The spot where one of the athletes flies out of the ring onto a group of enemies that have conveniently gathered to soften their fall could be a drinking game at this point.
The worst part is no one sells that spot anymore either. Tbh people barely sell period. They forget how to. Injuries don't mean much either. Main eventers are part timers and stories are so predictable and uninteresting because it's treated like an afterthought. They just repeat the same things over and over and rely on matches. And the NFL stuff is cringe. Why are they introducing themselves in such cringe ways. Just cut a promo.
also the spot where wrestlers are trying to get at each other in the ring and here comes all the security and one of the wrestlers breaks away and hits the flying punch at the other guy
@@brockstar1461100% agree, everyone beats up "security" guys these days, and they are worse than a WWE ref at their jobs, half a dozen of them can't even hold back an average size wrestler these days. Massively overused to the point it's got ridiculous.
When both guys stand on the top buckle and either one helps the other hit a Frankensteiner out some other flip move is another super goofy move....just dumb AF.
Just like undertaker said. Young stars grew up watching wrestling & saw what moves got the biggest pops now they all incorporate them into their 5 min matches because they want those crowed reactions. Now you don’t have 2 guys fighting it’s 2 guys taking turns doing their favourite moves
Thats what it is pretty much, a performance an art, thats how they describe it now, and it probably starts with the schools these guys go to, the problem is the culprits become the teachers and spread the nonsense it's a never ending cycle and only gonna get worse
@ it is fs evolving it may not be evolving in the way you like but it’s evolving back in the day a ddt was a finisher and now it’s a transitional move more intricate and impressive moves became finishers things change
I hate how NOBODY effin sells. Everybody's to busy trying to get their sh*t in, its all move to move to move to move w/ no rest for the impact of those moves to sink in.
Lots of people sell but they're not the ones getting pops. Austion Theory, Grayson Waller, Finn Balor, Dom (ok Dom is over but still he sells great). I'm definately forgetting a lot of the smaller ones but point still stands.
I get what you're saying, but it's absolutely false to claim that NOBODY sells. Chelsea Green and Liv Morgan can make anything look devastating, almost like it killed them.
@@alfabjornenco2922here is the basics of selling: You are not pushing yourself, you are pushing the wrestler that did the move on you. Its common knowledge. Imagine if Kenny Omega does his one winged angel and the guy immediately gets up. That move suddenly loses its impact. You need good sellers, which was the main reason why Dolph even had a career in wwe. Problem with aew is, both sides arent selling. So neither of them are getting over. "Ya, this guy did a canadian destroyer from the top of the steelcage", but if the person doesnt sell it, the audience loses the interest in the match. Well, except for the niche audience that just want to see flips
@ probably an exaggerated numbers, but I remember one year they had Goldberg, Charlotte, Roman Lashley, and Batista and they all use the spear. The super kick probably too many to name
I remember when I first saw the Canadian Destroyer and C4 --as a kid--I was blown away. Those were moves I imagined and made up in my head and thought it wasn't physically possible. Then I seen it a few more times and realized how it work by still really liked those moves since you only seen it every so often. Now? It's as normal as a rest hold. Nothing special
Cody and the Usos are the worst culprits for that, imo. They have to hit their finishers multiple times before even going for a cover now, which makes them look so weak. How is it that Cody's Cross Rhodes from 2011 was more effective than his current version?
I attended a Stevie seminar ten years ago. He was the one who taught me to lockup with some aggression. He stressed that it's not supposed to look cooperative. He was right, then and he is right, now
I think we're in an era so far removed from kayfabe that trying to make things look real is thought of as unnecesary to a lot of guys. Basically "no one thinks this is real anyway, so may as well just be over the top and pop the crowd with our neat stunt and gymnastics show"
with people saying the younger generations is more lazy, you'd think modern wrestlers would be worried about getting paralyzed for a few bucks at a gym.
That gymnastic stuff is annoying in wrestling. Not to say some can’t do it, but seems to be the majority doing acrobatic c**p that doesn’t even excite anybody much.
@@jhouse8783 Right I remember when Rey would run to the top like his life depended on it cause Kane was about to get up then Kane got up and killed him, Hell even the evan bourne RKO moment, bro was rushing.
Absolutely, self trained. These guy and women have no clue when you don’t have a proper booker that can hide the persons weakness, and highlight the good, your out there lost booking your own shit as they say
@@durden2480 Go to jail or prison or go to the streets and watch some fights or get into some. You learn so much about instinctual combat and the psychology of fighting.
People were knocking Punk v Drew as "They're fighting over a bracelet ", and I'm like, yeah and it's the most enthralling thing in wrestling right now! Simple storytelling told by professionals that take their work seriously sells tickets.
I wasn’t knocking Punk and Drew over some silly nonsense like that. There’s been sillier stuff in wrestling that I liked. The bracelet was prolly the coolest part. I thought I was knocking em cuz they absolutely suck 😂 I don’t believe Punk’s cool anymore bc of the UFC lol and I really don’t like McIntyre at all, his Jack Perry photo made me laugh out loud in tense cringe bc did he really think that was cool?? Cringeeeee and he’s just very obviously a bad actor imo 🤣 really out of touch, I just don’t care about Drew. He’s boring. Unoriginal. Lame. Punk at least used to be cool 😭 yeah that fued didn’t do it for me, but I am glad others liked what they did at least! Wasn’t for nothing then like I honestly forgot about the bracelet tho, I was too busy insulting Drew’s silly “im tough, but also pretty quirky” practiced faces or their unfortunate yet constant kayfabe breaking lmao. Wasn’t for me, i suppose i prefer even simpler storytelling told by even better professionals that take their work even more seriously than those 2 did 🥲 old school mfs
@ Yeah he let us down man you can make fun of him too who cares, he took the money lol make fun of his scrawny can’t fight havin ass tryna go back to wrestling and act like he can 😭 nah Punk retired in 2014 in my headcanon. This man ain’t the best in the world anymore, and that’s who I wanted to return. So why bother
This is why I always loved that Samoa Joe spot where he casually walks away from someone doing a move from the top rope. It's exactly what someone in real life would do and it makes his opponent look like an idiot for thinking that move would work. It' always get a big pop too!
What I did like in SNME was the finishers actually finishing matches. When people kick out of a finisher too often it is not a "finisher", but another move.
yeah, the standing Spanish Fly is even worse than the Canadian Destroyer. It makes ZERO SENSE and physics clearly won't allow it. Any move where you're not sure who actually DID the move is stupid.
My biggest gripe is the same one Mark Callaway recently put out there... that there's no such thing as a "finisher". People hit signature ending move after signature ending move and everyone kicks out of them 4, 5, 6 times... it's ridiculous and absurd at this point. Kicking out of finishers used to be reserved for top-tier stars in storyline defining matches or PLE headlining matches... and even then it was once... MAYBE twice. Nobody got up from the third Stunner... or Tombstone... or Pedigree. Nowadays, regular everyday matches on Raw/Smackdown you've got to hit Joe Midcard Jobber with 7 different finishing moves, the corner ring post, the steel steps, the timekeeper's bell, the plastic shell on the announcer's table, and Tiffany Stratton's custom pink briefcase before you can get a 3-count... it's absolutely fucking ridiculous.
Agreed. I remember being pretty annoyed when Warrior kicked out of 5 elbow drops in his Mania match against Randy. Also, I love Mach and I always kinda hated the Warrior. Ridiculous.
I remember when a normal old DDT was a finisher. It has got a bit out of control these days, so many cool looking and devastating moves only ever get a 2 count.
Jake loves it, nobody does it better than the master. Superkick also isn't sweet chin music. Where I get annoyed is when somebody kicks out of a devastating move, only to get rolled up seconds later. Also dives are extremely overused and seem like they're literally just used to set up the commercial break.
Nowadays, because of how our attention spans are all shot, a lot of wrestlers and writers plan those ahead because they know they can clip the footage and it'll go viral. People focus on the moments. These companies know it and they push for them to happen.
@@Loe_Jist Plus the rise of MMA in the 90s kind of killed that old school power style. If people wanted to watch fighting they would turn on UFC and not wrestling.
It's a mirror image of a match in a wrestling game that gives the player a checklist of mandatory spots. The entire spectacle becomes about getting those spots, checking off the list, and not about the authentic experience. Which in turn makes things feel very much more scripted.
@@Loe_Jistsee the problem with the low attention spans, is it's not helping by catering to it. I realized this when thinking about the Kai version of dragon ball. Removing all those scenes removed anticipation and suspense. It's not nearly as good of a first experience as the cut versions
Wrestling should look like fight. Yes it’s entertainment, yes they are working together. But it should look like fight. I’m old, I admit it, and wrestling wasn’t perfect in 90s, 2000s or even 80s but when I watch some of these modern matches I just shake my head. Stevie is right. It looks choreographed, and a lot of the moves are high spots that is obviously two guys working together to pull off. If a move can’t look spontaneous or like you are trying to beat a guy or woman down, it shouldn’t be done.
1. Nobody has a proper gimmick or character because everyone also has their own personal social media 2. Every move feels so planned and always feels like there is a 3,2,1 go countdown before performing a move. 3. There’s too much wrestling on - they have to fill so much TV time that they burn through story lines like nobodies business - a “long” storyline is one that lasts 2 weeks!
What pisses me off about modern wrestling is most (not all) of modern wrestlers all have the same "gimmick" of "Look at me, I'm a good wrestler, I weigh 198 pounds, I have no charisma whatsoever and no character but hey I've wrestled around the world!".
Same here. I'm not saying that we need a return to the later 80s/early 90s when everyone had a ridiculous gimmick, but they really need to make everyone on the roster more unique and different. They need better theme songs too. They are all really boring and forgettable now, and they rely too much on putting the wrestlers' names on the titantron to tell them apart. It's really noticeable during Royal Rumble's.
@@Rocket1377 I didn't think about that till now but you're right, I remember before even a decade ago a wrestler could come out during the Rumble and chances are you knew who they were due to their entrance theme. Now it's like "Generic track number 5".
The old simple question from promoters back in the day: would you pay money to see that particular attraction? I would pay money to see Chris Jericho, Roddy Piper, Austin, taker, angle, Guerrero, Mysterio, hhh, Ramon, Goldberg, big show, Kane, Jake Roberts, steamboat, punk, andre, road warriors, mcmahon, bischoff, heyman. They are attractions. Would I pay to see Kyle O'Reilly, jay white, Adam Cole. Nope. Maybe not even omega. He's really good in the ring, but there's no drama or story. It's what meltzer misses. That match rating is irrelevant. The cliffhanger moments for tuning in next time or setting up the ppv are what we remember - angle stood on a truck squirting milk I remember. Couldn't possibly remember his 3 matches before or after that moment.
Since the comment section has become a "what I hate about modern wrestling", I'm going to throw in my two cents: the size of any company's roster. Why would I care about that many people?
@matturber6890 Hell, if they just picked 5 guys we should care about and presented them as such and picked 5 guys we should hate and presented them as such, the rest of the damn roster could serve as a rotating cast of enhancement talents.
@@curatedxkris71I would normally agree, but that's unrealistic given the chance of injuries and how exhausting that schedule would be. By the end of WM this year, WWE had a bunch of top tier wrestlers out for various reasons. Rollins, Ripley, McIntyre, Flair, Punk, Lesnar, Bliss, and others in the next few months alone. 10 mainstay wrestlers would easily be cut down to 5-6 within a year.
@@Loe_Jist I'm being somewhat facetious with the numbers there for effect, but the general principle stands. More so for AEW given the lesser dates worked but there's just far too many people who don't resonate, and simply don't matter.
@@matturner6890 All a product of the Monday Night Wars. Fans didn't want to see Undertaker squash Jim Smith when over on Nitro it's Sting v. Macho Man.
WWE is too formulaic and AEW is too chaotic at times. I liked how Lucha Underground was presented a lot. It felt like more people shined with a much smaller roster.
30:06 - yeeessss please I've been screaming about this for years. How to structure and pace a PPV card feels like a lost art now to the point where noone even talks about it.
I vaguely remember listening to Jim cornette talk about will Ospreay vs ricochet’s match in aew the other month, and corny said (it’s a rough quote but something to the effect of), “as much as I respect their athleticism, where’s the wrestling?” Ospreay and ricochet did too many somersaults in their match. Wrestling is an Olympic sport (just ask Kurt angle), but the high spots and somersaults are done in gymnastics.
@@robertnapier624 The irony that gymnastics is also an Olympic sport and Simone Biles, an Olympic gymnast, is one of the most famous athletes in the world. lol
Definitely It’s the most important thing in wrestling If you had to pick one thing That would be it And they’ve completely lost it I mean I don’t even watch wrestling anymore live I just see clips And just from that I can tell you that finishers are so overdone now that it’s really a shame
I just have to admit that Stevie's take on modern wrestling is spot on. Storylines are sometimes very predictable, but in recent years it's gotten worse and worse. You don't have to be a wrestling nostalgic anymore to guess how a show is going to go, and that doesn't make it interesting for longtime fans anymore. After 34 years of being a fan, I find myself craving stuff from the 70s, 80s and 90s more often than big PPVs or PLEs. No storyline or action is interesting anymore. Keep up the good work Stevie 💪🏼 #BWO4Life
Greg the Hammer said that he was stiff and did more punching and stuff because he says in a fight you don't throw someone in the corner and then give them a suplex. I much prefer the old school matches without all the one million high spots. The high spots don't tell the stories like the old stuff does.
@@ismailmounsif1109. I am not a big fan of hammer, but I was watching and remembering his matches from later in his career. His matches were better than most of the signature move spam “matches”now.
What are your thoughts about going back to fewer premium live events? Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, King of the Ring/Money in the Bank, Summerslam, Survivor Series. That's it. It would allow for more time between events to create more meaningful storylines and build upon them instead of throwing everything at the audience the night before a PLE because they don't have the time otherwise.
I hate when one guy gets destroyed for 5 minutes, then miraculously gets up and hits one move and the other guy sells as if he got hit by a truck. It was ONE move, the dude acts like he got the 5 minute whooping
I blame Ring of Honor. Early 2010s Ring of Honor, for as fun as I admit that it was to see at the time, really brought a lot of these bad habits to the forefront.
Modern wrestling is like people playing wrestling games with finishers set to unlimited. Your finisher essentially means nothing because you're swinging it almost constantly and people are always kicking out of it. Your character tends to suffer and you fall either into the category of not being taken seriously or becoming Super Cena. But considering that the target audience of almost all media nowadays is almost exclusively 18 and under, it makes perfect sense that wrestling works this way.
Giving wrestlers full control is like having actors ad lib an entire movie. It may work one out of a hundred times... maybe... but usually you get 2016 Ghostbusters.
@@aubreysmith7355 Was that movie unscripted, allowing the actors to perform without direction or planned dialogue? I hadn't heard that. However Ghostbusters 2016 was notorious for Paul Feig allowing the actors to just go off script and do their own thing. So, no, I chose the right movie.
Yeah its like how Gotch said Harley Race was a clown and killing the business because he jumped off the top rope. Idk why but pro wrestling is a business where for some reason all the old guys feel the need to pull the ladder up from under them and trash everything the younger generations do, forgetting they were just like them at one point.
@@artirony410 except the “old guys” you’re talking about came from an industry where they were respected and treated seriously and they tend to be right. So, cry about it.
As someone who grew up on the Memphis Territory Wrestling shows, CWA/USWA, I can say that the stuff they did storywise was basically "Real Life Conflicts Sells Tickets". If someone did this to someone in Real life, this would cause a fight or a feud that would lead to a big match. It being Memphis usually meant there was a special stipulation involved. Memphis was ECW before ECW when it came to wild hard-core matches, but those where the matches that were supposed to end the feud. Those were the days.
Stevie I actually find myself agreeing with a lot of your takes! I was never a big fan, but I’m starting to become one! I love hearing the real guys speak their knowledge. I love learning. Thank you. I’ll for sure take all your wisdom with me during further training
I put a lot of this on Foley, he gave us a spectacular show with that Hell in the Cell, but since then everyone feels that they have to be near death with every move.... it makes things too dangerous and less story/wrestling oriented. Give me Hart and Perfect over flying off the titantron every day
Im surprised the "Fighting spirit spot" wasn't mentioned when Wrestler A hits a piledriver on the steel steps on Wrestler B and Wrestler B no sells it then hits their own finisher for a double down. Repeat 3x a match
It makes me sad that the whole meaning of "fighting spirit" in wrestling just got totally ruined by people who watched a lot of Japanese main event matches but didn't understand what made any of it work.
Its pretty simple. Theres not enough good mat wrestlers in wrestling. There's no Dave Taylors, Steve Regals, Fit Finlays. Proper, actual, holds. Things that adjust the pace, take it down a notch, build things up, slow it down again. There's no Jake Roberts', Rick Rudes, Ted DiBiases. Those days are long, long gone. I dont know who all the road agents/bookers are, but I blame them for not teaching these newer guys what a good match is. They all want to have these Kenta Kobashi/Misawa matches but dont actually realise those two were all-time greats and didn't have barn-burners every single time. I dip in and out of wrestling these days. A lot of people have already mentioned the awful camera work, with it all over the place to try and make it look more impactful, which it doesn't. It is Cirque de Soleil.
I mean the thing with technical mat wrestling is that the average viewer doesn't want to see that and gets bored by it lol. I mean hey even in Stevie Richards' time that was the case. You can go watch ECW matches where if a match started with grappling the wrestlers would get booed and called boring. Its why the top guys in WWE like Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Rock, Austin, Cena, Reigns, etc weren't going out and having like technical mat classics like they were Johnny Saint or Yoshiaki Fujiwara
@artirony410 Thing about all those guys was they still had solid, fundamental wrestling. Even Hogan, who gets a lot of stick, could apply proper holds and knew when to use them. Today, they don't. And fans chanting boring can get giys real heat, so heels especially could use these to rile up a crowd.
I hate the phony "boo, yay" forearm contests. I hit you then you hit me then we repeat five times. I don't know when that became a regular thing, but I hate it with a passion.
In Japan, they do that near the end of the match where both wrestlers are worn out, exhausted & running on fumes. In AEW they do it because 'that's what they do in NJPW.'
I prefer chaotic, even ugly grappling where no one seems sure what's coming next, half committed spots that are cut off by more grappling, over two people obviously cooperating through a contrived gymnastics routine. MAKE THE STUGGLE LOOK REAL!!!! Rey Mysterio and Eddie Guerrero always made it look like a fight, even with flips and springboards. I'm also getting sick of "I know strong style! Let's exchange elbows and chops in the center of the ring!" spot everyone does now. There's a time a place for that shit, and certain characters shouldn't do it at all. Context matters!
I agree with the first part of this, like there's people who do really good work where they make stuff look really stiff and uncooperative. The thing about Rey and Eddie though is just comical. The WCW cruiserweight division for me is like the biggest evidence of older wrestling fans just being blinded by nostalgia and forcing themselves to hate everything new. Those matches with guys like Rey, Eddie, Malenko, and Ultimo Dragon are some of the goofiest looking stuff I've ever seen. Like if those exact matches happened today, you'd have oldheads say it was the worst thing ever but since it happened in a time they're nostalgic for then it was perfect.
@@artirony410We all suspend our disbelief differently. I preferred guys like Bret Hart, and William Regal growing up, but I like a lot of that stuff. I still love Rey, and if Eddie worked today I would still love it. Hell, I'm a Will Osprey and Young Bucks fan. I just love variety in wrestling styles. That's why WCW was interesting. You had old guard, chain wrestlers, British, luchadores, western cruiser weights, hardcore guys, people coming off of strong style Japanese tours, all train wrecking against each other. It wasn't always pretty, but it was almost always interesting. There were still LOTS OF HORRIBLE MATCHES, just like today. All of those styles are awesome though. I can suspend my disbelief for all of them if the performer is good. I don't care if it's a single leg or a Canadian Destroyer (I prefer the former), but slow down and make moves and spots matter. Look like you're trying to win, and look like you're trying not to lose. Sure, chain wrestling is more realistic, but I still enjoy flips and shit, or the Undertaker's Oldschool. That's just Pro Wrestling. It's always going to be fake and goofy, and we still love it.
Something that really bugs me is the camera work nowadays. They're always doing these quick zooms and stuff to "sweeten" the moves, and I think it just looks ridiculous.
Yeah that damn camera. It's been there for so long. The fricking zoom makes you miss the silhouette of the wrestlers doing the bump. You can't see well and that's reverse way an impact would impact you which is so stupid to me. It would make a LOT more sense if the camera unzoomed instead. But ir's better without move. Hell, shake the camera if you really wanna try hard but please don't fricking zoom like that, i wanna see the move not the details of the fabric of those tights
Basically everything the Young Bucks are and do. Of all the big guys to come out of that era of New Japan (Adam Cole, AJ, Cody, Okada, Omega, Balor) they all had the hidden ability to act serious, except for the Bucks. If I wanted to watch you play around with your friends I would have showed up to watch you wrestle in backyards on trampolines. Trying to be the fourth wall breaking wrestlers runs dry really fast.
To be fair, 20 years ago there was way more of a culture of dudes getting hurt and just never taking time off. Its why so many wrestlers in that generation got addicted to painkillers
I remember the Adam Cole vs Buddy Matthews match where Adam Cole kicked out of a buckle bomb and stomp at one and started to hulk up and no one cared because everyone wanted Buddy to win. Selling? Who caaaaaares.
I mean, adam cole, murphy, ricochet, black, and a couple others are basically just your entertainment in-ring side of things. I don't mind fast paced wrestling, i think it can be cool. Shawn Michaels v Mysterio, Eddie tribute match, face v face. Rey vs Eddie 1997 WCW. And I don't mean even the flippy stuff, Goldberg v Brock at WM33 was fun because they knew to keep it short, a hard hitting, physical, power based match. You can have technical and nontechnical matches with no story be fun, as long as you keep them short. Goldberg used to do backflips in WCW and shrug off chairs to the dome. Lesnar used to do kipups and almost made an SSP at WM19. With a story it's also possible, but you have to tell a story in the ring. It can't just be high spots and flippy shit for the sake of high spots and flippy shit. Michaels & Angle WM21, Taker and Angle Vengeance 06, Shawn and Taker WM25 & 26, Owen v Shawn IYH6. Those are matches with technical and high spots, with a meaning and a story.
During the same match ,Adam ate a Superplex from the top rope and he got up after 3 seconds and hit Buddy with a superkick. When I was growing up the Superplex used to take a toll on the recipient and executioner of the move to the point where it would take them like a minute to get up from it.
As someone that is 32 and has watched professional wrestling for about 30 years now, I completely agree with all of this. I spent over 20 years of my life watching wrestling alone because no one else wants to ignore being able to easily see through everything. There used to be a time where wrestling was fun because it was believable. Now professional wrestling seems like it just wants "fun" like it's a half time event for something more serious.
I love how stories are handled in promos and vignettes, and some storytelling aspects in spots. But particularly in the women's division, there's just too many complicated spots that are just showy and it's no wonder so many of these women are botching so many moves. The men suffer from this too, but not as much. The men's issue is finishers not actually finishing matches anymore with the exception of occasional squash matches and Saturday Night Main Event.
On men, too many wrestlers are high flyers, but they're not taught how to do wrestling psychology, not enough slowpace action, now I understand why Vince doesn't like high flyers, for all his wrongdoing, this I kinda agree with him
People like to hate on hogan about his lack of wrestling and it is warranted a lot. But you cant deny that his leg drop drew a bigger pop than any canadian destroyers. Same with rock's elbow.
@joshpaulik699 that's the point though. Why do unnecessary stuff when it'll be over the same. Just look at edge. He's injured for doing something that was unnecessary. It added nothing and now he's not performing.
One example of good selling I'd like to point out is from AEW Full Gear where Hangman Page puts Jay White in an Angle lock in which Jay reverses it to win. Jay is still selling his leg after the match even hopping to leave the ring. When he comes out later on he's still selling his leg from eariler. It's the little things that go a long way.
Zac Sabre Junior has it right- hundred and one ways to look doninant get over without needing to even leave his feet. ZSj vs Davie Richards is one of the most fantastic matches I've seen live.
ZSJ is the worst pro wrestler alive, he murders pro wrestling more in one match than anyone else could in a career. Literally nothing he does looks real or believable, he's the ultimate example of someone making wrestling worse.
My big pet peeve is when a wrestler is going to the top rope, and the opponent on the mat scoots themselves around into the perfect position to take the move. You can find one instance in almost every show. Wrestler is so beat down he can’t get out of the way, but he’ll scoot his unconscious body a full half turn to be in just the right spot to get hit.
The WWE is overproduced. There should only be two 2 hours show per week (Raw and Smackdown), and one 1 hour show per week (NXT). Once a month can be a 3 hour PPV, with Wmania being a 4 hour extravaganza.
It's also overproduced in that the matches are fully scripted, like a set of stunts in a movie. It's also about as believable. Brett Hart liked to work out the whole match, but he also knew how to improvise if a match wasn't working or if something went wrong. He had great respect for wrestlers who just wanted to know the opening and the finish. How they got from one to the other depended on the audience.
@@michaelbobic7135 Do you think outlining the broad strokes, and say 3-5 important spots, would be a good balance, with everything else called in the ring?
I do agree kicking out of finishers happen way too much. I watched the Taker Michaels WM over the weekend and the storytelling in the ring and the pacing made it elite. Now a finisher is hit quick and they kick out predictably. It just feels rushed and forced.
It's all like playing Smackdown Here Comes The Pain now. Everyone gets up and kicks out of everything. In the games it is fine. But irl it is crazy lol.
I love this, its probably the closest to how I feel about modern wrestling encapsulated. Personally my biggest pet peeve is something you touched on briefly: the "deer in headlights" moment. When a spot doesn't go as planned, or someone is out of position, or whatever it is goes wrong, and the wrestler just looks completely panicked and completely drops character. It's gotten to the point that probably the number one thing that makes me rate a wrestler highly these days is if they can get through a blown spot and still look natural doing it. It seems to be extremely rare. Nothing takes me out of a match faster than seeing wrestlers awkwardly reset to re-do something, or still sell the same despite a move barely connecting or entirely missing. I feel like kayfabe being so plainly out-of-the-bag now probably has a lot to do with it. I don't think wrestlers feel like they have anything to "protect" anymore, so if things go badly their priority is to stick to the script instead of improvising to protect the reality of the match. I had no idea that wrestlers were so beholden to moment-by-moment calls from backstage through the refs earpiece, though, that's insane. No wonder they look so lost when they have to think for themselves. I wish I knew exactly watch Otis match you were referring to where you didn't do that. I'd really like to see if it feels more like the kind of wrestling I used to love.
@Loe_Jist Of course, because you're allowed to protect yourself at all times in MMA, if you get hurt it's on you, it's still messed up but in this PowerSlap circus! It's guaranteed you get brain damage.
@@Loe_JistAnd he’s hard glazing Jon Jones over more beloved fighters despite him being a worse PR nightmare than New Jack and Matt Bourne. Oh and the list of people he’s gone out of his way to bury is just as long as Vince’s except probably worse in some cases.
@@rayvenkman2087 Connor McGregor's criminal record, controversies, and list of allegations and lawsuits alone are all WAY more than any wrestler McMahon may have covered for back in the day.
This episode really spoke to me. It drives home just how far the psychology aspect of the business has fallen. The simple fact is, everything needs to make sense, even if it is outlandish, and down to the smallest detail.
I like wrestling but it’s the same spots in every match that gets me.. everyone piled together waiting for someone to jump on them, finishers being kicked out constantly, no selling big moves, same movesets of superkicks and spears on a dozen guys and the setups for a big spot is way to choreographed that you know what is coming well in advance.
WWE has the same match throughout every show. Super kick. Table spot. Ring steps. Spear. Etc. It absolutely looks fake. And yet, today's WWE's fans eat that shit up because they either don't know no better or have very low expectations of the in-ring product.
Everything mentioned here is spot on. Also modern day wrestling is just 1 style (high flying) what happened to power, technical, grappler, submission specialist and so on
Something I hate is every match is won with a finisher. People will clothesline someone and pin them for 2, why did they think they'd win with a clothesline? Everyone knows the match will end with a finisher or interference. Why even have near falls? They've got so much TV now, why can't Cody Rhodes have a warm up match against a lower card guy and win with a clothesline, or KO with a DDT. Keep the finishers for big matches when youre on equal footing and need something extra.
wrestling school content would be AWESOME!! maybe a collab with some current/former wrestlers who have schools or are trainers etc. love seeing the inner workings of the sport and could potentially encourage more people to give it a shot
As a notable member of the insanely flippy and neck-bumpy Australian backyard scene that wil ospreay grew up obsessed with, I apologise. Our influence definitely harmed pro wrestling, but we did advance moves in general and grew the pro scene in Australia back to something respectable. Ps: Kyle Fletcher and Robbie Eagles come from our old yard scene. Ive wrestled them both. All on my channel.
I loved watching those videos back when they first started hitting the net. I recognized it was young people trying to create a whole new scene, all on their own. I could excuse the horrible psychology and story telling due to the lack of experience and no veterans to help. All that flippy shit can still be great in the right context, but unfortunately, many people just do fast shit nonstop, because they think it looks cool. No spots get to breath, no moments stand out, selling goes out the window...
@@badladyami See you say that, but everytime an Aussie signs with one of the big companies, everyone pretends to know all about Australia Hint, we don't actually put prawns on the barbie
That part about struggle hits so hard. I love watching wrestling where BOTH wrestlers are fighting for the application, or escape of even the smallest moves or holds. Like one wrestler going for a Boston Crab, the other kicks and turns to remain on their back, the first wrestler wrenches deep etc. Moves feel a lot more earned that way and the receiving wrestler comes off as less of a zombie in the way they aren't just "Letting it happen" which can and definitely has come off as phony.
I hate that primary finishers aren't protected anymore. I'm fine with kick outs on secondary finishers or stopping a setup of a primary finisher but these two, three finishers with kick outs is making the finishers seem less iconic. Maybe a finisher in a weaken state or done quickly could be understandable but a finisher that the superstar has time to setup and do it completely just needs to a done deal. The only exception is outside interference or a ref not able to count the pin.
1. idk I like the spanish fly >.> 2. I think we have reached a point where wrestling must (and will) evolve. moves and exchanges are getting more and more outlandish and spectacular, but lose the believability. that's one thing that I think the new young wrestlers will work towards improving/fixing. being able to do those flashy moves but do them in a way that looks "optimized". like it doesn't need a convoluted setup or obvious help from the opponent. rey mysterio set a new standard in the late 90s and throughout his career. his stuff "made sense". I think in a few years a new standard will be reached. no more waiting 10 seconds to catch someone, no more cooperating with the opponent so he can hit you with a complicated move... this quote 7:12 perfectly describes what I'm saying. as wrestlers get more athletic, I think this can be achieved
Love it Stevie. Shouldn’t have the same match one first that you would have on 6th. Big part of what’s missing in wrestling today is psychology and structure like that
They make it so complicated today. 2 people have a scheduled match cuz winners get closer to a belt match. Grudges develop based on outcomes and decent promos. Fan favorites headline shows. That's it.
True, I did over exaggerate but for a professional wrestler it's about right, some of these modern wrestlers aren't ready for tv imo, unless they introduce a wcw style cruiserweight division. I'm not saying everyone needs to be Scott Steiner but at least have someone who looks bigger than the average audience member.
Part of what made WCW work in the late '90s was that it really did build toward the main event. Every Nitro mostly started with more of a wrestling showcase in the first hour with the cruiserweights putting on a good match or two, sometimes to be interrupted by something teasing later action. It would then move into the TV and US title pictures as well as the tag team scene, and finish with segments for the top guys. It built toward what everyone wanted to see.
You don’t need cliff hangers. You need compelling story and characters that are ultimately building to a finale. It’s just live theatre when you think about it.
You guys are absolutely right about the same matches and movies. It's to the point where; when I bought the WWE 2K games, I made entire promotions and rosters that had entirely different movesets. I remember in 2K19 especially, when making movesets; I started from the finisher and worked backwards. I had moves that made sense and targeted the part of the body to make it more impactful. It certainly didn't seem like a random cluster of moves then a finish like the main in game roster. I steered clear of three moves though for my entire roster because of the amount of these three I saw and still see throughout wrestling; and that's suicide dives, DDTs, and super kicks. There was one exception though, and that exception was a heel who loved WWE so I gave him the most WWE moveset ever. In the storyline aka my head canon he was trying to be signed to WWE so he was the only one with WWE logos and branding. I believe I either gave him a DDT or some variation on the super kick as his "finisher" if not used one as "signature" and the other as a "finisher".
The biggest thing I’ve noticed in recent years with wrestling is spot setups. Either taking too long or the constant “checks” before execution. It’s jarring having a wrestling persona having to jump in and out of character because of it. I understand the risks and making sure it’s executed correctly but it can take you right out of the moment.
This is an underrated point. Every match now you can see the wrestlers going from point A to B to C to D exactly as they planned it. They think only the moves matter, when in fact its what you doing in between the moves that matters most. When the pace of the match is dynamic and has tempo changes it feels organic. When they're just racing their way from point A to D there's no time for the audience to digest any of what's happened so the the next spot is just as forgettable as the last.
I saw your comment after I made a very similar one. Anyway, I stopped watching long before the quick zooms, and it looks like I'll never go back because of them.
Seriously. The dude is delusional, sad thing is he’s a real asshole behind the scenes I’ve heard so many stories about Stevie throwing temper tantrums when he doesn’t get shit his way. He’s still a man child
The spot where one of the athletes flies out of the ring onto a group of enemies that have conveniently gathered to soften their fall could be a drinking game at this point.
The worst part is no one sells that spot anymore either. Tbh people barely sell period. They forget how to. Injuries don't mean much either. Main eventers are part timers and stories are so predictable and uninteresting because it's treated like an afterthought. They just repeat the same things over and over and rely on matches. And the NFL stuff is cringe. Why are they introducing themselves in such cringe ways. Just cut a promo.
I hate that. When they just stand together for for like 30 seconds straight. No punches thrown or anything. It is the goofiest thing ever
also the spot where wrestlers are trying to get at each other in the ring and here comes all the security and one of the wrestlers breaks away and hits the flying punch at the other guy
@@brockstar1461100% agree, everyone beats up "security" guys these days, and they are worse than a WWE ref at their jobs, half a dozen of them can't even hold back an average size wrestler these days. Massively overused to the point it's got ridiculous.
When both guys stand on the top buckle and either one helps the other hit a Frankensteiner out some other flip move is another super goofy move....just dumb AF.
Just like undertaker said. Young stars grew up watching wrestling & saw what moves got the biggest pops now they all incorporate them into their 5 min matches because they want those crowed reactions. Now you don’t have 2 guys fighting it’s 2 guys taking turns doing their favourite moves
at the same time: Dropkick and Neckbteaker used to be finishers. It's stuff that happened back in the day already.
Thats what it is pretty much, a performance an art, thats how they describe it now, and it probably starts with the schools these guys go to, the problem is the culprits become the teachers and spread the nonsense it's a never ending cycle and only gonna get worse
everything changes man
time never stops and everything has to evolve
that’s the same for wrestling
@@showtime1235. Except it’s not evolving, it’s just dropped the pretense of wrestling or a fight.
@ it is fs evolving
it may not be evolving in the way you like
but it’s evolving
back in the day a ddt was a finisher and now it’s a transitional move
more intricate and impressive moves became finishers
things change
I hate how NOBODY effin sells. Everybody's to busy trying to get their sh*t in, its all move to move to move to move w/ no rest for the impact of those moves to sink in.
They "SuperHeroes"😂
Lots of people sell but they're not the ones getting pops. Austion Theory, Grayson Waller, Finn Balor, Dom (ok Dom is over but still he sells great). I'm definately forgetting a lot of the smaller ones but point still stands.
Fr, I feel like they just refuse to sell because they'll get Ziggled if they sell too well. 😂
I get what you're saying, but it's absolutely false to claim that NOBODY sells. Chelsea Green and Liv Morgan can make anything look devastating, almost like it killed them.
@@alfabjornenco2922here is the basics of selling: You are not pushing yourself, you are pushing the wrestler that did the move on you. Its common knowledge. Imagine if Kenny Omega does his one winged angel and the guy immediately gets up. That move suddenly loses its impact. You need good sellers, which was the main reason why Dolph even had a career in wwe. Problem with aew is, both sides arent selling. So neither of them are getting over. "Ya, this guy did a canadian destroyer from the top of the steelcage", but if the person doesnt sell it, the audience loses the interest in the match. Well, except for the niche audience that just want to see flips
29 wrestlers use the spear and 49 use the super kick thats what really grinds my gears
Damn! That much? Gross
@ probably an exaggerated numbers, but I remember one year they had Goldberg, Charlotte, Roman Lashley, and Batista and they all use the spear.
The super kick probably too many to name
And at least 30 use a Canadian destroyer as a basic weak grapple move! 😂
The super kick isn't even a finisher anymore, like the usos us it like 5 times before someone even falls down
I hate superkick parties
Well, Stevie, it's like Dusty Rhodes said, "Do not do shit you don't know how to do!"
I miss the days when Canadian Destroyers and C4's were considered absurd. Now they're as normal as a DDT
In the context of wrestling, at least. They're still absurd 🤷🏻♂️
@@CeemPlaythat was absurd too.
@@CeemPlayin the 90s a pile driver was a finisher
@@DaveReece-u4b And a transitional move
I remember when I first saw the Canadian Destroyer and C4 --as a kid--I was blown away. Those were moves I imagined and made up in my head and thought it wasn't physically possible. Then I seen it a few more times and realized how it work by still really liked those moves since you only seen it every so often. Now? It's as normal as a rest hold. Nothing special
I remember when finishers mattered
This, now every match is Indies version of Rock vs Austin at WM17 where everyone kicks out finishers.
Cody and the Usos are the worst culprits for that, imo. They have to hit their finishers multiple times before even going for a cover now, which makes them look so weak. How is it that Cody's Cross Rhodes from 2011 was more effective than his current version?
@@Rocket1377 you missed out Seth "Freakin' Goof" Rollins.
Blame the Rock. He started the trend.
The Super Kick Remembers "in sweet chin music"
Dana White "I'm not watching that silly crap, I've got a slap tournament coming up. "😂
if he's not busy getting involved in a brawl with his wife/girlfriend.
And he was just talking about date night with his wife!
At least it's full contact 🤷🏻♂️
@@FilmThePoliceFTP Unguarded, it's really stupid.
@@FilmThePoliceFTP Full contact and full retard
I attended a Stevie seminar ten years ago. He was the one who taught me to lockup with some aggression. He stressed that it's not supposed to look cooperative. He was right, then and he is right, now
never listen to guys that never drew a dime. Stevie was a jobber
@@Slacker4Life3we should listen to a loser on the internet who’s never wrestled. Agreed.
@@Slacker4Life3 Jobbers make the best trainers
@@Slacker4Life3 That doesn’t make what he says any less true.
@@Slacker4Life3 Someone has to eat pins. Derp.
I think we're in an era so far removed from kayfabe that trying to make things look real is thought of as unnecesary to a lot of guys. Basically "no one thinks this is real anyway, so may as well just be over the top and pop the crowd with our neat stunt and gymnastics show"
with people saying the younger generations is more lazy, you'd think modern wrestlers would be worried about getting paralyzed for a few bucks at a gym.
That gymnastic stuff is annoying in wrestling. Not to say some can’t do it, but seems to be the majority doing acrobatic c**p that doesn’t even excite anybody much.
@@takerdust. People say that about every generation. GenZ will say the same to those following them.
Those are precisely the type of clowns who don't fucking belong in the business.
I love watching movies that don’t use green screen or edit out crash pads. I know it’s fake so it doesn’t matter 😂
The obviously cooperating on the top turnbuckle absolutely kills me. I hate it
And it takes forever
Marks be like: "5 STARS! RICOCHET IS THE LEGEND AND FUTURE HALL OF FAMER!" What a sad age.
@@jhouse8783 Right I remember when Rey would run to the top like his life depended on it cause Kane was about to get up then Kane got up and killed him, Hell even the evan bourne RKO moment, bro was rushing.
Right, like who in reality would sit up there for so long and let their opponent suplex them off.
Wrestling these days lacks common sense, People do moves for the sake of it
Absolutely, self trained. These guy and women have no clue when you don’t have a proper booker that can hide the persons weakness, and highlight the good, your out there lost booking your own shit as they say
@@durden2480 Go to jail or prison or go to the streets and watch some fights or get into some. You learn so much about instinctual combat and the psychology of fighting.
There's no soul behind moves, and that's the whole point in pro wrestling.
@@gamesps9562 It's very nuanced, and that's when being artistic and creatively inclined comes in.
People were knocking Punk v Drew as "They're fighting over a bracelet ", and I'm like, yeah and it's the most enthralling thing in wrestling right now!
Simple storytelling told by professionals that take their work seriously sells tickets.
It's because PG Punk is fragile and made of glass 🥂😂😂
Agreed
I wasn’t knocking Punk and Drew over some silly nonsense like that. There’s been sillier stuff in wrestling that I liked. The bracelet was prolly the coolest part. I thought I was knocking em cuz they absolutely suck 😂 I don’t believe Punk’s cool anymore bc of the UFC lol and I really don’t like McIntyre at all, his Jack Perry photo made me laugh out loud in tense cringe bc did he really think that was cool?? Cringeeeee and he’s just very obviously a bad actor imo 🤣 really out of touch, I just don’t care about Drew. He’s boring. Unoriginal. Lame. Punk at least used to be cool 😭 yeah that fued didn’t do it for me, but I am glad others liked what they did at least! Wasn’t for nothing then
like I honestly forgot about the bracelet tho, I was too busy insulting Drew’s silly “im tough, but also pretty quirky” practiced faces or their unfortunate yet constant kayfabe breaking lmao. Wasn’t for me, i suppose i prefer even simpler storytelling told by even better professionals that take their work even more seriously than those 2 did 🥲 old school mfs
@@thelettern You have to be sarcastic over the UFC.
@ Yeah he let us down man you can make fun of him too who cares, he took the money lol make fun of his scrawny can’t fight havin ass tryna go back to wrestling and act like he can 😭 nah Punk retired in 2014 in my headcanon. This man ain’t the best in the world anymore, and that’s who I wanted to return. So why bother
This is why I always loved that Samoa Joe spot where he casually walks away from someone doing a move from the top rope. It's exactly what someone in real life would do and it makes his opponent look like an idiot for thinking that move would work. It' always get a big pop too!
What I did like in SNME was the finishers actually finishing matches. When people kick out of a finisher too often it is not a "finisher", but another move.
yeah, the standing Spanish Fly is even worse than the Canadian Destroyer. It makes ZERO SENSE and physics clearly won't allow it. Any move where you're not sure who actually DID the move is stupid.
yeah like doing it off the turnbuckle at least sorta makes sense but the standing ones look so weird
basically the lame choreographed c4
My biggest gripe is the same one Mark Callaway recently put out there... that there's no such thing as a "finisher". People hit signature ending move after signature ending move and everyone kicks out of them 4, 5, 6 times... it's ridiculous and absurd at this point.
Kicking out of finishers used to be reserved for top-tier stars in storyline defining matches or PLE headlining matches... and even then it was once... MAYBE twice. Nobody got up from the third Stunner... or Tombstone... or Pedigree.
Nowadays, regular everyday matches on Raw/Smackdown you've got to hit Joe Midcard Jobber with 7 different finishing moves, the corner ring post, the steel steps, the timekeeper's bell, the plastic shell on the announcer's table, and Tiffany Stratton's custom pink briefcase before you can get a 3-count... it's absolutely fucking ridiculous.
Razor/Scott Hall only ever had his Razors/Outsiders Edge kicked out of ONCE during the entire time he used it!
To be fair, the pedigree was one of the worst weakest looking shitty finishing moves right up there was hickinbottom's superkick.
Remember when Sid kicked out of the leg drop ? Absolute insane moment.
Agreed. I remember being pretty annoyed when Warrior kicked out of 5 elbow drops in his Mania match against Randy.
Also, I love Mach and I always kinda hated the Warrior.
Ridiculous.
@Hunkzilla the funny thing he wasn't supposed to. Papa Shango was late to break it up
I remember when a normal old DDT was a finisher. It has got a bit out of control these days, so many cool looking and devastating moves only ever get a 2 count.
Jake loves it, nobody does it better than the master.
Superkick also isn't sweet chin music.
Where I get annoyed is when somebody kicks out of a devastating move, only to get rolled up seconds later.
Also dives are extremely overused and seem like they're literally just used to set up the commercial break.
It's all about spots, nothing else, and I hate it.
Nowadays, because of how our attention spans are all shot, a lot of wrestlers and writers plan those ahead because they know they can clip the footage and it'll go viral. People focus on the moments. These companies know it and they push for them to happen.
@@Loe_Jist Plus the rise of MMA in the 90s kind of killed that old school power style. If people wanted to watch fighting they would turn on UFC and not wrestling.
It's a mirror image of a match in a wrestling game that gives the player a checklist of mandatory spots.
The entire spectacle becomes about getting those spots, checking off the list, and not about the authentic experience. Which in turn makes things feel very much more scripted.
More spots than a Dalmatian.
@@Loe_Jistsee the problem with the low attention spans, is it's not helping by catering to it.
I realized this when thinking about the Kai version of dragon ball. Removing all those scenes removed anticipation and suspense. It's not nearly as good of a first experience as the cut versions
Wrestling should look like fight. Yes it’s entertainment, yes they are working together. But it should look like fight. I’m old, I admit it, and wrestling wasn’t perfect in 90s, 2000s or even 80s but when I watch some of these modern matches I just shake my head.
Stevie is right. It looks choreographed, and a lot of the moves are high spots that is obviously two guys working together to pull off.
If a move can’t look spontaneous or like you are trying to beat a guy or woman down, it shouldn’t be done.
1. Nobody has a proper gimmick or character because everyone also has their own personal social media
2. Every move feels so planned and always feels like there is a 3,2,1 go countdown before performing a move.
3. There’s too much wrestling on - they have to fill so much TV time that they burn through story lines like nobodies business - a “long” storyline is one that lasts 2 weeks!
What pisses me off about modern wrestling is most (not all) of modern wrestlers all have the same "gimmick" of "Look at me, I'm a good wrestler, I weigh 198 pounds, I have no charisma whatsoever and no character but hey I've wrestled around the world!".
Same here. I'm not saying that we need a return to the later 80s/early 90s when everyone had a ridiculous gimmick, but they really need to make everyone on the roster more unique and different. They need better theme songs too. They are all really boring and forgettable now, and they rely too much on putting the wrestlers' names on the titantron to tell them apart. It's really noticeable during Royal Rumble's.
@@Rocket1377 I didn't think about that till now but you're right, I remember before even a decade ago a wrestler could come out during the Rumble and chances are you knew who they were due to their entrance theme. Now it's like "Generic track number 5".
The old simple question from promoters back in the day: would you pay money to see that particular attraction? I would pay money to see Chris Jericho, Roddy Piper, Austin, taker, angle, Guerrero, Mysterio, hhh, Ramon, Goldberg, big show, Kane, Jake Roberts, steamboat, punk, andre, road warriors, mcmahon, bischoff, heyman. They are attractions. Would I pay to see Kyle O'Reilly, jay white, Adam Cole. Nope. Maybe not even omega. He's really good in the ring, but there's no drama or story. It's what meltzer misses. That match rating is irrelevant. The cliffhanger moments for tuning in next time or setting up the ppv are what we remember - angle stood on a truck squirting milk I remember. Couldn't possibly remember his 3 matches before or after that moment.
Everybody is CM Punk now.
Now everyone is CM Punk...and I didn't even like the original CM Punk.
Since the comment section has become a "what I hate about modern wrestling", I'm going to throw in my two cents: the size of any company's roster. Why would I care about that many people?
No enhancement talent either. It used to be a thing to have a local guy walk down the ramp to get squashed, people loved it! You never see it now.
@matturber6890 Hell, if they just picked 5 guys we should care about and presented them as such and picked 5 guys we should hate and presented them as such, the rest of the damn roster could serve as a rotating cast of enhancement talents.
@@curatedxkris71I would normally agree, but that's unrealistic given the chance of injuries and how exhausting that schedule would be. By the end of WM this year, WWE had a bunch of top tier wrestlers out for various reasons. Rollins, Ripley, McIntyre, Flair, Punk, Lesnar, Bliss, and others in the next few months alone. 10 mainstay wrestlers would easily be cut down to 5-6 within a year.
@@Loe_Jist I'm being somewhat facetious with the numbers there for effect, but the general principle stands. More so for AEW given the lesser dates worked but there's just far too many people who don't resonate, and simply don't matter.
@@matturner6890 All a product of the Monday Night Wars. Fans didn't want to see Undertaker squash Jim Smith when over on Nitro it's Sting v. Macho Man.
WWE is too formulaic and AEW is too chaotic at times. I liked how Lucha Underground was presented a lot. It felt like more people shined with a much smaller roster.
Its either no sells or Superkick superkick superkick 😂
Usos, Usos, Usos, Usos, Usos
Or somebody no sells the superkick! 😂
They need a wrestler that says ok you didn't sell, lock up again and say listen this it you sell this move or I will make you sell..
This is why Gunther is one of the best wrestlers in the world. He gets it...
Never realized how good SR was at his job, now he’s passing his knowledge in an amazing way. Gained a sub & an even bigger fan 👍🏼
makes two of us! This is one of my all time favorite youtube channels, not even just wrestling based, just in general.
World Junior Heavy Weight Championship and World Middle Weight Championship and World Heavy Weight Championship
30:06 - yeeessss please I've been screaming about this for years. How to structure and pace a PPV card feels like a lost art now to the point where noone even talks about it.
The acrobats, there's no story in the fight, just endless high spots with somersaults
I vaguely remember listening to Jim cornette talk about will Ospreay vs ricochet’s match in aew the other month, and corny said (it’s a rough quote but something to the effect of), “as much as I respect their athleticism, where’s the wrestling?” Ospreay and ricochet did too many somersaults in their match. Wrestling is an Olympic sport (just ask Kurt angle), but the high spots and somersaults are done in gymnastics.
@@robertnapier624 The irony that gymnastics is also an Olympic sport and Simone Biles, an Olympic gymnast, is one of the most famous athletes in the world. lol
@@shameronstar7220 Who?
Protecting of the finisher has been dead for a long time! And to me, that’s a huge part of a talent’s character!
Definitely It’s the most important thing in wrestling If you had to pick one thing That would be it And they’ve completely lost it I mean I don’t even watch wrestling anymore live I just see clips And just from that I can tell you that finishers are so overdone now that it’s really a shame
To be fair, when Lesnar beat Samoa Joe with one F5, the fans got pissed that Joe was put away with just one finisher
I just have to admit that Stevie's take on modern wrestling is spot on. Storylines are sometimes very predictable, but in recent years it's gotten worse and worse. You don't have to be a wrestling nostalgic anymore to guess how a show is going to go, and that doesn't make it interesting for longtime fans anymore. After 34 years of being a fan, I find myself craving stuff from the 70s, 80s and 90s more often than big PPVs or PLEs. No storyline or action is interesting anymore.
Keep up the good work Stevie 💪🏼 #BWO4Life
Greg the Hammer said that he was stiff and did more punching and stuff because he says in a fight you don't throw someone in the corner and then give them a suplex. I much prefer the old school matches without all the one million high spots. The high spots don't tell the stories like the old stuff does.
Greg the Hammer was boring
@@FinancialHealth-ku1rybetter than most wrestlers today lol
@@ismailmounsif1109. I am not a big fan of hammer, but I was watching and remembering his matches from later in his career. His matches were better than most of the signature move spam “matches”now.
@@robertt9342 100% check his classic feud with Roni Garvin or Tito Santana it’s awesome
They've absolutely killed finishers
It’s been like this for like 15 years
What are your thoughts about going back to fewer premium live events? Royal Rumble, Wrestlemania, King of the Ring/Money in the Bank, Summerslam, Survivor Series. That's it. It would allow for more time between events to create more meaningful storylines and build upon them instead of throwing everything at the audience the night before a PLE because they don't have the time otherwise.
I'd say Backlash is necessary.
Even if they did that it's watered down because they have Queen of the ring, women's Royal Rumble, etc.
You can build storylines across multiple PPVs.
I spoke about this years ago. Al Snow was telling us about the 7 deadly steps. And Refs calling the entire match. 😂😂😂
I hate when one guy gets destroyed for 5 minutes, then miraculously gets up and hits one move and the other guy sells as if he got hit by a truck. It was ONE move, the dude acts like he got the 5 minute whooping
I blame Ring of Honor. Early 2010s Ring of Honor, for as fun as I admit that it was to see at the time, really brought a lot of these bad habits to the forefront.
Spanish Fly is one of the dumbest moves ever to try and make sense to any audience
I've only seen it now and it looks very coo, especially if it's a finisher
Modern wrestling is like people playing wrestling games with finishers set to unlimited.
Your finisher essentially means nothing because you're swinging it almost constantly and people are always kicking out of it. Your character tends to suffer and you fall either into the category of not being taken seriously or becoming Super Cena.
But considering that the target audience of almost all media nowadays is almost exclusively 18 and under, it makes perfect sense that wrestling works this way.
Giving wrestlers full control is like having actors ad lib an entire movie. It may work one out of a hundred times... maybe... but usually you get 2016 Ghostbusters.
Usually you get No Holds Barred would better fit your comparison to movies.
@@aubreysmith7355 Was that movie unscripted, allowing the actors to perform without direction or planned dialogue? I hadn't heard that. However Ghostbusters 2016 was notorious for Paul Feig allowing the actors to just go off script and do their own thing. So, no, I chose the right movie.
@@DocJerky Ha, you definitely chose the correct movie.
@@DocJerky I mean I'm sure a lot of dialog was improvised but its not like the plot of the movie itself would've been
@@aubreysmith7355and that my dear, is why it’s best to just keep your mouth shut.
The irony is that ECW is responsible for most of this shit
Yeah its like how Gotch said Harley Race was a clown and killing the business because he jumped off the top rope. Idk why but pro wrestling is a business where for some reason all the old guys feel the need to pull the ladder up from under them and trash everything the younger generations do, forgetting they were just like them at one point.
@@artirony410 except the “old guys” you’re talking about came from an industry where they were respected and treated seriously and they tend to be right. So, cry about it.
As someone who grew up on the Memphis Territory Wrestling shows, CWA/USWA, I can say that the stuff they did storywise was basically "Real Life Conflicts Sells Tickets". If someone did this to someone in Real life, this would cause a fight or a feud that would lead to a big match. It being Memphis usually meant there was a special stipulation involved. Memphis was ECW before ECW when it came to wild hard-core matches, but those where the matches that were supposed to end the feud. Those were the days.
Stevie I actually find myself agreeing with a lot of your takes! I was never a big fan, but I’m starting to become one! I love hearing the real guys speak their knowledge. I love learning. Thank you. I’ll for sure take all your wisdom with me during further training
I put a lot of this on Foley, he gave us a spectacular show with that Hell in the Cell, but since then everyone feels that they have to be near death with every move.... it makes things too dangerous and less story/wrestling oriented. Give me Hart and Perfect over flying off the titantron every day
Is it too much to ask all current wrestlers to mimic a Brett Hart vs Mr Perfect match, just to get an idea of what really works?
Im surprised the "Fighting spirit spot" wasn't mentioned when Wrestler A hits a piledriver on the steel steps on Wrestler B and Wrestler B no sells it then hits their own finisher for a double down. Repeat 3x a match
It makes me sad that the whole meaning of "fighting spirit" in wrestling just got totally ruined by people who watched a lot of Japanese main event matches but didn't understand what made any of it work.
Its pretty simple.
Theres not enough good mat wrestlers in wrestling. There's no Dave Taylors, Steve Regals, Fit Finlays. Proper, actual, holds. Things that adjust the pace, take it down a notch, build things up, slow it down again. There's no Jake Roberts', Rick Rudes, Ted DiBiases. Those days are long, long gone. I dont know who all the road agents/bookers are, but I blame them for not teaching these newer guys what a good match is.
They all want to have these Kenta Kobashi/Misawa matches but dont actually realise those two were all-time greats and didn't have barn-burners every single time.
I dip in and out of wrestling these days. A lot of people have already mentioned the awful camera work, with it all over the place to try and make it look more impactful, which it doesn't. It is Cirque de Soleil.
I mean the thing with technical mat wrestling is that the average viewer doesn't want to see that and gets bored by it lol. I mean hey even in Stevie Richards' time that was the case. You can go watch ECW matches where if a match started with grappling the wrestlers would get booed and called boring. Its why the top guys in WWE like Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Rock, Austin, Cena, Reigns, etc weren't going out and having like technical mat classics like they were Johnny Saint or Yoshiaki Fujiwara
@artirony410 Thing about all those guys was they still had solid, fundamental wrestling. Even Hogan, who gets a lot of stick, could apply proper holds and knew when to use them. Today, they don't. And fans chanting boring can get giys real heat, so heels especially could use these to rile up a crowd.
@@Soccerates I mean the thing is, it didn't get those guys heat lol, it just buried the match
I hate the phony "boo, yay" forearm contests. I hit you then you hit me then we repeat five times. I don't know when that became a regular thing, but I hate it with a passion.
Triple H v. Cena on WM in 2006
Slapping would make more sense.
In Japan, they do that near the end of the match where both wrestlers are worn out, exhausted & running on fumes. In AEW they do it because 'that's what they do in NJPW.'
💯 always a yawn-fest time waster..lol
They hit fifty moves for no reason rather than one move for the right reason
I prefer chaotic, even ugly grappling where no one seems sure what's coming next, half committed spots that are cut off by more grappling, over two people obviously cooperating through a contrived gymnastics routine. MAKE THE STUGGLE LOOK REAL!!!! Rey Mysterio and Eddie Guerrero always made it look like a fight, even with flips and springboards.
I'm also getting sick of "I know strong style! Let's exchange elbows and chops in the center of the ring!" spot everyone does now. There's a time a place for that shit, and certain characters shouldn't do it at all. Context matters!
I agree with the first part of this, like there's people who do really good work where they make stuff look really stiff and uncooperative. The thing about Rey and Eddie though is just comical. The WCW cruiserweight division for me is like the biggest evidence of older wrestling fans just being blinded by nostalgia and forcing themselves to hate everything new. Those matches with guys like Rey, Eddie, Malenko, and Ultimo Dragon are some of the goofiest looking stuff I've ever seen. Like if those exact matches happened today, you'd have oldheads say it was the worst thing ever but since it happened in a time they're nostalgic for then it was perfect.
@@artirony410We all suspend our disbelief differently. I preferred guys like Bret Hart, and William Regal growing up, but I like a lot of that stuff. I still love Rey, and if Eddie worked today I would still love it. Hell, I'm a Will Osprey and Young Bucks fan. I just love variety in wrestling styles. That's why WCW was interesting. You had old guard, chain wrestlers, British, luchadores, western cruiser weights, hardcore guys, people coming off of strong style Japanese tours, all train wrecking against each other. It wasn't always pretty, but it was almost always interesting. There were still LOTS OF HORRIBLE MATCHES, just like today. All of those styles are awesome though. I can suspend my disbelief for all of them if the performer is good. I don't care if it's a single leg or a Canadian Destroyer (I prefer the former), but slow down and make moves and spots matter. Look like you're trying to win, and look like you're trying not to lose. Sure, chain wrestling is more realistic, but I still enjoy flips and shit, or the Undertaker's Oldschool. That's just Pro Wrestling. It's always going to be fake and goofy, and we still love it.
Something that really bugs me is the camera work nowadays. They're always doing these quick zooms and stuff to "sweeten" the moves, and I think it just looks ridiculous.
Always hated that, the bounce zoom. I actually think it lessens the impact of the move as you can't see what's even going on
Yeah that damn camera. It's been there for so long. The fricking zoom makes you miss the silhouette of the wrestlers doing the bump. You can't see well and that's reverse way an impact would impact you which is so stupid to me. It would make a LOT more sense if the camera unzoomed instead. But ir's better without move.
Hell, shake the camera if you really wanna try hard but please don't fricking zoom like that, i wanna see the move not the details of the fabric of those tights
Basically everything the Young Bucks are and do.
Of all the big guys to come out of that era of New Japan (Adam Cole, AJ, Cody, Okada, Omega, Balor) they all had the hidden ability to act serious, except for the Bucks. If I wanted to watch you play around with your friends I would have showed up to watch you wrestle in backyards on trampolines.
Trying to be the fourth wall breaking wrestlers runs dry really fast.
You were a big reason I got back into wrestling this year. Thanks for adding to a great year of watching wrestling! Happy new years Santi 🎉❤
Agree way too many high spots that mean nothing and gets wrestler's hurt. Look at all the injuries nowadays compared too 20 years ago
To be fair, 20 years ago there was way more of a culture of dudes getting hurt and just never taking time off. Its why so many wrestlers in that generation got addicted to painkillers
What annoys me . . . the lack of pacing and psychology within a match. Those two go hand in hand.
I remember the Adam Cole vs Buddy Matthews match where Adam Cole kicked out of a buckle bomb and stomp at one and started to hulk up and no one cared because everyone wanted Buddy to win. Selling? Who caaaaaares.
I mean, adam cole, murphy, ricochet, black, and a couple others are basically just your entertainment in-ring side of things. I don't mind fast paced wrestling, i think it can be cool. Shawn Michaels v Mysterio, Eddie tribute match, face v face. Rey vs Eddie 1997 WCW. And I don't mean even the flippy stuff, Goldberg v Brock at WM33 was fun because they knew to keep it short, a hard hitting, physical, power based match. You can have technical and nontechnical matches with no story be fun, as long as you keep them short. Goldberg used to do backflips in WCW and shrug off chairs to the dome. Lesnar used to do kipups and almost made an SSP at WM19. With a story it's also possible, but you have to tell a story in the ring. It can't just be high spots and flippy shit for the sake of high spots and flippy shit. Michaels & Angle WM21, Taker and Angle Vengeance 06, Shawn and Taker WM25 & 26, Owen v Shawn IYH6. Those are matches with technical and high spots, with a meaning and a story.
During the same match ,Adam ate a Superplex from the top rope and he got up after 3 seconds and hit Buddy with a superkick. When I was growing up the Superplex used to take a toll on the recipient and executioner of the move to the point where it would take them like a minute to get up from it.
And he is no Kane, he looks like a small tiny girl.
@@Hunkzilla Superkicks with his injuries btw
Similar to any sport orientated show, it’s not about how flashy a move looks, it’s how effective the move is (or supposed to be sold as).
As someone that is 32 and has watched professional wrestling for about 30 years now, I completely agree with all of this. I spent over 20 years of my life watching wrestling alone because no one else wants to ignore being able to easily see through everything. There used to be a time where wrestling was fun because it was believable. Now professional wrestling seems like it just wants "fun" like it's a half time event for something more serious.
We need more technical wrestling and bring back the validity of finishers and stop with the 50 kickouts
I love how stories are handled in promos and vignettes, and some storytelling aspects in spots. But particularly in the women's division, there's just too many complicated spots that are just showy and it's no wonder so many of these women are botching so many moves. The men suffer from this too, but not as much. The men's issue is finishers not actually finishing matches anymore with the exception of occasional squash matches and Saturday Night Main Event.
On men, too many wrestlers are high flyers, but they're not taught how to do wrestling psychology, not enough slowpace action, now I understand why Vince doesn't like high flyers, for all his wrongdoing, this I kinda agree with him
People like to hate on hogan about his lack of wrestling and it is warranted a lot. But you cant deny that his leg drop drew a bigger pop than any canadian destroyers. Same with rock's elbow.
Well obviously but that’s why wrestlers do shit like that because they’re trying to make up for a lack of charisma.
The point is Hogan would have been exactly that over with any other finisher.
@joshpaulik699 that's the point though. Why do unnecessary stuff when it'll be over the same. Just look at edge. He's injured for doing something that was unnecessary. It added nothing and now he's not performing.
@@danday9697 Hogan ruined his back with the leg drop. He has said over and over he regrets not choosing something else.
@joshpaulik699 after like 30 years of wrestling. Any bump will do that. But it is incredibly safe to take it.
One example of good selling I'd like to point out is from AEW Full Gear where Hangman Page puts Jay White in an Angle lock in which Jay reverses it to win. Jay is still selling his leg after the match even hopping to leave the ring. When he comes out later on he's still selling his leg from eariler. It's the little things that go a long way.
Zac Sabre Junior has it right- hundred and one ways to look doninant get over without needing to even leave his feet. ZSj vs Davie Richards is one of the most fantastic matches I've seen live.
I really love watching ZSJ
He's 65 pounds too light to be believable.
ZSJ is the worst pro wrestler alive, he murders pro wrestling more in one match than anyone else could in a career. Literally nothing he does looks real or believable, he's the ultimate example of someone making wrestling worse.
@@badladyamiIf you watch mma or boxing many guys look like geeks or very normal people and they kick the ass of giant guys
Stevie should be hired as a booker.
He would be better as a coach.
I wholeheartedly agree.
AEW needs a SERIOUS overhaul backstage. TK is a fool and a terrible businessman. They need a bunch of experienced pros to come in and turn it around.
@@Rocket1377 or an agent,putting a match together,don't know if they matter anymore
I want him to join AEW as a commenator as well.
My big pet peeve is when a wrestler is going to the top rope, and the opponent on the mat scoots themselves around into the perfect position to take the move.
You can find one instance in almost every show. Wrestler is so beat down he can’t get out of the way, but he’ll scoot his unconscious body a full half turn to be in just the right spot to get hit.
The WWE is overproduced. There should only be two 2 hours show per week (Raw and Smackdown), and one 1 hour show per week (NXT). Once a month can be a 3 hour PPV, with Wmania being a 4 hour extravaganza.
It's also overproduced in that the matches are fully scripted, like a set of stunts in a movie. It's also about as believable. Brett Hart liked to work out the whole match, but he also knew how to improvise if a match wasn't working or if something went wrong. He had great respect for wrestlers who just wanted to know the opening and the finish. How they got from one to the other depended on the audience.
@@michaelbobic7135 Do you think outlining the broad strokes, and say 3-5 important spots, would be a good balance, with everything else called in the ring?
Nobody is sitting through a 4 hr show on a weekend these days. That is specifically why WWE started splitting their WM shows into 2 nights.
no i prefer if more wrestlers get tv time
I do agree kicking out of finishers happen way too much. I watched the Taker Michaels WM over the weekend and the storytelling in the ring and the pacing made it elite. Now a finisher is hit quick and they kick out predictably. It just feels rushed and forced.
It's all like playing Smackdown Here Comes The Pain now. Everyone gets up and kicks out of everything. In the games it is fine. But irl it is crazy lol.
I love this, its probably the closest to how I feel about modern wrestling encapsulated. Personally my biggest pet peeve is something you touched on briefly: the "deer in headlights" moment. When a spot doesn't go as planned, or someone is out of position, or whatever it is goes wrong, and the wrestler just looks completely panicked and completely drops character. It's gotten to the point that probably the number one thing that makes me rate a wrestler highly these days is if they can get through a blown spot and still look natural doing it. It seems to be extremely rare. Nothing takes me out of a match faster than seeing wrestlers awkwardly reset to re-do something, or still sell the same despite a move barely connecting or entirely missing. I feel like kayfabe being so plainly out-of-the-bag now probably has a lot to do with it. I don't think wrestlers feel like they have anything to "protect" anymore, so if things go badly their priority is to stick to the script instead of improvising to protect the reality of the match.
I had no idea that wrestlers were so beholden to moment-by-moment calls from backstage through the refs earpiece, though, that's insane. No wonder they look so lost when they have to think for themselves. I wish I knew exactly watch Otis match you were referring to where you didn't do that. I'd really like to see if it feels more like the kind of wrestling I used to love.
Dana promotes SLAPPING contests, he has 0 right to talk about anything other than MMA
And a recent report came out stating that the likelihood of brain damage and concussions is WAY higher than MMA or pro wrestling. Who'da thunk it?
@Loe_Jist Of course, because you're allowed to protect yourself at all times in MMA, if you get hurt it's on you, it's still messed up but in this PowerSlap circus! It's guaranteed you get brain damage.
@@Loe_JistAnd he’s hard glazing Jon Jones over more beloved fighters despite him being a worse PR nightmare than New Jack and Matt Bourne. Oh and the list of people he’s gone out of his way to bury is just as long as Vince’s except probably worse in some cases.
@@rayvenkman2087 Connor McGregor's criminal record, controversies, and list of allegations and lawsuits alone are all WAY more than any wrestler McMahon may have covered for back in the day.
@@Loe_Jist Shy of Jimmy Sunka's homicide.
This episode really spoke to me. It drives home just how far the psychology aspect of the business has fallen. The simple fact is, everything needs to make sense, even if it is outlandish, and down to the smallest detail.
I like wrestling but it’s the same spots in every match that gets me.. everyone piled together waiting for someone to jump on them, finishers being kicked out constantly, no selling big moves, same movesets of superkicks and spears on a dozen guys and the setups for a big spot is way to choreographed that you know what is coming well in advance.
WWE has the same match throughout every show. Super kick. Table spot. Ring steps. Spear. Etc. It absolutely looks fake. And yet, today's WWE's fans eat that shit up because they either don't know no better or have very low expectations of the in-ring product.
Everything mentioned here is spot on. Also modern day wrestling is just 1 style (high flying) what happened to power, technical, grappler, submission specialist and so on
Something I hate is every match is won with a finisher. People will clothesline someone and pin them for 2, why did they think they'd win with a clothesline? Everyone knows the match will end with a finisher or interference. Why even have near falls?
They've got so much TV now, why can't Cody Rhodes have a warm up match against a lower card guy and win with a clothesline, or KO with a DDT. Keep the finishers for big matches when youre on equal footing and need something extra.
wrestling school content would be AWESOME!! maybe a collab with some current/former wrestlers who have schools or are trainers etc. love seeing the inner workings of the sport and could potentially encourage more people to give it a shot
As a notable member of the insanely flippy and neck-bumpy Australian backyard scene that wil ospreay grew up obsessed with, I apologise. Our influence definitely harmed pro wrestling, but we did advance moves in general and grew the pro scene in Australia back to something respectable.
Ps: Kyle Fletcher and Robbie Eagles come from our old yard scene. Ive wrestled them both. All on my channel.
I loved watching those videos back when they first started hitting the net. I recognized it was young people trying to create a whole new scene, all on their own. I could excuse the horrible psychology and story telling due to the lack of experience and no veterans to help. All that flippy shit can still be great in the right context, but unfortunately, many people just do fast shit nonstop, because they think it looks cool. No spots get to breath, no moments stand out, selling goes out the window...
@@CyrusCageSCWS
As an Aussie who's also put his friends through tables, good times😂🇦🇺
@SantaPorter420 aw yeah fuck yeah mate 😆🤙
Most of the world forgot Australia after Barnett. This all comes from PWG, CZW, and ROH.
@@badladyami
See you say that, but everytime an Aussie signs with one of the big companies, everyone pretends to know all about Australia
Hint, we don't actually put prawns on the barbie
That part about struggle hits so hard. I love watching wrestling where BOTH wrestlers are fighting for the application, or escape of even the smallest moves or holds. Like one wrestler going for a Boston Crab, the other kicks and turns to remain on their back, the first wrestler wrenches deep etc. Moves feel a lot more earned that way and the receiving wrestler comes off as less of a zombie in the way they aren't just "Letting it happen" which can and definitely has come off as phony.
I remember when finishers were the finish of the match.
I hate that primary finishers aren't protected anymore. I'm fine with kick outs on secondary finishers or stopping a setup of a primary finisher but these two, three finishers with kick outs is making the finishers seem less iconic. Maybe a finisher in a weaken state or done quickly could be understandable but a finisher that the superstar has time to setup and do it completely just needs to a done deal. The only exception is outside interference or a ref not able to count the pin.
1. idk I like the spanish fly >.>
2. I think we have reached a point where wrestling must (and will) evolve. moves and exchanges are getting more and more outlandish and spectacular, but lose the believability. that's one thing that I think the new young wrestlers will work towards improving/fixing. being able to do those flashy moves but do them in a way that looks "optimized". like it doesn't need a convoluted setup or obvious help from the opponent. rey mysterio set a new standard in the late 90s and throughout his career. his stuff "made sense". I think in a few years a new standard will be reached. no more waiting 10 seconds to catch someone, no more cooperating with the opponent so he can hit you with a complicated move... this quote 7:12 perfectly describes what I'm saying. as wrestlers get more athletic, I think this can be achieved
man you guys are speaking the real REAL, earned me as a subscriber. I agree with everything you guys said in this video.
A big problem: too many ppv's. They don't have time to build a good story that deserves a big payoff match.
I just nodded my head for 31:59….great work fellas.
All the biggest stars got over due to character, not doing the newest riskiest moves. When will wrestlers care about it again.
Love it Stevie. Shouldn’t have the same match one first that you would have on 6th. Big part of what’s missing in wrestling today is psychology and structure like that
Asking who slammed who at WM3 as a follow-up to "who did the Canadian destroyer on a Manchester show" is perfection.
They make it so complicated today.
2 people have a scheduled match cuz winners get closer to a belt match.
Grudges develop based on outcomes and decent promos.
Fan favorites headline shows.
That's it.
2024 ... Super finisher from the top rope onto a barbed wire table = a 1 count kick out from a 160lbs flyweight "wrestler" 🤦🤦🤦
I thought flyweight was like 110?
True, I did over exaggerate but for a professional wrestler it's about right, some of these modern wrestlers aren't ready for tv imo, unless they introduce a wcw style cruiserweight division. I'm not saying everyone needs to be Scott Steiner but at least have someone who looks bigger than the average audience member.
Part of what made WCW work in the late '90s was that it really did build toward the main event. Every Nitro mostly started with more of a wrestling showcase in the first hour with the cruiserweights putting on a good match or two, sometimes to be interrupted by something teasing later action. It would then move into the TV and US title pictures as well as the tag team scene, and finish with segments for the top guys. It built toward what everyone wanted to see.
You don’t need cliff hangers. You need compelling story and characters that are ultimately building to a finale. It’s just live theatre when you think about it.
You guys are absolutely right about the same matches and movies. It's to the point where; when I bought the WWE 2K games, I made entire promotions and rosters that had entirely different movesets. I remember in 2K19 especially, when making movesets; I started from the finisher and worked backwards. I had moves that made sense and targeted the part of the body to make it more impactful. It certainly didn't seem like a random cluster of moves then a finish like the main in game roster. I steered clear of three moves though for my entire roster because of the amount of these three I saw and still see throughout wrestling; and that's suicide dives, DDTs, and super kicks. There was one exception though, and that exception was a heel who loved WWE so I gave him the most WWE moveset ever. In the storyline aka my head canon he was trying to be signed to WWE so he was the only one with WWE logos and branding. I believe I either gave him a DDT or some variation on the super kick as his "finisher" if not used one as "signature" and the other as a "finisher".
I miss unpredictability….its the same damn matches every week for years
The biggest thing I’ve noticed in recent years with wrestling is spot setups. Either taking too long or the constant “checks” before execution.
It’s jarring having a wrestling persona having to jump in and out of character because of it.
I understand the risks and making sure it’s executed correctly but it can take you right out of the moment.
I think the pacing has hurt it. Everything just looked better when it was a tad slower.
This is an underrated point. Every match now you can see the wrestlers going from point A to B to C to D exactly as they planned it. They think only the moves matter, when in fact its what you doing in between the moves that matters most. When the pace of the match is dynamic and has tempo changes it feels organic. When they're just racing their way from point A to D there's no time for the audience to digest any of what's happened so the the next spot is just as forgettable as the last.
I stopped what I was doing and tuned straight in at about 17 minutes when Stevie was talking about reflexes. Very, very high level stuff here.
What pisses me off about modern WWE wrestling is the constant camera zooms on nearly every move. I can't watch anymore because of them.
Saaaame. So much better to just see a move fully done on a wide angle. Same problem plagues action films.
It has gotten better since Kevin Dunn left. It's still a problem, though.
I saw your comment after I made a very similar one. Anyway, I stopped watching long before the quick zooms, and it looks like I'll never go back because of them.
@@Rocket1377 Kevin Dunn started that? He should know better. :p
@@Ripplin Kevin Dunn should have known a lot of other things too. xD
The moves like Canadian Destroyer that it isn't even clear who is supposed to be hurt are especially bad. They break the illusion of conflict.
Stevie is a top guy in his own world
Seriously. The dude is delusional, sad thing is he’s a real asshole behind the scenes I’ve heard so many stories about Stevie throwing temper tantrums when he doesn’t get shit his way. He’s still a man child
Pretty funny considering the criticism he received for his ECW and WWE runs