Divine Harmonies: Bach's Metaphysics of Music
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Dive into the profound world of Johann Sebastian Bach, where music becomes a divine language. In this episode, we explore Bach's philosophy and metaphysics of music and how he envisioned music as an artform where divine perfection and harmony could be manifested.
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Music by:
Johannes Bornlof
Filip Holm
Sources/Recomended Reading:
Butt, John (ed.) (1997). "The Cambridge Companion to Bach". Cambridge University Press.
Cooper, John M. (ed.) (1997). "Plato: Complete Works". Hackett Publishing Company.
Huffman, Carl A. (ed.) (2017). "A History of Pythagoreanism". Cambridge University Press.
Kirk, G.S., J.E. Raven & M. Schofield (1983). "The Presocratic Philosophers". Second Edition. Cambridge University Press.
Klavan, Spencer A. (2020). "Music in Ancient Greece: Melody, Rhythm and Life". Bloomsbury Academic.
Zhmud, Leonid (2012). "Pythagoras and the Early Pythagoreans". Translated by Kevin Windle & Rosh Ireland. OUP Oxford.
#bach #DivineHarmony #MusicPhilosophy
Our song "Isthmus" is now released, and you can stream it here: open.spotify.com/track/1jM0FKlu5Xy4NEQgysrVNM?si=c723d386c9f44293
You can also check out further links on my linktree: linktr.ee/filipholm
“Bach’s music is the only argument proving the creation of the Universe cannot be regarded as a complete failure.” -Emil Cioran
Wow. Quoting Cioran. You get a gold star.
Thank you for sharing this quote.
That needs an argument for proving a creator.
@@Stichting_NoFa-p no, it doesn’t. Cioran’s point was about how relatively marvelous Bach’s music is compared to the rest of…well, everything (in his opinion). Cioran was a skeptic, pessimist, and nihilist, not a preacher :)
@@CrazyLinguiniLegs the fact that it's not the main point doesn't mean a quote can't contain any other information. You don't need to be a preacher to be able to believe in god.
Every musician owes to Bach the Greates composer ever.
TOO BAD that unfair Musicologists during a 19th century dishonest Cultural Operation , made SO MANY FAKE ATTRIBUTIONS to Bach . I'm not pleased at all , to point you that during his lifetime , Bach was mister Nobody , a good Organist in Leipzig ; but ALL OF A SUDDEN after 1800 he's become the maximum Musical Genius . A great Genius certainly Bach is , but his Legacy must be honestly reconsidered and in part rewritten 😢😢
You’re not stretching for straws. While studying at a conservatory, many years ago, I became fascinated with how composers used music to communicate extra musical ideas - from Pythagoras to Ives. During Bach’s time, there was an extensive literature, now largely forgotten, theorizing on how certain musical intervals were tied to particular emotions. These ideas were well known by Bach and employed in his settings of religious texts (word painting) as well as his instrumental music. His assiduous efforts to attain technical mastery of the tools of music, most evident in the WTC and the Art of the Fugue, also extended to mastering the ways music could serve to elevate our feelings such that we are in a harmonious relationship with God.
It would be very interesting to access these sources of literature, if you can provide any names or links!
@@davidereno1871 Hmmm, I found them in the Manhattan School of Music library 50 years ago. But now that you ask, I am curious to see what I can find online.
So if the ideas were lost to history, how would we know about them?
Snarky reply. Did you know about them?
Beautifully put
WHEN one discovers Bach Tschaikovsky becomes decadent, Beethoven Becomes chaotic, Mozart becomes Frivolous, But Bach is discovered till Death
...a little broad, but I know what you mean. Your adjectives are well chosen.
@JULES when one discovers BACH , some time later he discovers Vivaldi Albinoni and many others like Krebs Biber Bruhns Kuhnau from whom Bach copied/transcribed/arranged with GREATEST GENIALITY 😮😮😮
Bach is the GOAT
Bach often inscribed at the end of his compositions: S. D. G. (Soli Deo Gloria) To God alone, the glory.
To add to that, Handel sometimes used this inscription too.
Congratulations on this video. The hypothesis you’ve presented in very plausible. The music of Bach is so deep and inspiring that it would not be surprising if he composed with the motivation of reaching union with the divine.
That and beer and brandy.👍
It wasn't an uncommon idea, after all
He was a very spiritual man of faith. God was his inspiration for most of his masterpieces
Much of Bach's music is totally spiritual.coming from higher spiritual spheres. His soul is full of light and his music manifests this.Divinity is the source of all Light
Dear IYIBU sorry , much of Bach's Music comes from COPYING/TRANSCRIBING/REARRANGING someone's other Music ; this is a sad but a honest truth 😢😢
@@mariapiazza-od8ib Bach took that which was ordinary and turned it into transcended.
@@Antsaboy94 thanks for your attention 🤪😜😋 .. Though remember that BACH was a musical Genius , when he transcribed/copied Vivaldi (the most famous Composer of that time) BACH knew better than you and me that his Music was NOT NORMAL/ORDINARY in noway 🌺🌺
@@mariapiazza-od8ib Right. There were instances of Bach borrowing themes and such from exceptional composers as well. That doesn't make what he did with those themes any less impressive.
@@Antsaboy94.. This is well said really 😮😮 indeed when me and anybody listen to BACH , we don't visualize/imagine a human being , but instead an almost DIVINE MUSICAL SPIRIT who brings value and hope to our Existence . Stay well 🏵️
If you want to go deeper into Bach’s music, take a look at the mathematics of it. Very magical. Some 20+ years ago there was a documentary about that. Wish I could find it again.
goedel, escher bach? i think that was the name of the book that explored some of the math
Bach was inspired by Kepler’s work on planetary motions.
*Riemenschneider Bach Institute*
KEPLER, BACH, AND GAUSS: THE CELESTIAL HARMONY OF THE EARTH'S MOTION
@@derinderruheliegt I am of the belief that Bach was a force of nature unto himself. It wouldn't have mattered what philosophy he read, the music would have poured out of him one way or another.
If you really want to go deeper in Bach's music, you must study theology in a deep and serious way. Bach disliked "dry mathematical stuff" and that is very well known.. on the other hand Bach's library listed 80 volumes of theological works.
Bach's music sparked the first embers of belief in God for me. I get close to tears when I consider those moments in my life.
Awesome! The past few years, I've really gotten into classical music. Bourque is my favorite period. Thanks, Philip.
It's lovely stuff!
Bach is the OG. That is all.
Really appreciate you man, you’ve taught me so much about both music and religion
On his deathbed, Bach's final words to his 2nd wife were allegedly, "Do not cry for me as I go to where music is born".
Irwin Goodman-a late Finnish singer-had a song called "Viimeinen laulu", translated into "Final song". Its third verse speaks of a distant birthplace of music where they only play the most beautiful and sweetest song of all.
Although the song writer-late Veikko "Vexi" Salmi-wasn't a Christian, he recognized there's something more to this world than the mere physical plane of existence.
My soul longs for its eternal residence. Both this alleged quote and these lyrics speak of that place, void of human flaw and beyond what a man can tarnish. The source of all that is Good and pure; something we can only have a glimpse of in this life.
@@Antsaboy94 It is here with you already, but we are rarely in tune with it.
I learned this about Bach as a student of the Cello and following the Master Musician Pablo Casals. When Casals conducted Bach he brought out the spiritual aspects better than any other conductor. I would reference Orcestral Suite #3. This video surely reaches for the great and inner meaning of Bach. I look forward to experiencing your music. No one will blame you for not being Bach. I do appreciate your effort.
All of Bach's work is very dedicated to the old worship ways of the Psalms; more specifically, the Psalms of David. He used harmonic principles and silence in between harmonies to build the foundational idea of what Heart Rate Variability is! 💖💞⚡ Indeed, he composed his music as worship and executed it as sermons as well. Gloriousss Gloryyyy. ALL Glory Goes to Adonai. Amen. PRAISE JESUSSSS
You were my top spotify artist this year, largely thanks to Sinai and Whistle. Thank you for your work
It's an honor to be your top artist! Thank you for listening!
Most shocking thing is that there had to be a Bach revival. Not sure to what degree he was forgotten, but still.
He was revered by all the true conoisseurs of music when he was alive and even after his death, since his music was studied by all the greatest composers. With the Bach revival then, finally the general public could hear Bach's music. But he was never really forgotten, for sure
It's also interesting that Felix Mendelssohn had a great deal to do with the revival of Bachs music.
Kepler's great book "The Harmony of The World" traces the scientific reasoning behind this harmony, which is the basis of Music, Geometry, Astrology, and the structure of the Solar System.
Yes! Keplers musical universe is very fascinating
I would love to read it
Have you read Bach and the Dance of God. It's life enhancing, as is his music.
Greatest composer... Great video!
It's also interesting to note that this view of music as "harmonia mundi" (and its being as much perfect as it conveys harmony, balance and a solid structure) was used as a criticism to the post-WWII avant-garde, and contemporary music in general.
And also that they never came up with a valid reply.
Interesting! But how would the ideal harmony, balance and structure be measured?
@@FilipHolm Well, if the purpose of such music is exactly to *avoid* harmony and structure, measurements become irrelevant.
Modern music should reflect the mathematics of quantum mechanics and relativity.
@@Claude_van Good luck with that! :D
@@SPscorevideos I can't see the collapse of the wave function and the uncertainty principle in Bach. Maybe it’s there but there’s a lot to explore musically in the future.
Don’t forget that J.S.Bach substantially also as human being with the same fervor in music making remarried within year after death of first, begot over 21 children and shared bereavement of at least 8 with these 2 beloved partners in life!!
G'day, Mr. Holm! Thank you for an interesting and insightful video. As for my two cents worth on this subject, the fact that Bach devoted his work to the glory of God tells me that he did not think music to be God but rather a reflection of and a gift from God.
A marvelous exploration -- thank you! You really appreciate his genius and spirit.
At the end you said "maybe it isn't that deep" haha, I think that's my view but it's very interesting and beautiful to hear about these views. Thank you. I'll 100% listen to your song once it's out.
Every serious musician (pro or amateur) has asked themselves the question "Am I connecting to something higher?"
At times it sure feels that way. It happened sparingly when I was young. More often now in my old age, but not always.
Bach had the switch set to "on" all the time I suspect.
This happens to me every time I complete a task - any mental challenging task that surpasses my creational limits and goes higher.
Bach is an example to all for the way he allowed to his conscious and subconscious elements to match persistently. That is the key to creativity that man is made for - it also requires a high IQ and EQ as well. I don't know if he realised his genius, but he lived a life of a simple man with an earthly life full of happiness, joy and sorrow that boosted his nervous system to respond that way, according to his mentality.
My prediction: this is going to be fantastic.
Well..?
@@FilipHolm I was definitely right. But that’s a pretty easy prediction for both of your channels.
I’m doing my PhD on the Harmony of the Spheres in Renaissance music! (I’m a Renaissance/Baroque musician.)
Let’s be friends ☺️
I'm down!
@@FilipHolm yay! 😊
Excellent discussion and topic! Bach is The Man. In him was the perfect coming together of devotion and musical genius. I don't tend to throw the word 'genius' around, but if it applies to anyone, it's certainly the great JSB. I cannot help but have the sense that his music broke upon the world like a giant wave, and now we musicians who have come after try to fashion something meaningful from the ripples and foam left in its wake. I think we would all do well to dig deep and find that devotional sense within us to use as a starting point for the creation of anything. After all, I suspect music - and art in general - would be better served if were to think about something other than its commodification for a change. Cheers!
Nicely put!
This is outstanding, Filip. Thank you so much 🙏🏼 💜
as a classical musician and amateur scholar of religion. I was confused on whose channel I was listening to hahaha. It began to auto play and I was pleasantly surprised it was a combination of what I love, nice man haha
There was a lot of mathematical context to Bach, besides being a spiritual composer. A lot of the music would loop back on itself. Complex arrangements with the calculation of the note placement would indicate more than just a connection to the church for his music in particular.
Yeah I'll check out the new track ("Isthmus"?... a good ingredient for a tongue twister) when it's released next week, for sure.
Hope you'll like it!
Excellent video! I've always been considering the correlation between music and philosophy as well as how many philosophers also have experience in musicality and vice versa. In being deeply interested in both fields for a significant part of my life, I see music as an art through which philosophy, which is a sort of more transcendent art form, can be represented and communicated. From Pythagoras' idea of "number in time" to the Christian or simply general religious experience of feeling God's presence through beautiful harmonies, the two are fundamentally tied together and who better to study this connection through than JSB himself!
The music of the spheres
Dorian, the second mode, represents the infinitely expanding polar opposites that emerge in an all-encompassing reality. It is half light, half dark.
Listening to your song and I love the mood, well layered and powerful❤. Thanks for the vid and the value.
Thank you!
your song, Isthmus - man, I am seriously impressed . very, *very* good
Thank you very much!
Great video!
somethint I’m wondering what role the whole number ratios of just intonation play into the divinity of the music. there is some theory to suggest these harmonies work best in part because many western musical instruments produce sound with a harmonic spectrum, whereas the more metallophone based music of gamelan has instruments with inharmonic spectra and is composed with scales and harmonies foreign to just intonation theory. so, to what extent does this affect the divinity of the music? gamelan certainly has a lot of rhythmic structure and its own kind of harmonic logic, i have no clue what indonesian musicians think about this music metaphysically speaking
My knowledge of gamelan is very limited, but you definitely raise interesting points. I think it is definitely a worthwhile question how "objective" harmony is vs. culturally conditioned
Sethares' "Tuning Timbre Spectrum Scale" has a good (if a bit flawed) section on the tuning systems of Javanese gamelan and their relationship to the inharmonic spectra of metallophones.
There's a lot of philosophy behind Javanese/Balinese gamelan, but it's not at all the kind of mathematical, "harmony of the spheres" philosophy of European art music. It's much more about symbolic associations. Intervals do not have a mathematical ideal, and can vary considerably in practice.
I would add that gamelan is not really based around harmonies at all but rather movement from one unison to another. Every instrument has its own way of filling in the intervening space, which results in a rich heterophonic texture punctuated by moments of clarity when everything converges.
According to Tröster, Bach wrote the B minor mass as an audition piece for a job in Dresden, to which he was applying just prior to his death. He was trying to impress the Catholic regent there with what he could do with the ordinary of the mass. It is very likely that he would have beeen required to convert in order to take up that post. So, his commitment to Lutheranism was perhaps not as strong as it might otherwise seem. He died before he could be fully considered for the post.
I don’t understand your message, since Bach wrote only the Kyrie and Gloria for the court of Dresden, and so a Lutheran mass.. only in his final years it became the Mass in B Minor as we know it. And it’s not true that Bach wasn't considered for the post, because for his Kyrie and Gloria (and several other cantatas for birthdays and name days of the royal family) was granted with the title of church composer of the court of dresden in 1736...
Bach is to music as Shakespeare is to literature or Newton is to physics.
I’ve been experimenting with and learning Quarter Comma Meantone tuning. I bet most of the organs Bach played were tuned this way. He and his students came up with further temperaments (Kirnberger for example), but I wonder if Meantone was always one of Bach’s main systems of tuning to play within. It’s a “mean” temperament and I almost dismissed it, but I’m slowing getting into it and starting to fall in love . . . Great video with great quotes! I wonder, should I call my band “The Bawling Devils”, or should I turn to god? Ha!
As a regular follower of your other channel, who is also a musician, i found great pleasure in discovering this new (to me) channel of yours and you dealing with this topic so crucial to me. Alongside Bach, the other great figure that deserves to be investigated in regard to this topic, is that of John Coltrane.
Oh for sure! Would love to cover him sometime
@@FilipHolm will look forward to it, in shaa Allah. If you were ever to travel to Kenya, my family and i would love to have you as a guest in our farm. Peace!
I have an identical view in this subject, so I thoroughly enjoyed you video.
I'd like to hear your opinion on something I'm working on: do you think a musical piece can be translated to visual language in a way that's somehow true, faithful to the music? With Bach specially I feel that harmonies could be translated to a fractal like object that describes every interval, maybe also rhythm, so that looking at the result you could somehow recognize the original work it is based upon.
I'm playing around with some scripts, hope to get results some day with this approach, but I'm dubious if I'm chasing an impossible here.
Interesting thought! For sure there could be ways to do it, but the question is what methodology woyld you use?
@@FilipHolm I'm envisioning a chromatic circle that leaves a trail to keep record of the whole structure. I keep finding similar attempts, you can check them out in my playlist fractal music
J S Bach RULES!!!🥳
Great video man, it taught me a bunch.
Music is magical.
Nice one again
these aspects of bach's music become clear when it is no longer performed as moving in time horizontally from here to there, but rather as vertical harmonic progression- phrasing
It is cute that you, Filip, takes Bach's description of how and what music is, word for word. Recreation of the soul is in the realm of our world, praise of God is in another world and may be "obllgato" for a person at that time, when religion played such a big role in many communities, being the glue, the moral compas. It's like a mantra.
The next sentence I read as a message from a musician to people who do not understand music, people who can say things like "let go of all that difficult stuff, key, modulation, harmonies ..." which has been said by people who listen to "rap music".
Music can have a quality which is hard to define, but is that which make people listen with love, discovering that this kind of music brings them a spiritual experience so different from a "Ländler", a market song, a village dance.
Do I? 🙂
"personal copy of biblical commentary" , may i ask to what you are referring to? is it a publication?
G'day! Bach owned a 3-volume Bible with commentaries by Abraham Calov and Martin Luther. Bach would write notes in the margin when a text impressed him or caused him to think about something applicable to his life. The quote mentioned in this video is an example of a margin note by Bach referring to 2 Chronicles 5:13 and the role of music in worship.
Bach’ great prayer to Divinity the Chaconne, my favourite is Segovia’s guitar version …heifitz version on the violin is supreme. Bach was totally self realised.
For me, your ideas on Bach's philosophy are indeed plausible -- Bach created a music that mastered virtually all traditions available to him, being of timeless perfection to his past and future. This didn't come without purpose.
Thank you so much !
do you know what Leibniz thought of Spinoza?
Yes?
A very HARD PROBLEM for a Musicologist or perhaps a Sociologist is too explain WHY nobody praised Bach during his lifetime (the respected Organist in Leipzig Basilica) ; not even his Brandenburg Concerts ; and then after Mendelssohn's discovery , Bach progressively became the utmost Musical Genius 🎉🎉🎉 Thanks for explaining.
It’s interesting how he intended his music to be divine and look how it turned out
J. S. Bach was Brian Wilsons favorite classical composer. Brian Wilson himself once said: "God is music''.
MUSIC IS DIVINE AND DOES NOT NEED TEXT. TEXT IS MERELY AN ADORNMENT TO MUSIC.
It might feel good, it might sound a little somethin' But damn the game if it don't mean nothin -john butt
Bach, music for lovers....... of algebra.
Perhaps in a metaphysical way Bach is a reincarnation Al Buchari. a significant founder of a genre.😅
As in Bukhari the hadith-scholar?
Thanks. Why in different channel. Fits well the "lets talk religeon"
It coul definitely work on both. Wanted to give some content to this channel, and it leans a bit more into music
@@FilipHolm Bach music is more of a religion than music. I had some experiences with BACH (some 30 years ago) before even I knew his name. It is proven to me that his music is divine
11:15 “Devotional Music” implies the purpose of it is for worshiping and contemplating God and his immensity.
Another good book on the topic, "Bach and the Meanings of Counterpoint" by Yearsley. Very interested in where this channel goes, being a fan of Let's Talk Religion, and a musician/composer myself. Thanks for the content!
As a side note, can I ask where the name Zini comes from, or what significance it has?
#141_comment_@Nov30-2023. AgreeThat GOD is. And so as HIS creation we have various means to approach & share with God. Interesting topic presented and know you'll get recognition, and glad you shared on TH-cam.✡️✝️
Some one, buy two shirts; one for this guy and another one for me, please!
Explaining how Bach viewed music as divine while playing it as background music. Ironic.
I'm very fond of the fact that you clarified him as one of the most influential WESTERN/EUROPEAN musicians rather than just blanketing him as the grestest with a complete disregard for non western music :)
I like non-western mathematics: 2+2=3
@@Claude_van what disingenuous nonsense lmao
@@ihatecoffee7185 like the neo-Marxist discourse.
@@Claude_van get off the internet 🧍♂️
I do my best!
Thanks for this. I am working on a theory that the entire well tempered clavier is the based on the bible.
There is a vast theological difference between seeing music as reflecting, divine revelation, or order, and seeing music itself as God. I doubt very much that Buck would have prescribed to the latter position.
I agree that he probably wouldn't equate music with God Himself in such a way. But that music can invoke and mamifest the divine, which becomes kind of like a reflection.
@@FilipHolm Yes, that is possible.
I disagree wit your statement that Bach was not a philosopher or theologian. If you read the monograph I sent to you a year ago I do think you would see that there is enough evidence (of more than one kind) that says the opposite. Are you implying that because he didn't write a formal treatise in either field it disqualifies him form being either. As you expressed in your video, he did channel much of his philosophy/theology in his music as evidenced in the myriad details of symbolism and esoteric structures. Bach was, indeed, a learned musician which actually was somewhat expected to some extent among professional composers for the church at the time. I do, however, think you did a very good job of presenting this tricky, complex subject. Have you read THE book on Bach by the noted Bach scholar, Christoph Wolff, "Johann Sebastian Bach, The Learned Musician"?
Interesting points! Being a philosopher and musician often went hand in hand historically, after all.
I will have to check out thebwork you mentioned!
@@FilipHolm Thanks, Filip. I know that you are a very busy man. (I assume you are referring to Wolff's book.) If you have the time I would like to hear back from you if you could take a look at my monograph that I emailed it to you 11/22/22. (You have interesting timing.)
From the quotes that you are presenting Bach sounds like he was alligning himself a bit with pietism.
Bach was a Christian through and through. It's such a leap to assume he had anything to do with philosophers who departed from Christian orthodoxy. The reason Bach thought God was present in music is not explained in philosophy or metaphysics but is explained in one verse:
Psalm 22:3 KJV
[3] But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel
"I play the notes as they are written but it is God who makes the music."
~ JS Bach
Bach is the 5th evangelist! Believe the gospel! Believe in Christ!
what the heck i had no clue lets talk religion had a yt channel about music
and hes a fellow bachbro. nice
What would J.S. Bach think about gangsta rap?
''Insolent noise'' I imagine or words to that effect.
Is there "western" music that is NOT European?
This is a verbose and pompous non-believer attempting to explain a dedicated Christian man's life's work.
He cannot imagine why Bach WAS a believer in the Gospel of Christ and why he wrote "J.J." (Jesu Juva - Jesus Help Me) at the top and, "S.D.G." (Only to God the Glory) at the bottom of his composition pages of his church works.
Bach truly believed the words he set to music. There is no need to explain in this belittling way what Bach accomplished. Bach himself explained what he did.
God works in mankind.
This video is tiresome and achieves exactly nothing.
I wonder what Bach would have thought about the darker forms of heavy-metal music. I think the satanic aspects of some of it, especially with lyrics glorifying the Devil, might have turned him off. Or maybe he would have separated the lyrics from the music, in his mind; I don’t know. I don’t think he’d have liked rap at all; of the three elements of music, melody, harmony, and rhythm, rap has only one: rhythm. I’m probably projecting here-I don’t like rap, so I think Bach wouldn’t like it either. I could be wrong!
If I'm realistic, I don't think he would much enjoy either metal or rap music. It just seems to be the natural reaction to how music evolves and would be so different from the music he was used to. And I enjoy both of those genres.
I don't know for sure though! It's a very interesting question.
I would hope Luther respected the Lutheran church...and it's music. He wrote "A Mighty Fortress is our God" after all.
Yeah, just to echo others, Bach clearly loved Jesus and clearly believed music was from God. As he was dying, he said to his wife, "do not weep for me - I am going where all the music comes from!"
If music objectively expresses "the divine", then what does it express to atheists?
Thanks but look at the structure of Bach’s composition, not popular philosophies of his time. He was an artist who used the structure and tonality of music as its own language, not an example of something else. He spells out his message in the notation, his medium. Scruffy persons in T shirts might confine their comments to college classrooms, not attempt to define a composer. Analyze Bach’s notation. That is his message.
Plato never said that God was music itself. For Plato, God is the Idea of the Good.
Yes, and the Form of the Forms, so that all the Forms/ideas participate in the divine, and those forms then become manifested in the sensible world, including music.
It's so strange to be constantly exposed to music from these composer who wrote music to exalt God in an increasingly athiest society. You can feel what it's like to have faith but you can't quite reach it with modern eyes.
It’s impossible to create such music our days. We’re talking 1700 s. The time the environment was right for that classical pieces in modern days no way have the inspiration for such creativity..
I am praise #666 and will offer thoughts soon.
Don’t bother
Don't take me wrong , i love Bach and i loved him all through my life 🎉🎉🎉 until i found to my dismay how HYPERINFLATED HE WAS 😢😢 Dishonest Musicologists did attribute to Bach what's not his own 😢 it's creepy, unfair, uneducated to put Bach's name on what are simply TRANSCRIPTIONS OR ARRANGEMENTS 😢and still worse is to pass as Bach's Originals , the Works of some minor but harmonically inspired Composers just to give those works more blaze, more value 🎉🎉🎉 After all during his life Bach was mister Nobody , hence how do you explain the EXPLOSION OF HIS FAME one hundred years later , same years of German Kulturkampf ? 😮😮😮 PLEASE start telling the real Story about Bach 😢 BACH IS ABSOLUTELY A GIANT , let's take away from him the bad taint of a greatest plagiarizer ❤❤❤
Please, don't get me wrong, I really don't understand your write up.
@@ibrahimyohanna5491 thanks for your attention , sorry if you're sensible 🤔😠😡 Simply put : TOO MANY WORKS unfairly attributed to Bach when EVERY EDUCATED LISTENERS know it was a dishonest 'cultural' operation
Citations needed
@@dave1370😊 thanks for asking ; just for one , please search for this : VIVALDI OPUS 3 CONCERTO n.11 rv565 , TRANSC. BACH 596 . 😮😮 Me as everyone , had always deemed it was ONE OF THE MASTERPIECES from Bach , and an Original work of him ; sorry 😢😢 Another ? BACH 1065 is VIVALDI 580 , arranged for harpsichord. Cheers , have a good life .
His religious view on music isn't anything special. Most people throughout history thought music was something divine. Which it isn't.
I don’t think you’ve listened enough to the right music
Bach would certainly not like it if music were used as background noise to the spoken word. Don't do that!
Baroque music (non-sacred) was almost entirely background noise at social events.
I actually met Bach in a bar in Brooklyn and he didn't seem to mind the background music. He actually sang The Piano Man
Of course he wouldnt, hes not us. We are not him, which is why we do instead
@@a1r383 Music as background noise probably works with Handel. 👍 You should stick to him.
@@ddrse Bach doesn’t leave his home in the Bronx. Everyone knows.😢
Bach isn't related to Spinoza at all lol, that's so forced, he even probably would've hated him. We don't need to pretend Bach was in accordance with contemporary philosophy to admire him.
I guess if I could notice a difference between Bach contemporaries and him is that his contemporaries probably saw music as an instrument to religion, while Bach saw it as pure art, a representation of some kind of Platonic world, or to God, which we can approach through mathematical perfection, which is the closest thing to the ideal world
Well, if someone disagrees I'm happy to discuss. I'm curious about how you can make a parallel between Bach and Spinoza.
A guy who looks like John Lithgow named John Butt convinced you that JS Bach, who wrote nothing of philosophy or metaphysics, had specifically a pronounced metaphysical philosophy of music?
You might wanna call Buckaroo Banzai because you're dealing with the eighth dimension here.
That's where I like to be
"I always preferred grandpa's jello sweets and gold bird variations."
- G. E. Bach
More seriously.... seriously? The lack of primary sources doesn't indicate lack of a philosophy... That's what makes a video like this interesting. It wouldn't be so interesting, if the situation were: "Music is my job - its meaning, for me, is that I try to write music that they'll pay for. It's all 'function music', to me - liturgy, wedding, funeral... what's it for?" - JS Mock. Since we don't have such a sad smoking gun, it's fun to look at secondary sources, or worse (!) and try to suss it out and even speculate, and yeah some of it might be a little sus, but that's okay this isn't a scientific journal.
Demonic music.
When a secular philosopher tries to understand theology as an atheist, he fails as this video has. What a disappointment. You have completely failed to understand Bach's faith.
Filip isn't a secular philosopher or a philosopher and he doesn't even describe himself as an atheist as matter of fact in one of his QandA he said he was and a agnostic so you messed that up and also you make the false and asinine assumption that an atheist can't understand theology which is just wrong and set this idea out only that only those who believe in a god or religion or either religious can which is just wrong
@@miguelatkinson you clearly don't believe in punctuation and your sole commandment is "thou shalt not use periods"
@@Organic_Organist and clearly your commandment is "though shalt not address one's points"
@@miguelatkinson because there's nothing to address.
Bach was no bleeding pantheist.
"What is called good and evil, is better understood as harmony and disharmony within the cosmic symphony" - Engelflaed
What work is this from I could not find the author.
-tolkien
@@AzothDee It's what I call my 'Daimon' :)
@@vancemiller4611thank you
Still, beautiful music can't exist without dissonance.
When I listen to Bach I have the impression that he is attuned to an eternal flow which I can’t define,being agnostic,of the life force,perhaps the Devine,but,in any case,reassuring.
✝️ Soli Deo Gloria ✝️
No metaphisics, just pure devotion and love of God.
"The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul."
Johann Sebastian Bach
S.D.G.
that literally is what metaphysics is. metaphysics literally means "after (or outside) the physical world", that's what God and the soul are
There's things outside the physical world (meta-physical), that are not God, but non-physical phenomena, not necessarily our Creator. @@hello-rq8kf
@@hello-rq8kf There exists a difference between the concept of theology/god and metaphysics. Metaphysics can simply mean the world beyond of our representational one, or the world that exists outsideof the representational filter of human consciousness. You can very generally summarize the difference between the two in that Metaphysics in it's philosophical roots will in turn consist of philosophical explanation and inquiry, while religion deals far more with theism and god, and is rooted in non-philosophical concepts.