youtube community’s aversion to isopropanol for cleaning and distilled water to wipe it off. It’s been standard practice for 3 decades. „Hurr durr I use soapwater, worked!“ yeah and then it corrodes.
I have done many stupid and hazardous things with electronics over the last 45 years. But I would *never ever* put those chemicals (that are in/on a pcb) in my dishwasher, especially not with children in the household.
Just some helpful advice to make soldering the SMT caps a little easier. A cheap set of tweezers works much better than pliers for holding them. Also, it's easier to tin only one pad first, then hold the cap in place while you "tack weld" just one leg first, then go back and fill in the second pad after its already held in place by one leg. This method also ensures the cap it flush with the board and not tilted or wonky.
Also, little gel flux helps alot too to get those solder joints nice and shiny! Just want to be sure to clean it after with some alcohol and brush.
They make no clean flux but I guess it doesn't hurt to clean it off.