Xalanyn Are Reclaimers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- In this episode: We discuss a massive discrepancy and break in logic that could indicate Humanity aren't meant to hold the Mantle, but the forerunners are doing all they can to protect us.
Fate of the Precursors:
• Fate Of The Precursors...
Primordials Horrific Secret:
• The Primordials Horrif...
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I saw this theory somewhere else but it makes the most sense.
So what that person said is that each precursor has chosen its own race for the mantle and each race is tested. So for example some chose forerunners, they were tested but failed. Humanity was chosen by the primordial and was doing good so that’s y the forerunners killed all the precursor as revenge. Another was chosen that being endless, and they were also doing good. So I’d say that both are reclaimers but are yet to have the final test.
Im really surprised Installation00 never mentioned this because its a big piece of evidence for the Xalanyn are Reclaimers theory: In the Harbingers VERY FIRST scene, she says to Master Chief "The Endless will be found. They will Ascend." The term "Ascend" is ONLY ever been used in 343 Halo games to reference claiming the mantle of responsibility!
That sounds like a possible theory but there's only one question left if the theory is true... Why were the Forerunners tested and deemed a failure before Humanity and the Endless were even tested?
It doesn't make much sense that the Precursors would test the Forerunners first, deem them unsuitable to hold the mantle "then" test Humanity and the Endless at the same time after unless the Forerunners were suppost to be like a trail run for the test or something and the Forerunners really had no chance to hold the mantle in the first place.
This makes sense. I was thinking that both Humanity and the Endless are Reclaimers.
Humanity or Xalanyn didn't even have to be "doing good", the mere existence of other races that are tested as inheritors of the Mantle would enrage the Forerunners; especially those with similar personality as the Didact. Their religious faith in the Mantle as their birthright would make them feel betrayed no matter if the other races really have any chance to claim the Mantle.
@@b.rangerreaper907 Because the Forerunner reaction to be told they failed may have been the actual test.
"The Endless will be found, they will Ascend."
"Humanity was the culmination of their final plan...plans change. We are returning."
"The Galaxy itself will pay for your transgressions!"
It makes me think, do they mean they (the galaxy) will pay for your transgressions as if you’ve fed them lies and they’re unknowingly paying for it or do they mean they will quite literally make the galaxy pay/hurt because of their transgressions? If it’s the latter are they really still worthy of the mantle?
@@kevinprzy4539 Personally I think the Endless are hypocrites. The Harbinger keeps whining about how unjustly they were treated and how they were oppressed and mistreated, yet she doesnt care when Thousands of Humans are killed and tortured by the Banished. The Endless care about themselves only, and their control of the Mantle of Responsibility would be very bad.
You gave me chills down my back. Chief is gonna need the Didact's help. Because humanity is on their last leg. Chief needs an army. The Didact can assist with that especially knowing his species's darkest secret have returned. Didact becomes good guy with a truce. Just like Halo 3 He back stabs Chief like the Flood. Boom Halo 3 2.0
Wasnt the Didact killed at the composer manufacturing plant?
Or no backstabbing
@@superspike1 I would be very happy if they ignored those comics.
@@superspike1 it looked like he died in halo 4 but he survived. I don’t exactly remember how and what all happen but he killed Spartan team black (I think) after the end of halo 4 and was then killed by chief sometime after in a book. I could be wrong about what happen after halo 4 but he did survive. Hiddenexperia has a video on it and I’m sure that installation00 does too
@@superspike1 He was composed in Escalation (Even though he was immune)
The Forerunners chose Humans as reclaimers because the knowledge of the forerunner precursor war was long lost and forgotten. Remember they though the Precursors passed away peacefully.
Remember that when we talk about the forerunners wiping out the precursors and the forerunners declaring humanity their reclaimers these events are hundreds of thousands of years apart and the forerunner sentiments could have changed a lot since then, so maybe it does add up after all
Forerunner-Flood war happened just a little while after Forerunner-Human wars that resulted in humanity being banished and devolved, so I'm kinda in doubt.
@@rigen97 The librarian seems to have been the most involved in that decision, and she favored humanity to some extent.
@@chrishakala528 that is true
It could be that the precursors choosing humanity as the holder of the mantel would be the end of their species (they would get destroyed by the precursors for not being needed anymore or at least they feared that) while them choosing humanity could be just them ruling indirectly by controlling the humans. Or maybe the forerunners are just really petty and want to choose for themselves even if they get what they want in both outcomes.
Weren’t the forerunners tested and failed millions of years in the past? Humans were chosen as successor.
They wiped out the precursors, millions of years passed
humanity found the dust, flood, encroached on forerunner space. Devolved as punishment. Flood attacks forerunners. 100,000 years pass.
Present day.
The forerunners could have just accepted that humans were reclaimers.
One question I always had: why didn't the Forerunners re-seed their own species? Is it just because they felt guilty for having to wipe out all life in the galaxy, or did something actually prevent them from doing so?
This is a good question. I’ve wondered this for a long time as well.
Not sure where I heard it, but I remember someone mentioning one of the books alluded the forerunners being related in some way to the ancient humans, genetically/evolutionarily speaking.
It's more than just guilt. They went agaisnt all they beleived, all their civilisation was built upon, all their hopes and aspirations. They failed the Mantle and so, as a species, didn't see a purpose in their re-seeding.
I'd have to reread the last book of the Forerunner trilogy so don't quote me on that but, a few Forerunner lived past the halo activation and I remember a couple, I think it was in the Librarian crew, they didn't even want to conceive a child. Their race had to end for the atrocities they commited and as OO said in previous video, that was the ultimate revenge of the precursor.
@jack patton pretty sure they scraped that idea in h2 development
@@hiddendesire3076 I can't recall off hand who it was, but I remember seeing a lore/theory video about that. It might have been 00 for all I know. Anyway, the theory held that both the Forerunners and Humans were descended from a common ancestor (whoever it was used the term Progenitors). Our genetic similarity is why Forerunner tech recognizes us, etc.. Also suggested the Forerunner use of genetic modification to fit their rates/castes is part of what made them look as different as they do. Interesting theory.
This makes sense, though if humanity *is* meant to be Reclaimers, then Forerunners stepping aside could be seen as character development.
Thinking about it, I'm wondering if The Mantle is arguably the 'main villain' of the Halo series?
After all it has caused so much death and destruction, with the only positive I can think of being that it push the Forerunners to preserve life before firing Halo.....something they wouldn't have had to do if it wasn't for The Mantle.
Even in recent times, in game, Cortana's 'enforcement' of The Mantle lead to the events of Halo Infinite.
In many ways, it's a worthy macguffin created by an eldritch abomination.
Yep. Its basically "The Iron Throne" if it was created by the Old Gods, an inherently worthless thing many people fight and die over to dominate and control everyone else. 343 should lean into this theme if they want their Halo games to be remembered with a consistent overarching theme.
@@jakespacepiratee3740 I'd wager that "The Mantle" is the catalyst the Precursors came up with in order to produce the "sweetness" of life's struggles. The Precursors and the Flood are neurophysical beings, and if they're described to derive pleasure from the collective pain of intelligent beings, birthing species that are inherently jealous and giving them a spiritual throne to fight over would be a sure-fire way to produce that "sweetness."
I also don't think the Precursors were lying when they deemed the forerunners as unworthy of The Mantle. If the Mantle is meant to catalyze the production of neurophysical sweetness, then would it not make sense that the species that are most worthy would be the ones most capable and most willing to cause struggle? The Forerunners were unworthy of The Mantle because they sought to stabilize the galaxy and to preserve the functions that kept the Forerunners in power. Their ideals and technological feats brought about all-encompassing peace (whether forced or otherwise doesn't really matter), and their use of The Domain to preserve the consciousnesses of their people and their use of genetic imprinting to carry on the personalities of great Forerunners flew in the face of what the Precursors desired; that desire being volatility and change.
I think it could be argued that the Xalalyn might have been deemed as worthy of The Mantle in response to the Forerunner's creation of the Halo array. If the Forerunners were determined to maintain the stability of the galaxy in a way that would deal substantial harm to anything neurophysical (and therefore damage the Precursors' ability to experience the "sweetness"), then it would make sense that the Precursors would place the responsibility of causing struggle on the shoulders of a species able to circumvent the effects of the Halos' pulse.
As an aside, I think the concept of the "sweetness" of life's struggles is an interesting commentary on purpose of life, change, and how death and resolution play a part in that. Personally, it's interesting how the Precursors are set up to almost be the pinnacle of ultimate morality, since they are the only "species" to have "ascended" to the point of being able to feel the change of the galaxy as a whole and be the "parents" of species able to enact galactic change. The Precursors' morality also feels deeply and innately wrong, too, until you think about the stagnation of life and change that is caused by ensuring stability. It's an interesting dichotomy where either extreme is distinctly hellish but in very different ways.
@@Machtri343 so deidric prince molag-bal created the mantle so he could get that sweet halo indorphins
@@Machtri343 (spoiler for Doom/Eternal)
In some ways this reminds me of the recent Doom games, where the death/suffering of others was coaxed by the ‘Gods’ so they can feed off the energy this creates in an ‘unholy alliance’ with The Demons.
During the creation of my original post, I was hypothesising whether The Mantle was even some ‘joke’ The Precursors came up with to ‘toy’ with their creations that backfired, although further research seemed to show they believed it themselves. My reasoning behind this was that something like The Mantle sounds like something an entity trying to induce suffering would create and could (partially) explain Cortana’s megalomania, given her exposure to Gravemind and The Domain, both Precursor ‘constructs’ in some form.
It would also play into larger themes of Halo such as the use/abuse of ‘religion’ we saw with The Covenant from the Bungie era.
@@tech34756 I love this, there’s so many ways to interpret the story of halo and I love it all!
I still question if the Harbinger is related to the precursors. Similar mouth style, similar speech patterns, double voice, literally quotes the Gravemind. Maybe the precursors were working towards taking that form. The flood as we know were those whose “dust” were corrupted. But could the Harbinger’s species be the end goal of the precursors?
Precursors are known to have taken various forms and lived at different levels of technological progress just to experience it
I made a mention of this in a previous video of yours. That the Xalalyn and humanity were both to be tested for who would ultimately gain the Mantle Of Responsibility. What you said here gives more credence to that but there is one concept that might be inaccurate from what has been said by Halo Lore, that history is written by the victors. Without question the Forerunners went to war with the Precursors over failing to prove their worth as inheritors of the Mantle but just as the Primordial is capable of deception or misinformation, so to are the Forerunners. Their victory over the Precursors meant they could write history as to why they fought thr Precursors in the first place. Instead of humanity to be next in line as possible inheritors of the Mantle, the Xalalyn were chosen first. What gives this credit is that before Halo Infinite and even in Halo Lore no mention of either the Xalalyn or the term "The Endless" was really spoken. Even the Harbinger said how the Forerunners tried to erase their existence which would have been accomplished merely by the firing of the Halo Array but the Forerunners took extra measures. I agree that some of the extra steps taken by the Forerunners could be seen as circumventing the judgement of the Precursors to inherit the Mantle using humanity but here's where the worry starts in regards to The Mantle and can mark the return of the Precursors since not all were killed off by the Forerunners. Like how the Diadact returned and proclaimed that the Mantle was meant for Forerunners alone, a Precursor could return and deem all unworthy of the Mantle and erase everything. That connects with the war the Forerunners waged on the Precursors, that all were unworthy of inheriting the Mantle and they were setting things up to erase and start over anew. One little change of fact in the past, from it being truth but changed to point of view, and the possibilities get rather bleaker than they were from what Forerunner history records.
I think your missing the redemption mindset. The Forerunners either knew or didn't know they where being tested- whether they knew or didn't know doesn't truly matter.
The Forerunners felt entitled to the Mantle and took it by force, depriving Humanity of its chance to hold the Mantle. When everything fell apart, the learned the error of what they had done, both it killing the Precursors, but also in its treatment of Humanity.
The Librarian knew this and worked to help restore Humanity when the Forerunners realized they couldn't defeat the Flood. So they left behind all they had created to allow Humanity to advance to the technological level they would need to be at to administer the Mantle.
The Endless tracks bring so much mystery, the feeling of immemorial buried secrets, laments of pain and sorrow. Almost like like painfull events wiped out from collective memory but still haunting the place. A whisper waiting for vengeance, desguised in justice, that should stay buried for eternity. I love it, and this is fitting your video way to well !
Interesting video. But I failed to see it make any sense. If I understand the lore correcly, then the Xalanyn were unknown to the forerunners before they gave the mantle to the humans. I believe the lie they are talking about is simply that the forerunners were the true holders of the mantle. Also, I do not think that we will be able to find the answers in past lore. I am taking the fun of theory crafting out of this , but the Xalanyn is something that 343 pulled out of their behind to give us something new and fresh and they will most likely be retroactively ( I hope I am using that word correctly here )be changing the lore of halo to suit their new and interesting species.
The Endless exist because people didnt like the Created Faction, and they existed because people didnt like the Didact.
Agree exactly with this. They’re just trying their best to make the new story align with the old, so small oddities may exist.
As an og fan not sure how much I like the new stuff. Banished were cool, not sure they needed some other aliens controlling them (like prophets did to covenant).
@@jakespacepiratee3740 343 just sucks at writing while they throttle a beloved IP
I think you've highlighted a really common trope in literature as a whole. The Unreliable Narrator. The Halo Universe is full of them, telling different sides of the story through various perspectives that don't quite add up. It's not wise to take any of them as Gospel; not the Primordial, not the Harbinger, not even the Librarian or the Monitors.
What if the Harbingers Species, are "The Meddlers?" I can see some parallels.
I mean, the Xalanyn could very well be the real reclaimers, but this isn’t a good reason to deduce that. The Forerunner-Precursor War occurred millions of years prior to the firing of the array. The Librarian, who was ultimately in control by the end of the Forerunner-Flood War, hadn’t even been born yet. Not every member of a species thinks alike throughout the eons.
VERY cool and interesting video. That'd be something indeed. The Forerunners in truth helping Humanity in some form to combat the Flood, Xalanyn, and the Precursors.
We still don't know what these other "gifts" are that the Liberian gave to the Master Chief back in Halo 4 besides one of them being an immunity to the Composer. Maybe she and others foresaw the Endless and possibly the Precursors.
One thing that I think you overlooked is that the Precursors were wiped out long before humanity was devolved, there was almost certainly a massive shift it perspective and belief by that time. Any species that is not immortal will inevitably change greatly over time, especially after all we saw happen and all the deaths.
Woah woah woah where did he get “Xalanyn” from? I didn’t hear that when freeing an outpost or stanning over Chak Lok…
I find it odd though that the harbinger calls you reclaimer and refers to you as not an enemy. She never really alludes to the xalanyn being the reclaimers in my opinion
Yes she does allude to the Xalanyn being Reclaimers. She literally has the Reclaimer symbol on her Head, and one of the first lines she says to Chief is "The Endless will be found, they will Ascend."
@@jakespacepiratee3740 that doesn't necessarily mean they actually are. They very well could be calling themselves that just to spite the forerunners which is what I am thinking is the case. They are doing exactly what the forerunners did to the precursors and just stealing the mantle to spite them for perceived or actual wrongs to them. Taking humanity's chance for the mantle yet again. I mean she literally has the tone of wanting to ruin the forerunners' plan for humanity just to get some form of revenge since she can't hurt them physically
@@shadewolf0075 But the Mantle of Responsibility wasnt created by the Forerunners, it was created by the Precursors, so the idea of the Endless wanting the Mantle just fo make the now-extinct Forerunners upset is pretty silly. This would literally be the "old man yelling at a cloud" Meme.
The Forerunners lie is probably Humanity's legitimacy to claim the Mantle, when it reality it was meant to go to the Endless. In an audio log, the Harbinger says "Humanity was the culmination of their final plan. Plans change. We are returning."
@@jakespacepiratee3740 but forerunners didnt choose humans as reclaimers, it was precursors who did it 🤡🤡
@@TexMackerson “Plans change. We are returning” 💀
I actually hope this theory isn’t true
The introduction of the xalanyn is creating more questions than answers
I find that 343 prefers to introduce new lore/story in each game they release, rather than create a linear story line
But I do remember reading something about how it was the librarian that actually gave humanity the ability to access forerunner tech.
She essentially made us reclaimers of the mantle at the very end of the war when it became apparent that the halo array was the last option.
It wasn’t a grand decision by the forerunner ecumene
QUESTION though: Wasn't the Reclaimer symbol created by the Forerunners? So why would the harbinger be wearing the symbol? Did they Co-oped it? It could have been provided to the Endless by the Precursors and if it was then what other Precursor symbols and architecture have we seen and not known it?
No, reclaimer symbol didn't matched the writing style of forerunner language, it was taken from precursors
Because 343i doesn't know how to do retcons or create a compelling faction they just pulled out of their asses, aside from the Banished, but I digress.
Yo I hate that I dont know the track off memory but what song is the one that plays in the beggining it's beautiful
The intro or the very beginning
High Charity Suite, Halo 2 OST I think
@@handsomekeyes5419 very very start once the vid starts
It's: Halo Infinite OST - 44. Gareth Coker - Silent Auditorium. Skip to 2:20 in the song.
I think something big that's been missed here is, if I remember correctly, humans and forerunners were actually cooperatively living on the same planets before the Flood outbreak. Or at the very least they would have been trading, which would have been the perfect method for the Flood to begin infesting Forerunner worlds as well. It's very possible that before humanity suddenly and aggressively began burning planets to slow down the Flood, there was actually a certain level of peace and unity among the two. Thus, when they realized they were about to commit the greatest possible crime, they fell back on the only other species they ever trusted; us.
You also have to take into consideration the vastness of both the empires humanity at that time control 20000 systems so if the disease spread they would have kept it a secret from the foreunners so they wouldn't appear weak
Thin it like during cold war USSR try to appear strong but was crumbling from inside
Fact of the matter is, we won't find out until that dlc drops to continue the campaign.
I just find it farfetched that the Forerunners, leaders of the galaxy, had NO idea about these Xalanyn/Endless Until after the firing of the array.
Possibly due to the destruction of neural constructs left by the precursors to protect them during the halo firing.
@@superspike1 I hear that, but Forerunners catalogues and indexed the entire galaxy, living organisms also, in at seems wild that during indexing they never came across the Xanalyns.
@@rantradio not the entire galaxy, in the last forerunner book it says that the life shaper had run out of time and many samples could not be acquired due to this and because of already succumbing to the flood, also a vast majority of samples and specimens were held on the greater ark. Which was destroyed by the flood.
@@superspike1 oh Shit!!!
I'll retract my statement then... I actually forgot that the Librarian had said something similar.
It's my fault for holding the Forerunners in such high regard.
Cheers 👊🏿
I've always seen it as: the Precursors judged Forerunners as failures, selected Humanity as their replacement, and this ignited the Forerunner extermination of the Precursors. But there was a long period between the genocide and the firing of the Array. In that time, the rejection of the idea that Forerunners failed and Humanity were to hold the Mantle, and simultaneously the Forerunners grew wiser by studying the Domain and Living Time and from their war with the Flood - this snapped them out of their ignorance and made the Forerunners realize that they had failed. Therefore selecting them for indexing, imprinting them with geas, building the Portal on Erde-Tyrene, then activating the Array, with their last gift being a clean slate where humanity could begin to re-evolve.
The reclaimer symbol predates the discovery of the xalanyn, so it's more likely the xalanyn adopted it after the fact. They also were the only remaining sentient species, so they could have just claimed the title for themselves on virtue of being the only ones left. The truth being protected in this case would be that humanity will be the holders of the mantle, now challenged by an advanced species surviving the lighting of the rings.
100 years following the halo firing, there were still many forerunners in the galaxy that had survived on the lesser ark, hence you have the monitor saying she needs to bring this to the councils attention.
@@superspike1 I thought the council was the council of Moniters?
Bro it’s soooo simple and makes perfect sense! The forerunners chose humanity because they got ass slapped and realized they were wrong and took their L. Makes perfect sense it happens all over the real world every day
Yeah this was an L take from him to be honest. You could do something wrong, realise your wrong doing later on and want to make amends. Its not that complex 😂
@@TacticalxRecon yes I’m glad some real halo lore guys know what I’m talking about
Just because the Forerunners as a species didn't at first want Humanity to take the mantle doesn't mean the Librarian later didn't realize this was the only way and Forerunners made a mistake destroying the Precursors, so she worked to set it right and make Humans Reclaimers. It wasn't the Forerunners that made us Reclaimers. It was a single Forerunner, The Librarian, going against the historical wishes of her people and realizing they were wrong, Humanity must ascend and take the mantle one day. So she saved us and gave us Geas to do it.
Loved this! Picks at my brain regarding the game and story i grew up with. I feel so involved with this story and i love learning new perspectives so this is just. Amazing. Thank you 00.
I am still under the opinion, as I shared in The Primordial's Secret, that The mantle is a lie. An ideology the Precrusors didn't believe in but told to their food. The holder of the mantle is nothing more than a sheep dog to herd the other sheep, but in this scenario the sheep dog is also a sheep.
Chills.. freaking chills, i love your videos
Technically, the Forerunners where not meant to have the rights to the mantle of responsibility, the precursor had intended to pass the mantle of responsibility to Ancient humanity. Sure now, ancient humanity was ended by the forerunners genocide of ancient humanity, but they then made a simpler genetic variant of ancient humanity, the one we know as "humanity" (the one they made after stripping the DNA of ancient humanity of millions of years of evolutional advancing), so in theory, humanity could be spiritual hairs to the ancient humanity, but likely not still contenders for the mantle of responsibility as set by the precursors.
Thank you for another great video. It's always a pleasure to hear your narration again.
Personally I think the Forerunners being forced to hand over the Mantle to humanity even after ripping it from the Precursors makes perfect sense. It's very ironic in the most humiliating way possible to the Forerunners, and as such is exactly the sort of revenge the Precursors would've gone for.
The only thing I can’t shake is that The Harbinger called Chief reclaimer, if the endless were the original heirs then I feel she would never call him that.
Yeah I lean more towards the endless perhaps being precursor, it kinda fits the theme, they came first AND they’re endless?
After millions of years the modern forerunners may not have recognised them
That and her design somewhat matches the Precursor concept art in some ways.
You need to be getting more views, this was fascinating
what i find most convincing is that the gravemind refers to Master chief (humanity) as "child of my enemy" and not as the holder of the mantle or reclaimer.
Interesting. I like the idea that humans and the endless were both in line to be tested next. It could even be that the endless were tested first and passed. But the forerunners were the ones to chose humans as they could control them.
Entire video gives me the chills what an awesome video
My theory is that an ancient society was trying to find another dimension other than the end or the nether, in their experiments they determined that they'd need a more powerful heat source than the flint and steal used for the nether or the even more powerful eyes of ember(blaze)+lava to even get to another dimension. So they identified soul sand and lit it as their source since it burns even hotter than normal flame. But they needed a new material to contain all that additional heat so they found the most heat resistant material other than netherite and reinforced to make the new frame for their portal.
With all the peices put together to set up there new gateway to another world all they needed now was a unknown mechanism to light their new portal, and they did but once the gateway opened something terrible stepped out from this new twisted world. The warden, and with each person it killed skulk would being to spread an take over. The few who did escape observed how it hunted and the nature of the spread of skulk, desperate to fix their mistake they returned to the surface and harvested sheep wool on a scale never seen before. To try and seek their way back to shut off the portal. Which they were successful but at great cost.
To prevent anyone from making the same mistake they destroyed the mystery object used to light the portal to prevent anything else from escaping. But they couldn't destroy the portal itself do to its indestructible nature, along with the still lurking warden. So they abandoned the sight while leaving only the wool and a few of their tools they used to get around the warden and the skulk.
(This is all a theory of course but to me this makes the most sense, i believe sometime in the far future the devs will eventually give us the means to recover the lost relics used to light the portal initially so that us the player can go see the world that the warden comes from. The way i see it in short the ancients tried to take portal technology to the next level after the end was discovered, and ended up finding, and releasing something that should've never been disturbed, the ancient citys are a giant fossil of their tragedy and their effort to fix their mistakes)
Will some one PLEASE wake Mendicant Bias already! I've been waiting since 2004! Thats worse then dial-up...
Precursors chose Humanity to be the holders of the mantle
The Forrunners got mad and wiped out the Precursors
The Humans and Forrunners fought until the flood came
Forrunners did a lot of seriously effed up stuff fighting the flood
Forrunners felt guilty about all the war and subjugation and realised "Wait....are we the baddies?"
Forrunners changed their opinion of humanity and realised the galaxy would be better off in human hands rather than the forrunners screwing everything up again
It makes sense when you acknowledge that people and even civilizations are capable of realizing their mistakes. Germany is ashamed of WWII, Brittan is ashamed of hundreds of years of colonialism, the Forrunners are ashamed of millions of years of tyranny. Tends to happen when you conquer the known world because of a master-race complex.
It makes sense. It’s like the forerunners were like “here’s your toy that I stole from you. I’m done playing with it. It sucks anyways. And I broke it too. You can have it now. Dad wanted to give this to you anyways to begin with.” To humanity.
Or the Xalanyn found out about the mantel to tried to steel the mantel from ancient times...
Every one of these videos enriches the halo community and lore. It gives life in a way. Thanks for the your work, pal.
Bungies idea to make the Forerunners ancient Humans still makes more sense than what was added in the second trilogy.
“Trilogy”…
You mean three disconnected standalone stories?
There's also the whole, if the forerunners wiped out the Precursors, why did they not wipe out humanity at the same time? in halo forerunner book series it says that the ancient humans grew in technology and understanding immensely due to the forerunner war, in my understanding this would be due to capturing and reverse engineering forerunner tech and adapting it to their own, much like during the covenant war. so perhaps during the 10mill years following the precursor annihilation, humans weren't at the same level as the forerunners and were left alone because they were perceived as a lesser race and not a threat.
well this is semi true, except with the species that would later become the prophets of the covenant.
they actually managed to control & manipulate precursor technology, & built fortresses out of and on top of them.
it took the forerunners years to break charum hakor.
but now onto my theory, the precursors were not united in personality yes?
what if different precursors chose who the reclaimers would be?
the forerunners were tested first & they failed.
thus 2 other candidates were chosen to be tested, humanity succeeded, but were then devolved making their test inconclusive.
the endless were next in line to be tested, but we do not know the results of their test.
what we do know is that the ultimate final test has yet to begin, only time & the precursors themselves can say who will pass the test.
I think it's very likely that the Foreunners just didn't know who the Precursors chose as their replacement.
Both are reclaimers imo. The question is whose version of the Mantle is which one reclaiming? We know both the Forerunners and the Precursors had vastly different interpretations of the Mantle. Human's are the reclaimers of the Forerunners version, the endless the Precursors.
except humanity has kind of rejected the forerunner version themselves in the years between requiem & genesis, that's what kicked off the whole created conflict.
humanity might prefer the precursor version, make their own destiny.
It could be that somewhere along the line, I think there was a split among the forerunners. One wanted a species they could control and the other admitting to their own faults and misinterpretation of the mantle and their regret for killing the precursors may have decided now is the time to let the brother hold the mantle it should have held a long time ago. The librarian herself seeded something in humanity that ensured that it would reclaim its former glory or even perhaps surpass those of the Forerunners.
you are forgetting that forerunners as a whole did not think the humans were next at all for the mantle the reclaimer stuff comes from the librarian and the iso didact
I'd also like to think that the Forerunners chose humanity for an additional reason: the Precursers had still seen them as potential inheritors. Given the Librarians sentiment for humans (especially after their de-evolution) and the guilt she must have felt for the truth she learned about the Forerunners transgretions against the Precursers, it would make sense to have humans claim the Mantle when they were ready as a way of setting things right. On a darker note, what better revenge against the Precursers is there than taking the very species chosen to inherit their ideals and instead have them continue in the Forerunners' stead to continue the work that they were forced to leave behind. Until we get more information about the Xalanyn, that's currently where I stand
And all of this bs started when they turned the Forerunners from humans into an alien species. In the canon, that is.
That’s what happens when a new studio decides to test their creative chops.
I find it odd that if humanity isn't the future, and the Harbinger bears the mark of reclaimer, why does she still refer to Chief as a reclaimer?
Great mind opening video 00. Do you think Ephsu I (the former anchor planet of Zeta Halo) could be the home planet of The Endless?
Humanity and the endless will join together to complete the final test that'll come from outside our galaxy
I've just always thought about it as if a father(Precursor) was choosing who'd inherit the family business after him. He chose the younger brother(Humans) instead of the older brother(Forerunner). In the Elder Brother's rage he struck down his father, and put his brother in a coma(devolving humans) but in time they realised they fucked up the family business and that their father was right to choose their younger brother. So, they left the keys with their little brother and went away.
Don't know where the Xalanyn would fit into that, though.
I did enjoy your theory about the Xalanyn, however your video does miss significant details that is explained in the Forerunner Trilogy novals as well as in Halo Point of Light and many other Forerunner short stories, where it is explained that the Forerunners committed the genocide of the Precursors millions of years before the events of the Forerunner-Human war and forgotten to time as the Forerunners that took part in the genocied exiled themselves on the very planet that was the "last stand" of the Precursors due to their shame of what they had done, the Librarian found this particular planet in an exhabition to discover the truth of what the Didact disclosed with her from his discussion with the Primordial before he was exiled to a cryptum for disagreeing with the use of the Halo Array, before that point Forerunners believed the Precursors were mistical beings that passed on peacefully and appreciated the Precursor artifacts left behind, and here is what i believe, the very Humanity that was meant to inherit the Mantle was a long forgotten race from back when the genocide took place, the Ancient Hamanity that fought against the flood and shortly after by the Forerunners knew nothing about the Mantle of Responsibilty, going by all my research on the matter as it seemed that they were unintentionally invoking it while fighting against the Flood as the Librarian stated herself, however at the time the Forerunners only saw Humanity as a savage species killing planets that were unknowingly infected with the Flood, this was even shown in the Halo 4 terminals, The Librarian saw Humanity as her children after de-evolving them and putting into place her very own plan to have Humanity the holders of the mantle after the Forerunners fire the Array, she herself put into place the plan to make humans the reclaimers and so their technology would recognise them to intergrate the tech with their own. One thing that the Librarians essance told Rion Forge in Point of Light was that Forerunners and Humanity were genetic cousins from her experience of going to Path Kethona seing the descendants of the Forerunners that fought against the Precursors, she also said about the fact that unlike the Primordial, Precursors didn't share ideologies as the ones that died on Path Kethona celebrated joy instead of relishing in suffering, meaning there were good and bad Precursors once upon a time, one thing that the Xalanyn and Precursor/Primordial/Gravemind do share is the ability to interact, control and absorb electronic/data and AI, the Gravemind was able to do so in Human Weakness the short story that takes place during Cortanas interrogation between Halo 2&3 and Harbingers ability to aquire Dispondant Piers code and detect The Weapon within the Zeta Halo's systems
This stuff is cool, but truthfully, I have always thought Bungie’s original idea for the Forerunners was more that HUMANS were forerunners, and there’s lots of ways that would make sense, and it wouldn’t be nearly as complex a story to talk out… but I suspect I’m in the minority as far as people who subscribe to that vision. It is what it is :)
Edit: I will say, I like the theory that the Precursors aren’t actually as benevolent as we might have been told before now. If we’re gonna stick with 343’s vision of the Forerunners, I think that’s the plot twist I’d be down for. In general I hope to see all this stuff cleared up, it’s sorta confusing in the games.
It makes sense why the forerunners chose humans to inherit the mantle even though they tried so hard to take it away from them.
In short, its redemption. The forerunner story is filled with them realizing the sins caused by their pride and eventually the few remaining trying to make things right by trusting the mantle to the species that was meant to hold it.
Since the reclaimer symbol is made by the forerunners I doubt it was given to the endless by the precursors. Most likely the endless took the symbol to signify their claim to the Galaxy and to rally covenant factions who hate humanity to their side.
I think the xalanyn are the precursors' test for humanity.
I'd like to think that as well
That would make a lot of sense.
Wow your content sure has improved over the last year! Impressive.
Perhaps what the ancient Forerunners learned was true, they had been tested, found wanting, and humanity was next in line. But not next to inherit the mantle, simply next to be tested. And in between when the ancient Forerunners slew their makers and when the last, guilt ridden Forerunners left the galaxy, naming humanity their heirs the Precursors had decided that we too were wanting and chosen another.
Perhaps that is for the best, though, for the mantle has corrupted everyone we've yet seen hold it and I doubt we would fare better.
If the Forerunners truly believed they were genociding the precursors in their own self-defense, they might have still seen humanity as a potential heir, after themselves, & as you mentioned- controllable.
I do think the Harbinger has skull-shape & facial structure quite similar to the primordial, which had been heavily mutated over time; makes me wonder what it looked like prior to its incarceration.
The reason I like the original halo trilogy was that A) It showed us an advanced humanity. B) we discovered the Halos and discovered a lot of it was very similar to how we would build things. C) eventually we're told "You *are* forerunner." by 343gs and by that *end* it makes sense. We had existed before. We had encountered the flood, a malignant species from beyond our galaxy that would wash over and destroy everything in its path. To *survive* we destroyed ourselves yet planted the seeds for intelligent life to *rise* again and for us to "reclaim" our lost heritage. It means that we would have to come to the mirror and face what we were and what we did and decide *how* we were going to face that going forward. Would we take responsibility and try to *heal* the damages we caused and try to recover what was lost for all the species? Or would we simply repeat the process until the next inevitable cycle of destruction came? It was a chance to explore how our concepts of religion, predestination, and society would clash with a reality that we were responsible both for the genocide of countless intelligent species as well as the resurrection of them and the attempt to preserve both lost culture and our own existence so that one day we could put an end to the plague that existed in our domain. It was a chance for us to be *us* and make something *good* from that.
To me, that was a far, far better story than *surprise*! The forerunner are this random alien species that preceded humanity and they were perpetuated by an older precursor species as were we... and we came into conflict and the forerunner defeated us and devolved us. Created the Halo arrays and nuked everything. Swell. Take it from a deep exploration of responsibility and hope for our species and turn it into a generic story where we're just in the right place at the right time because a bunch of ancient aliens (God/Jesus/whatever) set it up *just* so. It feels like it was made more empty to prevent it from challenging people too much.
I like the theory but I think the reason why they chose Humanity in the endless because their overall guilt the killing their Masters and then that bringing downfall for the entire galaxy just because of what they did so that's why they ended up just letting Humanity be what they were intended to be
Your theory here about the Forerunner change of heart and why its hard to believe omits that (1) millions of years passed after the Forerunner uprising, in which the Forerunners completely erased the reality of what they did to the Precursors from their society (2) Forerunner society stagnated and succumbed to total corruption, and (3) the Flood came to force the Forerunners to accept the horror of their own actions, and to cap it all off with the greatest crime against the Mantle, the very foundation of their society, that it was even possible to commit.
I see it as far more likely that the Forerunners (mainly the Lifeshaper and, through her, Bornstellar) repented of the crimes of their Forefathers and sought to anoint the proper heirs to the mantle that the Precursors intended.
It may also be we have no idea what the Precursors version of the Mantle is and what they meant by 'holders of the Mantle.' There is also a third option for humanity, was the inheritors of the Flood and the Flood alone. That humanity is great parasite destined to consume everything in the galaxy. Also why the Forerunners chose Humanity to hold the Mantle after their war against the Precursors is easily explained. The Forerunners who turn against the Precursors were not the same people who activated the Halo Array. Mean in like mind set, not literally genetically different.
The Harbinger says John is a reclaimer, yet says the "reformation" had begun.
The endless are not reclaimers, they are reformers.
The forerunners feared losing power, and the mantle. Not losing the mantle to the humans.
They hated humanity because they were chosen by the precursors, they had no 'beef' with humanity prior to that choice.
After they lost the war with the flood and had to fire the rings they came to see that the precursors choice was the right one, and that they, the forerunners, were unworthy. That's why they chose humanity to be reclamers.
Good video, but what if the fourunners realized they messed up and passed the torch to humans?
Great hypothesis. Really got me thinking hard about it.
RE: humans and Forerunners being sibling species.
You know, I read somewhere [before the post was taken down] that both humanity and the Forerunners has a common ancestor, whose genes the Precursors spliced to create both species. While the race's name is long forgotten, I still remember that fact.
These are the most plentiful and long comments I've ever seen on a video, well done everybody
From a Watsonian perspective I view the decision by the Forerunners to concede the Mantle of Responsibility to humanity an acknowledgement of their failings. They had 10 million years of ownership of that responsibility which they capped off with galactic (and then some) genocide. It is a realisation of their failings and an acceptance of their guilt. To pass the mantle on in hopes that the Precursors were right, ultimately humanity was to be tested next, with no guarantee of their success after all.
From a Doyleist perspective the inconsistencies surrounding the deep lore are a consequence of its ever shifting nature. 2 development teams with no fixed notion to what their references to these past events actually entail. The meaning of 'child' in 343 and the Gravemind's statements shifted from literal to metaphorical as a post hoc rationalisation for example. These inconsistencies are a bug, not a feature.
ok, so wow.... just wow, so we have a new big brother, and now what gravemind and guilty make sense.
I remember hearing about Precursors, they created a single species. Over a long span of time, the species split, and evolved differently. One Forerunner, the other Humanity.
8:15 simply put, its 343 retconning alot of lore.
Who decreed that the Xalanyn are Reclaimers though? Not the Precursors!
Not really a hole in the theory but more of a possible explanation to the question of why they would give humanity the mantle; I believe the forerunner we see, ie didactic librarian, were not immediately aware of the forerunners rise to the mantle. At least to my interpretation of the librarians monologue during hale 4 it was a form of repentance to humanity for
A) nuking humanity back to the stone age for basically doing their job for them
B) stealing the mantle initially
I believe there was a story of the librarian ,before the halo array fired, finding the last of the actual precursors as they were before they were before the flood. She ended up finding out, basically, the origin story of the the halo universe.
>forerunners genocided precursors > stole mantal from humanity
I think it's just an experiment for the precursors. Create a few species and see who comes out on top.
What else would you do if you were that advanced?.
We should probably, on some level separate "Reclaimer" from the Mantle. Humans can be reclaimers and not the holders of the mantle, I think.
Doesn’t reclaimer correlate with “reclaiming” the mantle? Idk for sure though.
@@kevinprzy4539 well, I guess. But it could be just the reclaimer of the Forerunner legacy. If we are talking about reframing the view of galactic history then these things can be considered. Reclaimers is a forerunner term not a precursor term.
@@TimeTravelingBunnis true, I wonder how or why the harbinger has the reclaimer symbol on her helmet when it was only created by the forerunners. 🤔
@@kevinprzy4539 🤷 I figure she could have made it for herself. They seem able to side step some of the forerunners paradigms.
Then what exactly would they be… reclaiming?
Hello Installation 00 my name is Patrick, I’m also known as Valkyrie280. You made a suggestion that Humanity is the Forerunner’s chosen inheritor, and that the Xalanyn are the Precursor’s chosen inheritors. This would be an interesting turn for the upcoming battle about where true inheritance falls.
I have another idea. I always looked at the relationships in the halo universe as a web of ancestry. You mentioned in your video, why would the Forerunners select their former enemy and proposed replacements to inherit all they left behind? Atonement. I also don’t think it was a universal decision across the ecumene. Many forerunners, Didact included, still resented the humans. I think it was the life workers lead by The Librarian, who were in control of the human genome that selected them.
Addressing the ancient history of the Halo universe. What I’ve come to believe was that the Precursors came to the galaxy to create life. They made the Forerunners to take the mantel while they moved on to a new location. Through what ever means they determined the Forerunners unworthy of the mantle. At this point I think the Precursors decided to create Humanity and allow the Forerunners to continue living but under Human protection. Forerunners found out about this and attacked the Precursors, pushing them all the back to Path Kethona. There the Forerunners abandoned their fleet in shame and either killed themselves our settled on that planet of which I forget the name of. After a large enough span of time the Ancient Humans had become an established species, then the events of the Flood Human war, Human Forerunner war, and Forerunner Flood war occurred. I don’t think the hostile attitude towards the Humans ever fully cleared, but I think especially after her trip to Path Kethona The Librarian personally elected to raise Humans to be the inheritors of the forerunner ecumene. Given the control she and the Iso Didact were given over Forerunner installations towards the end of the Forerunner Flood war they were in a unique position to accomplish this. Why did they do this? As you said at this point we were more like children to them, though I think it was heavily influenced by atonement.
The Xalanyn, I think there’s more then one group of Precursors roaming the universe. I don’t think the Forerunners destroyed them all (bar the Primordial). I have two theories revolving around a similar idea. This idea being that the Xalanyn came to the Milky Way galaxy after the firing of the halo rings. I assume this for now because we don’t hear of them anywhere in the cannon, basically I think the Xalanyn maybe related to the Meddlers. The only possible mention of the Xalanyn I can think of before Infinite is the carving “Enemy Within”. The first theory is the Xalanyn were created by another group of Precursors in another galaxy to be the upholders of the mantel there. I believe that one species is chosen as the upholder of the mantel in only one galaxy. I have this assumption because we have only left the milky way galaxy once in the Halo lore. Is it possible they are the upholders of the mantle in another galaxy that has come here?
The second theory I have is that the Xalanyn are from another galaxy and have been cast out or fled. Why are there so few cylixes for the Xalanyn? Granted we only saw one vault and its depth is not shown, but the vault looked small. Why would the Xalanyn have such few numbers if the were the true reclaimers of this galaxy. Why does the harbinger wear the Forerunner symbol for reclaimer? I don’t remember if the symbol for reclaimer was passed down to the Forerunners from the Precursors. That wouldn’t make any sense. It means reclaimer not chosen or mantle holder. Could the Xalanyn have arrived in this galaxy and tried to take the position of the reclaimers from the humans? My point here is why wear the symbol of inheritance of the genocidal enemy of your creators if you don’t have to?
I don’t think the Xalanyn are the true chosen holder of the mantel. I don’t think they are even from this galaxy. I do think they want to control both though.
My interpretation has always been that the Precursors passed over the forerunners as discussed, and the forerunners then either forgot (deliberately covering it up or otherwise) that anyone else had ever been intended to hold it - the implication from the forerunner trilogy from my reading of it that the precursor war happened so long before the firing of the array this is what had happened. Then, much later, along comes the flood, the human-forerunner war, etc and it was only after the flood arrived and the forerunners started losing the war against the flood, after the devolution of humanity, that the librarian and others rediscovered the truth. Given their failure to stop the flood, they decided to make humans the reclaimers in the post array era, realising what the hubris of their race had broad about.
Certainly the whole reason that the forerunners wiped out the precursors has always been subject to debate since its unclear weather the forerunners acted in self -defence facing anihilation after failing the test for the mantle, or retribution for being passed over for the mantle.
None the less, this is very interesting theory. It is certainly implied that the Xalanyn believe themselves to be the true reclaimers, but the veracity of such claims at this point is highly dubious at best - be that the claim of the Xalanyn, the Forerunners or Humanity.
I can't help but think of that one painting of Saturn the greek god devouring one of his sons while the others watch horrified. In my mind its a perfect metaphor for what the Precursors/Flood were essentially doing and why the Forerunners put a stop to them.
at least before I watched this video that's what I had in mind.
I wonder if the Forerunners even knew about Humanity being the Precursors choice if they did decide Ancient Humanity, or if that is something that only got known after, or if the Forerunners only knew that they failed
You say it doesn't make sense for the Forerunners to choose humanity to be the heirs after lashing out against the Precursors for choosing them. I think it makes perfect sense when you look at it from other perspectives.
*1:*
The Forerunners genocide of the Precursors was only discovered by the Librarian near the end of the war with the flood. It had been covered up for millennia. The Forerunners that wiped out the Precursors are many generations removed from the Forerunners that chose humanity. You can hardly even treat them as the same culture, given that the crime was covered up and all-but forgotten.
*2:*
The Forerunners rebelled against the Precursors in arrogance - they believed themselves superior to humans, and when they were found wanting, they lashed out. But then the Flood showed up, and the Forerunners were sort of... humbled.
They grew from who they were, and made a more respectable choice in the end.
The Forerunners that wiped out the Precursors... if the Flood had shown up right away and they had made the Halos back then, they would have fired them and then kept the Mantle. But the Forerunners that actually fired the Halos willfully left the galaxy and surrendered the Mantle. I think in the end, they realized the Precursors were right from the start to reject them - regardless of whether they did choose humanity or not.
I mean... humanity was ultimately right about the threat of the flood and the forerunners did realize that. I could definitely imagine that the Librarian would've advocated for humanity to hold the mantle after the firing, which could be another reason the Didact was so bitter in Halo 4
Because of the devolution of humanity done by the forerunners, they’ve essentially remolded humanity into their liking. That’s why they passed the mantle to humanity. Why pass it on to someone else? Why go through the trouble of building something from scratch when your enemy already has something that’s almost complete and you can just finish it and call it your own.
It does make sense because they realized that the precursors were right and humanity was more worthy after thier proven failure and they had matured enough to accept that truth
The Human inherited timeline in consistency doesn’t make sense. Imagine a king has 2 sons to inherit his kingdom, he deduces the elder one is too greedy and tells him the younger will inherit his throne so the elder kills his father and inherits the throne, than after poor management the kingdom is in shambles under him so her yields his father’s advice and abdicates to his younger brother
So the only forerunner that didn't want humanity to become reclaimers was alive and tried to kill humanity, then the guardians were hacked by Cortana and helped kill more humans, then in zeta Halo the sub monitor tries to kill chief... But Forerunners want to help humanity... Right...
Forerunner entities have been so fucking indifferent to humanity along the games that there is no way I can believe they care about humans.
I’ve tried to explain all this to my son and he simply asked me this exact conflict of interest and I was stopped in my tracks.
I told him maybe we didn’t have all the parts to the story yet. And maybe The Librarian did and that’s why she’s on our side so much.
?
Forerunners did nothing wrong locking them up.
All the Xalanyn did so far is: We come in peace - Shoot lightning to kill.
so this is easily explained by the fact that its not the forerunners as a whole choosing humanity.
At the end of the forerunner flood war there were next to no forerunners left alive in the galaxy, and the bornsteller didact and librarian were essentially all that remained of thir government.
it was the librarian who chose to promote humanity as the reclaimers, as a sort of atonement for the sins of the forerunner species, and the diadact who enforced this decision after the firing.
with no opposing authority to counteract the order, humanity became the inheritors of the forerunner empire and by extension the mantle.
in regards to the xalanyn my theory is thus:
they are a species created around the same time as ancient humanity and the forerunners and have achieved a similar civilization tier level as them, and the forerunners upon discovering them, feared thir advanced nature would cause them to become the dominant species in a post array galaxy.
In order to prevent them from essentially overpowering the primitive species and gaining dominance, thereby denying humanity the chance to attain advancement and the mantle, the forerunners decided to imprison them on zeta halo.
the "lie" of the forerunners being that the xalanyn believe themselves to be the rightful "reclaimers" of the mantle.
being that they are "those whose evolution is most complete.", in thir minds the mantle should rightfully be theirs seeing as they are the most advanced civilization in a post forerunner galaxy.
i am waiting for chief or some one to say they don't want the mantle.
The only thing I have to point out, is according to Infinity lore, the Endless wasn't discovered until AFTER the rings were fired. So I think that The Librarian had already set up humans to be the Reclaimers.
7:35 ...once the forerunners had failed and learnt the sins of their past that had been hidden from them, in order to repent they decided to restore the pre-ordained order of things.
That is the interpretation you are meant to have and it makes sense, but that doesn't make it true.
also a big brother typically doesn't kill their little brother, and resurrect them, twice.
I'm all for questioning the paradigm, but it needs to be discussed with nuance, hell I made a reddit post years ago about how what we know of the flood is all unreliable and we shouldn't believe it, but I provided extensive evidence, then speculated about an alternative explanation, not just baseless speculation that goes nowhere.
for those curios about the aforementioned post, I titled the post "The Flood Have no Relation to the Precursors*" on r/halo if you want to read it
Depending on how the situation plays out will determine if we are the true inheritors of the mantle of responsibility or the endless depending on how they act through the campaign we will know if they are the rightful inheritors and if we are not and we give it up willingly does that make us more responsible than the forerunners
One of the dumbest things 343 did was killing off the Didact in a book and not having more of him in game.