Tesla Supercharging For Other EVs Isn't Perfect Yet - Here's Why
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ค. 2024
- As Ford and ensuing brands gain Tesla Supercharger Accesws through a charging adapter this summer, Max explains how there's still inter-operability and logistical challenges to solve with the network "opening" up.
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0:00 Welcome
1:27 What Makes Teslas So Easy
2:46 Port Placement
4:50 Software and Integration
6:28 Best Non-Teslas To Supercharge
7:52 High-Voltage
10:03 Older EVs
11:36 Payment Experience
13:37 Wrap-Up
#tesla #supercharging #nacs - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
As an Ioniq 5 owner, I’m hoping that the Supercharger network access and the upcoming IONNA network will take pressure off of EA and EVgo stations, making them less crowded and hopefully allowing EA or catch up on maintenance, making for a better charging experience for everyone. Fingers crossed. 🤞
It should be noted, EA has gotten a lot better
Love how Tesla designed its stations incorrectly from the start with cables that are too sort, yet now we blame charge port locations as the problem.
Gas stations solved that problem a century ago. Come on.
it saved money/cable cooling. But yeah it is solvable for sure.
It wasn’t incorrect. It was a single ecosystem designed from the ground up to support its own products. It wasn’t meant to support all the other failed products that nobody wants to buy because you can’t charge them anywhere until now.
@@pg6557 The very fact that it was a designed as a single ecosystem has been a massive mistake on Tesla's part. A single ecosystem designed to deliver electricity to cars? Incredibly dumb idea, wasted opportunity. Tesla should have deployed a charging network designed around all EVs, modeled after gas stations.
Europe forced Tesla to follow a standard, and that single law gave europeans a big headstart to establish a real EV ecosystem, with multiple energy providers and multiple carmakers that interact and compete on their own merits, not a friggin connector.
@@francoistrudeau8955 Eh. You're overstating the problem here. There are actual physical drawbacks to a longer cord, for example. If we're talking about standardization, then the problem obviously isn't "one connector" per se. Other manufacturers intentionally eschewed Tesla's "standard" in the US and abroad, when they could have designed for a universal ecosystem from the start. Is this better or worse? Yes. Always pros and cons. In this case, the strength of Tesla's investment into its network in the US is what has made competing energy providers fail on their own merits - which has then forced multiple carmakers to adopt Tesla's standard. Far from slowing down a headstart, this practically means that everyone now has to compete directly with the reliability and quality of Tesla's charging infrastructure. There are probably more pros than cons here.
Nothing is black and white. There was ALWAYS going to be disruption and quick iteration everywhere in the world as the technology improved and was implemented. I'm just glad it's improving.
It is a stretch to call short cables an "incorrect design." Shorter cables are lighter and much easier to handle. They also cost less. IMO Tesla's V3 superchargers are designed better than V4, since the cables are lighter and shorter, therefore much easier to use.
Just made trip south on I-95 from Virginia to Florida. Excluding Florida, the supercharger locations have 75% spare spaces to charge. Florida is much busier, with only 10-20% spare (or waiting for a spare). So, there is capacity for Ford to charge on a trip.
Spare “spaces” on EA does not mean available chargers in these spaces. EA has notoriously bad availability of “chargers”.
Tesla Supercharger only.
For E-GMP, Tesla Superchargers will be useful as reliable backup to the non-Tesla CPOs.
I cannot keep saying it enough. I can't understand why these EV TH-camrs and influencers can't get it. You DON'T have to take two spots if all non-Teslas take the stall to their left and park next to each other. And Teslas do the opposite starting from the other side of the site. In this fashion, only 1 stall in lost for the whole site even if the rest are full.
Do they even talk to Kyle? He has seen it done just like I have.
Yes and no. If the station is nearly full (one or two spots open) you may not have a choice as to which stall to park in to charge. Example, you roll up in your Tesla and the stalls are (left to right) "Tesla, Tesla, Tesla, , Empty, Ford, Ford, (Empty), Empty." You only have the "Non Tesla" spots available...you are taking one of those.
@@joeybagadonuts1206 Correct. That's what I said 1 spot will be lost. In your scenario, then unfortunately a second stall will be lost, but the Tesla can take the next one down the line if others besides the spot taken by the last Ford were free to the right of it. But losing 2 spots in all is great when compared to all non-Teslas taking up 2 spots everywhere.
It's going to take some learning and some cooperation. That's why it's so important for TH-cam influencers to show as many videos as they can on how to park so everyone can learn the proper etiquette.
None Teslas are going to have to learn to start from one end and Teslas from the other.
Thanks, Ryan and Max.
Very well done.
I'm sure Tesla knows what type of vehicle is charging in what stall and so if for example a Ford Lightning is charging they can verify the stall next to it may not be available for a Tesla vehicle but would be available for another CCS vehicle. They would note that information in the app so you could be aware of the situation and alter your choice if necessary.
The problem is, even if the Tesla backend knows a Lightning is charging, it doesn't know how the Lightning is parked, and which spaces it's taking up.
The only reliable way to tell exactly what's available that I can think is AI interpreting real-time camera footage of charging sites. This would also have a nice advantage of sending an immediate alert anytime an ICE vehicle decides to block a charger, allowing Tesla to immediately call for the tow truck.
@@ab-tf5flWith the exception of V4 dispensers or pull through bays the Lightning as an example can only work one way but I get your concern. I do like the idea of being able to identify ICErs and other BEV's that are not or overstay their welcome. Cameras would offer security in general but I think would be cost prohibitive.
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Great job describing a complex topic. I was hoping for a specific mention of BMW EV's. I have no doubts about newer models, but what about older i3 models? Thanks
So ... why not supply a NACS adapter to F150 Lightning owners that includes a built-in 4-ft extension cable?
Seems like a good idea but I don’t think it is that simple . The cables have liquid cooling in them and I think it would be hard to add that to an extension cable.
Excellent idea!
You know, the most in-your-face solution would be for the Tesla superchargers to just replace the adversely short cables with longer ones.
14:19 Yet the overreaching attitude of many Tesla owners, *especially the ones who do not want non-Teslas at **_their_** chargers* is that Tesla is the only car maker that can save the world and you should forget about competition.
There is a lot of optimism regarding the Tesla network opening up but rollout is going to be slow. I am a Ford Lightning owner with adapter reserved 3/1 (day 1) and my estimated date is Aug 2024 to receive my adapter. These are not shipping in meaningful quantities within "a few weeks".
Wow! August 2024.
Driver side charging port is not ideal for curbside charging, so we can't suggest Tesla rear drivers side charging port is somehow perfect
Why not? Less risk for passing morons destroying your car if the port is out in the street. And best position in small and narrow garages and parking spaces.
So, the best position is one that forces you to back into a spot? Seems to me the best position is one in the front of the vehicle.
@@owenjohnson5030 snow and dirt get accumulated in the front
It is perfect. You back into the charging spot, plug in, and charge. When done charging, disconnect, and drive forward with clear visibility. Most parking lot accidents happen with backing up. I've had Nissan Leafs, a Fiat 500e, and Teslas. I'm speaking from REAL WORLD experience, not just supposition or speculation.
@@owenjohnson5030So you don't have ANY experience charging an EV, correct?
The number one problem with the charging stations “Tesla included” is the layout implementation. All these service providers should go to a Costco drive through gas pumps station. The layout is 4 gas pump in line with access on both sides. They use as many of those layout as necessary by adding parallel set-up. People can wait in queue easily and fill the empty pump spot when free. 5 parallel isles used on both sides can service 40 users at a time… the trafic is one way; as of now the electric distribution went on panic mode to respond with the least investment because of the $$$ investment required for the required space. Imagine if tomorrow all North American Gas Pump Stations would be using the same set-up as all those electricity providers…. you would see the chaos of a life time. 😮
Most people have a hard time backing their car; even worse when accessing nose first…
Providers will have to take a good look at what the oil producers have been doing in the last 100 years and pick the best setup for the future.
Also, with isles setup, you use the side that fits your electric port.
There's a practical difference in that at Costco, everyone's car is going to take less than 3 minutes. So if you wait in line, it's not a big deal. With EVs, you may be waiting for 5 minutes or 35 - or maybe an hour because someone walked off. I'm sure they COULD do a parallel aisle setup just fine, it's probably more about the current linear setup requiring less land and fewer branching wires - making it much easier to plug and play into many different sites. Anywhere you can fit several parking spaces in a double row, you can shoehorn in a supercharger setup. That's not true with a parallel gas station, where typically, a lot of space is empty and unused.
I think if you game theory this out, you'll see that there are some significant inefficiencies that might make a change counterproductive. Perhaps. Realistically, I think the simple solution is that as Superchargers get upgraded, we'll see longer cables get integrated. It's less efficient and maybe might cause more wear, but probably not so much so that it's not feasible. It just has to be long enough to reach both sides of a car because the driver can always back in (it's not that hard) or drive forward as their car requires. So... like.. an extra foot? Not TOO much. Especially if people learn to park between spots.
Why can’t CCS1 cars park just off center of the parking line and charge that way? If they just repainted the parking space lines then CCS1 cars could use just one spot. I don’t get why Tesla said not to do this?
It'll block other spots still because then Tesla cars have to park oddly, and may not be able to reach the cord safely. The only real workaround to this is to have a supercharger stall that has parking on either side, or is a pull through.
V4 theoretically eliminates this, but that's a future thing as they haven't been rolling them out very fast yet.
@@Geckogold I tested it and the Tesla vehicles can still charge when parking directly over the line. It does in fact work.
Tesla sites should be smart enough to know whether adjacent stalls are blocked based on the type of car that’s plugged into a given dispenser. And then mark the blocked stalls as in use in the real time database.
Why can't they make an adapter with a 2-foot pigtail, where it could reach either side without blocking a space🎉. The ideal location for the charger is similar to the Kona, Leaf or Niro(front and center).
It is a lousy placement if you have winter weather.
The cables are liquid cooled to allow hundreds of amps. Not possible in an adapter.
I don't understand why EA doesn't use simple RFID cards like ChargePoint does. I keep my ChargePoint card in my wallet and just tap it on a ChargePoint card reader to start charging immediately ... works really well and reliably without any need to resort to a phone app. I am one of those who does not want to ever use a phone app to charge, and I haven't done so yet. And I note that I do have cellphone-signal problems on my cellphone in many parts of the US where I drive, so a phone app would not work for me in such cases anyway.
You should note that CCS charging-port stations will be around a long, long time -- likely for at least a decade into the future. That's because all the many non-Teslas (except early Nissans) sold in the US over the past decade have CCS ports, and the production of NACS ports in non-Teslas will only begin to come in next year (with perhaps several years more for VW Group). Add this to the fact that the US federal government infrastructure monies for charging stations is now allowing for NACS, but for NACS *and* CCS (mandating BOTH because of the many CCS cars out there already), and you'll see that CCS isn't going away anytime soon; CCS charging stations will probably be much more plentiful by 2035 and 2040 than Chademo charging stations are today.
If/when Tesla owners start having frequent/extended waits at Supercharging centers because of non-Teslas charging there, much of the argument for buying Teslas will go out the window. Tesla's BEV-market share in the US is already down to something like 60%, and it's going to continue to sink over the coming years to perhaps 10-20% of the BEV-market share by 2030, as other automakers continue to put out better-looking (inside and out) BEVs in competitive MSRP and competitive charging speeds and ranges (and as Musk continues to alienate so many potential buyers through his politics and antics).
I don't imagine the manufacturers will move the port location (at least not in many models). North America isn't the only market - worldwide tesla does not have a majority of charging locations and has started to adapt its stations for longer cables in the v4.
In Europe where the tesla chargers have been opened up for a while what normally happens is that teslas fill up stations from one side and non teslas (cars with ports in a different spot) from the other to reduce the number of locations that go unused.
At Tesla charging stations sometimes the chargers are in the middle of the parking spot where a Lightning could use the charger to it's left but then the thing to check out is if a Tesla could park in the left spot and use the charger to it's right in front of the Lightning.
I don't think V2 or V3 cables are long enough to do that.
@@georgepelton5645 V2 Superchargers are irrelevant because Non-Tesla's don't have the communications hardware to charge at them. Until someone shows that this can't be done at several V3 chargers then I'm still holding out hope.
I can't wait. Our road trips currently aren't that bad in the EV6. The biggest issue I run in to is slow chargers. It's pretty common for me to roll up to a DC charger and have it top out at 80 or so kWh. So having a reliable charger at 100 kWh is still going to be a game changer for me. Plus, I bet the EV6 still chargers faster than a Mach-e at a supercharger haha. The Mach-e curve just isn't that great. Whereas I bet the EV6 will hold 100 (or 96 or whatever it does at a supercharger) kWh all the way to 80%.
EV6 is 800 V, so it will be limited at superchargers to its capacity to boost 400 V to 800 V and not able to charge at its maximum rate.
@@georgepelton5645I charged an EV6 at a Tesla charger one time and topped out at 130kW. It's ok, but when you get a sweet 230kW charger, it's a good bit faster. Looking forward to less crowded 800V chargers.
I think you’re correct, an EGMP car should charge 10-80% in 32 minutes at a supercharger, which I believe is faster than a Mach-e. Because of the great charge curve they are still among the faster charging cars even with one hand tied behind their backs.
At 3:20 you make it sound like fords fault that Tesla has short cables and didn’t design their chargers to support anything but their own cars. It sure as hell not Ford’s fault that their cars are going to take up two spots at the Tesla charger. That’s in Tesla for how they lay out the charging stations, and the length of the cables.
Even with the charging port in the right spot or using a v4 SC and 400V architecture and software stack there will be issues with interoperability as other chargepoint operators have currently. Tesla just hasn't had this experience well not in the US but in the rest of the world with CCS2 which Tesla uses as well as other providers in those markets.
Hilarious that Tesla owners are upset that other EVs are getting to use the superchargers when Teslas have been using the J-1772 lvl 2 chargers as well as taking up stalls at Electrify America stations for the past few years.
I've never been to a charging station with a queue. Even at EA on I95. No queues.
So maybe Ioniqs should have used teslas method. My tesla starts at 250kw when around 20% and the battery preconditioned. Keep in mind, Tesla has 10 years experience charging and know the best charging curves to provide speed and battery longevity.
The Ioniq 5 and 6 have a high voltage battery design and are more future-facing designs. Tesla’s infrastructure wasn’t made with that in mind and uses high current on their vehicles to get around their lower voltage. It’s ultimately on Tesla to catch up and they will with proper V4 Supercharger hardware. The reason Ioniq charge slower now is due to having to use their rear motor inverter to step up the voltage from the charger so the vehicle can accept a charge - and that speed is limited to around 100 kW
Shock of the century
Tesla owners concerned about CCS vehicles hogging Tesla charging station don’t seem overly concerned about using their adapters at CCS stations. Do I see a double standard at play?
Why is it so hard to get CARD READERS right? How ridiculous is that?
Did Elon write the script for this video himself?
Words matter. Non-Tesla vehicles don't have their port in the "wrong" location, just a different location. Tesla is welcoming these vehicles to its stations, so it's up to Tesla to provide adequate facilities. Which is easier: Tesla providing longer cables or better positioning of its pedestals, or vehicles getting their port locations changed? Calling them the "wrong" locations reinforces the entitlement that Tesla drivers may feel over "their" chargers. Except that they don't own Superchargers, Tesla does, and Tesla is now selling charging to these vehicles, so the entitled mindset needs to be discouraged.
Of course, we have to deal with the reality of the situation and a reminder to everyone that it's going to be a challenge to make everything work smoothly and to make the best of the situations that aren't remedied for a while. The Tesla community can show what it's made of by how it responds: will people embrace the new situation or will it behave badly? How will the community respond to those who do behave badly? Every Tesla owner is going to judged as a group, so it's a good idea to build an atmosphere of inclusion rather than entitled "get away from *my* charger" attitudes.
I hope the Tesla community rises to the challenge!
Why do other automakers make "deals" with Tesla? Can't they just make their EVs with NACS chargers since it's open standard?
NACS is a standard. Supercharging is not and requires authorization from Tesla. It's their network.
Tesla made a charging network. Other automakers did not.
The Tesla charger will only charge a car if the Tesla software directs it to. (This is true of all chargers.)
Are we expecting independent charge providers like Electrify America to use NACS connectors soon? I assume they won't need agreements with Tesla.
@@FameyFamousJ3400 is an open standard and the SAE is its administrator, not Tesla, so J3400
Can be used by anyone on a car or charger. EA has announced J3400 connectors are coming soon, as has Chargepoint.
You know, based on the title, I didn’t expect this to turn into an advertisement for Tesla on the basis that their chargers don’t work as well with other brands..
For ICE vehicles, the EPA is very strict-conservative on mileage claims. How can EV's not meet mileage claims, not only initially but throughout the life of the vehicle? What is going on?
It not that the epa is less strict to electric cars, it is the way the test is done favors electric cars. peak driving Efficiency is around 55 mph for gas cars and 30 for electric cars.
People hyper-mile driving 30mph no climate control in Telsa model y/3 and get 500+ miles of range. So when epa requires a combination of city and slow freeway driving to get measurements or a computer calculation of this, it significantly favors electric cars over gas.
If you did city driving only you would notice the gas cars range is significantly under what they say and electric car is farther.
I had to watch this twice because the first time though I so distracted by how great that Subaru Solterra in the back ground looked. What a beautiful car.
if you bought a Tesla you ,would not make a fool of your self
It's almost like chargers other than Tesla purposefully made it difficult. WHY would you need app and your phone or a credit card? All you need is an account and plug in your car. Every car talks to the charger with data as it charges, why can't it charge the account tied to the VIN (or other ID) of the car which is pulled over the data connection???? So dumb.
Really the best solution for fast charger payment is swipe credit card, plug in. Just like gas pumps. Having to setup something in any app is not ideal for fast charging, which for most people will be used very infrequently. Imagine needing a separate app to get gas at Mobil, vs Shell, vs Chevron.
@@Calibr21I don't need loads of apps, just one account with one card in my Tesla app, that's the point!
No cards, no apps, I don't even need my wallet or phone and I can charge at a supercharger.
Tesla snubs. Ahhhh
EV owners don't need Tesla charger stations, but it can't hurt to have them available. The more the better. The Ford Blue Oval network is now compatible with Tesla's, so now everything is "plug & charge" for Ford owners. That being said, until charging becomes widely available, people will continue to shy away from buying EV's., including Tesla's
I can't wait to to take up two stalls, not precondition my battery, and charge up to a 100%. *Daddy Elon sad face* T_T Hummer EV ftw!
🤣🤣😂😂Hummer EV is next up at the plate.
Moral of the story is, get rid of the competitor and buy a Tesla.
Elon will love that... after you buy, he will lower the price by 50 percent
All Tesla need do is actually make a vehicle that meets more people’s vehicle desires. The model X fails with its interior design.
Yes let's encourage monopolies. Smh.
What an insane take.
Not everyone wants a tablet on wheels.
Sweetie
Ryan needs to go see Coleton @OutofSpecDetailing :) I still feel like Tesla owners have an advantage in SuC pricing and convenience. Great video guys.