The precursors (primarily the ancient one) have said the flood has/will consumed all, the flood came from a simple replicating protein humans added to chicken feed to basically tame ancient chickens (think Oviraptor) as it made animals more docile and quickened their genetic domestication This Self replicating protein was confirmed by the ancient one to be the dust that the precursors ground themselves into. Now all of humanity had consumed these modified chickens at some point prior to being indexed by the forerunners, and all of humanity (every species except chakas [343 gs] as i think they where strictly or mostly vegetarian) The precursors are just playing with this galaxy, to see what happens with their creations and see if they can force another species to come to the enlightened stage like they had. I'm sure the flood fight and consume to protect what they have created. And to quote 343gs "He never got the chance to fully execute his proposal. The Council saw to that. But if something were to go wrong with one of the Halos, if our tools were ever turned against us... long plans, indeed."
Zach Soanes Yeah that ain’t how the flood happened Chief... They introduced the powder or “dust” to what was their equivalent to a dog, which overall rendered the animals to exhibit “more favorable behaviors” (got that directly from the wiki). If interested the animal’s name was the Pheru, a pretty common pet among humans and the San’Shyuum alike, also edible. The dust of course began to mutate the animals over generations (roughly 1/3 of the Pheru were flood vectors by the time of the first outbreak) until they began to show symptoms such as cannibalism which is rather strange given how they were herbivores, as well as strange growths of fur and tentacles appearing. Which of course was when they began to turn into the flood, which began to kill/infect their own species + their owners (cannibalism set off even more symptoms). The problem wasn’t the Pheru slowly becoming Flood (most were euthanized when they began to show symptoms or turn “rabid”) it was the people that ate infected Pheru meat as they began to show the same growths and symptoms the animals did, which effectively began the outbreak. Not all of humanity ate the infected meat, if that were the case humanity would have been completely infected by the flood and they would’ve all died off. This simply wasn’t the case.
@@TmanTheTdog Ah, miss remembering - but it was explained in the book the powder was itself a self replicating protein (requiring a host) Thought it was some sort of chicken.. because i'd never eat a dog maybe? lol been a while since i read the books (like shortly after they came out long while) Thanks for the link! i'll give it a read again - might have to dig out my books and reread them too!
You missed a giant implication of the Forerunner power source, they were (massively) inefficient with it. As you said, just in the visible universe there are 100 billion galaxies and the Forerunners limited themselves to just the Milky Way. Now imagine if one star system increased its energy output from all sources 100 billion times over and instead of doing that over the whole lifetime of the star system lets ramp up the power to release all of that energy over just a relatively short period of *just* a century or so instead of something like 10 billion years (consequently that's a 100 million times power increase). What's the resulting outcome for all of the matter in that star system? It'd be incinerated, and now scale that up to a galaxy wide civilisation and that's a small inkling of the energy out you described them as having access to. The sheer fact they didn't instantly shred the Milky Way down to it's component elementary particles or create a kugelblitz black hole of essentially infinite mass says that they weren't even tapping into a billionth of a percent of the energy they were sucking from there nascent universes if this was a common energy source of their civilisation. They would have been destroying the potential of universes in order to get really minor amounts of energy; it's like detonating every nuclear weapon ever made to harvest enough energy to maybe light 1 cigarette. edit: oh boy I really should have proof read this first.
@Tommy Jacobs First off thanks for pointing this comment I made out to me, I didn't proof read it initially and I'm embarrassed by how badly I wrote it and have now edited it. The sum total energy in the universe is a constant, there's no reason to think it's any different in any other universe, so if they're consuming whole universes it doesn't matter what stage of the universe its in, they're still consuming the same amount of energy. They might be small universes but they're still universes, but given that our only known example of a universe is this one we'd expect the universes being consumed to be somewhere same ballpark size of this universe. I'll also note that it's equally likely that they're larger universes as it is that they're smaller ones given our lack of data.
To expand your point: It's said that the Forerunners are "aborting the universes as they are about to explode in their own Big Bang", which for me suggests that they are harvesting the vacuum phase transition also known as "cosmic inflation". If we believe in the Inflation theory (which is not universally accepted, just seams like a convenient explanation of some strange observations, but let me not digress too far) this phase transition results in the whole universe expanding by a factor of 10^26 (1 followed by 26 zeros) in less than 10^-31 seconds (a sphere size of an atom (radius approx. 10^-10 meters) becomes 1000 lightyears across in what can only be described as instant). What we see as matter and energy in the observable universe is just tiny irregularities in this field density, the energy released in creation of all that space is many many orders of magnitude greater than the mass-energy equivalent (E=mc^2) of the whole matter in the observable universe. Further on, what all stars in the universe produce as light during their thousands of billions of years lifetime is a tiny fraction of the total mass-energy of the universe (typical star only burns about a few percent of its hydrogen into helium, and the fusion itself converts no more than a few percent of the mass into energy, a lot of which is lost to neutrinos anyway). So there is no way to compare energy output of this Forerunner engine to any supernova, galaxy, quasar, power output of the whole universe, or matter-antimatter annihilation of the whole universe.
P.S. I found a scientific paper recently, that proposes a mechanism for driving cosmic inflation, i.e. vacuum phase transition, i.e. the Big Bang, through magnetic monopole annihilation (won't go into trying to explain what that is, if it could be explained in any way other than equations). Skipping the equations, the estimate of the energy density required for the inflation in this paper is on the order of 10^100 J/m3. If we go for E=mc2 and try to express "density" of the energy in this early universe - c is approx. 3x10^9, so c2 is approx. 9x10^18 ~ 10^19, so 10^100 J/m3 is approx. 10^81 kg/m3 mass-energy equivalent. For comparison, a neutron star core is about 10^17 kg/m3 so this early universe is ~ 10^64 times denser than the core of a neutron star (that's 1 followed by 64 zeros). For the other comparison, there are currently about 10^78 atoms in the observable universe, so if you would replace every atom in the universe with a hypothetical particle that weights a metric ton (1000 or 10^3 kg) the universe would approach the mass of a cubic meter of this early universe. The total mass of all matter and energy in the current observable universe (including dark matter and dark energy) is about 10^54 kg - the mass-equivalent of a cubic nanometer (a billionth of a meter, size of a single molecule) of the early universe's inflation energy.
Given the Halo universe applies both the quantum multiverse theory AND the eternal cyclical universe theory… it truly doesn’t matter. In that scenario every single iteration of the quantum multiverse occurs an infinite number of times. Every possible quantum particle location, momentum, and interaction happens an infinite number of times. It’s less consequential than if you or I use up a single match to light a cigarette in our finite universe.
@Nathan-vt1jz and if your civilisation sees the purpose it was built around being the preservation and cultivation of other civilisations then burning a star system every other day to run the equivalent of the local cigar lounge (adding to the cigarette analogy) then I dare say you're probably going to burn down a few of those civilisations in the course of blowing a few smoke rings.
My only question is how is that possible? If they have the ability to suck energy out of other universes then doesn't that mean they also have the ability to travel to other universes as well? Also it would be great if you covered the forerunner crystals which have been said to have the ability to time travel but they weren't shown to have used it during the forerunner flood war which would've been useful. Great video as always. It's always cool to see you cover things that not much people tend to focus on, one of the many reasons why your channel is so great.
I think literally creating and destroying infinite universes each with infinite time kinda awards the forerunners with the gift of: Congratulations you get one free dose of MAC round to the face. Oh and a Masterchief fist.
This was the plot of an episode of Stargate: Altantis! It's S03E08 Dr. McKay and his sister, are working on extracting vacuum energy from a parallel universe. I don't want to spoil anyone but it's a neat episode.
@@aceykerr8752 technically ZPMs extract energy from artificial pockets of subspace-time rather than parallel universes. I referenced that episode specifically as it seems to be a big difference in stargate cannon at least.
This was very interesting, did you know the ZPM's in the Star-gate TV series works the same way? But in Star-gate, the Ancients (aliens that made the gates and ZPM's) made the new Universes in such a way that life couldn't happen in them. ie: changed the value of the fundamental constants so stars could never form, thus making the mini Universes sterile. Basically if Stars can't form, then no new elements can ever be formed beyond Hydrogen and Helium.
Palpatine: Execute Order 66 Thanos: Snaps finger ForeRunners: Thats all???? Try wiping out universes for years and then taking that energy and living off it just because you can
Its crazy how forerunners appear almost godlike to outside observers, the covenant even believed them to be actual gods, yet the more you learn about them almost their entire existence is disrespecting the mantle at worst and being highly unethical at best
wow, never realized how they powered stuff, thats insane. so basically the forerunners spent their entire existence being a bunch of hypocrites also if it isnt already you should make "now, go rest your brain" your catchphrase
They harvest nascent energy of a beginning universe in its primordial state, maybe even fraction of the barely 1% . In infinite multiverse, there's infinite users of vacuum energy then there should be no universes to harvest. More likely they take a smidgen of energy from a beginning universe repeatedly....
You do realize this was likely the Builders playing tricks to discourage the Curious? They were Infamous for going to Ridiculous and sometimes Extreme levels to guard even the Simplest of their Secrets, even those which were known to other Forerunners.
Their energy comes from the harvesting of potential. Not exactly formed universes. Any universe imagined does exist wether you think it was predated on and destroyed or not. Potential energy is what can become universes and it does no matter who harvests as what they harvest is only possibility. The ultimate energy source as it is infinite and so the potential and possibilities for those you think are harvested are also infinite and still do come around to exist beyond limited human comprehension.
I appreciate that 343 didn’t just say “they get their power from zero-point energy.” They got a bit more creative and esoteric with it. Just enough to fend off the part of me that wants to say “you can’t get energy to do work out of zero-point energy. You can only do that with an energy gradient.” Lol
You do know if we had graviton control capabilities we could build these engines and utilize power created from natural particle spontaneous generation and annihilation. The engine would be called the phase transition engine.
Barry Bend Well strictly speaking gravitons are still only hypothetical. As of yet we don’t have any evidence that they actually exist. But it sounds like you’re describing something similar to Hawking radiation. We don’t have any direct evidence of that either. But it’s still a pretty cool idea. If it’s correct then it should indeed be possible to get energy to do work out of it. It uses the same mechanism of spontaneous particle generation. And it is an effect that would be caused by a strong gravity field. But Hawking radiation doesn’t so much come from zero point energy as it comes from mass energy. It’s caused by a quantum effect that slowly saps energy from black holes and shrinks them over time. When a particle/antiparticle pair is spontaneously generated in just the right way exactly on the event horizon of a black hole then the two particles are prevented from annihilating. One of them ends up inside the black hole and the other ends up outside. The result is that energy is radiated from the black hole and the black hole loses an equal amount of energy. The radiated energy can be collected and used. But it isn’t energy that’s gained from zero point. It’s converted from the mass of the black hole. There’s a really interesting kind of black hole called a kugelblitz that hypothetically could be artificially created and would radiate an enormous amount of energy.
@@CommanderHuggins basically if we have non rotation gravity systems we can make a phase transition engine where spontaneous particle reactions plus gravity equals power. In the anime Martian Successor Nedesico the titular ship is powered by 2 Phase Transition Engines and 4 Fusion engines for auxiliary and startup power.
This is why I liked the Ancient Humans better, they probobly used 100% efficient antimatter-annihilation reactors that use the common spacial hydrogen as clean fuel or take energy from dark energy by somehow converting it to normal, baryonic energy. Dark energy is a bit more common than dark matter, and it is a main cause of universal expansion that causes everything to move away from everything else in existence, so using it won't hurt anyone.
mxn1948 True, but the books mentioned that prior to the Human-Forerunner war when the Flood started overtaking too much of the AHE systems, the Humans and San Shyuum developed their technology largely-independently from the Forerunners, so it is reasonable that they would find an energy source that may be different that is adequate for their needs. The reason that Forerunners used Vacuum energy so much was that their hypertech was power-hungry to the extreme. The AHE started reverse-engineering Forerunner tech in anticipation for the larger Human-Forerunner war when they had to take over some outlying frontier Forerunner systems to keep up the fight against the Flood. In fact, Yprin Yprikushma had to tell the science staff of the AHE to start seriously reverse-engineering Forerunner tech to learn their advantages and weaknesses. It is most likely that the AHE would have only started using Vacuum Energy if their weapon tech was insufficient to deal enough damage to the Forerunners, and the books state that the main reason why Human weaponry was powerful enough to completely bypass Forerunner defenses was the AHE’s superior understanding of Precursor knowledge and not to power sources such as Vacuum Energy, though it does not explicitly state that such things did not play a role as well. Plus, since Vacuum Energy has been used by the Forerunners for so long, they would understand it better than anyone else, and so it wouldn’t be practical for the AHE and San Shyuum to use Forerunner power sources as their first choice, since the Forerunners would probably be able to sabotage or take advantage of some physics flaw in the tech. Plus, considering how advanced Vacuum Energy power systems must be (tapping into the multiverse), a faction who are scrambling to use whatever they have at hand in order to desperately survive annihilation (which is what the AHE was by the time they had started to invade Forerunner border space to flee the Flood) would not likely use it commonly, opting for something that’s good enough but cheaper and faster to make and still useful for fighting Forerunners. Antimatter is an incredibly-efficient and useful theoretical power source, since a proper matter-antimatter reaction with even a small amount of seed material reacted would equal massive amounts of energy, and no fuel would be wasted due to matter and antimatter annihilating to convert into energy. Still fitting for a hypertech civilization, but more-sensible for one low on resources and under pressure. That’s just my hypothesis, though.
@@fadelsukoco3092 : Antimatter is actually pretty inefficient for most uses, because too much energy is released in forms that are essentially useless, such as (but not limited to) neutrinos. Fusion greatly beats it, as does Hawking radiation.
im a bit confused. according to how Halo interprets time, did/do the forerunners actually kill anything by the way they harvest energy, or are the simply destroying an, at the "time", lifeless universe tat simply has the potential to eventually produce life? if its the latter, then its akin to sterilizing a petri dish before bacteria can grow on it, or even less lethal than that. if its the former, then they are basically committing beyond infinite genocide for beyond infinite periods of time, which is evidentially the worst imaginable thing, or damn near close.
If humanity has anything in their favor over the Forerunners, it’s that we know we’re assholes and don’t pretend otherwise. They cannot acknowledge their own failings.
Sandipan Sarkar Course it is, it allows us to learn and make ourselves better cause we can acknowledge our own faults. The forerunners just hid their problems and mistakes under millions of tons of shiny metal, hard light and doomsday weapons
Makes me wonder what pre forerunner-human war humanity used to power their empire I know they had precursor technology so maybe they used something from the precursors to power their technology in a less cruel way
If current humanity is to fight the Forerunners again they need a massive power jump, to ancient humanity levels and beyond. The didact tossed around blue team like it was nothing after having been asleep for eons. The infinity could barely dent the Mantels Approach and she wasn't even a ship designed for combat. Hell the entire covenent and humanity combined at the height of both society's power could not hope to defeat the forerunners taken at the end of the Forerunner Flood war
Sandipan Sarkar Hmmm honestly it’s hard to decide.The Imperium is huge,necrons are insanely powerful,tyranids can be compared to the flood,old ones are ridiculous,orks don’t matter,and the warp and chaos are insane in what they can do.I think warhammer wins just cause of the tyranids and chaos being absurdly hard to beat and the imperium being able to at least fend off and hold down the battlefield themselves.
@@alexrodriguez7389 I can say only the chaos gods are a equal foe for forerunners, however necron too, but I don't think the other faction will stay alive after halo array at first, but if they fight in 40k universe, forerunner will be slaughtered by the imperium due to psykers, but if they fought on another universe where warps don't exist, 40k is pretty much consider gone exile
Sandipan Sarkar Mmm I feel like the forerunners would be able to somewhat manipulate the warp.And yea ur right I forgot about the halo array it would decimate basically everything except for the nerons and chaos.However the necrons are gonna get obliterated by the forerunners.
@@alexrodriguez7389 yeah, the flood was some kind of warp entity, that means one burst of halo array is going to even hurt or even cripple the chaos gods, but it would be damn cool to see how many promethean knight they will get after composing every citizen and army of imperium
This got deep. The stuff about past present, future all existing at once, and every being as a part of the universe experiencing itself, is all that part of Halo lore?
It’s called Block Universe theory basically anything the could ever happen has happened and anything that has already happened is still happening. It’s not part of Halo lore it is a real theory.
They've used Dyson Spheres. That's child's play for them. You know how scientist are morality goes out the window when you consistently break through new ground
I have two questions: 1. If the Forerunners has this ability to harness (and seemingly destroy) these many universes and this is seen as bad, what then, did the Precursors do to power their civilization and not be seen as “bad.” 2. Were the Precursors extra Galactic? If so, could there still be others alive in other galaxies? Same question goes for the Forerunners, but as they are more recent Milky Way dwellers, would they return in force? Also, same question for the Flood.
OK, precursors weren't seen as a civilization, they were unknown times older than the universe, and they didn't need any energy, food, place, they are omnipotent being, immortal, God's, they know everything about the existence, they are like One above all in marvel universe
Is that right that Forruners consume energy from other dimension, oh wait!!!!! I must inform 40k, Crysis, dead space, WARFRAME and other universes, they WOULD GET WIPED OUT EVEN NOT KNOWING!!! SO THE FORRUNERS AREN'T ONLY THE STRONGEST THREAT IN THE HALO UNIVERSE!!! OH GOD!!
The 40K universe can definitely put up a fight especially with chaos and the tyranids.Warframe already has multiple Omnipotent beings and the one who rules above them all being the void which is where the Tenno harness their power.So basically if the operator where to unleash the voids true potential they could definitely at least stand up to the forerunners.And finally as powerful as the forerunners are they would get decimated by the xeelee.
This theory is a really good one. I like it. My one thought though, is the fact that, because universes posses so much power, it's possible that even with all of the forerunner technology literally syphoning energy from those alternate universes, it would take them to the heat death of our own universe or beyond to actually use up all of the potential energy in a given universe. And these Vacuum energy syphons supposedly draw from countless multitudes of universes. While the Didact in the excerpt states he can "feel" that their energy draw is "aborting" untold universes, it's more of a feeling that he has, and not a stated fact. And in reality, the amount of energy the forerunners actually draw from those universes is next to inconsequential. Though, still, that does still put the feeling of the forerunners effectively being interdimensional thieves. Stealing energy from other alternate realities to power their empire. But I feel the reality is that in most cases, the power they draw is effectively nothing, especially when they're drawing from energy of the countless infinity of alternate universes all at once. Probably the biggest draw of energy that would have been possible for them, is when the halo rings themselves fired. creating an energy pulse that spanned an entire galaxy. But even that release of energy would have been effectively made insignificant when the energy available to be drawn from is quite literally infinite when drawing from all alternate realities all at once. The thing that Fred had witnessed was when he had peered into the wreckage of a vacuum energy syphon after it had created a "quantum cyclone" as Halsey had put it. when the system had destroyed itself when contaminates got into the syphon. Fred looking into the quantum fields still lingering in the machine and peering just a glance into the creation and deaths of infinite realities, since they're all happening at once. it didn't necessarily mean that the draw of vacuum energy was causing those collapses of universes. as you said, the beginning and end of a universe is happening at the same time. My last thought, is the fact that if the syphons were able to outright draw all of the potential energy from a universe and effectively "abort" that universe, that energy has to go somewhere, and we do see that the forerunners have a physical means of storing energy. and it's the glowing orange liquid we see in halo 4, 5, and halo wars 2. the Banished even extract that liquid to use for powering their own equipment, or at least, have managed to figure out a way to use it. This volatile liquid seems to be their primary way of storing energy when machines need it for high power demands. Their weapons are powered by it, as the promethean weapons clearly have a canister or some small object that has to get slotted into them in order to fire. clearly meaning that the energy they use to function isn't powerful enough to actually run their firing mechanism. The fact that they do store this energy for use means that there is a clear limit to what their vacuum energy syphons take from alternate universes. So when the energy draw has a finite rate of draw, it tells me that they can't have possibly drawn enough energy to actually abort an entire universe in the 15 million years their empire has existed. They just don't have the power draw necessary to actually "suck dry" the potential energy of an entire universe. and they're drawing from countless infinite universes all at once. so effectively, I don't think they would have actually destroyed any universes at all.
So the Forerunners use Phase Transition Engines? You know those operate by generating power through "random" particle generation and decay in a vacuum. That kind of decay literally produces a net result of Zero mass added but could produce energy via the electromagnetic forces and spacial pressure produced within the vacuum chamber. Its simple to make have a vacuum chamber and use gravity control systems( in halo theirs artificial gravity generators) to increase pressure in said chamber and there you have it high energy through a pinch drive.
In the later part of the third book of the Forerunner book trilogy it was simply stated that Halo main weapon was fueled by zero point energy, by drawing in surrounding vacuum energy and channel the collected energy into the firing mechanisms, so it is somewhat logical to assume then that zero point energy is the main and/or used in a broader sense, as power throughout the ecumene, and that about it being how the halos was powered was described in the books as a statement of function as opposed to how in this youtube video it was described in "a sense of" by the character/s, the latter of which cannot be used as a definite of how things worked, since the author of the books there merely wrote "in assumption of". The characters in the stories don't even know how it works, now granted, no neither do I, but you have to remember that describing how things work such as energy generation by the Forerunners in the Halo-universe have to be described over time or not at all, to leave some "mysteries" left to the readers imagination.
To be fair, the librarian seemed like a pretty chill lady. I don’t think it’s right to label their whole species as bad just because their leaders were
Kill universes? You can't kill something that isn't alive. There also is no guarantee that those universes would ever follow the laws of physics as we understand them and give rise to life.
The forerunners didn't suck energy from other universe, they created and programmed the universe so that the universe contents the material types and physics and the amount of energy they need, they aren't snatching properties from other universe, they made unlimited properties by *CREATING* many universe
“So now I’ve uprooted your understanding of your own reality” You... I... uproot... foot from your ass... I’m not stoned enough for this conversation... Kidding aside, the fun in digesting thoughts presented by this channel is boundless. “If uncomfortable.”
It might seem cruel but most of the universes harvested for Forerunner energy would not have life in them... probably. Still its creepy to imagine. And their machines had been left running for countless millenia without them also.
Oh wow, it does. Is it wrong to destroy something before it has the chance become it's true potential, or is the fact it hasn't become that something yet make it okay?
Well it depends on how you look at it, is a medieval peasant cruel for burning wood to keep his family warm? Is he a monster because he didn't let it rot away and let the mold grow on it and bugs to live inside it?
Life sustains with one another. Precursors say life is sacred but understanding of life is deeper. Life is interdependent with one another. It's OK if you eat meat. It's natural. But what forerunner did is taking immature universes and siphons that for energy. Like if 10 big bang happens 7 of them becomes immature. That immature universe is used by forerunners for energy and rest 3 becomes full universes with different realities. It's like a lottery. Winners will survive and losers wilk be perished
It's possible they're extracting energy from universes of simpler dimensions (2D or 1D) thus they can't go there since it can't accommodate 3D/4D beings and they can't produce enough energy to enter a 4d universe like ours.May be this is the reason they couldn't escape.
More or less. The thing about zero point energy is that it isn't by itself a viable means of generating energy, but it is a viable storage medium. ZPMs are basically giant batteries that use space itself as the medium of energy storage. It's pretty cool, and that attempt to actually abide by newtonian physics just makes me love Stargate even more.
Forerunners:use quntum physics to destroy alternate realities at no point in time and harvest every last newton they have to offer Humans:boil water to spin electrical thingy
Could that mean that's the forerunners most power source when the Big Bang was created was because of Forerunner structure was overtaken by the flooded or halos all firing??
I think its likely they do not know about the alternate realities for sure looking at the forerunner power code it looks like a blackhole being kept small and used for its event horizons ability to separate virtual particle pairs and throw out real particles like bosons usable by energy which is likely what forerunners use for ships and constructs so librarian stating they kill universes cannot be fully accurate since by out knowledge of vacuum energy and the quantum fluctuations in the space time fabric, the closest I can think of is them removing energy from the actual space time vibration modes which make up the different types of universes but I think this is still unproven and I am inclined to think they still go for the black hole approach where they use a slipspace portal instead what do you think though
I mean technically life hasn’t developed in those universes yet It’s like the universe is just one big explosion rather than an actual universe yet yes the potential of life is there and probably would develop if the universe is left to grow and expand but nothing has really been created in that universe yet they’re harvesting it before the universe has time to develop so there not really killing anything I mean it’s still pretty gruesome but it’s not like they’re going to already developed universe with in life Developed in those universes and then making like a super black hole or something and sucking the entire universe for energy basically they are creating and harvesting new universes before those universes have time to develop anything
Your use of the B theory of time belies the argument here. If time really does exist at all points during a universe's "lifespan", as one single all-inhabiting point, as opposed to the linear-progression of the present being the only thing that's real, then all of these siphoned universes were never stopped, never truly "aborted", but existed out their timespans as they were provided as a power source for Forerunner technology. If our universe were being used in such a way, we would have no means of knowing or understanding that that was happening to us, and would merely appear to be the progression of our universe beginning, and ending. The implication here is that time within those potential universes is being truncated as a means of exchange for that power, but that would only really gel with the A theory.
I donno, it sounds pretty fine for me... it's like, you start to mine asteroids and then some space hippie tells you that asteroids create planets and planets create life so you're indirectly killing people... like ok, so.... there are just so many degrees of separation that it doesn't even make sense to think about it in a moral way
The problem with that is that in this process, the entirety of a universe is absorbed. The thing about time is that it is in and of itself another dimension of space-time. We only experience it linearly because we are incapable of simultaneously experiencing multiple points in space-time. The future already exists, across countless realities. We just haven't gotten to it yet. Thus, consuming an alternate universe does technically absorb time as well. It's hard to visualize if you view time as only a sequence of events.
So Vex-like (at a child's-like method of theirs anyways, less advanced too those ecumene forerunners). they serve in the methods of the *[Darkness']* . another point Why they Fail in something like the precursors' responsibility. And the halo [Grape] verse's version of Humanity is next.
Wait if the past and future are happening simultaneously doesn't that mean that the universes harvested are both being killed and still alive at the same time?
Time is linear so a dying universe took millions of years but inside forerunner engine it took them a hour. Not my best way to explain. See it like this. You live upto 100 years and you die and your soul floats in a galaxy. In forerunner engine inside that is, it took a second and it use your soul energy to power a small forerunner toy
What constitute you one second ago "died"and replaced by the "current" you, which one second to the future died and replaced by "future" you. Basically, every second you always died and reborn by the pass of times, not what kind of traditional reincarnation we all familiar with, but a reincarnation nonetheless.
if you're tapping energy from before big bangs, you're not destroying any life. that's just a superhot singularity before particles started forming. nothing quite exists yet, because there's no such thing as time or distance.
all of that mumbos and yet they still stayed at one galaxy. Hrm. if that isn't worse, think of the precursors' method of....well. (Still nothing of a feat when it comes with the Patterns though).
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Morty: "That just sounds like slavery with extra steps"
ooh la la, someone is gonna get laid in college.
You just wonder why the percusors wanted ancient humanity to have the mantle of responsibility, not the forerunners.
The precursors (primarily the ancient one) have said the flood has/will consumed all, the flood came from a simple replicating protein humans added to chicken feed to basically tame ancient chickens (think Oviraptor) as it made animals more docile and quickened their genetic domestication
This Self replicating protein was confirmed by the ancient one to be the dust that the precursors ground themselves into.
Now all of humanity had consumed these modified chickens at some point prior to being indexed by the forerunners, and all of humanity (every species except chakas [343 gs] as i think they where strictly or mostly vegetarian)
The precursors are just playing with this galaxy, to see what happens with their creations and see if they can force another species to come to the enlightened stage like they had.
I'm sure the flood fight and consume to protect what they have created.
And to quote 343gs "He never got the chance to fully execute his proposal. The Council saw to that. But if something were to go wrong with one of the Halos, if our tools were ever turned against us... long plans, indeed."
Zach Soanes
Yeah that ain’t how the flood happened Chief... They introduced the powder or “dust” to what was their equivalent to a dog, which overall rendered the animals to exhibit “more favorable behaviors” (got that directly from the wiki). If interested the animal’s name was the Pheru, a pretty common pet among humans and the San’Shyuum alike, also edible. The dust of course began to mutate the animals over generations (roughly 1/3 of the Pheru were flood vectors by the time of the first outbreak) until they began to show symptoms such as cannibalism which is rather strange given how they were herbivores, as well as strange growths of fur and tentacles appearing. Which of course was when they began to turn into the flood, which began to kill/infect their own species + their owners (cannibalism set off even more symptoms). The problem wasn’t the Pheru slowly becoming Flood (most were euthanized when they began to show symptoms or turn “rabid”) it was the people that ate infected Pheru meat as they began to show the same growths and symptoms the animals did, which effectively began the outbreak.
Not all of humanity ate the infected meat, if that were the case humanity would have been completely infected by the flood and they would’ve all died off. This simply wasn’t the case.
Zach Soanes here’s a link to the page on the Pheru www.halopedia.org/Pheru
@@TmanTheTdog Ah, miss remembering - but it was explained in the book the powder was itself a self replicating protein (requiring a host) Thought it was some sort of chicken.. because i'd never eat a dog maybe? lol been a while since i read the books (like shortly after they came out long while)
Thanks for the link! i'll give it a read again - might have to dig out my books and reread them too!
Zach Soanes Sure thing! (I try to leave links whenever possible) some people *do* eat dogs though... probably same scenario I guess.
ah, microverse batteries, just keep stepping on the goobleboxes and we'll be good...
@Harrish Romero maybe they did but it blew up like the time they blew up their planet testing an energy source. Or they just didn’t think about it.
Ah the Forerunners. Always spouting that they deserved the Mantle when they never did.
The Forerunners had a very Rick Sanchez attitude toward the multiverse.
M Aube my life in pain. Then why not let us make profit out of others pains. FREE REAL ESTATE
You missed a giant implication of the Forerunner power source, they were (massively) inefficient with it. As you said, just in the visible universe there are 100 billion galaxies and the Forerunners limited themselves to just the Milky Way. Now imagine if one star system increased its energy output from all sources 100 billion times over and instead of doing that over the whole lifetime of the star system lets ramp up the power to release all of that energy over just a relatively short period of *just* a century or so instead of something like 10 billion years (consequently that's a 100 million times power increase). What's the resulting outcome for all of the matter in that star system? It'd be incinerated, and now scale that up to a galaxy wide civilisation and that's a small inkling of the energy out you described them as having access to. The sheer fact they didn't instantly shred the Milky Way down to it's component elementary particles or create a kugelblitz black hole of essentially infinite mass says that they weren't even tapping into a billionth of a percent of the energy they were sucking from there nascent universes if this was a common energy source of their civilisation. They would have been destroying the potential of universes in order to get really minor amounts of energy; it's like detonating every nuclear weapon ever made to harvest enough energy to maybe light 1 cigarette.
edit: oh boy I really should have proof read this first.
@Tommy Jacobs First off thanks for pointing this comment I made out to me, I didn't proof read it initially and I'm embarrassed by how badly I wrote it and have now edited it.
The sum total energy in the universe is a constant, there's no reason to think it's any different in any other universe, so if they're consuming whole universes it doesn't matter what stage of the universe its in, they're still consuming the same amount of energy. They might be small universes but they're still universes, but given that our only known example of a universe is this one we'd expect the universes being consumed to be somewhere same ballpark size of this universe. I'll also note that it's equally likely that they're larger universes as it is that they're smaller ones given our lack of data.
To expand your point: It's said that the Forerunners are "aborting the universes as they are about to explode in their own Big Bang", which for me suggests that they are harvesting the vacuum phase transition also known as "cosmic inflation". If we believe in the Inflation theory (which is not universally accepted, just seams like a convenient explanation of some strange observations, but let me not digress too far) this phase transition results in the whole universe expanding by a factor of 10^26 (1 followed by 26 zeros) in less than 10^-31 seconds (a sphere size of an atom (radius approx. 10^-10 meters) becomes 1000 lightyears across in what can only be described as instant). What we see as matter and energy in the observable universe is just tiny irregularities in this field density, the energy released in creation of all that space is many many orders of magnitude greater than the mass-energy equivalent (E=mc^2) of the whole matter in the observable universe. Further on, what all stars in the universe produce as light during their thousands of billions of years lifetime is a tiny fraction of the total mass-energy of the universe (typical star only burns about a few percent of its hydrogen into helium, and the fusion itself converts no more than a few percent of the mass into energy, a lot of which is lost to neutrinos anyway). So there is no way to compare energy output of this Forerunner engine to any supernova, galaxy, quasar, power output of the whole universe, or matter-antimatter annihilation of the whole universe.
P.S. I found a scientific paper recently, that proposes a mechanism for driving cosmic inflation, i.e. vacuum phase transition, i.e. the Big Bang, through magnetic monopole annihilation (won't go into trying to explain what that is, if it could be explained in any way other than equations). Skipping the equations, the estimate of the energy density required for the inflation in this paper is on the order of 10^100 J/m3. If we go for E=mc2 and try to express "density" of the energy in this early universe - c is approx. 3x10^9, so c2 is approx. 9x10^18 ~ 10^19, so 10^100 J/m3 is approx. 10^81 kg/m3 mass-energy equivalent. For comparison, a neutron star core is about 10^17 kg/m3 so this early universe is ~ 10^64 times denser than the core of a neutron star (that's 1 followed by 64 zeros). For the other comparison, there are currently about 10^78 atoms in the observable universe, so if you would replace every atom in the universe with a hypothetical particle that weights a metric ton (1000 or 10^3 kg) the universe would approach the mass of a cubic meter of this early universe. The total mass of all matter and energy in the current observable universe (including dark matter and dark energy) is about 10^54 kg - the mass-equivalent of a cubic nanometer (a billionth of a meter, size of a single molecule) of the early universe's inflation energy.
Given the Halo universe applies both the quantum multiverse theory AND the eternal cyclical universe theory… it truly doesn’t matter.
In that scenario every single iteration of the quantum multiverse occurs an infinite number of times. Every possible quantum particle location, momentum, and interaction happens an infinite number of times.
It’s less consequential than if you or I use up a single match to light a cigarette in our finite universe.
@Nathan-vt1jz and if your civilisation sees the purpose it was built around being the preservation and cultivation of other civilisations then burning a star system every other day to run the equivalent of the local cigar lounge (adding to the cigarette analogy) then I dare say you're probably going to burn down a few of those civilisations in the course of blowing a few smoke rings.
My only question is how is that possible? If they have the ability to suck energy out of other universes then doesn't that mean they also have the ability to travel to other universes as well? Also it would be great if you covered the forerunner crystals which have been said to have the ability to time travel but they weren't shown to have used it during the forerunner flood war which would've been useful. Great video as always. It's always cool to see you cover things that not much people tend to focus on, one of the many reasons why your channel is so great.
My friend, that is the next video I am finishing up now. Look out for it!
Wait, your seriously covering the two topics I just mentioned? I did not expect that but I'll surely watch it as soon as I get the notification.
Wow! wish we had those crystals so travel from other universes like Our universe to the Halo Universe! is possible!
It's heavily implied in the lore that they have indeed explored other Dimensions even.
@@renton0915 Dimensions =/= Universes.
They extract energy from alternate universes, not alternate dimensions. A dimension is simply a measurement.
It’s like the rick and morty episode with rick’s car’s battery but like 1000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times as worse
I think literally creating and destroying infinite universes each with infinite time kinda awards the forerunners with the gift of:
Congratulations you get one free dose of MAC round to the face. Oh and a Masterchief fist.
How about a universal implosion of there empire ?
This was the plot of an episode of Stargate: Altantis! It's S03E08 Dr. McKay and his sister, are working on extracting vacuum energy from a parallel universe. I don't want to spoil anyone but it's a neat episode.
I remember that one; very cool episode of a very cool show
Good times
ZPMs from Stargate use the same concept.
@@aceykerr8752 technically ZPMs extract energy from artificial pockets of subspace-time rather than parallel universes. I referenced that episode specifically as it seems to be a big difference in stargate cannon at least.
Lurking Carrier he would be both mad and amazed at the same time
This was very interesting, did you know the ZPM's in the Star-gate TV series works the same way? But in Star-gate, the Ancients (aliens that made the gates and ZPM's) made the new Universes in such a way that life couldn't happen in them. ie: changed the value of the fundamental constants so stars could never form, thus making the mini Universes sterile. Basically if Stars can't form, then no new elements can ever be formed beyond Hydrogen and Helium.
Brandon Quist Him and his sister almost sunk to the same level when they started harvesting energy from an alternate universe to power Atlantis
Palpatine: Execute Order 66
Thanos: Snaps finger
ForeRunners: Thats all???? Try wiping out universes for years and then taking that energy and living off it just because you can
I never actually thought that the forerunners were this much stronger before, they are literally G.O.D
Its crazy how forerunners appear almost godlike to outside observers, the covenant even believed them to be actual gods, yet the more you learn about them almost their entire existence is disrespecting the mantle at worst and being highly unethical at best
Plus being inefficient in every way possible
The more lore videos I watch the more I notice how much crossover there is in the ideas both the Halo and Stargate universe's deal with.
Stargate is humans on equal/better/more tactile terms with aliens, Halo is pure underdog team
*Hits blunt* ...woah
...
*Hits blunt* ...Woah!
wow, never realized how they powered stuff, thats insane. so basically the forerunners spent their entire existence being a bunch of hypocrites
also if it isnt already you should make "now, go rest your brain" your catchphrase
interesting
They harvest nascent energy of a beginning universe in its primordial state, maybe even fraction of the barely 1% . In infinite multiverse, there's infinite users of vacuum energy then there should be no universes to harvest. More likely they take a smidgen of energy from a beginning universe repeatedly....
You do realize this was likely the Builders playing tricks to discourage the Curious? They were Infamous for going to Ridiculous and sometimes Extreme levels to guard even the Simplest of their Secrets, even those which were known to other Forerunners.
So humanity's test will be if they can ignore a literal lust for power?
If yes, rightfully so.
Their energy comes from the harvesting of potential. Not exactly formed universes. Any universe imagined does exist wether you think it was predated on and destroyed or not. Potential energy is what can become universes and it does no matter who harvests as what they harvest is only possibility. The ultimate energy source as it is infinite and so the potential and possibilities for those you think are harvested are also infinite and still do come around to exist beyond limited human comprehension.
Did he imply that the past present and future exist at once though? Wouldn't this argument go out the window knowing that?
All galaxies , all universe's , all dimensions , all realities , require energy. Its not infinite , its just more abundant. But it does run out.
I appreciate that 343 didn’t just say “they get their power from zero-point energy.” They got a bit more creative and esoteric with it. Just enough to fend off the part of me that wants to say “you can’t get energy to do work out of zero-point energy. You can only do that with an energy gradient.” Lol
You do know if we had graviton control capabilities we could build these engines and utilize power created from natural particle spontaneous generation and annihilation. The engine would be called the phase transition engine.
Barry Bend Well strictly speaking gravitons are still only hypothetical. As of yet we don’t have any evidence that they actually exist. But it sounds like you’re describing something similar to Hawking radiation. We don’t have any direct evidence of that either. But it’s still a pretty cool idea.
If it’s correct then it should indeed be possible to get energy to do work out of it. It uses the same mechanism of spontaneous particle generation. And it is an effect that would be caused by a strong gravity field. But Hawking radiation doesn’t so much come from zero point energy as it comes from mass energy. It’s caused by a quantum effect that slowly saps energy from black holes and shrinks them over time. When a particle/antiparticle pair is spontaneously generated in just the right way exactly on the event horizon of a black hole then the two particles are prevented from annihilating. One of them ends up inside the black hole and the other ends up outside. The result is that energy is radiated from the black hole and the black hole loses an equal amount of energy. The radiated energy can be collected and used. But it isn’t energy that’s gained from zero point. It’s converted from the mass of the black hole.
There’s a really interesting kind of black hole called a kugelblitz that hypothetically could be artificially created and would radiate an enormous amount of energy.
@@CommanderHuggins basically if we have non rotation gravity systems we can make a phase transition engine where spontaneous particle reactions plus gravity equals power. In the anime Martian Successor Nedesico the titular ship is powered by 2 Phase Transition Engines and 4 Fusion engines for auxiliary and startup power.
This is why I liked the Ancient Humans better, they probobly used 100% efficient antimatter-annihilation reactors that use the common spacial hydrogen as clean fuel or take energy from dark energy by somehow converting it to normal, baryonic energy. Dark energy is a bit more common than dark matter, and it is a main cause of universal expansion that causes everything to move away from everything else in existence, so using it won't hurt anyone.
Whatever it turns out to be, yes (dark matter and dark energy)
we dont known enough about ancient humans to say they didnt do the same things as the forerunners
mxn1948 True, but the books mentioned that prior to the Human-Forerunner war when the Flood started overtaking too much of the AHE systems, the Humans and San Shyuum developed their technology largely-independently from the Forerunners, so it is reasonable that they would find an energy source that may be different that is adequate for their needs. The reason that Forerunners used Vacuum energy so much was that their hypertech was power-hungry to the extreme. The AHE started reverse-engineering Forerunner tech in anticipation for the larger Human-Forerunner war when they had to take over some outlying frontier Forerunner systems to keep up the fight against the Flood. In fact, Yprin Yprikushma had to tell the science staff of the AHE to start seriously reverse-engineering Forerunner tech to learn their advantages and weaknesses. It is most likely that the AHE would have only started using Vacuum Energy if their weapon tech was insufficient to deal enough damage to the Forerunners, and the books state that the main reason why Human weaponry was powerful enough to completely bypass Forerunner defenses was the AHE’s superior understanding of Precursor knowledge and not to power sources such as Vacuum Energy, though it does not explicitly state that such things did not play a role as well.
Plus, since Vacuum Energy has been used by the Forerunners for so long, they would understand it better than anyone else, and so it wouldn’t be practical for the AHE and San Shyuum to use Forerunner power sources as their first choice, since the Forerunners would probably be able to sabotage or take advantage of some physics flaw in the tech. Plus, considering how advanced Vacuum Energy power systems must be (tapping into the multiverse), a faction who are scrambling to use whatever they have at hand in order to desperately survive annihilation (which is what the AHE was by the time they had started to invade Forerunner border space to flee the Flood) would not likely use it commonly, opting for something that’s good enough but cheaper and faster to make and still useful for fighting Forerunners. Antimatter is an incredibly-efficient and useful theoretical power source, since a proper matter-antimatter reaction with even a small amount of seed material reacted would equal massive amounts of energy, and no fuel would be wasted due to matter and antimatter annihilating to convert into energy. Still fitting for a hypertech civilization, but more-sensible for one low on resources and under pressure.
That’s just my hypothesis, though.
Hmm, hard to derive a clear technology hierarchy from that, but potentially very rich ground for exploration...
@@fadelsukoco3092 : Antimatter is actually pretty inefficient for most uses, because too much energy is released in forms that are essentially useless, such as (but not limited to) neutrinos. Fusion greatly beats it, as does Hawking radiation.
That explains why there are only a couple of alternate realities that are parallel to the Halo universe...
Like 40k and mass effect
"We castrated all of them long ago"
@@basudebsarkar5487 TTS Emperor saying Precursors when explaining the history of the universe now makes sense
omnicide by forerunners
im a bit confused. according to how Halo interprets time, did/do the forerunners actually kill anything by the way they harvest energy, or are the simply destroying an, at the "time", lifeless universe tat simply has the potential to eventually produce life?
if its the latter, then its akin to sterilizing a petri dish before bacteria can grow on it, or even less lethal than that. if its the former, then they are basically committing beyond infinite genocide for beyond infinite periods of time, which is evidentially the worst imaginable thing, or damn near close.
He is a heretic that us why he impunes the honor of the God's with this blasphemy
Which 'gods'?
or is it...
It’s the former. Don’t know why he made such a big deal about it.
im waaaay to high for this
If humanity has anything in their favor over the Forerunners, it’s that we know we’re assholes and don’t pretend otherwise. They cannot acknowledge their own failings.
That's......true....
Sandipan Sarkar Course it is, it allows us to learn and make ourselves better cause we can acknowledge our own faults. The forerunners just hid their problems and mistakes under millions of tons of shiny metal, hard light and doomsday weapons
@@bluenight104 well I do accept that we accept our faults unlike forerunners, but...we...may not be assholes all time....
Sandipan Sarkar LoL never meant to imply all the time but as a collective we can be
To think, that the forerunners could've caused the end of the universe by starting a quantum vacuum decay is really scary.
Makes me wonder what pre forerunner-human war humanity used to power their empire I know they had precursor technology so maybe they used something from the precursors to power their technology in a less cruel way
Might be 4th dimensions
Dude I came here to find out how Forerunners made their energy, not to have an existential crisis!
If current humanity is to fight the Forerunners again they need a massive power jump, to ancient humanity levels and beyond.
The didact tossed around blue team like it was nothing after having been asleep for eons.
The infinity could barely dent the Mantels Approach and she wasn't even a ship designed for combat.
Hell the entire covenent and humanity combined at the height of both society's power could not hope to defeat the forerunners taken at the end of the Forerunner Flood war
The whole 40k vs forerunners... Who would win?
Sandipan Sarkar Hmmm honestly it’s hard to decide.The Imperium is huge,necrons are insanely powerful,tyranids can be compared to the flood,old ones are ridiculous,orks don’t matter,and the warp and chaos are insane in what they can do.I think warhammer wins just cause of the tyranids and chaos being absurdly hard to beat and the imperium being able to at least fend off and hold down the battlefield themselves.
@@alexrodriguez7389 I can say only the chaos gods are a equal foe for forerunners, however necron too, but I don't think the other faction will stay alive after halo array at first, but if they fight in 40k universe, forerunner will be slaughtered by the imperium due to psykers, but if they fought on another universe where warps don't exist, 40k is pretty much consider gone exile
Sandipan Sarkar Mmm I feel like the forerunners would be able to somewhat manipulate the warp.And yea ur right I forgot about the halo array it would decimate basically everything except for the nerons and chaos.However the necrons are gonna get obliterated by the forerunners.
@@alexrodriguez7389 yeah, the flood was some kind of warp entity, that means one burst of halo array is going to even hurt or even cripple the chaos gods, but it would be damn cool to see how many promethean knight they will get after composing every citizen and army of imperium
So, essentially, the forerunners are like the machines from the matrix
This got deep. The stuff about past present, future all existing at once, and every being as a part of the universe experiencing itself, is all that part of Halo lore?
The philosophy of precursors
It’s called Block Universe theory basically anything the could ever happen has happened and anything that has already happened is still happening. It’s not part of Halo lore it is a real theory.
That's cool
Awesome lesson on quantum mechanics, man. Love your channel as a whole
I NEVER THANKED HIDDEN EXPERIA FOR INTRODUCING ME TO THIS GUY OF " INSTALLATION 00 " :-/
They could've just used some alternatives that we humans have also considered like:
1: Matter-antimatter reactions or
2: A Dyson sphere.
I guess their massive galactic scale structure needed unlimited energy so that's why they made the source of unlimited energy,
They've used Dyson Spheres. That's child's play for them. You know how scientist are morality goes out the window when you consistently break through new ground
So the Forerunners are like Planned Parenthood with extra steps.
I came here to watch a Halo video, not have an existential crisis
Yeah, we thought we leave all of that to Kurzgesagt
thanks for another forerunner video
I have two questions:
1. If the Forerunners has this ability to harness (and seemingly destroy) these many universes and this is seen as bad, what then, did the Precursors do to power their civilization and not be seen as “bad.”
2. Were the Precursors extra Galactic? If so, could there still be others alive in other galaxies? Same question goes for the Forerunners, but as they are more recent Milky Way dwellers, would they return in force? Also, same question for the Flood.
The precursors themselves came from a dying universe into ours and created life here
They ain't extra-galatic, They Extra-universal
MinecraftPro15 makes you wonder how the forerunners actually killed them all then
OK, precursors weren't seen as a civilization, they were unknown times older than the universe, and they didn't need any energy, food, place, they are omnipotent being, immortal, God's, they know everything about the existence, they are like One above all in marvel universe
@@ur-didact1991 i dont think they are that godlike since they can die
Mechanicus is calling, they want the Forerunners GrimDark epic power source, because really, feth the moral high ground. Survival is key.
I don't think even necrons can control that amount of energy. It's way too much
@@SaviourSword995 Laughs in toasterphile
@@SaviourSword995 it's really unlimited
now remember the covenant was formed due to these guys and they worshiped them as gods
Is that right that Forruners consume energy from other dimension, oh wait!!!!! I must inform 40k, Crysis, dead space, WARFRAME and other universes, they WOULD GET WIPED OUT EVEN NOT KNOWING!!! SO THE FORRUNERS AREN'T ONLY THE STRONGEST THREAT IN THE HALO UNIVERSE!!! OH GOD!!
Damn that's sick true
The 40K universe can definitely put up a fight especially with chaos and the tyranids.Warframe already has multiple Omnipotent beings and the one who rules above them all being the void which is where the Tenno harness their power.So basically if the operator where to unleash the voids true potential they could definitely at least stand up to the forerunners.And finally as powerful as the forerunners are they would get decimated by the xeelee.
Sounds like rick's microverse battery for his spaceship.
But with extra steps.
🤯 that was kind of poetic and shocking damn they were the biggest hipocrits
Mass effect reapers eat your hearts out
Wow. That's...a crime beyond imagining.
Vex-like. on a child's-like level though. But still Very Frowning.
This whole video gives off the vibes of a poem
This theory is a really good one. I like it. My one thought though, is the fact that, because universes posses so much power, it's possible that even with all of the forerunner technology literally syphoning energy from those alternate universes, it would take them to the heat death of our own universe or beyond to actually use up all of the potential energy in a given universe. And these Vacuum energy syphons supposedly draw from countless multitudes of universes.
While the Didact in the excerpt states he can "feel" that their energy draw is "aborting" untold universes, it's more of a feeling that he has, and not a stated fact. And in reality, the amount of energy the forerunners actually draw from those universes is next to inconsequential. Though, still, that does still put the feeling of the forerunners effectively being interdimensional thieves. Stealing energy from other alternate realities to power their empire. But I feel the reality is that in most cases, the power they draw is effectively nothing, especially when they're drawing from energy of the countless infinity of alternate universes all at once.
Probably the biggest draw of energy that would have been possible for them, is when the halo rings themselves fired. creating an energy pulse that spanned an entire galaxy. But even that release of energy would have been effectively made insignificant when the energy available to be drawn from is quite literally infinite when drawing from all alternate realities all at once.
The thing that Fred had witnessed was when he had peered into the wreckage of a vacuum energy syphon after it had created a "quantum cyclone" as Halsey had put it. when the system had destroyed itself when contaminates got into the syphon. Fred looking into the quantum fields still lingering in the machine and peering just a glance into the creation and deaths of infinite realities, since they're all happening at once. it didn't necessarily mean that the draw of vacuum energy was causing those collapses of universes. as you said, the beginning and end of a universe is happening at the same time.
My last thought, is the fact that if the syphons were able to outright draw all of the potential energy from a universe and effectively "abort" that universe, that energy has to go somewhere, and we do see that the forerunners have a physical means of storing energy. and it's the glowing orange liquid we see in halo 4, 5, and halo wars 2. the Banished even extract that liquid to use for powering their own equipment, or at least, have managed to figure out a way to use it. This volatile liquid seems to be their primary way of storing energy when machines need it for high power demands. Their weapons are powered by it, as the promethean weapons clearly have a canister or some small object that has to get slotted into them in order to fire. clearly meaning that the energy they use to function isn't powerful enough to actually run their firing mechanism.
The fact that they do store this energy for use means that there is a clear limit to what their vacuum energy syphons take from alternate universes. So when the energy draw has a finite rate of draw, it tells me that they can't have possibly drawn enough energy to actually abort an entire universe in the 15 million years their empire has existed. They just don't have the power draw necessary to actually "suck dry" the potential energy of an entire universe. and they're drawing from countless infinite universes all at once. so effectively, I don't think they would have actually destroyed any universes at all.
*Forerunners would like to know your location* No but,seriously. Does that mean that the dinosaurs are still alive?!
In alternate reality time line
Just when I thought halo couldn't get darker.
It's a lovecraftian horror sci Fi bro
343i be like "this isn't even my final form"
*The Forerunners basically use murdered alternate realities as batteries.*
So the Forerunners use Phase Transition Engines? You know those operate by generating power through "random" particle generation and decay in a vacuum. That kind of decay literally produces a net result of Zero mass added but could produce energy via the electromagnetic forces and spacial pressure produced within the vacuum chamber. Its simple to make have a vacuum chamber and use gravity control systems( in halo theirs artificial gravity generators) to increase pressure in said chamber and there you have it high energy through a pinch drive.
Barry Bend yeah like Stargate ZPMs dawg
no that's how the covies generate their power
@@andrew9371 here's the thing there's no fusion material used. This is all technically raw space.
In the later part of the third book of the Forerunner book trilogy it was simply stated that Halo main weapon was fueled by zero point energy, by drawing in surrounding vacuum energy and channel the collected energy into the firing mechanisms, so it is somewhat logical to assume then that zero point energy is the main and/or used in a broader sense, as power throughout the ecumene, and that about it being how the halos was powered was described in the books as a statement of function as opposed to how in this youtube video it was described in "a sense of" by the character/s, the latter of which cannot be used as a definite of how things worked, since the author of the books there merely wrote "in assumption of". The characters in the stories don't even know how it works, now granted, no neither do I, but you have to remember that describing how things work such as energy generation by the Forerunners in the Halo-universe have to be described over time or not at all, to leave some "mysteries" left to the readers imagination.
To be fair, the librarian seemed like a pretty chill lady. I don’t think it’s right to label their whole species as bad just because their leaders were
Kill universes? You can't kill something that isn't alive. There also is no guarantee that those universes would ever follow the laws of physics as we understand them and give rise to life.
The forerunners didn't suck energy from other universe, they created and programmed the universe so that the universe contents the material types and physics and the amount of energy they need, they aren't snatching properties from other universe, they made unlimited properties by *CREATING* many universe
“So now I’ve uprooted your understanding of your own reality”
You... I... uproot... foot from your ass... I’m not stoned enough for this conversation...
Kidding aside, the fun in digesting thoughts presented by this channel is boundless. “If uncomfortable.”
So what did Ancient Humanity use to power their empire?
HaloBaller9813 dysons sphere
@@potatonoodlebear8035 that would be right
electricity duh
4th dimensions?
@Myballsitchsomethingfierce 😂😂😂😂
If they were able to do that they would be the most effective and efficient of energy resources in sci fi lol!!!
"Time is a flat circle."
-The Ur-Taxman
It might seem cruel but most of the universes harvested for Forerunner energy would not have life in them... probably. Still its creepy to imagine. And their machines had been left running for countless millenia without them also.
It's the microverse battery from Rick and Morty!
Can you a current history and status of each ring please? At least the seven rings that fired.
Avenge the Fallen indeed...
sounds like an argument against abortion
I think it's interesting that 343 managed to slip that debate in there.
Oh wow, it does. Is it wrong to destroy something before it has the chance become it's true potential, or is the fact it hasn't become that something yet make it okay?
This is probably the deepest episode you've done that I have watched to date.
What if forerunners wanted a heater
but the UNSC said
Haha bomb go brrrrrrrrrr
Well it depends on how you look at it, is a medieval peasant cruel for burning wood to keep his family warm? Is he a monster because he didn't let it rot away and let the mold grow on it and bugs to live inside it?
Life sustains with one another. Precursors say life is sacred but understanding of life is deeper. Life is interdependent with one another. It's OK if you eat meat. It's natural. But what forerunner did is taking immature universes and siphons that for energy. Like if 10 big bang happens 7 of them becomes immature. That immature universe is used by forerunners for energy and rest 3 becomes full universes with different realities. It's like a lottery. Winners will survive and losers wilk be perished
Now I'm worried REAL zero-point energy is the same thing.
"Real" zero-point energy probably isn't useable _at all,_ so don't worry about it.
@@absalomdraconis Not yet at least. It still holds secrets from us.
It's possible they're extracting energy from universes of simpler dimensions (2D or 1D) thus they can't go there since it can't accommodate 3D/4D beings and they can't produce enough energy to enter a 4d universe like ours.May be this is the reason they couldn't escape.
Kind of seen the halo 4 forerunners as energy vampires...this cements that idea
C'tan right??
Energy energy at the end of the day. If human got hold of unlimited energy we would use it just like the forerunners did
Seem to recall an episode of TNG that describes a Romulan warp operating on a similar principle.
sounds like zpm from stargate used by the ancients
You mean more like it’s failed bigger brother
More or less. The thing about zero point energy is that it isn't by itself a viable means of generating energy, but it is a viable storage medium. ZPMs are basically giant batteries that use space itself as the medium of energy storage. It's pretty cool, and that attempt to actually abide by newtonian physics just makes me love Stargate even more.
Hmmmm....Forerunners meet the Culture and Xeelee....
The more I learn about the forerunners, the more I view them as the ultimate villains of the story.
Forerunners:use quntum physics to destroy alternate realities at no point in time and harvest every last newton they have to offer
Humans:boil water to spin electrical thingy
Could that mean that's the forerunners most power source when the Big Bang was created was because of Forerunner structure was overtaken by the flooded or halos all firing??
Those forerunner mines were good times back in the day
I think its likely they do not know about the alternate realities for sure looking at the forerunner power code it looks like a blackhole being kept small and used for its event horizons ability to separate virtual particle pairs and throw out real particles like bosons usable by energy which is likely what forerunners use for ships and constructs so librarian stating they kill universes cannot be fully accurate since by out knowledge of vacuum energy and the quantum fluctuations in the space time fabric, the closest I can think of is them removing energy from the actual space time vibration modes which make up the different types of universes but I think this is still unproven and I am inclined to think they still go for the black hole approach where they use a slipspace portal instead what do you think though
Honestly I don’t see anything wrong with what their doing. It’s not like they are actually killing anything.
By this logic, the forerunners birthed a universe, it lived, and it died in the "blink" of time it took to harvest it.
Fusion is more than enough to power any sized construct. I’m not sure you understand how much energy can be produced that way.
Depending on how they work, it might _not_ be enough for hardlight constructs.
I mean technically life hasn’t developed in those universes yet It’s like the universe is just one big explosion rather than an actual universe yet yes the potential of life is there and probably would develop if the universe is left to grow and expand but nothing has really been created in that universe yet they’re harvesting it before the universe has time to develop so there not really killing anything I mean it’s still pretty gruesome but it’s not like they’re going to already developed universe with in life Developed in those universes and then making like a super black hole or something and sucking the entire universe for energy basically they are creating and harvesting new universes before those universes have time to develop anything
“We deserve to be forgotten.”
Their devices must last an eternity. They must take that eternity from somewhere.
Zero point modules from stargate does the same thing o well
Ernest Tsui but on a much smaller scale
Gee, I wonder why they weren't given the Mantle by the precursors.
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Love your videos, you always mange to change my perspective lol
Your use of the B theory of time belies the argument here. If time really does exist at all points during a universe's "lifespan", as one single all-inhabiting point, as opposed to the linear-progression of the present being the only thing that's real, then all of these siphoned universes were never stopped, never truly "aborted", but existed out their timespans as they were provided as a power source for Forerunner technology.
If our universe were being used in such a way, we would have no means of knowing or understanding that that was happening to us, and would merely appear to be the progression of our universe beginning, and ending.
The implication here is that time within those potential universes is being truncated as a means of exchange for that power, but that would only really gel with the A theory.
I donno, it sounds pretty fine for me... it's like, you start to mine asteroids and then some space hippie tells you that asteroids create planets and planets create life so you're indirectly killing people... like ok, so.... there are just so many degrees of separation that it doesn't even make sense to think about it in a moral way
The problem with that is that in this process, the entirety of a universe is absorbed. The thing about time is that it is in and of itself another dimension of space-time. We only experience it linearly because we are incapable of simultaneously experiencing multiple points in space-time. The future already exists, across countless realities. We just haven't gotten to it yet. Thus, consuming an alternate universe does technically absorb time as well. It's hard to visualize if you view time as only a sequence of events.
of course I got an add for vacume cleaners, can't let those unborn universes escape under the couch
Doesn’t the harvesting of that energy make time more linear though?
"The forerunners are jerks" lmao
So Vex-like (at a child's-like method of theirs anyways, less advanced too those ecumene forerunners).
they serve in the methods of the *[Darkness']* .
another point Why they Fail in something like the precursors' responsibility.
And the halo [Grape] verse's version of Humanity is next.
Wait if the past and future are happening simultaneously doesn't that mean that the universes harvested are both being killed and still alive at the same time?
Time is linear so a dying universe took millions of years but inside forerunner engine it took them a hour. Not my best way to explain.
See it like this. You live upto 100 years and you die and your soul floats in a galaxy. In forerunner engine inside that is, it took a second and it use your soul energy to power a small forerunner toy
What constitute you one second ago "died"and replaced by the "current" you, which one second to the future died and replaced by "future" you.
Basically, every second you always died and reborn by the pass of times, not what kind of traditional reincarnation we all familiar with, but a reincarnation nonetheless.
Whoa.
Didn't expect this video to take a pro-life bend, but I enjoyed it. #AbortAbortion
Very.
Your channel and you are awesome.
Forerunners, are petulant gods
if you're tapping energy from before big bangs, you're not destroying any life. that's just a superhot singularity before particles started forming. nothing quite exists yet, because there's no such thing as time or distance.
He say time is simultaneous. Everything from beginning to end is happening at the same time.
all of that mumbos and yet they still stayed at one galaxy.
Hrm. if that isn't worse, think of the precursors' method of....well.
(Still nothing of a feat when it comes with the Patterns though).