Found your website via Google searching why urea is needed prior to precipitation with SMB. Thank you so very very much for your content and your dedication to answering questions. Much love for that and I hope to very soon have a nice bar of 99.95% gold thanks to your advice.
In short- free nitrogen ions may cause gold to redissolve after precipitation. Urea kills those ions. In detail- If your ratios of metal and catalyst (MX-3 or sodium nitrate or nitric acid) are incorrect (too much catalyst), then not all the free nitrogen ions will get used up in the dissolution process. Urea reacts with those ions (you will see a fizzing or bubbling as it reacts), neutralizing them. It is much preferable to have a proper ratio than to need to add a lot of urea. This is particularly true when working with smb. SMB precipitates very tiny particles of gold, so inadvertant losses are more common than not because tiny particles are very commonly lost when decanting or filtering. The addition of significant amounts of urea greatly exaggerates this micro-sized particle problem.
YOU ARE A DUMB %^$*&*&^)( THE BEST DENOX IS SULFAMIC ACID FROM HOME DEPOT , UREA IS A BASE WHEN YOU MIX IT WITH OTHER CHEMICALS IT WILL BLOW UP. LEARN YOUR CHEMICALS
@@angelooldman7201 Angelo, old man, you appear to be misinformed (we won't mention anything about rudeness). If urea is added quickly to a hot aqua regia solution, it will rapidly dissolve and react to free nitrogen to release a lot of gas (what you refer to as a "blow up"). This is also true of sulfamic acid. Sulfamic acid differs from urea in that it produces sulfuric acid in its reaction with the aqua regia. This may or may not be advantageous for you. Urea is the standard choice for virtually all major refining companies, but that doesn't mean it is necessarily the best choice for you. The best choice for you is the one that you are most comfortable with.
when recovering gold from 14K jewelry do I still have to inquart it with silver or copper in order to reduce the gold concentration by creating a new alloy so dissolve the metal?
Inquartation is a technique generally only employed when refining using nitric acid (not aqua regia, just straight nitric). This is not useful and is often counterproductive when refining with the aqua regia technique.
Will white gold disturb the process? Also, Should I replace Sodium Metabisulfate with a quadratic precipitant? To get the precipitated particles to be larger and aid in the recovery?
Some white gold is alloyed with platinum group metal (unusual). That alloy will slow the dissolving process. Most white gold is nickel alloyed, and that alloy will have no negative effect. Quadratic will precipitate larger particles. Quadratic/smb mix will also result in larger particles.
@@alienrocketscienceshared8454 Yeah, I have completely changed my mind about this method of refining! It's absolutely junk science. Now, 10 months later and after learning the true way to refine, I have refined 8 ounces of gold to three 9's fine and the same with silver. I am now also growing pure silver in my silver cell. This whole method by Shor is sub par and most will fail! I wasted my money and time with their method! Anyone that is looking to refine gold and silver should visit Sreetips on youtube. He is a true master at refining and will teach the real way!
saludos desde venezuela gracias por su enseñansas reciba muchas bendiones una pregunta como es la precentacion comercial del mx3 y en que sitios lo venden gracias
MX-3 is only available from Shor. However, you can substitute sodium nitrate. Sodium nitrate comes in pellet form. These pellets must be crushed before they are used because sodium nitrate is very, very slow to dissolve when in pellet form.
Correct, no addition of silver is required or recommended. The process that requires the addition of silver is called "inquartation", and works by dissolving the non-gold in a solution of nitric acid only. That process is very simple, but has the drawbacks requiring nitric acid, generating huge volumes of highly corrosive fumes and the resulting gold purity is only 95-98%,
It is likely that you just don't have enough btu's in your torch. If the mud is not melting, just darkening, then this is the case. Pure gold melts at about 100 C degrees higher than karat gold, so you need much more btu's to get it to melt. You should use a torch that incorporates both gas and either compressed air or oxygen.
Silver is converted to silver chloride, an insoluble salt. So when the solution is decanted prior to precipitation, the silver chloride particles are left behind and can be rinsed, dried and recovered at that time.
Yes, but the real question is- Is it economical for this kind of material? The answer is- It depends. If your ore is concentrates, then the answer is yes. If not, then you'll want to use mining techniques to concentrate it first.
I heard that mbs will also precipitate Pt or Pd so the end product will have Pt and Pd if they were in the solution. I got nicer looking precipitation with your quadratic precipitant but does it also precipitate Pt or Pd with it? Some people are using iron sulfate to drop the gold claiming that it does not precipitate Pt or Pd. Please advise, thanks!
Just goes to show that you can't trust much of what you find on the web. That simply is not true. While sodium metabisulfate has many, many serious drawbacks, it is highly selective and will never precipitate anything except gold. Quadratic Precipitant, sulfur dioxide and ferrous sulfate are also highly selective and will never drop anything except gold.
I would like to make this my primary method of precious metal refining, couple of questions! (1): I’m interested in using this on heavy metal concentrations panned or tabled from ore and soil-is that okay 👌? (2): my concentrates are very heavy in not only gold, but also platinum metal group metals, palladium...etc. can those also be precipitated out of solution individually? Thank you so much for your precious time in advance,
Yes, aqua regia is commonly used to refine this kind of material. Platinum requires ammonium chloride as the precipitant. Palladium requires sodium chlorate (not chloride). The gold should be precipitated first because the test for dissolved precious metals will only work for platinum group metals after all the gold has been precipitated.
Shor International thank you so much for your reply. One last question: I’m looking at buying the kit from amzon how much gold AND platinum will this kitty process, and what materials list would you recommend for best results, highest yield, and most material processed. Let’s say for a customer lacking any applicable material but wanting to stay the most comprehensive and up to date ? I know time is valuable, so again, thank you in advance.
@@hughstan1 The kit contains 1 pound each of MX-3, Quadratic Precipitant & Ammonium Chloride. 1 pound of MX-3 will dissolve 1 pound of metal. Precipitation of precious metals requires the addition of a weight of precipitant equal to the total weight of dissolved metals (all dissolved metals, not just the precious metal content).
@@alienrocketscienceshared8454 this is awesome that you shared this. Thank you! Two years is along time, and I’ve come along way. But little bits of info like this would have made my growing pains allot less painful. But I have found success, depending on how you measure that, and I work with some great providers, forums, and my customers are top tier. Again, this is fantastic information to have out there for anyone who comes across this though, do yourself a favor ( anyone out there trying to learn) hit the metal forums, join, buy the PROFESSIONAL literature to get a good foundation. These clowns only want to sell you tools. They don’t care about your success. Anyway, cheers 🍻
Once i get the gold mud one type was brown and ather type was just like gold mud when i try to melt one type didn't melt n remains as soil dust and ather was melt but that was not gold just like brown stone ,what the reason why i cannot gain the gold and can i order the presapitant from shor in Australia or pakistan
The particles of gold that precipitate will vary in color, depending entirely upon the size and shape of the particles. Light brown, very dark brown, yellow, and are typical. It is not unusual to have more than one color in the same precipitate. This color is unimportant. Once melted, it all takes on the same 24K color, regardless of the color of the particles. Pure gold melts at a significantly higher temperature than karat gold. Consequently, if you don't get it hot enough, long enough, it will not melt and will simply look like dirt. No worries, you can always go back and reheat it, this time get it sufficiently hot. Don't worry about getting it too hot- pure gold doesn't oxidize.
@@sayedalisafishah6666 HCl rinsing is neither necessary nor recommended. Just rinse as per the video instructions. When melting, heat the crucible, not the metal. If you apply a torch directly to the metal, you will blow the powder out of the crucible, losing it. When using a new crucible, be sure to flux it first to seal the pores of the crucible.
When i dissolve gold ore in aqua Regia after filtering aqua Regia it gives dark green color after that adding urea and then smb but there is no particals setling in bottom sometime liquid become dark brown and sometime remains same, what i do???
Sodium metabisulfite is highly effective in precipitating gold. However, it has several unpleasant side effects. One of these effects is the size of precipitated particles. They tend to be very tiny, so they tend to float in solution. They also often pass right through filterpaper. The best way to recover these particles is centrifuge. However, that method is not available for most people. The alternative is slow and careful decanting. The decant must be done several times, allowing a full day to pass between decanting, so that particles have a chance to settle. In the future, you might want to consider using a precipitant that results in large, heavy particles. These include: sulfur dioxide gas, ferrous sulfate, and quadratic precipitant.
@@sayedalisafishah6666 The ammonia rinse is only required when the copper percentage is very high- higher than is typical with 14K or 18K gold. Alternative rinses are with either nitric or hydrochloric acid (but not both!).
@@sayedalisafishah6666 It is very likely that the reason you are unable to melt your pure gold is that you simply aren't getting your gold hot enough. Pure gold melts at a significantly higher temperature than karat gold. So a torch that is hot enough to melt karat gold may not be supplying enough btu's to melt pure gold. With regard to the side-effects of smb- very small particle size and strong, very unpleasant, eye tearing odor are simply characteristics of this chemical. They are unavoidable if you want to use smb.
@@alienrocketscienceshared8454 Household ammonia is 0.3% strength. Ammonia hydroxide is 30% strength. So, sort of the same thing, if you ignore the fact that ammonia hydroxide is 10 times stronger than houselhold ammonia.
New sub here. Love this channel already! The kit I have right now has Sodium Nitrate, Sodium Metabisulfite and Urea. I also have the Stannous chloride and ammonia test solution. Will these work with the same procedure that is in this video? Thank you for your time.
Yes they will, with the following provisos- Sodium nitrate dissolves very slowly, so crush it first. You may also need to heat the solution slightly and stir for a while. Sodium metabisulfite (smb) works well, even at room temperature but the particles of gold that precipitate are very, very tiny. They tend to float. You will need to decant the solution several times (waiting for a day between decanting) to avoid losing gold. Don't use a filter. Filters will catch some of the particles but many will pass right through the filter. Typical loses if you don't take these steps with the smb precipitated gold are about 3-1/2%.
@@shorinternational3841 Thank you so much for your timely reply! Very Very appreciated!! Now this is the same method for karat gold as opposed to plated gold?
Not sure where you get this idea that you can't use the same precipitant in a second refining. However, since this kit employs Quadratic Precipitant, which is not sodium based, the point appears to be moot.
@@blaniardmarshall8924 so many people have refined actuel with the shor method.i might buy this kit and try it out i have a bunch of chips pins and fingers ive saved over the last 15 yrs been wanting to try this for yrs but for safety reasons have not, apt living and all this will at least be a learning experience thank you
Found your website via Google searching why urea is needed prior to precipitation with SMB.
Thank you so very very much for your content and your dedication to answering questions.
Much love for that and I hope to very soon have a nice bar of 99.95% gold thanks to your advice.
In short- free nitrogen ions may cause gold to redissolve after precipitation. Urea kills those ions. In detail- If your ratios of metal and catalyst (MX-3 or sodium nitrate or nitric acid) are incorrect (too much catalyst), then not all the free nitrogen ions will get used up in the dissolution process. Urea reacts with those ions (you will see a fizzing or bubbling as it reacts), neutralizing them. It is much preferable to have a proper ratio than to need to add a lot of urea. This is particularly true when working with smb. SMB precipitates very tiny particles of gold, so inadvertant losses are more common than not because tiny particles are very commonly lost when decanting or filtering. The addition of significant amounts of urea greatly exaggerates this micro-sized particle problem.
YOU ARE A DUMB %^$*&*&^)( THE BEST DENOX IS SULFAMIC ACID FROM HOME DEPOT , UREA IS A BASE WHEN YOU MIX IT WITH OTHER CHEMICALS IT WILL BLOW UP. LEARN YOUR CHEMICALS
@@angelooldman7201 Angelo, old man, you appear to be misinformed (we won't mention anything about rudeness). If urea is added quickly to a hot aqua regia solution, it will rapidly dissolve and react to free nitrogen to release a lot of gas (what you refer to as a "blow up"). This is also true of sulfamic acid. Sulfamic acid differs from urea in that it produces sulfuric acid in its reaction with the aqua regia. This may or may not be advantageous for you. Urea is the standard choice for virtually all major refining companies, but that doesn't mean it is necessarily the best choice for you. The best choice for you is the one that you are most comfortable with.
@@angelooldman7201 bye bye
@@blaniardmarshall8924 the all caps is a quick giveaway that the person probably has made worse decisions. Sad people doing Sad things
when recovering gold from 14K jewelry do I still have to inquart it with silver or copper in order to reduce the gold concentration by creating a new alloy so dissolve the metal?
Inquartation is a technique generally only employed when refining using nitric acid (not aqua regia, just straight nitric). This is not useful and is often counterproductive when refining with the aqua regia technique.
Will white gold disturb the process? Also, Should I replace Sodium Metabisulfate with a quadratic precipitant? To get the precipitated particles to be larger and aid in the recovery?
Some white gold is alloyed with platinum group metal (unusual). That alloy will slow the dissolving process. Most white gold is nickel alloyed, and that alloy will have no negative effect.
Quadratic will precipitate larger particles. Quadratic/smb mix will also result in larger particles.
@@shorinternational3841 Thank you so much for being open to questions. Very commendable!!! Quadratic/Smb mix, like 50/50?
@@alienrocketscienceshared8454 Yeah, I have completely changed my mind about this method of refining! It's absolutely junk science. Now, 10 months later and after learning the true way to refine, I have refined 8 ounces of gold to three 9's fine and the same with silver. I am now also growing pure silver in my silver cell. This whole method by Shor is sub par and most will fail! I wasted my money and time with their method! Anyone that is looking to refine gold and silver should visit Sreetips on youtube. He is a true master at refining and will teach the real way!
anyone have a video of this being used?
saludos desde venezuela gracias por su enseñansas reciba muchas bendiones una pregunta como es la precentacion comercial del mx3 y en que sitios lo venden gracias
MX-3 is only available from Shor. However, you can substitute sodium nitrate. Sodium nitrate comes in pellet form. These pellets must be crushed before they are used because sodium nitrate is very, very slow to dissolve when in pellet form.
Does this kit and process not require that you add silver in with your gold?
Correct, no addition of silver is required or recommended. The process that requires the addition of silver is called "inquartation", and works by dissolving the non-gold in a solution of nitric acid only. That process is very simple, but has the drawbacks requiring nitric acid, generating huge volumes of highly corrosive fumes and the resulting gold purity is only 95-98%,
Sir plz help me to guide
When i get the brown mud from aqua Regia then melt it became black i didn't understand what to do?
It is likely that you just don't have enough btu's in your torch. If the mud is not melting, just darkening, then this is the case. Pure gold melts at about 100 C degrees higher than karat gold, so you need much more btu's to get it to melt. You should use a torch that incorporates both gas and either compressed air or oxygen.
@@shorinternational3841 thanks for reply i will do
can i get the silver out of the solution after i get all the gold out, i am refining bench sweeps that is silver and gold
Silver is converted to silver chloride, an insoluble salt. So when the solution is decanted prior to precipitation, the silver chloride particles are left behind and can be rinsed, dried and recovered at that time.
@@shorinternational3841 thank you for the reply
.
Does this system work with gold ore
Yes, but the real question is- Is it economical for this kind of material? The answer is- It depends. If your ore is concentrates, then the answer is yes. If not, then you'll want to use mining techniques to concentrate it first.
I heard that mbs will also precipitate Pt or Pd so the end product will have Pt and Pd if they were in the solution.
I got nicer looking precipitation with your quadratic precipitant but does it also precipitate Pt or Pd with it?
Some people are using iron sulfate to drop the gold claiming that it does not precipitate Pt or Pd.
Please advise, thanks!
Just goes to show that you can't trust much of what you find on the web. That simply is not true. While sodium metabisulfate has many, many serious drawbacks, it is highly selective and will never precipitate anything except gold.
Quadratic Precipitant, sulfur dioxide and ferrous sulfate are also highly selective and will never drop anything except gold.
I can’t read the reply
Is it the same method to do chemical extract fir diamond and gems 💎 correct ?
Yes, this method is often employed to dismount stones. Please note that soft stones, like turquoise and pearls, are damaged by aqua regia.
I would like to make this my primary method of precious metal refining, couple of questions!
(1): I’m interested in using this on heavy metal concentrations panned or tabled from ore and soil-is that okay 👌?
(2): my concentrates are very heavy in not only gold, but also platinum metal group metals, palladium...etc. can those also be precipitated out of solution individually?
Thank you so much for your precious time in advance,
Yes, aqua regia is commonly used to refine this kind of material. Platinum requires ammonium chloride as the precipitant. Palladium requires sodium chlorate (not chloride). The gold should be precipitated first because the test for dissolved precious metals will only work for platinum group metals after all the gold has been precipitated.
Shor International thank you so much for your reply. One last question: I’m looking at buying the kit from amzon how much gold AND platinum will this kitty process, and what materials list would you recommend for best results, highest yield, and most material processed. Let’s say for a customer lacking any applicable material but wanting to stay the most comprehensive and up to date ? I know time is valuable, so again, thank you in advance.
@@hughstan1
The kit contains 1 pound each of MX-3, Quadratic Precipitant & Ammonium Chloride. 1 pound of MX-3 will dissolve 1 pound of metal. Precipitation of precious metals requires the addition of a weight of precipitant equal to the total weight of dissolved metals (all dissolved metals, not just the precious metal content).
@@alienrocketscienceshared8454 this is awesome that you shared this. Thank you! Two years is along time, and I’ve come along way. But little bits of info like this would have made my growing pains allot less painful. But I have found success, depending on how you measure that, and I work with some great providers, forums, and my customers are top tier. Again, this is fantastic information to have out there for anyone who comes across this though, do yourself a favor ( anyone out there trying to learn) hit the metal forums, join, buy the PROFESSIONAL literature to get a good foundation. These clowns only want to sell you tools. They don’t care about your success. Anyway, cheers 🍻
Once i get the gold mud one type was brown and ather type was just like gold mud when i try to melt one type didn't melt n remains as soil dust and ather was melt but that was not gold just like brown stone ,what the reason why i cannot gain the gold and can i order the presapitant from shor in Australia or pakistan
The particles of gold that precipitate will vary in color, depending entirely upon the size and shape of the particles. Light brown, very dark brown, yellow, and are typical. It is not unusual to have more than one color in the same precipitate. This color is unimportant. Once melted, it all takes on the same 24K color, regardless of the color of the particles.
Pure gold melts at a significantly higher temperature than karat gold. Consequently, if you don't get it hot enough, long enough, it will not melt and will simply look like dirt. No worries, you can always go back and reheat it, this time get it sufficiently hot. Don't worry about getting it too hot- pure gold doesn't oxidize.
@@shorinternational3841 thanks for reply
After gold filtration from aqua Regia is it necessary to wash gold mud by Hcl? And what is melting method?
@@sayedalisafishah6666 HCl rinsing is neither necessary nor recommended. Just rinse as per the video instructions. When melting, heat the crucible, not the metal. If you apply a torch directly to the metal, you will blow the powder out of the crucible, losing it. When using a new crucible, be sure to flux it first to seal the pores of the crucible.
@@shorinternational3841 I didn't have ammonia any alternate for rinsing
When i dissolve gold ore in aqua Regia after filtering aqua Regia it gives dark green color after that adding urea and then smb but there is no particals setling in bottom sometime liquid become dark brown and sometime remains same, what i do???
Sodium metabisulfite is highly effective in precipitating gold. However, it has several unpleasant side effects. One of these effects is the size of precipitated particles. They tend to be very tiny, so they tend to float in solution. They also often pass right through filterpaper. The best way to recover these particles is centrifuge. However, that method is not available for most people. The alternative is slow and careful decanting. The decant must be done several times, allowing a full day to pass between decanting, so that particles have a chance to settle. In the future, you might want to consider using a precipitant that results in large, heavy particles. These include: sulfur dioxide gas, ferrous sulfate, and quadratic precipitant.
@@shorinternational3841 if ammonia not available then how i clean my solution? Spacial if copper in solution
@@sayedalisafishah6666 The ammonia rinse is only required when the copper percentage is very high- higher than is typical with 14K or 18K gold. Alternative rinses are with either nitric or hydrochloric acid (but not both!).
@@shorinternational3841 you say that smb has some side-effect what is the causes of side-effect? And i tried many times to melt gold but i can't did
@@sayedalisafishah6666 It is very likely that the reason you are unable to melt your pure gold is that you simply aren't getting your gold hot enough. Pure gold melts at a significantly higher temperature than karat gold. So a torch that is hot enough to melt karat gold may not be supplying enough btu's to melt pure gold.
With regard to the side-effects of smb- very small particle size and strong, very unpleasant, eye tearing odor are simply characteristics of this chemical. They are unavoidable if you want to use smb.
are you use ammonia or ammonium hydroxide to rise the gold powder.
You can rinse with regular household ammonia, no need for the strong stuff.
@@alienrocketscienceshared8454 Household ammonia is 0.3% strength. Ammonia hydroxide is 30% strength. So, sort of the same thing, if you ignore the fact that ammonia hydroxide is 10 times stronger than houselhold ammonia.
New sub here. Love this channel already! The kit I have right now has Sodium Nitrate, Sodium Metabisulfite and Urea. I also have the Stannous chloride and ammonia test solution. Will these work with the same procedure that is in this video? Thank you for your time.
Yes they will, with the following provisos- Sodium nitrate dissolves very slowly, so crush it first. You may also need to heat the solution slightly and stir for a while. Sodium metabisulfite (smb) works well, even at room temperature but the particles of gold that precipitate are very, very tiny. They tend to float. You will need to decant the solution several times (waiting for a day between decanting) to avoid losing gold. Don't use a filter. Filters will catch some of the particles but many will pass right through the filter. Typical loses if you don't take these steps with the smb precipitated gold are about 3-1/2%.
@@shorinternational3841 Thank you so much for your timely reply! Very Very appreciated!! Now this is the same method for karat gold as opposed to plated gold?
@@shorinternational3841 Also Should I heat during whole process and will 19% muriatic be okay in this method? Thank you so much for your time!
@@JustJeff62 Heating will speed the reaction but not recommended. 19% muriatic will work.
@@JustJeff62 Same except you should remove the material after the gold is dissolved off the surface. Don't waste chemicals dissolving base metal.
Where to get the kit?
Thank you
www.ishor.com/aqua-regia-gold-refining-system
Doain aqu agar sukses di bidang pehiasan
Konse languages CD milsakte total process
I used this kit and had no luck at all.
After this process I understand it will leave the Au at best at a 99.95%. How to go from 99.95% Au to 999.9 or even 999.99%?
No problem, just refine the result a second time. That is standard procedure.
Not sure where you get this idea that you can't use the same precipitant in a second refining. However, since this kit employs Quadratic Precipitant, which is not sodium based, the point appears to be moot.
Are there any videos of someone actually doing this process that makes sense? These videos are so confusing and hard to follow
I did everything the video said for the metal dissolving step but my metal didn't dissolve, plus help
Please provide much more detail- Material being refined, temperature, time running etc.
2:17 At this point something is said?
Hi hopping wel some time urea is not showing any reaction.in this matter what will do...remember i have manuals equipment
It is preferable to not get a reaction when adding urea. It means your chemical/metal ratios that you used were perfect.
@@shorinternational3841 ... Its mean if the urea did not showing action we can add smb
What is better for result...smb...or iron sulfate
U r a good teacher...great job u r doing...hopping wel for u.
@@humamfarrukh9743 Yes, it is time to add your precipitant.
bana türkcesini ceviri yapar atabilirmisin
Material cost Kya h
The kit cost just under $60. Replacement supplies cost $1-2 per ounce of scrap metal being refined (non-metals don't count).
Sir Mere no pe WhatsApp 7207203206 contact kijiye
I want this kit
@@shorinternational3841 i want this kit whatsapp 0966509696427
has anyone actually refined any gold using this kit?
At the present time, just under 1,000 people.
@@blaniardmarshall8924 so many people have refined actuel with the shor method.i might buy this kit and try it out i have a bunch of chips pins and fingers ive saved over the last 15 yrs been wanting to try this for yrs but for safety reasons have not, apt living and all this will at least be a learning experience thank you
Trying it out today
All prossse