I think this is key to making the sim realistic. In the aircraft, the autopilot flies the aircraft by physically moving the controls via trim motors, so you actually see the controls move when it's fully coupled up. There's what is essentially a potentioneter in each channel which feeds back positional information to complete the loop. Which signals are you using from the sim to drive the collective motor? And is it sophisticated enough to allow you to feed back the position of the collective? I don't know enough about the inner workings of MSFS. Amazing sim by the way!
Just remember that the collective even with feel trim engaged (not pressing in the Trim release trigger) the collect I’ve can still be moved manually easily……yes there will be resistance felt as it tries to go back to its trimmed posn but you can move it and even hold it against the trim force. This is a safety thing in real machine. So the force from the DC motor should not be so high as to stop you being able to overcome the trim force.
Really appreciate you sharing real-world knowledge! Currently, I can manually over ride with effort. I spoke to my friend, a 145 engineer, and I am waiting to see what force is needed to override so I can simulate it. Thanks for watching!
I.haven’t flown the 145 but I do fly the AW139, AW109SP and A169, and all these have 4-axis AFCS…….and the collective behaviour is pretty much the same. You don’t need to be too precise with this…….if you can hold it against the trim force for awhile without tiring out it’s fine…..you don’t normally do it of course so trying to think….maybe half a kilo of force?? Interesting to see what the engineer says…..
@miket3445 It's about 7lbs of pressure in both directions. Like 2 bags of sugar. This can be calibrated with an analog force gauge at the collective head. Then you adjust motor force until it equates to what you are aiming for.
Great build. I built a FFB collective using the virpil collective. Turned out great and it is silky smooth. Far better than I ever could get from a counterweight and mechanical damper. Looking forward to your software settings. I had modified my MFG pedal for FFB using the 04 motor but keen to see you FFB helicopter pedal FFB mod.
@dazbike3247 Thanks for sharing your experience! The virpil is a solid unit. I have one that I had modified to work with a max flight stick. The twist throttle is nice. I have a vid on my channel how I did it. (Has Frankenstein in the thumbnail lol) I had a motorcycle steering damper on my virpil which work great but your right, completely different with vp force motor. I should done with the design in fusion in about 2 weeks for the anti torque pedals. The mechanism is tricky and the parts need to be something everyone can get and use a service like sendcutsent to get things laser cut.
As a real world pilot I am confused.. why do sim pilots spend all this time building sim pits where the entire purpose is NOT to hands-on fly but instead push buttons on autopilots.. I only fly the Cowan MD500 in VR on my Puma setup so can hoon around like a maniac doing the things that would get my real life license suspended😂
I don't understand what you are saying. Force feedback controls in simulation beat passive flight controls hands down. To be able to control damper, friction, spring effects, inertia to dial in for each aircraft is incredible. You can hoon around "like a maniac" but with a much better controller feeling than a passive controller.
@ its not from a FFB point if view, its because everybody is spending time programming MCDUs and buying autopilot panels for the Airbus etc, and on the 145 its 4 axis so can autoland itself in principle (or with one finger actually), so again it risks becoming an autopilot party with people driving airplanes/helis using the automation. Also, the "help" is great for passenger safety but intrinsically dulls your skills as a pilot in real life, relying on it to fly you out of problems.. which is a very very real and deadly issue in my industry. (I want a FFB system but only when the software is good enough to replicate what a helicopter tells you btw.. so am not hating on that at all!!)
@HeliCarse72 Hi and thanks for watching! I love hand flying just as much as using the AP. I do alot of missions and the 145 is made to be a very comfortable heli. Aside from the AP the key component on the 145 is the collective force trim. It has an amazing dampening system which can be dialed in along with inertia etc. This can be used for any heli. I can easily make a profile for a cabri g2 or an R44 etc and you also get haptic feedback so you can feel all the vibrations.
@@HeliCarse72 Good to hear. Only those who want to fly complex machines with navigation need to spend time on systems. I agree, sometimes a blow out in a basic GA plane, helicopter or fighter jet focusing on just flying is great fun.
I am not easily impressed, now I am! Very explanatory and no BS 👍👍
Thanks for watching!
I think this is key to making the sim realistic. In the aircraft, the autopilot flies the aircraft by physically moving the controls via trim motors, so you actually see the controls move when it's fully coupled up. There's what is essentially a potentioneter in each channel which feeds back positional information to complete the loop.
Which signals are you using from the sim to drive the collective motor? And is it sophisticated enough to allow you to feed back the position of the collective? I don't know enough about the inner workings of MSFS.
Amazing sim by the way!
Just remember that the collective even with feel trim engaged (not pressing in the Trim release trigger) the collect I’ve can still be moved manually easily……yes there will be resistance felt as it tries to go back to its trimmed posn but you can move it and even hold it against the trim force. This is a safety thing in real machine. So the force from the DC motor should not be so high as to stop you being able to overcome the trim force.
Really appreciate you sharing real-world knowledge! Currently, I can manually over ride with effort. I spoke to my friend, a 145 engineer, and I am waiting to see what force is needed to override so I can simulate it. Thanks for watching!
I.haven’t flown the 145 but I do fly the AW139, AW109SP and A169, and all these have 4-axis AFCS…….and the collective behaviour is pretty much the same. You don’t need to be too precise with this…….if you can hold it against the trim force for awhile without tiring out it’s fine…..you don’t normally do it of course so trying to think….maybe half a kilo of force?? Interesting to see what the engineer says…..
@miket3445 His answer is 8-10 NM.
@@Rotor-Sims ok so what does that equate to weight wise? Guess depends on the collective arm length??
@miket3445 It's about 7lbs of pressure in both directions. Like 2 bags of sugar. This can be calibrated with an analog force gauge at the collective head. Then you adjust motor force until it equates to what you are aiming for.
That is just amazing
@@adsilite Thank you for watching!
Amazing work sir, just subbed looking forward to upcoming content.
@@xen10xen Thanks for watching and the support!
Great build. I built a FFB collective using the virpil collective. Turned out great and it is silky smooth. Far better than I ever could get from a counterweight and mechanical damper. Looking forward to your software settings. I had modified my MFG pedal for FFB using the 04 motor but keen to see you FFB helicopter pedal FFB mod.
@dazbike3247 Thanks for sharing your experience! The virpil is a solid unit. I have one that I had modified to work with a max flight stick. The twist throttle is nice. I have a vid on my channel how I did it. (Has Frankenstein in the thumbnail lol) I had a motorcycle steering damper on my virpil which work great but your right, completely different with vp force motor. I should done with the design in fusion in about 2 weeks for the anti torque pedals. The mechanism is tricky and the parts need to be something everyone can get and use a service like sendcutsent to get things laser cut.
@@Rotor-Sims Look forward to it. FFB DIY aircraft controls is my thing 😃
@dazbike3247 I'm happy to lend any info and help. Thanks for watching!
Are you planning to put motors in to drive the cyclic as well?
@TheBishopOfBarton Sure am! My kit should be arriving next week. I am currently working on the anti torque pedals too.
@@Rotor-Sims Can't wait to see how that turns out! That's the key to a great sim - proper trim motors for the controls.
@TheBishopOfBarton Couldn't agree more!
As a real world pilot I am confused.. why do sim pilots spend all this time building sim pits where the entire purpose is NOT to hands-on fly but instead push buttons on autopilots.. I only fly the Cowan MD500 in VR on my Puma setup so can hoon around like a maniac doing the things that would get my real life license suspended😂
I don't understand what you are saying. Force feedback controls in simulation beat passive flight controls hands down. To be able to control damper, friction, spring effects, inertia to dial in for each aircraft is incredible. You can hoon around "like a maniac" but with a much better controller feeling than a passive controller.
@ its not from a FFB point if view, its because everybody is spending time programming MCDUs and buying autopilot panels for the Airbus etc, and on the 145 its 4 axis so can autoland itself in principle (or with one finger actually), so again it risks becoming an autopilot party with people driving airplanes/helis using the automation. Also, the "help" is great for passenger safety but intrinsically dulls your skills as a pilot in real life, relying on it to fly you out of problems.. which is a very very real and deadly issue in my industry. (I want a FFB system but only when the software is good enough to replicate what a helicopter tells you btw.. so am not hating on that at all!!)
@HeliCarse72 Hi and thanks for watching! I love hand flying just as much as using the AP. I do alot of missions and the 145 is made to be a very comfortable heli. Aside from the AP the key component on the 145 is the collective force trim. It has an amazing dampening system which can be dialed in along with inertia etc. This can be used for any heli. I can easily make a profile for a cabri g2 or an R44 etc and you also get haptic feedback so you can feel all the vibrations.
@@HeliCarse72 Good to hear. Only those who want to fly complex machines with navigation need to spend time on systems. I agree, sometimes a blow out in a basic GA plane, helicopter or fighter jet focusing on just flying is great fun.