Picture a beige paper lampion hanging in your room. Where did the design come from? China? Or Sweden? Like i used to think vogueing referred to Madonna before i learned of the ballroom scene. That is the danger of (uncredited!) cultural appropiation, and that is the danger of uncredited Maasai beadwork. I don't think getting inspired is a crime and i dislike the word Theft in this context (creates copyright headaches that ultimately benefit western megacorps with money to sue), but the cultural context gets lost if the designers introduce concepts without passing along the context and thus they have a special obligation to do so - credit is the bare minimum. This discussion is gaining new aspects currently with the development of AI technology by the way. I don't know the extent that it is used in fashion, but the art community is very divided, parts of them consider AI being trained on and reproducing their work withholding of credit & compensation and theft. One could compare this situation to western creatives finally learning what being on the receiving end of appropiation means.
I came across a post on Instagram where the account owner shared a photo of a chaise lounge and asked the audience whether they thought the design was Scandinavian or Cameroonian. Many of the comments, which were from Western Europeans, expressed surprise that the chaise was actually a traditional Cameroonian design. They didn't realize that many modernist designs draw inspiration from traditional objects from Africa, Oceania, and Native American cultures. These traditional designs were often labeled as "primitive" by Western observers, while the designs inspired by them were considered "modern" and even formed the basis of art movements like cubism and surrealism. I find it insidious how the Western use of the inspiration is seen as groundbreaking, interesting, and new, while the original creators are somehow seen as lacking in skill and thought, as if it's accidental good art, paraphrasing from Macron's comments about Africa from "people who don't contribute to the history of the world."
I've been waiting for you to cover this sir! And can you please share links to your dissertations/articles? Hope you expand this into a longer video essay.
I'm glad you're bringing attention to this subject. I would love it if you traced design origins, evolution and impacts. For example, pants as Mongolian (I think) conceived them, up to women's trousers. Headgear (hats, turbans, etc.) from Semitic peoples to everyone else. It could be a great book series too. Your work is very much appreciated. I tell all my friends.
Seconding this! That would be an invaluable educational resource that could undo some of the damage, as a layman without comprehensive knowledge of world fashion it's quite difficult to look up where a design originates without knowing what to google for.
Immediate thoughts fly to the Paisley pattern, named after the town in Scotland where they were cheaply mass produced after the British East India Company introduced them to Britain. Sad to think it (a month other things) killed the industry in Kashmir and put Paisley on the map. Also cashmere and pashminas. I think some girls on tik tok recently tried to make wearing a pashmina a Scandi thing 🤦🏽♀️
At the time Paul Poiret was around the world was incredibly vast and separate, and he was bringing things that people never imagined or saw to a Western audience. He wasn't copying, he was inspired. The clothes weren't exact replicas, they were given a twist, therefore they were his own. Even today, creativity spans the globe. When I see people in Asia or Africa wearing jeans or T-shirts are they copying and stealing from the West or when I hear a singer in another continent singing Western-style music is that theft? Also, There is a difference between a big fast fashion corporation stealing the designs of small designers and changing one or two things on purpose so they can't be sued, and when designers and artists are inspired by each other and take things and give them their own unique twist. If money wasnt involved, these corporations wouldnt be stealing the designs, because they dont care about the look or artistry, only the money. If money wasn't involved, designers and artists would still be inspired by each other and love each other for doing it. I never hear true artists and designers complain about mutual inspiration, only academics and journalists.
@@FashionRoadmanAs well as people who keep bringing up equivalencies such as this in these kind of conversations Seem to not question or try the understand the how and why those kinds of clothes started to be worn in countries in African and Asia. With the tip of the iceberg saying that the answer changes in the country alone
Agreed, I despise that almost all luxury fashion is white, and fashion history only seems to begin and end in France and Italy. It is the literal definition of “the winners write the history” 🤦🏾 😑
1. Fashion is Western centric, because fashion as an industry was created by the West. 2. Any designer of any race/culture should be allowed to be influenced by any other culture, but we should try our best to acknowledge what source the original influence came from. 4. Saying non Western designers can be influenced by Western culture and NOT have to acknowledge that, is IMO wrong. No double standards. ( an opinion in some of the comments ). 5. Fashion should be cross cultural influence and exchange with acknowledgments. Those left wing ideologues who say that's "cultural appropriation", but only directed at the West, I disagree. 6. When the non Western designers makes fashion that influences the world, then fashion will be less Western centric. Until that happens, don't complain.
Cultural appropriation is so disheartening. All those folks crediting Jackson Pollock and Picasso for innovation learned from African designs including body shapes. Caucas Mtn. designs re-labeled as Ikat and tribalism. I'm so tired of uncredited design theft.
Yes it is. I had to learn about other cultures on my own. When you see how Western fashion is influenced by other cultures, they should get credit for giving life to Western fashion. Westen fashion designers have historically participated in "vulture culture."
Curious what is being taught in the east regarding fashion history or in parts of Africa. Is it not like asking why there is not a history of nigerian car manufacturing and saying the car industry is western centric?
The west made fashion popular in the modern era, historically the biggest super powers create the tempo, think the Silk road, or islams influence on north african fashion. 200yrs from now it might be austraila, just kidding they ass
@@KriticalThinker137 Modern fashion is not te same as cultural dress. Yes tribes, dynasties and empires had their popular fits, but today fashions significance and what we mean by "fashion" is not the same as hell even the 19th century. I can't emphasis just how game changing the modern T-shirt industry has dominated fashion
@@ntsakomathebula4840 I hate to disagree but clothing has always spoken tomoney, power and socio-political status. In America, the t-shirt has evolved from underwear for the rich, to casual wear for the "working class" to the most effective socio-political communication device for all.
@@KriticalThinker137 Put it like this, today Bape is called Japanese fashion, yet the entire brand is American streetwear, the Logo is based of an American film Planet of the apes, the Shark hoodie is based off of american dog fighters planes, Bapestas are an AF1 spoof, yet without fail we call it a Japanese brand. There was a time that Japanese dudes where dressing based of bushido codes, today everyone wears "streetwear". yes there levels to fashion, not all Ralph Lauren Polos are made the same, but the way we speak about fashion is not the same as even 100yrs ago
I hope it was just a clickbait video and that you’re not racist. Why is there always an emphasis on the West, and why is it often criticized? Let's call things by their proper names; this is not Western-centric but development-centric. The majority of people who can afford luxury products live in developed countries. You also mention light skin color as ‘Eurocentric beauty standards.’ However, lighter skin isn't just a Eurocentric beauty standard; it's a preference that exists in many cultures around the world, including in Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. Historically, lighter skin has often been associated with higher social status, wealth, or beauty across different societies, not just in the West.
@@FashionRoadman "The Western-centric bias in fashion extends beyond clothing and accessories to notions of beauty. Eurocentric beauty standards-light skin, sharp features, and certain body types-are still disproportionately celebrated. These standards have a profound impact worldwide, often pressuring non-Western markets to conform to Western ideals in both fashion and beauty industries. The global market’s obsession with these ideals perpetuates systemic bias, limiting the recognition of beauty in its diverse, multicultural forms. "
We might be in disagreement that development-centric and Western-centric are mutually exclusive. Easy question- who owned the media? And what message did they send with such power? The west owned the finances and media ‘through development’ and used that to send Western-centric ideas. Not mutually exclusive Sir. Also, how far back do you want to go to the impact of Western involvement on other countries business especially in Africa? That concept of development-centric sounds like other parts of the world would not have been developed without the philanthropic ( mostly predatory) involvement of the west in our business. Anyway as an African, I will tell you this much, the preference for light-skinned people is a western-driven concept. It was a message passed down from our colonizers that light skin was better. We didn’t just wake up believing light-skin was better. It even exists today if I were to be honest, just not to the intensity as the past. Btw majority of light skin people emerged in these countries through western masters sleeping with their slaves. Just keep that in mind. This is a long topic to go deeper on but my point is while this might have been uncomfortable for you, judging it as racist isn’t accurate
@@IN-rd9oy It's good that African schools teach about the harms of colonialism, western centrism etc. but they should also teach you about critical thinking. >Who owned the media? Media owners. >And what message did they send with such power? The messages varied widely, depending on the media. >Anyway as an African, I will tell you this much, the preference for light-skinned people is a western-driven concept Okay, let's imagine you just said the truth and that western media spread that message (which is completely not true). In North Korea and China people haven't been influenced by evil-western-centric media propaganda, but they still consider lighter skin as a beauty standard, and it has been that way for ages.
Poiret did NOT copy Asian designers, ( because in his time, there was no such thing as a Asian designer, they did not exist, fashion designer is a Western creation ) What Poiret did was inspired by traditional Asian dress created by unknown Asian people. If non white designers want to be influential, create clothes that set trends, instead of fashion writers like Ayo complaining about it. And if you want non Western centric beauty ideals, then non westerners should first embrace their non Western beauty instead of wanting to look Western. And how come non Western designers can copy Western clothes ( I'm not complaining ) and nobody is complaining ? Ayo, you do a video about non Western fashion, excluding traditional costumes, tell us about non Western fashion designers, because other than the Japanese Miyake, Yohji, I can't think of any non Western designer that was original and didn't copy the West.
Unknown designer or unacknowledged and erased? Who will know Kendrick Lamar's name if certain people in charge of distribution do not want it peserved?
@@FashionRoadman As a non fashion expert, I said, they are the only ones I know. Perhaps you could tell us who are the other non Western designers who revolutionized fashion. I've only heard of Chanel, YSL, Armani, Christobel, Charles Frederick Worth. The 1st fashion designer, was a Western man, so I think fashion as an industry is built by Westerners. Traditional attire is not fashion, the sari, the chiton, the qipao, is not fashion, when its culturally specific, it only becomes fashion when it is adapted by other cultures IMO. Trousers invented by the Mongols is not fashion either, but it became fashion when Europeans adopted it. What people wore historically, has always been cross cultural adoption, even the Europeans were influenced by each other, and then Asia and Africa also adopted Western attire because of trade and colonization. Today we have the internet, so we can find out sometimes who really invented what and give them credit for that, so if non Western designers get their due, good. But again, most of fashion ( the modern concept, the economic industry ) is created by the West, so it is Euro centric. Nothing wrong with that, but in the future if the next fashion revolution comes from the East/South, then let history record that too. So for now, I accept the Western domination of the fashion industry, because they created it first.
@@KriticalThinker137 Who invented the Asian, Turkish, Middle Eastern traditional attire that influenced, Poirot ? Even the Asians and Middle Easterners themselves don't know. They were not "unknown" designers. Their own cultures forget them. I believe most traditional cultural clothes are an evolution over centuries with input from many unknown people of that country, we many never know who they are. Poirot or any designer, including non Western can be inspired by these traditional clothes, and create something NEW. That's what fashion is. Poirot didn't copy those looks, he adapted them and made fashion, not cultural costumes. Same goes for any designer ( including Westerners ) today who does that.
Picture a beige paper lampion hanging in your room. Where did the design come from?
China? Or Sweden?
Like i used to think vogueing referred to Madonna before i learned of the ballroom scene. That is the danger of (uncredited!) cultural appropiation, and that is the danger of uncredited Maasai beadwork. I don't think getting inspired is a crime and i dislike the word Theft in this context (creates copyright headaches that ultimately benefit western megacorps with money to sue), but the cultural context gets lost if the designers introduce concepts without passing along the context and thus they have a special obligation to do so - credit is the bare minimum.
This discussion is gaining new aspects currently with the development of AI technology by the way. I don't know the extent that it is used in fashion, but the art community is very divided, parts of them consider AI being trained on and reproducing their work withholding of credit & compensation and theft. One could compare this situation to western creatives finally learning what being on the receiving end of appropiation means.
I came across a post on Instagram where the account owner shared a photo of a chaise lounge and asked the audience whether they thought the design was Scandinavian or Cameroonian. Many of the comments, which were from Western Europeans, expressed surprise that the chaise was actually a traditional Cameroonian design. They didn't realize that many modernist designs draw inspiration from traditional objects from Africa, Oceania, and Native American cultures. These traditional designs were often labeled as "primitive" by Western observers, while the designs inspired by them were considered "modern" and even formed the basis of art movements like cubism and surrealism. I find it insidious how the Western use of the inspiration is seen as groundbreaking, interesting, and new, while the original creators are somehow seen as lacking in skill and thought, as if it's accidental good art, paraphrasing from Macron's comments about Africa from "people who don't contribute to the history of the world."
Even outside Europe most of fashion history learned is european focussed
Very true, during my fashion history, I learned all of the Eurocentric history, but little to none about the wonderful rest of the world!
I've been waiting for you to cover this sir! And can you please share links to your dissertations/articles? Hope you expand this into a longer video essay.
I'm glad you're bringing attention to this subject. I would love it if you traced design origins, evolution and impacts. For example, pants as Mongolian (I think) conceived them, up to women's trousers. Headgear (hats, turbans, etc.) from Semitic peoples to everyone else. It could be a great book series too. Your work is very much appreciated. I tell all my friends.
Seconding this! That would be an invaluable educational resource that could undo some of the damage, as a layman without comprehensive knowledge of world fashion it's quite difficult to look up where a design originates without knowing what to google for.
Immediate thoughts fly to the Paisley pattern, named after the town in Scotland where they were cheaply mass produced after the British East India Company introduced them to Britain. Sad to think it (a month other things) killed the industry in Kashmir and put Paisley on the map. Also cashmere and pashminas. I think some girls on tik tok recently tried to make wearing a pashmina a Scandi thing 🤦🏽♀️
Absolutely agree. Even within the fashion history that is taught in the U.S., it’s still not diverse.
At the time Paul Poiret was around the world was incredibly vast and separate, and he was bringing things that people never imagined or saw to a Western audience. He wasn't copying, he was inspired. The clothes weren't exact replicas, they were given a twist, therefore they were his own. Even today, creativity spans the globe. When I see people in Asia or Africa wearing jeans or T-shirts are they copying and stealing from the West or when I hear a singer in another continent singing Western-style music is that theft?
Also, There is a difference between a big fast fashion corporation stealing the designs of small designers and changing one or two things on purpose so they can't be sued, and when designers and artists are inspired by each other and take things and give them their own unique twist. If money wasnt involved, these corporations wouldnt be stealing the designs, because they dont care about the look or artistry, only the money. If money wasn't involved, designers and artists would still be inspired by each other and love each other for doing it. I never hear true artists and designers complain about mutual inspiration, only academics and journalists.
Wearing jeans and t shirts is extremely different to claiming the original design of them and being compensated financially for it
@@FashionRoadmanAs well as people who keep bringing up equivalencies such as this in these kind of conversations
Seem to not question or try the understand the how and why those kinds of clothes started to be worn in countries in African and Asia.
With the tip of the iceberg saying that the answer changes in the country alone
Oh, very interesting indeed! 🤔 But very much so.. I hope that you dive deeper into this - it’s so Important!
Completely agree! And this is not brought up enough, thank you for covering these issues
You hit the nail on the head Sir💯
we could do a 3 hour video on this topic alone! you should do a live on this topic at least :)
because when designers or styles from other cultures are used, high fashion companies risk getting accused of cultural appropriation.
Agreed, I despise that almost all luxury fashion is white, and fashion history only seems to begin and end in France and Italy.
It is the literal definition of “the winners write the history” 🤦🏾 😑
1. Fashion is Western centric, because fashion as an industry was created by the West.
2. Any designer of any race/culture should be allowed to be influenced by any other culture, but we should try our best to acknowledge what source the original influence came from.
4. Saying non Western designers can be influenced by Western culture and NOT have to acknowledge that, is IMO wrong. No double standards. ( an opinion in some of the comments ).
5. Fashion should be cross cultural influence and exchange with acknowledgments. Those left wing ideologues who say that's "cultural appropriation", but only directed at the West, I disagree.
6. When the non Western designers makes fashion that influences the world, then fashion will be less Western centric. Until that happens, don't complain.
Cultural appropriation is so disheartening. All those folks crediting Jackson Pollock and Picasso for innovation learned from African designs including body shapes. Caucas Mtn. designs re-labeled as Ikat and tribalism. I'm so tired of uncredited design theft.
Yes it is. I had to learn about other cultures on my own. When you see how Western fashion is influenced by other cultures, they should get credit for giving life to Western fashion. Westen fashion designers have historically participated in "vulture culture."
Probably
❤
THIS 🙏🏻
Curious what is being taught in the east regarding fashion history or in parts of Africa. Is it not like asking why there is not a history of nigerian car manufacturing and saying the car industry is western centric?
Same with art. Same with everything! Same with ancient civilizations. Egyptians couldve never built the pyramids it had to be aliens!!!
The west made fashion popular in the modern era, historically the biggest super powers create the tempo, think the Silk road, or islams influence on north african fashion. 200yrs from now it might be austraila, just kidding they ass
When was fashion not popular anywhere in the world?
@@KriticalThinker137 Modern fashion is not te same as cultural dress. Yes tribes, dynasties and empires had their popular fits, but today fashions significance and what we mean by "fashion" is not the same as hell even the 19th century. I can't emphasis just how game changing the modern T-shirt industry has dominated fashion
@@ntsakomathebula4840 I hate to disagree but clothing has always spoken tomoney, power and socio-political status. In America, the t-shirt has evolved from underwear for the rich, to casual wear for the "working class" to the most effective socio-political communication device for all.
@@KriticalThinker137 Put it like this, today Bape is called Japanese fashion, yet the entire brand is American streetwear, the Logo is based of an American film Planet of the apes, the Shark hoodie is based off of american dog fighters planes, Bapestas are an AF1 spoof, yet without fail we call it a Japanese brand. There was a time that Japanese dudes where dressing based of bushido codes, today everyone wears "streetwear". yes there levels to fashion, not all Ralph Lauren Polos are made the same, but the way we speak about fashion is not the same as even 100yrs ago
I hope it was just a clickbait video and that you’re not racist.
Why is there always an emphasis on the West, and why is it often criticized? Let's call things by their proper names; this is not Western-centric but development-centric. The majority of people who can afford luxury products live in developed countries.
You also mention light skin color as ‘Eurocentric beauty standards.’ However, lighter skin isn't just a Eurocentric beauty standard; it's a preference that exists in many cultures around the world, including in Asia, the Middle East, and Africa. Historically, lighter skin has often been associated with higher social status, wealth, or beauty across different societies, not just in the West.
When did I mention skin colour?
@@FashionRoadman "The Western-centric bias in fashion extends beyond clothing and accessories to notions of beauty. Eurocentric beauty standards-light skin, sharp features, and certain body types-are still disproportionately celebrated. These standards have a profound impact worldwide, often pressuring non-Western markets to conform to Western ideals in both fashion and beauty industries. The global market’s obsession with these ideals perpetuates systemic bias, limiting the recognition of beauty in its diverse, multicultural forms.
"
@@x7x9x666 ah you’re talking about the description - that’s an SEO write up by Chat GPT for SEO purposes
We might be in disagreement that development-centric and Western-centric are mutually exclusive. Easy question- who owned the media? And what message did they send with such power? The west owned the finances and media ‘through development’ and used that to send Western-centric ideas. Not mutually exclusive Sir.
Also, how far back do you want to go to the impact of Western involvement on other countries business especially in Africa? That concept of development-centric sounds like other parts of the world would not have been developed without the philanthropic ( mostly predatory) involvement of the west in our business. Anyway as an African, I will tell you this much, the preference for light-skinned people is a western-driven concept. It was a message passed down from our colonizers that light skin was better. We didn’t just wake up believing light-skin was better. It even exists today if I were to be honest, just not to the intensity as the past. Btw majority of light skin people emerged in these countries through western masters sleeping with their slaves. Just keep that in mind. This is a long topic to go deeper on but my point is while this might have been uncomfortable for you, judging it as racist isn’t accurate
@@IN-rd9oy It's good that African schools teach about the harms of colonialism, western centrism etc. but they should also teach you about critical thinking.
>Who owned the media?
Media owners.
>And what message did they send with such power?
The messages varied widely, depending on the media.
>Anyway as an African, I will tell you this much, the preference for light-skinned people is a western-driven concept
Okay, let's imagine you just said the truth and that western media spread that message (which is completely not true). In North Korea and China people haven't been influenced by evil-western-centric media propaganda, but they still consider lighter skin as a beauty standard, and it has been that way for ages.
Poiret did NOT copy Asian designers, ( because in his time, there was no such thing as a Asian designer, they did not exist, fashion designer is a Western creation ) What Poiret did was inspired by traditional Asian dress created by unknown Asian people. If non white designers want to be influential, create clothes that set trends, instead of fashion writers like Ayo complaining about it. And if you want non Western centric beauty ideals, then non westerners should first embrace their non Western beauty instead of wanting to look Western. And how come non Western designers can copy Western clothes ( I'm not complaining ) and nobody is complaining ? Ayo, you do a video about non Western fashion, excluding traditional costumes, tell us about non Western fashion designers, because other than the Japanese Miyake, Yohji, I can't think of any non Western designer that was original and didn't copy the West.
You think the only original non western fashion designers are Issey Miayke & Yohji??????
Unknown designer or unacknowledged and erased? Who will know Kendrick Lamar's name if certain people in charge of distribution do not want it peserved?
@@FashionRoadman As a non fashion expert, I said, they are the only ones I know. Perhaps you could tell us who are the other non Western designers who revolutionized fashion. I've only heard of Chanel, YSL, Armani, Christobel, Charles Frederick Worth. The 1st fashion designer, was a Western man, so I think fashion as an industry is built by Westerners. Traditional attire is not fashion, the sari, the chiton, the qipao, is not fashion, when its culturally specific, it only becomes fashion when it is adapted by other cultures IMO. Trousers invented by the Mongols is not fashion either, but it became fashion when Europeans adopted it. What people wore historically, has always been cross cultural adoption, even the Europeans were influenced by each other, and then Asia and Africa also adopted Western attire because of trade and colonization. Today we have the internet, so we can find out sometimes who really invented what and give them credit for that, so if non Western designers get their due, good. But again, most of fashion ( the modern concept, the economic industry ) is created by the West, so it is Euro centric. Nothing wrong with that, but in the future if the next fashion revolution comes from the East/South, then let history record that too. So for now, I accept the Western domination of the fashion industry, because they created it first.
@@KriticalThinker137 Who invented the Asian, Turkish, Middle Eastern traditional attire that influenced, Poirot ? Even the Asians and Middle Easterners themselves don't know. They were not "unknown" designers. Their own cultures forget them. I believe most traditional cultural clothes are an evolution over centuries with input from many unknown people of that country, we many never know who they are. Poirot or any designer, including non Western can be inspired by these traditional clothes, and create something NEW. That's what fashion is. Poirot didn't copy those looks, he adapted them and made fashion, not cultural costumes. Same goes for any designer ( including Westerners ) today who does that.
just THANK YOU. 🙏🙏
that's all 🩵