How Tears of the Kingdom is Different in Japanese
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
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I finally tried to deploy some of my knowledge and study habits I've developed from the past 2+ years and made a Random Facts-styled video regarding differences between the Japanese version of a game, and the version most of us are familiar with. Starting with Tears of the Kingdom!
If people like this even a little bit, I think I'd absolutely love to dedicate time to it as a series, since it's right up my alley, being both Zelda-related and Japanese-related. I also figure that there's really... no one else making this type of content out there, so I hope there's enough interesting in this type of thing!
Let me know all of your thoughts about this sorta thing, and any questions you may have! It's a bit weird this time around, since with the inherent barrier of knowledge for this kinda topic, people may have less "submissions" to give me, but I'm absolutely able to carry content submissions on my own. But, if you're experience in Japanese at all and have any questions, or frankly if you're just wondering about anything, or heard some rumors that you want fact checked, be my guest and leave those thoughts in the comments!
Thank you for watching, I hope you enjoy :)
Music used:
Inside the Pirate Ship (TLoZ: The Wind Waker): • Inside the Pirate Ship...
Beedle's Airshop (TLoZ: Skyward Sword): • Beedle's Airshop The L...
Faron Woods (TLoZ: Skyward Sword): • Faron Woods The Legend...
Island in the Sky (TLoZ: Skyward Sword): • Island in the Sky - Th...
Forest Haven (TLoZ: The Wind Waker): • The Legend of Zelda: T...
Kakariko Village (TLoZ: A Link Between Worlds): • Kakariko Village - The...
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Chapters:
00:00 Intro
03:02 GLOOM?!
07:36 Is That the Zonai?!
09:06 Is That the Korok?! (etc)
11:44 Regal Speak (not british)
15:01 Introduction to Japanese 101
15:55 The Working Class
18:28 They’re Grrrrreat!
19:44 Outro
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#zelda #tearsofthekingdom #nintendo #nintendoswitch - เกม
![How Do Species Names Work in Japanese? - Translation Tidbits [Tears of the Kingdom]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6S3FsDj0ZT4/mqdefault.jpg)
![How Do Species Names Work in Japanese? — Translation Tidbits [Tears of the Kingdom]](/img/tr.png)
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What's that tool you were using in the intro.
the thing with the regal speak is probably a less used form of japanese similar on how ones refers to someone in a superior position, in an inferior position or casual manner. there is probably that 4th regal addressing manner. which does not quiet exist in western languages. the best one could say is that english kings in the past spoke FRENCH and not a a bit english. But that's not quiet the same either.
HOWEVER
if you accept a quest in kakoriko village youa re tasked to record slate scattered all around the sky which are written in the ancient hylian, WHICH the researcher fully speaks out (written out in the text box but its not quiet ye olden english but a seemingly fictitious version of it)
Japanese uses Ku and Gu interchangeably. So Korogu is Korok, their page even says that it means Korok.
Gloom: the master is our friend
So on what solid gloom is, miasma is the best fitting term and the second would be resin, you see if polluted air stagnates long enough the rotten not air parts starts to weigh off and stick to things, so the only real issue is that the Japanese word indicates resin can and will form (looking at words for resinous pollution leads you back to bad air in most cases) and miasma is only gas that isn’t indicative of anything even if it can make resin. You asked so I thought I’d give my best answer. But yeah I’d say gloom isn’t a bad word for it because it IS just the gas, but since it’s so thick in some areas it makes puddles of resin, like all of the chasm entrances that would act as the only airflow between above and below ground, really wish people talked about how cool gloom actually is just as an in-game detail more.
Fun fact:
The German translation ACTUALLY translates the Gloom as Miasma.
Adding onto this:
- The Zonai are translated as “Sonau”, keeping the u. The Z was probably changed because in German, the Z is translated like the x in Axe, and “Xonau” would sound weird.
- I don’t remember Rauru or Ganondorf speaking in a “old” speech. The Rauru Statues at the End of the Shrines do kinda speak “old”.
Edit: I didn’t think I would have to add it here, but *yes* I made a mistake about the German Z, as it is more of a “ts” sound like in ra”ts”.
So there is no need to be rude about it and correct me, as you can see if you would scroll down.
I didn’t want to be rude by “stealing the credit” from the original reply (by @ChoiceSnarf) that corrected me, so please scroll down a little and like that reply.
Still doesn’t change my point that it sounds weird. It just sounds weird differently.
nuh uh
@@TurboPancake ?
French uses "miasmes", which is always at plural for grammatical reasons, but retains its "miasma" meaning.
Zonai are named Soneau, plural Soneaux, but pronounced like there is an extra a after the n.
@@farbencut :)
the main difference is that all the dialogue is Japanese
Who are you, who are so wise in the ways of science?
Really? I would have never expected such a big change!
Bro, your profile picture 💀
@@Cesar8725 lol
I wonder why
As a native Japanese speaker, I guarantee that there are no major mistakes in this video! If I had to say, though it is a major thing, the use of the word「はじまりの」 actually fits perfectly and does not spoil the mood.
If they had used「はじめの」 or「最初の」, it would have simply given the impression that it was a starting point for players, who are outside of the game world.
However, by precicely using the word 「はじまりの」 , Nintendo has added the information that it is the first place to arrive from Link's perspective (rather than the player's), and that it is also the origin of the Hyrule kingdom (after meeting the king).
For example, when we say「仏教はじまりの地」 it means almost the same thing as 「仏教発祥の地」(birthplace of Buddhism) which emphasizes the fact that this is the place where a certain religion and civilization began and it stands as the foundation. Not the place to start something from now, but the place something started from. The translation using "Great" focused on preserving the meaning of being the origin, center and foundation of the kingdom and the sky islands.
Plateau of Origin and Sky Island of origin would have been a better translation then. Idk what Nintendo of America is thinking but I don't feel their love for the game in their work.
@@dreamimgflowerd976 Personally, I like the word "Genesis" as suggested in the video, since it has that strong connotation of ancient origin the Japanese version seems to be going for.
The Fremch localization translated it to "Prelude Plateau." This means that this plateau is just what comes before the greater things happening in the rest of Hyrule. The Great Plateau just puts an emphasis on the facts that it is a plateau, and it is great in size and elevation, and the constructions surrounding it.
@Hannah Mills Genesis feels too Christian, and the game can not fit Christianity in it Asian and Japanese cultural world and story. Prelude sounds like the better way
@Dreamimgflower D if they are the origin of something, it would not be Link. I'm not far into the game because I take my time to mess around, and I've collected the 2 first memories in order, and in the second memory, Zelda seems to be on the Great Plateau. I don't know how much of a beginning it represents, but don't spoil me, I'll get to the chronological third one very soon.
As a language professor, I completely support the approach of playing games in other languages.
Familiar context makes new linguistic content easier to absorb.
Absolutely! The number one reason that the Dutch and Scandinavian people are the world's best non-native English speakers is because they consume a lot of American and British media and always use subtitles instead of voice overdubbing, preserving the original dialogue.
That is how I actually started to learn english! Playing Pokémon Red! I was like 10 yo and didn’t understand a thing but man I forced my way through playing with a translation book at my side 😂
I try to do this with Spanish because although I'm Mexican and my mom only speaks it, I suck at speaking it, but it doesn't help much because the problem isn't that I can't understand it, it's that I can't speak or write in it so I really rely on autocorrect when typing in Spanish.
I was preparing for my German AP test during the start of COVID lockdown, so our classes had all but stopped (they were online, only half as long, and optional). One of the ways I prepared was switching my Netflix account to German as default and watching hours and hours of Pokémon.
Fun fact: In Spanish, the Great Plateau is called "Meseta (plateau) de los Albores (of the beginnings)".
You can see they tried to retain the original meaning from the japanese, but I really like it because "albores" is a really poetic way of saying begginings and it can also mean dawn.
In TotK, the Great Sky Island is called "Gran Isla de los Albores", which means " Great Island of the Begginings", so I guess they decided to go with both Lol.
Also “Gloom” is translated to “Aura maligna” and that works better too
@@Carcosahead They did something similar with malice, calling it "Residuos de maldad", which means something like "evil waste". I feel like these are more like a description than an actual name. Personally, I like "malice" much better than "residuos de maldad", but I think "miasma" or the other japanese term work better than "gloom" or "aura maligna" (evil aura)
in german, both tutorial areas get the adjective "forgotten" rather than "great", which makes a bit more sense i think
@@stella_s Yeah, it does make sense since they're both places nobody has stepped in in a long time and both Rauru and Roham talk about them in a nostalgic way, like they're remembering them in their old glory
@isichinarro7903 I'm from Latin America. They should have gone with malicia. I think most youtubers calle it malicia. And Miasma sounds 100 times better imo.
My immediate thought for the name of “gloom” was about how it relates to its effects. The word “malice” is more aggressive and obvious, which matches how malice dealt damage at _double_ the rate, and also slowed you down. Gloom as a term is a lot more subtle, but can still be threatening, which lines up with how it’s biggest danger is a debuff that makes other situations more dangerous.
Agreed. While "Malice" is obviously evil, "Gloom" is depressing, which IMO brings out a more bleak view of the world. Spoilers below:
In Goron City, the Gorons eating the Marbled Rock Roast wasn't making them evil, just brainwashed and not working for the good side, fitting of its inclusion of Gloom rather than Malice.
I would argue the same applies to miasma which has connotations of slowly spreading disease and sickness.
Gloom also implies darkness and dreariness, emphasizing the gloomy dark depths of a cave, well or underground world
I still think gloom is better than miasma. Miasma sounds so outdated and really superstitious. Like astrology, alchemy, etc. I think most people think of Miasma as an outdated form of "germ", but with a gaseous feeling. Miasma also gives a feeling of disease/pathogen and not harm/injury/curse. What I'm mainly surprised about this vid is that he didn't know what Miasma was or its history with John Snow LMAO.
@CoolGuy it wasn't superstitious but a falsified scientific theory. It is common thing in science...
Nintendo's translator team for french is recognized to do an incredible job everytime, going as far as to introduce nouns with more meaning behind them than their japenese equivalent, and this video made me appreciate totk's translation even more, because all of what you said throughout your video is not an issue at all with the french translation (eg: gloom is actually called "miasmes", which is the translation for "miasma")
I think the "i" at the end of Zonai sounds better than the alternative because the "i" feels more like a way of making it plural in a formal way, like cacti or octopi.
I agree. The examples you gave gets at what it reminded me of: ancient Greek & Latin. I believe modern Greek still uses «αι» as a plural ending, but it is not pronounced like the “ai” in “Zonai.” However, one theory is that the «αι» ending in ancient Greek was pronounced like the “ai” in “Zonai” & even the corresponding ending in Latin, “ae” was pronounced this way, both used for plural, usually feminine words. Take, for example, English antenna & antennae.
In spanish, the gloom is called "Aura maligna", which if you translate it literally, it would be called "Evil aura". It sounds like an anime thing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Likewise you could also read it as "Malicious aura." For "evil aura" you could also instead use "aura malvada."
In this sense, Spanish retains the idea of Malice regarding Gloom, rather than using that or Miasma.
"Malicious aura" is straight to the point and doesn't try to shove third party western inventions into the game.
English localisers have a bad habit of "going the extra mile" to invent things they think is more cool, to compensate for their lack of creative input in the making of the game.
_"We don't like the game's name but that's okay, we will change them anyway. We know better than the game's creators"._
@@YounesLayachi Well, I'd take Gloom over Malicious Aura any day
Malicious aura isn't even a name it's a description
@@enderallygolem you know that gloom is a description too, right? Just like malice, right? Both are a description and a name, just like evil aura, did you even think here?
A name but not a description would basically be our names, like "Kiara" or "David", but even the majority of our names have meanings, like the ones I've just told you.
Gloom is basically saying darkness, or also something that is very sad or is in darkness, like a person that is gloomy, and malicious or evil aura you already know, an aura that is nocive, that is evil and as such it hurts and searches to do evil, in this sense I would say that the name "evil aura" or "malicious aura" makes a lot more of sense and is basically saying what it is, not like gloom
Gloom's stand power, Za Hando
And ganondorf has phantom Gannon stand name "Swavmente".
Not a localizer by any means, but maybe the changing of the endings of -u to -i in the names of the Zonai and Picori could be that English has some plural nouns that end in a single i, (eg, syllabus plural is syllabi), so they might be trying to invoke that.
Certainly a possibility. Cacti, octupi, syllabi, etc. Definitely sounds more natural in English to refer to a collective or a people.
@@ExaltedUriel The Romani people would probably be a better example for that. I think its Latin conjugation.
One detail that I haven’t seen people talking about is that they may have made it an “-i” because it also makes “zonaite” work.
Bien lo hubieran dejado como Miasma.
@@rockyboi1961 interesting thought, but that's definitely a fortunate coincidence because I'm sure the English name "Zonaite" has no reason to exist during BotW's development and playtime. Who knows, if Zonai was "Zonau" instead the mineral could've been named "Zonium" or similar.
Fun facts:
- In french, they followed the japanese version for gloom (Miasme)
- For the Zonai, only the writing is a bit similar, as they kept the -au (Soneau). But while "eau" is normaly pronounce like "o", it's pronounce "Sonao"
- Constructs are also called "Golems"
- They also followed the japanese version for the beginning areas' names: Great Plateau being Plateau of the Prelude ("Plateau du Prélude") and Great Sky Island being Sky Island of the Prelude ("Ile céleste du Prélude")
I don't really know much Japanese, but I believe Korean has something similar to keigo. there's many different levels of polite and formal speech in Korean, with the highest level being what you use to address royalty, (it's what you hear in historical Kdramas). There really isn't an English equivalent to these types of things, there is formal and informal English but it has more to do with written word and not so much how we speak, think of the language you would use to write an essay vs how you have conversation with your prof or your boss.
(Quickt tangent: What I believe you were referring to with "Archaic English" is actually Early Modern English, Old English might as well be an entirely different language it's so incomprehensible. Scholars aren't even sure what it sounded like and the alphabet looks more like a language of Middle Earth. But I digress.)
The reason you find the difference in speech patterns in the English localizations more subtle is because they are, (it being your native language could also be a factor!) that's just the nature of the English language. They could've written Rauru and Ganondorf's dialogue to more resemble Elizabethean English but I honestly think it would be a bit ridiculous, it would feel more like they belong in a Shakespeare play than in a video game.
I honestly think translators/localizers did a good job, Rauru and Ganondorf's speech is much more elegant and poetic than the average Hylian NPC, and its elevated even more by some top notch voice acting. It's honestly the best you can do when translating languages with very clear differences between formal and informal speech to language that doesn't.
Also, I do wish they had kept the term "Malice", it just packs way more of a punch than "Gloom".
Many languages have completely different registers for speaking to someone above you vs. below you or at your kevel in the social hierarchy. American English is kind of an outlier in that there isn't really specialized vocabulary or hard and fast rules outside of "don't be too blunt". A bit like how Japanese almost utterly lacks the concept of swearwords (except maybe _kuso_ ). Partly because in America (and elsewhere in the anglosphere albeit less so) social hierarchy is way less important and we try to see each other as equals.
In fact, I think the main thing about the difference, in English, is that there are some things one can do to sound formal in English -- avoiding vulgarity and slang, addressing people as "sir/madam" -- but informal speech differs significantly by dialect. Everyone can understand "good day, gentlemen", and that's how we do the most polite forms of speech. Meanwhile, there isn't just one informal dialect; you have "sup homies", "hey guys", "howdy yall" and so on, and it sounds really unnatural if the choice of dialect doesn't match the speaker. It's a little bit like conformity being formal. I don't envy people having to make the decisions about how to localize these things.
Regarding the Koroks, I've actually studied the Ainu language to a certain extent so I might be able to offer some clarification. Both the Koroks and Pikkori are based on the "Koropokkuru". This way of writing the name is actually a Japanese pronunciation of the actual Ainu name, which is "Korpokkur". It can be translated directly as "The people under the butterbur leaves".
kor = leaf/leaves of the butterbur plant
pok = underneath
kur = person/people
The butterbur plant itself is called "korkoni" which comes from kor (butterbur leaf), kor (another meaning of this word is "to have") and ni (tree), so the full name is "The tree that has butterbur leaves". It doesn't make much sense in English but it does in Ainu when you consider that the leaves have a separate name.
Anyway, the korpokkur are notoriously shy people (the closest approximation in the West might be like gnomes or elves?) that hide underneath the butterbur plants, which is why the Koroks are similarly shy and you have to hunt for them!
It is said that korpokkur sometimes appear to help Ainu, but various folktales say that they've mostly disappeared for various reasons. Some think that they were a real people that once lived side-by-side with the Ainu, and supposedly there's remnants of their presence scattered around today.
I never picked up on that, of course korogs are korpokku. I just thought it was a weird twisting of 'kokiri' which is a pun on a type of saw or whatever, because they're based visually on the sawing woodsmen in the third game.
interesting shit
Okay, good to know my hunch about the name being localized thanks to the Nippon colonizing the Ainu's homeland was correct.
The bit at the end about the Korpokkur disappearing reminds me of the Tuatha de Danann in Irish mythology- a race of magical beings who disappeared from the island when humans overtook it. Many are, in myth, still believed to exist and either help or hinder humans.
so does that mean by cutting out "pok" the new word would translate something like "plant people"?
Once we get into spoiler territory, I _legitimately_ want to know what the original word for "secret stone" was in Japanese, because it's the one bit of localization that I think just sounds dumb as heck in the English version.
That's definitely one of the weirder names, I remember everyone was calling them tears after the final trailer, but no they're called secret stones even though every character who uses one has it out in the open as a decoration
I refuse to call them Secret Stones. I always call them Tears of the Kingdom™ because they deserve it
In french, they're called Pierres Occultes, so like, occult stones. Kinda has a witchy aspect to it tbh? Weird
Sacred would’ve been much more fitting and calling them tears doesn’t feel right either.
Tears would been good if they look like tears instead of mitamas.
The German translation went into a whole different direction with the Great Plateau and Great Sky Island, calling them "Forgotten Plateau" and "Forgotten Sky Island" (Vergessenes Plateau and Vergessene Himmelsinsel). This is probably alluding to the fact that these places sat abandoned for a long time before Link woke up there.
The italian translation actually translates gloom as miasma, because it also exists in our language, but it's pronounced meeazma, and the zonai were translated with zonau, which I'm not really a fan of, but knowing that it wasn't changed for no reason makes it better, also the korok are korogus, I'm really starting to think that the whole time I'm gonna have to edit this comment because we didn't change any names, which is surprising to me cause I thought that the italian translation was made looking at the english version. I was right here I am with another edit, the great plateau is called "altopiano delle origini" and the great sky island is called "isola celeste delle origini" while the other words roughly mean the same things, the word "great" that would be translated with "grande" are replaced with "delle origini" which means "of origins", I am starting to appreciate the italian translation so much thanks to you
Funnily enough I believe both definitions are accepted in English. Possibly related to the fact other languages like Italian say it that way. Can’t really say I feel strongly about either one being superior. I probably say both versions at random
What left me the most surprised is how boring the translation in English is for combined weapons compared to the Italian one using even jokes or playing on words
A livello di doppiaggio ed adattamenti, qualunque cosa sia, l'Italia ha quasi sempre dato risultati superiori all'Inglese, se dobbiamo essere onesti
Ho scoperto che se si attacca la sagoma di Miceda a qualcosa, quella diventa micediale, e penso che sia glorioso
My best guess for why the Koroks have the K at the end instead of a G is just to keep the name as similar as they can to their predecessors, the Kokiri. Having the 2 K sounds is just more reminiscent that way
I was coming to say this as well. The K sound was very prominent for the N64 era kokiri, and this localization decision would have been made in the GameCube era. Maybe retaining the K sound was done to help English audiences better link the races together.
@@rafaelluciano5596 which itself is weird because the saw they're named after is 'nokogiri' isn't it? like, you add the ten ten to the kana after the initial one as a matter of course.
@@KairuHakubi hmm I'm really not sure 🤔 I had always assumed that koroks/kokiri took a lot of influence from mononoke Kodamas (giving them the K sound from Kodomo/child) but that just be my tunnel visioned perspective from the limited exposure I've had to Japanese media.
@@rafaelluciano5596 Well one thing is for sure, the transition from Kokiri to the Korog design we got was DEFINITELY from the Kodamas. Previous to that, the suggestion was that the Kokiri were more like the mythological woodwife, seeming human on the outside but being wood within (hence the Stalkids in the Lost Woods). But rather than assuming lanky wooden-puppet-esque forms even whilst NOT undead, they became cute little tree kids that rattle, with cute little slightly creepy hole-eyed masks, and I think that was a great choice. I only regret that we no longer get major 'forest' influence in the 'regional elements / sages' plotlines, because Korogs are now just mysterious little spirits more than they are a race of people who interact with others.
Here's a theory I keep thinking about: The Zonai all have names that end in "ru" (as far as we can tell at least), and so does "Hyrule" in Japanese.
So it makes me think that maybe, for one, "Rauru" could've been translated as "Raul" or "Raule", and also, that "Hyrule" might come from the word "Hylian" mixed with the suffix that Zonai names have...
I'm so glad you decided to mention the Construct/Golem translation. Golems, in their original meaning, are dolls made of clay given life to execute orders given by their master. This is exactly what the Constructs are in Tears of the Kingdom, each construct has an assigned task they must fulfill. One golem specifically cooks food. One golem specifically roasts it. And all of them are still running and operating these same tasks, even after thousands of years, because they have been created for the sole purpose of fulfilling them.
And, in similarity to some stories of various golems, they have some personality or humanity to them beyond what would be required for them to just do that task
That might be due to Nintendo of America's shyness regarding specific religious terminology, as "Golem" comes from Jewish mythology.
@fluffycritter I think you might be right, and I think it actually may go beyond shyness! I am not Jewish myself, but I have heard some Jewish people talking about how using "golem", especially in not-Jewish contexts made by people who are not Jewish, could be seen as cultural appropriation considering the cultural significance behind the word. I've heard this conversation when people are talking about the antisemitism in Minecraft (eg. the villagers having large noses while the player doesn't, how they trade with emeralds and are protected by an iron "golem") and one of the suggested alternatives to the name was "Construct"! Thus, it's quite possible that Nintendo named them Constructs rather than golem not only to avoid talking about other's religions but also to avoid any antisemitism in what is already a world with lots of antisemitic coding in various contexts! (This is absolutely not meant as an attack on your comment, just as further theorizing, I was wondering if someone had mentioned smth like that!) Also once again take this with a grain of salt as I am not Jewish myself, just repeating what I've heard others in the community say
@@inkydiamonds Yeah, I am Jewish myself and I'm not thrilled with some of the uses people have for the word as of late, although I'm not quite so quick to claim "appropriation" when people use it either. I'd have probably not been particularly pleased with them keeping the term in the English localization, although at least it's been used in keeping with the original legends.
I’m also studying Japanese and noticed a lot of the same things as you! I only have the audio in Japanese but all of the 「我」stuff from Rauru definitely caught my attention lol
Please please more of this. This is easily one of my favorite videos you’ve made
我means (I) in Chinese. I am guessing 我 is a more archaic form of 私watashi in Japanese. (I am not entirely sure, still learning Japanese as a Chinese )
That side-by-side comparison of dialogue from the kid at the stable to explain keigo was super insightful. With how many NPCs there are in this game, you must’ve felt like you hit the jackpot with that one
I have noticed these days they do a lot more like, dancing around honorifics and polite speech and stuff like that, by explaining them explicitly in the dialogue without making it clearly japanese, and that irks me hard. I miss when translations just threw in a few japanese terms and expected you to get it from context or knowledge. It's so awkward seeing someone be like "oh it's Big Brother Link!" as if we don't know what onii-san means. Great job guys, you avoided awkwardness COMPLETELY with that translation you chose..
As someone that love this kind of content, and might wanna start learning japanese in the future, I say "Yes please" to more of these videos. And heck, it even helps you understand japanese better, so its a win-win situation as I see it.
Japanese is a really hard language to learn - good luck! 🍀
@@IdentifiantE.S Don't intimidate people like that. It'll put them off from wanting to learn it. Encourage them more instead of starting with 'it's really hard'
In French “gloom” called “miasme(s)” so I guess our translators did a good job ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Edit : they also did a great work with “zonau”, in French it’s “Soneau” (which, for an obscure reason, reads “so-na-o” instead of a way more logical pronunciation, which would be “so-no”)
Edit 2 : And it’s “Korogu” as well
Edit 3 : … it’s Golem too…
Edit 4 : It was « Plateau du Prélude » in BotW and now in TotK it’s « Île Céleste du Prélude » (they translate by “Plateau of the Prelude” (idk if that’s a common word in English) and “Celestial Island of the Prelude”, so I guess they kinda followed the Japanese wording ?)
The French version is the best imo, the translation is very well done.
I hate the english translation of BOTW, AOC and TOTK. There's so much wrong with it. So much small weird translations but also big mistakes.
"Secret Stones" for example, that's such a goofy name. I can't take it seriously.
This was really interesting! I love digging into all the small details that go into localization. I'd love to see this turn into a series.
5:06 we can also look at the French translation, that is different from the English one in many ways, and closer to the Japanese one ( such as not having the "abandoned its desire to create a body" mistranslation when Zelda describes Dark Beast Ganon in BoTW )
Malice, from BoTW, is here called "Rancœur", which Google Translates translates as "bitterness", "rancor" and "resentment"
Gloom is called "Miasmes" always at plural ( similar to how "Ténèbres" ( "Darkness" ) works ) for some grammatical reason. It seems pretty transparent to me, but just to wash away any doubt of a false friend, it translates exactly to "Miasma" like the Japanese does
And yes, the French Ganondorf does speak of his "Miasmes" and not of his "pouvoir" ( power )
Also, the French voice actors, both in BoTW and ToTK, did a killer job, even if you don't understand French I recommend listening to some cutscenes in it.
They literally got the French voice actor of Kratos for Ganondorf and while, yes, it isn't as hype as Matthew Mercer, it still is cool.
8:05 The Zonai are called the "Soneaux" ( "Soneau" at singular ) in French.
Except this translation is from the BoTW era. Because when they pronounce it in ToTK, instead of pronouncing it [sono] like the ortograph suggests, they pronounce it [sonɑo], like there is a random a between the n and the e. Yes, it is closer to Japanese, but they could have retconned the ortograph.
9:21 Koroks are called "Korogu" here, which is pronounced exactly or almost like how Korog would be in Japanese
13:04 French also loses that, I feel. And archaic French is at least as incomprehensible as archaic English, especially if you take 15th-century or earlier French.
17:27 French also calls them Golems
18:49 Same for French, the Great Plateau is the "Plateau du Prélude" ( "Prelude Plateau" ) and the Great Sky Island is the "Île Céleste du Prélude" ( "Prelude Celestial Island" )
19:12 Yep, the French translators got the same idea as you.
I guess you can tell from the length of that comment, but yes, these things are very interesting and a series focused on them would be something I'll watch again and again.
I feel like zonai is different in every language, it is zonnan in spanish, and as for the language most of what you said is true for it as well, with a few differences being.
Koroks are Kologs, which iirc is different to most other languages.
Malice is called "Malicia" which is basically the same as english, however gloom is "Aura maléfica" which means something like evil(or malefic if that's a word that exists) aura which is closer to the japanese's way of referring to it with a word used for air.
Lastly the plateau and sky islands are in my opinion closest to the japanese meaning since they're called "Gran isla/Meseta de los Albores" meaning Great island/plateau of the beginnings (Albor meaning the first light of dawn and the first moments of something, but beginnings is the closest word i can come up with right now)
Thank you for writing this comment. I'm French and usually only play games in English, but French TotK really hits different
France have always been the biggest manga and anime market after Japan,
so they know a thing or two about how to accurately translate , and respect the absolute necessity to make as few changes as possible. Make the game understandable in French without changing names for no reason. Without inventing stuff that feels cool to the localisers, without ruining the original feel of the game.
Meanwhile the west have already lost the culture war. They're desperately trying to denature, deface and remove the soul of Japanese art, before it enters their land and touches their population. They're constantly in damage control.
J'avais jamais fait gaffe à à quel point ils s'étaient collés à la VO, c'est cool
I may be wrong, but could it be French language don't want to use archaic French because the thin line between "medieval" and "corny / cheesy"? Just like using British English for Zelda.
Yet, I believe they tried it by giving Ganondorf a "language soutenu" and the use of less common conjugation like subjunctive, and "periphrase". For example, he says:
_"Comme il sied le souverain que je suis"_ which means *"As befits the sovereign that I am"* The use of "il sied" is more than "soutenu", but almost literary. The English version says *"That is what a King must do"* which would be translate _"C'est ce qu'un Roi doit faire"_ (pardon my french...) which is more "language commun". Maybe you could add more to the subject, but I feel that Ganondorf has somehow a mix of formal yet aggressive speech.
In a sense, the English version could have done the same by using many "French origin synonyms" in the English vocabulary. For example, the *"That is what a King must do"* could be translated into _"Here my objective as a Monarch"_
It is funny to think that French Wind Waker gave the Korok the same name as Japanese (Korogu), yet gave the awful name of *Piaf* for the Rito. It is as if they named the Rito like *Spadger* or *Cheep* (like the animal sounds of Chick). Yeah, they named the Rito *PIAF,* just like the songstress.
The moment you started to describe what the Gloom is called in Japanese I immediately thought of Miasma, only for you to mention that exact thing moments later.
Thanks Vaal Hazak for teaching me that word!
I did the same thing lol
Same lol, I literally paused the video to try and think of the word he was reminding me of (miasma), thought of it, unpaused the video, and immediately he starting talking about it
I learned it funnily enough from Okami, a great game
I could watch five hundred of these kinds of videos explaining every possible nuance of the translations. Please make more!
Nice video idea. I really enjoy videos that compare the dialogue between the two games and the languages in them. Would love to see a second or third installment from you.
Apparently, it's called Miasma in game data, although I'm pretty sure that variable names and such in the code are written by Japanese developers (English is a sort of lingua franca in the programming world, and the few non-English programming languages/settings are mostly for educational purposes).
Anyway, something in the English localization that bugged me is the name "Secret Stone." The word "secret" undersells the purpose and power of the stones ("secret stone" only has a mild magical implication, whereas something like "sacred stone" or "power stone" better exemplifies their magical effect), and is literally incorrect (all known secret stones are worn to be plainly visible; not much is secret about them, other than their existence maybe????? But Ganondorf recognizes them). As a dominantly-English-speaker, I wonder what the translation is in Japanese, and if it's a more apt translation there.
It looks like the Japanese name for the secret stones are "秘石(hiseki)" which quite literally just means secret stones. 秘 = secret or mystery. 石 = stone. It's just like a made-up compound word.
So the localisation team probably didn't feel the need to change it up in any way and that it would be best to just keep it as it is for simplicity sake. But I do agree that there might have been a more fitting word in English other than "secret" that would have been more suitable perhaps? Or I think by calling them " *secret* stones" I get the impression there's emphasis put on the adjective 'secret' itself like there's some lore related reason for it but in the original Japanese version it's just simply a made-up fantasy word that uses the two kanji secret+stone.
@@mican8 that's really interesting! I had hoped they had a name based on magatama since they are clearly visually based on magatama
@@y8knsnsnzmzz yeah ditto, I saw them and immediately went "oh neat, magatama. Bout time those show up in Zelda.. oh wait, they already did in Skyward Sword, another game tied to the ancient past, so .. neat." but I'm not surprised they didn't just use it straight, in the same way they don't straight up call their little pixie elves korpokkur. It's more fun making a setting-specific name and identity for things.
I feel like "mystery stones" would honestly fit better, if only because it really bothers me that the stones arent a secret at all
@@catherinecarroll6747 That is the intention; "Zonai" is supposed to be a japanese anagram of the word for mystery, "Nazo".
"Mystery" people with "Secret" stones.
Oh boy, I've been looking into this too. Notably, "Miasma" is also what the game calls gloom internally. And Malice was called "Grudge". Which as pointed out is another word for 怨念 and it properly conveys the point of how long-lasting and specific Ganon's hatred is for Hyrule's royal family, but in English it just doesn’t carry the same weight as "Malice" so I'm glad they went with that.
The fact that they called it "gloom" is also odd to me because while there are of course differences, in general the localization team seems a lot more competent this time around _relative_ to BotW. Almost all NPCs and locations have themed puns for names, but most of these were lost in English and they just came up with something fantasy-sounding roughly based on the Japanese name, like _Zonau Iseki_ becoming "Zonai Ruins". (I kind of doubt the English localizers knew the Zonai would be the name of a people.) But the new NPCs in TotK have names that show the localizers picked up on what Japanese words the names were derived from and used corresponding English ones as bases this time. But they also obviously had to stick with things from BotW for consistency.
Some of the NPCs in BotW had pun names. I recall one that was always standing on a bridge in BotW having “river” (or something water related) incorporated into their name which I thought was kinda funny.
Overall, though, the English localization does make a bunch of odd translation choices compared to other languages. Some of the choices I actually agree with (like Mipha’s saying “grace” instead of “prayer” which means the same thing but carries more weight), but other choices made are quite curious. I’d like to learn the localization team’s reasoning behind some of their decisions.
Could you give examples? I'm curious.
Talking about the Zonai ruins, the version i play (latin american spanish or however it's supposed to be called) actually 100% got it wrong, not knowing they were a race, here it's actually called "ruins of Zonai" (well, Zonnan...) as if it was a name of a person, and this wasn't changed for TOTK.
i love your animal crossing ost uploads 😂
@@sage6861 I have a whole spreadsheet of what everything is named after, but the comment filter removed it because of the link. But in a broader sense:
- Most Hylians are named after plants
- Stable workers are named after equestrianism terms
- Sheikah are named after fruits (this one did carry over in English and should be apparent)
- Gorons are named after tools and heavy machinery.
- Gerudo are named after cosmetics and beauty products
- Zora are named after musical terms (also still apparent in English)
- Rito are named after… cuts of yakitori, or Japanese chicken skewers. Teba + Saki = Tebasaki, or chicken wings!
One cool thing about the italian adaptation is that the great sky island is called garden of time which gives a feeling of sacredness and amenity and the great plateau is called the plateau of the origins which, as in japanese, evokes a feeling of something really old and important
As someone who also studies Japanese using videogames such as Zelda I really connected with what you said about there being a much greater sense of "flavor" when you encounter archaic or ancient forms of Japanese in games. I almost find it embarrassing to go back afterwards and see how little difference there seems to be between Zonai characters and regular NPCs etc in English when in Japanese it almost feels like they're speaking in entirely different languages at times which helps elevate the feeling of "royal class", "subservient worker" like you touched on. You bring up a good point about localization teams taking creative freedom to add jokes and such where no such thing exists in Japanese, but for me it's really hard to read and listen to English dialogue in games anymore after seeing how much more interesting and enriching the Japanese versions usually feel. Like you said though this is probably just because as a native English speaker we get so used to the language that it's hard for us to pick up on the ways we bend and manipulate speech differently than someone learning English as a foreign language. Glad to see someone talk about this in a video, well done!
British Ganondorf be like "You havin' a Turkish mate, I'm the reincah-nation of evil bruv"
As someone who has made one halfhearted attempt to learn Japanese once before, it was very easy to wrap my head around the concepts you were describing, and it was nice to be rewarded for my little bit of knowledge. This was interesting to hear about and I think it would be neat to see more of this for other games!
Learning a language seems interesting but sounds super hard. I took years of Spanish but don’t understand much.
On the topic of “ancient” speech, there’s a sidequest where you photograph 13 stone inscriptions in the sky and have them translated by one of the members of the Zonai research team, and the researcher reads the direct translation to you, which is written in old English almost, it’s really weird, it uses archaic spellings but remains for the most part readable (and the NPC will provide a TLDR for you after). How was this done in Japanese?
I really like this. Been trying off and on to learn Japanese for years (motivation problems, not really a difficulty problem) and learning the differences and seeing what is added or lost in translation is fascinating to me.
There are certain floating islands that contain stone carvings of messages from the past that use a MUCH more archaic form of English. The only one I've seen was one a researcher in Hateno translates for Link. What's really interesting, though, is that the researcher (Tauro, I believe) first speaks the un-translated text, which is in Old or Middle English (sounds kinda like Chaucer), before offering his translation (in Modern English) of the same text. This seems to be a way of imitating the old style of speech used by Rauru in the Japanese version, though I could be mistaken.
Additionally, I think the reason "Construct" was used instead of "Golem" is because it sounds a lot like "Goron," who seem to be based on the Judaic golems of myth (e.g. they're very strong protectors and made of earth). If the game referred to Constructs as Golems, I know I'd need to think about it for a sec to remember the difference between "Golem" and "Goron."
I think golem has been used in previous zelda games as well, iirc, so they might not want to confuse those
My guess on the "Korok" thing is that it's to sound more like a linguistic mutation of "Kokiri," which is the previous form of the Koroks per TWW.
Awesome video! Very well-researched. I really feel while watching this video that I am getting info I couldn't get from anywhere else.
How does this rn only have 5-6k likes?! This is a fantastic video with amazing quality! Keep up the amazing work dude, I just subbed to the channel!
I absolutely LOVE the decision of changing it to Great Plateau. It not only makes more sense in context (why would the citizens of Hyrule be calling it "Beggining"), but it goes so well with it's job of impressing the player by its sheer size/amount of content.
Still remember on BotW release how many hours I stayed only at Great Plateau, it really is GREAT, that's a good title for it
Ok but Origin Plateau would have been even greater,since not only would it be closer to the original name but also it would make sense in-universe as "The plateau where the kingdom originates from" a.k.a. Origin Plateau.
>(why would the citizens of Hyrule be calling it "Beggining")
Because legends say that the Plateau is the birthplace of Hyrule, which is stated by the King's Ghost.
While I agree that the prefix Great does a good job giving the player the Idea of the scale of the Plateau, the name "Plateau of Beginnings" would have a double meaning; "Beginnings" as in it's where the game starts, and "Beginnings" as in, according to the lore, it's where Hyrule itself began.
@@tarotcard0371 Also Rauru's castle was there.
@@hollowhenry04 That's kind of awesome if true. I've been playing BotW again, I could check my map and see what I could find. (Then again, they seemed to ret-con *a lot* of stuff between the games which I... certainly wasn't a fan of that decision.)
Miasma is such a good word for that. I've played so much Dwarf Fortress that I've started using miasma as part of my regular vocabulary, so I felt like I ascended to a higher plane when I heard it here.
...I'm suddenly imagining a Zelda-themed DF mod.
so glad to see stuff like this on youtube! I am learning Japanese through Duolingo so that i can eventually get to where you are for this exact reason.
My favorite part of the video was the Zonau versus Zonai.
Can't wait for more of these. Very curious about the changes between the versions, as i only just learned about how much revali was changed in botw between the English and Japanese dialogs
I get why they wouldn’t go with a word as niche as miasma for gloom, but like you said Gloom doesn’t really have much punch. Even if they wanted a similar word I think “Dread” or something could work just fine. I get why they wouldn’t want something like “Plague” given the last couple years, though.
(Very brief spoilers below with regards to Gloom)
One of my first interpretations name-wise was that it was a projection of Ganondorf’s gloominess- that he would be somewhat of a bitter, melancholic character, kinda like Wind Waker, and his power projects that onto others. But no, he’s definitely pretty gung-ho about being a tyrant without remorse in past and present. I guess Gloom only really works as a title those who see gloom give it, it’d be especially jarring if Ganondorf called his own power gloom.
Also Ganondorf is meant to represent darkness and dark power, the antithesis to Zelda and her light power. Gloom is synonym for darkness.
How is misma niche. I’ve heard this term used in games and entertainment before? I think most people would understand, and if not, it would be new vocabulary to learn.
Miasma is in no way a niche word. I'm not even a native speaker and I've heard it countless times over the 15 or so years I've known English in pop culture stuff like games and comics. Not to mention it should pop up a lot when studying medieval Europe at school. The whole reason plague doctors wear those masks is to protect themselves of miasma that they thought caused diseases.
great video! You have great pronunciation too! Also, for future research, if you want to know the origin of a name or something, try adding 由来 (yurai) at the end. It basically means origin in Japanese and it should get some better articles. Hope this helps!
Definitely would love to have this be a series! I love learning localization changes in games and anime!
i would LOVE to see more on translation differences! i loved reading about how the quest entries are written by link in the japanese version. it’s a cool insight to his personality
I was playing the intro in a few different languages a few days ago, and I noticed that, at least in German, they actually DO call it miasma instead! They also use the word miasma in English in a few descriptions of the gloom, so it's not like it didn't occur to them at all. I actually ended up calling gloom "miasma" throughout most of my playthrough because there's a similar substance in the 2020 version of Digimon Adventure, which just released its English dub that I've been watching. They call it miasma in the dub and the official subs there.
I'd love to see more of these! Etymology has always been a small interest of mine, and I frequently wonder about how things like jokes were in their original language (if they are there at all.)
And if you wanted to do other Zelda games, I'd probably watch those as well.
"That blade is nothing against my SADNESS"- Ganondorf if they used gloom instead of power.
I absolutely loved this video! Very interesting things to note- I just beat Tears of the Kingdom recently, and looking back on what I've seen with this knowledge is honestly pretty interesting!
Hell yeah, I really want to see more of this! I'm learning Japanese in school right now, so this is actually really interesting to me. Keep it up!
I absolutely love these kinds of videos ! Just sad you didn't add translitterations and romanisations for all of us who are unable to read Japanese, but great vid, hope you will get us one more out !
I did for a pretty good amount of the things I talked about (at least, the things that I highlighted specifically), but you're right that there were a few things I could've added romaji for just anyways. Like, in my mind, I figured me saying the word aloud would've been good enough (like for "shouki"), but I'll try to be more disciplined about that in the future
I’m also learning Japanese and I actually started the game in Japanese. So when Rauru was first introrduced, I thought his name is English was Raul and always referred to him as Raul, much to others confusion. It would’ve been funny though. Another thing is that the -son’s are -da’s in Japanese which really fits the old company motto as well as Hudson always saying dadada when building. Love these little nuances and differences between the two versions!
In French, all characters finishing in "son" have seen their name changed to word finishing with the letters "ieh" (pronounced "ié") and their names are puns from various names and objects. As example, Hudson sees his name changed for "Grosailleh", which is kind a kind of fruit bush, named "Groseillier" (Ribes, in English)
In German, they're -da endings too, which results in hilarious names that don't even exist in the German language.
@@Orangecataura In French too, there are a few that are more difficult to catch the original name. As example of a relatively easy to spot the original name, there is the Rito, who, in French, is called "Pervieh", which comes from a bird called "Épervier" in French
興味深いなー
I'm a linguistics nut and am taking my first tentative steps through the Zelda universe with Tears of the Kingdom - so this video was exactly what I was looking for! Please do expand this into a series: I found all of your musings super-interesting.
Funnily enough, in the german version gloom is called miasma, also Zonai are called Sonau
German calls it Miasma and keeps the Sonai as Sonau. There are many examples of the english versions of games changing the original names for no apparent reason.
For an instance: The Ultra Ball and Great Ball from Pokémon are called Hyperball and Superball in Japanese and is kept as the original in other languages like german, but not in English for some reason...
! I didn't know that, but then the balls would match up with the Hyper and Super Potions! They changed the names of the balls but not the potions, that makes it even more weird.
And because of that initial decision, when the games introduced "Ultra Balls" (the ones designed for catching Ultra Beasts) they had to call them Beast Balls in English
Started watching this channel with ssbu facts and over time you have become less of a voice over and more of a person in your videos. Really excellent, feels like you’re much more comfortable or maybe just more passionate? Whatever the reason, these just keep getting better
i remember reading one of the english text boxes (i believe it was a yiga research manual?) that referred to gloom as "a miasma" and immediately i wondered why they didnt call it all miasma because it fits so much better...seems like it was deserved lol
The 始まり in 始まりの台地 refers to the Great Plateau being believed to be where the kingdom of Hyrule was founded whilst also being a pun on it being a tutorial area. But I can't help but wonder if it isn't also a pun on the Nara period being the beginning of Japan given the aesthetic of the Great Sky Island and the Zonai.
This was really fun. Thank you!
keep em coming, this is good stuff
This is a very interesting topic. As someone who only has a very slight understanding of spanish, it's interesting how the dialog changes depending on which language it was translated to. I also don't like how they chose the word gloom instead of something else, and those Malice hands are Floor masters and no one can convince me otherwise.
I also much prefer how Ganon talks in other languages. I heard his introduction in like German or something and according to someone who speaks the language, he speaks in a much more insulting or arrogant tone, going so far as to insult Link and Zelda by calling them "Pathetic worms", instead of his line of "Is that all you can do?"(I think that's what he said in the opening. It's been a bit).
I actually like the word gloom, mainly because i haven't thought about it that much, but secondly because I like the artistic metaphor of the whole game (STORY SPOILERS). When Ganondorf ripped the world apart, he didn't do just that. He created a wound in the very earth. The world, as if alive, became sick and infected. The chasms reminded me a lot of scabs on your skin, like a gash or a horrible cut. I love the metaphor of the world BLEEDING, feeling real pain from the evildoer's actions. So the "blood" being called Gloom felt nice to me, as if to say that the world was sick and gloomy. It's a nice contrast from Malice, which is specifically and directly linked to the Calamity.
I'd love to see this as a series!
This is exactly the kind of content I want to watch to better my Japanese! I passed N3 a few years ago and this was so fun to watch and be able to follow.
I'm probably going to switch my game in Japanese now thanks to you :)
Personally I’d adore more of this series, this video was adorable and very interesting to hear about especially since stuff like this typically goes under the radar
Love to hear more about translational differences. Especially with the side quest For Our Princess! that has a quest-running gag that is phonetically justified. I'm not sure how they consistently could pull it off in other languages.
very interesting video, thanks for sharing your insights!
I would absolutely love to see more language-related content. It's so cool to see the differences between translations of the same game. Please give us more!
"Plateau of Origin" would have been a great name, with a double meaning. Not only is it where Link's quest originates in BotW, but it's also said (at least in English) to be the birthplace of Hyrule. The Great Sky Island makes sense in English though, because of its size compared to the others.
In spanish it's called "Meseta de los Albores" using that meaning. The same applies to the Island of ToTK.
@@Veranek Nice!
French here
"Gloom" is translated as "miasme" (Europe) and "émanation" (America). So "miasma" for the first one, and "emanation" for the second one. "Emanation" is a bit vague in my opinion, but at least it's more understandable than "miasma" which I had to look at the dictionary haha (Every Zelda game makes me learn about my own language) And Ganondorf says those words! So yeah, the english version screw up xD
"Malice" is called "rancœur", so "rancor" / "bitterness"
"Zonai" is tricky in French. It's called "Soneau" (which you can pronounce "Sono") but they chose to pronounce it "Sonao" for some reason. I guess that's to make it ancient and mystic, and still referring to the japanese version
"Korok" is "Korogu" like in Japanese. It means nothing lol, like any races
In the intro, Zelda talks to Ganondorf saying "tu" (non-formal "you", used toward friends, family, children or people you feel superior or equal to) like she ignores who Ganondorf is, and still implying she has a superior social level to Ganondorf, and doesn't feel intimidated
Robots are also called "Golems"
"Great plateau" is "Plateau du prélude" and "Great sky island" is "Île céleste du prélude", which is self translatable! "Prélude" is "prelude" and "île céleste" is "sky island"
Gloom makes sense if you think about it. Gloom isn't probably the real name for it (which is why Gannon didn't refer to it as such), but someone came up with a short "nickname" for it, and it stuck. Many standard English words now are the results of nicknames or abbreviations. Words like "car" or even "[soda] pop".
Changing it from Zonau to Zonai kind of reminds me of how we refer to certain groups of people in the Middle East (e.g. Israeli, Iraqi, and Pakistani).
Koropokkur was also the name of a group of a tiny people in the Mana Series.
I think "Golem" has the connotation of a giant or some kind of large construct in English. When I hear the word, one thing that comes to mind is the running golem boss from Star Fox 64.
I’d love to see more videos like this!
I’d love to see your perspective on the translation differences when it comes to story stuff. I’ve heard some spoiler-requiring aspects of the story are pretty different across the versions, but I’ve yet to see someone do an in-depth breakdown like you do with this video, but applied to the story
The funny thing is that the gloom is actually called Miasma in the Dutch dub
Also, my guess as to why Koroks have the same as the English one is because Zelda games didn’t get Dutch dubs before Breath of the Wild (with the exeption of the CDI games for some reason, which got full Dutch voice acting (something even the recent games don’t have. Since we only have subtitles with the English voice acting).
So we got used to the English name “Korok” since Wind Waker in 2002. And probably didn’t want to change it because of that.
i would watch a complete comprehensive documentary about this by you.
This was interesting, thank you!!
I don't know very much Japanese but I at least know how to read katakana, which is enough to pick up on some interesting changes in nomenclature. Like how toward the end of the video the Flux Constructs are called "Block Golems" (ブロックゴレム) in Japanese, which is... definitely a pretty apt descriptor, if a bit less interesting IMO. I've also noticed how the Loftwings in Skyward Sword are just called "loftbirds" (ロフトバード) when I was watching a speedrun of that game, which I just find adorable, not sure why.
I'm actually curious, is it common for already-English terms to be localized to be (less direct? more creative? not totally sure how to describe it) in the English translations? It does kinda make sense to me (since they're not really Japanese terms it makes sense for them to be on the simple side) but I'm wondering if this is actually a common occurrence or if these terms are the odd ones out.
I don't have experience in the localization of video games, but based on my experience with media in both Japanese and English, I wouldn't say that loanwords are deliberately changed in every circumstance during localization, but yes it is very common. Since many English loanwords in Japanese are used differently than they would be in English, it is sometimes semantically more correct to change them-otherwise it is stylistic and the change is likely made to appeal to the target audience. In Japanese, many loanwords have the same kind of use as non-historically English words do in English, like words borrowed from the romance and Greek languages, they are used in everyday speech today but still have a flair to them that would be lost in translation-think the difference between drink and imbibe, old and ancient (in these cases, the latter, borrowed words are from French). My assumption is that the localization team reading a Japanese game that includes foreign loanwords would think that Japanese players seeing these words will think of them as unique, foreign, and memorable, so the goal is obviously to recreate that same sensation in the target language. That being said, many localization teams also likely try to change loanwords to words that are more trendy, interesting, and memorable to the target audience, as needed. Towards the end of this video, PKBeats shows on screen the Japanese version of the "Rushroom", which in Japanese is the "Gogodake" (Go go shroom), this was changed because the stylization "go go shroom" probably sounds somewhat silly to English speakers, despite being based on English. Similarly, but perhaps more relevant to my points, in Tears of the Kingdom, what are referred to as your "Energy Cells" (in English) are literally called Batteries (in Japanese English)... which is both what they look like and what most English speakers are calling them despite their being called "Energy Cells"-in this case, it seems especially clear that the very natural word choice "battery" must have been changed to create a specific kind of thematic effect that is perhaps felt when Japanese players read the foreign word "battery". To summarize, I know very little but this is definitely a common practice and the most likely reason is to recreate the "foreignness feeling" that is presumably felt by Japanese players when reading English (or any other language) words in the game.
@@waterfallfaerie Very interesting stuff! Thank you for taking the time to go in depth about it. (Funnily enough I actually did notice the rushrooms being named "gogodake" but I didn't pick up on the "gogo" part being based on English... in light of that yeah I definitely agree on changing it for the localization :p)
@@SSM24_ I actually didn't even notice this pattern of specifically English/loanwords being changed until you pointed it out, so I really appreciate your question and was happy to connect more dots in my response. Hopefully I actually answered your question or at least provided something interesting 😅
Also, I'm not perhaps misunderstanding ゴーゴーダケ right? I know it could be the onomatopoeic ゴーゴー that is used when a shounen manga character is about to wipe the floor with someone but it seems more likely to be the English verb go. The same prefix is actually used for every speed buff ingredient in the game, the hot-footed frog, swift violet, and hightail lizard are all called "ゴーゴー○○". This led me to believe that it must be "go" in English, but I could totally be wrong!
Will you make a guide/video on what tools you use specifically while you play to translate? Or in general. I play in japanese too but at a slower pacing, and knowing some tools may help me improve :)
Like I use a dictionary on my phone but it gets a bit time-consuming and frustrating sometimes
Really enjoyed the analysis of these differences, and also want to echo other comments that are pointing out the German dialogue option as having translations that line up differently than the English subtitles that can accompany it. More than that, I think the German language option does an excellent job of matching the tone of the TLoZ series in general. From the northern European inspiration in the geography and architecture, to closely lining up with the feel of NPC grunts and barks that have been part of the series long before full voice-acting, I think it's the language option that's most fitting.
That said, I think British English voice acting could have worked similarly well had it taken on more of a Shakespearean tone, keeping both the grandeur and goofiness intact. It was surprising to hear you sounding relieved at not having a British Rauru or Ganondorf, as I reckon that any American accent is overwhelmingly dissonant with the styling of the TLoZ series. This is my main reason for not using the English voice option, alongside the TERRIBLE British accent that they have given Zelda (I wouldn't like the idea of British accents either if they were all as ropey as that).
Either way, it's nice to find glimpses of a different meaning in the 'English-sounding' word choices of European translations along with the effective emotional weight and tone that they deliver. Finding that they indeed line up closer to the original intent of the writing in Japanese is even better.
please keep going its wonderful!!!
The naming tidbit of the Great Plateau and the Great Sky Island reminds me of the name for Outset Island from Wind Waker, which I'm surprised you didn't mention.
Wow, I didn't even think of that, but you're totally right! Man that would've been a great name for it huh
Outset Island is called "Prologue Island" in Japanese, oddly enough.
I loved Tears of the Kingdom but I could never take "gloom" seriously because it always just made me think of the pokemon, because of that I learned pretty early how easy it was to run through and it made the gloom filled areas feel really unimpressive compared to the malice filled areas from BotW. I wonder how different that would have been if they called it miasma.
This is great! You have inspired me to play in Latin American Spanish since it’s something I’ve been taught since 5th grade but still don’t have a great comprehension of (due to dyslexia) I’ve always wanted to do something like this but never found a game that it would work with! I mean games that are story heavy wouldn’t work since I probably wouldn’t understand a lot of things but tears seems like a good place to start
I love learning about translation and localization! I know nothing about Japanese, but I do know about english. While of course old english is nearly indecipherable to the average english speaker, there are plenty of ways to give a formal/old fashioned tone without losing clarity. I also personally prefer the use of constructs rather than golems, golems have a very religious connotation in my mind as well as a history of appropriation from jewish mysticism. From my understanding golems are protectors created in a time of need, not servants.
(I personally love Jacob Geller's video on golems, as well as the podcast "the ghoul guide association"'s episode on golems)
"video is over, go away."
You go away!
as someone who only knows english, it's really neat to see these kinds of videos! so often I wonder about the differences between versions of games, but I can't understand enough of any other language to be able to find this information myself. especially when the language has a different alphabet, i get completely lost :(
"British Ganondorf" is going to be living in my head for a while now. Though I can't help but notice I'm basically picturing TP Ganondorf with a powdered wig. Feels like I'm thinking on the wrong side of the pond there, but I still kinda' want to see that.
As a french, and discovering the word "gloom", i'm actually surprised for the choice of word in the english version, because miasma is actually used in the french version, as well as the cutscene with ganondorf being faithful to the Japanese text, so idk what the english translatior have done to end up using gloom.
Now i'm curious to know what the other languages used to translate the term "miasma".
Also french version tend to stay very faithful to original Japanese, using korogu and "zonau" becoming "sonneau" (the pronunciation is the same).
In german its the same as french, also just Miasma
I feel like a British VA for Ganondorf could have worked pretty well. Like an epic Christopher Lee kinda vibe (or any other villain from movies really).
But Matt Mercer is always a win
@@crunchevo8974 haha fair enough. I only know him from Vox Machina (because I'm an Amazon Originals basic b-word), but I liked him in that!
I'd love to see you do this for more games.
Especially games that don't have so much language discussions about them.
I'm studying towards N2 (currently N3) and I played through the entirety of the game in Japanese. I still haven't played it in english, but I had a blast. A bunch of words went over my head, and I lost some details here and there, but I understood a lot and I went out of the game not only satisfied with the story, but satisfied with being able to play a game in a language I studied for free on my own with the internet by my side. I don't think there is much more that can give me the same amount satisfaction seeing thousands of hours of studying bear fruit, and I am actually able to understand stuff.
Whats funny is that in french the 'gloom' is actualy called "miasme" which is essentialy miasma
I always interpreted the naming as sort of metaphors for what they do. Malice is based on hatred and resentment, which is itself a reactionary thing which is why it only does basic damage and is easily healed, though it is also something that can “infect” others.
Gloom on the other hand is more of a descriptor rather than a noun like malice, but is accurate to what gloom does. It lingers and stays with you, and at its most concentrated can permanently leave its mark on you. It is also in general, aggressive and suffocating though, in ways such as the gloom spawns, and the massive amounts of land the gloom tends to cover.
I guess to put it simply I’d say that malice is sporadic and feral (like calamity ganon), and gloom is intentional and suffocating. Like a natural disaster vs a bioweapon.
Wonderful video. As a longtime Zelda fan, lesser longtime MOTHER fan, half (long) time One Piece fan, and a very, VERY Japanese-language novice with a zonai-like pfp - I'd say this resonates with me deeply.
So, you nailed how the Constructs read in keigo. It's usually a very direct way to show subservience or lower social standing when speaking to someone like a king or, in modern times, your boss. Still used pretty often today in japanese business culture. However, Raru, Ganondorf/Ganon and even King Rhoam from BotW, speak in what is called 'bikago,' or 'beautiful words.' You were right in that it's more of a poetic, old fashioned, and round about way to speak. It's like saying "The reflection of the moon in your eyes is enchanting" instead of "You have pretty eyes."
The regal speech is in my opinion a little more apparent in the german version.
While the dialect is not old-timey, they speak modern high german (because frankly even middle high german can be nigh incomprehensible to modern speakers), their choice of words tends to be more akin to what you'd see in high fantasy novels.
An easy example is "obsiegen", an older version of "siegen" ("to win").
Guess this is also my opportunity to ask this:
Maybe it's because I'm not a native english speaker, but I often feel like Zelda's about to burst into tears. Is that just me?
It in my opinion a bit jarring compared to the german voiceover, which to me sounds more.... composed and mature.
Native English Speaker here, yea it's just you
@@biggierocc1935 Hm.
As a native speaker I can understand that but it’s just a voice thing some people have.
Some people have a “breathy” voice and others have a “nasally” voice. It’s whether you inflect more in your nose or your chest.
Zelda’s voice is very breathy with a fake accent on top. That changes a personas natural breathing control, so her breathing is super pronounced. I think that’s what you are hearing.
I have met people in real life who sound like that (minus the accent). Trust me, it’s impossible to read their emotions sometimes.
@@TheDarkfighter101 Good point, I am definitely not fluent in Linguistics, so this was very interesting to read
Props to VA, I definitely notice emotions being conveyed through speech in the intro sequence and later in the game over at at [REDACTED], even while speaking in quite a different way to how she usually does. That has to be very difficult
Zelda's voice, dunno how deliberate this is, reflects the exact same way "british accent" came to be in England when the upper crust emphasized words differently TO sound distinguished. And it's the exact same thing how ebonics is going around NOW in USA when Americans can't stand hearing their won voice without cringing, so they have to slur every word into one syllable.
And it doesn't sound British, it sounds like the same Shakespearean toothy speech that survived in New England area when the Brits dropped it, but adjusted with that "breathy" back vowel inflection over nasally front vowels. This is SPECIFICALLY what happens when you do such things as royals do when they start sounding like that: wear elaborate, breath-restricting clothes, and speak in closed dining halls where your voice is carreid over by the echo alone.
The only way it's "british" is that Americans are xenophobic enough to brand anything "distinguished" as THEIR former mainland. And dimwitted enough to substitute real emotions with huffing and puffing to the tune of some cable news evening news show, causing all their emotion to become "political" talking points, and everying rational drain OUT of their so called "politics". THAT is why you have problems PROJECTING emotion to a tone of voice, like basing satire on using a snarky voice and treat that as fighting words. The politics of "are you dssing me?"