The coolest moment in the post game is going up Mt. Silver, seeing no other trainers around the outside, the inside, anywhere. And then you get to the last room and see Red. And rather than say anything, he just goes straight to the battle. Your eyes met. You both know what time it is.
To me it's seeing Kanto in color. Mind you, I was a kid when I had this game and we got it right after Red and Yellow. Just the fact that it's there at all is a huge mind f-ck when youre used to playing Pokemon games that usually have a single region. Mt Silver is special though. Probably my 2nd fondest memory of the post game is that little area and finding the secret boss.
I mean it was huge mind fuck period. Games at the time were very small and very focused, often being beaten in an afternoon. To have a full length rpg that surprised players with a post game that teased at doubling its content was something else for the time.
it's such an intense moment. i don't quite know how to explain that feeling, but child me was both scared and excited to battle against red. i still remember the nostalgia and shock i felt seeing red use some of the pokemon _i_ used in yellow version.
While Gen 2 has its faults, *NOTHING* will ever top being able to play through Kanto again and battling all the Gym Leaders as well as the old Rival and protagonist of the first game. This generation is special.
@easportslegend they did, it's called HeartGold/SoulSilver. Now, if you mean they should do another remake of it just remember that BD/SP exists and hope they aren't that lazy again.
It was like a game within a game, it didn’t make sense. Ruby/emerald is my personal fav but I remember the end game ,little me running around trying to figure out a way to go back to Gold. I just assumed that was the natural order of things 😢
Narrative wise it's my favorite gen. But the execution of Kanto (the trainers being weaker than elite4) and the new pokemon barely appearing are why it's not my favorite gameplay wise
@@ChrisVicious I'm pretty sure they meant "do it again" as in have another game go back to explore an old region (especially now with pokemon going full 3D) rather than literally replicating G/S again.
IMO, the problem is that people have a speedrun mindset these days. Just check any pokemon content available on youtube. How fast can X pokemon beat the game, or nuzlockes where every detail is planned in advance etc. Gen 2 was clearly designed to be played a few hours every day. With events only available on different days and times of day, rematching trainers from phone calls, etc. The level curve that everyone loves to complain about isn't a big deal if you are taking phone calls and rematching old trainers and doing all the optional exploration. Also, remember the slogan was still "gotta catch 'em all" in gen 2. The weaker trainers in the Kanto are an amazing way to actually use weaker pokemon who otherwise would only get switch trained or given an exp share. Actually using the underused pokemon and level them up to evolve when filling the pokedex makes for a great change of pace. So, am I saying people who complain are playing the game wrong? Yes, I am.
@@danielgloyd4529 This has been a big problem with Animal Crossing too. The first few games everyone just played a couple hours every day and it made sense. Everyone loved it and played the same save file for years and years. Now people play Animal Crossing by constantly changing their clock on the Switch AND ALSO complain that you run out of content too fast!
I can't fault Kanto being mostly empty because it's a miracle they managed to fit as much as they did in addition to the entire Johto region. There isn't really much to do, aside from catching some new pokemon that are way too low level for most players to bother using, but there is novelty in being able to return to the region of the previous game and see how things have changed, and it was even more novel when the game first came out. What I can fault them is the bad level curve, though. And if there was supposed to be an intended order to fight the gym leaders, it really makes no sense to have you land in Vermillion and be immediately able to fight Surge if he wasn't designed to be the first. Just have his gym be locked until you complete some story event, instead of letting players face him first and then finding some of the subsequent gym leaders trivial because their teams are at lower level than Surge's. Needing out of game information and planning just to play the postgame gym quest in a way that feels sensible is clearly not good design.
I honestly don't mind the openness of the second half of Johto and then all of Kanto. Being able to choose where to go next, and actually being able to do so, makes the adventure truly feel like your own, and not the same curated Disneyland tour everyone else takes on. It certainly would be nicer if the trainers had higher levels to sort of hint which order is suggested like Zelda 1's dungeons, however, you'd still run into being stronger than your opponents at some point. Cause if you're already strong enough to take on even the hinted 1st leader, but decide to choose your own adventure and do them out of order, you'll power up more and make the other ones easier, just like Zelda 1's dungeons. In Zelda 1, you can do Levels 1, 2 and 3 in any order, no holds barred. Of course the later ones feature slightly stronger enemies than the former, but if you're skillful enough, you can finish Level 3 first. Getting the heart container there and coming back to any of the first two dungeons means you now have more health than if you did either of them first. You can also walk straight to Level 6 and pick up the magic wand before any of the dungeons, if you really wanted to. It's possible for the orange Wizzrobes to 1-shot you this early in the game, but that's a risk a skilled player can take. I firmly believe Pokemon should be of similar design; how can you call it an adventure if you're not allowed to take risks and choose your own path.
@@cleverman383 That would've been interesting, though if they were to have included a full entire region it would've probably been Kalos, since Spain and France physically touch in the real world. I was more just talking about how the person said they like being able to take risks and choose their own path, so I was curious what they thought of Scarlet and Violet based on that.
It makes no sense that you're still fighting Pokemon that barely crack level 20 by the time of you reach Clair. Also I get that adding kanto alone was impressive, but it doesn't excuse how bad it was executed. Also locking a non negligible amount of Johto Pokemon to Kanto, let alone mount silver (cough cough larvitar) is really stupid, and technical limitations don't excuse that. I say this as someone that actually likes gen 2, it's faults are really hard to excuse at times. I do get tired of people saying this was the first time for a lot of things as a crutch to excuse bad game design.
The inclusion of a second region was great to have, however the level curve in the Kanto region was hot garbage. The wild pokemon on all routes should have been in the mid thirties to early fourties and the trainers pokemon should have been in the mid fifties (with the gym leaders in the low to mid 60s). Just one shotting most of the pokemon there gets really boring really fast.
The post game is bad in terms of the leveling curve. Trainers are too weak and wild Pokémon are way too low lv It’s garbage and the fact some Johto Pokémon can only be found on Kanto like Slugma, Houndour and Murkrow, which lore wise make zero sense The idea of Kanto is great, the implementation was trash
@@aceclover758 "and the fact some Johto Pokémon can only be found on Kanto like Slugma, Houndour and Murkrow" Never become a game designer If they were all in Johto you fuckers would complain that there's nothing in Kanto And also, there weren't Generations when GSC released, they were just new Pokemon and not Gen 2 Pokemon
@@brandonlangley1009 you didnt notice any of that when the game was new and you were 9 years old at the time. If you dont remember how you felt landing in kanto and going through the entire game and how magical that was at the time, then you are probably one of those reddit/twitter kids the previous comment is mentioning. Objectively, yes, its hot garbage having the pokemon be such low level in kanto as a post game area, buta s a kid, when it mattered, it was a fantastic experience. Everyone had a gameboy, and a lot of kids would battle each other during recess or after school. It was how i completed my pokedex. Loser trades whatever pokemon winner wanted. Yall dont have that experience today, so it seems trash. Back then, though, we had reasons to catch the rare dark pokemon just to show off to your friends, or raise the new pokemon to battle your friends and counter their team with a houndour because they dont know how low the chance is to actually catch one. Doing things like raising pokemon with egg moves to trade with your friends. It was a different time back then, and kids these days will never enjoy the original games the way they were meant to. I highly reccomend yall play the DS remakes, Heartgold and Soulsilver. As someone who literally am the 9 year old in this scenario, the remakes were fantastic and had a ton of quality of life changes that brought it to modern game design.
I felt this too. I was beyond amazed when I found out not only was johto connected to Kanto but you could also VISIT KANTO? it was wonderful being (slightly) older remembering my first pokemon game. The fact that you could experience that was more than I could imagine when playing crystal for the first time. Magical they let us to do that.
I think the end game suffers from the fact that the “railroad” they put you on is NOT obvious at all. I love the order you did things in, and I will be trying this, but nobody can know to do this order on their first play-through, and that’s the issue. Great video, man!
Oh, that's odd. I didn't know people thought the post game was bad. All of my friends still say Gold and Silver were the best, back in the day. Sure, looking at it now, it seems limited. But back then, it felt like they'd put nearly the entirety of Red and Blue into our new games and it was a shock when it happened. We had no idea there was gonna be a return to Kanto, so maybe the rose colored glasses have kept it nice in my mind. Playing the Crystal Clear romhack a lot also colors my perception though, I'll admit. lol
It was not a remotely popular opinion until the past few years where people decided to look back at these games "in retrospect"(aka without context for the limitations of when and how they were made). This kind of dissatisfaction with the older games is also peddled pretty aggressively by a certain Poketuber who decided one of the mainstays of their channel would be rom-hacking older Pokemon games in order to "fix" them.
@@Seiyol Pretty much anyone that remembers the game fondly thinks very highly of it. Pretty much anyone that plays gen2 with any frequency thinks it's bad. The gym leaders are just pathetic. Janine is probably the worst offender, with pokemon as low as level 33. Brock's entire team is quad weak to grass, and are just bad in general. Over half of his team isn't even fully evolved, and this is, again, post-game content. There's literally only one competent leader, meaning every battle is a joke until suddenly you get really good battles with Blue, then Red. Seven wasted gyms, a rocket subplot in which you are required to battle 0 rockets, and a boatload of nostalgia.
@@TotallyCluelessGamer That's a pretty cheap shot to take at other people that make romhacks. You can like these games and still admit more could have been done with them. No need to get catty.
What I find the most impressive about the post game of gen 2 is a techincal aspect: the entire game is only ~2MBs of data. Yes, Megabytes. How did they fit so much stuff in only 2 MBs??!
People need to stop looking at this through a modern lens: when you where 10 year old and have no idea Kanto was in the game, well it was simply mind blowing. 🌋
@@SimonFrack Non existent post game in any other generation except 5th. How can anyone call the dumb battle towers post game? That's just a boring gauntlet.
@@Gatitasecsii The only thing with any real longevity for a single save file. Replay value is insane plus it offers an actual challenge. That is why people love them.
@@Gatitasecsii This. Battling difficult NPC trainers is okay but gets old really quick, plus you have to grind the shit out of it just to get any rewards. I'd much rather have the bonus adventure that the gen 2 games offered
I saw the Japanese copies of Gold/Silver locked behind glass in an American store a few months before the English version release as a kid and the magic feeling of that moment has never been matched since.
'False Swipe' is a move Scythers can learn that cannot damage an opponent below 1hp, it is indispensable for capturing and not killing low level pokemon.
Weird to think of Red as this 13 year old badass who lives alone on a mountain with his Pokemon and Professor Oak is just like "Look, there's this crazy kid up there; I try to keep people away but you have 16 gym badges so can you 'take care' of him for us?"
Analysis of Gen 2’s postgame requires so much context - yes, 20 some years later, there are some glaring issues. At the time of its release? This was a pretty profound inclusion especially when you consider how bare the Gen 1 games were after beating the elite four. I think that’s why you see such a vast difference in perception of Gen 2 amongst players of different ages. Younger players who weren’t there to experience it in real time will never understand the excitement and aesthetic and vibes back then.
Totally. And without internet, we didn't know how much game there still was. Even looking at it now, it's clear many issues came from a single choice to make Kanto feel accurate rather than to make it fit in with the existing level curve. Beefing up the trainers, OR giving another ~2 ways to grind, would have gone quite far to help it.
It was also shocking for memory reason. red and blue already were cramming a lot of stuff in for a gameboy game and somehow gold and silver had like... two games? almost double the number of pokemon, better sprites and colors, just, more more more, a lot more stuff. Nowadays it's not really a limiting factor anymore, but at the time it really shown great care to work around these limitation to bring in as much content as possible (mentality which has had pretty bad repercussions later down the line on game design philosophy but lead to very cool moments at the time). And even as kids we were really aware of the limitations of the games we were playing. Like, even materially, when you play red and blue with a cartridge you realize quickly it's held by duct tape and a prayer, when you have to blow in your cartridge to dislodge some dust so that the game boots properly for exemple. So even if we weren't fully aware of the behind the scenes of how everything works it was still pretty clear what was technically impressive and what wasn't. Nowadays it feels more blurry and some high tech feats can be to be able to do an effect without needing a lot of worker while something can look impressive and just be the result of one hundred people crunching to death. And there aren't that many game design decision guided by technical limitations anymore. (at least not as a primary factor). Not saying those technical limitations were good, but yeah it's really important to understand the context and the wonder something like that has generated.
@@colevitiritto8976 it has the battle tower and some other stuff like that. It's still directly inferior to HGSS but having grown up with GSC I still prefer them
People don't like the post game? Was the best post game experience I've ever had. I remember not knowing about Kanto after 2 full Johto playthroughs in Crystal and it now my mind as a kid.
I've never understood the hate the Kanto post game got. Even then I understood that Kanto was an extra area, a nostalgic return. My favorite aspect of Post Kanto is how the physical limitations made Kanto into a You can never go home story Kanto remains familiar but forever changed by time, in a way it really helped me understand Tajiri's sense of loss of his old rural stomping grounds.
Yeah it's like a free DLC that gives you a chance to experience Red/blue version to a lesser degree. First time I played the game I didn't use a guide/walkthrough so the Kanto region is a welcome surprise for me. People complaining are clowns.
I think hindsight has been the only thing to hurt Gen 2's postgame. At the time of release, it was something no one even expected, something extremely exciting that we kept BEGGING to have come back in subsequent Gens--so much so that rumors circulated with each new gen that we would get to go back to this region, or that region. Now in Gens 8 and 9 where we get to unlock new areas/regions in the form of DLC, going to Kanto feels dated and, as already stated, empty. But it's still a fun experience as it is, and still a pretty big achievement for its time, considering future gens on the handheld console couldn't come close to accomplishing it. I still think it's the best postgame of the handheld console era.
if pokemon gold was released with today's modern "video game standards". it would be a $60 digital game and the kanto postgame would be a $30 dlc with the last 4 gym leaders being $$$ dlc unlockable gym battles the fact people complain about gold/silvers's postgame baffles me. it had some stuff that was questionable but the fact they could even fit all of that in the gameboy game cart with its memory size limitations was beyond impressive
My only issue with the post game of Johto is that it locks out content from the main game. I cannot use stone evolutions until i beat the game and make it to celadon. If it didn't mess up my fun with the main game, I would consider it a 10/10
Was also not a fan, in gen 2 specifically, that the radio card was optional. Had to go all the way back to jubilife to wake up the snorlax. But that's because I started johto with the 4th Gen, and I didn't even think about it
@@masoncasey9353 I assume by Jubilife you meant Goldenrod, but easy to mistake honestly, considering they both feature in gen 4 games and fill broadly similar roles XD. I agree the potential for missing the radio card in a casual playthrough is unfortunate, both for the reason you describe and several others. For one it's straight up intended as a core feature of the 'Pokegear' and missing it almost makes a redundancy of this extra menu. Another is the intertwining of the radio mechanic with the Rocket takeover narrative - probably one of the most memorable moments I've had playing a pokemon game was of hearing the news of strange radio signals, turning my radio on, and discovering for myself that Team Rocket really had taken over all the channels.
@@kutless45This was definitely the case originally because Bill’s grandfather only gives you one stone of each type in Gold and Silver. This was fixed in Crystal, where he gives you a stone every time you show him the correct Pokémon. Trainers who give you a stone if you exchange numbers were also added.
The Kanto experience was the first time in my entire life I recognized the feeling of nostalgia. I didn't know there was a word for the feeling but I felt it. I do wish it wasn't such a cakewalk but it's honestly not a dealbreaker for me. I just think it's so impactful to see the progression of the in-game world over time and see what has changed. It's a simple thing but so effective. This is a fantastic video, and I love your philosophy with which you make your videos that you stated in the intro. I'm subbed :)
I think a lot more kids used the post game correctly and had a lot of fun creating new teams and crafting their own narratives for them. Unfortunately, the incentive to do this isn't exactly strong enough to convince more extrinsically motivated players to play in this way. I think the GS post game is in an interesting spot where it is beloved by many, but the conversation around it doesn't often include these people because most of them aren't the kind of people to be so concerned
Amen! Crafting new teams is a big part of the experience I didn't touch on here, since my style still did need me to be goal focused on Red. All of us back in 2000 were plenty happy with this part of the game as a large unexpected bonus.
@@balthasargerard7246if you consider a comment pointless (which i'd contest here given this is a relevant anecdote expressing this person's feelings on the subject of the video), surely there are better uses of your time and energy than responding to it in a totally non-constructive manner?
17:18 The sign doesn't say "on the east side". It says "on the left side" and you can only read it from above. So the item is, in fact, to the left of the sign for every non-fourth-dimensional being reading the sign..
The dude with the lvl 12 Pidgey actually gives you a tip on how to train low level pokemons against stronger foes, so it's not as weird as it first seems.
I'm in the process of 100%ing gen 2 (so Stadium 2 included) and just got Blue's badge today, which means Red is the only thing that's left. I have to say... the problem I have with the postgame is that it fails to take advantage of the things that make Johto great. Kanto proper is completely devoid of daily events, not a single berry tree or Pokegear trainer or anything else. When you're in the heart of Johto, after beating Whitney, that's the sweetspot and peak of the game. You have a bit of freedom but not too much to where it feels like there's nothing to do. And you have a reason to check in every day for daily stuff, even if you aren't planning on making story progress. You have a ton of daily trees, trainers, Bug Contest, etc available to you. Once I progressed past that point to Radio Tower and beyond, it felt like the game got thinner and thinner on content, and the level curve also drops off at this point. Kanto is that problem to an extreme. It really just feels like they ran out of time on this game, and it's a big shame...
I guess they put in two Steel Wing TMs because technically the Rock Tunnel is optional. Whenever I played Gold and Silver, I avoided going through the Rock Tunnel purely because I didn't like getting lost in there in Red, Blue and Yellow and saw that I could just ignore it entirely since nothing blocks you from getting to either of the towns it connected to originally.
So glad you made this video Mothy! I started out playing Pokemon with these games, so they've always had a special place in my heart. I've always been aware that there were flaws, but they weren't ever enough for me to not love every aspect of the games. These pair of videos you created really helped highlight all of the great things in these games, while also taking the time to acknowledge the flaws that came along with them. Thanks for making great content, I'm looking forward to your next video!
If the Kanto gym's were pumped up 10 - 20 levels it would be the most perfect endgame in Pokemon history. I still love the idea of going back to sweep Kanto then fighting Red, but man, even Blue is just a scrub if you have even the most basically built up team and that will always be sad to me.
I feel like the Kanto experience only turned out like it did because they had no choice but to send us to vermillion first. I also don't mind that they decided to send us a different route than the original RBY, because it would've felt redundand to just go from Pallet through to Cinnabar. But i agree that Lt. Surge should've been the lowest level Kanto Leader. The curve could've been something like Surge, Sabrina, Misty, Erika, Janine, with Blue/Blaine and Brock all being on a similar difficulty as final 3 options. Brock, Gen1s easiest Gymleader being one of the hardest one is also just a fun idea.
Shuffling the levels they gave to each leader would have been smart, yeah. They have all trained since gen 1; no reason they need to have all trained proportionate amounts. Brock and Misty are young, they could have been made powerful gym leaders. Strong Brock would have been legendary
THANK you. The postgame moment where you realise this is YOUR quest YOU decide to do in YOUR way was years ahead of its time and a lot of people just weren't ready for it. The player fight also has one of the best final boss tracks in gaming and really feels like it caps off the the GB/GBC era perfectly.
15:33 I was surprised to hear this mentioned. To those who don't know, this is an example of a graph that is Semi-Eulerian, meaning that a trail exists that passes through all edges without repetition that ends at opposite odd vertices (odd vertices appear in pairs as a result of the Handshaking Lemma). In a discussion about the Seven Bridges of Königsberg, Euler discussed a problem similar to this one. The paper was actually the first in the field of Graph Theory. He also found that a path could exist through all edges, without repetition, while ending at the vertex of origin if the number of edges connected to each vertex was even. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
@@ji_mothy I actually just learned that stuff last semester in my Discrete Mathematical Modeling class. Now I'm going to grad school for my PHD in Applied Mathematics this upcoming semester.
17:24 It might be to the right of the sign from our perspective - but remember, the CHARACTER is looking south, reading the sign. Meaning from the characters perspective, they need to move east, which is to their left. So the sign is correct in-universe (as how it should be).
I agree, i think ppl give the “post game”(not really the post game itself but the level curvature) a bad rep bc its one of the few things wrong w the games. Granted there are things wrong with all games even great ones, but I mean, at least speaking in this context, as a “real” issue. Bc its honestly not that big of a deal
Getting a whole old area to explore with nostalgia and a new area with f**king Red at the end?! Loved it. Only vad thing was that they locked 4 new mons in Kanto/Mt. Silver
Yeah I'm convinced people that talk shit about Jhoto's post game are just zoomers that didn't live through that era and are looking for things to complain about. Going from gen one where you get your ass booted back to Pallet town to gen 2 where you get your entire map doubled was fucking incredible. Imagine being 11 years old and you finally brute Force your way through the elite four and beat the game and they're like btw you can go back to Pokemon red and blue now too!
I binged all of your Pokemon videos in the last few days and what a pleasant surprise to see this in my feed the day after I finished! I love the look at content that most people skip over. High quality stuff, looking forward to whatever you do next.
@@ji_mothy Good stuff! With your delivery i'm not surprised you have Radio experience. However, Not to sound obnoxious, but I would like to offer a small amount of criticism. Not sure if it bothered other people, but the close-up radio style recording introduced alot of plosive popping and it was a bit much for me. Did love the video though bud.
@@ji_mothyjust curious…..in the 10 corporate years were you able to payoff your mortgage and car loan in order to launch a TH-cam channel? Or do you do other work like own a business now?
Ngl, as someone who played gold when it came out, I had no idea people didn't like the post-game. Thought it was dope. No one I knew complained about it
Really been digging your Pokemon videos....it's been a serious trip down memory lane. You've really been nailing it! Honestly, I'd love to do some Pokemon content someday....🤔
hi JK!! Happy you're enjoying :D I definitely threw my subs for a loop when I picked up pokemon content but I'm happy I ended up here! Now how to complete pokemon with knives only...
Been watching since the Dark souls route videos and I just wanna say I love your channel! I'm so glad to see you taking the idea and applying it to other games, it's been a real blast!
New mothy!!! I never knew about the postgame as a kid? Like... I learned about it during a GDQ run a few years ago! 😅 I've been meaning to replay Gold/Silver ever since.
Who's "we" (in response to the thumbnail)? I've always adored the hell out of Gen 2's post game. Revisiting Kanto was such a pleasant surprise. I didn't have the vocabulary then, but it was oddly nostalgic, if you can even possess nostalgia for something just a few years after experiencing it for the first time.
12:19 I’m surprised you didn’t just give Tuna Baby an Everstone to eliminate manually canceling the evolution, especially since you get one after Togepi hatches from Prof. Elm.
It didn't bother me having it separated into two videos. I think it worked fantastic and I'm definitely looking forward to more videos I know you probably won't do all the Pokemon in a row but do you plan on going through all of them eventually?
@@ji_mothy I know it's not technically as intended but I would suggest an emulator. I believe some of the emulators even support Link cable Trading if that is required at any point
@@McLovinModsEmulators are, to the best of my knowledge, basically how everyone records handheld nintendo games these days if they havent been ported to a later system
Everyone I know who doesn’t like the early gens wasn’t around to play them when they came out. In the context of being a kid when the games released gold and silver had amazing post games. When you don’t expect much after the elite four and then you get the whole gen one region to travel through and 8 extra gym battles it’s really cool. Then you get a battle with red that has level 80 Pokémon. No one saw that coming. It was mind blowing.
It was a tradition for me when reaching Kanto to go face Brock first and lastly Blue before facing Lt. Surge... Best tradition I always follow whenever I replayed Crystal version. Memories
17:19 It is literally impossible on every existing physical level to read that sign from any other side than above, so >your< only possible right side is exactly where the item is, no issues here
I just now realized I could have had someone make a team of all Blissey on LV, then do a Mystery Gift. Boom. Easy exp. I mean 6 Blissey would be a lot to get but still.
As a 10 year old in 2000, huge Pokémon fan who still recalls how incredible Red was in 98 to play. The fact that after I beat Gold I could go revisit and play gen 1 again but remixed was crazy. I still recall being like WHAT. Nowadays that kind of content would have been spoiled or leaked or seen in a TH-cam video. It was such a cool moment that was hidden you had no idea especially playing upon release. Most dev’s never would have done it, letting you revisit the first game fighting ‘you’ even fitting that game on the cartridge after they had to do witchcraft to even get red/blue working. Such a damn cool moment and few games have done that in my 30 years playing since
Exactly! Jeeze. It sold so well for a reason. Example: If you got a houndoom early, what reason would there be for you to keep looking for one? It enhances replayability and trading with friends. There are way too many harsh critics of this game. While there are definitely some things that can be addressed(same with any game), it seems unfair, disrespectful and dishonest to call it out as being bad or lacking a vision. I'd love to play the legacy rom hacks of this game but it's hard when they say over and over "this is how it should've been".
The people who wanted Houndoom early only look at the Johto games from Falkner to Lance. These are the only Pokémon games with two regions and sixteen gyms. However, they play the Johto games as if they only had one region and eight gyms. Players who want to catch Houndour in Johto wonder why using a strong Pokémon with STAB Dark and Fire Type moves to defeat half of the Johto gym leaders, Silver, and half of the Pokémon used by the Elite Four is not an option unless they trade in a Houndour egg in the early game.
It's that crawl from the last 2 gyms to the elite 4. It's not easy, and the ones that have to crawl didn't grind or rebattle trainers. Yes, getting calls is annoying at times when it's not a battle or Joey talking about his rattata. But it made getting experience easier. Not to mention team building is key. Sure you can get away with Lugia or hoho as a 6th spot. But getting a Typlosion, Lapras, Ampharos, Herracross, and an Alakazam is all you need. Tm moves for the types your team lacks, and the elemental punches on a kadabra/alakazam. This way of taking on Kanto is def unique, I'll have to do it on my next playthrough of either g/s or hg/SS. Or on crystal if I ever find a good deal on one.
Could always use false swipe to catch lower lvl pokemon. Basically, a pokemon that can have false swipe, a sleep move with decent pp, a recovery move and a move to prevent wild pokemon from running (this i achieved with a smeargle) makes catching lower lvl much easier.
I, for one, never hated GSC post game. Never. Sure the levels are basically what they were in RBY, but I actually think that choice let you flex your now champion pokemon even more! Lol The only thing really frustrating when I was a kid was having no safari zone. No viridian forest, ghost tower or power plant, as well as an empty cinnabar island were a bummer but understandable.
The fact some people think of this post game as bad is crazy to me. These games are the only ones to let you go to another region, it let's you fight all their gym leaders and collect their badges, catch the other games box art legendary pokemon, and lets you fight your character from the first game as a secret final boss. Honestly I wish a lot more Pokemon games made their post games like this!
None of that really matters if it's all really boring to actually do. Gen 4 and gen 5 post-games easily do a lot more to please imo. Emerald, ORAS, and Gen 7 are pretty good too actually.
I just found the channel and I love it. Seeing things from a game devs eye and the little hints and items that are placed to teach and help you in an organic way is something often over looked by a lot of people in their rush to just bull head their way through a game. They forget the craft that went into to making said game.
I literally planned on doing this exact same thing in Pokémon Silver post game. I started my initial playthrough about 2 months ago, just started postgame about three weeks ago but haven’t had time to play it. I only beat Janine in Fuchsia City so far. I didn’t plan a route like you did, just gym members in a slightly different order, but naturally the way I am taking is the same as yours. I am just about to get to the power plant, this way feels like the intended way to go about the game even if at first it feels weird passing up battling the first three towns with gyms in them. My order is going to be (because of their highest leveled Pokémon), Janine (venemoth 39), Brock (onix 44), Lt Surge (electabuzz 45), Erica (bellossom 46), Misty (starmie 47), Sabrina (48) , Blane (50) ,Blue (58) Still though, ruining Misty’s date only to leave her waiting in a line of other gym battles feels satisfyingly slightly evil 🙃
Yeah, you nailed it at the end: as I kid I honestly never expected ALL of the Gen 1 game to be included when you visit Kanto. What we got is what felt right and it was still fun to go around and revisit all the old areas to see what had changed. But as I mentioned in another comment on your videos, when I say "as a kid" what I mean is "as a 14 yo" which was old enough to know better, whereas most pokemon fans from the era were younger and I can see how they'd have that expectation.
TBH, I think it's BECAUSE the postgame is so good that it's flaws stand out. The level curve and unavailability of new pokemon really compound here, extending the "boring" sections of the game making the good parts minor by time comparison. Want a Houndor, Murkrow, Slugma, Chinchou, Misdrevus, Pupatar, Sneasel, Porygon 2, Tyrouge ect. ? Postgame or waterfall required! The level curve dosen't help either cuz when you FINALLY catch the mon, it's lvl 20-ish. Your team is in it's 40-50s. Ya gotta re-grind that mon to your teams level on incredibly low level wild pokemon and limited rematches. I love GSC and HGSS's postgame, but the poor level curve and pokemon avalibilityy make the postgame feel significantly worse than it actually is due to compounding issues.
Yes! I think they actually did a good job _within Johto_ of keeping the levels flat in a way that rewards changing up your team. But as I showed here, you have time for ONE swap in Kanto, which if you spend the entire time Exp-sharing it, it will be ready for Blue.
As a kid playing silver, I had no idea there was a post game. When I got to Kanto I was blown away that I got to reexperience blue version. But it was even better because I felt like all my childhood struggles with certain parts of blue were made easier because I have new gen pokemon. Got revenge on Brock and felt great
Writing down their entire move sets and planning your run around it lets you play at a pretty low level! Getting Red at 50 was more impressive to me personally :)
In Pokemon Gold unlike most other moder gen games there is actual days in week, time that matches real time, pokemon that appear an night, events based on day in week, headbutt trees for special pokemon etc. While lets say in Emerald, its like time stopped.
Hm... it's interesting how you had to work to beat Lt. Surge. For me, all the gym leaders here are an easy time, except for Blue. And it occurs to me, you're at a lower level than I normally am by the time I get into the postgame. And that's likely because I tend to grind for the Elite Four. 25:41 Fan theory: the two clefaries are actually the humans who were running the store (or maybe the humans are actually the clefaries), as the humans are not around during the night.
I remember staying up late to beat the elite four in Silver version one night, game boy light attachment putting in work while I was playing under the covers. I stayed up until almost 4 AM just because I freaked out when I walked into Kanto (not that I knew what it was called at the time) and then realized they put the entire map from the first game there, I lost my mind. Coolest thing ever.
What are you on?! Bad post game?! Everyone was SUPER stoked when we learned we could go to Kanto. You have no idea. No other pokemon game ever came close post game.
(Ji)Mothy I watched two whole ads for you for this video. One for FB and one for some mobile game. Know I appreciate what you do but this was torture to my adhd
slugma balls
Nailed it
gg well played
Pee is stored in the Voltorbs
King
Theyr2 meant to be slug like
The coolest moment in the post game is going up Mt. Silver, seeing no other trainers around the outside, the inside, anywhere. And then you get to the last room and see Red. And rather than say anything, he just goes straight to the battle. Your eyes met. You both know what time it is.
Then you hear the crazy music, see level EIGHTY ONE and realize how serious they are taking it 💀
TIMEE TO FCKKKK
To me it's seeing Kanto in color. Mind you, I was a kid when I had this game and we got it right after Red and Yellow. Just the fact that it's there at all is a huge mind f-ck when youre used to playing Pokemon games that usually have a single region.
Mt Silver is special though. Probably my 2nd fondest memory of the post game is that little area and finding the secret boss.
I mean it was huge mind fuck period. Games at the time were very small and very focused, often being beaten in an afternoon. To have a full length rpg that surprised players with a post game that teased at doubling its content was something else for the time.
it's such an intense moment. i don't quite know how to explain that feeling, but child me was both scared and excited to battle against red. i still remember the nostalgia and shock i felt seeing red use some of the pokemon _i_ used in yellow version.
While Gen 2 has its faults, *NOTHING* will ever top being able to play through Kanto again and battling all the Gym Leaders as well as the old Rival and protagonist of the first game. This generation is special.
That is why I rank it to number one it made fun and nostalgic. They should do it again
@easportslegend they did, it's called HeartGold/SoulSilver. Now, if you mean they should do another remake of it just remember that BD/SP exists and hope they aren't that lazy again.
It was like a game within a game, it didn’t make sense. Ruby/emerald is my personal fav but I remember the end game ,little me running around trying to figure out a way to go back to Gold. I just assumed that was the natural order of things 😢
Narrative wise it's my favorite gen. But the execution of Kanto (the trainers being weaker than elite4) and the new pokemon barely appearing are why it's not my favorite gameplay wise
@@ChrisVicious I'm pretty sure they meant "do it again" as in have another game go back to explore an old region (especially now with pokemon going full 3D) rather than literally replicating G/S again.
I cant believe that there are people that legitimately believe gold and silver post game is bad
GS set the bar for post games for me. I still hope for the same quality in new games (and hope for an additional region)
@@Tryingtogetradical When played gen 3 for the first time as kid, not having johto and kanto to revisit seriously disappointed me
@@AndreaGrippi I'm hoping that Nintendo decides to put all 9 previous regions in the Gen 10 postgame on Switch 2
IMO, the problem is that people have a speedrun mindset these days. Just check any pokemon content available on youtube. How fast can X pokemon beat the game, or nuzlockes where every detail is planned in advance etc. Gen 2 was clearly designed to be played a few hours every day. With events only available on different days and times of day, rematching trainers from phone calls, etc.
The level curve that everyone loves to complain about isn't a big deal if you are taking phone calls and rematching old trainers and doing all the optional exploration. Also, remember the slogan was still "gotta catch 'em all" in gen 2. The weaker trainers in the Kanto are an amazing way to actually use weaker pokemon who otherwise would only get switch trained or given an exp share. Actually using the underused pokemon and level them up to evolve when filling the pokedex makes for a great change of pace.
So, am I saying people who complain are playing the game wrong? Yes, I am.
@@danielgloyd4529 This has been a big problem with Animal Crossing too.
The first few games everyone just played a couple hours every day and it made sense. Everyone loved it and played the same save file for years and years.
Now people play Animal Crossing by constantly changing their clock on the Switch AND ALSO complain that you run out of content too fast!
I can't fault Kanto being mostly empty because it's a miracle they managed to fit as much as they did in addition to the entire Johto region. There isn't really much to do, aside from catching some new pokemon that are way too low level for most players to bother using, but there is novelty in being able to return to the region of the previous game and see how things have changed, and it was even more novel when the game first came out.
What I can fault them is the bad level curve, though. And if there was supposed to be an intended order to fight the gym leaders, it really makes no sense to have you land in Vermillion and be immediately able to fight Surge if he wasn't designed to be the first. Just have his gym be locked until you complete some story event, instead of letting players face him first and then finding some of the subsequent gym leaders trivial because their teams are at lower level than Surge's. Needing out of game information and planning just to play the postgame gym quest in a way that feels sensible is clearly not good design.
I honestly don't mind the openness of the second half of Johto and then all of Kanto. Being able to choose where to go next, and actually being able to do so, makes the adventure truly feel like your own, and not the same curated Disneyland tour everyone else takes on. It certainly would be nicer if the trainers had higher levels to sort of hint which order is suggested like Zelda 1's dungeons, however, you'd still run into being stronger than your opponents at some point. Cause if you're already strong enough to take on even the hinted 1st leader, but decide to choose your own adventure and do them out of order, you'll power up more and make the other ones easier, just like Zelda 1's dungeons.
In Zelda 1, you can do Levels 1, 2 and 3 in any order, no holds barred. Of course the later ones feature slightly stronger enemies than the former, but if you're skillful enough, you can finish Level 3 first. Getting the heart container there and coming back to any of the first two dungeons means you now have more health than if you did either of them first. You can also walk straight to Level 6 and pick up the magic wand before any of the dungeons, if you really wanted to. It's possible for the orange Wizzrobes to 1-shot you this early in the game, but that's a risk a skilled player can take.
I firmly believe Pokemon should be of similar design; how can you call it an adventure if you're not allowed to take risks and choose your own path.
@@tamerkoh What's your opinion on Scarlet and Violet? Based on your reply here, especially that last sentence, I think you'd really like them.
@@archerestarcher Imagine if Scarlet and Violet included all of Galar in its postgame
@@cleverman383 That would've been interesting, though if they were to have included a full entire region it would've probably been Kalos, since Spain and France physically touch in the real world.
I was more just talking about how the person said they like being able to take risks and choose their own path, so I was curious what they thought of Scarlet and Violet based on that.
It makes no sense that you're still fighting Pokemon that barely crack level 20 by the time of you reach Clair.
Also I get that adding kanto alone was impressive, but it doesn't excuse how bad it was executed. Also locking a non negligible amount of Johto Pokemon to Kanto, let alone mount silver (cough cough larvitar) is really stupid, and technical limitations don't excuse that. I say this as someone that actually likes gen 2, it's faults are really hard to excuse at times. I do get tired of people saying this was the first time for a lot of things as a crutch to excuse bad game design.
That Calcium _is_ to the left of the sign, if you take into account the direction your character is facing while reading it.
Wait people think the post game is bad? This shit blew our minds over 20 years ago.
"Wait people think the post game is bad?"
Only on Reddit/Twitter where kids listen to TH-camrs spouting lies without zero fact checking
The inclusion of a second region was great to have, however the level curve in the Kanto region was hot garbage. The wild pokemon on all routes should have been in the mid thirties to early fourties and the trainers pokemon should have been in the mid fifties (with the gym leaders in the low to mid 60s). Just one shotting most of the pokemon there gets really boring really fast.
The post game is bad in terms of the leveling curve. Trainers are too weak and wild Pokémon are way too low lv
It’s garbage and the fact some Johto Pokémon can only be found on Kanto like Slugma, Houndour and Murkrow, which lore wise make zero sense
The idea of Kanto is great, the implementation was trash
@@aceclover758 "and the fact some Johto Pokémon can only be found on Kanto like Slugma, Houndour and Murkrow"
Never become a game designer
If they were all in Johto you fuckers would complain that there's nothing in Kanto
And also, there weren't Generations when GSC released, they were just new Pokemon and not Gen 2 Pokemon
@@brandonlangley1009 you didnt notice any of that when the game was new and you were 9 years old at the time. If you dont remember how you felt landing in kanto and going through the entire game and how magical that was at the time, then you are probably one of those reddit/twitter kids the previous comment is mentioning. Objectively, yes, its hot garbage having the pokemon be such low level in kanto as a post game area, buta s a kid, when it mattered, it was a fantastic experience. Everyone had a gameboy, and a lot of kids would battle each other during recess or after school. It was how i completed my pokedex. Loser trades whatever pokemon winner wanted. Yall dont have that experience today, so it seems trash. Back then, though, we had reasons to catch the rare dark pokemon just to show off to your friends, or raise the new pokemon to battle your friends and counter their team with a houndour because they dont know how low the chance is to actually catch one. Doing things like raising pokemon with egg moves to trade with your friends. It was a different time back then, and kids these days will never enjoy the original games the way they were meant to. I highly reccomend yall play the DS remakes, Heartgold and Soulsilver. As someone who literally am the 9 year old in this scenario, the remakes were fantastic and had a ton of quality of life changes that brought it to modern game design.
As a child, it's existence itself was a beautiful treat that we didn't deserve.
I felt this too. I was beyond amazed when I found out not only was johto connected to Kanto but you could also VISIT KANTO? it was wonderful being (slightly) older remembering my first pokemon game. The fact that you could experience that was more than I could imagine when playing crystal for the first time. Magical they let us to do that.
Amen to that , I legit lost my mind when we took our first step in Kanto then saw the map
>we didn’t deserve
Stfu plebbitor. Go back, take your cringe millennial catchphrases with you.
I absolutely deserved it
Ikr??? Idk why people have an issue with it.
Knocking out that Lugia instead of catching it hurt my soul 😢
In another world, he would have knocked out a Ho-Oh to break your heart
@@Mike_Ka-Chowskii see what you did there
I think the end game suffers from the fact that the “railroad” they put you on is NOT obvious at all. I love the order you did things in, and I will be trying this, but nobody can know to do this order on their first play-through, and that’s the issue. Great video, man!
Oh, that's odd. I didn't know people thought the post game was bad. All of my friends still say Gold and Silver were the best, back in the day. Sure, looking at it now, it seems limited. But back then, it felt like they'd put nearly the entirety of Red and Blue into our new games and it was a shock when it happened. We had no idea there was gonna be a return to Kanto, so maybe the rose colored glasses have kept it nice in my mind. Playing the Crystal Clear romhack a lot also colors my perception though, I'll admit. lol
"Oh, that's odd. I didn't know people thought the post game was bad."
That's the neat thing: they don't.
It's very underwhelming besides red.
It was not a remotely popular opinion until the past few years where people decided to look back at these games "in retrospect"(aka without context for the limitations of when and how they were made). This kind of dissatisfaction with the older games is also peddled pretty aggressively by a certain Poketuber who decided one of the mainstays of their channel would be rom-hacking older Pokemon games in order to "fix" them.
@@Seiyol Pretty much anyone that remembers the game fondly thinks very highly of it. Pretty much anyone that plays gen2 with any frequency thinks it's bad. The gym leaders are just pathetic. Janine is probably the worst offender, with pokemon as low as level 33. Brock's entire team is quad weak to grass, and are just bad in general. Over half of his team isn't even fully evolved, and this is, again, post-game content. There's literally only one competent leader, meaning every battle is a joke until suddenly you get really good battles with Blue, then Red. Seven wasted gyms, a rocket subplot in which you are required to battle 0 rockets, and a boatload of nostalgia.
@@TotallyCluelessGamer That's a pretty cheap shot to take at other people that make romhacks. You can like these games and still admit more could have been done with them. No need to get catty.
What I find the most impressive about the post game of gen 2 is a techincal aspect: the entire game is only ~2MBs of data. Yes, Megabytes. How did they fit so much stuff in only 2 MBs??!
People need to stop looking at this through a modern lens: when you where 10 year old and have no idea Kanto was in the game, well it was simply mind blowing. 🌋
True....i was wandering around Johto then for whatever reason i remembered that right next to your house is water you could surf. The rest is history.
Especially compared to the basically non-existent post game of Red/Blue/Yellow.
@@SimonFrack
Non existent post game in any other generation except 5th.
How can anyone call the dumb battle towers post game? That's just a boring gauntlet.
@@Gatitasecsii The only thing with any real longevity for a single save file. Replay value is insane plus it offers an actual challenge. That is why people love them.
@@Gatitasecsii This. Battling difficult NPC trainers is okay but gets old really quick, plus you have to grind the shit out of it just to get any rewards. I'd much rather have the bonus adventure that the gen 2 games offered
I saw the Japanese copies of Gold/Silver locked behind glass in an American store a few months before the English version release as a kid and the magic feeling of that moment has never been matched since.
'False Swipe' is a move Scythers can learn that cannot damage an opponent below 1hp, it is indispensable for capturing and not killing low level pokemon.
Useful for the whole game. Plus a pokemon with a sleep or paralysis move
Weird to think of Red as this 13 year old badass who lives alone on a mountain with his Pokemon and Professor Oak is just like "Look, there's this crazy kid up there; I try to keep people away but you have 16 gym badges so can you 'take care' of him for us?"
Analysis of Gen 2’s postgame requires so much context - yes, 20 some years later, there are some glaring issues. At the time of its release? This was a pretty profound inclusion especially when you consider how bare the Gen 1 games were after beating the elite four. I think that’s why you see such a vast difference in perception of Gen 2 amongst players of different ages. Younger players who weren’t there to experience it in real time will never understand the excitement and aesthetic and vibes back then.
Totally. And without internet, we didn't know how much game there still was.
Even looking at it now, it's clear many issues came from a single choice to make Kanto feel accurate rather than to make it fit in with the existing level curve. Beefing up the trainers, OR giving another ~2 ways to grind, would have gone quite far to help it.
@@ji_mothy if the VS seeker had come out 1 generation sooner, GSC would’ve had a real argument as the best games in the series lol
Taking temporal context into account when reviewing an early entry in a long-running series? Blasphemy!!
It was also shocking for memory reason. red and blue already were cramming a lot of stuff in for a gameboy game and somehow gold and silver had like... two games? almost double the number of pokemon, better sprites and colors, just, more more more, a lot more stuff. Nowadays it's not really a limiting factor anymore, but at the time it really shown great care to work around these limitation to bring in as much content as possible (mentality which has had pretty bad repercussions later down the line on game design philosophy but lead to very cool moments at the time).
And even as kids we were really aware of the limitations of the games we were playing. Like, even materially, when you play red and blue with a cartridge you realize quickly it's held by duct tape and a prayer, when you have to blow in your cartridge to dislodge some dust so that the game boots properly for exemple. So even if we weren't fully aware of the behind the scenes of how everything works it was still pretty clear what was technically impressive and what wasn't.
Nowadays it feels more blurry and some high tech feats can be to be able to do an effect without needing a lot of worker while something can look impressive and just be the result of one hundred people crunching to death. And there aren't that many game design decision guided by technical limitations anymore. (at least not as a primary factor).
Not saying those technical limitations were good, but yeah it's really important to understand the context and the wonder something like that has generated.
@@colevitiritto8976 it has the battle tower and some other stuff like that. It's still directly inferior to HGSS but having grown up with GSC I still prefer them
Johto really does have some comfy ass tunes on its OST doesn't it?
The OST is very strong. And WAY longer than you remember. It's like 90 tracks
It does one of my favorite ones is the Pokémon Lullaby
Not a comfy song per se but Dragon’s Den goes hard too
People don't like the post game? Was the best post game experience I've ever had. I remember not knowing about Kanto after 2 full Johto playthroughs in Crystal and it now my mind as a kid.
I've never understood the hate the Kanto post game got. Even then I understood that Kanto was an extra area, a nostalgic return.
My favorite aspect of Post Kanto is how the physical limitations made Kanto into a You can never go home story
Kanto remains familiar but forever changed by time, in a way it really helped me understand Tajiri's sense of loss of his old rural stomping grounds.
Yeah it's like a free DLC that gives you a chance to experience Red/blue version to a lesser degree. First time I played the game I didn't use a guide/walkthrough so the Kanto region is a welcome surprise for me. People complaining are clowns.
There is a reason us old heads like GSC.
They didn't have enough room to fit the whole of Kanto however.
I think hindsight has been the only thing to hurt Gen 2's postgame. At the time of release, it was something no one even expected, something extremely exciting that we kept BEGGING to have come back in subsequent Gens--so much so that rumors circulated with each new gen that we would get to go back to this region, or that region. Now in Gens 8 and 9 where we get to unlock new areas/regions in the form of DLC, going to Kanto feels dated and, as already stated, empty.
But it's still a fun experience as it is, and still a pretty big achievement for its time, considering future gens on the handheld console couldn't come close to accomplishing it. I still think it's the best postgame of the handheld console era.
if pokemon gold was released with today's modern "video game standards". it would be a $60 digital game and the kanto postgame would be a $30 dlc with the last 4 gym leaders being $$$ dlc unlockable gym battles
the fact people complain about gold/silvers's postgame baffles me. it had some stuff that was questionable but the fact they could even fit all of that in the gameboy game cart with its memory size limitations was beyond impressive
My only issue with the post game of Johto is that it locks out content from the main game. I cannot use stone evolutions until i beat the game and make it to celadon. If it didn't mess up my fun with the main game, I would consider it a 10/10
Was also not a fan, in gen 2 specifically, that the radio card was optional. Had to go all the way back to jubilife to wake up the snorlax. But that's because I started johto with the 4th Gen, and I didn't even think about it
@@masoncasey9353 I assume by Jubilife you meant Goldenrod, but easy to mistake honestly, considering they both feature in gen 4 games and fill broadly similar roles XD. I agree the potential for missing the radio card in a casual playthrough is unfortunate, both for the reason you describe and several others. For one it's straight up intended as a core feature of the 'Pokegear' and missing it almost makes a redundancy of this extra menu. Another is the intertwining of the radio mechanic with the Rocket takeover narrative - probably one of the most memorable moments I've had playing a pokemon game was of hearing the news of strange radio signals, turning my radio on, and discovering for myself that Team Rocket really had taken over all the channels.
Probably because the game designer is assuming you are using the Time Machine to trade with Gen 1 for stone Evolutions.
@@kutless45This was definitely the case originally because Bill’s grandfather only gives you one stone of each type in Gold and Silver. This was fixed in Crystal, where he gives you a stone every time you show him the correct Pokémon. Trainers who give you a stone if you exchange numbers were also added.
The Kanto experience was the first time in my entire life I recognized the feeling of nostalgia. I didn't know there was a word for the feeling but I felt it. I do wish it wasn't such a cakewalk but it's honestly not a dealbreaker for me. I just think it's so impactful to see the progression of the in-game world over time and see what has changed. It's a simple thing but so effective. This is a fantastic video, and I love your philosophy with which you make your videos that you stated in the intro. I'm subbed :)
I think a lot more kids used the post game correctly and had a lot of fun creating new teams and crafting their own narratives for them. Unfortunately, the incentive to do this isn't exactly strong enough to convince more extrinsically motivated players to play in this way.
I think the GS post game is in an interesting spot where it is beloved by many, but the conversation around it doesn't often include these people because most of them aren't the kind of people to be so concerned
Amen! Crafting new teams is a big part of the experience I didn't touch on here, since my style still did need me to be goal focused on Red. All of us back in 2000 were plenty happy with this part of the game as a large unexpected bonus.
were you intoxicated when you made this pointless comment?
@@balthasargerard7246 🦐
@@balthasargerard7246"I am insecure and need attention"
@@balthasargerard7246if you consider a comment pointless (which i'd contest here given this is a relevant anecdote expressing this person's feelings on the subject of the video), surely there are better uses of your time and energy than responding to it in a totally non-constructive manner?
17:18 The sign doesn't say "on the east side". It says "on the left side" and you can only read it from above. So the item is, in fact, to the left of the sign for every non-fourth-dimensional being reading the sign..
Ah, I was worried no one else would defend the sign's honor
The dude with the lvl 12 Pidgey actually gives you a tip on how to train low level pokemons against stronger foes, so it's not as weird as it first seems.
I'm in the process of 100%ing gen 2 (so Stadium 2 included) and just got Blue's badge today, which means Red is the only thing that's left. I have to say... the problem I have with the postgame is that it fails to take advantage of the things that make Johto great. Kanto proper is completely devoid of daily events, not a single berry tree or Pokegear trainer or anything else. When you're in the heart of Johto, after beating Whitney, that's the sweetspot and peak of the game. You have a bit of freedom but not too much to where it feels like there's nothing to do. And you have a reason to check in every day for daily stuff, even if you aren't planning on making story progress. You have a ton of daily trees, trainers, Bug Contest, etc available to you. Once I progressed past that point to Radio Tower and beyond, it felt like the game got thinner and thinner on content, and the level curve also drops off at this point. Kanto is that problem to an extreme. It really just feels like they ran out of time on this game, and it's a big shame...
I guess they put in two Steel Wing TMs because technically the Rock Tunnel is optional. Whenever I played Gold and Silver, I avoided going through the Rock Tunnel purely because I didn't like getting lost in there in Red, Blue and Yellow and saw that I could just ignore it entirely since nothing blocks you from getting to either of the towns it connected to originally.
So glad you made this video Mothy! I started out playing Pokemon with these games, so they've always had a special place in my heart. I've always been aware that there were flaws, but they weren't ever enough for me to not love every aspect of the games. These pair of videos you created really helped highlight all of the great things in these games, while also taking the time to acknowledge the flaws that came along with them. Thanks for making great content, I'm looking forward to your next video!
If the Kanto gym's were pumped up 10 - 20 levels it would be the most perfect endgame in Pokemon history.
I still love the idea of going back to sweep Kanto then fighting Red, but man, even Blue is just a scrub if you have even the most basically built up team and that will always be sad to me.
I feel like the Kanto experience only turned out like it did because they had no choice but to send us to vermillion first.
I also don't mind that they decided to send us a different route than the original RBY, because it would've felt redundand to just go from Pallet through to Cinnabar.
But i agree that Lt. Surge should've been the lowest level Kanto Leader. The curve could've been something like Surge, Sabrina, Misty, Erika, Janine, with Blue/Blaine and Brock all being on a similar difficulty as final 3 options.
Brock, Gen1s easiest Gymleader being one of the hardest one is also just a fun idea.
Shuffling the levels they gave to each leader would have been smart, yeah. They have all trained since gen 1; no reason they need to have all trained proportionate amounts. Brock and Misty are young, they could have been made powerful gym leaders. Strong Brock would have been legendary
The level curve is silly, the battles are a joke but.. G/S postgame is pure asthetic kino and I love every second of it
the whole game is peak pokemon vibes and aesthetics tbh
Gens 2 and 4 have the best aesthetic imo. Not been topped yet
8:08 fun fact: Cycling Road has Slugma too. It is definitely located in Gen 2
THANK you. The postgame moment where you realise this is YOUR quest YOU decide to do in YOUR way was years ahead of its time and a lot of people just weren't ready for it. The player fight also has one of the best final boss tracks in gaming and really feels like it caps off the the GB/GBC era perfectly.
I didn’t even know people didn’t like the post game for Gold/Silver it was a great experience and the nostalgia
I will forever be grateful to god,for making me play pokemon crystal in my childhood,i had so many good memories with it.
15:33 I was surprised to hear this mentioned. To those who don't know, this is an example of a graph that is Semi-Eulerian, meaning that a trail exists that passes through all edges without repetition that ends at opposite odd vertices (odd vertices appear in pairs as a result of the Handshaking Lemma). In a discussion about the Seven Bridges of Königsberg, Euler discussed a problem similar to this one. The paper was actually the first in the field of Graph Theory. He also found that a path could exist through all edges, without repetition, while ending at the vertex of origin if the number of edges connected to each vertex was even. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
They charged me college tuition to learn this once and here you are in the yt comments giving it away 🤦🏻♂️
@@ji_mothy I actually just learned that stuff last semester in my Discrete Mathematical Modeling class. Now I'm going to grad school for my PHD in Applied Mathematics this upcoming semester.
17:24 It might be to the right of the sign from our perspective - but remember, the CHARACTER is looking south, reading the sign. Meaning from the characters perspective, they need to move east, which is to their left. So the sign is correct in-universe (as how it should be).
I thought it was coolest thing ever riding the ship as a kid to a new area
I agree, i think ppl give the “post game”(not really the post game itself but the level curvature) a bad rep bc its one of the few things wrong w the games. Granted there are things wrong with all games even great ones, but I mean, at least speaking in this context, as a “real” issue. Bc its honestly not that big of a deal
4:56 "For now, steal a Full Heal from his bush."
Is that what they call it now?
Getting a whole old area to explore with nostalgia and a new area with f**king Red at the end?! Loved it.
Only vad thing was that they locked 4 new mons in Kanto/Mt. Silver
Yeah I'm convinced people that talk shit about Jhoto's post game are just zoomers that didn't live through that era and are looking for things to complain about. Going from gen one where you get your ass booted back to Pallet town to gen 2 where you get your entire map doubled was fucking incredible. Imagine being 11 years old and you finally brute Force your way through the elite four and beat the game and they're like btw you can go back to Pokemon red and blue now too!
You would be very wrong about that.
Even if this was true, great game design is timeless. It should be just as fun to a newcomer as someone who was a child in the 90's.
I literally just finished watching your first Gold/Silver video after it was recommended to me! What a fun, elegant surprise.
why did you spell out Saturday around @2:55 ..?? i hope there isnt some "youtube automated flagging" against the word saturday
Yeah wtf 😂
I binged all of your Pokemon videos in the last few days and what a pleasant surprise to see this in my feed the day after I finished! I love the look at content that most people skip over. High quality stuff, looking forward to whatever you do next.
17:20 dunno if it was mentioned before, but from your characters perspective the hidden item is on the left side
was gonna leave the same comment but i guess I'll just reply here and like your comment
I had to pause 13 minutes in because I had to check that Berserk Gene was real. Wild stuff!
You are very well-spoken and insightful for a grown man who 100%'s old pokemon games
Did 2 years in radio and 10 years in corporate 😅 now we doing things for me. Glad you are enjoying.
@@ji_mothy that's awesome you did radio!
@@ji_mothy2 years in radio sounds so fucking cool ngl (even if in reality it was probably just A Job:tm:)
@@ji_mothy Good stuff! With your delivery i'm not surprised you have Radio experience.
However, Not to sound obnoxious, but I would like to offer a small amount of criticism. Not sure if it bothered other people, but the close-up radio style recording introduced alot of plosive popping and it was a bit much for me.
Did love the video though bud.
@@ji_mothyjust curious…..in the 10 corporate years were you able to payoff your mortgage and car loan in order to launch a TH-cam channel? Or do you do other work like own a business now?
Ngl, as someone who played gold when it came out, I had no idea people didn't like the post-game. Thought it was dope. No one I knew complained about it
Been following these since the Dark Souls videos. It's such a treat to see this approach applied to my childhood favorite game. :)
Really been digging your Pokemon videos....it's been a serious trip down memory lane. You've really been nailing it!
Honestly, I'd love to do some Pokemon content someday....🤔
hi JK!! Happy you're enjoying :D I definitely threw my subs for a loop when I picked up pokemon content but I'm happy I ended up here! Now how to complete pokemon with knives only...
Been watching since the Dark souls route videos and I just wanna say I love your channel! I'm so glad to see you taking the idea and applying it to other games, it's been a real blast!
Thank you for sticking around! Pokemon is such fun to make, it's gonna give whiplash when I go back for Sekiro 😵💫
@ji_mothy ahhh sekiro, my favorite rhythm game
New mothy!!!
I never knew about the postgame as a kid? Like... I learned about it during a GDQ run a few years ago! 😅
I've been meaning to replay Gold/Silver ever since.
Who's "we" (in response to the thumbnail)? I've always adored the hell out of Gen 2's post game. Revisiting Kanto was such a pleasant surprise. I didn't have the vocabulary then, but it was oddly nostalgic, if you can even possess nostalgia for something just a few years after experiencing it for the first time.
12:19 I’m surprised you didn’t just give Tuna Baby an Everstone to eliminate manually canceling the evolution, especially since you get one after Togepi hatches from Prof. Elm.
It didn't bother me having it separated into two videos. I think it worked fantastic and I'm definitely looking forward to more videos I know you probably won't do all the Pokemon in a row but do you plan on going through all of them eventually?
Id say so! Not sure if I have a good way to record the DS ones so I might bounce forward to Switch games eventually
@@ji_mothy I know it's not technically as intended but I would suggest an emulator. I believe some of the emulators even support Link cable Trading if that is required at any point
@@McLovinModsEmulators are, to the best of my knowledge, basically how everyone records handheld nintendo games these days if they havent been ported to a later system
The safari zone and cinebar being gone were sad.
Everyone I know who doesn’t like the early gens wasn’t around to play them when they came out. In the context of being a kid when the games released gold and silver had amazing post games. When you don’t expect much after the elite four and then you get the whole gen one region to travel through and 8 extra gym battles it’s really cool. Then you get a battle with red that has level 80 Pokémon. No one saw that coming. It was mind blowing.
I played this when it was released and the postgame was mindblowing, like an aunt gifting you 500 dollars in your birthday
I don't want to even think about the horrors of that Rapidash/Pikachu mating ritual
That sign saying the item was left makes sense, from the player's perspective the calcium was left when they were facing the sign and reading it lol
It was a tradition for me when reaching Kanto to go face Brock first and lastly Blue before facing Lt. Surge... Best tradition I always follow whenever I replayed Crystal version. Memories
17:19 It is literally impossible on every existing physical level to read that sign from any other side than above, so >your< only possible right side is exactly where the item is, no issues here
The post game was beautiful and breathtaking in the context of its time.
Forretress! My absolute favorite Pokemon, Knife is perfect.
I just now realized I could have had someone make a team of all Blissey on LV, then do a Mystery Gift.
Boom. Easy exp. I mean 6 Blissey would be a lot to get but still.
I used to watch Scykoh as a kid and you kinda sound like him. Great video!
As a 10 year old in 2000, huge Pokémon fan who still recalls how incredible Red was in 98 to play. The fact that after I beat Gold I could go revisit and play gen 1 again but remixed was crazy. I still recall being like WHAT. Nowadays that kind of content would have been spoiled or leaked or seen in a TH-cam video. It was such a cool moment that was hidden you had no idea especially playing upon release. Most dev’s never would have done it, letting you revisit the first game fighting ‘you’ even fitting that game on the cartridge after they had to do witchcraft to even get red/blue working. Such a damn cool moment and few games have done that in my 30 years playing since
Omg Mothy video!! How have I not seen this yet!!!
I can't wait!
Exactly! Jeeze. It sold so well for a reason.
Example: If you got a houndoom early, what reason would there be for you to keep looking for one? It enhances replayability and trading with friends.
There are way too many harsh critics of this game. While there are definitely some things that can be addressed(same with any game), it seems unfair, disrespectful and dishonest to call it out as being bad or lacking a vision.
I'd love to play the legacy rom hacks of this game but it's hard when they say over and over "this is how it should've been".
The people who wanted Houndoom early only look at the Johto games from Falkner to Lance. These are the only Pokémon games with two regions and sixteen gyms. However, they play the Johto games as if they only had one region and eight gyms. Players who want to catch Houndour in Johto wonder why using a strong Pokémon with STAB Dark and Fire Type moves to defeat half of the Johto gym leaders, Silver, and half of the Pokémon used by the Elite Four is not an option unless they trade in a Houndour egg in the early game.
It's that crawl from the last 2 gyms to the elite 4. It's not easy, and the ones that have to crawl didn't grind or rebattle trainers.
Yes, getting calls is annoying at times when it's not a battle or Joey talking about his rattata. But it made getting experience easier.
Not to mention team building is key. Sure you can get away with Lugia or hoho as a 6th spot. But getting a Typlosion, Lapras, Ampharos, Herracross, and an Alakazam is all you need. Tm moves for the types your team lacks, and the elemental punches on a kadabra/alakazam.
This way of taking on Kanto is def unique, I'll have to do it on my next playthrough of either g/s or hg/SS. Or on crystal if I ever find a good deal on one.
Could always use false swipe to catch lower lvl pokemon. Basically, a pokemon that can have false swipe, a sleep move with decent pp, a recovery move and a move to prevent wild pokemon from running (this i achieved with a smeargle) makes catching lower lvl much easier.
4:56 - "For now, steal a Full Heal from his bush."
No idea why he would keep one in there.
Well, where do you store your Full Heals? Because I can’t think of many better places to
25:15 To be fair; red, blue and yellow did let you use your box-art pokemon for the entire game too! It just wasn't a legendary :)
Post-Game-Kanto content, very nice!🥰 By the way: Vermilion City has with Lt. Surge the 3rd gym batch - not the 4th.
I, for one, never hated GSC post game. Never.
Sure the levels are basically what they were in RBY, but I actually think that choice let you flex your now champion pokemon even more! Lol
The only thing really frustrating when I was a kid was having no safari zone.
No viridian forest, ghost tower or power plant, as well as an empty cinnabar island were a bummer but understandable.
The fact some people think of this post game as bad is crazy to me. These games are the only ones to let you go to another region, it let's you fight all their gym leaders and collect their badges, catch the other games box art legendary pokemon, and lets you fight your character from the first game as a secret final boss. Honestly I wish a lot more Pokemon games made their post games like this!
It was bad in terms of lv curving and the levels of wild Pokémon
None of that really matters if it's all really boring to actually do. Gen 4 and gen 5 post-games easily do a lot more to please imo. Emerald, ORAS, and Gen 7 are pretty good too actually.
I just found the channel and I love it. Seeing things from a game devs eye and the little hints and items that are placed to teach and help you in an organic way is something often over looked by a lot of people in their rush to just bull head their way through a game. They forget the craft that went into to making said game.
As a kid this blew my mind getting to go back to Kano when I beat the elite 4. This was the most expansive game I played at age 9
I literally planned on doing this exact same thing in Pokémon Silver post game.
I started my initial playthrough about 2 months ago, just started postgame about three weeks ago but haven’t had time to play it. I only beat Janine in Fuchsia City so far.
I didn’t plan a route like you did, just gym members in a slightly different order, but naturally the way I am taking is the same as yours. I am just about to get to the power plant, this way feels like the intended way to go about the game even if at first it feels weird passing up battling the first three towns with gyms in them.
My order is going to be (because of their highest leveled Pokémon), Janine (venemoth 39), Brock (onix 44), Lt Surge (electabuzz 45), Erica (bellossom 46), Misty (starmie 47), Sabrina (48) , Blane (50) ,Blue (58)
Still though, ruining Misty’s date only to leave her waiting in a line of other gym battles feels satisfyingly slightly evil 🙃
Yeah, you nailed it at the end: as I kid I honestly never expected ALL of the Gen 1 game to be included when you visit Kanto. What we got is what felt right and it was still fun to go around and revisit all the old areas to see what had changed. But as I mentioned in another comment on your videos, when I say "as a kid" what I mean is "as a 14 yo" which was old enough to know better, whereas most pokemon fans from the era were younger and I can see how they'd have that expectation.
TBH, I think it's BECAUSE the postgame is so good that it's flaws stand out.
The level curve and unavailability of new pokemon really compound here, extending the "boring" sections of the game making the good parts minor by time comparison. Want a Houndor, Murkrow, Slugma, Chinchou, Misdrevus, Pupatar, Sneasel, Porygon 2, Tyrouge ect. ?
Postgame or waterfall required!
The level curve dosen't help either cuz when you FINALLY catch the mon, it's lvl 20-ish. Your team is in it's 40-50s. Ya gotta re-grind that mon to your teams level on incredibly low level wild pokemon and limited rematches. I love GSC and HGSS's postgame, but the poor level curve and pokemon avalibilityy make the postgame feel significantly worse than it actually is due to compounding issues.
Yes! I think they actually did a good job _within Johto_ of keeping the levels flat in a way that rewards changing up your team. But as I showed here, you have time for ONE swap in Kanto, which if you spend the entire time Exp-sharing it, it will be ready for Blue.
As a kid playing silver, I had no idea there was a post game. When I got to Kanto I was blown away that I got to reexperience blue version. But it was even better because I felt like all my childhood struggles with certain parts of blue were made easier because I have new gen pokemon. Got revenge on Brock and felt great
Great video. The shock and joy i felt as a 9 year old discovering kanto is in the game... I still remember it clearly at age 31
This series is gonna go crazy in Ruby/Sapphire. Love it
when you said “vulpices” thats when i knew i had to sub
Wait you beat the Elite 4 with level 38 pokemon?!
Writing down their entire move sets and planning your run around it lets you play at a pretty low level! Getting Red at 50 was more impressive to me personally :)
Video randomly popped up on my feed. I had no clue Kanto was in the game. This was amazing to find out. Thank you for this!
That team rocket guy ended up moving to unova and starting a family 😅
Girafig is normal type making it immune to ghost.
In Pokemon Gold unlike most other moder gen games there is actual days in week, time that matches real time, pokemon that appear an night, events based on day in week, headbutt trees for special pokemon etc. While lets say in Emerald, its like time stopped.
Hm... it's interesting how you had to work to beat Lt. Surge. For me, all the gym leaders here are an easy time, except for Blue. And it occurs to me, you're at a lower level than I normally am by the time I get into the postgame. And that's likely because I tend to grind for the Elite Four.
25:41 Fan theory: the two clefaries are actually the humans who were running the store (or maybe the humans are actually the clefaries), as the humans are not around during the night.
* 3rd gym is vermilion . Love ur vids
I remember staying up late to beat the elite four in Silver version one night, game boy light attachment putting in work while I was playing under the covers. I stayed up until almost 4 AM just because I freaked out when I walked into Kanto (not that I knew what it was called at the time) and then realized they put the entire map from the first game there, I lost my mind. Coolest thing ever.
Who has literally ever complained about gold and silvers post game it’s goated 😭
What are you on?! Bad post game?! Everyone was SUPER stoked when we learned we could go to Kanto. You have no idea. No other pokemon game ever came close post game.
Heartgold/soul silver
Black and white 1/2
Gen 2 post game was nice and exciting but implemented horribly
(Ji)Mothy I watched two whole ads for you for this video. One for FB and one for some mobile game. Know I appreciate what you do but this was torture to my adhd