Time stamps: 1:58 Have there been any roles added to the game that received the complete opposite reaction to what you expected? 4:31 How long have stats been tracked? Are they being tracked in Town of Salem 2 right now? 7:09 Do the developers like VFR/VFA? 12:00 Was there anything you disliked in Town of Salem 1 and tried to remove in Town of Salem 2? 16:09 I ask a selfish question that I didn’t prepare Rus for 😬 17:46 Will the mafia faction ever come back? Will any other factions be added? 20:20 What was your biggest programming challenge when making ToS/ToS2? 23:59 Will vampires get a larger debut outside of Dracula’s Palace? Will Vampire Hunter be added to the game? 30:42 Were there any cut roles from Town of Salem 1 that made it into Town of Salem 2? 32:23 What are your thoughts on other variations of Town of Salem? (Throne of lies, Mafia, etc) 34:08 Got any tips for aspiring game developers? 37:26 What is the future of Traitors in Salem? 38:55 What do you think of Town of Salem mods? 42:24 (my question) Why did you spell “jailer” with an “o” 42:54 I start laughing at the answer to the above question for the next 2 minutes
Holy moly I didn't expect my vampire question to be here. That was fun! Even if vampires don't comeback as big as before, we still have ToS 1 for that. Also random little sidenote, Werwolves can smell people now in the patch? I don't think I've been more excited to hear about werewolf in my life! All in all if the developers see this, thank you for six whole years of fun and hopefully even more to come. And thanks for taking time to read my question lol.
Hypnotist would be an excellent addition to a hypothetical Vampire faction! Using Vampire powers to cause Townies to hallucinate would be a FANTASTIC and thematic addition!
Yeah, I always felt like VH should've been a neutral of some kind, it really seems like their goals don't have much to do with town at all until they turn vigi and even other evils tend to leave them until that point so that they can do their thing.
I disagree, because no one except Vampires would want them dead then, in contrast to the others neutrals, like Shroud and Doomsayer and Pirate who are a threat to everyone
I always loved vampires and mafia. Mafia always felt like the subtle faction, while coven was the bold and powerful faction. Mafia was there to confuse town with its information. Vampires felt like a slow burn. If you didn’t deal with them they came back to bite you, literally.
Since all of mafia's roles were rolled into coven, I don't see them coming back. However, I bet many who miss them probably miss the chaos from having 3 opposing factions. Neutral Apocalypse roles are seemingly filling that void, but I think it'd be really cool if there could be a gamemode where coven is split into two opposing factions and the several coven roles can be divided between them, since there are so many now. Maybe explain it as the coven discovering a second evil book creating a rift between members. Necronomicon vs. Tome of Shadows. Or Invokers vs. Alchemists. Or whatever cool witch faction names.
Here's roles i think need to be tweaked a bit Serial killer: as strong as they made it already, i think a rather necessary (and one that just makes sense in the whole "im a serial killer aspect") change is giving you bloodlust after successfully attacking twice, doesnt matter if you kill them, you just need to attack. Admirer: now this role is much better than it originally was, but I'm not so convinced neutral benign was a bad thing when the neutral benign had a clear side, and i think admirer should be neutral benign, and if their target dies i think they should leave the town out of shame, but maybe they get 3 " cares" rather than just two Amnesiac: this is another role that like admirer, could be much better to be and play if we just removed them from town, all amnesiac is at the moment... Is just waiting an extra night for your role... That's no fun, unless... You can remember anything... Now I think amne should be neutral benign and then randomly picks a dead person to remember (I'd prefer if they actually had the choice but ya know) or if you keep it a town role, don't *automatically* remember a role, let them wait and remember at a later time in the game, because sheriff might not be as useful N2 as Crus would've been N3 Vampire hunter and vamps: I also think Vampire Hunter should be a neutral benign role that's sole goal is (you'll never guess) get all vamps out of the game and then leave the town (but wait... Theres more) i want a necromancer to be able to use vamps to convert townies and if they did and the vampire hunter has already left... They get a cool animation of them coming back, now ridding the town of them the first time is already a win, but could just leave for some more fun? Oh and vampires should be stronger the more of them that exist (1 just basic attack, 2 basic defense too, 3 powerful attack basic defense, 4 powerful attack powerful defense [and of course all defense is lost during the day cuz ya know... The sun])
Thank you Adagia for putting together this QnA, and thank you TraitorRus for answering our questions! It's always fun to get a peek behind the scenes of game development. I'm really happy my question actually got in, and the answer has definitely inspired me to keep pushing forwards with game development. I still need to focus on learning basic coding before I try and do anything *too* crazy, though.
Love your vods, keep em coming :p (and i love that you are not alone anymore in pipe games, everyone adopted the same strategy so no one gets bullied in all games just for having their name), and for the third thing i love, i love seeing you in pipe games after all that time (watching you both for years) and most of my favorite pipton videos have you in them. Now the fourth thing i love would be that you posted more videos. But if it takes you a long time to make the amazing stuff you post i wont complain. 😂😅. (The dev had a huge fan energy about your channel) (sorry for the long message xd).
Honestly, the answer for the vfr question is really good, i really liked it. Vfa is probably The happy medium that the game balance needs. Town can get info, and there is enough guesswork involved that rit and doom will have to be good or lucky at scumreading. Especially when the coroner and jailor swap claims lol
TBH what would be an idea is a "Modern Day" Game-Mode where you basically have the same roles mechanically, but they're called different in some cases and have different 'shilouettes' Changes could be for town like: Cleric -> Doctor Bodyguard -> Gets a more Modern-Day Shilouette. And then the Coven is replaced by Mafia instead. Coven Leader -> Godfather Hex Master -> Bomber Witch -> Manipulator Dreamweaver -> Hypnotist Enchanter -> Framer Illusionist -> Disguiser Medusa -> Janitor Jinx -> Ambusher Ritualist -> Hitman Conjurer -> Assassin Necromancer -> Puppeteer Poisoner -> Would keep the name Potion Master -> Consigliere Voodoo Master -> Blackmailer Wildling -> Stalker And instead of the Necronomicon they have some other thing that empowers them, something that signifies Leadership in the Mafia or something.
SC2 Mafia had the Triad as a third faction in addition to the Town and Mafia. The Triad roles were identical to the Mafia roles just with different names. It was just a mechanism to have three factions in one game. People really seem to miss the possibility of playing a game with three factions. I don't see why they shouldn't do this.
hey adagia hope this helps about the jailer/jailor mistake Jailor with an O is a noun meaning a person in charge of a jail or of the prisoners in it. Jailer with an E is a noun meaning a person who jails people. this is what i've seen in my research
Kingmakers were what made the “Social” of Social Deduction, as you could make alliances, while that is not possible now. Sure, you can deceive, but no more “Hey, Im PM, know ur Surv, please side” to get an extra coven vote to maj
Interesting. My response to your Survivor video was to think of ways to make the role healthier. So I was actually disappointed to see Survivor gone, precisely _because_ you made that video. My concept was something like - You get 4 visits but no vests (exact number depends on balance). GA turned Surv gets no visits - Visiting makes you absent at your own home, but you die if your visit's home is attacked that night - Tracker and Lookout can soft-confirm you, attackers will hard-confirm you (to the attacker) - Maybe Spy should also be able to hard-confirm you? Depends on balance - Maybe you have to win (and survive, obv) with the faction you visited most recently? Depends on balance. In that case, GA turned Surv wins with the faction they used to watch over
@dimlockfork5170 one thing it did give is evils something to fake that didn't get outted immediately for fake wills. Sure you can argue that it's more skill but even skilled fakers are still faking and will be caught out by things outside of their control. So it is nice for evils to have something to fall back on. Granted it makes playing the fallback role a little rough but town has very powerful process of elimination that can feel too strong at times.
Got a Funny Mafia + Vamp Idea while watching: Mafia recruiter. Can try to Recruit targets every other night. The target (if town) has two choices, *Join them* or *Challenge them*. -If they choose to *join* they become like a Young Vampire/mafia. They will be the one to attack the votes target. -If they Challenge, it’s a 50/50 or so chance of death, if the target lives however, they know who was the Recruiter is. Every other night when the Mafia is not Recruiting, they can vote/choose to attack a target and the Newest member will be sent to attack. wacky mafia idea I just had to share
Ghost town was such a great idea, but mentioning specifically friends playing together points out an issue. How do you make it IRL or on a voice chat so that the dead can see the living's info but still talk the game out to each other?
I think that vamps could work well if instead vamps prompt someone to make a choice, 1) be converted to vamps or 2) fight back, refusing to change but only have a 50% chance of surviving to the next day. It would incentivise joining but wouldn't force you if you really hate them. And gambling can be fun.
I like this train of thought, although I feel like the player's choice shouldnt screw vampires too hard. Maybe at day vampires can choose who to visit, and at night that player gets visited by a vampire and presented with the choice. If the target agrees to be converted, they do, otherwise the target is attacked as normal. Would give vets an edge though so idk what other rebalancing would be needed.
So you get a 50% chance to survive and instantly out the vampires? Doesn't seem to fair for vamps if refusing doesn't punish you. And it opens the path for rng screwing you over, a guaranteed outcoume would be the best. Either a guranteed kill, maybe a silence or some kind of douse/hex for the refusing players would give them an incentive to accept. But giving the players a choice would solve the problem of the conversion controversy, if you prefer dying over switching sides.
jinx kinda counters itself tbh, you need to visit people who arent visited so you dont get caught but you need to visit someone who is visited to actually use your ability
For some context on the original rendition of shroud, on a 7-8 year old stream Pyro and Ahkilles did a Q&A and one of the questions was what new roles were planned for the game. 4 roles were mentioned, Zombie, Town Crier, Plaguebearer and Shadow-Walker. Zombie's mechanics were unknown. Plaguebearer was added in the coven dlc, but originally they didn't have Pestilence planned. Town Crier would have been able to anonymously talk to the entire town at night. Shadow-Walker functioned the exact same was as shroud which was then added in tos2.
@@DailyNightmares100 No, this was after the vampires released. Originally, Vampire were likely to be a role called "Cultist". Remnants of the role exist in the files as Consigliere results. Cultist did make a return in Traitors in Salem as a conversion role, just like it would've been in TOS1.
I was absolutely elated that NBs and vampires are gone from AA. I have to admit, though, I appreciate the uniqueness of Vampire Hunter being able to read more chat. I kind of like abilities that expand into the chat and social part of the game in addition to strategy, the way Spy, Disguiser, BMer, and Wildling have done. It's more up to the player to make use of it.
You know what Mafia should be? The dark side of the Town faction. Mafia’s goal would be to pretend to be Townies, while eliminating enemies to the town. They get auto-revealed if their Godfather gets guiltied and hung, and they can no longer win once their Godfather is revealed. Their goal is to stay in the shadows and not get voted up, while doing the Town’s dirty work. Godfather sending Mafioso out becomes a LOT more thematic towards this end (Mafioso could be “Hitman” instead), and they could have new roles centered around hiding their existence and ridding the Town of Coven. So how can Mafia win? If Godfather survives to the end with Town, then Town LOSES and the Mafia WINS, as the Mafia just killed all their rivals for Town control. If Godfather stays in the shadows, they become the main authority in the Town. So Town is invested in revealing the Godfather and Coven/Apocs have a direct threat.
@@oliverparis3361 The Godfather would have Defense at night probably, and would show up as No Blood/Not The Killer/Inno. HOWEVER... They could ALSO have a daytime ability that gives them a secret vote for Guilty/Inno during a trial. How does it work? When the Godfather activates this ability during a trial, the results would show "LAWYER Voted Guilty/Inno". Godfather would only have 3 uses of it, but it's an extra secret vote that Godfather can have, to swing things in favor of the Mafia. This can hard-counter Prosecutor, as the ability could be used DURING A PROSECUTOR TRIAL (assuming the Godfather still has a use of it). How is that important? It could vote Inno when the Pros votes Guilty, which ACQUITS the Pros's Target! The Mafia were FAMOUS for avoiding justice, due to their deep connections in law enforcement.... I LOVE the idea of counterplay like that!
Ima be real with you chief - the ONLY NB that was good was Amnesiac, because he could be anything, adding chaos and activity by actually having a side. Survivor is the, in my humble opinion, WORST role of entire roaster. People be hatin' on Framer (Who commits even more chaos in Sequel since he got in Coven) and Disguiser (same situation), but they did more funny than Survivor ever will do Guardian Angel is a clutch source but he also was quite the finnicky one - hes enjoyable but him turning into Admirer is better, again, for me Current Amnesiac is Old Amnesiac's clutch minus the ability to own your destiny and picking side (I am now CORONER) I also miss Mafia's return, but with current Coven, the only return of Mafia i can imagine is Neutral role like Witch was before Coven
I wish amne was the same as in tos1 but you are forced to remember a role by night 2 to avoid the whole kingmaker thing that the devs wanna avoid. I just think it's kinda pointless the way it currently is and it was more fun when they could remember any faction.
hey for the serial killer animation and kill animation topic, maybe in the settings you can turn off death animations for people who dont like them, or keep them on
I feel like cursed/wandering souls would need a nerf outside their game mode... Like it doesnt swap with a faction... (if they target a faction they kill them? Roleblock them? Like auditor?)
So, I know this is an old video, but why not do a vampires type solution to the Mafia (i.e. a Mafia Returns playlist in the playlist rotation that has the mafia, but the mafia roles cannot exist outside that playlist)
You know what I would love to see? Another 4 horsemen to really flesh out the faction. Make Bers an Apocalypse Killing, and add in another AK in Meltdown (Nuclear Apocalypse, from TBoI: Fiend Folio), Make Pest an Apocalypse Utility and add in another AU in Pollution (from Good Omens). Make SC an Apocalypse Power and Famine the Apocalypse Support.
@@forgottenetremembered What’s it, Heatwave the Apoc Support? Makes sense, pollution brings climate change just as pestilence brings famine Pre-transformation those could very easily be Bomber, Meteorologist, and Tycoon Another Edit: Death kinda has to be the 4th Horseman no matter what so what if the Apoc Power can be a different role that still becomes death
@@Lylybeebee meteo sounds good tho we need another name more generally for the weather horseman when transformed tho, maybe "Catastrophe" is a good name Support generally is also very much like Utility.
coven makes more sense thematically. after all, the name of the game and the time period it seems to be in are both references to the salem witch trials. why would you not have a witch themed evil faction?
I personally do NOT think that we need a new faction for Town of Salem 2. In the first game it wouldn’t be uncommon for town to be in the minority, and that made it much harder to win as them. I do not want that to happen to town of Salem 2.
Rip dreams of Mafia DLC (The earliest joke i made about this game). But hopes aint dead, Its a mather of time till moders and the comunity think of someting *If* mafia will not be a thing lmao
@@DespOIcito Forces To make Mafia unique, Or an unique game mode were Og maf are present whit updates looks ( Mafia returns lul/Could be structured like Ranked Practice role list from ToS1) It def has its usess tbh
@@Darkpq1742 can you explain what that would be? every mafia ability from tos1 (except hypno) is in the coven right now. there'd be zero reason to reintroduce them when they'd basically just be "coven but different name and weaker"
My TOS2 review: The balance change between town and evil factions has been wildly revised, however it's swung in the opposite direction. Low skill games will almost always result in town being stomped to death by buffed coven roles and nerfed town roles. The removal of kingmakers is an interesting design choice however the net result is less skill as the majority of these roles simply sided with the first faction that helped them or contacted them. I am happy that the Ritualist was reworked so they couldn't guess TI roles as the role was quite toxic before that point. I specifically dislike the new town roles Amnesiac and Coroner, which appear to be wildly underpowered. My favorite role in TOS, the transporter, was reimagined as the trickster, a role that can't provide support nor confirm themself. Escort was nerfed from a middling role to a Tavern Keeper who is limited as to who they may roleblock. I have no idea what spy is supposed to do given his inability to see faction visits. I strongly dislike removing the unique status from Vet. I love the inclusion of the new Deputy and prosecutor roles. Seer and admirer are interesting additions to the game. I understand the intent was to redesign the game in such a way that ranked was more consistent and balanced. However this has come at the cost of nerfing roles that were not overpowered. The nerf to transporter/trickster is frankly a step that makes the game less fun as now it's just a weird, amorphous support vet who has no ability to confirm themselves. The removal of king makers makes the game less fun as there's no meta game scramble to alliance build. 6.5/10
The thing is..., Kingmakers still exist with Jesters/Exe/Few other neutrals because even though Exe leaves town, if they haven't left, there's a good chance that they'll instead decide to draw the game (if they have the right target and the other faction actually decides to let them win, OR the faction who is targetted by the exe decides that it's fair nothing can be done about the game and forces a draw). A similar situation is given to jest and many other neutral roles in the game like town deciding to give wins to covens/neutrals or the exact opposite (like Shroud choosing to give town win if they can't kill the last coven) instead, I don't think kingmaker was changed at all if anything the only excuse to want to ''remove'' it was to just justify not doing anything about the rest of the roles and making very tiny changes to neutrals like pirates or executioners leaving town
Considering you keep referring to trickster as being like transporter I’m going to assume you haven’t played the game sense it’s earlier stages in balancing as trickster has been completely reworked to being a killing role and no longer shares any similarity transporter Also im confused on why low skill players usually losing is a bad thing? That’s how a competition works. The higher skill team wins. Tavern keeper was changed for the reason of if you found who the coven killing role was you can’t just role-block them all game and give town all the time in the world making them potentially the most OP role in the game and guaranteed coven loss.
Omg idea if the guys are looking at comments godfather neutral evil you have no attack and basic defense you choose someone to put a bounty on them and if they die at night you collect that bounty and after 3 bounties you leave the town
As for the vampire add Dracula he get to control who they bite and then add the evil princesses and have them like a hunted ability that prevents you from using your ability at night and day until the next night ,I think they should add the pope as like a converting role that converts a vampire into town member and if the town member was a town member at the start they get there role back but aren’t able to talk anymore but if he picks the person that’s the Dracula they die as in the (pope) but if they pick a regular vampire or a princess then the vampire princess dies as if they’ve been cleansed and then have the amount of vampires infinite if You are on the list you become Dracula first so like one to 15 if you one you become him first and if you’re 15 you become him last
The reason no one plays Dracula's Palace is because no one wants to be forced into a dedicated game mode for a single role. Edit: Vampire Hunter should return as Monster Hunter, and has a powerful attack that can kill Vampires, Werewolves, Serial Killers, Arsonists, and Shrouds. (all the NK's + Vampires.)
Regarding old meta strats: I used to be the most wicked guardian angel for wins. Get myself confirmed as GA than instantly push to have my target killed by hanging or at night. Why? Because I'd be a confirmed surv that people usually left alone.
@@InsertFunnyThingHere I’m not trying to debate if it should be or not or anything, but according to the rule of ToS you must play your current win condition and going against that condition intentionally is classified as gamethrowing
My biggest disappointment is the fact the game is pay to play for such a simple design, shame, guess ill join a different community then. (cough cough stormgate)
Time stamps:
1:58 Have there been any roles added to the game that received the complete opposite reaction to what you expected?
4:31 How long have stats been tracked? Are they being tracked in Town of Salem 2 right now?
7:09 Do the developers like VFR/VFA?
12:00 Was there anything you disliked in Town of Salem 1 and tried to remove in Town of Salem 2?
16:09 I ask a selfish question that I didn’t prepare Rus for 😬
17:46 Will the mafia faction ever come back? Will any other factions be added?
20:20 What was your biggest programming challenge when making ToS/ToS2?
23:59 Will vampires get a larger debut outside of Dracula’s Palace? Will Vampire Hunter be added to the game?
30:42 Were there any cut roles from Town of Salem 1 that made it into Town of Salem 2?
32:23 What are your thoughts on other variations of Town of Salem? (Throne of lies, Mafia, etc)
34:08 Got any tips for aspiring game developers?
37:26 What is the future of Traitors in Salem?
38:55 What do you think of Town of Salem mods?
42:24 (my question) Why did you spell “jailer” with an “o”
42:54 I start laughing at the answer to the above question for the next 2 minutes
Thank you for the time stamps mate!
Thanks
Holy moly I didn't expect my vampire question to be here. That was fun! Even if vampires don't comeback as big as before, we still have ToS 1 for that. Also random little sidenote, Werwolves can smell people now in the patch? I don't think I've been more excited to hear about werewolf in my life! All in all if the developers see this, thank you for six whole years of fun and hopefully even more to come. And thanks for taking time to read my question lol.
THANK YOU Aidga for getting a TOWN OF SALEM DEVELOPER to answer OUR questions
Oh god not here too
it’s spreading
@@Adagia LOL
Whyyyyyyyy, not the plague!!!!
Damm you pipton ¡!!!!!!!
Hypnotist would be an excellent addition to a hypothetical Vampire faction! Using Vampire powers to cause Townies to hallucinate would be a FANTASTIC and thematic addition!
Damn rus did interviews with like 5 TH-camrs. That's some serious dedication
A vamp faction could be interesting. Having a Dracula, a brood, and expand from there
I think vampire hunter should be a neutral role and leave when vamps die
That would be cool in vampire palace mode.
I am in full agreement with this
Sounds really great.
Yeah, I always felt like VH should've been a neutral of some kind, it really seems like their goals don't have much to do with town at all until they turn vigi and even other evils tend to leave them until that point so that they can do their thing.
I disagree, because no one except Vampires would want them dead then, in contrast to the others neutrals, like Shroud and Doomsayer and Pirate who are a threat to everyone
I always loved vampires and mafia. Mafia always felt like the subtle faction, while coven was the bold and powerful faction. Mafia was there to confuse town with its information. Vampires felt like a slow burn. If you didn’t deal with them they came back to bite you, literally.
vampires were a nuisance, annoying town and being boring to play
I'm surprised one of the question wasn't ; "Can you stop Pipetron from killing me?". That being said, great interview Ada!
Surprisingly, this wasn't made a premiere.
Appreciate the dev answers regardless.
Since all of mafia's roles were rolled into coven, I don't see them coming back. However, I bet many who miss them probably miss the chaos from having 3 opposing factions. Neutral Apocalypse roles are seemingly filling that void, but I think it'd be really cool if there could be a gamemode where coven is split into two opposing factions and the several coven roles can be divided between them, since there are so many now. Maybe explain it as the coven discovering a second evil book creating a rift between members. Necronomicon vs. Tome of Shadows. Or Invokers vs. Alchemists. Or whatever cool witch faction names.
that's actually a really cool idea. with there being 15 different coven roles now, there more than enough to go around to make it fair for both teams.
YOOOO 17:46 THAT'S MY QUESTION!!!!!!!
Also the thumbnail being my question lmao
Nice lol
Here's roles i think need to be tweaked a bit
Serial killer: as strong as they made it already, i think a rather necessary (and one that just makes sense in the whole "im a serial killer aspect") change is giving you bloodlust after successfully attacking twice, doesnt matter if you kill them, you just need to attack.
Admirer: now this role is much better than it originally was, but I'm not so convinced neutral benign was a bad thing when the neutral benign had a clear side, and i think admirer should be neutral benign, and if their target dies i think they should leave the town out of shame, but maybe they get 3 " cares" rather than just two
Amnesiac: this is another role that like admirer, could be much better to be and play if we just removed them from town, all amnesiac is at the moment... Is just waiting an extra night for your role... That's no fun, unless... You can remember anything... Now I think amne should be neutral benign and then randomly picks a dead person to remember (I'd prefer if they actually had the choice but ya know) or if you keep it a town role, don't *automatically* remember a role, let them wait and remember at a later time in the game, because sheriff might not be as useful N2 as Crus would've been N3
Vampire hunter and vamps: I also think Vampire Hunter should be a neutral benign role that's sole goal is (you'll never guess) get all vamps out of the game and then leave the town (but wait... Theres more) i want a necromancer to be able to use vamps to convert townies and if they did and the vampire hunter has already left... They get a cool animation of them coming back, now ridding the town of them the first time is already a win, but could just leave for some more fun? Oh and vampires should be stronger the more of them that exist (1 just basic attack, 2 basic defense too, 3 powerful attack basic defense, 4 powerful attack powerful defense [and of course all defense is lost during the day cuz ya know... The sun])
Thank you Adagia for putting together this QnA, and thank you TraitorRus for answering our questions! It's always fun to get a peek behind the scenes of game development. I'm really happy my question actually got in, and the answer has definitely inspired me to keep pushing forwards with game development. I still need to focus on learning basic coding before I try and do anything *too* crazy, though.
Love your vods, keep em coming :p (and i love that you are not alone anymore in pipe games, everyone adopted the same strategy so no one gets bullied in all games just for having their name), and for the third thing i love, i love seeing you in pipe games after all that time (watching you both for years) and most of my favorite pipton videos have you in them. Now the fourth thing i love would be that you posted more videos. But if it takes you a long time to make the amazing stuff you post i wont complain. 😂😅. (The dev had a huge fan energy about your channel) (sorry for the long message xd).
Honestly, the answer for the vfr question is really good, i really liked it. Vfa is probably
The happy medium that the game balance needs. Town can get info, and there is enough guesswork involved that rit and doom will have to be good or lucky at scumreading. Especially when the coroner and jailor swap claims lol
TBH what would be an idea is a "Modern Day" Game-Mode where you basically have the same roles mechanically, but they're called different in some cases and have different 'shilouettes'
Changes could be for town like:
Cleric -> Doctor
Bodyguard -> Gets a more Modern-Day Shilouette.
And then the Coven is replaced by Mafia instead.
Coven Leader -> Godfather
Hex Master -> Bomber
Witch -> Manipulator
Dreamweaver -> Hypnotist
Enchanter -> Framer
Illusionist -> Disguiser
Medusa -> Janitor
Jinx -> Ambusher
Ritualist -> Hitman
Conjurer -> Assassin
Necromancer -> Puppeteer
Poisoner -> Would keep the name
Potion Master -> Consigliere
Voodoo Master -> Blackmailer
Wildling -> Stalker
And instead of the Necronomicon they have some other thing that empowers them, something that signifies Leadership in the Mafia or something.
SC2 Mafia had the Triad as a third faction in addition to the Town and Mafia. The Triad roles were identical to the Mafia roles just with different names. It was just a mechanism to have three factions in one game. People really seem to miss the possibility of playing a game with three factions. I don't see why they shouldn't do this.
Always a good day when Adagia uploads any video! Glad most of our questions are answered, and the bit about VFR/VFA was super informative!
hey adagia hope this helps about the jailer/jailor mistake
Jailor with an O is a noun meaning a person in charge of a jail or of the prisoners in it.
Jailer with an E is a noun meaning a person who jails people.
this is what i've seen in my research
a person is definitely not a verb
@@amongsussyballs yeah mb ill edit it real quick
@@aSmolGoth English is too weird man
THANK YOU Adgaia for getting the NEW Developer Role to answer OUR questions
I hate the fact we don’t have any nbs but tbf kingmakers only delayed the game further and make it unenjoyable for all parties involved
I found it fun when I was kingmaker
Kingmakers were what made the “Social” of Social Deduction, as you could make alliances, while that is not possible now. Sure, you can deceive, but no more “Hey, Im PM, know ur Surv, please side” to get an extra coven vote to maj
Not really
Doing everything right and still losing just because the kingmaker doesn’t pick you is the worst. I’m glad NBs aren’t in the game
@@Pam2341
Interesting. My response to your Survivor video was to think of ways to make the role healthier. So I was actually disappointed to see Survivor gone, precisely _because_ you made that video.
My concept was something like
- You get 4 visits but no vests (exact number depends on balance). GA turned Surv gets no visits
- Visiting makes you absent at your own home, but you die if your visit's home is attacked that night
- Tracker and Lookout can soft-confirm you, attackers will hard-confirm you (to the attacker)
- Maybe Spy should also be able to hard-confirm you? Depends on balance
- Maybe you have to win (and survive, obv) with the faction you visited most recently? Depends on balance. In that case, GA turned Surv wins with the faction they used to watch over
survivor is just a bad role its good it is gone
@dimlockfork5170 one thing it did give is evils something to fake that didn't get outted immediately for fake wills. Sure you can argue that it's more skill but even skilled fakers are still faking and will be caught out by things outside of their control. So it is nice for evils to have something to fall back on.
Granted it makes playing the fallback role a little rough but town has very powerful process of elimination that can feel too strong at times.
@@Sovietmass in my games i always got survivors voted out if someone claimed it
Got a Funny Mafia + Vamp Idea while watching:
Mafia recruiter. Can try to Recruit targets every other night. The target (if town) has two choices, *Join them* or *Challenge them*.
-If they choose to *join* they become like a Young Vampire/mafia. They will be the one to attack the votes target.
-If they Challenge, it’s a 50/50 or so chance of death, if the target lives however, they know who was the Recruiter is.
Every other night when the Mafia is not Recruiting, they can vote/choose to attack a target and the Newest member will be sent to attack.
wacky mafia idea I just had to share
I'm gonna have to come back to this to listen to the Q&A, I was too busy watching the games in the background to pay attention lol
Ghost town was such a great idea, but mentioning specifically friends playing together points out an issue. How do you make it IRL or on a voice chat so that the dead can see the living's info but still talk the game out to each other?
I think that vamps could work well if instead vamps prompt someone to make a choice, 1) be converted to vamps or 2) fight back, refusing to change but only have a 50% chance of surviving to the next day. It would incentivise joining but wouldn't force you if you really hate them. And gambling can be fun.
I like this train of thought, although I feel like the player's choice shouldnt screw vampires too hard.
Maybe at day vampires can choose who to visit, and at night that player gets visited by a vampire and presented with the choice. If the target agrees to be converted, they do, otherwise the target is attacked as normal. Would give vets an edge though so idk what other rebalancing would be needed.
they would have to be roleblocked or something
It doesn’t really fix the problem though of people hating being converted, now it’s just a “be a vamp or you probably die”
So you get a 50% chance to survive and instantly out the vampires? Doesn't seem to fair for vamps if refusing doesn't punish you. And it opens the path for rng screwing you over, a guaranteed outcoume would be the best. Either a guranteed kill, maybe a silence or some kind of douse/hex for the refusing players would give them an incentive to accept.
But giving the players a choice would solve the problem of the conversion controversy, if you prefer dying over switching sides.
the resistance ability makes me imagine a scenario:
"i was bitten but survived"
"lol no u accepted get on stand guilty"
Thank you Adagia for getting a Town of Salem Developer to Answer OUR Questions
Great video, Always great to see you upload.
I'm not sure why your laugh never fails to make me grin.
jinx kinda counters itself tbh, you need to visit people who arent visited so you dont get caught but you need to visit someone who is visited to actually use your ability
For some context on the original rendition of shroud, on a 7-8 year old stream Pyro and Ahkilles did a Q&A and one of the questions was what new roles were planned for the game. 4 roles were mentioned, Zombie, Town Crier, Plaguebearer and Shadow-Walker.
Zombie's mechanics were unknown.
Plaguebearer was added in the coven dlc, but originally they didn't have Pestilence planned.
Town Crier would have been able to anonymously talk to the entire town at night.
Shadow-Walker functioned the exact same was as shroud which was then added in tos2.
Could Zombie have been a early Vampire?
@@DailyNightmares100 No, this was after the vampires released.
Originally, Vampire were likely to be a role called "Cultist". Remnants of the role exist in the files as Consigliere results.
Cultist did make a return in Traitors in Salem as a conversion role, just like it would've been in TOS1.
I was absolutely elated that NBs and vampires are gone from AA. I have to admit, though, I appreciate the uniqueness of Vampire Hunter being able to read more chat. I kind of like abilities that expand into the chat and social part of the game in addition to strategy, the way Spy, Disguiser, BMer, and Wildling have done. It's more up to the player to make use of it.
The "Thank you ___" Plague has spreaded amongst the ToS TH-camrs. Awakening Pestilence the horseman of the apocalypse 1!1111!!11
This video ended so fast how was that 45 minutes?
Great video.
THANK you ADAGIA for GETTING a TOWN OF SALEM DEVELOPER to ANSWER OUR QUESTIONS
Thank you, Adagia, for having a Town of Salem developer answer OUR questions!
*Cyborg*
*Nuclear Operative*
*Mafioso*
42:38 the word is "Jailer" but if its a noun it's spelled "Jailor"
They need to add back maf.
You know what Mafia should be? The dark side of the Town faction.
Mafia’s goal would be to pretend to be Townies, while eliminating enemies to the town. They get auto-revealed if their Godfather gets guiltied and hung, and they can no longer win once their Godfather is revealed.
Their goal is to stay in the shadows and not get voted up, while doing the Town’s dirty work.
Godfather sending Mafioso out becomes a LOT more thematic towards this end (Mafioso could be “Hitman” instead), and they could have new roles centered around hiding their existence and ridding the Town of Coven.
So how can Mafia win? If Godfather survives to the end with Town, then Town LOSES and the Mafia WINS, as the Mafia just killed all their rivals for Town control. If Godfather stays in the shadows, they become the main authority in the Town.
So Town is invested in revealing the Godfather and Coven/Apocs have a direct threat.
This is a good idea, there's just one issue: other than sending out the mafioso, what can they actually do?
@@oliverparis3361 The Godfather would have Defense at night probably, and would show up as No Blood/Not The Killer/Inno. HOWEVER...
They could ALSO have a daytime ability that gives them a secret vote for Guilty/Inno during a trial. How does it work? When the Godfather activates this ability during a trial, the results would show "LAWYER Voted Guilty/Inno". Godfather would only have 3 uses of it, but it's an extra secret vote that Godfather can have, to swing things in favor of the Mafia.
This can hard-counter Prosecutor, as the ability could be used DURING A PROSECUTOR TRIAL (assuming the Godfather still has a use of it). How is that important? It could vote Inno when the Pros votes Guilty, which ACQUITS the Pros's Target! The Mafia were FAMOUS for avoiding justice, due to their deep connections in law enforcement....
I LOVE the idea of counterplay like that!
Congrats on your interview!
8:32 Unrelated to commentary but this clip was too funny
"why u no vote"
"Stoned and eating pizza"
"my b"
*"goodbye"*
*"forever"*
Ima be real with you chief - the ONLY NB that was good was Amnesiac, because he could be anything, adding chaos and activity by actually having a side. Survivor is the, in my humble opinion, WORST role of entire roaster. People be hatin' on Framer (Who commits even more chaos in Sequel since he got in Coven) and Disguiser (same situation), but they did more funny than Survivor ever will do
Guardian Angel is a clutch source but he also was quite the finnicky one - hes enjoyable but him turning into Admirer is better, again, for me
Current Amnesiac is Old Amnesiac's clutch minus the ability to own your destiny and picking side (I am now CORONER)
I also miss Mafia's return, but with current Coven, the only return of Mafia i can imagine is Neutral role like Witch was before Coven
This vid gameplay looks like PipeTron
It is. He sent me some raw gameplay so I didn’t have to spend an hour recording my own- it’s credited in the description
holy shit the video is long.
Thanks for the vid!
I wish amne was the same as in tos1 but you are forced to remember a role by night 2 to avoid the whole kingmaker thing that the devs wanna avoid.
I just think it's kinda pointless the way it currently is and it was more fun when they could remember any faction.
Hey guys am totally not vigilante
hey for the serial killer animation and kill animation topic, maybe in the settings you can turn off death animations for people who dont like them, or keep them on
I feel like cursed/wandering souls would need a nerf outside their game mode...
Like it doesnt swap with a faction... (if they target a faction they kill them? Roleblock them? Like auditor?)
Social deduction game devs try not to spell everything that ends with an E with an O challenge (impossible)
So, I know this is an old video, but why not do a vampires type solution to the Mafia (i.e. a Mafia Returns playlist in the playlist rotation that has the mafia, but the mafia roles cannot exist outside that playlist)
You know what I would love to see? Another 4 horsemen to really flesh out the faction. Make Bers an Apocalypse Killing, and add in another AK in Meltdown (Nuclear Apocalypse, from TBoI: Fiend Folio), Make Pest an Apocalypse Utility and add in another AU in Pollution (from Good Omens). Make SC an Apocalypse Power and Famine the Apocalypse Support.
make one that controls weather?
idk
@@forgottenetremembered What’s it, Heatwave the Apoc Support? Makes sense, pollution brings climate change just as pestilence brings famine
Pre-transformation those could very easily be Bomber, Meteorologist, and Tycoon
Another Edit: Death kinda has to be the 4th Horseman no matter what so what if the Apoc Power can be a different role that still becomes death
@@Lylybeebee meteo sounds good
tho we need another name more generally for the weather horseman when transformed tho, maybe "Catastrophe" is a good name
Support generally is also very much like Utility.
Can anyone send me a link to the pm art used in the thumbnail?
If you DM me on discord I’ll get you the transparent png! @just_adagia
@@Adagia alright, thanks!
Guard the Body
Honestly glad mafia is gone. I like uniqness of coven over mafia by far. Apocalypse is also a great and unique faction as well.
coven makes more sense thematically. after all, the name of the game and the time period it seems to be in are both references to the salem witch trials. why would you not have a witch themed evil faction?
I personally do NOT think that we need a new faction for Town of Salem 2. In the first game it wouldn’t be uncommon for town to be in the minority, and that made it much harder to win as them. I do not want that to happen to town of Salem 2.
Counter argument: add 10 new factions
Rip dreams of Mafia DLC (The earliest joke i made about this game).
But hopes aint dead, Its a mather of time till moders and the comunity think of someting *If* mafia will not be a thing lmao
What would be the point of adding Mafia? Basically all of their abilities are in the Coven right now
@@DespOIcito Forces To make Mafia unique, Or an unique game mode were Og maf are present whit updates looks ( Mafia returns lul/Could be structured like Ranked Practice role list from ToS1)
It def has its usess tbh
@@Darkpq1742 can you explain what that would be? every mafia ability from tos1 (except hypno) is in the coven right now. there'd be zero reason to reintroduce them when they'd basically just be "coven but different name and weaker"
My TOS2 review:
The balance change between town and evil factions has been wildly revised, however it's swung in the opposite direction. Low skill games will almost always result in town being stomped to death by buffed coven roles and nerfed town roles. The removal of kingmakers is an interesting design choice however the net result is less skill as the majority of these roles simply sided with the first faction that helped them or contacted them. I am happy that the Ritualist was reworked so they couldn't guess TI roles as the role was quite toxic before that point.
I specifically dislike the new town roles Amnesiac and Coroner, which appear to be wildly underpowered. My favorite role in TOS, the transporter, was reimagined as the trickster, a role that can't provide support nor confirm themself. Escort was nerfed from a middling role to a Tavern Keeper who is limited as to who they may roleblock. I have no idea what spy is supposed to do given his inability to see faction visits. I strongly dislike removing the unique status from Vet. I love the inclusion of the new Deputy and prosecutor roles. Seer and admirer are interesting additions to the game.
I understand the intent was to redesign the game in such a way that ranked was more consistent and balanced. However this has come at the cost of nerfing roles that were not overpowered. The nerf to transporter/trickster is frankly a step that makes the game less fun as now it's just a weird, amorphous support vet who has no ability to confirm themselves. The removal of king makers makes the game less fun as there's no meta game scramble to alliance build.
6.5/10
The thing is..., Kingmakers still exist with Jesters/Exe/Few other neutrals because even though Exe leaves town, if they haven't left, there's a good chance that they'll instead decide to draw the game (if they have the right target and the other faction actually decides to let them win, OR the faction who is targetted by the exe decides that it's fair nothing can be done about the game and forces a draw). A similar situation is given to jest and many other neutral roles in the game like town deciding to give wins to covens/neutrals or the exact opposite (like Shroud choosing to give town win if they can't kill the last coven) instead, I don't think kingmaker was changed at all if anything the only excuse to want to ''remove'' it was to just justify not doing anything about the rest of the roles and making very tiny changes to neutrals like pirates or executioners leaving town
Considering you keep referring to trickster as being like transporter I’m going to assume you haven’t played the game sense it’s earlier stages in balancing as trickster has been completely reworked to being a killing role and no longer shares any similarity transporter
Also im confused on why low skill players usually losing is a bad thing? That’s how a competition works. The higher skill team wins.
Tavern keeper was changed for the reason of if you found who the coven killing role was you can’t just role-block them all game and give town all the time in the world making them potentially the most OP role in the game and guaranteed coven loss.
Omg idea if the guys are looking at comments godfather neutral evil you have no attack and basic defense you choose someone to put a bounty on them and if they die at night you collect that bounty and after 3 bounties you leave the town
As for the vampire add Dracula he get to control who they bite and then add the evil princesses and have them like a hunted ability that prevents you from using your ability at night and day until the next night ,I think they should add the pope as like a converting role that converts a vampire into town member and if the town member was a town member at the start they get there role back but aren’t able to talk anymore but if he picks the person that’s the Dracula they die as in the (pope) but if they pick a regular vampire or a princess then the vampire princess dies as if they’ve been cleansed and then have the amount of vampires infinite if You are on the list you become Dracula first so like one to 15 if you one you become him first and if you’re 15 you become him last
The reason no one plays Dracula's Palace is because no one wants to be forced into a dedicated game mode for a single role.
Edit: Vampire Hunter should return as Monster Hunter, and has a powerful attack that can kill Vampires, Werewolves, Serial Killers, Arsonists, and Shrouds. (all the NK's + Vampires.)
I felt like I sat in a 45 minute flirting session.
Regarding old meta strats:
I used to be the most wicked guardian angel for wins.
Get myself confirmed as GA than instantly push to have my target killed by hanging or at night.
Why? Because I'd be a confirmed surv that people usually left alone.
My dude, that’s literally a bannable offense and gamethrowing 💀
@@Adagiahow tho, he's winning
@@InsertFunnyThingHere as a GA your goal is to protect your target at all costs. by pushing them to get killed you're gamethrowing against yourself.
lmao bro got called out by adagia
@@InsertFunnyThingHere I’m not trying to debate if it should be or not or anything, but according to the rule of ToS you must play your current win condition and going against that condition intentionally is classified as gamethrowing
Shroud Gaming
Am I the only person on the planet that misses medium
Medium was one of my favorite roles from the first game.
Did you lose the game at the end of the video?
Here is an idea.
When you are an NK if there is a second one you get a message saying that there I another shroud or whatever
My biggest disappointment is the fact the game is pay to play for such a simple design, shame, guess ill join a different community then. (cough cough stormgate)
who still plays this
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