Building a SPEED Hyperloop
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2023
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The problem with aerodynamics and just fluids in general is they don’t scale linearly like distance or speed do.
I was about to say just this. You can’t really scale down speed like that when the laws of physics you’re relying on don’t apply at supersonic airflows.
@@matthewferos yeah, the best way I have heard it described is that even if you scale the model the fluid's atoms and molecules stay the same size.
In a more mathematical way, a lot of the aerodynamic equations involve squares of velocity or similar and hence do not scale linearly, like the drag equation and can end up with scaled down models requiring a higher airspeed to accurately simulate the real model. Couple that with the scaling of surface areas and volumes and it complicates it even more. If you take a square and a half scale model of it the surface area decreases to a quarter.
So the scaling of aero and fluid dynamics effects are very complicated.
Just as an example with this the velocity is much lower and the surface area is much lower so the drag will be much lower. The only way to simulate a real train like this is to greatly increase the velocity.
as well as friction. it's minimal, but it is still these forces increase exponentially with scale.
Particularly the speed of sound. The drag increases significantly in the transonic region
@@conorstewart2214 Technically, squares and arbitrary powers are still linear algebra and it should be possible to work out a satisfactory though not exact scaling formula. What definitely isn't linear is what happens with transitions from laminar airflow to turbulent airflow to supersonic airflow around the whole thing. You'd need a different formula for each laminar-turbulent-supersonic flow transition between small and full scale models.
Tape the sides of the tube with tape, make a vacuum inside, break one of the sides, and you have a real supersonic train, not a scale model supersonic one. As in a pingpong balls cannon.
This here, foil disks are easy to perforate and you'll make that train a missle.
This is what I'd assumed he'd done from the thumbnail.
Won't go nearly as fast as a ping pong cannon as they really rely on a very lightweight projectile, but it'll still go fast!
Was dissapointed he didnt do this
Like the baseball ball cannon that Smarter Everyday made
@@MrTaz0079got the link or title name for that video?
I think its not gravity that centers the train wheels. Its the different diameters. If its not centered, the bigger diameter travels more, than the smaller. Its like self steering.
Exactly, that triggered me as well
yeah it's because the wheels are conical so it self-centers, plus it doesn't need a differential to steer
Fans of BlondieHacks, assemble!
Railfans in general. As a kid I had a book about trains and railroads and it had a whole section about the conical shape of wheels. I can't have been the only one.@@SuicideNeil
@@Zach476it has nothing to do with gravity or centripetal force, it's due to self steering because when the wheels are not centrally on the rails the come shape means the outside wheel has to travel faster, i.e. covering more distance, i.e. straightening the train.
You can't actually have a "scaled speed of sound" because aerodynamics works completely differently at transonic speeds, something you cannot simulate at a scale speed and it would definitely affect your top speed
Adittionally I think there is a limit to how fast you will ever be able to achieve with an air pressure driven vehicle like this due to choked flow, essentially once your vehicle in the tube reaches mach 1 the air flowing into the end of the pipe will not be able to flow in any faster to fill the void behind your vehicle and will create a drag force that limits your top speed to around mach 1, no matter how high a vacuum you can draw at the other side of the vehicle. This effect will only happen at actual mach numbers though as again mach effects do not scale
This is done in wind tunnels by changing pressure, I think? So the scaled model is in an atmosphere that matches the Reynolds Number of real air? Something like that...
Also the concept "scale speed" doesn't work because without changing the model at all, if I make a real train that's twice the size, my scale ratio goes from 40 to 1 all the way up to 80 to 1 for free, doubling my scale speed. The term is physically meaningless.
also at any rate making something small go 25km/h isnt really that impressive.
@@hoagy_ytfc Reynolds number is completely unrelated to the speed of sound, you're thinking of the Mach number. But you're partially right, you need to match both and to test transonic/supersonic scale models in wind tunnels you need to change both pressure and temperature in what are called cryogenic wind tunnels. Only the big names in aerospace can afford one.
If it's traveling in a vacuum then there are no aerodynamic forces at play other than friction of the air surrounding the vehicle and the tube, just pressures? If the aft section were under pressure the induced aerodynamic forces would be reduced? If both of those were balanced by vacuum and pressure what does aerodynamics influence other than the friction of the walls of the tube and the vehicle. I don't know, but had to ask. Airflow and pressure are different things.
I remember reading years ago that the ideal ratio of tube to vehicle diameter - for a hyperloop-style system - is 2:1 respectively, so the vehicle's maximum diameter is two thirds that of the inside of the tube. That'd probably improve things drastically from an efficiency standpoint (perhaps not speed though). Also, hyperloops don't tend to use the vacuum for propulsion; the lower air pressure is to minimise drag, whereas propulsion is provided by what is essentially a magnetic linear motor.
I love this project!
I claim first in on this comment from the jet engine Tesla fan
Awesome project! I'd love to see you build a circular track (with some kind of switch when the train passes the vacuum cleaner), and increase the carriage to ever greater speeds
That’s called a partical accelerator lol
If you have a project like this and there's a problem with it, you need to find the problem first, then, after you found the problem it should be easier to fix it.
For future reference, you could try printing the rail ties (or other parts of projects) using white filament, which absorbs much less heat than dark colors like black. Awesome project!!!
Use PET-G or ABS not PLA. "Glass transition temperature" is the specification of the material you'll want to consider.
And design a clip in tie bar that sets the correct spacing of the rail supports after positioning. If designed properly it would also clamp the tube tighter as well.
or he just inverts the clip...
I think air passing the seals are a good thing as long as it's not too much. They reduce friction between the piston and the tube
Ànd we are off to the comments, lets see what the "experts" think.
Cheers for pointing out that this is not a new idea (unlike _some_ people think)!
Surprisingly good results in the end, at least for a small scale. Large-ish scale in the vineyard reminded me of how roller coasters are built, with the main large tube in the middle and smaller rail tubes on it. This construction would certainly make building corners easy since you could sort of 'wrap' the rails around the main tube to bank, or tilt, the train.
This was fascinating! You must have an awful lot of fun working on these projects!
"Scale speed" is a strange concept. Scale momentum or scale kinetic energy might make slightly better comparisons, physically speaking, if they're scaled based on all the relevant factors. The use of a completely separate force generator (the vacuum cleaner) that can be independently scaled makes things harder to compare. Power efficiency goes completely out the window as a meaningful figure.
Maybe scale acceleration (or force), scaled by the surface area of the piston (and maybe its mass) would be the most appropriate comparison.
love your videos! You inspired me to get in to DIY, and i really look up to you! Keep up the great work!
Keep building amazing things!
I would suggest that instead of metal rails on top, that you use the tube itself as a monorail.
If the thruster tube was rectangular like a 2x3, and the train rides on the edge like a monorail,
the tube itself would be the track.
The wheel carriage would be an upside down U with
one vertical wheel at the top and one horizontal on each side.
I am wondering if the magnets were on the sides of the thruster, and raised a bit
that might give the train a bit of vertical lift
Or if you had wings on the train, the train could hydroplane above the track...
To measure train speed, just use 2 electric eyes..
1st one starts a counter and 2nd one stops the counter, and gives the result...
a 3rd eye at the end of the track could apply the breaks....
Awesome work, James! Really well done! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
If you just intend going in a straight line, use aluminium angle ( L ) instead of flat rails to prevent spreading ( the shape of real train rails reduces sideways buckling )
Aluminium channel is WAY better, the width won't ever change😅
You could actually make it break the real speed of sound. Seal both ends of the tube with foil and create near perfect vaccum. The Pierce the end closets to the train causing air to rush in. In front of train their is no air to create resistance resulting in unrestricted acceleration. 😉
loved the vid!! keep going on man! very cool projects. inspiring.
That SolidWorks thing sounds cool!! Seriously first time I watched an ad on TH-cam and clicked the link. I used the full version back in the day as an engineer but moved to Inventor. Really wanted something like this for home use. Will check it out. :)
As for the spacing of the rails - next time print the bridge between the two rails solid and have the opening at the bottom. This way you have the flex on the side you don't care about
I just cut my toe nails and i calculated that if the clipping was an airplan it would have broken the sound barrier, a true feat of engineering
😂
Feet of engineering 😂😂😂😂Feet
The problem with using vacuum as a power source is that the vacuum does not produce the energy - the differential between vacuum and atmospheric pressure does. It's the +pressure of the atmosphere that produces energy. The energy between vaccum and 1 ATM vs. 1 ATM and 2 ATM is the same.
So... Using vacuum, all you can ever get is 1ATM of 'energy'. Using +pressure as an energy source, you can use 1 or 10 or 10,000 ATM for whatever amount of energy you want.
Creating some unique and interesting content. Thanks dude!
This is the only fully working Hyperloop you'll ever see, lol. Nice job though.
The use of something connected outside causes friction with the wind outside, or even the tire. Magnets or superconductors must be used
I look forward to your videos every month - well done.
I really love all your videos, they are great and I learned a lot from them 🥰
A potentially better way of measuring the speed would be to set up a few light gates with a microcontroller to measure the time between when they get triggered.
Yes, or:
1) Use and oscilloscope to see trigger times.
2) Film it at a known frame rate and see how far it goes per frame.
3) Shine a strobe light on it at night and see how far per flash
@@kensmith5694 with the two camera based methods you have to then find the distance, using light gates is easier as you just need to measure the distance in between.
You could use an oscilloscope but a microcontroller with a small display is more portable.
Nice start. If you want faster speeds inside the tube check out vacuum canons. Have a valve at the start point pull down your vacuum open valve and hear the supersonic crack.
A scaled up version of this is how they test impact dynamics. They use a frangible foil valve. When the vacuum/ pressure level gets high enough, the foil breaks and almost instantly allo3s air movement. Look up nasa experiment videos for that. Impressive energy release!
Great work! Cool project! Thanks!
Amazing! Your videos are very fun and entertaining! Keep it up!
Another great job! Always a lot of fun!
One of these cameras might be a great addition to your jet-engined RC car - let you really see where it's going and steer it better. If range is high enough and latency low enough.
Would you by chance know how to set one of those cameras up? The vid mentioned the drone cameras but how would one access the footage and connect it to a headset/phone?
@@gillanalafoginis6018, not personally, sorry
"Scale supersonic model" I dunno feels cheated. I expected you to shoot it at actual speeds not theoretic ones
Yeah same lol even my 1/10 scale rc car reaches well beyond scale supersonic
Fun project. Honestly had forgotten about the whole Hyperloop concept and whatnot.
Also perhaps consider printing your parts out of something other than PLA. Even PETG will do significantly better outdoors, or if you can build a toasty enclosure for your P1P just jump straight to ABS or ASA. Cheers!
Super bravo ! it's a perfect demonstration of the principe
Have you considered using felt seals for the piston? Just like those tube delivery things at drive-through banks?
I didn't think "scale speed" was a thing, because time is constant and it's not scaling with the size/distance, no?
If ,for example, 1 foot is shrunk down to 1 inch, then it would only have to go 5280 inches per hour to go 1 scale mile per hour.
@@benjaminmarks8765 except speed isnt based exactly on scale. speed of sound and a lot of other things dont go on a scale. if you made something 1mm wide and pushed it through the air with your hands, it still goes the speed you moved it with your hands, not scaling 1mm up to a car size.
Another awesome project\video! Thanks 🙂
Awesome....I am sure you thought of this but a bracket between each rail at a set distance will resolve your rail bowing issues. I also think dampeners at each rail attachment to the tube and to the stands would also help. Like a rubber ring on a hose clamp.
How 23 hours ago?
Bro, the vid was released 1 min ago
@@wheeff_ Patreon early access!
@@Project-Air oh ok
This has probably already been brought up...but there's some concern about the aluminum railings interfering with crucial magnetic fields. No doubt this has all been worked out. Carry on.
due to the close magnetic coupling, there'll be very little flux interaction with the rails
The coupling is beside the point. It's the moving of the magnetic field next to the plate aluminum that would induce a flux drag. @@kiwishamoo6494
Keep going don't stop there it looks good for future well done
Love the APT styling. I remember seeing the original when I was a boy.
To demonstrate something really clever, incorporate some S&C.
Imagine the size and power of a full scale vacuum fan . Would be incredible
I know you can convert all numbers just by scalling them up. here he pulls some few 100grams weight with a 1200w vaccum cleaner. one car of a train weights 40t. You need 100 MW power for one train car.
Thats means a middle scale nuclear powerstation for a whole train. Abd that for a few kilometers of track.
The idear is so stupid, i could come straight from elon musk.
This just seems like a railgun created for children 🤣😭
love your videos and the most special product have ever seen!!!
You need some linear rail as the rails. Might be expensive but they make some super thin/small rail.
@13:57 1365 km/h ????. you should write "scale speed" because it is very misleading .your footage shows that you almost ran 6 meters into 2~3 seconds, that will put you at 3m/s which is 11km/h (as scale)... 11*48 =530 km/h for real train.
Yes I'm confused too by these results, don't know how they get them.....
Elon Musk wishes he was this smart.
Proto profile pic on the top :3
Elon musk wishes he was smart, period
@@Rumplestiltzchenthat's why you comment on a video on a social media platform, while he owns one, right?
@@DMalek Get a load of this guy
Lol
Love the vids man!
Very cool! Keep up the great video content!
Love your videos. I am slightly confused about one thing though. I drag race 1/10 RC cars that go down a 1/10 scale quarter mile (132 ft @ 80-100mph in about 1.4 -1.7 sec. (Measured using very accurate lighting / timing system)
I was under the assumption speed doesn't scale very well..
just because the RC cars are one-tenth the size they are still going 80 to 100 mph. We don't say they are going 800 to 1,000 mph. I'm just curious what is the difference here?
Well you are absolutely correct, BUT if you jack the numbers up for no reason, it looks a lot better!
I have to say the idea of a scale speed is kinda crap. You may want to elaborate on the concept because of how much surface area and wind resistance plays a role a scale speed makes zero sense. Just doing the same speed at a smaller scale is already way easier.
Super cool, as always!
The part about how trains center the wheels on a track was really interesting! And great visuals as well 😍 Congrats on the speed as always!
Interesting, but unfortunately wrong. Google it.
Cool vid and cool project. To viewers, don't get it twisted tho, Elon's hyperloop is a scam that is not feasible and the scaling of small projects like this are waaaay more complicated and expensive than they might seem.
Absolutely, it's a terrible idea that's extremely dangerous and practically impossible to actually execute in any real world application!
But why? This concept is clearly the worst of every world. Disadvantages everywhere.
Also: “Scaled speed”? There is no such thing. It’s just a relatively small object going relatively fast.
man wtf you never fail to amaze me with your videos
You could also use smart magnets to keep the train off of the track while still connected to the piston
I like your videos and you are a very skilled creator but whats up with "scaled speed". I don't remember fly models and even your rc car running "scaled speed'. That mental gymnastics to hype things is annoying to say the least.
He has a reason, he’s making something that could be a realscs transportation option. Because of this he has it in scaled speed to show its potential as a full scale object.
Why is the most liked comment here 15 likes? Come on we can beat that in this comment!
3 likes! Great job…
No we can’t 😂
Lol
26
Bludington u r begging for likes lmao the most liked comment has 1K now
Great video, I wonder if you would get faster speed if you added a positive pressure behind whilst having the vacuum at the front effectively pushing and pulling at the same time.
In theory it should be more efficient transfering air from the front to the rear
just one thing about train wheels: that curve (conical shape) acts as a differential in turns. I have never met anyone talking about this
Pro tip: export STL models in solid works in with lower angle tolerance this increases the resolution of the curves sections of your print
The FPV view was great!
How do you get the "scale speed" result ?
I love your videos they teach me so much ♥️
Was just thinking about your 3D printed parts that hold the rails in place. Have you considered placing a hole at the top, to receive a nut and bolt? you could then adjust for rail spacing and potentially avoid variations due to changes in heat.
Try piping the exhaust of the vacuum to the other end of the tube to increase the pressure behind the carriage. That way its more efficient bc you are pressurizing the air behind the train while sucked out the air in front of it
So the problem of going transonic vs supersonic could be solved if the air was moving fast enough. The speed of sound is relative to the speed of the medium you're passing though, so increasing the medium speed could mean you could theoretically reach the actual speed of sound if you had a long enough track, a fast enough air pusher and puller, and enough guts to try! I'd start with a huge industrial air pump on either end, one pulling, one pushing!
It would be really interesting if you could calculate the power efficiency of the system and compare them to current railway systems.
Wow so excited to hear solidworks is now reasonably accessible
You could make hyperloop frictionless using more magnets
Well-done!
The connection point on the acrylic tubing should be flared, then 3d print a coupling have a smooth transition along the tire position on the piston, the seal outside of coupling will help push through the transition point.
The clicks mean the tube ends need a slight inner bevel and a 3D printed joint aligner to smooth the transitions. Really cool idea!
Could the magnets be mounted connected to springs to absorb some of the initial impact of moving?
Would it be advantageous to form the outside of the train to ride on a cushion of air at speed? Extending the 'seal' the total length of the car with a small tunnel underneath the bow to funnel lifting air
could you make a loop track where it keeps on going round and round, and if so how much speed will it get up to.
Q: at 6:56 you show where the undercarriage/piston snags when you move the top train, but the piston is the driving force tugging the top train along, so this should not have been a problem. as long as your suction does not make it a problem. just watched it through to the end, you`ll probably get a lot of suggestions, but if you make the rail holders connect at the top with either a cross-section or even make it snug around the pipe all the way (either greasing them on, or even use a little conical shape to get them on, i think your rails would be much more stable.. Fantastic project btw!!
Very Cool, as for the distorted rails. Maybe add a screw adjustment with a nut between the 2 top parts and set then all the same
This video is super awesome! I had no idea that there were actual vacuum train systems that had been built, but it definitely has me thinking of the Hyperloop concept in a new light.😊
What filament type did you print with?
Great project sir ❤❤❤
How much more speed could you get if you had enough vacuum hose to attach the exhaust to the starting end of your tube?
Such a fantastic project. Back in the early eighties I had a toy track setup that used air to move the vehicle through the tubes. I really enjoyed playing with it but it definitely had its issues. Even though I was only about 12 years old I was trying to improve it with some success.
Micronauts?
@@gregsteele806 i honestly wish I remembered 😂🤷🏼♂️
I would love a part 2
This is awesome that Solidworks are Sponsoring you ! Great project, Rekon you could build a doughnut track ?
Could you attach the exhaust of the vacuum to the other end of the tube so there is pressure pushing the train as well as the low pressure vacuum pulling? With a modified vacuum you could even use that to reverse the train
Could you use a skirt on the piston to improve the seal while not increasing the friction by too much?
Looked like there was a dip in the tube path in the first 1/3 of the track that was robbing you of some acceleration.
If you make another version, design a "flag" or circle that hangs off the side of the tube supports with a small hole in the middle. Then you can use a laser level projected through the holes to get shims under the track supports and make a perfectly straight/level tube.
Bro this is so cool but you have to revisit the rocket car please
Great video, and congratulations on 400k subs 👏🫡
very cool... when I was a bit younger I imagined this kind of thing to rapidly transport goods from place to place instead of trucking... I got the idea one day while sitting at the bank watching someone put documents etc., into one of those tubes and it shoots into the bank and came back later... good to see someone actually try it
There was a full scale pneumatic subway test line built in NYC in 1870. There's a world of difference between Hyperloop and pneumatic tubes though. What you saw at the bank is a pneumatic tube. The package is propelled by air pressure, like a bullet in a rifle. Hyperloop cars generally use magnetic propulsion. The tube is only there to reduce the air pressure and thus reduce air friction to allow higher speeds / greater efficiency.
Awesome video and a great example of scope creep lol.
Solid works!!!!
Henry Shop-vacs must be very excited to play such an important role in the future of hyperrail systems.
Would the magnates have a breaking reaction with the aluminum rails or are they to weak? Also what if instead of 3d printed fittings for the seal using something like thick brushing like what the tips of shop vacuums use? Maybe dipping them/ applying anti seize or graphite to counter their resistance on contact
Could you get it faster by applying higher than atmospheric pressure at the currently open end? Maybe a leaf blower?
on that first one, with the vacuum, you should hook up a lego car or something to that and do crash tests!
would it work if there was a pump in inside the piston creating a vaccum in one side and a positive pressure on the other sid of the piston ?
Congratulations. You've done more with just some easily accessible materials than most companies have managed to do with multi-billion dollar budgets and entire staffs of engineers.
To solve the uncoupling of magnets over the joints in the pipe....use 2 sets of magnets 1 set at the front of the carriage and 1 set at the back of the same carriage this way 1 set will always be coupled while passing over the joints. Keep up the great work pal great stuff!