Possibly - but I need to vet multichannel (20+ simultaneous tracks) recording capability - what RTL is, what sample size is necessary, what interfaces give the best performance (existing or MOTU, Presonus, REM, Arturia. etc.). Perhaps I am asking a lot to see this kind of performance testing as most it seems are just recording ITB or two tracks at a time. Tracking, tracking, tarcking, not mixing.
Got it on nov 8! 😂 Upgrade from M1 Macbook Air base model (my first Mac after about 20 years of Windows). I upgraded for RAM, but it also came with a superior computing power!
@@trebleboost7yeah this is kind of the situation I am in. There no tests that focus on recording many audio tracks from interfaces at once. In my setup I have a large modular synth system where I have 2 14 track audio interfaces with usb c aggregated to record 28 tracks, sometimes a third device to get 2-6 more. Currently I use a 2019 MacBook Pro that has some semi maxed out specs but I still get some artifacts and dropouts and i end up needing to increase the buffer side/latency. I’m just trying to figure out if this will solve that. Or if getting m4 pro would in fact solve this. All the tests online are about using plugins and midi soft synths etc. Which is not how I work.
Dude Im on an M1 Air, running Logic, Maschine, Kontrol, Amp sims, Ozone plugins, tons of midi VSTs, in studio and live, and yes we do everything in the box, in a duo, we us a LOT of power, in low latency mode, we have not had one glitch not one.. I want one of these, but… Other than the AI tools and updates, I really am not needing a faster CPU yet, this M1 Air is still more than enough. I will wait for a good price on a refurb down the road.
Im on M1 Air making beats too and it works smooth just like you mentioned. I use machine, kontakt and a lot of waves and ssl plugins. BUT ! When I’m running mixing / overdub recording at 128smpls/ sessions for bands 60+ tracks with plugins for longer than 30 mins the cpu gets like really hot around 97*C and begins to throttle. So smaller sessions ok, bigger ones need a fan.
16Gb is really absolutely bare minimum if you're using orchestral libraries, for example. Some pianos take like 4Gb. So I don't know how about "more than enough for most".
My concern is the 4 performance cores on the base model compared to 8 on the pro. It would be nice to know how fast 4 cores choke on the base model with 10 tracks of poly synths
The deal is great, but Ableton f.e. does not utilize efficiency cores, which are 6 out of 10 of the normal M4 chips, so you can only use 4 cores out of those 10, which is a bummer.
I have the base model Mac Mini & can record with a 16 buffer size at 1 ms in FL. No stutters, clicks or pops. On my old laptop the lowest I could go before the popping was like 288 Buffer at 7 or 8 ms.
I bought the 256gb M1 mac mini in 2020 and I still use it for engineering, producing and mixing music. Trust me, with an external hard drive this is all you need
Pretty much the same for me, actually, but given that I could resell the M1 for around half original price, I felt it worthwhile to upgrade to this newer model with twice the working memory, etc. But, yes, the M1 is still PLENTY serviceable!
What sort of performance will be gotten for using sample libraries? You'd clearly want to max out the RA... umm, unified memory as sample libraries will fill up memory quickly. So what do you think about the M4 Mini with 24GB unified memory for someone working with sample libraries?
OK... I gotta say that my M1 really gave me a lot of trouble, but then again, it's still working, and it was hacked by a IT pro who I thought was a friend of mine, on my birthday no less (!!!) - the only person besides me to ever touch it. I thought it was ok, but I erased it in the wrong order, and even after I found a way to recover it, force is to admit that the damages are there. My libraries are all fcked, etc - but it does still work with 32gb left on the drive... which when you think about it, is absolutely phenomenal. I'm still running a 8 track concert in Logic as we speak on it and I see no reason to keep it as a backup. It cost 1400 CAD open box. 600 bucks for this is really amazing
As a certified Mac hater lemme say that despite the bare minimum specs in many aspects for 2024, and the connectivity options being halfway sufficient... for the price indicated and that configuration you basically can't go wrong. This seems like an outstanding deal and more than capable of taking everything a budding producer can throw at it.
one thing that a lot of PC and Linux users don't seem to catch or understand about the system being used in these Mac computers is the removal of bottlenecks by having unified memory and other things run at the system bus speed instead of at slower bus speeds. these machines are faster overall, because apple is removing the bottlenecks on traditional logic boards. most PC users that I talk to don't even realize that apple is doing this in their products. so for example instead of memory running on some bus that's a fraction of the speed of the cpu, they are accessing memory on a bus that's running at the same speed as the CPU. things like this improve speeds in ways that are not happening in the PC world right now
I have never seen any videos of a REAL WORLD SESSION with any Mac mini. I've only seen a session with a test tone or pink noise duplicated over a bunch of tracks. Show me a real session 16 tracks of drums, 4 bass tracks, 12 guitar tracks, 4 synth tracks, 4 to 8 vocal tracks, and 4 background vocal tracks. With 1 to 8 plug-ins on all tracks, 1 to 8 plug-ins on busses and sends. Then I'll believe how capable this Mac mini is!
I was doing this with a mac mini over a dozen years ago, too busy actually making music to film it😂 I’m pretty sure this machine out performs one from around 2012!
Can you save all your music to an external drive so when this take a crap its not gone forever? When you save your projects on an external drive will they reopen back into another computer with the same DAW? The RAM and CPU are soldered in on these so it cant be upgraded so thats why I am asking.
Yea, you can save your logic file as as a project file with all the sound files and midi info, but you need all the same plug ins and sound samples installed on the second computer or they simply won’t be included in the mix
I'm sorry, I'm a little confused by your saying that live instrumental music uses FEWER resources than MIDI, which came into being in the mid-80s, and which I thought, since it just represents music parameters in digital quantities, as opposed to actual real-time 44/kHz (or greater) amplitude samples, would require FEWER computational resources. (sorry, my wording is a bit opaque there, I know...)
I have been wanting to get into production with Ableton Live 12 for years now. I've been struggling financially for a while. This might be my only way in to get started. I'm very grateful.
Highly inspiring video! I have been thinking about buying the base M4 or M4 with upgraded storage for now and then buying M4 Pro maybe 6 months down the road? Ironically, my 2012 upgraded Mac Mini died (computer fixit dude said it was proabably the started and not cost effective to fix) two days before the release of the M4. Maybe God was trying to get me to upgrade. I was out of memory on that one, partially because I still haven't figured out how to access Reaper files from the Samsung T7 I bought for that purpose. Anyway, I have too much debt right now from breaking my elbow in January and having surgeries and being off work half the year. I was going to do the Apple payment plan if I can. But I have so many things on payment plans I don't want a huge payment. It's sometimes hard to balance what is good right now with what would be good long term. Any thoughts on if the base M4 would hold it's value so I can resell after some more money comes in and buy the Pro if needed? I need the computer to make more money...I am assuming the M4 will be enough but I don't want to be throttled. Was thinking of upping the storage though. Any thoughts from those who know Macs well and resale value?
Right now I have a tricked out 6,1 2tb nvme and 64gb ram running sequoia and a 5,1 128gb ram running sequoia as well. The 5,1 I use for mixing and the 6,1 I use for Mastering: everything works great but do you think the Mac mini would work great for mastering. I uses studio 7 and it has a 2 track mastering program that lets me stack songs in order with any VST I might want to use only 2 tracks
Is the internal DAC of the M4 Mac Mini base model good enough for listening to HI Res music on stereo speakers? How much would an external DAC cost to really hear a difference in sound quality compared to the DAC inside the M4 Mac mini?
"Good enough" and "difference in sound quality" are very subjective things in music production 😂 I'd say, for normal people, DAC of the MacMini is absolutely good enough. Music Producers will buy dedicated Monitors (studio speakers) and connect them to their Audio Interface anyways.
It would be more fair if the upgrade prices were equal between different ranges. It’s as much for another 16GB on M# and M# Pro systems as they charge per 32GB on M# Max/Ultra systems. I’d just grin and bear it paying £200 for another 16GB but £400 for another 16GB is scam.
@@JohnSHigham What would really help is to see a review where someone uses the base machine and then loads it with as many Kontakt samples as it can handle. I don't know how fast it can use virtual memory or whether it just falls flat on its face.
I have my Kontackt files on a 2tb external Samsung ssd for my MacBook Pro m1 . Works amazing. I’d upgrade to 512gb for the programs. Personally for me id get 1tb internal and then use an external SSD.
As someone who dropped $1000 on a 10Mb RAM upgrade for an Ensoniq ASR-10 and $500 per Syquest 270Mb cartridge for instruments, I find 2024 quite a magical time to be alive.
Would recommend looking at BenQ monitors as they have a range specifically designed to work with Macs that are v colour accurate - Studio Display is still the best option imo for Mac users due to compatibility and display quality but wouldn’t blame you if you weren’t willing to pay the premium for it - hope that helps!
Even better if you use Reaper, Cubase and Protools as they actually fully utilize the efficiency cores which translates to about 35 to 50 percent more performance from the machine than Studio One , Logic and Ableton. Crazy that Apple´s very own software is not properly implemented!
Just ordered a cheap £149 4k AOC 27 inch 60hz off Amazon to see how it goes. It's IPS and I don;t need amazing graphics as long as it's got enough screen space I'll be happy. If its crap I'll send it back and get a more expensive one :)
With 4k 43" HDTVs costing less than $200 and more space than inexpensive monitors, why would anyone buy a "computer monitor" any more. The base model will even support an 8k TV via HDMI if you want a larger display. I use a 50" 4k TV which has plenty of resolution, and at the press of a button, I can watch the broadcast evening news on the same display.
@@eddiegardner8232 Yeah valid point and if I had the space in my home studio I would love a 40"+ TV instead of a monitor. Maybe I can get rid of something unnecesary??? Nah... I have to keep the kids really. Sucks 😂
@@theopacalypse I switched to Logic for good since version 9. Prior to that I was using Digital Performer and Cubase. Those are great DAWs but LP is the best for my workflow.
May not have been intended but the way you phrased it with 'gatekeepers' suggests you're calling recording studios this. Which I take issue with. Studios and recording engineers aren't gatekeepers, just people that have spent many years building the knowledge and skillset you need to be good at recording. As great as home recording is (and I think it's awesome recording is so accessible now) - it has changed things for musicians. As a musician not only do you need to now spend years and years honing your craft as a musician, you also need to do the same as an engineer. Many people get to the stage where they realise they'd rather just focus on being a musician, and this is where recording engineers and studios still have a place alongside self recording at home. Otherwise great video with well presented information!
Pretty sure the gatekeepers are the record industry execs and A&R. There's no doubt that recording and mastering is an art, and pushing an AI button isnt gonna replace it. It is however a big help for those early in learning mastering, as it can show you what to look for
Too true, even in a home studio environment an engineer who loves his work makes all the difference, creating in a different way, doing a different job, keeping the flow and making something beautiful.
Got my M4 Mac Mini last week, and it is truly a life changer, it literally FLIES when using Logic pro x and Final cut, the performance is ridiculous, the game has changed again..!
@@VinceFinemMusicYes, sir ! I recorded an entire record already and edited a professional video with it no hiccups or anything, I did purchase an external sandisk drive but the performance is stellar !
@levitezer the definition of ram in a textbook from 1987 and the definition of ram according to what the average consumer knows it to be when they go to Best buy are not the same thing anymore. if you use expressions from the 1980s, you get a 1980s level of understanding, but if you look at what apple is doing differently, somebody who is used to going to Best buy to buy a stick of RAM for their cheap PC is not getting the same thing as what apple is doing in their machines at all. not even close. these terms are understood in the market differently than they are in the classroom. big disconnect in lexicon. it makes no sense to amplify the misunderstanding by trying to use the exact same term to describe every single technological innovation that comes along that becomes increasingly less and less comparable to the original. even a basic PC gaming builder knows that the word ram isn't good enough to describe what they're going to need to ask for when they go to Newegg to try to buy memory for their pc.
@@etyrnal The definition unified memory is not replacing the definition RAM, it just means CPU and GPU use same memory. Many laptops have now onboard soldered memory, it is still random access memory.
Nice presentation, Sanjay! I have not owned a Mac since OS 8.0. Sad... I know... I have been jonesing for a Mac Mininas an alt platform for a few years. I was thinking about leveraging the low prices on a used Intel version, but dayummm... your argument for a new M4 is so very compelling, especially if you ammortize the investment over time.
Amazing that u touch/spoke about the performance cores, hard to find reviews saying that + i still searching the comparison about MM M2Pro vs M4 base (because the P-cores)
What happens when apple updates their os and forces you into a new model because your programs won't be able to run on the new OS? Or what about the internal cell battery that has to be replaced but voids your warranty because you can't just open it yourself and have to take into apple to repair. To which they'll just tell you it's a dead computer now and you can trade it in for an upgrade, but only if you have applecare. What about having to run all your plugins from an external drive via thunderbolt and creating more clutter and things on your workspace?
256 doesn’t matter!!! Move your ‘Home’ folder to your external and you now have as much real estate for apps and data as you can fit on it. Easily solved just with a base model….oh yeah, look up how to do it because Apple have hidden some of these features so you’ll use them to upgrade 🙄
Yep same - just waiting for a monitor to arrive and can replace my trusty 2012 iMac that has been perfectly fine for years of tracking and working with live instruments. For £999 it's still a bargain but just wanted to be a bit more future proofed :)
@@kieran0000 that’s cool but that little upgrade (like $50-$70) in the real world Apple snacks you for the cost of a second machine (I mean, I can’t think of the TH-camr’s name but he did a video on it saying you could buy two Mac mini base models for a penny less than upgrading one of them to 24 gig and 512 gig of high drive…) I’m just saying those prices are way out of line
MAN!!! I have a 2017 iMac with 64GB RAM that I’m struggling to let go because the Display is awesome but…it’s intel. I may get the base M4 Mac mini and 24Gb RAM as well. Maybe find a not so nice display of same size and just chill lol. Are you finding the 24GB is limiting you in any way? Lots of KONTAKT instances Etc. ??
@@alemusicgirl true - you can just buy an external SSD for a significantly lower price that what Apple charges. Less storage is also needed for musicians who predominantly use live instruments like myself!
I disagree, to me that just write and just wanted something to run smoothly 256GB is ok, after some months i can buy some ssd, not everyone is this professional studio wizards
If you're a professional music producer you'd want to store your data in a NAS or cloud anyway. You can get really high speeds with an external ssd or m.2 in an enclosure, plugged into the thunderbolt 4 port. There is really no need to go for a higher internal storage space, unless you have disposable income and don't want more gadgets.
Still RAM as it is doing "Random Access Memory". I know that now instead of solely being working with the CPU, now it also is working with the GPU. But "technically" it is RAM and VRAM (video ram)
so when they say 130 tracks are they talking about just raw audio recording to a track with no EQ no compression no effects of any kind? or are we talking about the kind of tracks that a real producer would use where there are several plug-ins per track?
The computer is great. The OS is great. Logic is great, and you can of course use any other modern DAW if you prefer that. What's not great is Apple's history of using cutting edge connectivity, then ditching it a few years later. I have two old Firewire audio interfaces, and a Thunderbolt 1 interface that were obsoleted over the years as Apple stopped supporting that tech - though they function and sound as great as they did when they were new. The Thunderbolt one still works on my 2013 MBP (that has 16Gb RAM BTW; 16Gb for music in 2024 seems pretty bare bones), but that computer has long been unsupported and some programs already don't run on it anymore, so it's days are numbered - and therefore so is that $$$ TB interface (if I stay with Apple HW). Apple's master plan, if you ask me, is planned obsolescence. Not just of their hardware, but of peripherals too. I bought a $23 Firewire PCIe card and put it in my Linux box with 64 Gb of (very inexpensive) RAM and connected one of my old FW interfaces. Even if I end up having to buy a new USB audio interface (like the $190 Behringer), I expect it will work for years since it has no proprietary drivers which require constant updates and support from the manufacturer as Apple tweaks their OS. It's a shame really. Apple really could democratize music production if they would just stick with a protocol. They could still have the latest blingy ports, and switch them generation to maintain the brand or whatever, but keep one for the little people. The rest of the world does just fine with USB, for example. I have 15 year old USB peripherals I can plug into any modern machine with standard USB ports and they just work. When it was USB 1.0 vs Firewire, there was a legitimate bandwidth argument for the "esoteric" Firewire protocol for music. Nowadays, USB4 or whatever we're on is more than enough for music. I want to love this Mac Mini, buy a USB audio interface, and believe I'd be able to use that setup for the next 10 years. If it does all I want and more today, why must I accept that it won't do the same thing in 10 years? Maybe it would. Maybe things have truly changed and this is a new era for Apple and computer music production. I'll believe it when I see it. In the meantime, I'ma keep using Bitwig on Debian 12 with my 20 year old FW audio interfaces that still sound great.
the trick is to get the MOST machine you can afford at the time cuz that set up will easily last 10 years.. no need for constant adjustments.. just continue to upgrade the OS until you cant
yeah apple seems to think that the whole wide world can afford to completely replace all their computer peripherals and other hardware every three or four years. I have a 2012 5, 1 Mac pro that can easily handle my musical workflow and more, but Apple decided that they want me to replace my computer and my operating system and my audio interface and everything else all over again plus the fact that many of my Intel vsts might not be available in m4 compatible versions and I have over 200 plugins. so Apple just doesn't care they just think everybody is Rich and can just afford to keep replacing everything over and over again. and that our time is meaningless when we have to re-obtain reinstall re-register reset up a couple hundred plugins every time they decide they want to revolutionize something. what would be a real revolution is as if they learned how to carry forward the old technology. there's no reason they can't
Awesome vid, Got a Mac mini in 2012 to produce PREXENTS; upgraded memory 2 years ago. Got logic on a 2012 MacBook with free plugs that are better than waves ai bs plugs I tested on new macs. Love Macminis! but waves & ai plugs is wasting energy compared to my no ai setup at least for now, producing PREXENTS is a different story. Cheers
I spent $1100 to get Arturias V collection , including the synclavier V.. and 37 other vintage soft synths for $300.. Black Friday sale 2024.. I lucked out.. also got crossgrades to pigments and FX 5, each $50..
130 tracks is a nebulous thing. You have to factor what plugins are used and how many per track etc. I think a standard needs to be formulated. Three general types; rock, electronic and score. Rock should be SD3 with EQ/compression/saturation per individual drum, 5 guitar tracks with EQ/compression/saturation per track (quad tracked guitar and a lead guitar track) and a bass guitar with EQ/compression/saturation. Maybe go Neural DSP Friedman or something for the guitars, not sure regarding the bass. Then fab filter on the reverb and delay for the mix buss. To know where the threshold is, copy the bass and guitar only until failure. Electronic; 5 tracks of Serum, five tracks of Kontakt with EQ/compression/saturation each track, kick 3 and mix buss similar to rock. Duplicate everything except Kick 3 until failure. I don’t write scores, but maybe Kontakt with the same plugins as the other tests until failure? We need a standard.
I just found out that a $2400 M2 Macbook air with 2 TB and 24 gB of memory has bad memory and it's only been 2 years. They say we have to pay $540 to get it fixed. I will NOT buy Apple again. If I bought a Ferrari and it had a cracked block, they would replace it. I am livid.
RAM = random access memory = all storage is equally accessible, this is important cause information stored on hard drives have to be scheduled when being accessed, so that the drive can maximize throughput, but though the data transfers quickly, the access delay for read and write plus the time it takes to fetch the storage, takes forever.. You should never put a swap partition or working folder, such as for recording to on an external drive regardless of the implementation, bandwidth or read/write delays, it won't matter cause the distance information needs to travel from drives, is like a difference of seconds to weeks for the computer's needs. Its like the difference of having a local talent versus having to put out an ad for a new musician and auditioning, tgats thescale of difference how close storage is to the processor . Also the unified memory is shared memory, that means the devices in the chip will communicate asynchronously via the unified memory.. If the CPU had-its own memory, and the GPU.. You couldn't easily perform image processing operations on images in realtime to the screen via the GPU.. The fairlight sampler had 8k ram for each voice, and each voice was a circuit board, but for this reason, all the voices couldn't share the memory, so the ram couldn't be combined and used by all the voices..
Why would this be a better solution than a 2024 iMac All-in-One Desktop Computer? By the time you add in the price of the apple monitor, keyboard, and mouse you'll have paid more for the Mini system.
Get even more pit of your M4 chip by ditching Logic "pro". James Zhang did a test showing that Cubase, pro tools and Reaper were far better at utilizing all cores than Logic Pro, Studio One 7, FL Studio and Ableton (which really sucks)..
M2 Max here. Absolutely zero reason to move to M4 for audio, at least for me. And base M4 can’t touch video editing performance of Max. Still, an incredible deal.
If someone is doing work that can fit into 16gb of unified ram, then the speed of the CPU/GPU is irrelevant because you are already severely limited in capacity. Apple doesn't do anything magic with "efficient" ram. It's insane how little ram this is in 2024.
you dont want to put the 512GB solid state drive inside the computer, if you are storing data.. the executables and recording tracks, vm need to be inside the device..
So it „changes music forever“ because it is more affordable than other computers who have existed before and could do the same? Wow. If that is not clickbait, what is? Also, constantly talking about it costing 599 is ridiculous. It’s the price of the base model which no one will get because you can‘t do anything with 256gb, let alone music production.
The computing/recording capability in the small and cost effective package is game changing for recording, but in the current environment it is still incredibly difficult to make a significant amount of income with those recordings.
I think I would have changed the title of the video. The M4 MAC cannot CHANGE music, however it can greatly enhance our capabilities to MAKE music. But it doesn't change music, people change music. And 256GB is not enough room to even start with music production.
Are you getting a new M4 Mac Mini?
Yep! Grabbing it at the Apple Store in a few hours. It will be a nice upgrade from my 2018 Intel Mac Mini!
Possibly - but I need to vet multichannel (20+ simultaneous tracks) recording capability - what RTL is, what sample size is necessary, what interfaces give the best performance (existing or MOTU, Presonus, REM, Arturia. etc.). Perhaps I am asking a lot to see this kind of performance testing as most it seems are just recording ITB or two tracks at a time. Tracking, tracking, tarcking, not mixing.
Got it on nov 8! 😂 Upgrade from M1 Macbook Air base model (my first Mac after about 20 years of Windows). I upgraded for RAM, but it also came with a superior computing power!
Got mine on launch day :) thank you for a straightforward review.
@@trebleboost7yeah this is kind of the situation I am in. There no tests that focus on recording many audio tracks from interfaces at once. In my setup I have a large modular synth system where I have 2 14 track audio interfaces with usb c aggregated to record 28 tracks, sometimes a third device to get 2-6 more. Currently I use a 2019 MacBook Pro that has some semi maxed out specs but I still get some artifacts and dropouts and i end up needing to increase the buffer side/latency.
I’m just trying to figure out if this will solve that. Or if getting m4 pro would in fact solve this.
All the tests online are about using plugins and midi soft synths etc. Which is not how I work.
Dude Im on an M1 Air, running Logic, Maschine, Kontrol, Amp sims, Ozone plugins, tons of midi VSTs, in studio and live, and yes we do everything in the box, in a duo, we us a LOT of power, in low latency mode, we have not had one glitch not one.. I want one of these, but… Other than the AI tools and updates, I really am not needing a faster CPU yet, this M1 Air is still more than enough. I will wait for a good price on a refurb down the road.
How much ram did you go for?
You are my hero… seriously
100% agree with this.
I agree
Im on M1 Air making beats too and it works smooth just like you mentioned. I use machine, kontakt and a lot of waves and ssl plugins. BUT ! When I’m running mixing / overdub recording at 128smpls/ sessions for bands 60+ tracks with plugins for longer than 30 mins the cpu gets like really hot around 97*C and begins to throttle. So smaller sessions ok, bigger ones need a fan.
What audio interfaces are compatible with the M4?
16Gb is really absolutely bare minimum if you're using orchestral libraries, for example. Some pianos take like 4Gb. So I don't know how about "more than enough for most".
My concern is the 4 performance cores on the base model compared to 8 on the pro. It would be nice to know how fast 4 cores choke on the base model with 10 tracks of poly synths
How many SSD can I install internally for all my audio projects?
The deal is great, but Ableton f.e. does not utilize efficiency cores, which are 6 out of 10 of the normal M4 chips, so you can only use 4 cores out of those 10, which is a bummer.
I truly felt that ableton didnt perform close to Logic on intel as well.
Best line : "If you do need more computing power, then you will already know that you need more computing power." Priceless.
The base model with an external two terabyte drive is highly recommended, faster and easy to set up
I have the base model Mac Mini & can record with a 16 buffer size at 1 ms in FL. No stutters, clicks or pops. On my old laptop the lowest I could go before the popping was like 288 Buffer at 7 or 8 ms.
@@RickRijuanaPro great to hear and glad you’re enjoying it!
I bought the 256gb M1 mac mini in 2020 and I still use it for engineering, producing and mixing music. Trust me, with an external hard drive this is all you need
Pretty much the same for me, actually, but given that I could resell the M1 for around half original price, I felt it worthwhile to upgrade to this newer model with twice the working memory, etc. But, yes, the M1 is still PLENTY serviceable!
What sort of performance will be gotten for using sample libraries? You'd clearly want to max out the RA... umm, unified memory as sample libraries will fill up memory quickly. So what do you think about the M4 Mini with 24GB unified memory for someone working with sample libraries?
what monitor would you suggest with the m4 mac mini?
I paired my M4 Mini with the Apple Studio Display: 27 inch screen, 216 ppi, 600 nits of brightness.
OK... I gotta say that my M1 really gave me a lot of trouble, but then again, it's still working, and it was hacked by a IT pro who I thought was a friend of mine, on my birthday no less (!!!) - the only person besides me to ever touch it. I thought it was ok, but I erased it in the wrong order, and even after I found a way to recover it, force is to admit that the damages are there. My libraries are all fcked, etc - but it does still work with 32gb left on the drive... which when you think about it, is absolutely phenomenal. I'm still running a 8 track concert in Logic as we speak on it and I see no reason to keep it as a backup. It cost 1400 CAD open box. 600 bucks for this is really amazing
As a certified Mac hater lemme say that despite the bare minimum specs in many aspects for 2024, and the connectivity options being halfway sufficient... for the price indicated and that configuration you basically can't go wrong. This seems like an outstanding deal and more than capable of taking everything a budding producer can throw at it.
one thing that a lot of PC and Linux users don't seem to catch or understand about the system being used in these Mac computers is the removal of bottlenecks by having unified memory and other things run at the system bus speed instead of at slower bus speeds. these machines are faster overall, because apple is removing the bottlenecks on traditional logic boards. most PC users that I talk to don't even realize that apple is doing this in their products. so for example instead of memory running on some bus that's a fraction of the speed of the cpu, they are accessing memory on a bus that's running at the same speed as the CPU. things like this improve speeds in ways that are not happening in the PC world right now
I have never seen any videos of a REAL WORLD SESSION with any Mac mini. I've only seen a session with a test tone or pink noise duplicated over a bunch of tracks.
Show me a real session 16 tracks of drums, 4 bass tracks, 12 guitar tracks, 4 synth tracks, 4 to 8 vocal tracks, and 4 background vocal tracks. With 1 to 8 plug-ins on all tracks, 1 to 8 plug-ins on busses and sends. Then I'll believe how capable this Mac mini is!
Google it. Theres studios running 100+LIVE track sessions on the 32gb ram version. Youre welcome.
I was doing this with a mac mini over a dozen years ago, too busy actually making music to film it😂 I’m pretty sure this machine out performs one from around 2012!
@richardparsons 😂😂😂 I'm surprised you have time to comment then.
Can you save all your music to an external drive so when this take a crap its not gone forever? When you save your projects on an external drive will they reopen back into another computer with the same DAW? The RAM and CPU are soldered in on these so it cant be upgraded so thats why I am asking.
Yea, you can save your logic file as as a project file with all the sound files and midi info, but you need all the same plug ins and sound samples installed on the second computer or they simply won’t be included in the mix
How long does it need to boot up?
10 seconds. Thereabouts.
I'm sorry, I'm a little confused by your saying that live instrumental music uses FEWER resources than MIDI, which came into being in the mid-80s, and which I thought, since it just represents music parameters in digital quantities, as opposed to actual real-time 44/kHz (or greater) amplitude samples, would require FEWER computational resources. (sorry, my wording is a bit opaque there, I know...)
I have been wanting to get into production with Ableton Live 12 for years now. I've been struggling financially for a while. This might be my only way in to get started. I'm very grateful.
Highly inspiring video!
I have been thinking about buying the base M4 or M4 with upgraded storage for now and then buying M4 Pro maybe 6 months down the road?
Ironically, my 2012 upgraded Mac Mini died (computer fixit dude said it was proabably the started and not cost effective to fix) two days before the release of the M4. Maybe God was trying to get me to upgrade. I was out of memory on that one, partially because I still haven't figured out how to access Reaper files from the Samsung T7 I bought for that purpose.
Anyway, I have too much debt right now from breaking my elbow in January and having surgeries and being off work half the year. I was going to do the Apple payment plan if I can. But I have so many things on payment plans I don't want a huge payment.
It's sometimes hard to balance what is good right now with what would be good long term. Any thoughts on if the base M4 would hold it's value so I can resell after some more money comes in and buy the Pro if needed? I need the computer to make more money...I am assuming the M4 will be enough but I don't want to be throttled. Was thinking of upping the storage though. Any thoughts from those who know Macs well and resale value?
Right now I have a tricked out 6,1 2tb nvme and 64gb ram
running sequoia and a 5,1 128gb ram running sequoia as well. The 5,1 I use for mixing and the 6,1 I use for Mastering: everything works great but do you think the Mac mini would work great for mastering. I uses studio 7 and it has a 2 track mastering program that lets me stack songs in order with any VST I might want to use only 2 tracks
Very nice and help full is it, for external vst and plug-in its said that internal storage needed or from external storage also it can work smoothly?
Is the internal DAC of the M4 Mac Mini base model good enough for listening to HI Res music on stereo speakers? How much would an external DAC cost to really hear a difference in sound quality compared to the DAC inside the M4 Mac mini?
"Good enough" and "difference in sound quality" are very subjective things in music production 😂
I'd say, for normal people, DAC of the MacMini is absolutely good enough.
Music Producers will buy dedicated Monitors (studio speakers) and connect them to their Audio Interface anyways.
The problem I have with it is the memory. I need 32gb for Kontakt samples - and I'm not paying silly money to upgrade to the pro spec
It would be more fair if the upgrade prices were equal between different ranges. It’s as much for another 16GB on M# and M# Pro systems as they charge per 32GB on M# Max/Ultra systems. I’d just grin and bear it paying £200 for another 16GB but £400 for another 16GB is scam.
@@JohnSHigham What would really help is to see a review where someone uses the base machine and then loads it with as many Kontakt samples as it can handle. I don't know how fast it can use virtual memory or whether it just falls flat on its face.
I have my Kontackt files on a 2tb external Samsung ssd for my MacBook Pro m1 . Works amazing. I’d upgrade to 512gb for the programs. Personally for me id get 1tb internal and then use an external SSD.
As someone who dropped $1000 on a 10Mb RAM upgrade for an Ensoniq ASR-10 and $500 per Syquest 270Mb cartridge for instruments, I find 2024 quite a magical time to be alive.
Haha yes! I spent £200 on 2mb of sample ram for my Kurzweil K2000 back in the 90s!
You know the vibes!
@@MatthewHarrold I thought those carts were 230mb?
@@etyrnal nope, they started as 135mb then went double trouble. If you forgot the SCSI terminator, they self terminated.
@MatthewHarrold ez flyer
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SyQuest_Technology
Really interesting. Thanks.
I'm considering this Mac for my music production - will I be able to use my Yamaha MG10XU mixer/audio interface with it?
Make sure it has drivers for the Apple M processor (or hybrid for both) and not just the old Intel processor.
@@VinceFinemMusic you should be fine, it works with my M1, the connectivity is using the Apple Core Audio.
Awesome video, I love it. I do like where Apple is going with the Mac too.
Great video - Any thoughts on monitor to go along with this - currently using an older 2012 Imac 27 inch.
Would recommend looking at BenQ monitors as they have a range specifically designed to work with Macs that are v colour accurate - Studio Display is still the best option imo for Mac users due to compatibility and display quality but wouldn’t blame you if you weren’t willing to pay the premium for it - hope that helps!
Even better if you use Reaper, Cubase and Protools as they actually fully utilize the efficiency cores which translates to about 35 to 50 percent more performance from the machine than Studio One , Logic and Ableton. Crazy that Apple´s very own software is not properly implemented!
Great review. Can you recommend a monitor for the m4 mini and Logic Pro? I can’t afford an Apple display but would like good real estate for Logic.
@@Tolbiny definitely check out the BenQ range - they’ve got a few monitors specifically designed to work with Mac and I’ve heard great things
Just ordered a cheap £149 4k AOC 27 inch 60hz off Amazon to see how it goes. It's IPS and I don;t need amazing graphics as long as it's got enough screen space I'll be happy. If its crap I'll send it back and get a more expensive one :)
With 4k 43" HDTVs costing less than $200 and more space than inexpensive monitors, why would anyone buy a "computer monitor" any more. The base model will even support an 8k TV via HDMI if you want a larger display. I use a 50" 4k TV which has plenty of resolution, and at the press of a button, I can watch the broadcast evening news on the same display.
@@eddiegardner8232 Yeah valid point and if I had the space in my home studio I would love a 40"+ TV instead of a monitor. Maybe I can get rid of something unnecesary??? Nah... I have to keep the kids really. Sucks 😂
@@eddiegardner8232 Good tip, thanks.
I bought mine last tuesday and it's truly rewarding seeing so much positive reviews around. Can't wait to move all my stuff and start using Logic.
Which daw were you using before?
@@theopacalypse I switched to Logic for good since version 9. Prior to that I was using Digital Performer and Cubase. Those are great DAWs but LP is the best for my workflow.
May not have been intended but the way you phrased it with 'gatekeepers' suggests you're calling recording studios this. Which I take issue with. Studios and recording engineers aren't gatekeepers, just people that have spent many years building the knowledge and skillset you need to be good at recording. As great as home recording is (and I think it's awesome recording is so accessible now) - it has changed things for musicians. As a musician not only do you need to now spend years and years honing your craft as a musician, you also need to do the same as an engineer. Many people get to the stage where they realise they'd rather just focus on being a musician, and this is where recording engineers and studios still have a place alongside self recording at home.
Otherwise great video with well presented information!
Pretty sure the gatekeepers are the record industry execs and A&R.
There's no doubt that recording and mastering is an art, and pushing an AI button isnt gonna replace it. It is however a big help for those early in learning mastering, as it can show you what to look for
Too true, even in a home studio environment an
engineer who loves his work makes all the difference, creating in a different way, doing a different job, keeping the flow and making something beautiful.
@patgleeson1825 absolutely!
Got my M4 Mac Mini last week, and it is truly a life changer, it literally FLIES when using Logic pro x and Final cut, the performance is ridiculous, the game has changed again..!
The 599 base model?
@@VinceFinemMusicYes, sir ! I recorded an entire record already and edited a professional video with it no hiccups or anything, I did purchase an external sandisk drive but the performance is stellar !
Unified memory is RAM, it is just the same memory shared by CPU and GPU
ram is actually slower. unified memory doesn't have the bottleneck of the slower bus speeds on a crappy PC logic board
@@etyrnal even that it is more integrated closer to CPU , it is still RAM, Random Access Memory, or not?
@levitezer the definition of ram in a textbook from 1987 and the definition of ram according to what the average consumer knows it to be when they go to Best buy are not the same thing anymore. if you use expressions from the 1980s, you get a 1980s level of understanding, but if you look at what apple is doing differently, somebody who is used to going to Best buy to buy a stick of RAM for their cheap PC is not getting the same thing as what apple is doing in their machines at all. not even close. these terms are understood in the market differently than they are in the classroom. big disconnect in lexicon. it makes no sense to amplify the misunderstanding by trying to use the exact same term to describe every single technological innovation that comes along that becomes increasingly less and less comparable to the original. even a basic PC gaming builder knows that the word ram isn't good enough to describe what they're going to need to ask for when they go to Newegg to try to buy memory for their pc.
@@etyrnal The definition unified memory is not replacing the definition RAM, it just means CPU and GPU use same memory. Many laptops have now onboard soldered memory, it is still random access memory.
@@levitezer sure, if you're from 1989.
Nice presentation, Sanjay! I have not owned a Mac since OS 8.0. Sad... I know... I have been jonesing for a Mac Mininas an alt platform for a few years. I was thinking about leveraging the low prices on a used Intel version, but dayummm... your argument for a new M4 is so very compelling, especially if you ammortize the investment over time.
Thanks so much 🙏🏾 and I would do it - you won’t regret the purchase!
How much do you need to spend beyond the 600$? I mean, all software, cables, devices, (maybe extra hard drive) for the minimum setup?
As a relatively new Mac user, can someone tell me how, or if, Unified Memory differs from RAM?
Ram you can generaly upgrade and replace. unified means its fixed and soldered in. Otherwise memory is memory, as far as i remember 😂
Cheers man
Cheers for the info too v helpful 👍🏾
I am guessing running Ableton 11 would be similar performance to Logic Pro ?
Great video .
✌️ ☮️
Ableton is more efficient
how about Garageband? I play Digitakt Monologue xd and several other synts
Amazing that u touch/spoke about the performance cores, hard to find reviews saying that + i still searching the comparison about MM M2Pro vs M4 base (because the P-cores)
What happens when apple updates their os and forces you into a new model because your programs won't be able to run on the new OS? Or what about the internal cell battery that has to be replaced but voids your warranty because you can't just open it yourself and have to take into apple to repair. To which they'll just tell you it's a dead computer now and you can trade it in for an upgrade, but only if you have applecare.
What about having to run all your plugins from an external drive via thunderbolt and creating more clutter and things on your workspace?
Great review, subscribed.
256 doesn’t matter!!!
Move your ‘Home’ folder to your external and you now have as much real estate for apps and data as you can fit on it. Easily solved just with a base model….oh yeah, look up how to do it because Apple have hidden some of these features so you’ll use them to upgrade 🙄
But you need to buy a monitor to match it?
I got the 24Gb of UM and 512 Storage. Absolutely Perfect
Yep same - just waiting for a monitor to arrive and can replace my trusty 2012 iMac that has been perfectly fine for years of tracking and working with live instruments. For £999 it's still a bargain but just wanted to be a bit more future proofed :)
@@kieran0000 that’s cool but that little upgrade (like $50-$70) in the real world Apple snacks you for the cost of a second machine (I mean, I can’t think of the TH-camr’s name but he did a video on it saying you could buy two Mac mini base models for a penny less than upgrading one of them to 24 gig and 512 gig of high drive…) I’m just saying those prices are way out of line
MAN!!! I have a 2017 iMac with 64GB RAM that I’m struggling to let go because the Display is awesome but…it’s intel. I may get the base M4 Mac mini and 24Gb RAM as well. Maybe find a not so nice display of same size and just chill lol. Are you finding the 24GB is limiting you in any way? Lots of KONTAKT instances Etc. ??
Excellent video, thanks for sharing.
@@infographie thanks!
256gb is nowhere near enough for a music producer collecting libraries so you would at least look for the 512gb which are 200 extra
@@alemusicgirl true - you can just buy an external SSD for a significantly lower price that what Apple charges. Less storage is also needed for musicians who predominantly use live instruments like myself!
@@sanjaypanchalmusic 100% anyone paying apple tax on internal storage is silly.
I disagree, to me that just write and just wanted something to run smoothly 256GB is ok, after some months i can buy some ssd, not everyone is this professional studio wizards
If you're a professional music producer you'd want to store your data in a NAS or cloud anyway. You can get really high speeds with an external ssd or m.2 in an enclosure, plugged into the thunderbolt 4 port. There is really no need to go for a higher internal storage space, unless you have disposable income and don't want more gadgets.
You don’t need internal storage for that; just buy external SSD’s, way cheaper than Apple and fast enough. Like Samsung T7 for example.
I don't really understand... MIDI tracks need more power?. I always thought audio tracks need a lot more processing power
It also has realtime raytracing and 10 terraflops
Still RAM as it is doing "Random Access Memory". I know that now instead of solely being working with the CPU, now it also is working with the GPU. But "technically" it is RAM and VRAM (video ram)
so when they say 130 tracks are they talking about just raw audio recording to a track with no EQ no compression no effects of any kind? or are we talking about the kind of tracks that a real producer would use where there are several plug-ins per track?
The computer is great. The OS is great. Logic is great, and you can of course use any other modern DAW if you prefer that.
What's not great is Apple's history of using cutting edge connectivity, then ditching it a few years later. I have two old Firewire audio interfaces, and a Thunderbolt 1 interface that were obsoleted over the years as Apple stopped supporting that tech - though they function and sound as great as they did when they were new. The Thunderbolt one still works on my 2013 MBP (that has 16Gb RAM BTW; 16Gb for music in 2024 seems pretty bare bones), but that computer has long been unsupported and some programs already don't run on it anymore, so it's days are numbered - and therefore so is that $$$ TB interface (if I stay with Apple HW).
Apple's master plan, if you ask me, is planned obsolescence. Not just of their hardware, but of peripherals too. I bought a $23 Firewire PCIe card and put it in my Linux box with 64 Gb of (very inexpensive) RAM and connected one of my old FW interfaces. Even if I end up having to buy a new USB audio interface (like the $190 Behringer), I expect it will work for years since it has no proprietary drivers which require constant updates and support from the manufacturer as Apple tweaks their OS.
It's a shame really. Apple really could democratize music production if they would just stick with a protocol. They could still have the latest blingy ports, and switch them generation to maintain the brand or whatever, but keep one for the little people. The rest of the world does just fine with USB, for example. I have 15 year old USB peripherals I can plug into any modern machine with standard USB ports and they just work. When it was USB 1.0 vs Firewire, there was a legitimate bandwidth argument for the "esoteric" Firewire protocol for music. Nowadays, USB4 or whatever we're on is more than enough for music.
I want to love this Mac Mini, buy a USB audio interface, and believe I'd be able to use that setup for the next 10 years. If it does all I want and more today, why must I accept that it won't do the same thing in 10 years? Maybe it would. Maybe things have truly changed and this is a new era for Apple and computer music production. I'll believe it when I see it. In the meantime, I'ma keep using Bitwig on Debian 12 with my 20 year old FW audio interfaces that still sound great.
the trick is to get the MOST machine you can afford at the time cuz that set up will easily last 10 years.. no need for constant adjustments.. just continue to upgrade the OS until you cant
Apple is aware of their connectivity issue, but they also need to keep their shareholders happy.
yeah apple seems to think that the whole wide world can afford to completely replace all their computer peripherals and other hardware every three or four years. I have a 2012 5, 1 Mac pro that can easily handle my musical workflow and more, but Apple decided that they want me to replace my computer and my operating system and my audio interface and everything else all over again plus the fact that many of my Intel vsts might not be available in m4 compatible versions and I have over 200 plugins. so Apple just doesn't care they just think everybody is Rich and can just afford to keep replacing everything over and over again. and that our time is meaningless when we have to re-obtain reinstall re-register reset up a couple hundred plugins every time they decide they want to revolutionize something. what would be a real revolution is as if they learned how to carry forward the old technology. there's no reason they can't
Awesome vid, Got a Mac mini in 2012 to produce PREXENTS; upgraded memory 2 years ago.
Got logic on a 2012 MacBook with free plugs that are better than waves ai bs plugs I tested on new macs.
Love Macminis! but waves & ai plugs is wasting energy compared to my no ai setup at least for now, producing PREXENTS is a different story. Cheers
Cheers 😊 👍
Great video 👊
I spent $1100 to get Arturias V collection , including the synclavier V.. and 37 other vintage soft synths for $300.. Black Friday sale 2024.. I lucked out.. also got crossgrades to pigments and FX 5, each $50..
Hah! Check out what happens to the price if you want to increase the storage! :) I still want one though.
Yes I aim to get the M4 soon as I am getting into music production but also want to edit 4K video too 🙂
Amazing - my next video coming out tomorrow is for you in that case (watch this space!)
7:30 - So, what are you waiting for? Actually, as you don't own one what are YOU waiting for?
@@JohnLloydDavis tuché
130 tracks is a nebulous thing. You have to factor what plugins are used and how many per track etc.
I think a standard needs to be formulated. Three general types; rock, electronic and score.
Rock should be SD3 with EQ/compression/saturation per individual drum, 5 guitar tracks with EQ/compression/saturation per track (quad tracked guitar and a lead guitar track) and a bass guitar with EQ/compression/saturation. Maybe go Neural DSP Friedman or something for the guitars, not sure regarding the bass. Then fab filter on the reverb and delay for the mix buss. To know where the threshold is, copy the bass and guitar only until failure.
Electronic; 5 tracks of Serum, five tracks of Kontakt with EQ/compression/saturation each track, kick 3 and mix buss similar to rock. Duplicate everything except Kick 3 until failure.
I don’t write scores, but maybe Kontakt with the same plugins as the other tests until failure?
We need a standard.
How much of the 256gb storage is actually available to the user?
Spot on!
I just found out that a $2400 M2 Macbook air with 2 TB and 24 gB of memory has bad memory and it's only been 2 years. They say we have to pay $540 to get it fixed.
I will NOT buy Apple again. If I bought a Ferrari and it had a cracked block, they would replace it. I am livid.
Imagine with the Vision Pro for producing while playing 🤯
Ye would be a world of endless possibilities - can’t wait to see what they do with it!
Great video as always 🎉
This is awesome! EXCEPT that the quality of music produced seems to have become the inverse of the ability to produce it by yourself.
It was a breakthrough at M2 pro.
THE review we needed…although an actual review with the actual computer would be waaaay better
@@Studio_4to1 true - just need my channel to grow so I can actually afford to get hold of these things to review 😅
If GarageBand is good enough for me I guess I should stick with my Mini M2 Pro, I'll buy the Mini M8!
Thank you thank you thank you
Lovely bit of kit
RAM = random access memory = all storage is equally accessible, this is important cause information stored on hard drives have to be scheduled when being accessed, so that the drive can maximize throughput, but though the data transfers quickly, the access delay for read and write plus the time it takes to fetch the storage, takes forever.. You should never put a swap partition or working folder, such as for recording to on an external drive regardless of the implementation, bandwidth or read/write delays, it won't matter cause the distance information needs to travel from drives, is like a difference of seconds to weeks for the computer's needs. Its like the difference of having a local talent versus having to put out an ad for a new musician and auditioning, tgats thescale of difference how close storage is to the processor . Also the unified memory is shared memory, that means the devices in the chip will communicate asynchronously via the unified memory.. If the CPU had-its own memory, and the GPU.. You couldn't easily perform image processing operations on images in realtime to the screen via the GPU.. The fairlight sampler had 8k ram for each voice, and each voice was a circuit board, but for this reason, all the voices couldn't share the memory, so the ram couldn't be combined and used by all the voices..
I won’t buy any personal computer that prevents me from easily upgrading the drives or RAM.
In most cases not really needed with this device. If you do want to have that option there are other choices to be find for gear.
Why would this be a better solution than a 2024 iMac All-in-One Desktop Computer? By the time you add in the price of the apple monitor, keyboard, and mouse you'll have paid more for the Mini system.
I use UDIO
I mean, it's great, but there's nothing stopping you from making pretty much any music on an M1
Yep I bought a m1 air when they came out and have never had a problem with it.
FMAC!
How does this change music? It’s just a computer.
Get even more pit of your M4 chip by ditching Logic "pro". James Zhang did a test showing that Cubase, pro tools and Reaper were far better at utilizing all cores than Logic Pro, Studio One 7, FL Studio and Ableton (which really sucks)..
Oh wow, better gather 'round all you old timers and re-record all your albums on a new mac since everything has changed.
M2 Max here. Absolutely zero reason to move to M4 for audio, at least for me. And base M4 can’t touch video editing performance of Max. Still, an incredible deal.
bro stop convincing me... am about to check outt xD
@@DJSTANBOi do it haha! You won’t be disappointed!
8:14 Yeah... that's how stupid some people are! Good remark!
The RAM and storage are insulting to say the least.
probably a dumb question but can I use my 8 year old iMac as a monitor for this mac mini?
❤
Can I play 3 whole videogames
If someone is doing work that can fit into 16gb of unified ram, then the speed of the CPU/GPU is irrelevant because you are already severely limited in capacity. Apple doesn't do anything magic with "efficient" ram. It's insane how little ram this is in 2024.
SNAPDRAGON: Hold my beer....
you dont want to put the 512GB solid state drive inside the computer, if you are storing data.. the executables and recording tracks, vm need to be inside the device..
As usual, not enough memory. Nah. Apple cult will buy it
Now if there was any way to make a living as a musician….
So it „changes music forever“ because it is more affordable than other computers who have existed before and could do the same? Wow. If that is not clickbait, what is?
Also, constantly talking about it costing 599 is ridiculous. It’s the price of the base model which no one will get because you can‘t do anything with 256gb, let alone music production.
Hands down the most preposterously titled video this year.
The computing/recording capability in the small and cost effective package is game changing for recording, but in the current environment it is still incredibly difficult to make a significant amount of income with those recordings.
2:52 … or, you are Jacob Collier.
5:34 Did you said GATEKEEPER? xD
I think I would have changed the title of the video. The M4 MAC cannot CHANGE music, however it can greatly enhance our capabilities to MAKE music. But it doesn't change music, people change music. And 256GB is not enough room to even start with music production.
You look like Jack Antonoff