As a Muslim musician, i long for those days when music alongside other arts and all sciences were at the core of islamic civilizations. Now we are, on the average, so dull and backward thinking that from being a vanguard for humanity we turned ourselves into... Great video as usual, Filip.
Paco de Lucia made an album in the 90s called Ziryab, so I imagine he considered him to be an important contributor to Andalusian musical culture. It's possible (as you suggest) that without Ziryab we may not have the guitar today. Thanks for this interesting lecture.
Very good narration and edition video, congratulations!!! For me, Zyriab and his school are the roots of flamenco, fado, Moroccian and sefarditic musics.
Very nice Filip! Apparently Ziryab also introduced the game of Chess, or as it was know as Shattranj to Muslim Spain, of which he was a master player. What a mind he must have had for strategy, knowing movements on the Oud, and chess board!
Yüreğinize teşekkürler.Ziryap 822 yılında, şimdiki İspanya sınırları içinde olan, zamanın Endülüs Devleti’nin önemli şehri Kurtuba’da (Cordoba)sanatının doruğuna ulaşır. Ziryab lakaplı bir Kürd, ülkenin ilk müzik konservatuarını açar.Ziryab, 789 yılında Musul’un bir köyünde dünyaya gelir. Ziryap ismi sesinin saflığı ve duruluğundan Kürdçedeki altın su anlamındaki ’zer ab/av’ isminden dolayı verilmişti.
I really appreciate your videos, inspiration, informative stories, the quality of your videos into the history of multi-cultural music. We could not possibly live without music!!
Amazing video! It got me so much more interested in the traditional music of my hometown (Tétouan). I've just subscribed and I'm going to be watching the rest of your videos ASAP.
Ziryab is a surname that some families in Libya still have The meaning of the title “Golden Water” Without stealing, even Saladin If you see and read his full name u will find that he is Arab and even the area in which he was born was in the north of Baghdad and the Ayoubأل family never spoke Kurdish
He was kurdish and Muslim,but because of Root of the Music its come from kurdish Culture ,in way you can say every kurdish person he is Musician,Music its not Haram at all, those Topic have nothing with Islam ,where there are Beauty and Purity ,where there is Islam. And the reason is why in some how close to Persian because Persian language is derived from Kurdish Language and ( Arabic of course as well),the reality is not change ,Zyriab its mean Zeri Av ( water of Gold) but because in arabic they do not have V latter they pronaounced as B so its was becasme Zyriab inplace Zyriav. Its clear that he was Kurdish like Sun.
Ziryab was not Kurdish at all. He was known as Al Aswad. He was of Zanj origin. Read the history of Ibn Hayyan, kings of Al Andalus. Why is this man gas-lighting?
Hey! Thanks for the lovely introduction to Ziryab. I wonder whether you could make a video discussing the history and origins of different scales/maqamat, and the ones used in different regions at the time, could the blues scale have been used before the era of robert johnson? I wonder if i can find any reliable sources on this topic and you seem to know quite a lot regarding it. Thanks!
Zyriab is also much more than that. He litterally imported to european court the finest fashion (perfume ,hygiene, seasonnal clothing, etc.) . Enjoy learning !
I wonder if there is any real connection between him and the historic oud and buzuq producer “oud ziryab” in Damascus. Did he play a part in its foundation or were the founders of oud ziryab just influenced by him and gave him the name sake of their work
Of course the maker of oud Ziryab named his production after the musician Ziryab, there are alot of Musical Institutions and music Instruments marktes carry his Name, not only the one you mentioned in Damascus.
There are plenty sources that tell of Ziryab being a black man with African features, a citizen of the Abbasid caliphate, yes; But undoubtedly originating from North East Africa, possibly Egypt or Al-Sudan aka, the land of the blacks. Strange that you would give voice to those seeking to problematise this historical fact, rather than just cite the multiple sources attesting to his Africanicity. Strange indeed.
Hello, Filip! I'm so happy to see someone so passionate about the Oud. I was wondering, have you ever thought about making a tutorial on how to tune an Oud? That would be super helpful for total beginners. I'm looking forward to your next video!
Awesome video bro. You teach me much about my own culture. Especially the musical realm. btw if may I may ask, where did you purchase your Oud? I've wanted to start learning for a while now but I live in Germany and I'm afraid of buying a bad quality one. Shukran ya habib ❤️
So I have multple ouds. The one behind me in the video was made in the workshop of Maurice Shehata in Egypt and ordered directly from them. My newer Oud, which is the main one I use now, was instead made by Yildrim Palabyik in Turkey.
Thank you, very interesting! I heard that name before from a moroccan friend who also praised him as a great teacher, musician and person and talked about that period in Spain as a very openminded and tolerant time - that Ziryab was foreign, black-skinned and also gay, and nevertheless was respected and loved by all people in Andalucia, christians, jews and arabs.
Did any of his music survive today? I understand that he lived in times before musicians wrote music as they use today, does that mean his compositions vanished?
Ziryab was a kurdish or persian musician because his nickname means the golden water "zir: Gold" and "ab: Water". However it really doesn't matter if he was an arab, persian, kurd, african or whatever else after all he was just like the great Philosopher Al Kindi one of the best and most amazing Genies in history. Medina as one of the greatest centers of music! It's so difficult to imagine that 😂 Wow! I'm really surprised.
I was told Ziryab means "blackbird". But you are right - it does not matter. If kurds and iranians claim him to be kurdish or persian they show that they have a good taste.
Abu Ishaq al-Mosuli (persian) ,loved music and played the oud, so he was able to discover the talent of Zaryab, who was a slave at the time, and the relationship between The Master and the servant was strengthened, mosuli trusted him, loved him, appreciated him, and mosuli was famous for his habit The slaves were Released on religious occasions, and Mosuli and his wife to release him, and the sources remember that the story between them began when the Abbasid caliph asked Mosuli to hear him a new voice that he had never heard before, so he chose Mosuli on Zaryab, and when Zaryab began to sing, the caliph admired him more admiration, and asked Mosuli to take care of him and bring him Daily to the court. Zaryab moved from Baghdad to Andalusia two ways of singing and music: The way to sing on the origins of Nubia. The way to apply the rhythm of the lyric with the poetic rhythm. The oldest historical archaeological evidence of the oud machine dates back 5,000 years, when researchers found the oldest trace of the oud machine, in northern Syria, and found stone inscriptions representing women playing the oud. The oud is famous in ancient and contemporary history and many manufacturers were creative in making the oud machine, including Damascene, Baghdadi, Al-Masri, etc. Through a comparative study of a collection of oud relics discovered in various archaeological sites, it was established that the first appearance of the oud machine was in Mesopotamia and (Syrian Island) in the Acadian period 2350 2170 B.C. And the oud appeared in Egypt during the modern kingdom around 1580 -1090 B.C. after entering it from the Levant and oud appeared in Iran for the first time in the fifteenth century BC The history of the manufacture of the Arabic oud machine dates back to the 6th century AD when the Arabs came into contact with persians and took away from them this industry in which they created and developed it until it became the first instrument in the Arab musical bed and became a great place to become the sultan of Arab instruments to this day and the history of Arab musical civilization attests to names that were credited with developingAnd improve its performance and adjust its standards, we find on top of them the chief player of the oud machine Zalzal Mansour inventor of the oud machine, which he called al-Shabout and Zaryab, who took care of the acoustic side of the oud machine so that he made many modifications in the form of the oud machine by replacing the face of the oud machine present in his time of leather with wood as we find the great philosopher Abu Nasr al-Farabi Mr. Al-Oud's makers due to his studies and researches and his many works attest to this (great composer) and philosopher Abu Yusuf Yacoub bin Ishaq al-Kindi (805-873 AD), who translated many Greek works into Arabic and wrote many books, including (Letter in Music), and al-Kindi has elaborated on the study and legalization of the oud machine and created new systems and methods to play this instrument and control its sounds and places of intrigue. Zaryab is the reason for the invention of the scarves because he generalized the method of singing on the origins of Nubia, and this method was the reason for the invention of the scarves
Thank you for the insights. That era where culture intermingling together where we cant ignore the possibility that someone from africa might even adopted a persian surname and then this person became great.
As a persian I must say the meaning of Zaryab Is a person who find gold or seek to find gold Zar or zir mean: gold Yab: is derived from the verb YAFTAN which means: to find It's true that the (ab) mean (water) in persian , but your translation for ZARYAB is wrong !
His nickname-Zaryāb-literally means "gold-finder," which is an archaic Persian word for the crow. The name may have referred to his skin tone, his voice, or something else altogether.
@@mf1miran631 Golden water? Does that make a ounce of sense to you? In Persian: Zir (gold) + yab (finder) = raven (because they love shiny things). Ziryab means raven in Persian, and maybe in Kurdish too, because our languages are very much similar. Kurdish and Persian are both West Iranian languages.
It is a great injustice and nationalism for non-Arab Muslims to be attributed to themselves by calling Arabs Islamic culture and civilization Arab. The founders of the Abbasid caliph are Iranians and other Muslims. Most of the Islamic scholars are Iranian. The source of Islamic culture is Iran and Greece, Alexandria. Ziryab and his teacher ishak al locality are kurdish and music culture working in the palace of the Abbasid caliph of Mosul. Guitar and chess words may be in Persian. The exact etymology must be made. It doesn't make him a dark-skinned African or arab.
Hey Filip, I started a TH-cam channel myself and I aim to talk about philosophy and I was hoping to know what equipment you use or what equipment I can use if I have a really low budget (about 250 bucks).
@@FilipHolm I have only my iPhone’s camera, alas. It’s pretty decent; the problem for me is just the audio. If you know anything that can produce the sort of crisp, clean sound with the low budget, I would appreciate your help. I do plan on publishing videos in Arabic (as I am Egyptian myself) as well as English and I find your channel’s success inspirational.
@@aphilosophersphantom7208 I appreciate that! Hmm, it's difficult with that budget. Because aside from a microphone you're probably going to need some sort of external sound card with a pre-amp. Although I know that there are microphones that you plug in directly to your computer using USB and which sound pretty good. I don't really know which ones to recomend though, because I've never used them myself. Let me think on it a bit and I can get back to you!
ممنوع رفع العلم الوطني و المشي به في شوارع باب الواد...مخرخرات عبلة ستعتبرك حراكي راجل و يسجونوك...هههه.ربي سبحانو الحق بهدلكم و رخَّسَّكم فجعلكم تسجنون عجوز سنها 65 و إسمها دوادي فتيحة ..شهرين كاملين في زنزانة إنفرادية بسجن القليعة فقط لأنها حراكية...بلد يحكمه نزار و مهنة جبار و مازلتم في تشِّكم تمعهون
His more then as described "islamic" First thing first, his a highly talented, artistic, musician, intellect, a Kurdish person (as a Kurdish name; "Avezer" meaning; "golden water" because of he had a beautiful voice) or another name; Ziryab. In Kurdish culture, music override everything! Avezer, he never made it anything for islamic, indeed he brought Kurdish civilisation to Spain. This is a fact!
zaryab is a kurdish name he was born in the north of iraqi kurdestan according to history of ebn khaledoun most famous arab historian .so he inheritance music tradition of barbad and nakisa the famoue iranian and kurdish ssasanian musican
He was kurdish bro, read better the History , the reason is why in some how close to Persian because Persian language is derived from Kurdish Language and ( Arabic of course as well),the reality is not change ,Zyriab its mean Zeri Av ( water of Gold) but because in arabic they do not have V latter they pronaounced as B so its was becasme Zyriab inplace Zyriav. Its clear that he was Kurdish like Sun.
@@danadany211 I am open to all theories however as far as I have researched first of all Persian has never been a separate ethnic identity but referring to all Iranian peoples sharing certain common linguistic -cultural heritage moreover the separate kurdish identity and kurdish language has come to existence in the history far later than Persian language and culture , therefore Greek and Roman historians had always referred to Iranians as Persian without saying anything about Kurds at all , for this reason one cannot find any evidence of Kurdish language prior to Islamic era in other words prior to circa 13th century AD one cannot find NO kurdish language evidence at all .
Wrong Ziryab wasn't Persian he was Arab and his name is Ali bin Nafi He was named Ziryab by the arabian rulers and Ziryab mean a singing bird in Arabic because he used to sing too and it was an artistic giving name not his real name!
Sorry guitar didn't evolve from oud but from mauritanian zenaga guitar known as tidinit. It was brought by almoravid soldiers when they invaded andalucia. Tidinit has the same hour shape and single strings as the modern guitar. Tidinit is called ngoni in mali and xalam in senegal.
He was kurdish and Muslim,but because of Root of the Music its come from kurdish Culture ,in way you can say every kurdish person he is Musician. And the reason is why in some how close to Persian because Persian language is derived from Kurdish Language and ( Arabic of course as well),the reality is not change ,Zyriab its mean Zeri Av ( water of Gold) but because in arabic they do not have V latter they pronaounced as B so its was becasme Zyriab inplace Zyriav. Its clear that he was Kurdish like Sun.
@@VermontStrolls is not “Kordish” it’s called Kurdish Ziryab means Golden water in Kurdish He was from Mosul in Iraq Mosul was still majority Kurdish until 1800s Zir=Gold Yab= well, water
Arabic poetry is form of music because it is rely on notes called "Bahr" there are more of ten of those with a complication for each one , but the music instruments was always controversial.
Hey man I'm no expert but as far as I'm aware there's a variety of Islam called Sufism which has a strong historical relationship with the arts, music and dance especially. The whirling dervishes or the poet rumi are pretty famous examples of them. Their interaction with art is partly due to the mystical experiences felt by these Muslim musicians which brought them closer to Allah or so I understand
He was kurdish bro, read better the History , the reason is why in some how close to Persian because Persian language is derived from Kurdish Language and ( Arabic of course as well),the reality is not change ,Zyriab its mean Zeri Av ( water of Gold) but because in arabic they do not have V latter they pronaounced as B so its was becasme Zyriab inplace Zyriav. Its clear that he was Kurdish like Sun.
If course, he is kurd. There is no no ziryab in whole Arabien like a Name. Ziryab ist arabisation og the Name like most Names. The Arabes couldn't pronounce the name correctly. Ziryab is camping from Zorab, Which refers originally to a profession rather than a Name. Zorab is the profession, which refers to the saler of dried grapes. The name is still used in Iraqi Kurdistan. Duhok city was very well-known for it's richness for this kind of fruit. And saling it to the neighbour cities. The Name Zorab is still used widely in Iraqi Kurdistan. And I believe , you will find none of the Arabs with this name nowhere. So just tell me how can Ziryab be Arab or African... Just because, all parts of Kurdistan,are occupied by other ethnic,like Arabs, Turks, or persers, they systematically destroyed the history of the kurd nation, or simply added to their ones without shame.
But if you are not going accept the evidence of someone closer to Ziryab that he was clearly of black african origin, why even talk about him? What "authentic" sources are you using for him as historical person? The legend? This is quite disingenuous. You cannot cast doubt on the evidence of Ibn Hayyan, who clearly mentions this in his Kings of Al Andalus, and then assume other sources about him as an authentic.
He was kurdish bro, read better the History , the reason is why in some how close to Persian because Persian language is derived from Kurdish Language and ( Arabic of course as well),the reality is not change ,Zyriab its mean Zeri Av ( water of Gold) but because in arabic they do not have V latter they pronaounced as B so its was becasme Zyriab inplace Zyriav. Its clear that he was Kurdish like Sun
Zyriab was a Persian. Most historians (the most important historians on the history of medieval spain and, overall, on the history of the medieval world, like Joseph O’Callaghan) agree that Zyriab was a Persian.
He was kurdish bro, read better the History , the reason is why in some how close to Persian because Persian language is derived from Kurdish Language and ( Arabic of course as well),the reality is not change ,Zyriab its mean Zeri Av ( water of Gold) but because in arabic they do not have V latter they pronaounced as B so its was becasme Zyriab inplace Zyriav. Its clear that he was Kurdish like Sun
The Western world defines all Iranians as Persians without distinction. "Zer" means yellow. "Ab" comes from the word "av" in Kurdish. Zeryab Cizre is from Mosul. It has Kurdish culture.
@@mangolian theres a few research papers in this about how the man of culture teaches the muslims and the Europeans there about ethics etc with the permission of Sultan. But the knowledge of music etc made them more distant with the Quran
Nice video، thanks! I should mention that there is no such thing as "Islamic musicians" in the "Islamic world". One usually wouldn't describe Johann Sebastian Bach as "Christian musician" in the "Christian world". Why should it be different here? At least Bach created many sacred works, which Zaryab didn't. Islam is a religion that has followers in many different cultures and regions. The music made by Iranians is not the same as the Egyptian or Indian or Chinese music, yet there are millions of Iranian, Egyptian and Chinese Muslims. Islam has never produced anything artistic. It has suppressed arts and forced the artists to express their creativity in certain forms that could be hesitantly tolerated by the clerics, saving the artists from oppression and punishment, but you can't credit Islam with producing art! Just as you wouldn't credit a strangler a singer or a componist, just because a person who they are chocking makes a noise. Crediting Islam with everything artistic that has ever beed done in the Middle Eastern or Nord African cultures (without ever distinguishing the countries) is not only histroically and factually wrong, but also shows a condescending post-colonial lack of awareness that contradicts the subject of your interesting video. I'm aware that this kind of description is the norm and has been used thousends of times in many books, but that doesn't mean that it's correct. Sorry for the long rant :)
I disagree with most of what you say here. First of all, the term "Islamicate" (which is the term I use in the video to refer to Ziryab) is a general term that denotes the larger region that was ruled by Muslims and in which the Islamic intellectual tradition had become paradigm. So by invoking this word, no one is "crediting Islam". But on the other hand, to say things like "Islam has never produced anything artistic" not only betrays a narrow and problematic perspective on religion and its relationship with "culture" but is also just plainly false. Islam (as a religion) has been the catalyst for a ton of art across history, and often been the very patron of that art. Things like architecture, calligraphy, poetry and indeed music. While Ziryab himself may not have been a musician whose art is devotional in a direct sense (as far as we know), there is for example Sufism/tasawwuf in which the art of music has been developed and used as an essential part of Islamic religious practice and spirituality. The idea that Islamic "clerics" have oppressed art in a overarching sense in the way you describe is a historically inaccruate perspective. To claim that any art is produced outside of a particular paradgim and not controlled based on societal norms is very naive, and to highlight "Islam" as somehow unique in that sense is also simply not true. Also, I have heard Bach be referred to as a "Christian musician" before. And when talking about Europe in the pre-modern era, one often calls it the "Christian World" or "Christendom". With that said, there is definitely someting to be said for not generalizing the "Islamic World" into a monolith, but a diverse polity(ies) in which many cultures exist. And I agree that a lot of the time it might be more beneficial to specify what the particular context is, rather than to simply refer to the incredibly broad category of "Islamic/or Islamicate World". The reason I chose to call Ziryab a "Islamicate musician" is because his career spans across various different regions and his ethnic background is highly ambigous. Therefore, I concluded that the broader term "Islamicate" was sufficiently fuzzy yet informative.
Thank you for the response. Well, it's interesting that you think Islam has been a "catalyst" and "patron" for arts. Where and when did that happen? Which Ayatollah/Imam has ever paid anything for arts?! Do you know that especially music is considered "haram" in Islam? Of course, there are many books on "Islamic arts". That's one way to look at it, and many scholars have, but I think you should explain it to all those clerics who have banned music, dance, cinema, theater, paiting and basically every form of art and entertainment (in some cases, even soccer) and do so to this day. Also the artists should read this comment who had to give up painting objects and were forced to concentrate on calligraphy because it was the only form of fine arts that Islam had left them, those who were pursued, punished or killed throughout the history, because their art was labeled "unislamic", those who had to give up making music or singing or dancing because their art "distracted from religious thoughts"... I'm pretty sure neither group would appreciate your point of view :) Crediting Islam with art (or scientific accomplishments,, for that matter) is like complimenting a father for his daughter's graduation, although he never wanted her to go to school and beat her up because she made a stand against him. Yes, the fine arts did have a golden age in medival times in the Middle East, but it was primarily despite Islam, not because of it. I'm saying this as an Iranian who is familiar with the history of the region and its culture. In some rare cases, Bach has been refered to as a Christian musician, but surely not as the main and first adjective. German musician, famous musician, accomplished musician, baroque musician... But nobody hurries to refer to him as "Christian" as the first thing that comes to mind. Did the artists who "profited" from Islam and its "catalysis" in the Middle Ages have the freedom to openly turn their back on it, if they wished? How many nonbelivers and freethinkers who made art had to pretend that they were devoted Muslims, so that thousend years later the Western historians could label their work as "Islamic"? While Europe is sometimes refered to as the Christian world, nobody would refer to its entire history of art as "Christian". Europe is older and larger than Christianity, but at least the Catholic church has comissioned many art objects. I simply don't understand why and how the art of the Middle East+Nord Africa has to fit in the narrow confinement of its literal enemy, the Islam. I appologise for the long comment again and will try to avoid stealing your time more than I already have. I just wanted to offer a different point of view :)
@@a.riddlemethis795 Again, your understanding of Islam seems limited. The idea that music is "haram" in Islam is not the whole picture. Many Muslim scholars and jurists/ulama/clerics have considered music allowed and sometimes even encouraged it for religious practices. I can think of a number of "imams" who have been musical composers themselves or had musicians write music, such as Nizamuddin Auliya, Mahmud Hudai, Abu'l Hasan al-Shushtari and many more. Perhaps the greatest authority in Sunni Islam in history - al-Ghazali - defended music and its use for spiritual purposes. So the situation is significantly more complex than what you are presenting. To be clear, the permissibility of music has often been a heated debate in the Islamic world, no one is denying that. But there are always many voices from different sides of that debate, and not a one-sided view as you seem to perceive it. I appreciate you offering your perspective, though!
@Riddlemethis --- A different point of view for the sake of being an original! Well, I know a few originals with preconceived ideas and little substance (I won't mention names to allow your apparent thurst for real knowledge guide you toward them) and their deeds didn't have nice consequences!
Zyr means under and yab is a funder in Persian so under funder and zarr means Gold so zarryab means gold funder you should not decide that he was African dicended be sure he could be a Gipsy from than India and now Pakistan also
@@FilipHolm it is becoming a trend in North America to creat false stories and reverse the reality few years ago I red in wikipidia that the soviet union was the first country to have the equal right for men and women but now it says something else says usa than newziland and soviet is not even number 10
He was kurdish and Muslim,but because of Root of the Music its come from kurdish Culture ,in way you can say every kurdish person he is Musician, The reason is why in some how close to Persian because Persian language is derived from Kurdish Language and ( Arabic of course as well),the reality is not change ,Zyriab its mean Zeri Av ( water of Gold) but because in arabic they do not have V latter they pronaounced as B so its was becasme Zyriab inplace Zyriav. Its clear that he was Kurdish like Sun.
As a Muslim musician, i long for those days when music alongside other arts and all sciences were at the core of islamic civilizations. Now we are, on the average, so dull and backward thinking that from being a vanguard for humanity we turned ourselves into...
Great video as usual, Filip.
Paco de Lucia made an album in the 90s called Ziryab, so I imagine he considered him to be an important contributor to Andalusian musical culture. It's possible (as you suggest) that without Ziryab we may not have the guitar today. Thanks for this interesting lecture.
ziryab is persian zaryab means goldfinder oud invented by iranian and progrresed by arabs ziryab or zaryab was iranian
@@reshadjalali749 or someone from africa adopted a persian surname due to Abbasid was heavily persian influenced empire
Zîryab =Kurdish
Its a very good album also. The first work I actually listened from the Maestro.
Very good narration and edition video, congratulations!!! For me, Zyriab and his school are the roots of flamenco, fado, Moroccian and sefarditic musics.
he is from hawraman region of kurdistan original name is ziryaw
Very nice Filip!
Apparently Ziryab also introduced the game of Chess, or as it was know as Shattranj to Muslim Spain, of which he was a master player.
What a mind he must have had for strategy, knowing movements on the Oud, and chess board!
There is an endless stream of things claimed about Ziryab! Hard to say how many are true, but I'm sure some of them are!
no chess invented by indians centuries befor ziryab but yes he was professional in it and shattranj the name of chess by iranians and arabs
As I said … introduced. Check out the book, The immortal game by David Shenk. He writes about the genius of Ziryab!
Check Mate!
@@FilipHolmbut it kind of fits the ideals of an educated man of his age.
Yüreğinize teşekkürler.Ziryap 822 yılında, şimdiki İspanya sınırları içinde olan, zamanın Endülüs Devleti’nin önemli şehri Kurtuba’da (Cordoba)sanatının doruğuna ulaşır. Ziryab lakaplı bir Kürd, ülkenin ilk müzik konservatuarını açar.Ziryab, 789 yılında Musul’un bir köyünde dünyaya gelir. Ziryap ismi sesinin saflığı ve duruluğundan Kürdçedeki altın su anlamındaki ’zer ab/av’ isminden dolayı verilmişti.
Well presented and filled with solid content. I learned something new. Thanks.
Very important music history video.
Thanks for this information.
So happy to a found this channel!❤️
Your pronunciation of Arabic is very beautiful..and your knowledge of history and music!!!
Thank you!
I thought his arabic when he said his name 😂
I love the content & its narration
I really appreciate your videos, inspiration, informative stories, the quality of your videos into the history of multi-cultural music. We could not possibly live without music!!
Ziryab was a true artist ☀️
Clicked so fast. Already liked bc obviously it will be good, your channels are gold ✨
You are too kind 🙂 Thank you!
Fantastic video keep it up your doing amazing job.
Great documentary
Thank you!
I feel great after this documentary!
Very interesting information! Thanks
Excellent appraisal of Ziryab.
Thank you!
Ziryab is back baby!
Great video, well done and thank you!!!
Love you, brother.
Zeryab is from my hometown of Mosul, which is also known as Nineveh.
He was an Iraqi Kurd
Thanks for all the effort man. I am learning a lot about my own culture. Keep up the good work.
Amazing video! It got me so much more interested in the traditional music of my hometown (Tétouan). I've just subscribed and I'm going to be watching the rest of your videos ASAP.
Glad to hear it!
A fashionista of his time
Awesome lecture on Andalusian musical history!
Extremely substantial and edifying knowledge ; thanks a ton.
He was Kurdish ❤️☀️💚✌🏼
مع حبي واحترامي للاكراد لكنه كان اسود البشرة ، منطقيا لم يكن كردي
Ziryab is a surname that some families in Libya still have
The meaning of the title “Golden Water”
Without stealing, even Saladin If you see and read his full name u will find that he is Arab and even the area in which he was born was in the north of Baghdad and the Ayoubأل family never spoke Kurdish
@@إلياسالليثي-ك4م black?
يا اخي يوجد في كردستان اسمر الابشره
و زيراب كان اسمر الابشره ولم يكن اسود الابشره@@إلياسالليثي-ك4م
@@AHMEDALFourjani1998 are you serious?
Only a guy without any knowledge
Will say that... read a history and then come back to say those things
He was kurdish and Muslim,but because of Root of the Music its come from kurdish Culture ,in way you can say every kurdish person he is Musician,Music its not Haram at all, those Topic have nothing with Islam ,where there are Beauty and Purity ,where there is Islam. And the reason is why in some how close to Persian because Persian language is derived from Kurdish Language and ( Arabic of course as well),the reality is not change ,Zyriab its mean Zeri Av ( water of Gold) but because in arabic they do not have V latter they pronaounced as B so its was becasme Zyriab inplace Zyriav. Its clear that he was Kurdish like Sun.
Ziryab was not Kurdish at all. He was known as Al Aswad. He was of Zanj origin. Read the history of Ibn Hayyan, kings of Al Andalus. Why is this man gas-lighting?
Hey! Thanks for the lovely introduction to Ziryab. I wonder whether you could make a video discussing the history and origins of different scales/maqamat, and the ones used in different regions at the time, could the blues scale have been used before the era of robert johnson? I wonder if i can find any reliable sources on this topic and you seem to know quite a lot regarding it. Thanks!
It is very interesting. Thank you!👏👏
I love you with an agape love, you have passed on to me the passion for mysticism
Glad to hear it! Mysticism is a fascinating topic to study, and rewarding!
Zyriab is also much more than that. He litterally imported to european court the finest fashion (perfume ,hygiene, seasonnal clothing, etc.) . Enjoy learning !
Cool, then he must have some nice bags too.😅lol.
Just a joke
I wonder if there is any real connection between him and the historic oud and buzuq producer “oud ziryab” in Damascus. Did he play a part in its foundation or were the founders of oud ziryab just influenced by him and gave him the name sake of their work
I'm sure it is named after the historical Ziryab! It's not uncommon
Of course the maker of oud Ziryab named his production after the musician Ziryab, there are alot of Musical Institutions and music Instruments marktes carry his Name, not only the one you mentioned in Damascus.
People in these comments are weird ziyrab was not kurdish thats a fact. He was most likely of african origin or mixed with african.
There are plenty sources that tell of Ziryab being a black man with African features, a citizen of the Abbasid caliphate, yes; But undoubtedly originating from North East Africa, possibly Egypt or Al-Sudan aka, the land of the blacks. Strange that you would give voice to those seeking to problematise this historical fact, rather than just cite the multiple sources attesting to his Africanicity. Strange indeed.
Ziryab was a Black African Moors
Hello, Filip! I'm so happy to see someone so passionate about the Oud. I was wondering, have you ever thought about making a tutorial on how to tune an Oud? That would be super helpful for total beginners. I'm looking forward to your next video!
That's an interesting idea! I could definitely do that at some point!
@@FilipHolm , thank you!
Awesome video bro. You teach me much about my own culture. Especially the musical realm.
btw if may I may ask, where did you purchase your Oud? I've wanted to start learning for a while now but I live in Germany and I'm afraid of buying a bad quality one. Shukran ya habib ❤️
So I have multple ouds. The one behind me in the video was made in the workshop of Maurice Shehata in Egypt and ordered directly from them. My newer Oud, which is the main one I use now, was instead made by Yildrim Palabyik in Turkey.
He is kurdish
Thank you, very interesting! I heard that name before from a moroccan friend who also praised him as a great teacher, musician and person and talked about that period in Spain as a very openminded and tolerant time - that Ziryab was foreign, black-skinned and also gay, and nevertheless was respected and loved by all people in Andalucia, christians, jews and arabs.
It was a fascinating time and place!
He was not gay sir he very much had many children.
Zryab in kurdstan ❤❤❤
Great jop... thank you
Great video. Ziryab is Kurdish.
That Ableton Push in the background tho!
Not quite!
Did any of his music survive today?
I understand that he lived in times before musicians wrote music as they use today, does that mean his compositions vanished?
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
02:32 what is that huge instrument? An artistic exaggeration or an actual bass instrument?
I think that's just supposed to be some kind of Oud!
Thanx for the informations. Where can we get some of his songs he ve composed?
Sadly we can't. All music was orally transmitted and notation was only invented (in this region) centuries later.
Ziryab was a kurdish or persian musician because his nickname means the golden water "zir: Gold" and "ab: Water".
However it really doesn't matter if he was an arab, persian, kurd, african or whatever else after all he was just like the great Philosopher Al Kindi one of the best and most amazing Genies in history.
Medina as one of the greatest centers of music! It's so difficult to imagine that 😂 Wow! I'm really surprised.
Genius transcends ethnicity, definitely!
I was told Ziryab means "blackbird". But you are right - it does not matter. If kurds and iranians claim him to be kurdish or persian they show that they have a good taste.
Abu Ishaq al-Mosuli (persian) ,loved music and played the oud, so he was able to discover the talent of Zaryab, who was a slave at the time, and the relationship between The Master and the servant was strengthened, mosuli trusted him, loved him, appreciated him, and mosuli was famous for his habit The slaves were Released on religious occasions, and Mosuli and his wife to release him, and the sources remember that the story between them began when the Abbasid caliph asked Mosuli to hear him a new voice that he had never heard before, so he chose Mosuli on Zaryab, and when Zaryab began to sing, the caliph admired him more admiration, and asked Mosuli to take care of him and bring him Daily to the court. Zaryab moved from Baghdad to Andalusia two ways of singing and music:
The way to sing on the origins of Nubia.
The way to apply the rhythm of the lyric with the poetic rhythm.
The oldest historical archaeological evidence of the oud machine dates back 5,000 years, when researchers found the oldest trace of the oud machine, in northern Syria, and found stone inscriptions representing women playing the oud. The oud is famous in ancient and contemporary history and many manufacturers were creative in making the oud machine, including Damascene, Baghdadi, Al-Masri, etc.
Through a comparative study of a collection of oud relics discovered in various archaeological sites, it was established that the first appearance of the oud machine was in Mesopotamia and (Syrian Island) in the Acadian period 2350 2170 B.C. And the oud appeared in Egypt during the modern kingdom around 1580 -1090 B.C. after entering it from the Levant and oud appeared in Iran for the first time in the fifteenth century BC
The history of the manufacture of the Arabic oud machine dates back to the 6th century AD when the Arabs came into contact with persians and took away from them this industry in which they created and developed it until it became the first instrument in the Arab musical bed and became a great place to become the sultan of Arab instruments to this day and the history of Arab musical civilization attests to names that were credited with developingAnd improve its performance and adjust its standards, we find on top of them the chief player of the oud machine Zalzal Mansour inventor of the oud machine, which he called al-Shabout and Zaryab, who took care of the acoustic side of the oud machine so that he made many modifications in the form of the oud machine by replacing the face of the oud machine present in his time of leather with wood as we find the great philosopher Abu Nasr al-Farabi Mr. Al-Oud's makers due to his studies and researches and his many works attest to this (great composer) and philosopher Abu Yusuf Yacoub bin Ishaq al-Kindi (805-873 AD), who translated many Greek works into Arabic and wrote many books, including (Letter in Music), and al-Kindi has elaborated on the study and legalization of the oud machine and created new systems and methods to play this instrument and control its sounds and places of intrigue.
Zaryab is the reason for the invention of the scarves because he generalized the method of singing on the origins of Nubia, and this method was the reason for the invention of the scarves
Thank you for the insights. That era where culture intermingling together where we cant ignore the possibility that someone from africa might even adopted a persian surname and then this person became great.
As a persian I must say the meaning of Zaryab Is a person who find gold or seek to find gold
Zar or zir mean: gold
Yab: is derived from the verb YAFTAN which means: to find
It's true that the (ab) mean (water) in persian , but your translation for ZARYAB is wrong !
i would like to know more about the relationship of the Oud to the health of the body. Can you do a show about that? Or send it to my email?
I read somewhere that the spanish, adding frets to the ud created the lute, so actually the word "lute" itself comes from "ud"
Yes, lute comes from the term "al-oud"
Al oud -> la oud -> laud -> lute
His nickname-Zaryāb-literally means "gold-finder," which is an archaic Persian word for the crow. The name may have referred to his skin tone, his voice, or something else altogether.
Ziryab is Kurdish not Persian
@@karzanmuhammed2362 Why does he have a Persian name then?
@@lambert801
This is Kurdish name not Persian
@@lambert801ziryab means golden water in kurdish
@@mf1miran631 Golden water? Does that make a ounce of sense to you? In Persian: Zir (gold) + yab (finder) = raven (because they love shiny things). Ziryab means raven in Persian, and maybe in Kurdish too, because our languages are very much similar. Kurdish and Persian are both West Iranian languages.
It is a great injustice and nationalism for non-Arab Muslims to be attributed to themselves by calling Arabs Islamic culture and civilization Arab. The founders of the Abbasid caliph are Iranians and other Muslims. Most of the Islamic scholars are Iranian. The source of Islamic culture is Iran and Greece, Alexandria. Ziryab and his teacher ishak al locality are kurdish and music culture working in the palace of the Abbasid caliph of Mosul. Guitar and chess words may be in Persian. The exact etymology must be made. It doesn't make him a dark-skinned African or arab.
Salam....in the moment ...algerien music andalusse culture....🎵🎶🎼🪘🎻🇩🇿🇩🇿🇩🇿🇩🇿🙏🎩 algeroi d Barcelona 😘
Algeria never existed at that time stop stealing from Morocco 😂
💪🏻💪🏻
Hey Filip, I started a TH-cam channel myself and I aim to talk about philosophy and I was hoping to know what equipment you use or what equipment I can use if I have a really low budget (about 250 bucks).
Hmm.. In some ways, good sound quality is more important than video quality. Do you have any equipment at all currently? A camera or something?
@@FilipHolm I have only my iPhone’s camera, alas. It’s pretty decent; the problem for me is just the audio. If you know anything that can produce the sort of crisp, clean sound with the low budget, I would appreciate your help. I do plan on publishing videos in Arabic (as I am Egyptian myself) as well as English and I find your channel’s success inspirational.
@@aphilosophersphantom7208 I appreciate that! Hmm, it's difficult with that budget. Because aside from a microphone you're probably going to need some sort of external sound card with a pre-amp.
Although I know that there are microphones that you plug in directly to your computer using USB and which sound pretty good. I don't really know which ones to recomend though, because I've never used them myself.
Let me think on it a bit and I can get back to you!
Algeria has the greatest Andalusian music heritage 🇩🇿♥️
I think Morocco, because more of it can be traced back to history. But algeria has it's beautiful traditions.
ممنوع رفع العلم الوطني و المشي به في شوارع باب الواد...مخرخرات عبلة ستعتبرك حراكي راجل و يسجونوك...هههه.ربي سبحانو الحق بهدلكم و رخَّسَّكم فجعلكم تسجنون عجوز سنها 65 و إسمها دوادي فتيحة ..شهرين كاملين في زنزانة إنفرادية بسجن القليعة فقط لأنها حراكية...بلد يحكمه نزار و مهنة جبار و مازلتم في تشِّكم تمعهون
but it is the only country in the world ruled by war criminals,convicts,terrorists in uniforms and fugitifs
He was Kurdish
Hi is kurdesh and is mening his nam water of gold
🙂🙂🙂
He is like kurdish singer Hasan zirek and shakero
🌻🌻👍🌻👍👍👍❤️
Most of what we know of Andalusian today comes from ibn baja.
I don't know but for the new age, this Guy Maher Zain, has a different sound and melody for the Islamic world, maybe you can do his portrait...!
Yes, he is a fellow Swede! Talented guy!
@@FilipHolm oh yea, I never knew that, I really appreciate as I do for your music too, the Oud is special...
Ziryab means gold, yellow, or black bird in Arabic
He was Kurdish
His name mean Golden water or Golden well
In Kurdish
His more then as described "islamic"
First thing first, his a highly talented, artistic, musician, intellect, a Kurdish person (as a Kurdish name; "Avezer" meaning; "golden water" because of he had a beautiful voice) or another name; Ziryab.
In Kurdish culture, music override everything!
Avezer, he never made it anything for islamic, indeed he brought Kurdish civilisation to Spain.
This is a fact!
❤️☀️💚
✅☮️👍 Mr.Flip H
Yes!
@@FilipHolm
Thanks is a short word to express my gratitude to you for answering me .
Ziryab Kurdish from Hawraman Provence
Hi is Kurdish and Zir mean Gold and Yab mean Finder so his namn mean The Goldfinder!
zaryab is a kurdish name he was born in the north of iraqi kurdestan according to history of ebn khaledoun most famous arab historian .so he inheritance music tradition of barbad and nakisa the famoue iranian and kurdish ssasanian musican
Zeryab was kurdish,not persian.
Ziryab is a Persian surname which still many Iranians have . Zaryab in Persian means " gold finder ".
its not persian, genereally iranic languags have it in common, he was kurd
He was kurdish bro, read better the History , the reason is why in some how close to Persian because Persian language is derived from Kurdish Language and ( Arabic of course as well),the reality is not change ,Zyriab its mean Zeri Av ( water of Gold) but because in arabic they do not have V latter they pronaounced as B so its was becasme Zyriab inplace Zyriav. Its clear that he was Kurdish like Sun.
@@danadany211 I am open to all theories however as far as I have researched first of all Persian has never been a separate ethnic identity but referring to all Iranian peoples sharing certain common linguistic -cultural heritage moreover the separate kurdish identity and kurdish language has come to existence in the history far later than Persian language and culture , therefore Greek and Roman historians had always referred to Iranians as Persian without saying anything about Kurds at all , for this reason one cannot find any evidence of Kurdish language prior to Islamic era in other words prior to circa 13th century AD one cannot find NO kurdish language evidence at all .
Wrong Ziryab wasn't Persian he was Arab and his name is Ali bin Nafi
He was named Ziryab by the arabian rulers and Ziryab mean a singing bird in Arabic because he used to sing too and it was an artistic giving name not his real name!
He was actually Mexican. That's why they said he was a bird. He flew across the ocean and brought kebab to the Islamic world.
Wtf your pronunciation of arabic is crisp as hell
Ziryab El kurdî.
Very interesting. FYI the Romans ate asparagus - was very popular.
I do Belly dance . I love the dance . So I am interested in all music like this.
Sorry guitar didn't evolve from oud but from mauritanian zenaga guitar known as tidinit. It was brought by almoravid soldiers when they invaded andalucia. Tidinit has the same hour shape and single strings as the modern guitar. Tidinit is called ngoni in mali and xalam in senegal.
ماهذا الظُرَاطْ يا أقرقور؟
In arabic the word ziryab means a genus of black crow and alziryab word means gold water so ziryab was black🖤🖤🖤 habibi 🙂🙂🙂
I tend to lean towards this conclusion too, but who knows.
Ziryav was Kurd from Hawraman
Ziryab is a kurdish people
So Lennon was wrong. It was something before Elvis.
In persian language, the name Zaryab means someone who finds gold or "The Gold Finder", which may point to his persian origin.
@@kingibo04 Thank you for the valuable information. So what is the meaning of the name "ziryab" in Kordish language?
@@kingibo04 So his name means "Gold Water" in Kordish language?
Now I understand! Thank you very much for all these valuable information!
He was kurdish and Muslim,but because of Root of the Music its come from kurdish Culture ,in way you can say every kurdish person he is Musician. And the reason is why in some how close to Persian because Persian language is derived from Kurdish Language and ( Arabic of course as well),the reality is not change ,Zyriab its mean Zeri Av ( water of Gold) but because in arabic they do not have V latter they pronaounced as B so its was becasme Zyriab inplace Zyriav. Its clear that he was Kurdish like Sun.
@@VermontStrolls is not “Kordish” it’s called Kurdish
Ziryab means Golden water in Kurdish
He was from Mosul in Iraq
Mosul was still majority Kurdish until 1800s
Zir=Gold
Yab= well, water
Ziryab was African… BLACK to be exact.
Yup 100%
I wonder if Ziryab comes from "gold seeker".
Ziryab ist unbedingt Kurde.
Guitar came from an Arabic word “ Quithara “
God bless the Greeks....
Ziryab is Kürdisch
How do Moslems reconcile a rich music tradition with the fact that, from what I understand, Islam deems music as Haram?
The status of music in Islam is a much more complicated topic. Many Muslims have considered music to be permissable across history and today.
Arabic poetry is form of music because it is rely on notes called "Bahr" there are more of ten of those with a complication for each one , but the music instruments was always controversial.
A clip about this complicated topic would be awesome.... Thanks for the response
@@tamarfalkson1704 I cover it in the video "Music in the Islamic World (Part 1)" on my other channel (Let's Talk Religion)!
Hey man I'm no expert but as far as I'm aware there's a variety of Islam called Sufism which has a strong historical relationship with the arts, music and dance especially. The whirling dervishes or the poet rumi are pretty famous examples of them. Their interaction with art is partly due to the mystical experiences felt by these Muslim musicians which brought them closer to Allah or so I understand
I don't know too much but as the name ziryab or zaryab is a Persian name
It’s a Kurdish name
@@EzKurdim1 thank you, what it means?
@@hamzaimran7086 Zir=Gold
Yab=Water,Well
Ziryab= Golden Water,Golden Well
@@EzKurdim1 fountain of gold that's what this mean in our language pushto and Persian, so it is quite the same
@@hamzaimran7086 That’s may be due to our Iranic connection
The start of classical music is from Immortal Persia (IRAN)
He was kurdish bro, read better the History , the reason is why in some how close to Persian because Persian language is derived from Kurdish Language and ( Arabic of course as well),the reality is not change ,Zyriab its mean Zeri Av ( water of Gold) but because in arabic they do not have V latter they pronaounced as B so its was becasme Zyriab inplace Zyriav. Its clear that he was Kurdish like Sun.
He was Kurdish
If course, he is kurd. There is no no ziryab in whole Arabien like a Name. Ziryab ist arabisation og the Name like most Names. The Arabes couldn't pronounce the name correctly. Ziryab is camping from Zorab, Which refers originally to a profession rather than a Name. Zorab is the profession, which refers to the saler of dried grapes. The name is still used in Iraqi Kurdistan. Duhok city was very well-known for it's richness for this kind of fruit. And saling it to the neighbour cities. The Name Zorab is still used widely in Iraqi Kurdistan. And I believe , you will find none of the Arabs with this name nowhere. So just tell me how can Ziryab be Arab or African... Just because, all parts of Kurdistan,are occupied by other ethnic,like Arabs, Turks, or persers, they systematically destroyed the history of the kurd nation, or simply added to their ones without shame.
Ziryab, in Arabian dictionary means gold, yellow, or black bird. Thus, your point backfires lol
Ziryab is his nickname -.- his real name is 100% arabic.
@@lllllMlllll his name is literally Kurdish
@@bisa.7163 his name was Kurdish and he was Kurdish and will always be Inshallah
يبدو انك متعصب حزبيا ايضا و ليس قوميا فقط انت تتهم عائلة اجدادهم قدمو شهداء في سبيل كوردستان
But if you are not going accept the evidence of someone closer to Ziryab that he was clearly of black african origin, why even talk about him? What "authentic" sources are you using for him as historical person? The legend? This is quite disingenuous.
You cannot cast doubt on the evidence of Ibn Hayyan, who clearly mentions this in his Kings of Al Andalus, and then assume other sources about him as an authentic.
This kind of dogma went to America during the maritime expansion too....
Ziryab is his nickname. His real name is 100% ARABIC. For those people who are claiming he must be persian -.-
He was kurdish bro, read better the History , the reason is why in some how close to Persian because Persian language is derived from Kurdish Language and ( Arabic of course as well),the reality is not change ,Zyriab its mean Zeri Av ( water of Gold) but because in arabic they do not have V latter they pronaounced as B so its was becasme Zyriab inplace Zyriav. Its clear that he was Kurdish like Sun
He was Kurdish
His name mean
Golden well or Golden water in Kurdish
Zyriab was a Persian. Most historians (the most important historians on the history of medieval spain and, overall, on the history of the medieval world, like Joseph O’Callaghan) agree that Zyriab was a Persian.
He was kurdish bro, read better the History , the reason is why in some how close to Persian because Persian language is derived from Kurdish Language and ( Arabic of course as well),the reality is not change ,Zyriab its mean Zeri Av ( water of Gold) but because in arabic they do not have V latter they pronaounced as B so its was becasme Zyriab inplace Zyriav. Its clear that he was Kurdish like Sun
He was Kurdish
His name is also Kurdish
The Western world defines all Iranians as Persians without distinction. "Zer" means yellow. "Ab" comes from the word "av" in Kurdish. Zeryab Cizre is from Mosul. It has Kurdish culture.
The cause of the downfall of Andalusia n Muslims
@@mangolian theres a few research papers in this about how the man of culture teaches the muslims and the Europeans there about ethics etc with the permission of Sultan. But the knowledge of music etc made them more distant with the Quran
Nice video، thanks!
I should mention that there is no such thing as "Islamic musicians" in the "Islamic world". One usually wouldn't describe Johann Sebastian Bach as "Christian musician" in the "Christian world". Why should it be different here? At least Bach created many sacred works, which Zaryab didn't.
Islam is a religion that has followers in many different cultures and regions. The music made by Iranians is not the same as the Egyptian or Indian or Chinese music, yet there are millions of Iranian, Egyptian and Chinese Muslims.
Islam has never produced anything artistic. It has suppressed arts and forced the artists to express their creativity in certain forms that could be hesitantly tolerated by the clerics, saving the artists from oppression and punishment, but you can't credit Islam with producing art! Just as you wouldn't credit a strangler a singer or a componist, just because a person who they are chocking makes a noise.
Crediting Islam with everything artistic that has ever beed done in the Middle Eastern or Nord African cultures (without ever distinguishing the countries) is not only histroically and factually wrong, but also shows a condescending post-colonial lack of awareness that contradicts the subject of your interesting video.
I'm aware that this kind of description is the norm and has been used thousends of times in many books, but that doesn't mean that it's correct.
Sorry for the long rant :)
I disagree with most of what you say here. First of all, the term "Islamicate" (which is the term I use in the video to refer to Ziryab) is a general term that denotes the larger region that was ruled by Muslims and in which the Islamic intellectual tradition had become paradigm. So by invoking this word, no one is "crediting Islam".
But on the other hand, to say things like "Islam has never produced anything artistic" not only betrays a narrow and problematic perspective on religion and its relationship with "culture" but is also just plainly false.
Islam (as a religion) has been the catalyst for a ton of art across history, and often been the very patron of that art. Things like architecture, calligraphy, poetry and indeed music. While Ziryab himself may not have been a musician whose art is devotional in a direct sense (as far as we know), there is for example Sufism/tasawwuf in which the art of music has been developed and used as an essential part of Islamic religious practice and spirituality.
The idea that Islamic "clerics" have oppressed art in a overarching sense in the way you describe is a historically inaccruate perspective. To claim that any art is produced outside of a particular paradgim and not controlled based on societal norms is very naive, and to highlight "Islam" as somehow unique in that sense is also simply not true.
Also, I have heard Bach be referred to as a "Christian musician" before. And when talking about Europe in the pre-modern era, one often calls it the "Christian World" or "Christendom".
With that said, there is definitely someting to be said for not generalizing the "Islamic World" into a monolith, but a diverse polity(ies) in which many cultures exist. And I agree that a lot of the time it might be more beneficial to specify what the particular context is, rather than to simply refer to the incredibly broad category of "Islamic/or Islamicate World". The reason I chose to call Ziryab a "Islamicate musician" is because his career spans across various different regions and his ethnic background is highly ambigous. Therefore, I concluded that the broader term "Islamicate" was sufficiently fuzzy yet informative.
Thank you for the response.
Well, it's interesting that you think Islam has been a "catalyst" and "patron" for arts. Where and when did that happen? Which Ayatollah/Imam has ever paid anything for arts?! Do you know that especially music is considered "haram" in Islam?
Of course, there are many books on "Islamic arts". That's one way to look at it, and many scholars have, but I think you should explain it to all those clerics who have banned music, dance, cinema, theater, paiting and basically every form of art and entertainment (in some cases, even soccer) and do so to this day. Also the artists should read this comment who had to give up painting objects and were forced to concentrate on calligraphy because it was the only form of fine arts that Islam had left them, those who were pursued, punished or killed throughout the history, because their art was labeled "unislamic", those who had to give up making music or singing or dancing because their art "distracted from religious thoughts"... I'm pretty sure neither group would appreciate your point of view :)
Crediting Islam with art (or scientific accomplishments,, for that matter) is like complimenting a father for his daughter's graduation, although he never wanted her to go to school and beat her up because she made a stand against him.
Yes, the fine arts did have a golden age in medival times in the Middle East, but it was primarily despite Islam, not because of it. I'm saying this as an Iranian who is familiar with the history of the region and its culture.
In some rare cases, Bach has been refered to as a Christian musician, but surely not as the main and first adjective. German musician, famous musician, accomplished musician, baroque musician... But nobody hurries to refer to him as "Christian" as the first thing that comes to mind.
Did the artists who "profited" from Islam and its "catalysis" in the Middle Ages have the freedom to openly turn their back on it, if they wished? How many nonbelivers and freethinkers who made art had to pretend that they were devoted Muslims, so that thousend years later the Western historians could label their work as "Islamic"?
While Europe is sometimes refered to as the Christian world, nobody would refer to its entire history of art as "Christian". Europe is older and larger than Christianity, but at least the Catholic church has comissioned many art objects. I simply don't understand why and how the art of the Middle East+Nord Africa has to fit in the narrow confinement of its literal enemy, the Islam.
I appologise for the long comment again and will try to avoid stealing your time more than I already have. I just wanted to offer a different point of view :)
@@a.riddlemethis795 Again, your understanding of Islam seems limited. The idea that music is "haram" in Islam is not the whole picture. Many Muslim scholars and jurists/ulama/clerics have considered music allowed and sometimes even encouraged it for religious practices. I can think of a number of "imams" who have been musical composers themselves or had musicians write music, such as Nizamuddin Auliya, Mahmud Hudai, Abu'l Hasan al-Shushtari and many more.
Perhaps the greatest authority in Sunni Islam in history - al-Ghazali - defended music and its use for spiritual purposes. So the situation is significantly more complex than what you are presenting.
To be clear, the permissibility of music has often been a heated debate in the Islamic world, no one is denying that. But there are always many voices from different sides of that debate, and not a one-sided view as you seem to perceive it.
I appreciate you offering your perspective, though!
@Riddlemethis --- A different point of view for the sake of being an original!
Well, I know a few originals with preconceived ideas and little substance (I won't mention names to allow your apparent thurst for real knowledge guide you toward them) and their deeds didn't have nice consequences!
@@alignuernberg8931 Being a condescending jerk doesn't prove your point or greater knowledge, just a greater, most likely unjustified ego.
Hé has nothing to do with Islam. he is a Kurd from Kurdistan!
He is a Muslim Kurd
Zyr means under and yab is a funder in Persian so under funder and zarr means Gold so zarryab means gold funder you should not decide that he was African dicended be sure he could be a Gipsy from than India and now Pakistan also
I mean the early sources literally say he was black, so that is a pretty clear indication
@@FilipHolm it is becoming a trend in North America to creat false stories and reverse the reality few years ago I red in wikipidia that the soviet union was the first country to have the equal right for men and women but now it says something else says usa than newziland and soviet is not even number 10
He was kurdish and Muslim,but because of Root of the Music its come from kurdish Culture ,in way you can say every kurdish person he is Musician, The reason is why in some how close to Persian because Persian language is derived from Kurdish Language and ( Arabic of course as well),the reality is not change ,Zyriab its mean Zeri Av ( water of Gold) but because in arabic they do not have V latter they pronaounced as B so its was becasme Zyriab inplace Zyriav. Its clear that he was Kurdish like Sun.
He was Kurdish