Heihachi, M. Bison & the Worthlessness of Fighting Game Deaths + Exclusive Additional Comments
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- Aaron David Harris - www.adhx2.com
FULL PODCAST EPISODE - • Post EVO 2024 Thoughts...
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MUSIC
Detention Center ~ Dim-lit Rhapsody - The Great Ace Attorney Music
Closing Theme
Andrew One - Slow Moon • Slow Moon
/ andrewoneaware
/ andrewoneaware
/ andrewoneaware
- / @dngmaestro
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#fightinggames
Absolute missed opportunity to just NOT have Heihachi in the storymode and have him be a cool AF non-cannon character like "Nightmare Heihachi".
Yeah no those days are gone now
I'd take Cyber Heihachi over this.
Yeah no I'm good, I want heihachi back every time because he's a legacy character and major fan favorite and moves units! Look at what happened with 3rd strike and the king of fighters that didn't have Mai! They both bombed!
@MagmaMKII
I said a character "like" Nightmare Heihachi.
The point is they had a very, very simple dunk here where they could have just made a new crazy and cool version of Heihachi, like Cyber Heihachi, and then made his alternate skins his classic costumes.
Easiest lay-up in the world that people were talking about as far back as 2016 and Harada and the Funky Bunch missed it.
@DANCERcow
I think you missed the entire point of what I just said.
Agree 100 percent with the last segment. If you know you're gonna bring a character back and not even wait a entire game why kill them off in the first place
Bison and Heihachi are just Saturday morning cartoon villains now.
I mean I feel like Bison has sorta always been like that. But seeing Heihachi going down that route, yeah it kinda sucks.
Bison always was?
Pretty sure they've been for decades at this point.
I like that. Heihachi should be an Akuma/Gouken type figure that pops out randomly for spite and catching fades.
"How can I miss you, if you never go away?" - Jim Cornette
I knew Bison was returning and I even predicted how he would be updated with his body being consumed by psycho power. I wanted him to be on the level of Nightmare Geese or Omega Rugal, but Capcom only went halfway and just made him K'.
Not even. Bison just goes back to being the same villain he was by the end of World Tour. SF6’s new era, nothing changes!
I'm so confused by how many Tekken fans are happy Heihachi is back. If you play him and were bummed out that he was gone, I can understand that, but for anyone else, I don't get it.
Heihachi in Tekken 8 made POINTLESS the entire story mode of Tekken 7.
True
Yeah Tekken 7 was basically just filler lol
Because Jin is Tekken's Overall Protagonist.
@@conradojavier7547except the first 2
He's being used for the Extra Story, not the Main Story.
I’m glad that more people in the FGC are talking about this issue cause it’s been on my mind for a while. Even though the story isn’t the main focus of a FIGHTING game, it feels kinda cheap to set up this world and then not care about it. I don’t want to play a fighting game just to learn the functions of a character. I want to appreciate the whole package, which includes things outside of just the gameplay.
NON-CANONICAL DREAMMATCH
This was how SNK use to deal with revisiting the deceased without mucking up the story with some death cheating bs.
Sadly those days are long gone.
Even Tekken has it's own Non-Canon Spinoff similar to KOF's 98 & 02, It's called Tekken Tag.
The day Bison returned in Street Fighter 6 it was one of the most important days of our lives but for him it was Tuesday....
....Friday actually to be exact😄
I stopped caring about tekkens story in t6. I BEEN done with the SAME Mishima bullshit! Jinpachi,Jin being a villain,kazumi,jun in t8,reina being added is all for nothing,it means nothing. It comes down to the same heihachi vs Kazuya vs jin.
It's a shame you didn't mention Nightmare Geese, the perfect way to keep a character dead while still having them playable
Geese Howard
The whole: "Nobody plays Fighting Game for story" Mentality Is the stupidest argument ever made and the reason why the FGC always remain niche genre because 60% of the casual audience that play for the story and other single player is responsible for your game Selling!!
@@SuperFusionAJ93 AAAAAAAAAMEN
Why would you buy a fighting game just for the story and nothing else? You might as well go on TH-cam for that shit
@@simonjeremy1776 Perhaps they also like the fighting part of it? You cant actively engage with that part of it by just going on TH-cam. There are some casuals who probably do just go to TH-cam and whatnot, but there are pleeeeenty of casuals that simultaneously love the story AND hitting some buttons and playing through the game themselves.
I dont understand why so many people stay acting like there is only one way to enjoy fighting games. As the OP mentioned, this is one of the reasons why the genre is so far behind so many others.
I wished we'd got to see what happened to gill and the illuminate. Did the illuminate fall? Did Alex become Gills new vessel? Did Urien kill Gill and became the new leader? There's so many questions that are left unanswered.
Capcom is pretending they never existed in the first place, even after all the setup in SFV. Why even set this game after SFIII if they're just ignore its events?
@@MagmaMKIIit would have been better if You're either with Team Gill, or Team Urien?
Balrog is not needed, cuz Ed is carrying his Legacy, & He's Happily Retired.
"Guilty Gear collab with Cyberpunk?"
"Over Heihachi's dead body"
"Deal"
" *_*WHAT?*_* "
What do M. Bison, Heihachi Mishima and Mileena have in common?
And am I the only one who's sick of the word "iconic?"
You right about Blanka, Dhalsim, and Honda. I'd rather see what, say, Makoto, Sean, and even Sakura are up to. I'd take Bosch and Chun's student being original characters rather than CaCs.
You are so on point on this video. It's as simple as "Capcom needs to care about the story if they want the fans to care about the story" But it;s really worse than that isn't it. It's not like Akuma or someone on the periphery died and came back. We're stuck in a damn loop. They're clearly building up the return of not just Bison but Shadaloo according to the foreshadowing in Bison's story (getting the four lords back together). We literally just did this in Street Fighter 5. We already did get Shadaloo back together so they can be the antagonists at the end of 4. I like Charlie but damn him coming back would really be the icing on the cake on being stuck in a loop. "Let's do resurrected Charlie vs Bison again but we'll do it right this time we swear". Sigh. Like you I do care about the story, but damn it's an abusive relationship isn't it. Capcom asks us to care and not care at the same time which is just a delusional losing position on their end. Them refusing to play the long game and commit to narrative growth will hurt them just as much as you said.
Honestly I wouldn't mind it if they just made Bison and Heihachi as just characters for the roster and didn't give them story/arcade modes. I know some people would find that utterly stupid considering the rest of the rosters are accessible, but I'm sorry, what they're doing here just makes any potential progression for a breath of fresh air for a new age come crashing down and we'll probably be in an endless circle of repeating events. I know Bison has amnesia, but if they're establishing Shadoolu might be reformed, then what was the point of V's ending with big B's death, huh? I'm also sick of the excuse of "well Fighting Games aren't about stories!" Okay my problem is that to me it just screams laziness on the companies' fear of taking a chance and trying some new ideas for a series and it's cast.
That's what I was thinking it's a win win for both people who want to play as the character again and for people who want the lore to not get confusing.
@@thebloodedge284 Exactly! That can benefit BOTH sides without causing a flame war. I just don't understand why Capcom or Bandai don't try that idea.
Maybe it's how I'm not into SF like that but I didn't mind Bison coming back
Heihachi coming back could be a problem, but I gotta see how that story plays out first
Call it copium but I'm hoping with Kazuya and Jin no longer having the devil gene that Heihachi may be more chill towards them and Reina will be the big bad, hoping that we don't repeat the old patricide story
@@nora-yc6fi I mean I seriously doubt the two would want anything to do the with the old man. He was the catalyst for their problems and I'm sure Jin wants nothing to do with him, Devil Gene gone or not.
Edit: As for Bison, I'm more interested in JP and what he plans to accomplish. Shadoolu ended in V, everyone's moved on, let it be that way!
It’s what I’d do. Also, I’m glad that there’s someone with the exact line of thinking about how I feel about the “well fighting games aren’t about stories!” excuse.
How hard is it to do what Guilty Gear did almost 25 years ago: make the dead characters playable but don't include them in the story, and make all their battle quotes as obviously non-canon as half the ones for the alive characters? Geez.
The crazy thing is that Namco actually did it before...Kazuya was dead from The end of Tekken 2,to Tekken 4...like actually dead...and it worked smh lol
Remember when KOF killed off characters like Rugal, Goenits, team new faces, and others?
And they waited till kof xiv XV(is the game where they were playable again) to bring them back?
Good times
Ever since Verse came to KOF, This Fire Monster Boss of KOF XIV is made of Dead Souls, & once He's Defeated, SNK use Him to make their Non-Canon Dream Match('98 & '02) into a Canon Game.
I feel like at least plot-wise, the revival of the antagonists might be temporary (I hope), since I don’t imagine Kyo and the others are gonna let that slide so easily. I think KOF’s story is the one time I actually do like a character revival since it feels like them being dead actually mattered, and the world has changed quite a lot since they were gone.
I wish Street Fighter creates a Non-Canon Spinoff, so that They don't overshadow the New Characters.
True
@@DEANDRE_DTSif Street Fighter ever has a Non-Canon Spinoff, They'd call it "The Shadaloo Saga".
I'll let Bison slide since they redesigned him and are doing something new with his character regarding the whole amnesia stuff. And plus he has a plot reason for coming back as often as he does. Heihachi is just back with no good explanation as to how he survived getting fried by Demon Lasers, having the life literally punched out of him, and being dropped into lava with no Demon powers of his own to save him. And in the very next game after he died, which I think isn't too long chronologically after 7. Bison died in 5, and was completely gone during the events of the 3 series before returning years later in 6. His resurrection was at least handled decently unlike Heihachi's.
when I first saw Reina, I thought she is cyborg/android of Heihachi... that would be a more interesting... why would they not let them go?!
"Did we really need Dhalsim, Blanka and E. Honda?"
Boy, I have been saying this since the start.
Well the last time those guys weren't in Street Fighter the franchise pretty much died, soooo...
@@pedroportela6476Honda and Blanka have missed some games but yeah, Dhalsim is a staple.
@@mrtblackmann9874
Fuck Dhalsim. Bring back Necro whos way cooler.
I love Heihachi. But he should have come back only for Tekken Tag 3
He shoudlve been in Tekken 8 in the first place just not in the story
@@DEANDRE_DTSno
This does not sound to be writer driven to bring back Heihachi, but purely studio driven.
Bison & Heihachi are like Frieza from Dragon Ball: they die, come back & die again & come back again
Freeza was dead from September 1991 to April 2015. Heihachi didn't stay dead a year into the next game. These are not the same.
@gamerbear84 thats not really fair considering after Z everything else till battle of gods is non canon and even in those Frieza appears. Raging blast 2 movie for example
25:18 wish more people in the FGC understood this.
What this does is take away the gravitas of the story. And you can argue that story doesn't matter in fighting games.... so why put the work in to include these hours long story modes if that were the case?
We don't need Heihachi, we already have Kuma to carry out his legacy as a truest heir of Mishima Zaibatsu
I think half- of the FGC are dead on when it comes to lore they just simply want their character and that's it, as much as it's capable of ruining lore and storylines by their demand these guys will act like zealots when somebody complaints about their characters like bruh, does your character even exist in real life? Butt-Hurt somebody hates your characters? I mean for once they can bring back a character without messing up the story just look at persay GUNDAM ~ nobody cares if that character is dead but making one playable is a bit enjoyable
but SF, Tekken and Mortal Kombat always had that weird urge to add small details of the storyline cause he's now playable. So at this point tekken 7 can become pointless if they don't properly explain something even if they did it's now a stupid excuse for bad writing..
I agree because it feels like the franchise can't grow past these characters despite Street Fighter especially having a large number of villains yo choose from while also setting up new stories for the future but bringing these villains back right away feels like it removes some of the emotional impact of what their death represents such as many Street Fighter characters moving on from Bison's death or Kazuya becoming the main villain in Heihachi's place which helps to push the story forward.
It is a good idea to bring these villains back as what if characters but I think it would be interesting if they brought back Bison's moveset and put it with a new character that possibly shares his evil ambition but does things differently which can carry on Bison's legacy while still keeping him dead like Reina did which is one of the reasons she is popular.
I still say these characters look cool but I do hope people realize that many players play fighting games for the story also.
Why bring back Heihachi,When Kazuya Already Dethrone his Dad as the New Top Dog?
That wolf save Heihachi life
Somehow heihachi came back
Verse resurrection effect.
That at least lasted for multiple games
Like... 1997 to 202x (idr when XIV came out)
I hope Capcom puts G in Street Fighter 6 because what happened in Rose's story that she had to go back in the past to stop what ever G going to do.
Cuz G is Short for Gaea.
A Street Fighter Reboot is THE Most Logical Choice, since Capcom Refuse to Move On without Shadaloo.
@@conradojavier7547 I love to Capcom bring characters from Capcom Fighting All-Stars D.D. Ingrid. Rook. Avel. Dark Ingrid. to Street Fighter 6.
@@streetfighteringrid2446would be insane but i doubt it.
Iconic as they may be , they overstayed their welcome , especially Bison : he did everything he could and is just a source of fan service at this point , for the sake of storytelling stay put for ONCE and go back when we get a dream match of some sort with NO story implications
Here’s my take. I kinda agree. I didn’t want either Bison or Heihachi in these games. JP was the perfect replacement for Bison, and his storyline seems more intriguing considering he too wields psycho power and could’ve been trying to start a new Shadaloo. As for Tekken, well Reina was confirmed to be related to Heihachi so I was thinking she was going to be set up as a potential antagonist for a Tekken 9. But nah. Gotta bring back the OGs. Can’t let them stay dead too long.
Now, let me play devils advocate for a little bit. I didn’t want Bison, but I ended up getting him and playing him a little bit because he won me over with his gameplay. His gameplay in SF6 is easily the best the character has ever been in the franchise, in my opinion. Bison at least has the redeeming factor of his gameplay being good this game. Unfortunately, I don’t think I can say the same for Heihachi. Because we all know how Heihachi plays. He’s easily the most basic, boring Mishima(again in my opinion). Even his son Kaz has more sauce than him. And Kaz just learned what his father taught him. Heihachi I never liked as a character and I never liked his gameplay either. So while I agree, Heihachi being in this game is good money wise and plus he’s one of many faces of the series, if not THE face of the series, I don’t think I’m ever gonna touch him because I do not care for his gameplay.
I want the stories to progress, too, Homie, but sadly writing isn't SNK, Capcom, and Namco's strong point. ArcSys, Atlus, Type Moon, and French Bread has better writing, my friend.
Heihatchi is like the mascot of Tekken. Him not being in the next game is like Ryu not being in the next street fighter game. Though for story purposes, you can still say that he's dead, but he's not gonna be in the story mode.
That would actually be Jin as he is on almost all Tekken covers and the one to resolve the Mishima family feud so...
They both could have been base roster like we could have had someone like g,gill any of the third strike cast
And heihachi just should have been base or nightmare like now the Mishima story will never end and no other characters will shine not to mention the fact all the season one characters so far are from the last game
Agree with all your points on both M.Bison and Heihachi.
I knew for a fact that Capcom was gonna pull something like a returning villain back but not Tekken because of how both Tekken 7 and 8 ends where it was a defining moment for both Kazuya and Jin but after seeing the announcement at EVO for Heihachi's return, all of that got thrown out the window and now just made Reina feel invalidated because she was "suppose" to be Heihachi's replacement.
At this point, i gave up on Capcom in fleshing out the story for the new generation because it just seems that every time they make a new game, they have to tie it with nostalgia which, like you, i was getting tired of and having to make new villains like Necalli for SFV or JP for SF6 and only just toss them aside because they're not confident in letting them continue on the story.
At this point, depending if the writers for the extra story DLC for Tekken 8 will explain how Heihachi is back, it still won't matter since they wasted a perfect ending for him and now we're back to square one.
Glad thay SNK is possibly the only fighter that still cares about their story even though its hard for newer fans to keep up but at least they still care about it.
Good video though and glad that I'm not the only one who cares about the story 👍
I want to see a Bloody Roar guest in Tekken 8 namely Yugo. Personally seeing the two series clash with a BR guest would be hype.
Claudio and Charlie Nash
To me Heihachi would have been great for Tekken 8 DLC if he wasn't canon to the story. I thought with Kazumi in Tekken 7 being a playable dead character from decades ago is proof that you can bring someone back who doesn't need some demon summoning shenanigans to be in the game. I mean Jinpachi for example could be a DLC character with either no story or some side story that has nothing to do with the main story directly. It all feels short sighted of the Tekken Team.
Also both B. Nison, & Heihachi has a New Seiyuu named Taiten Kusunoki.
Personally, I wished instead of Heihachi, the tiger masked monk was a new character that probably run a Mishima dojo to take over the Zaibatsu in the future since I love the idea of Tekken Monks but I don’t think Heihachi returning was necessary here. Though I think the monks reviving Heihachi via blood ritual could be interesting since it would kind of be a Tekken 2 reference but still, it is the same problem I have with Bison’s return where he was killed indefinite in SFV but then return. Now like Heihachi, I will give credit and say the amnesia angle is pretty cool but again, I still think it isn’t needed for Bison to return that soon since we already have JP and Ed to continue there legacy, I mean, Ed runs Neo Shadoloo. Now I not saying these characters should die forever but I think it was way too soon. At least have it be built like with Ash’s revival in Kof15 and keep in mind, I am not the biggest fan of Ash but I thought his return was actually done pretty well. Also, nice, a fellow wrestling fan.
If you Banned Capcom from Bringing back the "2" Characters, Sakura, Dan, & Rose has so much Many Appearances.
M.Bison & Fang
Tekken's been declaring Mishimas dead and bringing them back for decades. Why are people acting shocked now?
@ThatGuy-me8wb Did you see what you just said? Theyve been doing this "for decades".
I really wish people like you would stop with this whole "why are you shocked" talking point.
People who are critical of this aren't "shocked", they are TIRED of them doing the same thing over and over and over...whilst trying to tell/progress a story. People who are critical of this arent like "😱", they are saying "Do something different".
When they've been doing this "for decades" whilst also trying to build a narrative, it guts the narrative & it makes deaths meaningless.
Like I said in the second half of this video, if you know damn well you're going to bring back a character (especially because of popularity), just dont kill them off.
...and to be more specific, people are more critical of this in terms of a longtime antagonist dying, a new one seemingly being brought in to replace them (hence seemingly starting a new storyline/narrative), but then immediately bringing back the old antagonist.
As one other person mentioned, they actually kept Kazuya down for a couple of games after killing him off. Not only was that effective because they didnt cheapen his death by instantly bringing him back, but it also made way for a new protagonist who became quite popular. That works.
With Heihachi, they just brought him back immediately after making it seem like him dying in Tekken 7 was some critical big deal. Again, they brought in Reina to basically take the helm only to bring him back immediately. Im not gonna say much else about him, because again...that part of the story hasnt come out yet.
Better beva good eeason went heihachi looks young like he dipped in raising al gul pit.
even Neatherealm Studio Not only brought back Shao Kahn, & Shang Tsung, but you play as Younger versions of these 2 Villians in the Now Re-Rebooted MK1.
only because of Lord Shinnok and a brainwashed/mind-controlled Queen Sindel's unceremonious slaughter of several Kombatants before Warner Bros acquired Midway and many (not all) of the latter's 1st-party franchises
I will keep saying in the comment sections till the heat death of the universe: I love fighting games as a business. I want Geese to come back, too. I want all the bad decisions to be made, so bad that even the most removed people are forced to see it. I've been fed up since T7 tried to tell me that Heihachi was supposed to be a sympathetic villain. The people who are only concerned with the gameplay will tell you that the story doesn't matter, but if that was the case, why do these companies keep going out of their way to waste money and time to put it in their games? Seems like a failure to communicate. Heihachi could've been a non-canon addition, and still respect the canon's decision to have him live on in the bits of his moveset that other characters have, but Tekken Project's bank account went overdraft one morning lmao
Street Fighter is just doing its usual thing where they introduce a new protagonist and villain just to throw them in the trash in favor of more World Warrior/SF2 iconography. They are scared of taking a chance, and it shows. I like Luke, his SF5 self more than his SF6 self, but he amounts to nothing in his own story. 5 set him up good with the backstory and anti-terrorism, just for him to meander next game. JP is a legit different breed of villain for SF6, but he too, will receive the same shaft.
I love this Forever War-ass genre, and I'd love even more to see it all burn down to the ground. These companies don't respect you, and e-sports is just an avenue to ignore non-competitive aspects of a game when (as a product) they are all a sum of their parts. Shit, I hope they put TWO Heihachis in the game.
first rugal and goentiz in the past now followed by bison now heihachi what's next? geese howard?
@@winterice2022 lmao everyone thinks Geese is next.
Yall are gonna speak that into existence 🤣
I think it's nightmare geese.
@@TheChrisLotus ahahaah lol🤣
@@thebloodedge284 eh probably
Geese is already alive in the KoF Continuity, but we'll have to see in the Fatal Fury Universe.
Like I said: If SNK brings back Geese, in Garou 2, I wouldn't be surprised or mad. They can say Verse had something to do with it. I don't know, I don't care. I just want to see where these three stories end: Fatal Fury, Tekken, and Street Fighter.
It seems like SNK didn't care about Shun'ei, cuz He's Created to Appeal to China.
Also They have a New Character called Vox who's Carrying Grant's Legacy.
@@conradojavier7547while there's already Athena (who from time to time has embraced Chinese fashion designs), Kensou and Master Chin
@@conradojavier7547I wish they would give Krauser a student who would show up to take revenge for her master's defeat.
Screw it Gulity gear Bring back justice also editing this so I don't have to write another comment just watched all the segements and good atuff
How? The host of Justice is alive as of Strife. Maybe a duplicate model? But we've seen what "duplicate models" have done already(Kyo clones of KOF's NESTS saga)...
@@Ticketman99 I was just joking
To be fair, there seems to be a theory that the new character, Unika, seems to be related to Justice in some way sooooooo.... we'll see.
@@MetaKnuxXbeats A fourth Aria clone, after Elphelt, Ramlethal and Jack-O from Xrd? Lol
@@Ticketman99 That’s actually one big misconception when it comes to the Valentines. Not all the Valentines are related to Aria but the first one’s appearance from Guilty Gear 2 Overture is based on Aria and Jack-O is made as vessels for Aria. In Raven’s Xrd Arcade mode prologue, there seems to be another Valentine that would be a vessel for I-No called “Happy Chaos” which “The Original” (Asuka’s master) decided to take the name for himself. Considering that Unika dose bare a slight resemblance to I-No and kind of had Happy Chaos’s colors, maybe she is that Happy Chaos unit Raven and Jack-O were talking about in that arcade mode opening. I could be wrong though.
I rather force ghost heihachi
It's Sad when a Schoolgirl in a Headband & a Karate Master in Pink has More Appearance than Any Necro, Sean, Remy, & Twelve.
M.Bison & Heihachi are ultimate cashgrabs 😂
🤭