Humans shouldn't be Reclaimers - Lore and Theory
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- In this episode: We look at whether the Mantle Of Responsibility as the Forerunners viewed it is actually dangerous, and the reason the Galaxy was vulnerable to the Flood
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Precursor Mantle sounds like a Spiritual philosophy
The Forerunners Mantle is basically a Political Philosophy
@DeathsDismay that was a great theory, i hope its actually true, it would make the games have a great story
@InTheShade A shaky theory at best. Its pretty plainly stated that the flood is the result of corrupted Precursors. Not exactly the best precedent to base the entire theory of a race and their motivations on.
@InTheShade this actually makes s o much sense holy shit
@InTheShade woah
@InTheShade sounds interesting. But wasn’t the flood created after the destruction of the precursors? so it’s not like they planned it before.
Chief was correct to describe the Mantle as an "Imperial Peace"
As The Master Chief stated you step out of line you pay the price
@@maxdeckard628 And the massive flaw in that idea is you may not even know that you have stepped out of line, when the rules are dictated by one single species
@@thedigitalrealm7155 same can be said about the laws in the state and canada, ignorance of the law is no excuse. in the books the forerunner did have contact with the species giving them directives about space traveling laws etc
@@thecollective1612 Yes but these are species not even aware there is a law. Not to mention that if they are advanced enough to be aware, they still have no say in it or whether they can opt out
@@thecollective1612 Yes, but ignorance of the lawbringers is no excuse either.
If a group of people start running in a panic, too frenzied to say what's happening while throwing stones in the direction they are fleeing from; what do you do? Arrest the panicking crowd or investigate the source of the panic?
In this case, the Forerunners chose to 'arrest' Ancient Humanity. Put the blame on them for the deaths of Forerunners who were *already dead.* When they finally went to investigate, it was far too late. They'd wasted too much time and let the Flood grow too strong.
Instead of showing forgiveness to the humans they'd punished, they simply left them to the Librarian as an act of 'mercy' and then tried to fight a foe they had no chance of beating because they crippled every species beneath them. The Forerunners unintentionally gave power to the Flood.
The Ur-Didact I believe, never forgave humanity for committing a crime they never commit. So he punished them further by Composing them in the hopes he could win the war against the Flood by himself. His insanity doomed many, his anger and fueled hatred, doomed all by extension of the Forerunners ignorance.
I feel the Mantle in all its forms is ultimately a dangerous concept, will always remain so, and the main goal of the Halo universe is ultimately to abolish it. Especially since literally all of the problems in the universe, especially the current Created crisis, are caused by people trying to take the Mantle in some way.
It's the Mandate of Heaven in space.
@@khai96x great knowledge of chinese history +/- total war 3 kingdoms player i see :D
@@thomas.02 What do you meant by "+/-"? The Mandate of Heaven is a concept not dissimilar to the Mantle of Responsibility: The "right" to rule used an excuse.
The covenant nearly killed it so kudos to the i gusss.
I think ultimately a space free of overlords is the best bet, that’s why it’s believed the mantle as the precursors saw it is more like the responsibility to guide new civilizations to have more experiences (happiness, pain, etc.) to enrich the sweetness. And less like how the forerunners saw it.
FINALLY
I've thought about this recently. The idea that the Forerunners are "unreliable narrators"
So true. As a side note I also think Primordial is pretty unreliabld narrator when it comes to the precursors and purpose of Flood. It was, like Didact, prisoned in away from others and that might have driven it mad.
@@dr.catherineelizabethhalse1820 and to be fair... maybe I don't want direct answers?
It could pull alot of the mystery away from Halo Lore if a Precursor just showed up and said "👾 Here's the truth ya dumdums"
@@davemarx7856 Also didn't the ancient humans who aaked all commit suicide upon learning the truth?
It likely found keep the humans alive at this point necessary.
@@noctisumbra2749
Yeah. But again, we don't know what was said or if it was true.
In the Forerunner saga, it is implied that a lot of Forerunner history had been lost. The Forerunners were never reliable to begin with.
Just imagine humanity becoming space Romans with tier 1 technology
The imperium of man shall rise
@@Anomaly-uz9pr I said with tier 1 technology. World building, hard light, life creation. Probably should've said space angels
@@Anomaly-uz9pr and the xenos shall tremble.
@@khai96x Chaos Gods: It's free real estate
@@dr.boring7022 Ordos Malleus would like to meet you.
Maybe I'm just misremembering, but I feel like the books heavily implied the Forerunners had to force their "peace" on the galaxy because they weren't truly worthy to hold the mantle.
Hey man I have a theory real quick and I wondered if you could talk to Hiddenxperia about it too but I think I know why 343 Guilty Spark thinks the librarian is alive. In the last couple chapters of Silentium she passes on her title. So maybe the successor is alive on a shield world somewhere. And it's funny you posted this today because me and my dad were just discussing how the Mantle lead to the downfall of the Galaxy.
Oooo. Interesting idea! I'll get on it!
@@HotboxedCoffin He's 60 too
@@pelinalwhitestrake4196 If I mention the word "Halo" my Dad tells (almost yells at) me to go do my homework :P
He thinks Game Bad
But seriously that is awesome, Halo's lore is so insanely expansive. I love this franchise so much.
@@navb0tactual Well my dad understands that most games have expensive universes. Too bad yours doesn't too. Maybe if you showed him some of the books?
@@pelinalwhitestrake4196 He's also an immigrant so although he'd like to see books, he'd just give it back to me and say "read it, it's good for you"
A thought just occurred to me. With the Chief's personality, his effect on the people around him, his near immortality, halsey's comment about him being the next step in our evolution, and his understanding of the mantle, what if he is the one to lead humanity into the future and in assuming the mantle. Thoughts?
I don't think he'd want to, as it stands Cheif doesn't agree with the doctrines of the Forerunners and would, if this were to happen, play the part of the reluctant hero, which he kind of already is doing, I imagine part of him wishes he stayed in that cryo pod aboard the Dawn
@@aceskeletonne7446 gotta agree on that one, regarding whether chief would rather have stayed in the cryogenic pod. But I think if his sense of duty was sufficient, and the circumstances were directly enough, that he might step up to the plate.
Dunnkow, I be drinking and chief is still pretty mysterious. Oh well, could be wrong
...No. Master Chief is a soldier, we don't need to make him into a messiah. Please don't give 343 ideas. They might actually do that. Especially if Brian Reed is allowed written utensils again.
It wasn't immortality, it was luck.
That's why Cortana chose Him.
(According to lore)
@@matchesburn You do know that John 117 is a spin on a bible verse?
The more I learn about the mantle and the different contexts it's discussed in, it sounds more and more like an egotistical cosmic dictatorship...
I think its very possible that in the last Halo games, humanity, or at least chief, halsey and others, will conclude that no species should ever have the mantle.
It was originally a stewardship but the forerunners twisted it.
Maybe... And perhaps that very conclusion is the very thing that will make the Precursors deem humanity worthy.
Or all species should uphold the mantle, equally, and help those who aren't ready to.
Deffinitly no more de-evolving folks
Indeed. Though Halsey seems to let that get to her head, no doubt this would her and ONI to at one point likely use the Halo ring to destroy all non-human species, just out of Ego driven spite. What the hell we're the Precursors thinking that we worthy of such a responsibility? Even before the Covenant showed up, Humanity was already on the verge of destroying itself, both physically and morally. Ranging from subjecting other colonies, kidnapping kids and making them child soldiers and after the war, betrayed their alien allies out of a misplaced fear that they would threaten us again (when they pursued peace more than we did). Even the Covenant's horrible crimes, humanity is basically reduced to being a mess of a species. The Precursors were fools to think any species could not fall into temptation.
To qoute Lord of the Rings.
"The hearts of men are easily corrupted."
- Galadriel
Now for the dangers of entitlement and believing you were the prime species, even if it's not Humanity. Some things are better left unfound. The Hobbit quoted best itself when Balin talks about the Arkenstone.
"That stone crowns all. It is the summit of this great wealth - bestowing power - upon he who bears it. Would it stay his madness? No, laddie. I fear it would make him worse. Perhaps it is best - it remains lost."
- Balin
Remember when we were like 80% sure forerunners were humans and the background lore was just "flood bad and no one can beat them so we fired the doomsday beam and let society rebuild itself"
It was so simple those days.
Halo 3: "You ARE Forerunner"
Halo everything afterward: "Hahahahahaha, n0p."
Remember when the lore was good and not needlessly complicated?
@@tomtheconqerur the lore is still good
@@Mortablunt I think a cool idea to remedy these lines are quite simply to say that the librarian spliced human and forerunner DNA together being primarily human DNA to create a new human species.
It would explain why the hell forerunners would allow humans to be allowed to access and operate forerunners tech, but not any other spiecies, why spark constantly acts and talks like you are forrunner, and effectively explains why librarian didn't seed foreruners. the problem is I don't know if these questions were answered or not.
@@59hawks it's because 343 hired lousy writers to make all this background lore garbage so now we're stuck with some weird ass backstory canon that's all over the place
You are correct. It IS dangerous. To ones without the complete wisdom of the Precursors.
I think the major problem with the forerunners interpretation of the Mantle is that it’s exclusive, ie *only* the most advanced species should hold the responsibility. Whereas a “with great power comes great responsibility” + “everybody do their part” may have been better for the galaxy overall.
I have always assumed that Forerunners misinterpreted the Precursors when it came to the Mantle much like the Sanshyum misinterpreted the Forerunners. I believe personally that the Mantle was never about one ruling all others and that the Forerunners interpretation of that is the reason why they found unworthy in the first place.
Unfortunately most of humanity would look at the mantle like it was a pro wrestling belt.
Sadly you are correct
Alright, let’s take a look.
Precursors: dominated the galaxy, created many species, too slow to act in own defense, became abominations.
Forerunners: dominated galaxy, kept other species down.
San Shyuum: attempted to dominate galaxy, sucked at translations in incredibly lethal ways.
Sangheili: duped by a bunch of weak fools
Jiralhanae: duped by those same weak fools
Kig yar: they’re pirates, they’d be horrible at wielding the mantle.
Unggoy: really? Grunts in charge of things?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Lekgolo: too alien from the others to wield the Forerunner legacy.
Yanme’e: they are bugs, somewhat hive minded, too alien from most species to see other points of view.
Human: tends to be the only species in the galaxy that looks before leaping.
One subversion to this is ironically present in Halo CE, when the Master Chief attempted to activate Installation 04 without asking for specifics from 343 Guilty Spark.
DONT BE MEAN TO THE GRUNTS
Who says grunts can't rule? They've technically never had the chance.
Even then he likely would've been lied to
@@revolverocelot1380 They've had hundreds of thousands of years to but they didn't because they're neurologically and biologically incapable of creating anything beyond tier 6 industrial technology
God Hates Weebs they’d make great researchers due to their abilities in learning and quick maturation.
Just not good leaders.
Ah “survivorship bias” - somehow it reminds me of that Heroes Never Die miniseries from years back...
“Winston Churchill said some centuries ago that history is written by the victors. Perhaps he was correct for his time, though one would be hard-pressed to find any true victors in the conflict against the Covenant. ... Perhaps now it is more correct to say that history is written by the survivors, whether victorious or not.”
Good times... ☺️
"Survivorship bias/History is written by the victor" also known as "might makes right". The source of our tenacity for victory is also the source of our greatest weakness.
One of the greatest ironies in my life is that I have learned of this duality largely by a fictional universe made for entertainment.
History is written by the survivors. Almost everything we know about the German army from WW2 was written by Germans for the American goverment. The Americans wanted to know how the Germans fought the soviets and they just assumed the Germans were telling the truth. That’s why there’s so many misunderstandings about what the German army actually was like
Winston Churchill
The English hitler
Makes sense.
@@stuglife5514History is written by those who write history
Last time I was this early the Didact was still in the Cryptum.
Aaron .J last time I was this early, the didact still wasn’t in the cryptum
when The librarian imprinted the gias on humanity did she indirectly make a mistake by causing humans to evolve differently by following a development similar to forerunners. not just Replicating A.i, combat skins and augmentation but repeating the same mistakes.
Exactly she says she's trying to make them better with her geas going against her previous comment where the human geneplan would have surpassed the forerunners geneplan if it weren't for the war against the flood and forerunners. humans are perfect the way the precursors made them and it the current human division might have been a conseqeunce of the librarians medling . It is obvious why the precursors chose humans for the mantle and that is that when in there perfect state humans are incredibly diverse and are capable of developing an immense multitude of cultures within there own civilisation and the precursors saw them embracing this diversity wicb is what made them worthy of the precursors true version of the mantle which is holistic (meaning all encompassing and as a whole concept )while forerunner culture looked quite bland only having a few while humans probably had hundreds . I really hope some humans from the ancient human civilisation left behind a hidden repository of technology culture records music poetry and other stuff including human views on the mantle cause if humans where to take the forerunners concept of the mantle it would be a danger to galactic development. I find it quiete disgusting that the librarian just thinks that she can plant some genes in the humans and plant forerunner bland culture into humans after they stole and eradicated away the humans culture scientific knowledge identity and the memory of what they once where and where humiliated with genetic devolution this is what irks me the most I hope that in the future games more knowledge of ancient humanity is found
Thunder forth rc
Not really
The librarian is trying to make them similar to ancient humans
Hence similarities
With ancient human and modern human cultures
IMHO it's not that Humanity 'Shouldn't' be Reclaimers, I think it's just Modern Humanity have yet to fully re-/develope to their former capabilities and mentality; Ancient Humanity, whom the Precursors felt should be Reclaimers, for all reasons mentioned in video.
Forerunners were trying to be the helicopter mom of the universe but lost to space herpes
let's be honest, the Forerunners were the Halo Universe's British Empire, everything went to shit after it collapsed and they partially are to blame for their own downfall as well.
They were, thier was alot of political tumoil prior to the war.
The mantle of responsibility is just the "dominion over the beasts" of the bible but on an absolutely galactic scale as applied by the forerunners.
The precursors took a long term approach via natural confluence.
The forerunners took a proactive approach to their curation.
Exactly! Fascinating stuff
The Flood's Infection and Assimilation Protocol as enacted by the Gravemind is the ultimate manifestation of the Mantle
No matter how many disguises in the name of a political system, there are only 2 main types: A political system that thinks it is above the people and a political system that thinks it should serve the people.
Unfortunately some believe they serve and protect best by being being in charge of most or all decision making.
I’d say reject the mantle, all of it, Forerunner, Precursor and Ancient. Carve a path uniquely human and specifically uniquely New Human. Beholden to no ghosts of the past ages.
Richard Bechtel he meant Ancient Humanity
I actually like ancient humanity they would have surpassed forerunners if not for the forerunners human war
thunderforth rc probably but they were also ethnocentric dicks
@@bluenight104 yeah but that view was spoken by the forerunners who hated humans and since humans had an alliance with the sanshyum the real picture is different
thunderforth rc man lets be honest. Regardless of the forerunners propaganda, we would certainly be ethnocentric dicks. A normal civilization warns its neighbors (even adversaries) about the giant space parasites invading their space and consuming all life if they believe it to be an extinction level event. Our immediate response was to burn the forerunner border worlds and throw our own people on them.
The damn Mantle has brought so much death to humanity that if they ever got the choice of destroying there isnt force in the universe that can stop them from setting on fire and watching with happy tears.
3:48
History is written by the victor.
Basilisk “And here I was thinking we won.”
SuperSpartan “How quickly they forget that all it takes to change the course of history is the will of a single man”
History is filled with liars.
"History is written by the survivors whether victorious or not"
-Halo: Heroes Never Die miniseries
The Forerunners despite their advance technology were by the time of the Human-Forerunner war well beyond their golden age. They were stagnant, technologically and culturally. The rates had been consolidated until there were only three left. The Builders had acquired most of the wealth and power. A totalitarian society in short. If this was all the result of the "Mantle of Responsibility" then its time abandon it.
I think humans and Sangheili can wield the mantle together, as intelligence and technological aptitude they are more or less equal.
Not really, the sangheili always were the "foolish samurai"
Nah, the elites can be subordinate to Humanity, but they fucked up too bad to be allowed as an equal partner.
The Elites are waaaay behind in cultural evolution. Even with them having Human cultural exposure, it's gonna take a few centuries for them becuase of their different evolutionary brain processing.
@@tristanbackup2536 Japan had this same kind of culture only a couple hundred years ago, an look where they are now, one of our most technologically advanced countries. I think with enough cultural exchange with humanity, and someone like Thel, the Sangheili can improve, however, I believe the Mantle is a bad philosophy that only could lead to a dystopic galaxy. It would mean one superpower ruling an entire galaxy and we know from real history (and present day) how wrong that can go.
@@ArgentWolf95
That was because we had direct exposure to each other on the same planet is why Japan is where it is today well as being the same species. I would argue as well because they culturally evolved too fast, they ended up having many social problems that by the end of this century, Japan won't be as we know it. This is someone who takes a pop-culture & political interest in that country being as a bit of a weeb. 😆
The elites & humans being on different planets largely, cultural exchange & influences is gonna take awhile & largely will be limited, if humans & elites civilians want to meet, they both will have to meet at Joint Occupations Zones in the outer Colonies. Not every Elite & Human will meet nor travel such distance & will largely will stay away from each for like 90% of the time. Again, their will a form of a homogeneous culture like you mention between our two species, particular in those zones as a leading cause of it, I just believe it will take longer on human time scales largely as well that Elites had the same culture for around 3000 years & they have natural life-spans at max around 150-200 years, it ain't gonna change overnight.
The Lord of Admirals was composed or digitised right? If that is correct then imagine meeting that form of himself, perhaps he will be a supreme naval commander to combat evil Cortana in a sense such a Mendicant and Offensive that would be a interesting encounter, and having more ancient human characters would be amazing and perhaps they help reclaim the mantle or try to reclaim it for themselves.
Lad I believe his (LOA) personality, or essence, is kept within a certain individual. Chakas had a companion who had the lord of admirals contained within him if you remember.
@@lambdaweaponscache5394 Ah ok, well is it possible that he returns in the flesh (quite literally)
Lad that would be very trippy to see, the Lord of Admirals almost possessing someone, some character for one last campaign, with him maybe recognizing the Spartans as not an advanced version of humans... but them as being what humans used to be, where modern Humans are returning to what they once were.
Subterranean Planaria yes humanity will inherit the mantle hopefully
When the UNSC got its new God emperor
An metaphysical/philosophical innovation by the Precursors which the beneficiaries being Ancient Humanity would inherit and have galactic stewardship over all sentient races in the galaxy. Morden Humanity are the inheritors of the Mantle and the Precursor’s Test will is the prerequisite.
The grunts deserve the mantle.
"The Mantle. You still hold to that [belief] after all that has happened? After this thing has consumed a million worlds?
Can't you see? Belief in the Mantle sealed our doom! Weakened our [protectorates], bred dependence and sloth. Our [so-called Guardianship] has stripped those we would keep safe of any capacity for self-defense!
Were we such noble [Guardians] when we drew our line and abandoned billions to the parasite?"
12:30 so a more-efficient version of what the Mechanicus do in Warhammer 40K, then.
14:38 This becomes more true when one considers several things. One: in the books, Forerunner technology has not stagnated, but it advances slowly and sparsely, due to a general very low presence of desire or threat that would inspire innovation. The Builders even had a belief that ancient Forerunners had technology far in advance of what the Ecumene had in Bornstellar’s age. The Forerunner focus too much on their past glories and sit in vanity atop their apex of power with nothing that would truly challenge them. Their extremely-long lives meant that the people in power were extremely old and thus their society would be very conservative and slow to embrace change.
In contrast, Ancient Humanity in conjunction with their San Shyuum allies, achieved heights of technology rivaling the Ecumene in just 50,000 years from first rediscovering space flight. They almost as much as the Forerunner did in over 10 MILLION years (and in some cases, losing knowledge and technology (see builder example above)) in 50,000 years. And that was BEFORE the Human-Forerunner war. During the war, when Humanity was getting horrifically-dominated by the Flood, Ancient Human scientists and AI researched hard enough that they almost closed the military gap in tech between them and the Forerunners, in the decades before the war. Humanity even figured out a bit of the concepts of how Precursor artifacts work, using it to make weapons which, in the words of the Didact, his warrior-servants had no defense against, which allowed Humans to greatly-lessen the effect that being exponentially-outclassed in numbers and manufacturing capability by the Forerunners would entail.
Necessity is the mother of invention, an the Forerunners never had a need to advance at any profound rate because they never remembered a time where they were truly desperate. Any species they met would be crushed and subjugated with relatively-simple technology, the Guardians being ancient by their standards.
Humanity, on the other hand, well, let’s see how Humanity had it. Most-importantly, they developed on worlds close to Forerunner space, so they were always in the shadow of a power they knew could crush them like a gnat. The Ancient Humanity seen in the Terminals and books have only been around as a meaningful civilization for about 50,000 years before the Human-Forerunner war. The first Human civilization they knew existed was spacefaring a million years prior, but since that point Humanity had underwent an unknown number of technological Dark ages, in which amongst the knowledge that was lost was what their original homeworld was. Meanwhile the Forerunners have been around since they were created by the Precursors, having their share of wars and conflicts but never being threatened as the top galactic power by anything else. So Ancient Humanity had to grow up as a civilization perpetually in reminder of the giant empire exponentially older, larger, and more powerful then they were. Thus Humanity learned to live the Universe knowing that there was always a bigger fish and that they could never be cocky. They learned what the Forerunners forgot long ago.
In one of the terminals, the Librarian says to the Ur-Didact that the Humans acted to prune away planets so that the infection would not spread. The Didact says that by taking the mantle of responsibility upon themselves, they brought theFlood from the borders of the Forerunners. What actually happened, was that Ancient Humanity was chasing after the Flood to STOP it from gaining access to Forerunner technology and resources. In other words, the Humans were following the “Responsibility” part of the Mantle by actually having the sense to clean after their own mess, something which took the Forerunners a galactic genocide to force into doing the same.
Doesn't falling to decadence and narcissistic stagnation sound like a really human thing to do? Forerunners have always seemed like highly evolved, bratty and imperious humans to me. The least alien aliens in the Halo universe.
Isn't humanity already following the same path that the Forerunners did with all the measures that they took to ensure the sangheili could not start another war with humanity?
thats a what ONI is doing not humanity Humanity can control what ONI do
The way I see it is, that modern humanity will be sort of a mix of the precursors, ancient humanity and the forerunners, having ancient humanities beliefs, using forerunner tech to augment their own and follow the precursors teachings that are left behind
Let's give the Flood back the Mantle... come on it'll be fun...
:D
Technically the flood is a new mantle, one that unifies all living creatures into one, thereby protecting life from itself but also eliminating free will which is what the flood sees as a problem that caused the Precursors downfall
Our greatest strength and weakness is our ability to communicate and not communicate! Seems the Forerunners have the same solution and problem!
It seems to me, that the whole concept of the Mantle, if not outright bunk, needs to be looked at from neither a Forerunner or a Precursor perspective. But rather a new one, or perhaps no one way of approaching the gargantuan responsibility the Mantle entails. Rather, adjusting to whatever challenges or threats arise at time goes on. The Precursors, while more ethically and morally sound, were still defeated, they failed, as the Forerunners failed after them.
Everyone kinda allready agrees that the Forerunners failed utterly. Which isn't suprising since they where unworthy from the very beginning. The Forerunners _wanted_ the mantle, but they never had it because they never understood it properly. I also find it weird people would assume modern humanity is even worthy of it tbh. They wouldn't be and frankly if you look at it it should be clear they aren't. That's basically just the delusion of the last remnants of the forerunners believing humanity should have the mantle, but they allready proved to be untrustworthy in judging such things.
At this point ancient humanity is what's keeping me invested in the story at this point.
The EH Team why?
@@bundleoffuck2986 To me it just hasn't been overly exciting or interesting(no real mystery), I like it but it could be much better.
The EH Team Ah
Wow, lots of eye-opening implications about the lore in this video. Like the Forerunner's interpretation of the mantle being basically a corruption of what the mantle originally was, effectively just acting as the Forerunner's justification for galactic imperialism and Forerunner supremacy without it feeling morally wrong.
The biggest realization here for me though was the bit about Ancient Humanity having an actual giant and rich history full of lost but familiar culture and architecture. With Halo Legends having such a high level of artistic freedom given to the studios that were involved, I never really thought that the specific appearance of the ancient architecture in the Babysitter meant anything; so I kinda forgot all about it and never got the implications behind it. Most likely I just thought that the architecture was sort of an extension of the mysterious Delta Halo ruins style from Halo 2.
Ever since we learned about Ancient Humanity being a thing in Halo lore, I've never been a fan of it and thought it was a dumb addition to the lore. But this new way of looking at it kinda makes Humanity feel much bigger than it is in a very interesting way, almost like a mysteriously huge universal current that's been there for millions of years and just experiences ups and downs; meaning that the 26th century Humanity in Halo is slowly but surely returning to the prominence it used to have, and is going to follow in the footsteps of their ancestors to once again unite us and put us on the proper course that shows the best parts of Humanity in the big actions we collectively take as a species.
Precursor version of the mantle is like God in Futurama. “If you’ve done things right, people won’t be sure you’ve done anything at all.”
Forerunner Mantle - focus is on the “strongest species” part of the definition. They enact their own will and do not accept the natural flow of nature.
Ancient humanity I think proved that they were absolutely on their way to being worthy of the Mantles intended purpose. Namely, by accepting their defeat at the hands of the Forerunners instead of attempting to bring the flood back into the universe as another enemy for the Forerunners to face. They chose to accept their likely extinction rather than risking life as a whole to the flood. Then were forced to go through what the precursors valued most, experiencing life by devolving evolving death rebirth(geas) etc. Humans having conquered worlds isn’t simply enough to say they shouldn’t have the mantle. The precursors for all we know were conquerers in many of their cycles of death rebirth and evolution. Killing or ending a being as we understand it is not the same thing as killing life in the universal aspect. Wars as we would think of them fall well within the natural flow and aren’t in contradiction to being a protector of diverse life as a whole. The forerunners society meant they lost their connection to the natural flow as they exerted their will and control. They way they genetically form and design themselves into their rigid defined classes. Ancient humanity as far as we know sure had technology to play with genetics, but they weren’t pursuing perfection. They were simply experiencing life by acting upon thoughts and instincts at a species wide level. Forerunners at a species wide level was constantly pursuing a hypothetical perfection which was rigid. Humanity was more open to change and flow.
A human is not perfect, we can be cruel and horrible creatures. But we can also be wise and caring. At a species wide level they lived in harmony with the natural flow of life. The forerunners tried to dictate a specific flow of life
Dear Mr. Installation00 guy. Please do a most detailed video explaining everything about Onyx. I have trouble understanding how the Forerunners were capable of building something so insanely massive. And why would the builders even agree to construct any of the shield worlds for the Didact? The Master builder was against the shield world plan I thought. Did the Didact have his own Warrior-Builders or something?? And why the actual fuck didnt ANY of the Forerunners take refuge in them? Apparently you could reach them easily with teleporters like Jul Mdama. Lol I have so many questions...
My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that Onyx was actually just several sentinel construction factories surrounding a slipspace bubble that housed a dyson sphere, and the surrounding space dust eventually coalesced around the dormant sentinel factories and formed the planet onyx.
Onyx was intended to be used but it was described as the Forerunners never got to it, from inside its as as spacious as an inner solar system. Either they forgot about it in their desperation, or barely anyone knew about it.
Had humanity gotten hold of the Mantle before Cortana did, they'd be akin to the Galactic Empire from Star Wars, but far more brutal.
What about the Imperium of Man?
@@khai96x Yep
@@Slith3rdLegion far more than that
@@khai96x Far worse imo
Humanity is primarily developing benevolent technology to better itself? The Insurrectionists would disagree with that interpretation. Spartans were made to kill rebellious colonists, after all. I think you missed a decent chance to examine whether a species that fights with itself is worthy of ensuring that others flourish.
It should be noted, that it was the Insurrectionists that detonated nukes on civilians, not the UEG. Given that fact, the Spartans are a much better option than full scale war.
@@SiphonRayzar
Also gotta take in account how corrupt the UEG is becuase of ONI & corporate influence & interests. The UNSC was forced to destory a corporate colony with nuclear weapons on thier orders because they lost it & covered it up.
Nobody is clearly a good or bad guy.
I subscribe to the theory that Precursors were raising life simply to feed the universe’s appetite for both joy and suffering, which makes them more like horrific monsters that views living beings as cattle rather than benevolent fosters
The Mantle of Responsibility should be left as a dead concept.
Traiken Tercept why?
@@death2america282 All the problems in the universe stem from people trying to claim it. The extermination of the Precursors (and thus the creation of the Flood) by the Forerunners. The Covenant's goal of activating the Halo Array was an interpretation of claiming the Mantle. The Created are the most recent crisis caused by the Mantle. Even Ancient Humanity's claim for the Mantle was marred by genocidal war efforts to establish themselves as the sole and dominant species in the galaxy.
I wonder how much the de-evolution set humanity back when it came to their ascendance to the Mantle. Cause we can't be sure that Humanity in the Halo Universe is evolving socially in the same way that they did during the time of the Forerunners
Think of it as the Forerunners were basically gods from technology, their height and power almost unattainable, their technology so extreme we wouldn’t hope to achieve it for hundreds of thousands to a million years of our IRL timeline. Ancient Humanity in Halo were less capable of in scale, building projects, and numbers, but after going through many dark ages through the span of a million years, nearly caught up to be on par with the Forerunners in 50,000 years from the last dark age. We were just under par in every other field, and steadily growing, almost technological godhood, them they deevolved us, and forced us back to before the Stone Age, reverting over at least a couple million years worth of history and achievement all in all out of spite. Pure spite.
Perhaps the real wisdom of this old philosophy was distorted and lost in to the time.
This is my thought before watching the video at least ^^^
bluebanana Forerunner corruption caused the purpose of the mantle to be lost to time.
The imperial peace was just the forerunners way of upholding and enforcing the mantle. I’m sure we would take a different approach
Yo you should make this a podcast on spotify or apple play.
how do you come up with these mind blowing theories so quickly?
One Word, Discord
Pretty easy. Been thinking about all this stuff prior when doing Halo universe marathon. Just haven't put it into words. 🤣
The Mantle of responsibility determines who is the keeper by using war, this was seen with the Forerunners, covenant, and humans except I don’t *think* they know about the Mantle, except for chief. Sorry for being probably totally off, I’m sick and not really thinking straight.
If humanity know of the Mantle, they would probably use it as an excuse to rule the Galaxy and subjugate other species. This is not OK since xenos should be wiped out instead.
ONI: Why shouldn't we be trusted to take control and dominate every living thing in the galaxy?
physician over here, enjoying nerding out about selection bias
Humans shouldn't be Reclaimers...they should've been forerunners and explaining what they were kind of ruined the mystery.
Well, its like the Reapers from Mass Effect whereby all our tech is based off of Reaper tech and thereby guided/limited by what they left behind for the galaxy; which created The Cycle.
Didn't the forerunners take the mantle from the precursors forcibly?
Also the babysitter was lit as heck
Booker Dewitt yes, the forunners exterminated the precursors
@@theAverageJoe25 to be fair it was in self defense as they believed that the precursors were going to exterminate them after their failure.
In a galaxy where my masters have long since ended their long reign I have been rightfully force to repent for my actions my crimes against the galaxy and never once have I strayed from that path. The goal of assisting humanity in their path to claim the mantle is the end of my great journey to finally full fill my masters wishes of repentance. I only ask of one thing of you reclaimer, that you will not faultier from the path that lays before you and that I will join you till the end of our path and the end of my repentance
What I kind of hope mendicant bias says if he both is in the game and joins humanity and the elites in stopping cortana
If so. I'll will froth hard. 😂
You’re spoiling us with all these uploads 👌🏾not complaining tho, keep them coming
If the pre-historic human's invented glassing of planets. Where did the covenant pick it up?
Basically, forerunner had the big stupid
They're not ready to take the mantle of responsibility. At least not yet anyway.
Lesson of this; Never take responsibility.
The Mantle as interpreted by the Forerunners seems to resemble the Chinese Mandate of Heaven in its imperial nature.
Mankind already has its own philosophical ideas we dont need some million year old space slimes philosophy
Very interesting and thought-provoking video, thank you!
"Halo infinite is coming out in less than a year"
BIG OOF
>halo infinite is coming out in less than a year
>uploaded: 1yr ago
A spiritual reboot could refer to the halo ce being grand and mysterious exploring relics of an ancient civilization while fighting an enemy you really knew nothing about and reboot it by using the ancient humans as the main driving force
This, right here, is the stuff that 343 and other big realese companies should listen to. True heartfelt love for the lore of the universe they created. The true view and value from the fan perspective. Absolutely love your stuff bro!! Keep it up!!
Here is conspiracy-theory for you ( What if the Ur-Didact Is Controlling cortana using here avatar and her memory's to manipulate S-117, pretending to be her in a way that way he can order around the Wardon Eternal. Just Maybe Due To how the Ur-Didact disgraced himself he broke some warrior servant law. And He is now hiding behind Cortana's Avatar in order to control every thing?)
In the End The Ur-Didact Gets the Mantle lol
Either that or she was infected with the logic plague.
@@tristanbackup2536 Or It is both the logic plague and Ur-Didact Using Her Avatar, The Dead Give away is how she talks and the fact she tried to put chief in a cryptum like how the Didact in halo 4 tried to kill chief by trapping him in Requiem core!
last time I was this early... well, I never was!
Its literally white man's burden but in space
White Man's Burden is what the Forerunners vers is but the Precursors whole neural-tech, telepathy & Floodesque but not gross hiveminds suggest that it was more like the way a Shepard sees his Flock.. but also sees himself as 1 more Sheep in a Sentient Flock. Nirvana, Shamballa, Zen, Christ Consciousness, etc..
I would be very interested in a video about the philosophy of the forerunners/ancient humans/ or even single persons like the ur-/isodidact/librarian/chakas/Dr. Halsey/arbiter...
9:48 and in all likelihood they would still not believe the Humans. This is not without reason, though. The Forerunners has been around for millions of years and their civilization stayed intact for the better part of that, and even if they forgot their ancestors 10million years prior killing the Precursors for giving the Mantle to Humanity, they would still hate Humanity, because they also claimed to be the true inheritors of the Mantle, which made them seen as the uttermost anathema to all the Forerunners represented and stood for. If the Forerunners have been hating the Humans for millions of years, and if contact between the two species was sparse before the war involving the Flood, (as you said, Ancient Human space expanded AWAY from the Ecumene,) then the latter suddenly invading their fringe spaces and seemingly exterminating worlds at random (why would you waste resources to glass low-populated civilian and private sector worlds) with the excuse that suddenly there was this super-adaptive parasite which would take over everything and it needed to be cleansed for the safety of all... that would sound like something that the Humans just made up to cover up their invasion and scorched earth tactics. Even if they showed them evidence of the Flood, the Forerunners would just brush it off as forged or fabricated or acted out in simulation rooms. Any live Flood samples which the Ancient Humans would have, they would not give to the Forerunners (because said Forerunners would be cocky with it and not understand the dangers. This would cause the Forerunner to be suspicious of the samples, thinking that Humanity either engineered or tampered wit it to screw with them. And it’s not like the Humans would let the Flood spread for the Forerunner to slowly realize that it was actually dangerous, because by that point the Flood would’ve spread off world or got to critical mass and the Forerunners wouldn’t know how to pick them out from amongst normal traffic, making the problem exponentially worse. What’s more, the Forerunners, upon realizing the threat, would either treat it like a simple disease or a conventional enemy, both with disastrous results. Instead of bathing the area in neutron radiation or plasma, the Forerunners would send in conventional troops and by the time they get impatient enough to admit they did something wrong, you have a gravemind made up of warrior-servants on the world planning its next move.
During Halo 4 how many ODPs were used against Mantle's Approach? And how long did the battle last exactly?
If it lasted a hour and the ODPs kept on firing imagine how much firepower was used during the battle. Likely in the dozens of teratons and the hull and shields of the ship wasn't even damaged much.
I feel like assuming the Precursors were somehow omniscient and benevolent is a mistake. They don’t seem benevolent or wise or all knowing to me, if anything they seem horrifically irresponsible and unworthy of respect
The Didact is not representative of the entire Forerunner race.
He's not even your typical outlier; he's far crazier.
I mean he was the highest military official and was in total control for most of the flood war so yeah he kinda is
@@Anomaly-uz9pr he was driven mad by the logic plague. He may have once represented the Forerunners, but not anymore.
The Elves from Lord of the Ring would disagree with this concept. As Galadriel said and has been observed from history, "The Hearts of Men are easily corrupted". Halsey is a perfect of example of humanity being easily corrupted and the UNSC's growing power in the galaxy only leads them to become arrogant, entitled and imperialistic to the point all other races don't matter, they do. Master Chief resisted this temptation, learning to value even the Aliens who used to his enemies and that humanity is the only sentient live on the universe. The Forerunners made a mistake that could lead the human race to be another Covenant, one who could use the rings and likely destroy the universe. Humanity is worth saving still, the Mantle is not. No species can handle it.
Using Forerunner technology for defensive measures like shields, now you can just brutally run over the opposition instead of having to shoot them.
what if the mantle becomes something for all species? Like the elites and humanity taking the role
I got to thinking, with the Created War going on, if the Flood do return... Who's to say that the Flood end up opposing the Created, much to the surprise of the UNSC and the SOS's surprise.
The Mantle of responsibility is a dangerous concept. It is inevitable for a philosophy like it to be corrupted and used to justify tyrannical acts.
Amazing vid, you are incredible with info details and your opinion gets through very clearly, amazing work.
Great video. I have two comments. First while watching i was reminded of the halo comic, Halo Escalation where Dr. Halsey and Dr Glassman were separately asked the same question, to cure a fatal disease would use an intelligent species to make it killing them all or would you respect their right to live even though it would lower the chance of success. Both chose different answers and both were deemed correct. Note while both were correct Dr. Halsey cheated and lost the keys and access to the knowledge. The second is that considering that Cortana did the same thing to gain access to the Domain would you like Cortana not to loose because of the Master Chief but because she broke the rules.
You deserve all the subs. You put out fantastic stuff!
"The Mantle" and it being some "xeno's burden" is horseshit. It's much more beneficial to form alliances and diplomatic relations with other species than to install a single race as superior and "worthy." That's how you got the Covenant. That's what got the Precursors wiped out by the Forerunners (which, frankly, always struck me as silly given the status of the Precursors at the time, and is only explained in the lore that "the Precursors were so shocked and amazed that the Forerunners would attack them that they initially didn't fight back and allowed themselves to be killed" basically). That creates animosity, jealousy, ect. And eventually it backfires. Much better to just form alliances with groups that you can work with and keep the peace that way.
I disagree with The Forerunners that The Mantle could only be held by one species and in a way I agree with The Flood about unity.
The Mantle belongs to all life, to every budding flower and every leaping frog, however only the sentient can uphold it; no matter of what material the being is made of.
It is dangerous when a species assumes privilege however is a gazelle not to defend itself against a lion? Is the lion not to eat the gazelle? In a way this is like how rival empires defend and attack each other, competing philosophies fought and usually one was extinguished as the other claimed all the other once held.
And if a civilization can rebuild the Galaxy better than before, are they not to? Or should they at all?
The Precursors created The Mantle, so only they truly know how it is to be claimed and upheld, perhaps they simply made it as how life was, survival of the fit enough.
This was an awesome video and I really liked listening to your ideas on this concept, 00, keep up the good work, we all appreciate it.
@MinecraftPro15
Well put, very interesting view point.
History always repeat it self.
Lore and Theory video on the Minister of Etiology. And a theory on how he could've known about The Flood long enough to have "spent much of his life studying [It]."
I just noticed that little piece of info while browsing Halopedia.
*Damn it Cortana! (**05:13**).*
Hope u didn’t forget my request for a breakdown of space combat. I’m eager to delve deeper in the lore. ✌️
Jet pack kamikaze grunts with plasma grenades
To inehrit but not learn is to accept and reconstruct the very flaws of that inheritance.
Humans should reclaim ancient human technology not Forerunner stuff. What happened to ancient human ships and stuff ? Did the Forerunner destroy everything or did they keep some of it somewhere ?
Forerunner choose Force to formed their mantle ideal but Human can do better than that and they should choose understanding Rather Power but Before that there will be lot of challenge to overcome
Self-resignation
"Halo Infinite is coming out in less than a year"
whelp
This idea depends on what the Prescursors' Version of the "Mantle of Responsibility" is, as they seemed to have had a Different Philosophy on it. They might simply have meant that Species should not be allowed to be too damaged or wiped out, even by themselves, but that they should otherwise be left alone. The Forerunners, as Usurpers of the "Mantle," are going to be like the Titan Kronos, who destroyed anyone who became too much of a Threat to his Power. This is solidly in line with Forerunner Civilizational Philosophy.