I do similar but with post fader busses. I send drum and drum crush busses through effects rack compressors which return into the band bus. (We have a mono system with 10 busses used up for monitors). Thank you for clearly explaining how subgroups option works 👍
🙂 Thanks. I'm going to be seeing if I can setup a slight change from what you are doing. At my church, we do not have a "performance" for our musicians, we have them act as "lead" to those that are actually worshiping. So what I need to do is have the levels at just loud enough to support the people that are "performing" worship (the congregation) not drowned out by the worship lead. We want to mix to be enough to support the congregation's singing. The goal is to have everyone (in the congregation) hearing each other as well as the leaders being able to support. Our goal is to have the balance so that none of the parts is overpowered. I think I have what I need to get that done now.
Do you have a video on how you are controlling multi-track playback? Is this an available feature only with a specific card? Great video as always. Thanks for your knowledge!
I believe that’s the Midas SD card (which is also compatible with the X32). It replaces the USB card (although the SD card also have USB), and allows 32-channel multitrack recording directly on the console.
Hi, I did everything like in the video and it worked, however after adding some effects like EQ to the vocal subgroup now I can’t mute the subgroup, the vocals still have volume even if I mute the subgroup. Thanks for the help I can get on this.
Trying to add surround sound for videos. Having a time figuring out Routing, which needs to be 1-in (from surround decoder),1-out to powered speakers. Just a thought for a vid. Thanks for all you do!
Very interesting way of live mixing. I would say, that by this much of compression may cause feedback I your room, because live mixing may lead you to mix on inputs, but not mix buses. This console is not large enough to mix live like this. And also when you finally polish whole mix, your band and audience is 3 hours a home.
Hey all...wondering if any came across an issue of mine when attempting this followed steps as Drew in the video. When i went to config to change the mix bus to subgroup, i was un able to send signal to those subgroups...but if i had to set to pre or post, signal would be sent... Thoughts/comments
So what if run your subs on the mono? Kick, bass, keys and tracks will need to also go to the subs. I wouldn’t want to send the entire bus to the mono/subs would I?
LOVE this vid! How do DCAs figure in? Can the output of a bus pair be controlled with a DCA? Also, what do you think about using a bus for a combination of kick drum and bas guitar?
Yes, you should search the video “Dave rat live mixing strategy” it is similar to this but adds in DCAs to control your groups and all your inputs to control the entire mix from a broader perspective.
@@Ben_O3149another great video on using sub groups!👍 I am a bit confused though about the all channels section? Does he mean sending all the individual channels to a dca? Would they then also be going to mains LR?
@@markq23 All his channels go to subgroups like this video mentions not directly to LR. However he has a DCA that controls all the inputs BEFORE the subgroups and then a DCA to control all the subgroups. So he can push the all inputs DCA up while simultaneously pulling the all groups DCA down to feed the subgroup compression harder while maintaining the same overall volume. You could do the opposite for less subgroup compression. It’s perfect for different songs that have different energy levels. Definitely watch his video a couple times it’s great.
In 2015 I tried to build an equivalent of digital console for a show… I had cabinet and cabinets of gears… now I am fully digital, but I kept two analog compressors for my main…
One of the main reasons for using subgroups on a digital desk is to manage your gain structure correctly. In digital desks, you have to be hitting above -18dbfs RMS (not peak), but on the x32, the meters are in peak, not rms. Because of this, you have to be hitting your peaks around -6dbfs to ensure it's above 18dbfs rms. Why does it have to be above - 18dbfs? Because it's only then, does the A/D convertors kick in properly, and you get the full 24-bit sounds. Then, you can balance your mix on the subgroups' taste and ensure you're not peaking at your master bus.
Watched the video, but most would disagree. Having your meter hover around -18 will provide all the clarity and definition you need. In fact, running the X32 hot is a no-no according to some. Losing a few bits of resolution isn’t an issue.
That fine. You can do that, but don’t post a comment like it’s a fact. It’s not. He’s just one man with an opinion. There others who would disagree. In fact, there are others who would tell you he’s factually wrong. That’s all I’m trying to say. Cheers.
If I've got 6 monitor mixes that leaves 3 stereo sub groups for me. My question is...If I want to have the parallel drums could I make the band sub group include the drums as well and just parallel the drums? Id have Band, parallel drums and vocal sub group. Id still have drums and band seperate on DCAs so I could adjust drum overall volume separately there.
Can you do a video on parallel sub groups like for vocals or other instruments besides drums, the pros and cons of such, assuming one has space on their board for such? Is this something regularly done in bigger venues or studio recording or just something you've come up with for added fullness?
Are there any phasing problems when running a parallel drum sub group? One would suspect that the sub group without the comp and other effects would be faster than the sub group with effects and comps. If that's true how could you compensate for that
@@DrewBrashlerThanks, I essentially had the same question, about compressing twice. I kind of figured that was the case, but not something you specifically mentioned in the video.
Hi Drew, great video as usual! When using subgroups as you’ve described how would you send to the M/C buss? Would you still assign the individual channels to it or just the subgroup as you have the LR? Just a thought as I wouldn’t add hi hat to my M/C buss or guitar but I would my kick, toms and bass guitar, if these were part of a subgroup that was sending to the M/C then surely everything in that group would be sending to it too? Would you just use EQ in the individual channel strip to control this instead?
This sounds really good for live performance, but when mixing a separate live stream mix is this still the best solution? And can you clear up the fact that only 12 0f the 16 busses can be used?
Yes I do! I find that using the DCA's while mixing is the easiest to actively mix on and the subgroups are more in the background of my mix doing a lot of the work. If I am mixing with DCA's and Subgroups, I'll typically assign the subgroups to the DCA's rather than the channels to the DCA's. That way when I'm mixing with the DCA's it is affecting the master level of those subgroups.
In this context, but expanding it - you have some content on using SuperRack Performer via USB with the X32 on input channels. Is there a way to do that AND on any of the busses? Using better EQ and compression on inputs is a great option, but I would also like to tap in to superior reverb and I use buses for that, not individual channels - this is important for the need to vary parameters by song and the need to quickly mute for when singers are going to speak. Thanks for all you do!!
Hi Drew, In your "Mixing by SUBGROUPS" video, you mention expanding your XLR outputs using the SL8 or SL16 outs so that you would have more stereo pairs to Subgroup on the X32. This is an excellent video for the mix/playback workflow! My question looks at the Live mix. Assuming you are mixing both FOH and Monitors from the same board, can you be more specific on the procedure? The routing and XLR assignments puzzle me on this one. Do the SL extra outs appear in the routing menu when a device is introduced to the AES50 chain? I need 7outputs to wedges and IEM's....what's the solution??
I just got an X32 Rack and an SD8 stage box for the first time and have been exploring this. What I've found is that f I connect AES50 A from the X32 to AES50 A on the SD8, and then set the switch on the side of the SD8 to the "9-16" position, the default routing seems to already be set up so that Mix Buses 9-16 become the sources of the 8 physical XLR output jacks on the SD8. Mix Bus 9 becomes the signal source for "OUT 1" on the SD8. Mix Bus 10 becomes the signal source for "OUT 2", and so on. So now between the X32 and SD8, I have 16 physical outputs that correspond to Mix Buses 1-16.
Yes and no. You can't send a mixbus directly to another mixbus. You would have to reprogram an aux channel to have the source coming from the mixbus. Then that aux channel could then go to another mixbus. A bit of a work around, but it would work.
@@DrewBrashler could not get it to work. If i undestood you right, you told me to route a mixbus (#1; drums) to an external hardware aux, then route back in to the console with a cable, and then sent it to another mixbus? For me that second mixbus would be "drums&bass"; sending my bass also to that mixbus. What i want to do is this: group all my drums tracks to a mixbus, apply fairly hard compresion to accentuate the drums groove; send it to the hardware aux; route it back to the console with a cable, route that reentrydrums to a second mixbus. I would send my bass to this same second mixbus and apply compresion again, softer this time, to get the bass to groove with the drums. Is that posible? Did I miss anything?
Yes and no. You can't send a mixbus directly to another mixbus. You would have to reprogram an aux channel to have the source coming from the mixbus. Then that aux channel could then go to another mixbus. A bit of a work around, but it would work.
Hello Drew, the only thing that doesn’t make any sense to me is Having drums subgroups and everything else assigned to the main when you have an instrument subgroup already assigned to the main what is the benefit of that?
Hello. There are only 16 mixbuses on the Behringer X32, from 1 to 16. But 15 and 16 are the main ones, i.e. when I connect the main sound to bus 15 and 16, I physically occupy them. So I can't use these mixbuses any other way. Then it turns out that I have mixbus 1 to 14 at my disposal. And in the Mixbus sands section, the buttons indicate from 1 to 4, from 5 to 8, from 9 to 12 and from 13 to 16. It turns out that in the case of physically connecting the main sound to the 15 and 16 mixbus, I cannot use them as sends? I'm sorry, it's probably confusing. That is, it turns out the total number of mixbus is not 16, but 14
If I just do one drum subgroup and don't take the drums out of the mains to save buses will I have time delay and phase cancelation problems? If so, can I just do my two drum subgroups and use 1 for parallel compression and have the rest of the band and vocals going directly to the main.
Can you change bus 13-16 on the beginner x32 and use for a group to send to a p16? trying to get top/bottom snares to one p16 channel and out of buses.
Great video tutorial. I am going to try using some subgroups, but I have to use some buses for in-ear monitors and livestream audio mixes. I may could do two subgroups (4 buses). If I had to pick, what do you think would benefit the most using subgroups?
Drums! You must compress all together, for a better groove. If cymbals pumps, try a low ratio or limit the gain reduction with the range option. You need a low treshold
I would agree with @lucianogm, drums would be one option. A drum group and a parallel drum group which i'll have a video coming out soon for. The other option would be a band group and a vocal group. I would have a hard time deciding between those two options.
@@DrewBrashler Thanks! I’m going to try it on the drums first and will let y’all know how it goes. Can’t wait to see your video about using the parallel drum group. I want to try that out.
@@DrewBrashler the subgroups worked great last Sunday. I got some compliments on how good the drums sounded. Should the subgroup include the drum effects too? Thanks
Hi I want to no wen i want to put monitor speakers and floor monitor speakers can i put Another monitor speakers on a x32 and can i Controlled it. On x32
In my setup…I’m putting channels on mix buses, disabling the stereo sends button on the channel and enabling it on the mix bus….very similar to this setup minus the sub groups. The difference is my channels are not in sub groups…so I can’t really understand what putting them in sub groups specifically does differently than without , help me understand?
Yes, I will use channel compression to keep the channel dynamics controlled, and then use the Subgroup compression to keep the subgroups dynamics controlled.
I implemented this on our M32R recently, and it seems that I've lost the ability to control the volume of DCAs that contain channels now sent to these buses. Is this normal, or am I missing something?
Hey Drew, im still new to the x32 and have been watching all of these video. Thank you for all this information. im still a little confused about the differences between subgroups, dcas, matrix, aux outs and mani c/l/r. they seem redundant in some ways doing the same things with subtle benefits. can you please compare all the outputs in one video? thank you.
DCA is "digitally controlled amplifier", and basically all it does is remotely control whatever channels you have assigned to it, by adding a trim cut or boost to each channel. So no signal goes "through" the DCA, it simply changes the amount of signal going through each channel assigned to it, moving up or down from wherever the channel fader is. I can set a DCA up for instance that controls all the vocal mics, and another one for all the band instruments, so once I mix the vocals and the band, I can adjust the entire vocal mix up or down in relation to the band mix. I can also mute the entire group of channels from the DCA controls. A Subgroup on the other hand has signal routed THROUGH it, and controls the summed levels of all the signals sent to it, so you can use it to send a separate mix to monitors or a Broadcast feed etc. On an analog board it would be closest to an Aux buss send, as you can separately set how much signal comes from each channel into the Subgroup, either pre fade or post fade (or other options lol). I use subs to send signals to monitors, broadcast, etc, but I also use them to create a Vocal and a Band subgroup (instead of using a DCA), and then I can compress and add FX to the subgroup, which is then routed to the Mains. I am using a subgroup instead of a DCA specifically so I can easily compress and FX each group. Subgroups are also used to feed the first 4 Sidechain FX slots. The Matrix is basically a way to internally route signals, to get between various sections, or be able to add eq or compression to a signal in a different way. It's basically a 6 lane buss that various sections can put signal into or take signal out of. Aux out is I believe 1/4 inch balanced output, and I think it might be limited to stereo pairs or something like that? Or maybe it's limited processing capabilities. It's like for a record send or running foyer speakers or whatever. LCR is just the main outputs, with LR being standard stereo, Center generally being LR summed together, but you can also set it up so some things only go to LR and others only go to Center, think of a system with a Center Cluster, and then LR speakers, you might put the sermon mostly or entirely on the center cluster, but have music come from the sides, and a live band with instruments spread across all 3 to get a good dispersion. I think there is also a Mono feed which would be the LR summed to mono, and it could be used for a center cluster, or for delay fills, balcony, foyer, etc. A lot of churches are best off running mono entirely because only about 5 people are sitting where they can actually hear stereo in a wide room lol. So yes, there is a lot of overlap and redundancy, and that's perfect because it gives lots of flexibility depending on operator style and the needs of the facility and setup. Professional consoles have countless more options and redundancies, because even this one can't do certain setups because it doesn't have enough busses or matrices or whatever lol So I hope that gives you a better idea of this console!
Oh, and subgroups when used for things like fx and monitors would not be routed to the Mains, because they are feeding other outputs or the internal fx rack, while subgroups used for the vocal group etc would be routed into the LR buss, it's just being used to control the level of the group as a group, before going to the speakers.
Thank you so much for the thorough response! I chuckled a little thinking about the people at church who actually can enjoy stereo lol. After much planning, im gonna go ahead and attempt to use the subgroups as well since the compression will help the vocals be in front of the band no matter who the volunteer at the mixer is. When i use a subgroup, will i still be able to apply eq and compression onto the individual channels? Do they act as a fine adjustment and the subgroups is a macro adjustment?
@@Kingdom0324you can put compression and eq on a channel, on a mix buss, or on matrix buss or on the Main busses, and they are all separate. So you would want to do your room compensation eq on the Mains, the livestream eq and compression on that bus, and then make whatever adjustments you need on each channel there. It's an art deciding what to put on what location lol If you just do everything on the channel it will work, but the more you can move to the actual output the better. And for doing the vocal/band subs, I would put some compression on each channel to help hold the mix together and lift up the quiet singers, and then apply more on the bus to keep it playing well between the band and instruments. You can use the Gain setting in the compression screen to add makeup gain and compensate for the compression. And keep compression at a minimum so you don't crush the dynamics too far
I've got a lingering question in my head: Are there any delay introduced when you pass channels through subgroups before sending them to main LR? Anyway, great vid as always!
None due to everything being run inside the X32 The only way you'll run into latency issues is running Waves SuperRack or a similar software which is run externally then back into the X32
@@jericco. @clarkbush3098 I guess it's either that or by inserting the combinator that is gonna cause some slight delay. Anyway thank you both for the reply.
Hi, I am a bit confused had the Behringer X32 compact for 3 weeks trying to set up for church . I thought you taught that you should send the Bus/ Aux to a Matrix then out. I am trying to set up for FOH and to stream. Not sure how to setup help anyone. Simple scenes for sale? 🙆
I believe you can't do anything on the DCA's except for raising or lowering the volume of the groups. So there would be no extra eq, compression inserts,, fx etc
Drew how can you use wave super rack native and virtual sound check at the same time. Also how can you record during your show and also use waves super rack native.
This is a question I also have. Perhaps there is a different expansion card - one that would provide two USB ports - so one could be used for recording and the other for SuperRack Performer - AND two laptops or computers likely also - though maybe recording is not CPU intensive, so both possible at the same time.
Hi. I'm wondering what the benifit of subgroups is instead of some postfader mixbuses? I want to make a livestream mix in a matrix that uses some subgroups or mixbuses
Do the Busses NEED to be Linked/Stereo..? I don't typically Pan anything..... I'd like to retain Buss 1-4 for Wedges and have Buss 5-8 be ("mono") SubGrp's... I use Buss 9-16 as 'Dual Mono' FX Returns...I work with ALOT of Cover Bands and need to stay "Flexible:
When setting up the drums subgroups, should they include the drum reverb? I’m assuming no, because it’s going through separate effects bus to main L/R.
Yes you should actually route your drum reverb back to your drum bus. Same for vocals. It should not go to LR. If it does go to LR, and your effects are post fader, when you turn up individual channels, they will feed the compressor, and your reverb will soon overpower the vocal since it is post fader and feeding LR. If you feed your vocal reverb to the vocal bus, now your reverb will not overpower the vocal since they will both be getting compressed by the vocal bus. That’s how I do it anyways. It’s a Dave Ratt technique
DCA question - I am interested in your thoughts to configure dca s with same sets of channels as these subgroups to be able to easily drive bus compressors further into or out of compression as the music demands. I have a Wing so less constrained on stereo busses - also interested in your opinion on which Wing comp to use for bus compression. Thanks Drew
DCA IS JUST VOLUME CONTROL, THERE IS NO DINAMICS , IT IS JUST LIKE TAKNG THE FADERS OF EVERY CHANNEL ASSIGNED TO THAT DCA EITHER DOWN. OR UP…ONLY THAT, YOU CAN’T ADD COMPRESSION, GATE OR EVEN EQ.
Yes i did it for years before iever mixed FOH with an x32 console. Just use the send knobs when you select a channel..its easy. Why would you or not want to use SOF? Its really up to your person workflow preference but i generally just use the send knobs per mix bus as im going thru and getting gain and monitors amounts.
Yes, and no - it depends on your overall needs and available options. DCAs only give you volume control - so, as stated, no DSP options - but if your busses are already being used for IEM/monitor mixes/stream/mother's room/etc. DCAs is one option. Another option (I haven't dug into yet) may be the use of the matrix feature - not sure what is and isn't available on a matrix mix, in terms of DSP, or routing - but they may well be another viable option here or for other things. Many options with a digital mixer.
Feedback is always something you have to keep tabs on, but I have mixed live with this method for years and it has always rocked. Also, with the not enough time, I have a starting file for every mixer that I use on the regular that has the routing already done for me. That is the beauty of offline editors. Thanks for watching and the comment!
@@DrewBrashler I'm sure... I just use the x32 rack and can't seem to make subgroups using the video because they seem to have different layouts between the x32 console and the x32 rack. Thanks
@@DrewBrashler I would love to see the vids using edit instead of the console, that way (if I'm not mistaken) they would apply to either hardware choice.
@@DrewBrashler and you are filling a similar position as Dave in the church sound space. ;) I have been doing church tech for over 30 years now, but all analog boards until a few weeks ago when I started helping at a small local church that had just upgraded to the X32, and so I am on a crash course of getting comfortable with not having everything on the surface, but also being able to implement all the routing and processing tricks that I have learned from Dave and others over the years, but never been able to implement because I didn't have an outboard rack full of toys, and your videos have been one of the best sources I have found to answer my questions and help me rapidly learn the X32, when I don't even have access to board before sound check! Lol I really appreciate your camera work so we can always see exactly what's going on, and learn the little tricks that only come through experience or observation. And knowing how God works, I am probably learning the X32 now because I will probably end up supporting other churches in upgrading to the X32 in the near future! Lol So thank you for what you are doing, because you are equipping what I am calling the 6th Fold Ministry, the Apostles of Tech! (Paul forgot to include this because we were very much behind the scenes in his era, but now we literally run the show and facilitate most sharing of the Gospel ;) )
I really appreciate your videos except for one thing - the audio from the mixer seems fairly unclear - like it is whatever your vocal mic is picking up from monitors in your room. I listen in a near studio environment, so am used to hearing subtle differences - but I have trouble with many of your videos. Perhaps it would be possible to patch the audio from the mixer directly into your video/stream and use a ducker for when you are speaking. I really value the content - but the music quality isn't good enough for me to hear the more subtle things you are doing, while on other channels minute changes are easy for me to hear. (My JBL monitors are literally a couple of feet from my ears, with a sub at my feet, so subtle audio and stereo changes are VERY easy for me to hear.)
Thanks for the feedback! In my current video editing workflow, to use a ducker I would have to process my audio outside of Adobe Premiere which would add another step, so I haven't been doing that for time sake. I will reconsider this in the future. Thanks!
Yeah, but you have to remember this platform came out in August 2012, just shy of 11 years ago. It’s competition was what? Presonus studio live and Yamaha LS9? I think it was pretty robust at the time.
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
I do similar but with post fader busses. I send drum and drum crush busses through effects rack compressors which return into the band bus. (We have a mono system with 10 busses used up for monitors).
Thank you for clearly explaining how subgroups option works 👍
Thanks for the vid and everyone in the comments. Been in audio about 6 years and I love how everyone here has slightly different ways of mixing!
This is a gold mine of info in just this vid, tysm!
You're welcome! Thanks so much for watching!
🙂 Thanks. I'm going to be seeing if I can setup a slight change from what you are doing. At my church, we do not have a "performance" for our musicians, we have them act as "lead" to those that are actually worshiping. So what I need to do is have the levels at just loud enough to support the people that are "performing" worship (the congregation) not drowned out by the worship lead. We want to mix to be enough to support the congregation's singing. The goal is to have everyone (in the congregation) hearing each other as well as the leaders being able to support. Our goal is to have the balance so that none of the parts is overpowered. I think I have what I need to get that done now.
Vocal clarity, yes. It's not done enough in live venues. It's usually all drums in the mix.
hello Drew ! You're definitively my prefered X32 Teacher. Thanks a lot
How does this work with instruments sent via aux fed subs. Like the kick drum, bass, ect? Do you just leave them in the mono bus on each channel?
Absolutely love your channel.
Thank you so much Drew 🙏🏽🙏🏽 God bless ya
This mix is AMAZING!!
I learned a lot from this tutorial. Thank you!
Very cool! Thanks again bud!!✌
Do you have a video on how you are controlling multi-track playback? Is this an available feature only with a specific card? Great video as always. Thanks for your knowledge!
Second this
I believe that’s the Midas SD card (which is also compatible with the X32).
It replaces the USB card (although the SD card also have USB), and allows 32-channel multitrack recording directly on the console.
Hi, I did everything like in the video and it worked, however after adding some effects like EQ to the vocal subgroup now I can’t mute the subgroup, the vocals still have volume even if I mute the subgroup. Thanks for the help I can get on this.
This is SO COOL thank you.
Dude you are the man.
Great job sir
Can you use the fx sends as a subgroup (if you don't require fx on any of your busses) and how would you set that up?
Trying to add surround sound for videos. Having a time figuring out Routing, which needs to be 1-in (from surround decoder),1-out to powered speakers. Just a thought for a vid. Thanks for all you do!
Thank you Drew!!!
Beautiful....thanks for sharing
How about making a video MIXING both the Subgroups and DCA's. Comparisons, advantages and the downsides. Thanks!
You cant compress or eq a DCA.
I only use DCAs for mixing my FX these days.
Very interesting way of live mixing. I would say, that by this much of compression may cause feedback I your room, because live mixing may lead you to mix on inputs, but not mix buses. This console is not large enough to mix live like this. And also when you finally polish whole mix, your band and audience is 3 hours a home.
Really helpfull! thanks man.
can you make a video about the Task for Monitor Engineers
Great insight 😊
Great video. Could you make one how to set up different monitor mixes for the musicians when recording? Thanks
When will you post the Behringer wing subgroup mix video
Love from INDIA ❤❤❤
Hey all...wondering if any came across an issue of mine when attempting this
followed steps as Drew in the video.
When i went to config to change the mix bus to subgroup, i was un able to send signal to those subgroups...but if i had to set to pre or post, signal would be sent...
Thoughts/comments
So what if run your subs on the mono? Kick, bass, keys and tracks will need to also go to the subs. I wouldn’t want to send the entire bus to the mono/subs would I?
following
LOVE this vid! How do DCAs figure in? Can the output of a bus pair be controlled with a DCA?
Also, what do you think about using a bus for a combination of kick drum and bas guitar?
Yes, you should search the video “Dave rat live mixing strategy” it is similar to this but adds in DCAs to control your groups and all your inputs to control the entire mix from a broader perspective.
@@Ben_O3149another great video on using sub groups!👍 I am a bit confused though about the all channels section? Does he mean sending all the individual channels to a dca? Would they then also be going to mains LR?
@@markq23 All his channels go to subgroups like this video mentions not directly to LR. However he has a DCA that controls all the inputs BEFORE the subgroups and then a DCA to control all the subgroups. So he can push the all inputs DCA up while simultaneously pulling the all groups DCA down to feed the subgroup compression harder while maintaining the same overall volume. You could do the opposite for less subgroup compression. It’s perfect for different songs that have different energy levels. Definitely watch his video a couple times it’s great.
@@Ben_O3149 thanks for help😊👍
Is there a way to maybe do a mono subgroup for the lead vocal for instance?
In 2015 I tried to build an equivalent of digital console for a show… I had cabinet and cabinets of gears… now I am fully digital, but I kept two analog compressors for my main…
Thansk Drew !
One of the main reasons for using subgroups on a digital desk is to manage your gain structure correctly. In digital desks, you have to be hitting above -18dbfs RMS (not peak), but on the x32, the meters are in peak, not rms. Because of this, you have to be hitting your peaks around -6dbfs to ensure it's above 18dbfs rms. Why does it have to be above - 18dbfs? Because it's only then, does the A/D convertors kick in properly, and you get the full 24-bit sounds. Then, you can balance your mix on the subgroups' taste and ensure you're not peaking at your master bus.
I don’t see that anywhere in the documentation. Can you provide a link to the information on the convertors functionality?
@drefue there's a youtube video with Robest Schovill where he gives an understanding of gain structure and explains it there.
Watched the video, but most would disagree. Having your meter hover around -18 will provide all the clarity and definition you need. In fact, running the X32 hot is a no-no according to some. Losing a few bits of resolution isn’t an issue.
@@drefue I'm going to listen to one of the best live sound engineers on the planet. You can listen to whomever you want.
That fine. You can do that, but don’t post a comment like it’s a fact. It’s not. He’s just one man with an opinion. There others who would disagree. In fact, there are others who would tell you he’s factually wrong. That’s all I’m trying to say. Cheers.
If I've got 6 monitor mixes that leaves 3 stereo sub groups for me. My question is...If I want to have the parallel drums could I make the band sub group include the drums as well and just parallel the drums? Id have Band, parallel drums and vocal sub group. Id still have drums and band seperate on DCAs so I could adjust drum overall volume separately there.
Can you do a video on parallel sub groups like for vocals or other instruments besides drums, the pros and cons of such, assuming one has space on their board for such? Is this something regularly done in bigger venues or studio recording or just something you've come up with for added fullness?
Are there any phasing problems when running a parallel drum sub group? One would suspect that the sub group without the comp and other effects would be faster than the sub group with effects and comps. If that's true how could you compensate for that
Thanks a lot sir.. God bless you
Sure thing!
Okay sir my question is when doing the sub group, any need to do channel processing ( gate, eq, and compressor) before sending it to the sub group?
Yes! You would still do normal channel processing just like you would be if you were sending it to the LR Buss!
@@DrewBrashlerThanks, I essentially had the same question, about compressing twice. I kind of figured that was the case, but not something you specifically mentioned in the video.
What are you doing with your Effects, do you feed them to LR or to the Busses?
I will typically send my effects to the subgroups. Thanks for watching!
@@DrewBrashler make sense, thanks
Hi Drew, great video as usual! When using subgroups as you’ve described how would you send to the M/C buss? Would you still assign the individual channels to it or just the subgroup as you have the LR? Just a thought as I wouldn’t add hi hat to my M/C buss or guitar but I would my kick, toms and bass guitar, if these were part of a subgroup that was sending to the M/C then surely everything in that group would be sending to it too? Would you just use EQ in the individual channel strip to control this instead?
Proceed as usual with your routine. But myself, honestly im done with subs on Aux, moved onto to matrix sends and i honestly love it.
This sounds really good for live performance, but when mixing a separate live stream mix is this still the best solution? And can you clear up the fact that only 12 0f the 16 busses can be used?
Great video.
Do you use DCAs while using subgroups?
Yes I do! I find that using the DCA's while mixing is the easiest to actively mix on and the subgroups are more in the background of my mix doing a lot of the work. If I am mixing with DCA's and Subgroups, I'll typically assign the subgroups to the DCA's rather than the channels to the DCA's. That way when I'm mixing with the DCA's it is affecting the master level of those subgroups.
Thanks
Hey, if I use subgroups, should I be adjusting bus level instead of using DCAs?
Thx for the clip! Would it make sense to put even effects on the subgroups or better to seperate effect busses?
In this context, but expanding it - you have some content on using SuperRack Performer via USB with the X32 on input channels. Is there a way to do that AND on any of the busses? Using better EQ and compression on inputs is a great option, but I would also like to tap in to superior reverb and I use buses for that, not individual channels - this is important for the need to vary parameters by song and the need to quickly mute for when singers are going to speak. Thanks for all you do!!
Thank you sir, vry interesting mixing idea. Pls how can i do this with yamaha tf5?
Hi Drew, In your "Mixing by SUBGROUPS" video, you mention expanding your XLR outputs using the SL8 or SL16 outs so that you would have more stereo pairs to Subgroup on the X32. This is an excellent video for the mix/playback workflow! My question looks at the Live mix. Assuming you are mixing both FOH and Monitors from the same board, can you be more specific on the procedure? The routing and XLR assignments puzzle me on this one. Do the SL extra outs appear in the routing menu when a device is introduced to the AES50 chain? I need 7outputs to wedges and IEM's....what's the solution??
I just got an X32 Rack and an SD8 stage box for the first time and have been exploring this.
What I've found is that f I connect AES50 A from the X32 to AES50 A on the SD8, and then set the switch on the side of the SD8 to the "9-16" position, the default routing seems to already be set up so that Mix Buses 9-16 become the sources of the 8 physical XLR output jacks on the SD8. Mix Bus 9 becomes the signal source for "OUT 1" on the SD8. Mix Bus 10 becomes the signal source for "OUT 2", and so on.
So now between the X32 and SD8, I have 16 physical outputs that correspond to Mix Buses 1-16.
How could this be applied to a livestream being fed via a mixbus or matrix?
I am sending the livestream mix vía a sub group but is coming out mono Not stereo. How Can i fix it to be stereo?
If it’s only coming out of one output it will be mono. You’ll need to send a L/R out of two of the outputs to get the full stereo field
What if your kick and floor Tom are assigned to the mono for subwoofer?
Excelent video drew! Can i send a subgroup to another subgroup and then send that last subgroup to de mainbus?
Yes and no. You can't send a mixbus directly to another mixbus. You would have to reprogram an aux channel to have the source coming from the mixbus. Then that aux channel could then go to another mixbus. A bit of a work around, but it would work.
@@DrewBrashler thanks for the answer ! Ill try it
@@DrewBrashler could not get it to work.
If i undestood you right, you told me to route a mixbus (#1; drums) to an external hardware aux, then route back in to the console with a cable, and then sent it to another mixbus? For me that second mixbus would be "drums&bass"; sending my bass also to that mixbus.
What i want to do is this: group all my drums tracks to a mixbus, apply fairly hard compresion to accentuate the drums groove; send it to the hardware aux; route it back to the console with a cable, route that reentrydrums to a second mixbus. I would send my bass to this same second mixbus and apply compresion again, softer this time, to get the bass to groove with the drums.
Is that posible? Did I miss anything?
Is it possible to send subgroup to Mix buses, especially when using them for streaming/recording?
Yes and no. You can't send a mixbus directly to another mixbus. You would have to reprogram an aux channel to have the source coming from the mixbus. Then that aux channel could then go to another mixbus. A bit of a work around, but it would work.
@@DrewBrashler Many thanks, I will try that
after you create sub groups is it possible to feed stage monitors with those subgroups vs the indivudal channels of said groups?
Hello Drew, the only thing that doesn’t make any sense to me is Having drums subgroups and everything else assigned to the main when you have an instrument subgroup already assigned to the main what is the benefit of that?
Hello. There are only 16 mixbuses on the Behringer X32, from 1 to 16. But 15 and 16 are the main ones, i.e. when I connect the main sound to bus 15 and 16, I physically occupy them. So I can't use these mixbuses any other way. Then it turns out that I have mixbus 1 to 14 at my disposal. And in the Mixbus sands section, the buttons indicate from 1 to 4, from 5 to 8, from 9 to 12 and from 13 to 16. It turns out that in the case of physically connecting the main sound to the 15 and 16 mixbus, I cannot use them as sends? I'm sorry, it's probably confusing. That is, it turns out the total number of mixbus is not 16, but 14
If I just do one drum subgroup and don't take the drums out of the mains to save buses will I have time delay and phase cancelation problems? If so, can I just do my two drum subgroups and use 1 for parallel compression and have the rest of the band and vocals going directly to the main.
Hi Drew. By anychance would you happen to have this same exact scene to share?
Can you change bus 13-16 on the beginner x32 and use for a group to send to a p16? trying to get top/bottom snares to one p16 channel and out of buses.
Great video tutorial. I am going to try using some subgroups, but I have to use some buses for in-ear monitors and livestream audio mixes. I may could do two subgroups (4 buses). If I had to pick, what do you think would benefit the most using subgroups?
Drums! You must compress all together, for a better groove. If cymbals pumps, try a low ratio or limit the gain reduction with the range option. You need a low treshold
I would agree with @lucianogm, drums would be one option. A drum group and a parallel drum group which i'll have a video coming out soon for. The other option would be a band group and a vocal group. I would have a hard time deciding between those two options.
@@DrewBrashler Thanks! I’m going to try it on the drums first and will let y’all know how it goes. Can’t wait to see your video about using the parallel drum group. I want to try that out.
@@DrewBrashler the subgroups worked great last Sunday. I got some compliments on how good the drums sounded. Should the subgroup include the drum effects too? Thanks
Hi I want to no wen i want to put monitor speakers and floor monitor speakers can i put Another monitor speakers on a x32 and can i Controlled it. On x32
thanks !!
In my setup…I’m putting channels on mix buses, disabling the stereo sends button on the channel and enabling it on the mix bus….very similar to this setup minus the sub groups. The difference is my channels are not in sub groups…so I can’t really understand what putting them in sub groups specifically does differently than without , help me understand?
Helpful ❤❤❤❤
I'm so glad!
Hi Drew, when you use Subgroup, do I need to compressed the channel before compressed the whole subgroup?
Yes, I will use channel compression to keep the channel dynamics controlled, and then use the Subgroup compression to keep the subgroups dynamics controlled.
Hi Drew. How can i setup linked stereo busses stock compressors to behave as dual mono?
Hi drew , after making that i can use that as a output like aux or matrix for a camera or livestreaming?
I implemented this on our M32R recently, and it seems that I've lost the ability to control the volume of DCAs that contain channels now sent to these buses. Is this normal, or am I missing something?
Hey Drew, im still new to the x32 and have been watching all of these video. Thank you for all this information. im still a little confused about the differences between subgroups, dcas, matrix, aux outs and mani c/l/r. they seem redundant in some ways doing the same things with subtle benefits. can you please compare all the outputs in one video? thank you.
DCA is "digitally controlled amplifier", and basically all it does is remotely control whatever channels you have assigned to it, by adding a trim cut or boost to each channel. So no signal goes "through" the DCA, it simply changes the amount of signal going through each channel assigned to it, moving up or down from wherever the channel fader is. I can set a DCA up for instance that controls all the vocal mics, and another one for all the band instruments, so once I mix the vocals and the band, I can adjust the entire vocal mix up or down in relation to the band mix. I can also mute the entire group of channels from the DCA controls.
A Subgroup on the other hand has signal routed THROUGH it, and controls the summed levels of all the signals sent to it, so you can use it to send a separate mix to monitors or a Broadcast feed etc.
On an analog board it would be closest to an Aux buss send, as you can separately set how much signal comes from each channel into the Subgroup, either pre fade or post fade (or other options lol).
I use subs to send signals to monitors, broadcast, etc, but I also use them to create a Vocal and a Band subgroup (instead of using a DCA), and then I can compress and add FX to the subgroup, which is then routed to the Mains. I am using a subgroup instead of a DCA specifically so I can easily compress and FX each group.
Subgroups are also used to feed the first 4 Sidechain FX slots.
The Matrix is basically a way to internally route signals, to get between various sections, or be able to add eq or compression to a signal in a different way. It's basically a 6 lane buss that various sections can put signal into or take signal out of.
Aux out is I believe 1/4 inch balanced output, and I think it might be limited to stereo pairs or something like that? Or maybe it's limited processing capabilities.
It's like for a record send or running foyer speakers or whatever.
LCR is just the main outputs, with LR being standard stereo, Center generally being LR summed together, but you can also set it up so some things only go to LR and others only go to Center, think of a system with a Center Cluster, and then LR speakers, you might put the sermon mostly or entirely on the center cluster, but have music come from the sides, and a live band with instruments spread across all 3 to get a good dispersion.
I think there is also a Mono feed which would be the LR summed to mono, and it could be used for a center cluster, or for delay fills, balcony, foyer, etc.
A lot of churches are best off running mono entirely because only about 5 people are sitting where they can actually hear stereo in a wide room lol.
So yes, there is a lot of overlap and redundancy, and that's perfect because it gives lots of flexibility depending on operator style and the needs of the facility and setup.
Professional consoles have countless more options and redundancies, because even this one can't do certain setups because it doesn't have enough busses or matrices or whatever lol
So I hope that gives you a better idea of this console!
Oh, and subgroups when used for things like fx and monitors would not be routed to the Mains, because they are feeding other outputs or the internal fx rack, while subgroups used for the vocal group etc would be routed into the LR buss, it's just being used to control the level of the group as a group, before going to the speakers.
Thank you so much for the thorough response! I chuckled a little thinking about the people at church who actually can enjoy stereo lol.
After much planning, im gonna go ahead and attempt to use the subgroups as well since the compression will help the vocals be in front of the band no matter who the volunteer at the mixer is.
When i use a subgroup, will i still be able to apply eq and compression onto the individual channels? Do they act as a fine adjustment and the subgroups is a macro adjustment?
@@Kingdom0324you can put compression and eq on a channel, on a mix buss, or on matrix buss or on the Main busses, and they are all separate.
So you would want to do your room compensation eq on the Mains, the livestream eq and compression on that bus, and then make whatever adjustments you need on each channel there.
It's an art deciding what to put on what location lol
If you just do everything on the channel it will work, but the more you can move to the actual output the better.
And for doing the vocal/band subs, I would put some compression on each channel to help hold the mix together and lift up the quiet singers, and then apply more on the bus to keep it playing well between the band and instruments.
You can use the Gain setting in the compression screen to add makeup gain and compensate for the compression.
And keep compression at a minimum so you don't crush the dynamics too far
When sending a Channel to the Subgroup, there's no need to raise the fader send?
I've got a lingering question in my head: Are there any delay introduced when you pass channels through subgroups before sending them to main LR?
Anyway, great vid as always!
None due to everything being run inside the X32 The only way you'll run into latency issues is running Waves SuperRack or a similar software which is run externally then back into the X32
Youll also experience delay if you insert a x32 rack effect onto a subgroup to my understanding.
@@jericco.
@@jericco. @clarkbush3098 I guess it's either that or by inserting the combinator that is gonna cause some slight delay. Anyway thank you both for the reply.
How do you assign subgroups using m32c with ipad?
Hi, I am a bit confused had the Behringer X32 compact for 3 weeks trying to set up for church .
I thought you taught that you should send the Bus/ Aux to a Matrix then out.
I am trying to set up for FOH and to stream. Not sure how to setup help anyone.
Simple scenes for sale? 🙆
the channel is routed to Subgroups
And the Subgroups is routed to LR
Then What is the use of DCA
Pls ans my question.
I believe you can't do anything on the DCA's except for raising or lowering the volume of the groups. So there would be no extra eq, compression inserts,, fx etc
Drew how can you use wave super rack native and virtual sound check at the same time. Also how can you record during your show and also use waves super rack native.
This is a question I also have. Perhaps there is a different expansion card - one that would provide two USB ports - so one could be used for recording and the other for SuperRack Performer - AND two laptops or computers likely also - though maybe recording is not CPU intensive, so both possible at the same time.
Please does this subgroups with with the aux channels too?
Hi. I'm wondering what the benifit of subgroups is instead of some postfader mixbuses?
I want to make a livestream mix in a matrix that uses some subgroups or mixbuses
Do the Busses NEED to be Linked/Stereo..?
I don't typically Pan anything.....
I'd like to retain Buss 1-4 for Wedges and have Buss 5-8 be ("mono") SubGrp's...
I use Buss 9-16 as 'Dual Mono' FX Returns...I work with ALOT of Cover Bands and need to stay "Flexible:
@DrewBrashler what are some possible reason for AES50 ports failing and is this repairable?
Hello drew! How can i make linked busses strip eq dyn and dly to be dual mono?
When setting up the drums subgroups, should they include the drum reverb? I’m assuming no, because it’s going through separate effects bus to main L/R.
Yes you should actually route your drum reverb back to your drum bus. Same for vocals. It should not go to LR. If it does go to LR, and your effects are post fader, when you turn up individual channels, they will feed the compressor, and your reverb will soon overpower the vocal since it is post fader and feeding LR. If you feed your vocal reverb to the vocal bus, now your reverb will not overpower the vocal since they will both be getting compressed by the vocal bus. That’s how I do it anyways. It’s a Dave Ratt technique
@@Ben_O3149 thank you!
DCA question - I am interested in your thoughts to configure dca s with same sets of channels as these subgroups to be able to easily drive bus compressors further into or out of compression as the music demands. I have a Wing so less constrained on stereo busses - also interested in your opinion on which Wing comp to use for bus compression. Thanks Drew
Have the same board and same questions
DCA IS JUST VOLUME CONTROL, THERE IS NO DINAMICS , IT IS JUST LIKE TAKNG THE FADERS OF EVERY CHANNEL ASSIGNED TO THAT DCA EITHER DOWN. OR UP…ONLY THAT, YOU CAN’T ADD COMPRESSION, GATE OR EVEN EQ.
Hi Drew Brasher, pleas do it on mixer allenhearth SQ serri, thanks you.
Have you ever explored using your X32 solely as a monitor console without using sends on fader? Is it possible?
Yes i did it for years before iever mixed FOH with an x32 console. Just use the send knobs when you select a channel..its easy. Why would you or not want to use SOF? Its really up to your person workflow preference but i generally just use the send knobs per mix bus as im going thru and getting gain and monitors amounts.
Is this concept better than mixing the band, drums/track, voices, and choir mics using DCA groups..?
You can’t add compression or EQ to a DCA
Yes, and no - it depends on your overall needs and available options. DCAs only give you volume control - so, as stated, no DSP options - but if your busses are already being used for IEM/monitor mixes/stream/mother's room/etc. DCAs is one option. Another option (I haven't dug into yet) may be the use of the matrix feature - not sure what is and isn't available on a matrix mix, in terms of DSP, or routing - but they may well be another viable option here or for other things. Many options with a digital mixer.
still send FX direct to LR mix?
How can you use waves and virtual playback using the usb port on the back of the console
I would like to use both at the same time.
Am Daniel how can I contact your directly cos am a sound engineer also
Make video on subgroups on x32 rack
Feedback is always something you have to keep tabs on, but I have mixed live with this method for years and it has always rocked. Also, with the not enough time, I have a starting file for every mixer that I use on the regular that has the routing already done for me. That is the beauty of offline editors.
Thanks for watching and the comment!
@@DrewBrashler I'm sure... I just use the x32 rack and can't seem to make subgroups using the video because they seem to have different layouts between the x32 console and the x32 rack.
Thanks
@@DrewBrashler I would love to see the vids using edit instead of the console, that way (if I'm not mistaken) they would apply to either hardware choice.
process is the exact same as shown in the video just its done with the remote software.
Dave Rat has a Drum Group, and a Round Things Made of Metal Group.
Same idea, just a sassier name lol
Dave Rat is the man!
@@DrewBrashler and you are filling a similar position as Dave in the church sound space. ;)
I have been doing church tech for over 30 years now, but all analog boards until a few weeks ago when I started helping at a small local church that had just upgraded to the X32, and so I am on a crash course of getting comfortable with not having everything on the surface, but also being able to implement all the routing and processing tricks that I have learned from Dave and others over the years, but never been able to implement because I didn't have an outboard rack full of toys, and your videos have been one of the best sources I have found to answer my questions and help me rapidly learn the X32, when I don't even have access to board before sound check! Lol
I really appreciate your camera work so we can always see exactly what's going on, and learn the little tricks that only come through experience or observation.
And knowing how God works, I am probably learning the X32 now because I will probably end up supporting other churches in upgrading to the X32 in the near future! Lol
So thank you for what you are doing, because you are equipping what I am calling the 6th Fold Ministry, the Apostles of Tech!
(Paul forgot to include this because we were very much behind the scenes in his era, but now we literally run the show and facilitate most sharing of the Gospel ;) )
I really appreciate your videos except for one thing - the audio from the mixer seems fairly unclear - like it is whatever your vocal mic is picking up from monitors in your room. I listen in a near studio environment, so am used to hearing subtle differences - but I have trouble with many of your videos. Perhaps it would be possible to patch the audio from the mixer directly into your video/stream and use a ducker for when you are speaking. I really value the content - but the music quality isn't good enough for me to hear the more subtle things you are doing, while on other channels minute changes are easy for me to hear. (My JBL monitors are literally a couple of feet from my ears, with a sub at my feet, so subtle audio and stereo changes are VERY easy for me to hear.)
Thanks for the feedback! In my current video editing workflow, to use a ducker I would have to process my audio outside of Adobe Premiere which would add another step, so I haven't been doing that for time sake. I will reconsider this in the future. Thanks!
That's one disappointment on the Behringer/Midas. Trading off mix busses for subgroups against the wedge buss.
Yeah, but you have to remember this platform came out in August 2012, just shy of 11 years ago. It’s competition was what? Presonus studio live and Yamaha LS9? I think it was pretty robust at the time.