Customer States: YOU Messed Up my Diesel! Why We DON'T PREFILL FILTERS. Ford F250 6.7 DIESEL
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We talked about this tonight on the Wednesday tech talk
No reason to prefill the filter
Powerstroke Tech Talk With Arod -
I'll Cover this on the manufacturers side as well in an upcoming video
There is no reason to prefill....you can flood mode the Ford vehicles to pull oil in and prime that way as well
I do not prefilled filters it's an old wives tale to do so
You have plenty of oil in that engine that is coating the metal still and will not cause any issues starting it without prefilling
Sorry about the little typos, clear flood mode on the gasoline engines is if you have a ignition key after an oil change just hold down the Gas Pedal and turn the key forward as if you're trying to start it and it will temporarily disable the injectors so you can crank over the engine and pull oil into the system
If you have a push to start vehicle you have to hold the brake and the gas while pushing the button and let it crank for about four - five seconds and then let go of the gas while still holding the brake in the vehicle start and that will also pre-fill the system for you
On the Diesels they don't have clear flood mode so the oil change is done exactly like you did it in this video which is the proper way to do it to keep contaminants out of the system
Another take about why it is not necessary to prefill.
Most argument for prefilling with sort of "bleeding" the oil system.
Well, the filter is positioned in a way that it automatically bleeds itself. And whatever little air remains doesn't matter.
Also the filter is behind the oil pump, so it gets pressurized. It may be a different animal if a filter is in front of a pump and you may run into the risk of creating a vacuum in the system and have the pump run dry.
Prefill is only something you should do when you have replaced an engine, or after an engine was completely dry. It's an argument I had multiple times with lube techs at valvoline when I had to take company trucks there. The only reason to prefilled is with your break in oil, as it's typically a heavier weight, and prefilled filters allow the oil to reach critical components faster
th-cam.com/video/P6MLDH0zTpw/w-d-xo.html
Here’s CAT expert Josh from the Adept Ape channel weighing in on the subject.
At my SC we prime the filters for cummins rams never had to prime a powerstroke or durmax though...
Hello Ray.
I’m a mecanic at the official dealer of Volvo construction equipment in the Netherlands (SMT)
I might have a little tip in how to ceep your hands en elbows clean while unscrewing an oilfilter.
When you loosen the filter a little bit, just enough so you can turn in with youre hands.
Now it’s time to put a large zip bag around the filter.
The leaking oil leaks in the plastic bag and you keep your hands clean.
It’s verry simple and once youre used of doing it this way. Youre gonna ask yourself why you didn’t came up with this idea yourself.
Greetings from the Netherlands.
I use the Walmart bag that I brought the new filter home in!
@balddicknosedasscanoe Wow, now I did not know that! I'll try that on my next oil change. LOL
@@DRPowell Yes same here. Or a grocery bag.
All of that is oil draining from the top of the block. If only filters came with a bottom plug to avoid the waterfall effect...
@@flinch622 that would be a great invention. Maybe we should get that pattented.
We could make a sh*t load of money so we never get our hands and elbows covered in dirty oil again.
If there is that much silicone outside the pan, I wonder how many chunks have flaked off inside and are now lodged in passages
yeah, really makes you think. Usually when you go to the dealership, you pay a premium for them to do it the "right way" and use oem parts. But instead they just slapped way too much RTV all over it and called it good.
@@rusty4252 I did a oil pan and a transmission pan for a friend with RTV and no leaks. You just need to follow the instructions but to be fair I did go to a mechanic school so I knew what I was doing
Yes "silicone worms" inside an engine can block journals and other vital components in an engine and cause premature failure. I was taught by an old mechanic 30 years ago to never use silicone sealant as a gasket.
@@manicmasterofmetal2620 it is used by the manufacturer in many cases for engines, and it is the only method for replacement since there are no gaskets made. The key is to do it right. Follow directions of how large of a nozzle hole, where on the mating surface to put it, how long to let it sit before assembly. Heck some even want it tightened a certain amount, wait x minutes or hours and then final torque. It is a revolutionary sealer, just gotta use the right one and do it the right way.
I thought the same thing. The pick up tube likely has some boogers hanging from it:-)
I love it how you listened to the customer. Confirmed his anger and offered a solution to resolve the problem.
Thanks Ray, I never pre-filled filters because half the time they are on an angle. But now I got the best reason not to do so. You are more than correct about oil cleanliness. I work as an engineer with a company that builds our own tooling. We use a lot of hydraulics. When filling oil I keep on harping to use an oil transfer unit (pump with a 5 micron filter) because even new hydraulic fluid is not clean and hydraulic piston pumps are extremely intolerant of any contamination.
I can't get maintenance when working on hydraulic pumps at work to build, install, or do anything of value in maintenance high pressure pumps. They all think it's just slap stuff together and it's good. while the pump sounds as if it's grinding metal to metal constantly, while seizing up other times. 😂
You are right about the hydraulic oil. I worked on a submarine construction programm for the Greek navy, and had a triple stage filtration system, I think it was from parker, if remember correctly. Besides some fine filters, it preheated the oil and run it through a vacuum chamber, to remove moisture in the oil. A Shell oil specialist, told me that a brand new barrel of oil is not considered clean, for the specific purpose we used it, that's why we treated as I said above.
As far as concerning the filter prefill, I do it every time, I understand that it goes to the clean side but I don't think that it can cause contamination. It's just my opinion, i don't judge people doing otherwise though.
Pre-filling filters is useless. Not done in my shop. Most modern Mercedes filters drain back into the crankcase after every shut down. Leaving an empty filter on every start. This does not ruin engines.
Car wizard
Weeeezard
Funny seeing you here 😂😂
Thank you wizard for solving this question for me.
Nice hearing it from the wizard! Was curious about this.
I'm so proud of Ray for not taking this stuff personally. He's a credit to the industry.
During my time as a mechanic in the military we had a quality control section for incoming/outgoing vehicles. They would road test, verify/check repairs, go over vehicle to ensure any damage is noted before the vehicle is assigned to the mechanic for repairs. Once mechanic has completed repairs it's checked again before customer picks up the vehicle. Probably not practical for the civilian sector shops but it helped insure we were not blamed for any damage that we did not do.
About the priming of a new oil filter, I'm with you. I've been in the automotive industry for over 25years over here in Denmark, albeit on the admin side of the garage. I've never had a tech that had practiced prefilling an oil filter.
Your explanation is spot on.
Enjoy your vids, keep up the great work
I have never even heard about that until he mentioned it. Some people actually thing that's what you do? So weird.
You've never worked with massive oil filters where the manufacture will void warranty if you don't.
One of the most dangerous thought processes, "We've ALWAYS done it that way"... I can honestly say I have almost always done that, guilty as charged. I am smart enough though, to know that when I hear that guys like you, Ford Boss Me, etc., and a major manufacturer say DO NOT do that, then I need to change my way of thinking. Thanks for the education guys, it is much appreciated.
My car has a small filter that sits on its side. You can’t prefill it even if you wanted to. The good thing is you can loosen it to drain down the bulk and avoid too much mess.
I have had the same experience in sports (Bear with me...) when someone says "I've always done it this way", or , "ive done it like this for 20 years!".. My answer as a qualified coach is then you've been doing it wrong for 20 years. But then some just don't to hear that what they've been doing is wrong even when it's from someone qualified to tell them that!
Its common sense that when the manufacturer of a product tells you not to perform a specific action with their product then there's a good reason for it!
I've never prefilled an oil filter on my vehicles. Never knew it was some manufacturer requirement to do it the way I do, my dad just taught me how and simply putting the new filter on right out of the package was the method I learned.
I was taught to not pre-fill. I haven't seen a shop manual that says to pre-fill. There have been lots of people who are a wealth of 3rd hand knowledge, who say that if you don't pre-fill, the engine will grenade itself, because there's no way that an engine can survive 2 seconds without oil pressure.
The same people who never noticed that it takes a second or two for your oil pressure to build up when they start the engine.
I'm not exactly sure what their 3rd hand guidance would be on installing a horizontal oil filter. Maybe lift the whole vehicle in a jig, and roll it sideways? :)
There is a ton of rumors and folklore about any technology, including cars. I'm sure it started with the best intentions, but doesn't do anything to help in the real world. I've learned a lot of the years, actually reading the whole shop manual for cars I worked on a lot. It sounds stupid, but at some point, I've read how to fix every problem. And I've been taught how to fix most problems. So I'm that guy who can give useful advice, even if it's to not make a mess and don't prefill your oil filter. :)
I don't know about his statement of dirty oil getting in the clean oil system, unless the particles were already in the clean oil. It could be an interesting conversation, that won't change anything, other than adding a reason why not to do it.
Ex-military mechanic here.
Worked with all kinds of engines.
Gas - de-rated Continental Aircraft 4 and 6 cylinder opposed engines. 4 and V6 diesels can't remember the make. Gas 4 cylinder Wisconson. 2 cylinder opposed Onan and 1 cylinder Briggs and Strattons.
Most of those had oil filters (the B&S and Onan didn't) we *never* pre-filled oil filters.
Even the Gas Turbine engines which will grenade a whole hell of a lot faster than any diesel, due to the fact that they are balanced to a much tighter tolerance also. They had an oil tank you drained, removed the filter housing and R&R the filter and replace the housing, refill the tank run it up to operating speed then add to the tank. Just as you top off the crankcase on any ICE.
Things I like about Ray
- thoroughness of explanations
- respect for customers, even when difficult
- respect for the customers stuff
- his Pavlovian response to the shop phone
And the man is hilarious in some of his comments
god dammit, we have a small shop with 4 techs and no front desk lady, I hate answering the goddamn shop phone hate it!!!
And his precisely turned torque elbow.
I have been trying to capture an uninterrupted sample of the phone for a ring tone. Ray is quick to make a play on the phone. Haven't scored a good sample yet.
Too bad he is all the way down in FL or I’d take my car to him for maintenance and repairs.
I know practically nothing about automobiles, but I’m fascinated with your detective skills and your ability to tell a story. I’m glad you are healthy after having *the-illness-that-shall-not-be-named*
Love your videos. I appreciate the tips and the views of how you are doing the work. Also enjoy "click", "gravity", "reverse click", "do-di-do", and "loud noises". Very entertaining as well as informative.
Copyright strike. Lumens. Beeeeuuu. Duga dugs. Just added some more. Like you, his videos are great.
Poppen zee hood…..lol😄
Lol, have started catching myself doing some of them when doing maintenance or repairs on my and my wife's vehicles, lol, usually followed by "daggum it, Ray!"
I'm 58 years old that grew up on a farm. I have performed hundreds and hundreds of oil changes on my own and others vehicles. Both diesel and gas. And I have never prefilled a filter. I also have never revved a motor like a madman when starting it up after an oil change. I wait until the pressure is up and the light goes out or the gauge comes up. I then get out and look for leaks still before revving the engine.
I can honestly say I have never had an oil related engine failure since I changed oil regularly and often. Small price to pay. We have diesels that have run for thousands and thousands of hours. There is still a running Oliver at my parents place that may have 30,000 hrs on it. The meter broke in the 70's at 18,000.
I've never heard anyone talk about this until seeing it on the internet and as the person below says. "The internet doesn't build engines"
The one place that I will fill a filter is the fuel filter on a diesel engine.
Growing up on a farm with diesel equipment this is a regular occurrence. Yes, you are right and it is possible you are introducing some contaminants to the fuel system (especially on a farm), but diesels hate to run out of fuel and getting the air out can be a real bitch. I believe this method is taught in diesel mechanics school and I know in the military it is in at least some of the service manuals.
Maybe this is where the internet folks saw the diesel fuel being filled and they decided to follow suit.
Actually, your diesel fuel high pressure fuel pump can be taken out by a particle of grime way smaller than any dust particle that might possibly be in a factory quart or gallon container of oil. Engine bearings do have a certain amount of particle encapsulation ability into the soft bearing material. Injector pumps do not. Many oil time mechanics will tell you to open a fresh quart of automatic transmission fluid and fill the new diesel fuel filters for start up.they feel that’s cleaner than a glass bottle found laying in the shop and used for filling a fuel filter. Me? I prefill my oil filters out of the processors’ containers and my diesel fuel filters out of a clean glass measuring cup from our kitchen cupboard. No issues in over 50 years doing it like this. Hang on to the Oliver. Watch Wes Work would advise the same.
The people who own cars today most have no idea what’s under the bonnet, so when forced to do maintenance have not a clue what to do or how to do it so they fuddle along.
tldr
The trick with a diesel is to fit the filter first then pump fuel through it then close the lines once the air is burped out
Caterpillar and power stroke hpop systems have a Siphon style hpop pump. If you do a full change including the hpop reservoir, and don't prime the filter, the pump will burn up before it can suck enough oil to the injectors.... Found that out the hard way. I prime any vertically mounted filter now. Not like it's difficult.
I subbed for the cut where you zoomed into the pan when it was leaking on the floor while you were talking.. Laughed my ass off
So much suspense!
Its the little things....
I've only prefilled an oil filter a couple times on one or two vehicles. Haven't done it for years now. But Really Glad you explained why you Should *Not* prefill an oil filter. And that makes perfect sense too. Thank Ray for Pointing this out and explaining the "why" behind it. Love tips like this. Just found you channel a few weeks ago, and really enjoy it. Great Channel!
WOW, great information on pre-filling the filter. You have just converted a long time "pre-filler", I thought I was doing the right thing ... but now I know better. Thanks!
Ray, I wish there were more knowledgeable and level headed people like you in this world, what a wonderful world this would be !
There are. Check out... anyone else's TH-cam channel.
I'm sure there's a song in there somewhere🤔
Your videos are very educational. I like the way you stay so calm
honesty and calm&collected attitude go a long way. customers are easy to anger up sometimes, you have no idea what they could or could not have gone through prior to them ending up with you. consequently they;re difficult to defuse since you dont know how they have gotten so heated up. you managed exemplary in that situation and saw what it brings. I just with other shops could take a thing or two...
Good info on pre-filling filters, thank you! I will be discontinuing the practice going forward.
It's not really harmful as they make it out to be but it's not necessary also. I think Ray is just made at people telling him to do it so that now they are against it. The manual for this truck says it doesn't matter.
@@pleasedontwatchthese9593 This is incorrect. If you look into a oil filter the center hole goes right onto the crank. The small holes around the outside are how the oil gets into the filter. When you pre fill a filter you run the risk of getting dirt or other debris into the pan and on the crank, potentially scaring the bearings. So yeah, pre filling can do damage.
If you wanted to prefill an oil filter, why not fill it via the inlet side so that no unfiltered oil ever leaves the filter?
@@martincase7515 because it would be almost impossible to get oil to just go in through there and not splash over down the centre hole, anyway.
Welcome back Ray. Hope your feeling way better. You were sorely missed. Just take it slow and easy. 👍👍
A far superior comment, compared to the idiotic comment at the top.
For anybody who feels that oil filters _must_ be pre-filled: Try that with my Subaru. The filter is mounted to the top of the engine and screws down.
The only time I pre fill filters is if we’ve just freshly built the engine, just so it can pick up oil pressure a little quicker, and that’s only if it’s possible
Older subarus have the oil filter pointing down. But even if it's sideways you can prefill. If you wait five minutes the filter media absorbs a lot of it and it would work upside down too not that much would come out if you wait five minutes.
@@sgtjonzo that's what assembly lube is for...
Great point on pre-filing the filter. Thanks for the pointer, never knew that.
Just my two cents here, but I have a tip for you and dealing with those diesel oil filters, or any standard hanging filters like that. I like to take a small pointed punch and a hammer and poke a hole in the very bottom and center of the filter. Then poke another hole up near the top to assist the flow of oil out of the filter. When you get done draining the oil out of the pan, you pull the filter off, and NO oil mess everywhere.
Love your channel btw, great content!
I used to do that on the upside down oil filter on the old Mazda RX3s. It let the filter drain and worked just great!
Or use a bag, Really anything works better then just screwing it off normally
I just drill a hole in the filter and let it drain.
@@jarredeckman1976 The only issue I see with that, is that when you pull the drill bit from the filter, it would soak your drill in oil.
@@thebigbc420 it could I guess, but I'm just getting through the metal i don't run the bit all the way in. Usually just one short blip on the trigger and it makes a hole.
I’ve prefilled my air filters for decades. Nothing you say will change my mind.🤣
Somehow the bearing damage of having no oil while the filter primes is preferable to a micron of damage from a potential contaminate using a brand new oil bottle. Will never understand the logic behind that. Keep on keeping on brother.
I tend to think like you. Especially with those larger oil filters.
Apparently, the two comments above me didn't get your (reasonably funny) joke.
Just make sure you're lubing with the correct blinker fluid and also always inspect your muffler bearing
Hard to do when they are mounted horizontally
I learned from you a long time ago. Previously I did prefill the filter, but stopped back then. Thanks for the tip.
You are so professional, entertaining and have a positive attitude. Thank you.
Being a automotive technician for 22 years, never pre-filled an oil filter while doing oil changes.
amen to that brother, doing it the right way.
Good to know, learn something new everyday. Neither will I from now on.
@Jeff B- Have YOU started many cars, with oil pressure already in the system??!!
For goodness sake, when clueless about a subject please avoid comments!
IF in doubt, please install a good old oil gauge and OBSERVE. How the pressure in a non running engine is exactly zero! EVERY single time.
It really don't matter which car brand, or if it's gas or diesel. When you cold start them, the pressure read ZERO! ;-)
Been saying it for years; calm and level explanations with 'show and tell' method involved (pictures or physically bringing the customer out to show them issues on the vehicle) will almost always deescalate potentially bad situations and usually earn the trust of a customer back and keep them coming back.
Sometimes it sucks, because then that customer starts to request you and now you have to deal with them every time they need service 😅
@@Straight_White_Fatherly_Figure well thats bc there are so many shitty mechanics out there. Hell one tried to scam my wife in the minutes before i arrived to pick her up.
She needed routine maintenence and they were trying to talk her into a full suspension job but, presented no evidence and used only fear tactics in the sales pitch like "Your wheels are just gonna fly off on the interstate" and other similar threats. The moment i started asking for proof the work needed to be done they panicked and backed down. When i finally argued enough to see the mechanic in person he denied he ever recommended the repairs. It was rather comical seeing the blame game.
@@oceanbytez847 completely understandable. Im in the HVAC business myself, im sure you've heard a lot about us 😅
though, i personally do not fit the more common representation of the "sales technicians" that are out there. Im a service technician, and im as honest as can be. I take pictures and videos to prove my work. In turn, most of the work that i do is for customers who request me through my company, and my company acknowledges/pays me accordingly.
@@oceanbytez847 It took a while, but my widowed daughter finally found an honest and competent independent repair shop. Before that she got constantly hosed by the name-brand tire shop for things like "fuel injection flushes", "air filter relines", and other rip-offs that made no sense. I kept telling her "if it's not in your owner's manual, it's not needed". But their scare tactics kept getting the best of her. My advice to everyone is, stay away from national franchised chains.
@@recentlychanged- Yep! Most franchised run a business model that induce and invite that kind of situation! Usually not good for the customer.
Curious example with a colleague. Male and as funny as it can be, he happens to be a mechanical engineer. So it's not so "blind" regarding mechanical work and is not the stereo type lone girl!
While waiting for a small and totally unrelated repair on his vehicle. The manager comes by and literally dump on is lap, a list of "must do very urgent jobs". The kind of jobs if you don't do it... OMG! You'll crash & burn on the next curve! That style of approach! LOL 😂
Well, long story short! They would have to rebuild the entire rear brake system ASAP. It was about to disintegrate into oblivion! etc, etc.
But following the trend of very crappy professionals they forgot to check their OWN records!! My colleague reached the glove box and pulled out the invoice from their last intervention on his vehicle, about a month prior.
How sarcastic, the job included PRECISELY rear brakes full rebuild! LOL 😂
When deceiving/scamming a client, AT LEAST make your "homework" and get a plausible story! Just saying! ;-)
I love the chill man. Keep it up
Thats an awesome point with the contaminates with the oil filter. I've always prefilled mine but I won't anymore! Great video as always.
Glad you're back Ray, we are all happy to get our daily dose of mechanical zen.
oil drain plug seemed to be extra difficult coming out and going in.!! Great job as always Ray. I wish all technicians had your work ethic. welcome back to work.
Was a Ford right? Always seems to come out tough don't know why
Ive used a ratchet to remove oil drain plugs for 40+ years. Watching him use a wrench was painful to watch. Was it bcuz the plug was so tight?
@@HackHunter1835 that spiked my anxiety to no end watching him fumble with that ridiculous wrench!
Anything you do Ray is fun and good to watch
Glad your feeling better Ray @Rainman Ray's Repairs
One thing I have always found while changing oil and doing services on my Peterbilt is that you can save yourself a mess on diesel trucks by punching a hole in your filter before taking it off!
I do that when possible, but makes a mess also
@@Goultek yeah but it's easier to to have a controlled spill coming out of the bottom of the filter than it coming from the top and coating the filter
Or you can just get the filter loose and put a grocery bag around the filter and spin off the filter. All the oil goes in the bag as you spin. Nice and clean.
I drill a hole in my 7.3s
@@JacobWinkle cool, gonna try that this week
Glad to see you back! Agree on the pre-filling of oil filters. One tip I read in a Honda Service News article was to not break open the plastic on the business end of the filter but, instead, open it on the bottom/closed end of the filter and peel it off toward the open end. That prevents small pieces of plastic from possibly dropping into the center/clean side of the filter. Apparently, Honda had done some analysis of failed engines and found plastic in the engine they attributed to the plastic filter packaging that are on all OE Honda oil filters.
I've heard the same thing.
I've heard of a failed engine because someone forgot to removed said plastic from filter, just screwed it on. if it was that common of an issue for Honda, I wonder why they still have plastic on their filters to began with. most manufactures i deal with they all have their individual boxes
I used to be a Honda tech. Its true what you said about removing the plastic wrapper from the bottom of the filter.
I prefer to buy filters without any plastic wrap on them. Why risk engine damage?
@@LA_Commander If it is just in a box, without any plastic, it could contain all sorts of tiny contaminants. Having said that, I've never had a wrapped filter, every one I've ever fitted was loose in a box, so as long as we handle them cleanly, the risk is low.
Should we check inside to ensure there's no mouse inside, before fitting.
Love your attitude and objectivity.
Thanks for the explanation about prefilled filters. It's something I've always done on my gas engine vehicles. My newer diesel has 3 filters: water/fuel separator filter, fuel filter, and oil filter, all which get changed when an oil change is done (by me, dealership is 3X cost of materials alone). Thanks for the science lesson!!!
Don't do it ever,slap your hand 😂
Save yourself the mess, drain the old oil filter before pulling it. Take an old punch and sharpen it up to a point. Use the point to knock a hole in the bottom of the old oil filter and let it drain while you’re draining the crankcase. Then when you pull the (pre-drained) oil filter there’s no mess when the seal lets loose from the filter gasket surface.
(Heavy truck mechanic, 19 years)
Phillips head screwdriver and a deadblow hammer work too. Works for punching a drain hole, and can also function as a handle to loosen it 👌
@@TheSaltyExplorer tool abuse. My tools are tools and I use screwdrivers for unholy things often, but why do that when my punch is 2 drawers away and is meant just for this purpose? I don't know why anyone would wear their screwdriver tip instead. Phillips already have cam out issues. Wearing the tip by punching metal? That'll make it worse.
@@mannys9130 sure, if you have one and it’s easily accessible, then use a punch if you want. I preferred a cheap Chinese screwdriver for diesel oil filter service, and saved the good ones for their intended purpose. It’s not that serious.
it will be dripping all afternoon plus very often on metal filters it can leave a sharp edge around the hole and it will cut you
@@MrHBSoftware never had that problem. Punch a hole in the bottom, drains for a minute. Take preferred tool and punch through the side and use as a handle to loosen. Bust your hand on the oil pan enough times when your filter wrench slips, and then try my method and let me know how it goes. I’ve probably done at least 1000 diesel oil filters this way now, maybe more. I learned from a Ford Master Diesel Tech back in 2002, been doing it this way ever since. Never once cut my hands on an oil filter, but then again, I don’t have soft little vagina hands either 🤷♂️
Me and my ex boss had an argument about filling oil filters and torque specs. His argument about the 'dry' run time being significantly lower than just spinning the filter on was his go to and that oil filters did not have a torque spec. I proceeded to laugh at him and challenge him to show me ANY manufacturer's recommendation for a filter pre-fill and that the 3/4 turn after seal contact was indeed a torque spec. Couple days later, he tries to tell me that he'd found 'a thread' on the internet and I stopped him right there. "I specifically said manufacturer, last I checked the internet doesn't build cars". He got all pissed off and didn't talk to me for the rest of the day. I love winning arguments that way.
The only thing I could fight you with is that on a 6.0/6.4 powerstroke the filter cap does have a torque spec but that is for the filter cap not the filter it self.
I think its funny when you asked for manufacture info he started stateing info from a Q&A chat room/form what an asshat
@@Giovanni_Litterini He is/was for sure. What I forgot to mention is that he also likes to use a filter wrench to install oil filters. Like over a full turn past seal contact. The irony being that he was trying to lecture me on torque specs while cranking the hell out of the filter he was installing.
Best place for your ex boss is behind his desk doin boss shit and staying the hell out of the shop.
@@JohnHill-qo3hb Well, he is my ex boss.
The Cummins filters are marked. A B C D. Contact at D, turn to C. Some people.
I've only ever had a handful of vehicles that had filters in the right angle where prefilling would make any sort of sense, and those were small enough filters that the "benefit" of not having large air bubble in the oil, didn't outweigh the dangers that I wasn't but should have been aware of. Definitely gained yet another subscriber to the channel there.
Great explanation on the prefill, thanks!
People appreciate honesty and professionalism. Glad your back. You stay safe!
13:10 I heard once "Just because you have been doing something for along time and you never had anything go wrong, doesn't mean you were doing it right."
Whenever I change my oil, I just rub the rim of the filter with old oil and put the plug in and add my new oil.
i LOVE WATCHING YOUR VIDEOS. wHY, Well it is nice to actually see a mechanic not screwing with the clients. There is sadly so many in the automotive business cheating their clients and NOT doing a propper job.
You bring a smile on my lips :)
Thank you for giving me an excuse to no longer prefill filters, sometimes it’s a pain when the filter mounts horizontally lol, whar you say makes sense we sometimes do things because we’ve always done it that way
Lots of great idea’s for catching the filter oil when removing, another thing I do to keep things clean is to use a telescoping magnet to remove the final threads on the oil plug, this leaves you free to aim the catch bucket as well as keep your hand out of the firing line, I always start with engine up to operating temp so the oil is hot and flows out best - if I’m doing my own I then puncture the filter and allow the whole thing to drip out overnight and complete the oil change the next day.
An honest mechanic gets good tips where as a dishonest mechanic gives all of us a bad reputation…I’ve been a mechanic for over 24yrs . Good job 👍
Many mechanics are felons or drug users who can't pass a urine test or background check - so how honest are they ?
@@jwarmstrong just the ones that apparently you go to…
@@jwarmstrong Judging from this comment I'm assuming you couldn't pass a urine test either.
@@thatbostondude5660 That, and he probably drives a piece of shit car that never gets maintenance.
So he only goes to a garage when its already broken beyond (normal) repair (costs) and the big fat repair bill is the mechanics fault and not his.
@@jwarmstrong Where did you get your data from? Your buddies that are felons and drug users like you?
I'm glad to see that you, "the professional", have the same issues I have when it comes to changing the oil without making a mess.
Transmission fluid changes are so much worse lol.
@@scottjackson1636 Most vehicles they are super easy. Haven’t really ran into any of them being difficult. Now if you talking removing the trans then the 09’ Ford Edge takes the cake. Those are absolutely horrible to install.
Lol noobs. Use a punch on the bottom of the filter and let it drain then remove
Great job and professional teaching!!
Thank you for the tip, I did not know not to prefill the oil filter!
Fun fact. I’m a heavy duty mechanic, who now works on locomotive engines. The first time ever I saw a manufacturer instruct in a maintenance manual to prefill an oil filter was the turbocharger lube filter on an EMD engine. Because despite the fact the turbo is a precisely machined component that rotates up to 20,000 rpm, they are more worried about it spinning for a couple seconds with no oil then dirty oil.
Luckily I don’t have to buy an $73,000 turbo if it blows up so I just follow the book
Always follow manufacturers recommended and your ass is covered.
to be fair, that turbo running a few seconds at 20,000 rpm without oil is likely to do more damage than the small-ish risk that prefilling contains
@@DrRussian not really all the components are still coated in oil there’s still plenty of oil there it only gets dangerous when you run it for a long period without any oil, an engine can safely run for about 5 minutes without oil (unless it’s new and has never had any oil) it’s only a problem when you run it for a longer then a couple of minutes and all the oil runs off the parts
@@DrRussian plus the tiniest piece of metal (ex: something smaller then the thickness of tinfoil in width and length can make a bearing stick, and seize the whole engine)
My Deere engines say to pull the injection pump fuse and crank for 10 seconds to lube the turbo and fill the filters.
Being the type of person who when the check engine light comes on, pops the hood and stares at the engine thinking "yep, that is indeed an engine." I would like to thank you, for teaching me something new.
LOL!
A friend of mine drives a Volvo truck, one day he got a light on the dash that said warn engine... So he gets out, lifts the hood, points at the engine in a menacing manner and says "listen here engine, I am warning you! this better be the last time i have to warn you!"
Ray, a little tip to lessen the mess when removing the filter. With a sharp object, like an awl or phillils screw driver, poke a hole in the bottom of the filter when you start draining the oil to let most of the oil drain off before you break it loose from the engine.
Another tip. Before putting a hole in it, make sure you can loosen the filter from the housing first. 😉
@@philliphunt5348 Good point, I was surprised how easily the metal will rip if there is a hole in the side
@@ProudDad1976 I had a good teacher when i was an apprentice. He always said look for what could cause a problem and do that first so you don't get caught out.
@@philliphunt5348 Duh
No... you will damage the oil filter housing thing that sticks out. Its called a oil filter funnel
I didn’t know that about pre filling the filter, but it makes absolute sense .
First day back of work "deal with his irate customer" and they make you crawl around on the floor? Do you leave and the place falls apart? Glad you're feeling better and back to work Ray. 👍
Honestly I feel like I learned something because I was taught by my stepdad who was a really good mechanic and that's just what I've always been doing all these years but I absolutely agree with you. but I didn't know which side was the clean side so it makes perfect sense I'm going to do it your way from now on thanks I learned something today!
Great video as always Ray @Rainman Ray's Repairs
On the subject of contaminants I remember my first ever proper job in a service workshop (London Transport bus depot) The interviewing manager asked me how I would avoid cross contamination in a workshop environment. I explained that having a drain way onto which you put the oil fillers to drain between jobs was a good start. Changing the oil fillers and funnels from grotty easy to damage plastic to stainless steel was another good thing.
I got the job
Welcome back Ray. Good to see you've overcome the virus.
The one thing I've always learned from these videos Above All Else is that Ray has the patience of a saint!🙏🍻👍🧰👋
You just don't see him Scranton his frustrations in the bathroom .
Screaming , not scranton
Been changing oil for my cars cars for 40 plus years and never heard about pre-filling the filters so I'm on your side Ray!
They used to say only diesel oil filters need to be done that way where I’m from. I’ve worked in a few shops over the years and they’re all finally getting away from doing it. I never do it. One reason why is what ray explained and 2 it can cause a huge mess. If you slip and drop that filter there goes a quart of oil everywhere.
Thank you. I understand exactly what you mean. I will never prefill a filter again. Doing it for years, but hey , new knowledge is what I like.
Thanks for the info on not refilling the new filter before installing it. It will save me time and energy the next time I change the oil and the filter. I had always filled the filter about half-way, but didn't know any better. BTW, a micron is only 1/1,000 of a millimeter. A millimeter is about the thickness of a U.S. dime ) a ten-cent piece).
Glad you're back, and actually like the explanation of not prefilling the filter. I've done my oil changes on my truck for YEARSSSS and always prefill but your explanation makes perfect sense.
I'd contemplated pre-filling in the past but I was always afraid that even that little extra oil would drown the system so I never did it. Plus with my luck I would have dropped the filter and spilled it all over myself. And for cars that have filters that face to the side, it makes less sense to do so.
@@markredf150
It's not extra oil. Whatever goes into the filter should be subtracted from the total capacity. That only makes sense.
However, better not to prefill per the reason given in this video, unless you can avoid filling into the center hole. Good luck with that.
Still guna prefill
It doesn’t make sense! He’s worried about “contamination” from the oil being poured into the filter. But the oil filter could be “contaminated” from the factory, whatever contamination means to him. Not to mention the oil you pour in the engine is going into the filter anyway, so why be concerned?
If you critically think about what he said it makes no sense and just sounds like an excuse to do less work.
@@Puggy42069 Well if the manufacturer says not to do it, then I think you should follow that recommendation
Welcome back!! Glad you're feeling better! I know next to nothing about mechanicals but you're so entertaining! Keep it up!
Thank you for convincing everybody else that I'm right. Re-prefilling that oil filter will probably cause more damage than if I go in with a unfilled filter. The purpose of the filter is to clean the contaminants not to fill up with fresh oil and the contaminants can't come out. Thank you again for pointing that out.
Ray thanks you have totally changed my mind about pre filling the filter not gunna do it anymore thanks Ray
I love how remote they put the dipstick access. Makes checking oil suuuuper easy.
Learned my oil filter gasket lesson on my first change years ago. Oil started dripping after startup. The gasket had come off the old filter and I didn't notice. Lesson learned.
Same on my wifes car. Blew oil EVERY where. Took me two days to clean it all off.
@Albo alt That is what my dad taught me. I always wipe off the mating/gasket/machined surface and put NEW/FRESH oil on the filter gasket/seal before installing an oil filter.
I think that has happened to a lot of us. Not so common (or is it?) is forgetting to replace the drain plug....it has happened to me twice in my 30 years of turning nuts. Nice mess to clean up.
Thanks for the lesson on not prefilled the oil filter great video
Never thought about filling the oil filter before thx for the info
I really enjoy you sharing your thinking while you assess these situations you encounter. 👍
I love how you present your arguments objectively. I've never prefilled filters. Never even knew it was a thing but your explanation of the filters order of functions makes perfect sense.
A very good explanation of why to not pre fill oil filters
I've been driving now for 42 yrs and I have never pre-filled an oil filter, it's nice to know about the contamination side of it & that I was right for all these yrs. Excellent videos by the way, keep them coming, oh no gravity
My dad a Mechanic for many years never prefilled filters, so i never did either. I just never knew why.
He's shopping around to find out who will pay him for it, he probably fucked it up himself. Why else would he come to you when you when you last touched the truck over a year ago before taking it back to the dealership where they attempted a repair for an oil leak a couple of months ago?
I highly doubt that the truck owner had it serviced at a dealer. Most dealers would install/use dealer products AND would install a proper oil pan gasket; dealers would not install CarQuest filters and use RTV sealant.
I think the truck owner did the pan and filter himself and was , indeed, trying to pin the blame on THIS repair shop.
@@ddocspeck on those trucks, the lower oil pan does not have an actual gasket. Most modern oil pans (at least on ford vehicles) use high temp RTV for the seal, as most of the smaller vehicles have plastic pans that scratch easily, and the silicone fills those imperfections. And as for a source, I am a ford tech, so it’s straight from the ford PTS/OASIS shop manual
@@ddocspeck plus, a lot of dealers service more than just one brand, and rather than putting say a mopar/acdelco filter on a ford vehicle, they buy generic, cheap filters to cover everything and not stir the pot. My dealer used to do this and would buy FVP filters, but have changed their attitude and now preach “a ____ dealership servicing a ____ vehicle should use a factory brand filter”
Assumptions cansure make a smart guys look silly. The issue with the second oil filter seal was real and the company shouldn’t have charged any fees for the oil change.
@@Mapster2001 Yep, my KIA dealer told me Kia would likely reject any engine warrenty claim if it didn't have a Kia oil filter on it.
REEEEEE! Welcome back Ray. It is good hearing your explanations.
Back in the day I changed the oil in my 69 Mustang Convertible, didn't notice the old oil filter gasket didn't come with the old filter, spun on the new filter with new gasket. Feeling content, lowered the top, back out of the driveway, and laid down an oil streak on the driveway and street in front of the house. Ugggghhh. What a mess. Lesson learned. If you are a DIY, double check the gasket came off w the old filter. Great that you emphasize that Ray, words to heed.
Thank you for showing people like me
I'm learning a lot from you
Over the 45 years of changing my own oil I prefilled twice however I did learn something from your video Ray. Great content man.
10:38 that happened to a friend on a brand new Denali back when we used to work for Goodyear. Luckily the customer noticed the smell and she returned right away before any damage happened to the engine. He got a whole speech from the manager but he didn’t get fired tho. Lady was pretty understanding and cool about it
These Vids are great... love watching them... entertaining. Pre oil vs no pre oil. I agree with you... stay the course of science. I have more issues with WHO works on my cars since that seems to be the most obvious point of entry for post-repair problems. E.g. I bought a used 2012 Chevy Cruze with a swapped out engine (44K mi engine on a 140k mi car), the shop didn't even swap out the plugs or the coil pack, had hesitation in anything below 2k RPMs. Watching these videos has made me look into doing simple maintenance/minor issues myself even though I do not have a driveway nor a garage to do any work properly. I bought an OEM Coil pack and the OEM recommended Iridium plugs and did the repair myself-took all of 20 minutes. I also, in the past, swapped out the turbo oil feed line (trying to preserve that Turbo as loooong as possible since it probably is bolted on from the old 144k engine as well, and the negative battery cable (bad crimps from the factory). Anyhoo... keep em coming... I hope it's worth all the hours of filming and editing at the end of the day.
Never too old to learn something. Thanks.
I always pre fill my pollen filter before I fit it so it has air already inside it to lubricate the climate control system instead of having it run dry with no air for a few seconds. I’ve never had an issue with premature vent wear by doing it this way.
Same. It will still filter out cuz it fills up no matter what you do pre fill or not it does the same thing its intended for
I bet your wife doesn't agree on that last part.
@@Nic7320 neither does your wife.
Ray: thanks man for your videos! My dad showed me how to fix a few things growing up, but I really learned trying to make it through college with a 98 XJ, a Haynes book, youtube, and a craftsman socket set. Now I can't let go of the jeep and I work on it for fun. I really like the "detective work" you do. Reminds me of my job as a nurse when patients tell you one thing, another nurse tells you something else, but when you walk in the room, you see something different than either has told you. Love the mysteries and seeing the things you notice. Keep it up
Another XJ owner here. Got a 90 2dr and a 98 4dr
Agreed, it makes perfect sense to me to follow a "Best Practice" suggestion...
It's good to hear you got over covid, I had it back in November 2021 & I spent six weeks in ICU followed by six weeks of oxygen.
I’m so glad your back...Gotta love diesels, that oil didn’t have 30 seconds of run time and was already black lol
I'm also glad his back ;-) I think we all mean we're glad you're back.
I have a 1 micron bypass oil filter and the oil still turns black. Oil samples are our friend with Diesel engines.
@@clintonkirker5154 you dont have a hour meter?
@@Francois_Dupont technically yes, but most otr diesel operators don’t plan oil changes based on hours. I change my oil every 40,000-60,000 miles depending on my average mpg, outside temperature, terrain I’ve driven and oil sampling.
Glad to see you're doing well enough to be back at work, Ray. I hope your wife and kids are doing well too. ❤
You know, I learned something today. I didn't think about the part that screws into the filter adapter as being the clean side. I've always pre-filled mine, but I won't anymore. I can definitely appreciate the measurement metrics, coming from a QA background. 🙂
Wow - I am now a believer! Many thanks.
I've had customers just like this gentleman. Has certain things done at certain places, and sometimes mix or overlap repairs/services. Most of them when they realize what's really going on will react just like this 1. Definitely a customer to give some extra attention from here on out. Good on you for staying collected, and eliminating your emotions.
Thanks Ray for educating me and others on the proper way to change oil. I've been changing oil for years and always filled the filter but didn't know that could cause damage. Thanks again.
I've also pre filled filters, but always from a sealed bottle. Not bucket brigade from a bulk tank with a dirty container.
Thanks for the prefill advice was not aware
I guess the rationale for pre-filling oil filters is to make sure the bearings get oil more quickly from the oil journals, but there is always some residual oil there anyway, unless you drain the oil for weeks or something. Also with some vehicles like Ford ranger, you will lose the priming on the oil pump if you don't refill within about 10 minutes.
I think Ray's ideas make more sense. That is what the oil filter is there for anyway, to make sure the oil does not circulate contaminated.
Nice video, clear explanation of what you're doing exactly. I learn a lot from your lessons. Alas I'm not anymore in the situation that I can do anything with it. Too old and too tired. But it''s fun to see you at work, being smarter than everybody else. Almost I think. Good luck, greetings from Amsterdam, The Netherlands.
You've got a way of making even an oil change entertaining. I loved the remark about why prefilling on the clean side may be a mistake. I think the critical thing is to do the change when engine is warm, so that oil is already coating those bearings when first started after the change. That way, there is no starvation for oil in the vulnerable few seconds when air is cleared from the filter.
Oil will always coat the parts regardless hot or cold.
@@jasonsong86 Right? Are you cold starting after it has sat for 26 years or something?? Lol
I think people seriously under estimate how fast modern day engines build oil pressure. Yes, on a completely cold engine that's been sitting for multiple days there may not be oil in a particular spot, but it only takes 2-3 seconds for oil pressure to build and oil to get to those spots. Going that 2-3 seconds without oil is not going to damage the engine in any significant way. There will always be some amount of oil coating engine components. It would takes months for every drop of oil to drain down into the pan and leave a completely dry engine.
He didn’t say it may be a mistake, he gave you reasons why you shouldn’t do it and pointed out exactly why it is a mistake to pre fill, there is always going to be one who tries to argue regardless.
I have never in 50yrs. pre-filled an oil filter during a oil change. I agree whole heartedly with you