You can watch my reaction to the next episode RIGHT NOW on Patreon here (5$+), or the Full Length reaction (10$+): www.patreon.com/Aleczandxr IMPORTANT - This has come up incredibly often in comments and streams so just to reiterate - I am aware of the music video for a certain character for Arcane Season 2. I will be watching it after I finish the season. I'm aware it doesn't have spoilers and such, I just personally want to watch it when I'm done the season. You can follow me on Twitch here: www.twitch.tv/Aleczandxr/ Link to AJ's Discord server: discord.gg/Ekhz7PNuJd CURRENT TWITCH SCHEDULE: Mondays @ 10am EST: A Blind Playthrough of Resident Evil (Sometimes gaming streams are Tuesdays too, check Discord) Wednesdays @ 10am EST: Bleach Readthrough Fridays @ 10:30am EST: SOME FRIDAYS, I do full One Piece discussion streams as well. Check Discord for updates/details. Sundays @ 11am EST: One Piece + Hunter x Hunter chapter reads (When applicable)
"I just can't seem to die." combined with her gving up the high ground advantage along with her literally asking Vi to kill her because she was ready, to me makes it crystal clear that Jinx DEFINETLY wanted to die here in this scene. That's why she shouted "This isn't how it's supposed to go". Her whole plan was to die in that fight.
okay so another small details that i feel you'll appreciate: -when ekko is chastising jayce, he says "whenever it rains, we're the ones that get wet" in 2x1, salo looks genuinely surprised and disgruntled when he feels rain inside the council room -when discussing the wild rune, ekko says "[wild runes] are like its [the arcane's] fingerprints" in 2x2, after viktor heals huck, you can notice there are literal fingerprints on huck left by viktor in a similar aesthetic to the wild rune -the mural of the goddess janna is not actually the first time we see her. we see a very similar one being worshipped by some zaunites in 2x2 when viktor is exploring the undercity -the chanting in the song "ashes to blood" is a prayer to janna, with a particularly important line "i have nothing to fear for the blue bird is with me" -the child that jinx meets in 2x2 and saves her in 2x3 is named isha, which in hindi means "protector" -lest, the cat woman spy for mel, is canonically a trans woman! the voice actress is also a trans woman
Thanks so much for these! I mentioned the marks on Huck but didn’t realize that they were actually fingerprints! Also, that’s so cool about Lest being trans! Is that something that’s indicated in the show itself that I missed or something that was revealed purely outside of it?
27:23 there actually is backstory for her, just not in the show but a music video! it’s called Blood Sweat & Tears if you want to check it out and analyze it
alec please marry me 😭 you’re so insightful i love it hahah. ive been listening to your analysis’ when im doing my makeup in the mornings and it’s been very enjoyable. you’re bringing a new perspective to me with how much you remember details and see patterns. it’s fascinating! love your channel
The Girls somewhere in the old fissures: Fighting for their lives, trying to kill each other. The boys at the wild rune: absolutely tripping balls, experiencing some Dr.Strange type shit On a serious note, that whole section is beautifully directed. My favourite shot is Vi punching Jinx through a painted Pillar, breaking a sketch of them as kids being together
So many great observations! The parallels and symbolism are everywhere and I feel like every time I rewatch any scene in season 2 I find more of them. Structurally, the first three episodes definitely mirror those from the first season, with one episode focused on Zaun, one on Piltover, and the third cutting rapidly between climaxes in each. Caitlyn hitting Vi and leaving her broken and crying seems to be a clear reference to Vi doing the same to Powder at the end of the same episode a season earlier. And the more I look at all the parallels being drawn, the more I feel like I understand what this season is about: about (generational) cycles of violence, about inverting characters and having them walk in each other's shoes, about finding mutual understanding and (maybe?) the ability to forgive. I also have been thinking frequently about your season 1 comments on Jayce's arc of 'almost going over the edge but then stopping and finding himself again' in regards to Caitlyn in season 2, so hearing you making that comparison yourself in this video was great. I know that you've seen at least Act 2 at this point, so I'll be curious to see if you revisit that comparison when we see more of how she lands after the timeskip.
Oh, I forgot one thing I wanted to say, regarding the kiss: what was super cool was that like, from a shipping perspective it might be easy to desire that first kiss to be a grand moment of emotional catharsis and happiness, but what they actually did with it (of course, because it's Arcane) was make it this complex, almost wrong-feeling moment, where you want to be happy for them, but you also feel that it's kind of for all the wrong reasons; that Vi is seeing the change in Caitlyn and is almost in denial about it, and when Caitlyn promises she won't change you *know* that's not true, and so it feels good but also bad, because their emotions are genuine but also compromised, and when next we see them they don't look any happier or more relieved than before, they look worried and grimly determined respectively. Amanda Overton talked about this scene in an interview (www.thegamer.com/arcane-interview-amanda-overton-caitlyn-vi-queer-sapphic/) (potential spoilers if you haven't seen the last act yet) and it's just so cool from a writing perspective how much thought went into these things.
Totally agree re: the kiss. It’s a moment that was super built-up but for it to arrive in this context just feels wrong and desperate for all the reasons I mentioned in the video and you mentioned here. And that’s a really bold move to make for the story but I applaud the vision.
THANK YOU, finally someone that actually realizes how Powder is not gone, that’s not how it works, no matter what differences may be present the reality is, your past is your past and there is no erasing that. Allow me to quote a particular Adventure Time song… “Everything stays, right where you left it Everything stays, but it still changes Ever so slightly Daily and nightly In little ways When everything stays” Thinking more about it, I can see this theme involving multiple characters this season, but I’ll leave that up to Alec to get into if he wants.
Reminds me a bit of Walter White/Heisenberg, in case you/anyone’s watched Breaking Bad and can make that comparison. In both cases, the former identity may seem “dead” but actually play a key role in the compensatory characterization of the “new” identity and as a result, everything is connected. It’s easy for Vi to think of it in the way she does but she’s lying to herself there and no my seeing the situation for what it is.
@@ajgdude Yeah Vi constantly lies to herself to do what she feels needs to be done with Jinx. It's how she copes. Sadly the audience sometimes takes it as fact, because well thats normally how TV shows works. The protagonist says a thing, it must be expository and truth. Arcane is definitely a lot more complex than that though, and it's why I love it. Every word that is spoken needs to be really thought of how it fits into numerous contexts.
@@lockekappa500 this is my problem with Vi's character. She's very inconsistent and makes decisions based on what she thinks is right. She doesn't even ask. She demands. It is evident with the incident with Vander, Caitlyn and most importantly Jinx.
@@heart7676 All your statements are pretty generic so its hard to reply to them. I'd recommend watching a video titled "The Ultimate Question of Arcane" on youtube. It's a video on the duality of Arcane, Order and Chaos, and how Vi fits into all of that. It really helped my appreciation of the characterization that went on in S2. (although I mirrored most of his sentiments somewhat before even watching the video)
I actually made an Arcane video essay commenting why Jinx vs Vi is such an emotional fight scene unlike anything. (I'm still starting the channel, but I took a lot of inspiration from your analysis and essays)
Great discussion, I've actually felt that lack of buildup to the fight with the sisters impacted my enjoyment, but your take makes it feel a lot more deliberate and fitting. Also fire Byrgenwerth hoodie lol
Yeah I think the lack of enjoyment is intentional. In that neither of these sisters are really in the fight, but they both feel motioned forward by outside forces.
I think one additional detail in the scene where Caitlyn leaves Vi behind is that she hits her at the exact same spot that Vi was injured at by Sevika. Which means that she punched the same wound that she herself healed in S1E6. It explains why Vi is hurt by it so much physically I think, aside from the obvious emotional shock.
AHHH late on this one!! Maaan so many great points in this discussion!!! It was sad to see many people talking about character writing assasination in this 4th act (Caitlyn and Vi) which I dont agree even a 1%. Have they watched revenge stories at all? Even the sweetest human can be drawn in the spiral of hatred, and for me what makes it even better is that Cait was aware of this, she said herself that the cycle of violence will never stop to Ekko (1x07), but it isn´t that easy to deal with or to forgive when the things are done to you, right Cait? (looks like I shade on her but not at all I love her and is my favourite with Ambessa this act) I like how they touch that hypocrite (idk if it´s the right word) side we can have when facing hard situations. And the same way for Vi, yes she is lost, yes Vander told him protect the family, to take care of Powder, but also he said to her "whatever happens, it´s on you" and now she feels guilty because she is the one "who created the monster" (2x01) that killed Cait´s mom and she believes that is her burden to deal with Jinx, but as we know now, Ekko and Vi can say whatever they want to convince themselves, Powder is just a part of Jinx and viceversa. I won´t stretch it a lot more but I love what they´ve done in this act with Vi an Cait, I think they are more complicated, nuance and with more layers (especially Caitlyn, Vi already was in s1), and despite that, it felt natural to me the path they took in this act, even tho the more i think about them the more I love it. Sorry for the text and my grammar not sure if it´s cohesive and coherent! And thanks again for these videos!
Spot on analysis as always, I just thought I'd add something that I haven't seen discussed much. In the last scene with Caitlyn we definitely see her anger and desire for revenge aimed at jinx/zaun (when she squeezes her fist for example) which Ambessa exploits masterfully, but also a certain shock/hesitancy at being chosen for general (her taking time before stepping up/looking around at Maddie and others for confirmation). I suspect that Caitlyn sees through Ambessa machinations and bid for power, but she resolves herself to step into the role fearing that someone else might result in a worse outcome whereas she can try to reign in Ambessa's ambitions (however delusional that might be). Don't get me wrong everything you said about that scene is true and would make up most of what's going on, I just wanted to highlight a little bit of what's going on under the surface in my opinion. In any case, I enjoy these videos tremendously and I can't wait for the next one!!
Very interesting take! I think so far with my experience with the series my interpretation of that is a bit more focused on the emotional side of things, giving in to a sort of desire to enact vengeance and right the wrongs she sees in society and paying tribute to her mother. But that may change as I watch more and reflect on it, we’ll see! And I’m so glad you enjoy the videos, thanks for watching!
That's one thing I LOVE about this Season 2. Even when it seemingly undersells or underdevelops its looming plot points, or plot points we all have been waiting, it does it with narrative purpose. Like you said, we've all been waiting for this momentous occasion of Jinx and Vi finally fighting. But...are we though? Why would we? Should we? I think we have been conditioned by media to expect the culmination of these expected narrative points, but in reality a lot of them shouldnt be satisfying. And I think Season 2 embraces that by underselling some of the scenes that we've been waiting for.
The other humanoid races (fish dude, goat dudes, ekko's batdude friend) in this IP are called Vastaya (general term) and further divided into specific tribal "groups". Wont get too deep into it since Riot might be exploring that region in the next series of show they plan to make based on the rumors.
Off the top of my head the non-human "races" I can think of that so far have appared on arcane are Vastaya (animal looking characters, there are quite a few league champions of this "race" so a story about them is possible in future seasons/shows) and Yordles (little creatures looking characters, similar to Heimerdinger, there are a lot of league champions of that "race", arcane only showed 1 (some people say Smeech and the brothel owner are Yordles too but idk if that's confirmed) which leads people unfamiliar with the universe/lore to believe Heimerdinger is just a wild out of the blue character that's just there for sh1ts and giggles , but in fact there are a lot more Yordles champions in the league universe and they are a very prominent race, we just haven't seen much of them so also there's a possibility for a future show centered about them)
you can get a glimpse on Ambessa's past (without spoilers) by watching her music video Blood Sweat & Tears which has a lot to analyze and its very cool!
I agree with most of what you're saying, but Vi was absolutely about to kill Jinx until Isha intervened. She didn't want to, but she was in the middle of the punch right up until Isha gets in the way.
Eh, I don’t buy it. Everything else in the story points to her not being able to, not accepting reality and not being able to let the Powder within Jinx go. There’s wasn’t nearly enough conviction in that punch, it was just her lashing out with rage and desperation like always. Look at the hesitancy in her mannerisms, the lack of certainty. She would’ve knocked her out at best. She had been looking for an excuse not to do it and it was presented to her, and then she rode that excuse til the end to ensure that Caitlyn wouldn’t do anything.
I think the scene with Isha and trying to shield Jinx and then Vi stopping Caitlyn has more meaning. We know how Caitlyn is a really good sniper. We saw it before the fight began. She shot the mirror and hit where she wanted it. Vi saying "what if you missed" is basically breaking the trust and for me that is her blaming Caitlyn instead of acknowledging that she's not ready to lose Jinx. I will edit this comment while watching the whole video. XD
I like the focus on Caitlyn’s sharpshooting and think it probably plays a role here but personally I can’t bring myself to have the big takeaway from that scene be anything other than the fact that Caitlyn has gone over the edge. I do agree that Vi wasn’t willing to lose Jinx ofc, and talked about that in other sections of the discussion. There are lots of nuances attached to it and I agree that Caitlyn probably felt betrayed by Vi in that moment, and I enjoy the below take about Isha that I feel gets further expanded upon in episode 5. I think personally think that the core element of that scene and moment is that Caitlyn is changing in the way feared she would, of course established through her line to her before the kiss that papered over the cracks.
IMO, there are multiple layers to that scene that affected Vi decision making. Possibility of Caitlyn missing and hitting Isha is the first and obvious, so it is what Vi uses as rationalization in the moment. But I think the core of the problem for Vi was simple fact of Isha being there and protecting Jinx with her life. It reframes everything. Maybe (big maybe) Vi was willing enough to kill Jinx or allow Cait to kill Jinx, but she was definitely not ready to kill her sister in front of another child. It was too much. And Caitlyn utter disregard of that (in the moment too, because of the stuff we see later) complication is what breaks Vi and leads her to 'why you are the one who behaves like her?!' killing line.
im pretty late to the party and others probably brought it up, but there was a music video released that's related to ambessa you might be interested to check it out , since it shows a lot from her perspectitve maybe when you finished the season? it did release before s2 aired, so it doesn't contain any spoilers per se.
@@ajgdude Have you watched the music video for Enemy that was released for season 1? I would assume yes, but I can't remember if you hadmentioned it in your reaction.
I don't think Jinx wanted to kill Vi, but during the fight she loses control, culminating in that scene where she tries to point the gun at Vi's face and you can see the anger in her eyes. I believe she would have done it if given the chance (and she would regret it, just like with Silco).
What I find interesting is I don’t view Caitlyn as someone who’s fully changed. Vi begged her not to change but the “change” she sees in Caitlyn by the end of this episode, is just like Powder’s “change” to Jinx. It’s still them, a part of them has always been this way. Caitlyn despite being something of a paragon, still has a distinct sense of privilege that is easy to exploit because it’s so easy for her to give into her bias when faced with confrontation. She was never immune to misconception, we just saw much less of it in season one because there was so much less to push her in one direction, in fact through Vi she could be pushed in the opposite direction of her bias until Jinx seemingly confirmed everything Caitlyn once though, even if that belief is misconstrued. In fact, I think it could be argued that rather than begging Caitlyn not to change, Vi should have begged her to change for the better. Great reaction, couldn’t see it when it came out but I’m happy to see it now.
Know Im a bit late to the party but Im curious as to whether their are plans to do another series of discusion streams after finishing season 2. I remember some time after you finished season 1 you did several streams going over each act and expanding on your overall thoughts.
There will be a discussion stream about the full series once all of these videos are uploaded. No stream series is planned, especially so soon after releasing my experience with each individual episode, but yeah we have a discussion stream planned.
In discussion of Caitlyn, I see a lot of interpretations believing Caitlyn would have killed the child, but with the intent to murder due to the child being an obstacle. While I agree Caitlyn would have killed, I don't agree with the intent. An aspect to bring up is her being an excellent sharpshooter. We see countless times how well she uses her rifle and how confident she is. In the case of this episode, she also showed her confidence. She believed she had the shot on Jinx. That she wasn't going to miss. Yet when we look back at how Caitlyn uses her gun, she is composed. Steading her rifle. Knowing where to shoot and being on point with it. When ready to shoot Jinx after disarming the child, she was unsteady. And we clearly see at that moment Caitlyn had hatred blind her. I think at least thematically no matter how good of a shot Cait was, she would miss and kill the child. Which leads to my belief of intent. Caitlyn didn't have the intent of wanting to kill the child, The way I saw it when watching this episode was that she didn't care. It's still dark and haunting how far she has fallen, but there's a distinction between wanting to kill and not caring what is in front of you(which we even see despite Vi being in the way, she still tries to shoot Jinx, not being aware the risk of either shooting Vi or the child) This also follows into a very interesting parallel that I thought of with Jayce himself killing a child via collateral damage after letting himself go loose. For me looking at this Scene, and then with what Jayce has done on Ep 1x8, we see how it affected him. If Cait killed that child, she would have been in the same dilemma as Jayce. Do you continue on or stop? The only difference I feel is unlike Jayce where he can at least move on despite what he has done, I don't think Caitlyn can't due to her degree of self awareness and what strong belief she used to stand on. A final small interesting thing to bring which is Vi having an interesting turn around. Saying to Jayce how they should keep going even if a child died and the risk of more dying for the sake of stopping Silco. Even criticizing Jayce how the top turns a blind eye even though it happens all the time. But she then hesitated to get the job done because right in front of her was just a kid protecting jinx while Caitlyn is giving the blind eye to reach her goal.
> "I don't think either would pull the trigger" > *jinx literally pulling the trigger on vi several times which could have killed her* Jinx literally thought she shot vi last season in episode 4 and only felt bad afterwards I doubt she would have hesitated like vi if she was in that position
Well in the heat of a fight during which both women are using it as an outlet obviously they’re both going to go all guns blazing and point guns at one another and such. But what I was talking about was outside those moments where they actually think about their intent, when things pause like it did for Ekko in 1x7 or Vi in this episode. I was talking about in those moments, where they’re operating off of conscious thought, I highly doubt either is actually fully committed to kill the other. Either that or the buildup to this fight was too half-hearted to feel weighty and the nuances to the story that allude to that don’t mean anything. And the former makes much more sense then the latter.
I'm surprised how much negativity there is around Cait using the gas. Salo's alternative is a full scale invasion. Smeech says it's no big deal. Vi and big shield dude must be OK with it. Chiding Vi for using it is hypocritical since Jinx knocked Sevika out with the gray quite recently. Pretty sure 5 people using the gray is meant to show our heroes choosing the lesser of 2 evils. Agree Jinx and Vi weren't trying to kill each other during the fight. Once Jinx is pinned Vi winds up a punch then relaxes, but Jinx gives Vi verbal permission and Vi winds up again. I think the kid definitely saved Jinx from Vi and I think Vi saved the kid. Good shot or not the kid's head is pressed up against Jinx's and over penetration would hit them both. Lets just ignore that Cait could have shot Jinx in the leg 😏. This whole act felt sloppy but I've warmed up to it over time.
Sorry, but neither Vi or Caitlyn are heroes. Caitlyn was in season 1, but she is not one anymore nor is she meant to be, and she without doubt was not using the rationale of the gray being the lesser of two evils when she decided to do it. She was just thinking of vengeance and grief.
OK. "Protagonists". Cait doesn't face challenges to her good nature in S1. Overcome a little prejudice and lie to free someone from jail who for all she knew was Hannibal Lecter. S2 Cait is burdened and we get to see if it breaks her or not.
You can watch my reaction to the next episode RIGHT NOW on Patreon here (5$+), or the Full Length reaction (10$+): www.patreon.com/Aleczandxr
IMPORTANT - This has come up incredibly often in comments and streams so just to reiterate - I am aware of the music video for a certain character for Arcane Season 2. I will be watching it after I finish the season. I'm aware it doesn't have spoilers and such, I just personally want to watch it when I'm done the season.
You can follow me on Twitch here: www.twitch.tv/Aleczandxr/
Link to AJ's Discord server: discord.gg/Ekhz7PNuJd
CURRENT TWITCH SCHEDULE:
Mondays @ 10am EST: A Blind Playthrough of Resident Evil (Sometimes gaming streams are Tuesdays too, check Discord)
Wednesdays @ 10am EST: Bleach Readthrough
Fridays @ 10:30am EST: SOME FRIDAYS, I do full One Piece discussion streams as well. Check Discord for updates/details.
Sundays @ 11am EST: One Piece + Hunter x Hunter chapter reads (When applicable)
"I just can't seem to die." combined with her gving up the high ground advantage along with her literally asking Vi to kill her because she was ready, to me makes it crystal clear that Jinx DEFINETLY wanted to die here in this scene. That's why she shouted "This isn't how it's supposed to go". Her whole plan was to die in that fight.
okay so another small details that i feel you'll appreciate:
-when ekko is chastising jayce, he says "whenever it rains, we're the ones that get wet" in 2x1, salo looks genuinely surprised and disgruntled when he feels rain inside the council room
-when discussing the wild rune, ekko says "[wild runes] are like its [the arcane's] fingerprints" in 2x2, after viktor heals huck, you can notice there are literal fingerprints on huck left by viktor in a similar aesthetic to the wild rune
-the mural of the goddess janna is not actually the first time we see her. we see a very similar one being worshipped by some zaunites in 2x2 when viktor is exploring the undercity
-the chanting in the song "ashes to blood" is a prayer to janna, with a particularly important line "i have nothing to fear for the blue bird is with me"
-the child that jinx meets in 2x2 and saves her in 2x3 is named isha, which in hindi means "protector"
-lest, the cat woman spy for mel, is canonically a trans woman! the voice actress is also a trans woman
Thanks so much for these! I mentioned the marks on Huck but didn’t realize that they were actually fingerprints!
Also, that’s so cool about Lest being trans! Is that something that’s indicated in the show itself that I missed or something that was revealed purely outside of it?
@@ajgdudelest being trans was mentioned by the va on social media. would've been cool if it was in the show, but i still think it's neat
Gotcha, thanks!
“Tragically stagnant” is a beautiful description and I won’t stop thinking about that for a long time lol
Perfectly describes her character this season lol
27:23 there actually is backstory for her, just not in the show but a music video! it’s called Blood Sweat & Tears if you want to check it out and analyze it
Pinned comment! Glad you're enjoying the content :)
alec please marry me 😭 you’re so insightful i love it hahah. ive been listening to your analysis’ when im doing my makeup in the mornings and it’s been very enjoyable. you’re bringing a new perspective to me with how much you remember details and see patterns. it’s fascinating! love your channel
The Girls somewhere in the old fissures: Fighting for their lives, trying to kill each other.
The boys at the wild rune: absolutely tripping balls, experiencing some Dr.Strange type shit
On a serious note, that whole section is beautifully directed. My favourite shot is Vi punching Jinx through a painted Pillar, breaking a sketch of them as kids being together
So many great observations! The parallels and symbolism are everywhere and I feel like every time I rewatch any scene in season 2 I find more of them. Structurally, the first three episodes definitely mirror those from the first season, with one episode focused on Zaun, one on Piltover, and the third cutting rapidly between climaxes in each. Caitlyn hitting Vi and leaving her broken and crying seems to be a clear reference to Vi doing the same to Powder at the end of the same episode a season earlier. And the more I look at all the parallels being drawn, the more I feel like I understand what this season is about: about (generational) cycles of violence, about inverting characters and having them walk in each other's shoes, about finding mutual understanding and (maybe?) the ability to forgive.
I also have been thinking frequently about your season 1 comments on Jayce's arc of 'almost going over the edge but then stopping and finding himself again' in regards to Caitlyn in season 2, so hearing you making that comparison yourself in this video was great. I know that you've seen at least Act 2 at this point, so I'll be curious to see if you revisit that comparison when we see more of how she lands after the timeskip.
Oh, I forgot one thing I wanted to say, regarding the kiss: what was super cool was that like, from a shipping perspective it might be easy to desire that first kiss to be a grand moment of emotional catharsis and happiness, but what they actually did with it (of course, because it's Arcane) was make it this complex, almost wrong-feeling moment, where you want to be happy for them, but you also feel that it's kind of for all the wrong reasons; that Vi is seeing the change in Caitlyn and is almost in denial about it, and when Caitlyn promises she won't change you *know* that's not true, and so it feels good but also bad, because their emotions are genuine but also compromised, and when next we see them they don't look any happier or more relieved than before, they look worried and grimly determined respectively. Amanda Overton talked about this scene in an interview (www.thegamer.com/arcane-interview-amanda-overton-caitlyn-vi-queer-sapphic/) (potential spoilers if you haven't seen the last act yet) and it's just so cool from a writing perspective how much thought went into these things.
Totally agree re: the kiss. It’s a moment that was super built-up but for it to arrive in this context just feels wrong and desperate for all the reasons I mentioned in the video and you mentioned here. And that’s a really bold move to make for the story but I applaud the vision.
Love that parallel with Vi! I never caught that expression but it feels really intentional.
THANK YOU, finally someone that actually realizes how Powder is not gone, that’s not how it works, no matter what differences may be present the reality is, your past is your past and there is no erasing that. Allow me to quote a particular Adventure Time song…
“Everything stays, right where you left it
Everything stays, but it still changes
Ever so slightly
Daily and nightly
In little ways
When everything stays”
Thinking more about it, I can see this theme involving multiple characters this season, but I’ll leave that up to Alec to get into if he wants.
Reminds me a bit of Walter White/Heisenberg, in case you/anyone’s watched Breaking Bad and can make that comparison. In both cases, the former identity may seem “dead” but actually play a key role in the compensatory characterization of the “new” identity and as a result, everything is connected.
It’s easy for Vi to think of it in the way she does but she’s lying to herself there and no my seeing the situation for what it is.
@@ajgdude Yeah Vi constantly lies to herself to do what she feels needs to be done with Jinx. It's how she copes. Sadly the audience sometimes takes it as fact, because well thats normally how TV shows works. The protagonist says a thing, it must be expository and truth. Arcane is definitely a lot more complex than that though, and it's why I love it. Every word that is spoken needs to be really thought of how it fits into numerous contexts.
@@lockekappa500 this is my problem with Vi's character. She's very inconsistent and makes decisions based on what she thinks is right. She doesn't even ask. She demands. It is evident with the incident with Vander, Caitlyn and most importantly Jinx.
@@heart7676 All your statements are pretty generic so its hard to reply to them. I'd recommend watching a video titled "The Ultimate Question of Arcane" on youtube. It's a video on the duality of Arcane, Order and Chaos, and how Vi fits into all of that. It really helped my appreciation of the characterization that went on in S2. (although I mirrored most of his sentiments somewhat before even watching the video)
I actually made an Arcane video essay commenting why Jinx vs Vi is such an emotional fight scene unlike anything.
(I'm still starting the channel, but I took a lot of inspiration from your analysis and essays)
Great discussion, I've actually felt that lack of buildup to the fight with the sisters impacted my enjoyment, but your take makes it feel a lot more deliberate and fitting. Also fire Byrgenwerth hoodie lol
Yeah I think the lack of enjoyment is intentional. In that neither of these sisters are really in the fight, but they both feel motioned forward by outside forces.
I think one additional detail in the scene where Caitlyn leaves Vi behind is that she hits her at the exact same spot that Vi was injured at by Sevika. Which means that she punched the same wound that she herself healed in S1E6. It explains why Vi is hurt by it so much physically I think, aside from the obvious emotional shock.
AHHH late on this one!! Maaan so many great points in this discussion!!! It was sad to see many people talking about character writing assasination in this 4th act (Caitlyn and Vi) which I dont agree even a 1%. Have they watched revenge stories at all? Even the sweetest human can be drawn in the spiral of hatred, and for me what makes it even better is that Cait was aware of this, she said herself that the cycle of violence will never stop to Ekko (1x07), but it isn´t that easy to deal with or to forgive when the things are done to you, right Cait? (looks like I shade on her but not at all I love her and is my favourite with Ambessa this act) I like how they touch that hypocrite (idk if it´s the right word) side we can have when facing hard situations.
And the same way for Vi, yes she is lost, yes Vander told him protect the family, to take care of Powder, but also he said to her "whatever happens, it´s on you" and now she feels guilty because she is the one "who created the monster" (2x01) that killed Cait´s mom and she believes that is her burden to deal with Jinx, but as we know now, Ekko and Vi can say whatever they want to convince themselves, Powder is just a part of Jinx and viceversa.
I won´t stretch it a lot more but I love what they´ve done in this act with Vi an Cait, I think they are more complicated, nuance and with more layers (especially Caitlyn, Vi already was in s1), and despite that, it felt natural to me the path they took in this act, even tho the more i think about them the more I love it. Sorry for the text and my grammar not sure if it´s cohesive and coherent! And thanks again for these videos!
Spot on analysis as always, I just thought I'd add something that I haven't seen discussed much. In the last scene with Caitlyn we definitely see her anger and desire for revenge aimed at jinx/zaun (when she squeezes her fist for example) which Ambessa exploits masterfully, but also a certain shock/hesitancy at being chosen for general (her taking time before stepping up/looking around at Maddie and others for confirmation). I suspect that Caitlyn sees through Ambessa machinations and bid for power, but she resolves herself to step into the role fearing that someone else might result in a worse outcome whereas she can try to reign in Ambessa's ambitions (however delusional that might be). Don't get me wrong everything you said about that scene is true and would make up most of what's going on, I just wanted to highlight a little bit of what's going on under the surface in my opinion. In any case, I enjoy these videos tremendously and I can't wait for the next one!!
Very interesting take! I think so far with my experience with the series my interpretation of that is a bit more focused on the emotional side of things, giving in to a sort of desire to enact vengeance and right the wrongs she sees in society and paying tribute to her mother. But that may change as I watch more and reflect on it, we’ll see!
And I’m so glad you enjoy the videos, thanks for watching!
That's one thing I LOVE about this Season 2. Even when it seemingly undersells or underdevelops its looming plot points, or plot points we all have been waiting, it does it with narrative purpose. Like you said, we've all been waiting for this momentous occasion of Jinx and Vi finally fighting. But...are we though? Why would we? Should we? I think we have been conditioned by media to expect the culmination of these expected narrative points, but in reality a lot of them shouldnt be satisfying. And I think Season 2 embraces that by underselling some of the scenes that we've been waiting for.
The other humanoid races (fish dude, goat dudes, ekko's batdude friend) in this IP are called Vastaya (general term) and further divided into specific tribal "groups". Wont get too deep into it since Riot might be exploring that region in the next series of show they plan to make based on the rumors.
Oh interesting, thank you!
Off the top of my head the non-human "races" I can think of that so far have appared on arcane are Vastaya (animal looking characters, there are quite a few league champions of this "race" so a story about them is possible in future seasons/shows) and Yordles (little creatures looking characters, similar to Heimerdinger, there are a lot of league champions of that "race", arcane only showed 1 (some people say Smeech and the brothel owner are Yordles too but idk if that's confirmed) which leads people unfamiliar with the universe/lore to believe Heimerdinger is just a wild out of the blue character that's just there for sh1ts and giggles , but in fact there are a lot more Yordles champions in the league universe and they are a very prominent race, we just haven't seen much of them so also there's a possibility for a future show centered about them)
We’re so back baby
you can get a glimpse on Ambessa's past (without spoilers) by watching her music video Blood Sweat & Tears which has a lot to analyze and its very cool!
Addressed this in the pinned comment!
I agree with most of what you're saying, but Vi was absolutely about to kill Jinx until Isha intervened. She didn't want to, but she was in the middle of the punch right up until Isha gets in the way.
Eh, I don’t buy it. Everything else in the story points to her not being able to, not accepting reality and not being able to let the Powder within Jinx go. There’s wasn’t nearly enough conviction in that punch, it was just her lashing out with rage and desperation like always. Look at the hesitancy in her mannerisms, the lack of certainty. She would’ve knocked her out at best.
She had been looking for an excuse not to do it and it was presented to her, and then she rode that excuse til the end to ensure that Caitlyn wouldn’t do anything.
33:43 yes!!!! You get it!
I think the scene with Isha and trying to shield Jinx and then Vi stopping Caitlyn has more meaning. We know how Caitlyn is a really good sniper. We saw it before the fight began. She shot the mirror and hit where she wanted it.
Vi saying "what if you missed" is basically breaking the trust and for me that is her blaming Caitlyn instead of acknowledging that she's not ready to lose Jinx.
I will edit this comment while watching the whole video. XD
I have one question: Was Caitlyn trying to hit Jinx's finger?
I like the focus on Caitlyn’s sharpshooting and think it probably plays a role here but personally I can’t bring myself to have the big takeaway from that scene be anything other than the fact that Caitlyn has gone over the edge. I do agree that Vi wasn’t willing to lose Jinx ofc, and talked about that in other sections of the discussion.
There are lots of nuances attached to it and I agree that Caitlyn probably felt betrayed by Vi in that moment, and I enjoy the below take about Isha that I feel gets further expanded upon in episode 5. I think personally think that the core element of that scene and moment is that Caitlyn is changing in the way feared she would, of course established through her line to her before the kiss that papered over the cracks.
IMO, there are multiple layers to that scene that affected Vi decision making. Possibility of Caitlyn missing and hitting Isha is the first and obvious, so it is what Vi uses as rationalization in the moment. But I think the core of the problem for Vi was simple fact of Isha being there and protecting Jinx with her life. It reframes everything.
Maybe (big maybe) Vi was willing enough to kill Jinx or allow Cait to kill Jinx, but she was definitely not ready to kill her sister in front of another child. It was too much. And Caitlyn utter disregard of that (in the moment too, because of the stuff we see later) complication is what breaks Vi and leads her to 'why you are the one who behaves like her?!' killing line.
im pretty late to the party and others probably brought it up, but there was a music video released that's related to ambessa
you might be interested to check it out , since it shows a lot from her perspectitve
maybe when you finished the season? it did release before s2 aired, so it doesn't contain any spoilers per se.
Yep I’ll be watching it after the season is done!
@@ajgdude Have you watched the music video for Enemy that was released for season 1? I would assume yes, but I can't remember if you hadmentioned it in your reaction.
Highly recommend you to watch the music video "blood sweat and tears". It's for season 2 and adds a lot of context to one of the characters
Yeah, plenty have mentioned it to me! I’ll be doing so after I finish Season 2.
@@ajgdude And you don't have to worry about spoilers. There are no scenes of the show in that music video
@SaguntoYT Oh yeah I know, I’ve been informed all about it, but thank you! I’d just prefer to see it after I see the whole season personally.
@@SaguntoYT **Spoilers** I mean there is a hint at the nature of a certain character
I don't think Jinx wanted to kill Vi, but during the fight she loses control, culminating in that scene where she tries to point the gun at Vi's face and you can see the anger in her eyes. I believe she would have done it if given the chance (and she would regret it, just like with Silco).
What I find interesting is I don’t view Caitlyn as someone who’s fully changed. Vi begged her not to change but the “change” she sees in Caitlyn by the end of this episode, is just like Powder’s “change” to Jinx. It’s still them, a part of them has always been this way. Caitlyn despite being something of a paragon, still has a distinct sense of privilege that is easy to exploit because it’s so easy for her to give into her bias when faced with confrontation. She was never immune to misconception, we just saw much less of it in season one because there was so much less to push her in one direction, in fact through Vi she could be pushed in the opposite direction of her bias until Jinx seemingly confirmed everything Caitlyn once though, even if that belief is misconstrued.
In fact, I think it could be argued that rather than begging Caitlyn not to change, Vi should have begged her to change for the better.
Great reaction, couldn’t see it when it came out but I’m happy to see it now.
Know Im a bit late to the party but Im curious as to whether their are plans to do another series of discusion streams after finishing season 2. I remember some time after you finished season 1 you did several streams going over each act and expanding on your overall thoughts.
There will be a discussion stream about the full series once all of these videos are uploaded. No stream series is planned, especially so soon after releasing my experience with each individual episode, but yeah we have a discussion stream planned.
@ajgdude Glad to hear. With any luck I might be able to join it.
In discussion of Caitlyn, I see a lot of interpretations believing Caitlyn would have killed the child, but with the intent to murder due to the child being an obstacle. While I agree Caitlyn would have killed, I don't agree with the intent.
An aspect to bring up is her being an excellent sharpshooter. We see countless times how well she uses her rifle and how confident she is. In the case of this episode, she also showed her confidence. She believed she had the shot on Jinx. That she wasn't going to miss. Yet when we look back at how Caitlyn uses her gun, she is composed. Steading her rifle. Knowing where to shoot and being on point with it. When ready to shoot Jinx after disarming the child, she was unsteady. And we clearly see at that moment Caitlyn had hatred blind her. I think at least thematically no matter how good of a shot Cait was, she would miss and kill the child. Which leads to my belief of intent. Caitlyn didn't have the intent of wanting to kill the child, The way I saw it when watching this episode was that she didn't care. It's still dark and haunting how far she has fallen, but there's a distinction between wanting to kill and not caring what is in front of you(which we even see despite Vi being in the way, she still tries to shoot Jinx, not being aware the risk of either shooting Vi or the child)
This also follows into a very interesting parallel that I thought of with Jayce himself killing a child via collateral damage after letting himself go loose. For me looking at this Scene, and then with what Jayce has done on Ep 1x8, we see how it affected him. If Cait killed that child, she would have been in the same dilemma as Jayce. Do you continue on or stop? The only difference I feel is unlike Jayce where he can at least move on despite what he has done, I don't think Caitlyn can't due to her degree of self awareness and what strong belief she used to stand on.
A final small interesting thing to bring which is Vi having an interesting turn around. Saying to Jayce how they should keep going even if a child died and the risk of more dying for the sake of stopping Silco. Even criticizing Jayce how the top turns a blind eye even though it happens all the time. But she then hesitated to get the job done because right in front of her was just a kid protecting jinx while Caitlyn is giving the blind eye to reach her goal.
> "I don't think either would pull the trigger"
> *jinx literally pulling the trigger on vi several times which could have killed her*
Jinx literally thought she shot vi last season in episode 4 and only felt bad afterwards I doubt she would have hesitated like vi if she was in that position
Well in the heat of a fight during which both women are using it as an outlet obviously they’re both going to go all guns blazing and point guns at one another and such. But what I was talking about was outside those moments where they actually think about their intent, when things pause like it did for Ekko in 1x7 or Vi in this episode. I was talking about in those moments, where they’re operating off of conscious thought, I highly doubt either is actually fully committed to kill the other. Either that or the buildup to this fight was too half-hearted to feel weighty and the nuances to the story that allude to that don’t mean anything. And the former makes much more sense then the latter.
Can I ask ur top 5 characters of this show? I know Jayce is #1 but no idea about who the other 4 would be lol
I talk about this in a future video! But the top 5 at the end of S1 was Jayce, Silco, Jinx, Viktor and Vi
This episode is great but in a very different way from 1x3.
watch blood sweat and tears music video for more ambessa content if you havent already
Pinned comment
I'm surprised how much negativity there is around Cait using the gas. Salo's alternative is a full scale invasion. Smeech says it's no big deal. Vi and big shield dude must be OK with it. Chiding Vi for using it is hypocritical since Jinx knocked Sevika out with the gray quite recently. Pretty sure 5 people using the gray is meant to show our heroes choosing the lesser of 2 evils.
Agree Jinx and Vi weren't trying to kill each other during the fight. Once Jinx is pinned Vi winds up a punch then relaxes, but Jinx gives Vi verbal permission and Vi winds up again. I think the kid definitely saved Jinx from Vi and I think Vi saved the kid. Good shot or not the kid's head is pressed up against Jinx's and over penetration would hit them both. Lets just ignore that Cait could have shot Jinx in the leg 😏. This whole act felt sloppy but I've warmed up to it over time.
Sorry, but neither Vi or Caitlyn are heroes. Caitlyn was in season 1, but she is not one anymore nor is she meant to be, and she without doubt was not using the rationale of the gray being the lesser of two evils when she decided to do it. She was just thinking of vengeance and grief.
OK. "Protagonists". Cait doesn't face challenges to her good nature in S1. Overcome a little prejudice and lie to free someone from jail who for all she knew was Hannibal Lecter. S2 Cait is burdened and we get to see if it breaks her or not.
watch blood sweat and tears music video for more ambessa content if you havent already
Check pinned comment.