Step 45: Making Divinycell H80 Foam Core Panels & Peel Ply, Our Tips & Tricks without vacuum bagging
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 เม.ย. 2021
- We decided to make this video as a, kind of, tutorial. When we first started out there weren't a lot of how to videos/blogs out there for fiber glassing foam core panels and using peel ply! We had to figure things out on our own with the minimal resources out there. Hopefully this will help out those who need it!
17 oz Biaxial fiber glass, 12 oz biaxial fiberglass, peel ply. We use TotalBoat 2:1 Epoxy with slow hardener. Plastic scrapers to spread. Bubble busters/fin rollers in between each layer
If you have any tips, tricks or comments please leave them below for us!
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Impressed by the pleasantness between you two at work.
Thank you!
Nice vid. Lots of tips and tricks. I might be able to add one here: 20:48 to prevent the foam from out gassing bubbles into your layup from below, when you first coat the foam dont use Neat resin, instead mix a batch of resin with 3M glass bubbles into a wet/runny Syntactic Foam slurry and use that to fill the foam instead.
It wont "pump" out under roller pressure. Seals the foam. Leaves a solid flat surface to start the layup. Actually saves a lot of weight and some money as well, as glass bubbles are hollow and displace resin. No worries about strength, it will have properties >PVC or any foam core.
Amen to this comment. The most notable composite aircraft builders start with a micro slurry over the foam.
Thanks for sharing your time, knowledge and experience
Awesome video! Very informative and what I needed. The other videos I found on using foam ferret time lapsed and had music. The two of you gave me the confidence to move forward. Thank you again.
That’s awesome! Glad to hear it. We did this video because we didn’t have any references ourselves! Like we said it’s how we do it, it might not be right but it works. 😂
Thanks. I’m getting ready to build a camper with this method
Great episode! Thanks for sharing your Tips and Tricks!!
Thank you!
Very informative. Thanks
Now that is informative
I hotcoat my fairing resin right on top of the last layer of glass. If done nicely I get to sand only the very easy to sand fairing resin. Also no glass to sand and so no itchy glass fibers on skin. Yes no fiberglass in the air. At the end I have three steps only. Resin and glass and fairing, priming, painting.
Thanks for doing this video, I wish to make some floats for my microlight aircraft and did not have the information to make a strong,light structure. Being in Australia though is harder to get reasonably priced epoxy and glass. I’ll have to see if it is worth making an order with total boat! Your project is looking awesome!
Great 👌
Hi
In my experience with foam glassing I let the air that is trapped under especially first coat of resin escape and try somewhat brush resin back and forth so the air can come out before laying down first glass. The glass rolled onto the resin actually somewhat traps the air bubbles. If air can escape from foam before first layer of glass gets rolled out there is much less trapped under it. So a brush is better for spreading resin since the little ends of the hair in brush pokes the bubbles out of the foam top. The spreader traps the air to much. It takes some time for bubbles to come up. On really tightly woven glass the bubbles are really hard to push thru. The first coat of resin is where you need to let it bubble out of the foam top. Sure it is close celled foam but spreading resin to fast traps air.
If you put a coat of wax on your tools and buckets (inside and out) you won't have any problems cleaning up the cured resin. Also if you use a larger diameter bucket it will give you a longer working time.
Nice job on the video!
If you look on YT for old Rutan composite vids. they had very good how demos..
the cup can be put in a saucepan with ice Like champagne. And the resin polymerization process will go slower
Yes but the epoxy will get thicker and not wet out the glass as fast or completely, I recommend just get a epoxy with enough pot life
Great video guys, nice a clear.
Have you tried doing both sides of the panel in one shot? You can lay the glass down onto the work surface and wet it all out before laying the core down onto the glass ( coat the foam with a thickened coat of epoxy first). Work the core down onto the glass, add weight if necessary. Then lay the upper layer down as you have just done. This is best done using a vacuum bag over the whole stack the help consolidate everything when you pull a vacuum. It’s a bit more involved but saves doing both sides separately...
Thanks! We would definitely be interested in vacuum bagging but at this point we don’t have too much left to do! We have the method down to about an hour per side and it works out well for us after a long day at our day jobs! One side and done for the night lol 😂
Add the breather cloth and vacuum and you have a great end product with 100% adhesion.
Very informative video Building a diy cab over camper would not be for the faint of heart no wander fiberglass ones are 40 thousand dollars . Thank you for sharing .
Thank you! Good luck to you.
Thank you for making this informative video. I just discovered your channel and will have to go back to watch previous episodes; yours is an interesting project. Do you have any tips on where to source the foam core? I’m having a difficult time with that since I just need a few sheets.
We went through Jamestown Distributers. I am not sure how the supply chains are right now but for us it took a couple of weeks to receive. Good luck, and thanks for watching.
how did you edge glue the two panels of divinycell?
Good video showing your method, the only thing I would add is the main reasons for using the peel ply. first as you already know is that it saves a lot of sanding and fairing later on, but the other reason is that when you come to over coat the panel or if in fact you don't get all layers of glass on in one session, you can peel it off and continue the layup without having to sand to remove the waxy surface that forms, the peel ply will remove it, you may think you are using it up because you already have it, but you will definitely benefit later on by reducing the many hours of sanding. keep up the good work.
Thank you! We should have mentioned that. It is true for most scenarios but the epoxy we are using does not amine blush (get the waxy surface)! Honestly another (and main) reason why we love this totalboat 2:1 product.
Awesome and very detailed video. Thanks for this!
I'm looking at doing something similar for a DIY camper I'm planning. Is the final product pretty rigid? I'm worried about wind load or possible snow load. My idea for now was to use 3mm Okoume plywood glued to the outsides of 1/2in foam and fiberglassing over the plywood. So the foam sandwich would be:
Fiberglass
3mm plywood
Glue
1/2 inch Foam
Glue
3mm plywood
Fiberglass
I'm just wondering if that idea is way over-engineered and could be done cheaper or more easily, without adding a bunch of thickness and still being pretty rigid.
Good video. Do You think divinycell could be used on the printing industry?
If I'm doing multiple coats of glass, I would put down choped strand first or at least a cloth with choped strand rear. It adheres better to layers of other material than the woven stuff.
I have seen a lot of people do that. It wasn’t recommended by the boat designers, or our suppliers. Idk if it is because we are using epoxy or wasn’t necessary. For any future builds we may look into that option. Thanks for the input. And thanks for following along our journey 😊
next time you work with glass you can easily do a test patch. You will see the stranded adhere easier and better as it lets the air through better (I think).It sits flat easier. Best practice is normally a slightly bigger piece of chopped, then weaved then topped off with chopped again if strength is the target. @@BuildingMVDauntless
the first layer with Epoxi: use thickened, about 200-300g square meter. Then you avoid many air bubbles that you mention when you are apply the peelply (which "comes" from the divynicell)
Thanks for the information. We will have to try this at a future date. 😊
@@BuildingMVDauntless
Let us know your results.
At a future date.
Great video guys!
But I have a question:
Can I use any kind of resin + hardner for extruded Polyurethan ?
Or are there something take an eye on to guarranty a good bonding or prevent bad chemical reaction between resin and foam ??
Unfortunately we do not have enough experience with other resins to give an accurate answer. We have exclusively used epoxy resin over divinycell h80 foam, with very few issues thus far.
Nice work but in my opinion using that peel ply and working it so much to get the bubbles out of the peel ply you actually removed a lot of resin needed in between the foam and the first layer of 1700. That will cause you to get not as good of a layup in my opinion. You really did great though and your attention to detail and how much you’ve learned from doing this boat is great to see!
Thanks for the tips and information. Although our project is nearing an end. We are definitely still learning a lot. We intend to do some update videos after we are done, on some of the different tips and tricks we have acquired along the way. Thanks for following along 😊
Great video. I'm curious how the edges are finished. Do you overlap when you do the backside of the panel? I need to rebuild the hard top for my sailboat dodger. I want to use foam core instead of plywood, which was used in the original version. Thanks!
We haven’t yet had to finish the edges of these panels but it is recommended to rebate the core about 5mm or 1/4” and fill with a thickened epoxy. Another option could be to glass a layer of glass over the edge after the edges are radiused. Good luck with your build 😊
@@BuildingMVDauntless Thank you!
Guys I cut pink foam panels for my future slaid camper. I want to laminate each panel separately. Give a recommendation please. What fiberglass to use? How many layers? Thanks. And at what minute of the video did you put the second layer of fiberglass?
Hardware store xps needs several things to be fiberglassed well…
1. Sand the entire surface with 180grt sandpaper. The 4’x8’ sheets come out of the extruder with a shiny closed-cell surface. You will have delaminating issues if you don’t open up the surface.
2. Structural panels should then be primed with a thickened epoxy and then start layup when it starts gelling. Non structural panels can be lightly sprayed with super 77 to tack the first layer of glass. But let it cure for at least an hour before wetting out.
3. You will want at least 20oz of cloth on each side for vertical structural panels. For a camper (very boxy, less loads than a boat) I recommend 3 layers of 7 oz plain weave with the middle layer laid at a 45* bias. If you are planning to walk on the roof deck, go 30oz on the top side. Interior Partition panels can go with a single layer of 7 or 10oz.
4. For joints and openings, get 2” and 6” tape in 3 or 4 oz, and 4” tape in 45* bias 6oz.
Nice work! Can fiberglass be applied in a vertical position? Like to cover a Foam Truck Cap?
It sure can. It’s a mess but it is possible!!
Yes, use Thixo in the mix it helps.
Cassie: "Why are we doing this?" Carl: "why are we doing what?" Cause they are crazy and this is awesome! that's why!
😂
What about the peel??
Hi team, what do you use to make a join in the foam core? Stating my built in the coming days. Cutting my teeth on a Ripple Tender from Craig at Sprinted
If you are using pre glassed panels there is a certain way illustrated in Craig’s plans on how to join the panels. Because we are glassing the raw foam without seams we are able to glue the raw foam together with thickened epoxy let dry and glass over the whole panel. Good luck on your build, there may be a ripple in our future as well 😉 😊
@@BuildingMVDauntless Thanks for the fast response, cool having your video's play in the back ground at work here in New Zealand, I am doing the same as you with the foam core and will lay up the glass on all panels. Well let you know how I go on the ripple for sure, I am doing it the other way around and starting on the ripple and then on the cat.....
Can't believe you didn't show the oddly satisfying peeling of the peelply
Lol. We try to leave the peel ply on until we are ready to use the panel. It helps keep everything clean. Be sure to check out some of our earlier videos for satisfying peeling 😊
Hey guys I'm a boat builder if you have any questions please ask
Nice job, but learn to vacuum bag! May be touch more spendy, but the results are way beneficial and much less labor intense! Keep up the good work and BUILD THE DREAM!
Thank you! We didn’t bother because of the size of our build… maybe next time 😆
Whats the name of of your chemical your using sir.because I also make a boat here in the Philippines.thats why I'm asking.
Epoxy Resin from TotalBoat.com!
What foam are you using?
Divinycell h80.
You need a wider roller.
Is that foam core a spongy material or styrofoam ?
The foam is a PVC based foam. It’s extremely dense, not like the feel of styrofoam at all. It is divinycell and you can check it out here! www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/1588
@@BuildingMVDauntless Much thanks. Great job the both of you are doing. All the best with it.
Hmmmm....inyeresting technique but hey it works! I know when we work with that foam we drill 1/8" holes in it to transfer resin through this way it bonds everything together.
How many Gallons of epoxy so far? I'm guessing 60 gallons... But I build in steel so...
Carl never did get to this… but we’re thinking you’re not too far off. We’ll have to reveal that on the upcoming q&a!!
@@BuildingMVDauntless Yes please!
forgot to finish with peelply
Arrgh. Did not show the Peel Ply cured and peeled off!
I know this is an older video but I'm really surprised that you went this far and decided *not* to vacuum bag. it would have solved a lot of your peel ply issues. Overall, it's a great video though.
Put a piece of plastic on top of that and squeegee the resin out. it's like a poor mans vacuum bag also
Sir I'm one of your subscriber .I'm a vlogger from mindoro.i like your chemical sir may I know what's the name of that. Remulta tv my vlog sir
Any video over ten minutes, I watch at 2x speed.
This video, I skipped ahead five-minutes at a time.
My total view-time -- probably less than forty seconds.
.
Suggestions:
* Work from a script
* Rehearse
* Edit ruthlessly.
Why are you interrupting. ROFL!
Way too much waste, lots of unnecessary weight, sanding and resin expense
We haven’t found a better way to reduce the amount of resin used. At the moment we are not set up for vacuum bagging or mixing guns.
You waist alot of material! Probably 20 percent!
Have you guys checked out ‘sven yrvind’.He’s a fellow TH-cam’r who is building an ocean going sail boat using the materials, and techniques you are demonstrating. It’s great synergy. I encourage you to check him him out. He’s a notable mariner.