Game of Thrones Finale: Is It Deep or Dumb? - Wisecrack Edition
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Now that Game of Thrones is over, it's time to ask: is this milestone in television deep or dumb?
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They say every time a book is adapted the gods flip a coin...
and the world holds its breath
Lemme award you gold
The gods are cheaters then, seeing films these days it's pretty obvious the coin has two same sides xD
jojojojoost LoL yeah
Wait when had it worked when the films or TV ran out of source materials from the book. Is there any? I don't think so.
That voice over proved they failed as story tellers. You should not need to remind us that madness runs in the family through a cheap voice over rehash of previous episodes. Pathetic.
The fact that HBO was prepared to pay for 12 seasons pisses me off more.
You want more time with D&D as writers!!???
Rushed or slowly is the same if you don't know how to write.
That’s what is bothersome most of all. They could have built a monster ending but instead it whimpered
Pat Sylvia No stupid Thats what GRRM said in his interview that is on youtube
Pat Sylvia Hey Dumb&Dumber sign in with your real account before commenting please.
Pat Sylvia you just mad i checked you swifter than Neds beheading.
Shoutout to Drogon for having the wisdom to understand a third-person perspective on what truly killed Dany, as opposed to what technically killed her.
Did the iron throne cause her to murder the innocents? Were the innocents preventing her from attainment? I think not. The city surrendered and yet she torched the city. As a result of the massacre, she was assassinated, as opposed to as a result of her wanting the throne. Thus I don't believe the throne got her killed. She went crazy and that got her killed. She's a targryan and was apparently going crazy either way, regardless of the throne. The coin flipped unfavourably for her remember. Ie. This season has been disgusting.
The books made a big deal talking about how intelligent dragons were, so I think it's reasonable to argue that Drogon understood that Dany had gone off the deep end and that Jon killed her because she never would have stopped on her own, not out of any desire to hurt her or for power. In that context, Drogon melted the Iron Throne as a symbolic warning to not make the same mistakes Dany did, as much as he also did it for catharsis as he grieved for her.
Kendall Brown Drogon doesn’t know what a fucking throne is man.
His wisdom was temporarily conferred on him by Benioff and Weiss, to get him and Dany’s dead body out of there quickly.
The Drogon who melted the iron throne and spares Jon understood that power corrupts and would not have allowed itself to be used to nuke a city. The Drogon that burnt the city would not have spared Jon and disappeared. Either something happened that we don’t see (Bran or Dany as she’s dying wargs Drogon) or even the dragon was inconsistent and out of character.
And only 90 years later the great grandson of Jon Snow starts an invasion of the north in order to reclaim his birthright of the 7 kingdoms as a Targaryen....
*curb your enthusiasm theme song starts playing*
Baby Jon will be the next King beyond the Wall and Tormund’s daughter will be his wife. He’ll get over the Wall, seize Winterfell, descend the Neck, devastate the Riverlands, conquer King’s Landing and will sit on the Iron Throne.
Oops it won’t exist anymore. He’s gonna have to build a new one
Or maybe Jon becomes the new night knight
Wait........
What were the Conditions?
Jon can't marry someone nor have children, right?
@@chanceroberts7494 no fuck that lol
I laughed so hard when I saw Bronn had become the master of coin. Literally a guy who dosen't know what a loan is.
you'd think that bran, being so wise, might have an objection to this. Another example of why he wasn't actually a good fit as ruler
master of war would be more fits for him
My thing about it is, if you can make a king you can unmake him. And that isn’t a king. Just get a new king and go on. Democracy ruins fantasy.
@@cain7925 Or just, what he always wanted, being Lord of a Castle. Not sure why he gave up High Garden to go and have a job in KL
It's call the Peter Principle. An observation that the tendency in most organizational hierarchies, such as that of a corporation, is for every employee to rise in the hierarchy through promotion until they reach a level of respective incompetence.
It's not impossible to think that Bronn coud negociate is way to the top without any skills. He didn't had any skill as a monarch either to rule over a castle and no one bat an eye before.
"Deep or dumb?" It's both. It's deep dumb. It's plumbing the deepest depths of dumbness. There. Any more questions?
No, sir.
This is the most accurate answer
Me after watching Season 8
Syrio Forel: What do we say to the God of death?
Me: Please Today
-Season 8
Stannis: A lie, take it out!
😂😂
Syrio: what do we say to -
Me: let me stop you right there. You mean nothing. Your storyline means nothing. All of this was meaninglessness.
Please before I watched this stupid sh...t ending! :)
The writers "kinda forgot" a lot of things on season 8. Such a disappointing ending to one of the best tv shows ever.
The best
@@maxzaslove6897 Didn't you see season 8? kinda hard now to call it the best ever.
@@gottalight3574 That's why he said it was *"disappointing"*
Meanwhile Deadwood finally got it's finale and it was great.
@Ex- Men The Wire
More thought was put into this analysis than into season 8.
More thought was put into your comment than into season 8
More thought was put into what I want for breakfast than season 8
I honestly think that John Snow petting his doggo is the one thing preventing GoT fans from fully rioting in the streets. Without that one scene America would've became Mad Max.
Alexander Vaucrosson Yet in the episode where he leaves the wall, he can’t pet ghost cos ‘it’s too hard for cgi’ or whatever bullshit they came up with.
@@seanbailey317 I read a comment that his pet in the end is reused footage from an earlier season. I guess they found their way around that cgi issue...
So postponing the inevitable?
Alexander Vaucrosson anericas shit, no one would care if it turned into mad max
you say that like thats a bad thing
Season 9: The Wheelchair that will Mount the World!
excellent
My first thought at them naming Bran king was "Oh my god, they're gonna have to build so many wheelchair ramps, the Red Keep is so not wheelchair accessible."
She gets replaced by the NSA 😂😂😂
You didn't mention that Sam actually proposed a democracy but all the main characters of the series just laughed at him.
People often laugh at novel ideas, that part is true to life.
@@vebdaklu It's not novel in asoiaf universe though, look at the Ironborn's Kingsmoot
@@10ReasonsWhy or the various free cities and their merchant republics.
The peasants are treated so horribly by the Nobels it would be impossible for the Nobels to feel good about giving them power in Government
Audience: " We want complex Characters and intrigue."
DnD: "No. We want Zombie Bears and Dragons."
I don't mind if they throw a couple of war elephants also... 😜
I wanted those elephants.
The show without Dragons would be bad.
The REAL enemy of character development is SHOCK VALUE.
I mean, is it too much to ask for both?
Sheepy can you explain what DND is?
Wouldn't Dorne and the Iron Islands claim independence from a weakened sovereignty? Wouldn't some of the Northern lords rebel from Sansa since then actually chose Jon? Does Bran being the Three-eyed Raven actually make him a good ruler?
These are the kind of things that Martin would ask to separate from Tolkein. But the writers of the show just wanted it to end.
They could have divided westeros into seven independent kingdoms. Or restore Jon to the throne and what about the wildlings shouldn't they be rewarded like integrate them to the north citizenship. Who will sansa marry?
Edit: divided westeros will only lead to more wars, but it does make sense because Targaryen builded their unity by fire & blood and ended with that same way.
Tyrion: So everybody is gonna be king but I'm the imperator.
nobody in the north would rebel. that's long over and done with by this point. jon doesn't want to challenge his sister, and probably never will.
I don't think the Northern lords would rebel, because when Jon and Sansa did this co-ruler thing, they all agreed with her, while Jon did his own thing.
Sansa cares about the North and listens to the lords.
(you could also say that they agreed to her ruling them of-screen, since she went to represent them and was crowned without protest, but that's stupid)
@@elineverstraeten1872 Most of the lords probably wouldn't rebel, but with examples like the Boltons, Frays, Umbers, and Karstarks, it only takes one leader of a house to claim that they shouldn't have to follow Sansa or her successors.
You forget when he told Sansa he "could never be lord of anything" 🙃
Also, he knows everything that ever happened. Wouldn't that make him a great librarian in the Citadel? How can a king who lives thousands of years be a good thing?
Bran isn't going to live for thousands of years, the Three Eyes Raven straight up told him so
Why wouldn't an all-knowing all-seeing being free from pety desires be a good king? Aside from the lack of desires driving him to hunt Dragons rather than manage a Kingdom, of course. 🙃
"What do we say to the God of Good Writing?"
Dn'D: "Not today."
Wahaha!
Well, that was certainly true for this season of GoT.
Not all think the way you both do.
@@ATH-camchannel1448 Yeah idiots don't think it's bad.
@@timothypolanco8622 name calling is not good writing
@@ATH-camchannel1448 And what are we supposed to do with that information, Captain Obvious?
Question: Deep or Dumb?
Answer: Dumb & Dumber
Connor Kent! Derp and Derper...
That answer was not as deep and complex as I like...anyway, the silliest thing in the whole series for me has to be a prisoner in chains informing all the rulers how it's gonna be from then on...and everyone so high on throne fumes has a big love-in. It was, in a way, everything GoT wasn't.
Season 8 was an insult to the viewers intelligence
Dick und doof
Season 8 was trash.
do i need a 22 minute video to answer the question in the title? no
am i still going to watch it? absolutely
exactly XD
The fact that you decide to make a 'deep or dump' episode instead of a 'philosophy of...' one, says it all
PREACH.
The serial was dumb from the get go!
Adela Setara no, making the series before the books were finished was dumb. The story itself is only dumb to those with a short attention span.
@@birgittabirgersdatter8082 Everyone who is critical of the media you like has a short attention span? Yeah, this argument is almost as dumb as the series you like.
@@Analysis_Paralysis "Everyone who is critical of a medium" (not media; that's the plural) is surely not calling it dumb. People who are critical of the show are calling out the problems while acknowledging what it achieves - subverting and redefining modernday Fantasy media - not going around calling it "dumb" as if they lacked appropriate vocabulary to express their problems with the show.
Game of Thrones Finale: Is It Deep or Dumb?
...
Does anyone really wonder?
It's dumb because it failed to be deep, good ideas but shit execution
Ikr it isn’t even worth analyzing. It was dumb as fuck and ridiculously rushed and badly written
It started deep, with all the implications, and gradually got dumb with each season . . . .
Radiyas 13 The sad thing is some of the fan theories really had me expecting a Lovecraftian kind of plot twist ending, HBO should have had Redditors and youtubers be a part of the writing...
You know it's bad when you look back at Wisecracks video predicting who would sit on the throne... a lot better endings in the comments than what actually happened to the show.
@8:20 "Sansa wanted to free the Northern small folk from tyrants" - Sorry, gonna have to call BULLSHIT on that, Jared.
Sansa never wanted to free anyone - she wanted to BECOME the tyrant.
Which is why she betrayed Jon by breaking her vow to keep the secret of his lineage; she intended for Jon to take the iron throne, and then become 'Queen of the North'.
Things didn't turn out exactly as she had hoped, but she still ended up becoming 'Queen of the North' after manipulating the council to select Bran as King, then seceding from the realm with her brother's permission.
The thirst for power is a central theme of the show, after all. The victims can be as guilty of it as their aggressors.
I think you put more thought into this than Weiss and Benioff did
Yeah the video is deeper than season 8 writing
Everyone put more thought into this except the writters
it is as if a monkey took a nosedive in a paint container and decided to drag his balls across canvas and this guy saw the result and strained to figure out what the artist was trying to say...
As did several TH-camrs,fans, composers,lyricists, and basically everyone except the writers who were actually paid to do so
Benioff and Weiss are pushy business midgets, they are not what I would call creative people.
*-Dumb.*
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.
The final season felt like...
You know when your at a restraunt and you get there 1hr before they close. They sit you down and take your order then start to flip all the other chairs onto the tables and cleaning everything around . Like hurry up and leave feeling
It's dumb
This is wisecrack and thank you for watching.
I really look forward to the remake in 20 years!
Game of Thrones : Brotherhood
Oh I dont... it was already a slightly tedious show ... let it be done.
@@Daelyas your dumb
It'll somehow be worse
The writing was a bit rushed. But still good.
The writers are the spokes on the wheel, crushing the fans on the ground.
Dexter and GoT both ended with the protagonist moving to a northern forest to live as a lumberjack #montypython
Lmao for some reason I like the Dexter ending or at least I tell myself that...
Sounds OK to me
That's so good, I demand an addition to the Dexter ending. Dexter sits down on his chair and suddenly a couple of Canadian mounties enter and cue the Luberjack song.
Jon became the king of the free folk. Don't be childish
Herman Spaerman I’m a lumberjack and I’m okay I sleep all night and work all day . Oh never mind ☮️😎
Me: I'm so bored of these GOT reaction videos, I'm never watching another!
Wisecrack uploads a GOT reaction video
Me: oooh this will be good. Click!
That about sums it up
Guilty af
ikr ! hahaha
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.
Pretty much
I like your "power corrupts" segment. Having power means there are limited (or no) mechanisms of accountability that restrain a person's inclinations or behavior. The show itself is an example of that abuse of power. Dan & Dave didn't have to answer to anybody, and everyone around them was either too obsequious or too grateful to be on the show to criticize them. The destruction that results from such absolute power, albeit here it's in the limited sphere of the" Game of Thrones show world," is evident in the absolute collapse of the show over the last few seasons. Perfect metaphor for that message.
That's not a bad thought, but one that's a little bit meta. The idea was to analyse the writing, not the men who wrote it. It's clear they messed up, but it's more important to see how they messed up.
agree. in the end they cared more about the subversion and cool visuals than a good story...which is a complete break from early seasons where their were no epic visuals or epic battles but great story telling and surprises that actually made sense. Its almost like making lots of money and getting a bigger budget ruined what people were first drawn to the show for.
Power corrupts everyone
And taking the generic fantasy route.
I think it's partially the other way around too. They lost a lot of the source material when going off the books and they didn't know how to write well so they had more and more epic visuals to substitute.
@@Evija3000 Exactly, there's a huge difference between adapting something (which they did very good) and inventing something from scratch. Buuut, if they knew their limitations, they weren't humble enough to accept them, thus insisting on writing most of the final season themselves, when even some fans had better ways to end the show.
Subversion storytelling feels so trendy these days.
Nice to see a calm explanation of the show’s flaws, as opposed to blind rage
Take a look at this
th-cam.com/video/I8U6kjqLkJQ/w-d-xo.html
of course there has to be that guy...
I'd say anti-hero "Prince Charming" was definitely Jaime Lannister and not Joffrey Baratheon, Joff is just a spoiled brat
I didn't expect the Long Night to be a single long night. The spiral symbol represents the expectations going down the toilet, that is some good foreshadowing D&D!
Yea, I didnt like that this dude thought that the NK fight should have been before the throne.. the whole season 7 was about how it wouldn't matter who is on the throne if they are all dead..
@@ML-yn9yu It really didn't did it? By the end hardly anyone cared. It might have made a little more sense if there had actually been a proper battle for the throne after the NK death but it lasted a couple minutes with a clear winner, then genocide and every other episode was filler. There was no point to any of it, if they wanted the battle for the throne to be the main issue they could have had... a battle for the throne? What were those 2 episodes in Winterfell for if it was going to end that quickly? The NK could have died in episode 1 and have the fucking squabble for the throne the rest of the season, otherwise you get a bunch of filler episodes!
haha :D there are just too many problems with season 8 , I dont think that nobody can talk about all of them , fact that this mad queen thing came almost out of nowhere, they didnt build up this moment at all , fact that whole point was "breaking the wheel" and still after Dany is dead, who are the people who decide who is going to be the next king? LORDS OF WESTEROS, most powerful people of the westeros....not the real surviving people , If I remember correctly then one of these lords even laughed at the idea of real people electing their own leaders....so what was the point of the whole show? And I cant even talk about the "long" night....what? Like first long night lasted decades and now this one is just....15 minutes and didnt have any impact on the show either, fact that dothraki and unsullied were dying in the ong night but then when its time for final battle they just show up like nothing happened...
@@HK-gm8pe And if we look into it. What was the big impact of Daenerys? She freed a city that revolted and is still filled with slaves, one of those three guys that planned the cup is still alive, which means that he will just keep doing slavery with her gone. By the time she arrived at Westeros the last Lannisters and Starks were already screwed and she spent one week in King's Landing before dying. The Dothraki are going to disband back into whatever they were and most of the Unsullies she freed died so... there is little to no difference between her crazy ass existing or not.
The long night was 10 hours, normal nights are 9 hours.
“But unlike Twitter, we want to give this show a fair shot”
*Fair* shots fired Wisecrack
Curious_ Pizza I’d say 80% of criticism of twitter is fair and reasonable though, and the 10% on either side are overblown by each other and that’s all you see.
@@CHIEF__ That sounds very scientific.
@@Cursed_Mark lmao exactly. That entire comment encapsulates Twitter.
Shots faired
Alex Angerman I agree I’m just quoting what they said in the video
Thanks for shitting on D&D. It felt really good.
Dumb. Just plain dumb.
I’d pay for a team of animators to redo the last two seasons with new writers.
That's a really good idea!
Let's do the last 4 please.
Dorne and victarion deserve justice, Arya deserve to learn actually interesting stuff, John deserve not to be completely incompetent, and Tyrion, varys and littlefiger deserve to remain intelligent.
Do it
I would go to season 2 :D but seriously I think that the series shoud have made a commitment to do something like 12 seasons or start to diverge from books earlier and be lighter in content to end with proper conclusion
But we can't pull a people from the current main stream animation studios.......far to much going in and liberal we need grassroots movement
The only people who are happy with the finale season of GoT are the Lost writers. Finally, they're not the worst.
And Rian Johnson!!!!
They havn't been for many years. Since Dexter ended to be exact. And I would still rank the Lost finale below GoT.
Both of those were long ago and people seem to have forgotten just how bad they were.
@@DerMoerpler Dexter was a bad way to end the story, but at least the finale wasn't the crux of the whole series. All of Lost was built on dragging you along by building up and teasing a mystery. B/c of that, the finale's solution retroactively makes the entire series worse.
This is why I'd say it's the worst finale until GoT, and it's arguable if it isn't still the worst. They're close in my book as they both hurt the rewatch in such a fundamental way.
@@thisguydan GoT finale had a bigger impact because seasons 5-7, while not as strong as the first 4, were still good. Lost and Dexter on the other hand got worse over time, so the bad ending didn't hurt as much.
I can see your point on Dexter, though I'm not sure that makes it better or worse than GoT. I'll find that out on a rewatch, and how much the series suffers retroactively (GoT that is, I'm not spending my limited time on earth rewatching Dexter).
I'd argue that Lost has the worst ending. That is because I'm not against most of the plot developments in GoT on principle but on execution. I could see ending up where they did if it just was told in a more complex and logical and less rushed way, whereas the ending of Lost is just a complete garbagefire alltogether.
I definitely agree that the GoT endpoints were fine - it was the lack of coherent development in getting us there.
Every answer in Lost led to more questions. The story was built upon the promise of a satisfying explanation which ended up being a cop-out. GoT at least had satisfying resolutions along the way, making it a better rewatch.
That said, and maybe it's the recency of it, but GoT finale still feels like the biggest disappointment to date. It was the most watched show, enormous budget and talent, HBO asking them to please take their money and all the time they needed to finish the story, an incredible story at that, and they basically chose to do a half-ass job to leave early. The finale of one failed because of a lack of imagination; the other because the writers stopped caring and chose to skip out on a dedicated audience who've followed for years. That makes it a bigger sore spot than Lost to me.
Everyone: Well, The Last Jedi was the biggest disappointment ever.
D&D: Hold my Starbucks
I loved the last Jedi. Best star war 🤷🏼♂️
@@wgo523 nah, still empire
I actually loved the Last Jedi
I love this comment so much.
@Your Immortal Compagnion Its going to be controversial but I really enjoyed what they did with Luke. The idealistic hero who became a disillusioned and bitter old man was a good surprise for me.
I'm also a big fan of Kylo Ren, he reminds me of Zuko from TLA. Now you have to know that Inwas never really a Star Wars fan before the new generation cam in.
Fans : We want a good ending.
D&D : Let's subvert their expectations....
Fallout Fans : We want another great Fallout.
Bethesda : Fallout 76.
and/or
Star Wars Fans : Please don't fuck up Star Wars.
Disney : Star Wars The Last Jedi.
@@flamesofchaos13 Fully agree with you ;)
@@lapolicedelapensee7047 We apparently live in an age where media companies and the writers of said companies..Just don't give a single amount of shit.
@@flamesofchaos13 - I think that they are over-estimated and in fact, it's just a whole generation of incompetent writers who are too used to compensating for their lack of genius, by exploiting the rise of special effects and 3D.
subverting expectations is not a bad thing, a game of thrones is all about that where good people/bad people die, where's the "grey people" who are not bad or good keep on living.
That 1984 joke was double plus good
😂😂 you still remembered the newspeak
"Tyrion wants to free the people from tyrants who don't have a good elevator pitch" LOL. Spot on. That ending made no sense whatsoever.
When Wisecrack spends more time thinking about the ending of GOT than Dave & Dan...
What might be even more sad is if D&D thought their asses off and this is the best they could come up with.
Dumb and Dumber
I still feel like all the final seasons problems come back to one thing.
*It was rushed!*
The ideas from George that D&D were playing with *could* have been deep if they’d been fleshed out more. If they’d drawn this out over more episodes, Dany’s descent into madness could’ve made more sense and post omniscience Bran could’ve gotten more character development that would inform us how he’d serve as king. And maybe if the show had an epilogue attached to the finale, taking place years later, the weird ambiguity muddling the show’s takeaway message would have been addressed too. Hopefully we’ll get that with the last two books.
Yes and no. Every time when I see this argument it just feels as surface level as anything. To the best of our knowledge D&D knew about Bran being king since the end of Season 4, at the very least. And what was their first creative decision knowing this information? They almost left Bran out from Season 5 completely. This is what confuses and frustrates me the most. Because Got wasn't your typical tv show from a writing standpoint. It wasn't HIMYM, they did not have to make up/rush the ending at the last minute. They had a whole show to build towards it. Or at least 4 whole seasons when they were in sole charge. And they f*cked up royaly. And that is why I think that even with 20+ more episodes we would have been just in the same position.
Dany is the prime example of my argument. I do not think that they needed more time to convince us that she is "mad" (oh God, how I despise this trope. MADNESS IS NOT A MENTAL DISORDER, but whatever) or bad. She was only ever good because she was fighting with cartoon villains. Don’t get me wrong, given the right framing she is one of the best tragic characters ever. But she was destined to fall in the end, she had three dragons, a lust for power, and she was falling upwards from Season 2. And at the same time she ate up everyone’s POV around her just to hide this. (leading it to really questionable things, hi white savior trope, and stupid&useless Varys&Tyrion&Jon) Basically they continued with this approach until after the very last minute. Just to sell her madness as a twist? I guess. Again given different framing, her descend would have been awesome. Give back Tyrion&Varys their remaining brain cells and make them more wary about her behavior from Season 5. Or make her cult of personality more dominant amongst the people she “freed”. Give Jon scenes where he confirms he only used her and doesn’t love her. Because with a slight change in framing everything would have been more predictable and clear. She burnt the Tarllys and Tyrion&Jon had to talk her out of burning down KL TWICE in Season 7. Narratively it wasn’t rushed. But they needed ambiguity to make Episode 5 shocking.
And that's why I don't have any sympathy left towards D&D.
This and what I like to call The Dothraki Problem. Every time I think about the end and try to make sense of it, or think, you know maybe creating an ending without ANY context was their way of saying something profound? And then I remember how the Dothraki was wiped out in episode 3, then multiplied by mitosis by episode 4&5 and then was forgotten by episode 6. You can say that this is just a small problem, and it is, really, compared to everything in Season 8. But the treatment of the Dothraki takes away all will left in me to approach this text in good faith. Why bother? The creators clearly didn’t. (I mean clearly they did, they seem to have too big of an ego just to not care, but again, they failed miserably)
Of course we needed more episodes for a great ending, even with competent writers. But we did not need more episodes for a decent ending. For example, just make GW kill Dany, because he blames her for Missandei’s death and he realizes that she is just an other master after all. With this you can justify killing Missandei in that horrible way and tell something about the white savior trope, and you avoid a man-killing-his-love trope. Three birds with one stone. You don’t want Jon to be king? His parentage means nothing and he doesn’t kill the NK? Good, then let us see his misery and his search for meaning. Give us scenes where we find out what he thinks about his life! Give us scenes with the Starks, so we have an emotional connection to them, so we care about their ending, and it doesn’t feel utterly empty. Jfc, this is writing 101. For this we did not need even a minute more of this show, we just needed good writers.
And if we have time to listen to Tyrion's awful jokes and Tormund's backstory (he is one of my favs, but it really wasn't necessary) then we literally have time for anything. (sorry for my english and for the long essay, I'm just really pissed)
tess064 hey 100000% agree!!! Preach!! I know you and 1000 others could have written a better ending. This is why I hate Hollywood!
@@tess064 Good points overall and thanks for the reminder that "To the best of our knowledge D&D knew about Bran being king since the end of Season 4, at the very least." As for the ending, Grey Worm "kill[s] Dany because he blames her for Missandei’s death and he realizes that she is just an other master after all." That's brilliant!
Im good... I blame the head. Grrm couldve worked with them . they paid him to stay away. Also grrm knows in his heart that he never intended to finish thesr books. He dangles his new bs in our faces. He admits that essos is mostly grrm stealing stories and lore from hp lovecraft and his demonic writings. Its pathetic writing. Screw this dude grrm imma say it! There is no such thing as "world building" its a retarded thing grrm invented to cover his excuses on creating a story with no end. Everything has a meaning and purpose. I will make sure to write an essay on this crap before grrm dies! There is NO plan for this b s mark my words! Bad writing at the core!
tess064 There are just a few points I’d like to make in response. Firstly George R. R. Martin actually addressed the whole “white savior trope” in an interview. The population of Slaver’s bay was always intended to be *multi-ethnic* including both white people and people of color (at least amongst the slave population). Slaves were acquired from all across Essos after all, the victims of Dothraki raids. Unfortunately this diversity wasn’t as apparent in the show as it needed to be. Since the Slaver’s bay scenes were shot in Tunisia, HBO hired extras from that region.
Also, I vehemently disagree with your idea that Jon should have admitted that he was “using” Dany and didn’t love her. Although the romance between Jon and Dany was poorly written, that completely goes against Jon’s character to “use” her or any woman for that matter. He was raised to be honorable. And also, in my opinion, it made more sense for Grey Worm to blame Cercei and the Lannister’s for Missandei’s death.
Beyond that, I think we’re in agreement? Yeah sure, it’s *possible* that the writers could have crafted a better ending with the number of episodes they allotted themselves. But why bother with that restriction at all? Yeah, giving Tormund more backstory instead of developing Bran more effectively was a mistake. But they could’ve developed ANY CHARACTER that needed development over the course of more episodes than what we got. Speculation over what would have made the 13 final episodes better (I’m including season 7), and ONLY those 13 episodes, is pointless to me. That conversation would be heavily opinion based, and therefore not very productive. I’m not interested in arguing over which characters deserved screen time and which didn’t. I won’t dismiss that it’s *”possible”* that the finale could at least have been decent with only 13 episodes. But we’re not going to get a definitive fanfic outline from any TH-cam commenter (including myself) that’s guaranteed to please everybody.
Limiting the story to that scale introduces pacing issues that are extremely difficult to overcome. They had a whole show to build towards it, but keep in mind HALF OF IT was spent adapting books that hadn’t finished laying the groundwork for that ending. GRRM himself pushed for 13 seasons, and HBO wanted 10!
For the record. I like Tormund as a character. And whether or not Tyrion’s jokes were funny are a matter of opinion.
It was disappointing, pathetic and uninspiring!
And I had very high hopes for Daenerys and Jaime 's storylines even after the huge disappointing death of Petyr Baelish, pretty much my top 3 favorite characters.
I forgot about Baleish's death. That was disappointing and awful. The whole Sansa vs. Arya thing was awful and confusing.
@MarcyyD
yeah I was also sold at that moment, just losing my mind over that scene because the delivery was simply fantastic, but when I looked more into it, Arya vs Sansa didn´t make any sense
He was my fav character too. But tbh he had it coming.
@@user-cs1ep6jj2o true, all the horrible characters died terribly, and he was definitely a horrible character.
Tyrion: we need the best story... in fact a story so good they wrote it completely out of season 5. Ah Bran.
I actually liked that Tyrion wasn't even mentioned in the meta-story within the show. It says a lot about how Martin views our written histories and how significant people are forgotten.
After eight seasons of following Tyrion's story and his pontificating on the importance of story, he ends up without even a footnote in his own story.
@factotum he was talking about Tyrion hyping up Bran’s story to those lords. You know, the one that was supposedly the “best story” of them all; such a _great_ story that they didn’t even show him in Season 5.
@@MrJH101 I know. I just saw Tyrion+Story and thought I'd share that. Also it's humorously ironic that Tyrion wasn't included in the 'story' after giving a speech on the importance of stories.
@@factotums It makes no sense though. He was in multiple high positions and he killed Tywin. He should have been at least mentioned.
@@Evija3000 The point could be made that medieval histories are incredibly vague compared to what we have today or even two hundred years ago. The book was called 'The Wars following the death of King Robert the First' and just retitled. Also Tywin held enormous sway, was basically king, would have certainly influenced the citadel, hated his son and was succeeded by his daughter who hated him even more. Point being you could make a serious case for his omission. Then again it might just be they wanted that joke in there and didn't think their viewing public was worth the effort of making it make sense.
Honestly I'm more concerned as to why everyone is so jovial while sitting atop unprecedented atrocity. Why do they have a Master of Ships and not a Master of Orphanages or Master of Removing One Million Burned Corpses from the Rubble of their Former Homes? Who is Tyrion concerned about getting shipments of food to feed? Why is Bran's only request that they appoint a Master of Whisperers when he can see everything at all times and again why be concerned with spying on a pile of unoccupied stones? Why are they even using that city and not one of the several others which did not receive a fire bombing which was specifically aimed to erase the old world? Anyway, I forgot why I was writing this. Cheerio.
Euron to camera: I'm the man who killed Jamie Lannister!
Deadpool: There's a time and a place, dude.
*to jamie
He's basically telling jamie that he killed him. He died believing that his wound that he gave to jamie would kill him. Why are people so weirded out by it?
@@chrisbolland5634 It's the only time in the show's 10 years someone looked directly into the camera.
@@riparianlife97701 Not really, Missandei did right before her execution. It doesn't really matter though. Are you going to let one movement of a character's eyes ruin your likely favorite TV show? Be grateful for what we were given, not bitter over what we were denied
@@chrisbolland5634 No, Missandei did not look directly at the camera. Euron did, and it came across as campy. th-cam.com/video/nam_w3V6wdk/w-d-xo.html
@@chrisbolland5634 Watch it again. th-cam.com/video/nam_w3V6wdk/w-d-xo.html
Thank god Drogon got out of it alive....
Yes! In the end, I only worried about the dragon. Hope evil Bran will not find him! Dragon should have the status of protected species after all! :)
Thank god I got out before it went to shit.
- everyone who died before season 5
@Valkyrie and Arya she should have died about 4 times in episode 5
Should have made 'Game Of Thrones' What went wrong.
There's nothing deep about the finale it's all dumb.
Even that good boi pet was undeserved. Ghost should have ignored Jon for abandoning him in the first place. He's got Tormund now.
If I was a direwolf, I'd also choose Tormund Giantsbane over Joegon Targsnow. He just fills me with joy! My milk-drinking boy
He sent him to safety.
Thinking there's depth in the last season is definitely overreaching
They flew by the seat of their pants. There was no underpinning theme to them. The goal was “wrap anything up” however you can. And that’s it. WE wanted meaning and cohesion. It’s disjointed because they are nothing but capitalists and opportunists and so the story became.
Does anyone realize that Tyrion basically created the Westeros' version of the Holy Roman Empire, and anyone with a basic knowledge of medieval history knows just how well that turned out.
@FINALRAGE44, yeah basically. A bunch of petty, squabbling Dukedoms that are united in nothing but name. And even then, no common culture even exists among them.
@CK Lim and you could say the same things for other patriarchal monarchy's before them, and in other places (China, India, Egypt, ethiopia, all of them have records of long periods of dynastic rule). But Longevity doesn't mean it's a better system, the whole point of the break the wheel question, was to see if there was anybody ( or any groups of people) in the fantasy world that could do better and prioritize the people instead of their own ruling class drama, backstabbery and power struggles, which they waged on the lives of everyone else.
The fact that the show puts so little effort into answering this question, shows how much shit they gave. For fucks sake they jeer at the idea of democracy at the end and expect the audience to laugh along with them. Worse, they expect us to think this ruling class circle jerks is supposed to pave the way for a better system? Just because they got rid of family lines as a rule? How the heck do they plan to enforce that? How is that supposed to prevent another repeat of the same violence & widespread destruction?
Like they couldn't be more hypocritical and tone deaf.
@@Redchinesestones I agree, but instead of a jump from absolute monarchy to democracy, like Sam suggested, which never happened without world-changing violence to my knowledge, (and to be fair, the nobility in the show rightly reacted to), they should have went with a more English approach with an adoption of a proto-constitution like the Magna Carta, giving more rights to the lords and subjects while not totally skipping past almost 600 years of political, economic, and overall societal evolution. Especially considering that the series is primarily based on medieval English history and not German. At the very least, it would have been more believable, but I guess you can't hold D&D to a historical account along with good storytelling. (Which makes me think about what kinda shit HBO was smoking considering they green-lit them for a show based on alternate history but that's a whole separate matter lol.)
@CK Lim Yes it lasted long, but really only in name. Given the amount of civil wars, regular wars, and dynasty changes along with the the amount of interregna in its history, the government was hardly stable.
@CK Lim There are plenty of examples in medieval period of the HRE banding together as a whole to go off warring. The Third Crusade and Nicopolis are just two of these. But this points to my main point of it being unstable due to the fact that they were really only able to congregate as a solid power under a select few rulers.
ignoring the last 2 seasons .. ending on season 6 is the right move for this show.
16:20 I do disagree with GRRM on his point about Aragorn, at least in the books. Aragorn demonstrated time and again that he was already a good ruler in a multitude of situations from the military to basic survival to running a society long before he became king of Gondor. He wasn't a good king just because he was a good man, he was a good king because he was a good leader, who was also a good person.
I also feel like when it came to the big bad being defeated and everything going back to normal he wasn't criticizing Tolkien so much as what Tolkien inspired. When it came to Tolkien, he mentioned how he loved the addition of things like the Scourage of the Shire, which showed that defeating the big bad DOESN'T make all the bad go away. LotR (again the books) was bittersweet because the good guys won but that doesn't erase the bad in the world. There would always be bad. And I feel like that is the ending that GRRM is going to try to capture, only emphasized more to show how important an addition that sort of thing can be to a story.
But he wasn't disagreeing with Tolkien, he was expanding on the idea that things aren't so black and white when it comes to reigning. The "tax policy" question is meant to portray good leaders as potentially flawed in overall politics.
this has to be the most one sided question of the year...
So before Westeros had a clear ruler and the next ruler would be his son and nobody could do anything to change it. So everyone tried to get more influence over the king and more power within the system.
Now it is exactly the same, only that everytime the king dies the seek for power escalates because you actually can become the new king.
Iron Islands had a similar voting system where Yara got screwed over by Euron. If Tyrion or anyone else couldn't think of the possible issues, she knew and could have spoken up about it.
Yeah, I can see every great house nominating someone from their house and the houses forming voting factions, buying each others votes, etc. And when that doesn't work possibly rebellions and civil wars.
Kind of the the series the Borgias or should I just say how they nominate popes?
Most likely it will mutate again back, to being inherited. You know like the Holy Roman Empire "electeing" the emperor. Or the Greyjoys on the Iron Islands in GoT itself..
I still think the main reason why Bran became king is because he knew it was the only way to realistically let Tyrion rule.
His role as the Three-eyed Raven is he can only offer information of the past and knows Tyrion used history as his main source of power.
Tyrion is the actual hand while Bran is the actual ruler. Tyrion is the functioning ruler while Bran is the functioning hand.
Why would anyone want Tyrion as hand is what I wonder. He proved he was incapable of ruling in Mereen when Dany had to fight the slavers on her return with the Dothraki. That was Tyrion's show at what he could do. And then he literally lost Daenerys the kingdoms and her life with his stupid plan on arriving at Westeros and stupid moralising about what she could do to take the kingdoms that no other character was held to.
@@TheMoonatDawn Yeah, Tyrion's cynicism, intelligence, very rudimentary morality and pragmatism make him a very good hand in the type of viper's nest that is King's Landing under the Lannisters. He even is a fantastic bureaucrat in a less hostile environment. But he is not a leader. His family and the general hostility of Westeros towards those with disabilities leave him far too cynical, hateful and cruel to be a good leader to help the people. And the people honestly are too prejudiced to let his best self (which we never really see tbh) rule.
You're not wrong, see all the lines about how the Hand can make.even actively bad rulers work.
I actually agree with you. Even if people say that Tyrion hated people of King's landing he still did everything he could to protect them and Bran knew that too.
Confusing and unsatisfying. Yep, that pretty much sums it up! 🙀
Its basically because of the witting. good realistic characters can become bad and crap because of bad writing.
I hate witting.
I say game of thrones lost its luster when they passed the books and Martin only helped with foot notes
So throwing nearly all Prophecies, Plotlines and Character Arcs out of the window at the last minute is called “subverting your expectations”....Interesting...
“subverting your expectations” a new euphemism for Disappointment.
Even more sad when you realize that GoT was probably THE show that made "subverting expectations" a thing in the first place.
“Is it deep or dumb?”
If you have to ask the question, you kinda already know the answer here
Edit: Did not realize this was a series when I said this, I thought it was just about GOT season 8. Totally agree that Interstellar is "deep" unlike season 8.
So this is why dumb people are so sure of themselves? From experience what do you say?
Youre missing the point. The guy doesnt care about the answer, he only cares about monetizing the subject and pushing some agenda.
Nah I dont really agree. They asked this same question with Interstellar and ended up saying it was deep. Its kind of arguable for most things on whether they're deep or dumb because different people will interpret things differently. One person might see deep meaning in something whereas someone else wont. I'm not trying to say its completely subjective because some things are objectively dumb. But a lot of the time it is arguable.
@@ElInextricable A youtuber mskes a video to make money? Thanks captain obvious
@@notserious6458 What the.. I know I stated the obvious! but what is very obvious to me is not that obvious to others, evidently. You must be one of those individuals that think very high of themselves believing the rest are just idiots. Oh no! Have I stated the obvious again here? Tell me.
I was rooting for Theon Greyjoy the whole time. Idk why. While reading the book, I felt that Martin enjoys writing him. The kid who was kidnapped and brought up in a noble man's home together with his kids. I just, enjoy his storyline alot.
Jared and wisecrack crew, you nailed it. I appreciate your perspective as always, one of my favorite channels on TH-cam. You do the work it takes to deliver a thoughtful meaningful video essay that challenges me and questions the way that I think.
Bran is a big reference to the Welsh tales of Bran the Blessed and the later retelling the Fisher King.
Literally everything in bran's arc is a reference to that story. 3 eyed raven under white hill, bran the blessed is buried under white tower. Bran the blessed protects Britain with his ravens, bran's namesake in GoT built the wall which is defended by crows, bran literally means crow/raven in Welsh, ect, ect.
thanks for the insights, I'm gonna look that up
In universe it was still unjustified and badly executed
@@majorfallacy5926 totally agree, it's just a thing that does make bran make more sense as a character and I never see it mentioned. I mean Brandon means "son of Bran" so it's a really on the nose allusion that nobody got because its alluding to a story few people outside of Wales would probably know.
I mean I only pointed out a few connections but literally bran is just bran the blessed/Fisher king in GoT with a few minor tweaks. So I cant say that makes it better, but it at least made it make sense to me that Bran became king.
References and foreshadowing are not character development.
@@UdyKumra no, but character arcs are. Maybe actually go look at what I'm referencing because the whole point I'm making is that people didnt get the character arc because they didnt get the references and allusions in his story. Does that make it good or well written, no. However seeing as literally no one mentions bran the blessed while talking about Bran the Broken I'm pretty sure it just went over people's heads. Also, to be fair, theres a difference in no character development and you not liking the character development. Bran isn't the same character from episode 1 to the last episode so idk what the point is in just ignoring the definition of words.
Maybe I'd have to watch it again, but I remember Danny being kind of ruthless and obsessed with power and smashing anything in her way... Who only hesitated murder and destruction when Tyrion and Varys advised her that doing so would help her keep power in the long-run. I didn't think the ending was "shocking". I think it's more that in the earlier seasons, they presented her in a more sympathetic light (similar to Endgame's portrayal of Thanos).
Danny was a revolutionary and most revolutions usually end in bloodshed and mass atrocities. She has a very black and white world view and sense of destiny. But in a way, the oligharcy endured and she didn't break the wheel. There was no 'revolution' and in the future there will be a king or queen elected who may want to reintegrate the North (As someone living through Brexit, seccesion is extremely divisive) with the South. History repeats itself. The fabric of society in GOT world doesn't change, the cycle continues because not enough development went to bringing to life what that post-war society would be. It was sandwiched into 30 minutes. Still enjoyed the show nonetheless though despite unexplained answers.
I think there was a lot of potential to make a point about that that they sort of crammed into a single joke when Sam proposes a democracy--something radically different. They all laugh it off and choose something that doesn't change as much as it should but at least is a change at all. And maybe that could be the point, that we're only willing to inch away from our broken systems towards familiar compromises, and because we can never accept radical change soon enough the same crap keeps happening. I think they gave us a lot to read into, they just didn't bother to make it apparent thats what the show wad trying to say. The main criticism i see in this video is that the writers left too much ambiguity where it wasnt suitable--if they had just chosen a point and ran with it, even if the point was wrong, dumb, or didn't fit the show-- at least they would be trying to say something instead of making a bunch of choices that dont seem to mean anything at all.
You forget one thing.......the three eyed raven doesn't die, he simply transforms........or in other words their may never really be a future ruler so to speak. Now that in real life would suck but brain isn't a real person any more, he has contextual knowledge and empathy no mortal being existing in linear time could ever have.
I never saw her as revolutionary. Revolution is radical change. She was using the fire and blood her ancestors used to conquer a continent with weapons of mass destruction. She believes power is her blood right and that might makes right, so using her dragons is righteous to subjugate anyone who doesn't submit. That is old thinking, not revolutionary.imo
Game of thrones is dumb
A Song of Ice and Fire is deep
The show outpaced the book.
In anime, we know what this means;
Show writers: “let’s wing it !”
Everyone forgets, the Iron Bank always collects.
yeah they kinda forget about them
I knew the answer before clicking the video but honestly, was surprised with the in-depth analysis you gave. I half expected this video to be a recap of everything I already knew but you surprised me with some interesting perspectives I hadn’t considered. Good job! 👍
I think one of the problems was that they tried to resolve the problem of the "wheel" of people constantly taking power from each other. It might have been more true to the show if the end didn't wrap up this issue, and instead showed something to tell us that this power struggle wont ever end. Or just that in some way, not everything will be perfect... because in real life not everything will ever be perfect, and originally Game of Thrones was meant to be about being realistic. Instead, we got this random new king (Bran) and are told that this will totally solve the problem - this is unrealistic because A. It was way too easy a solution, and B. There is no way everything will work out perfectly in the future, like we are led to believe by the show
I'm just looking forward to Season 9.
Season 8 (mark 2)
WAIT...we’re actually getting what we want?
Opening scene, Bran wake up in his bed and found out that he's crippled.
@@araisikewai Opening scene: Jon wakes up to the fact Bran lied to cripple Jon's kingship.
There's a lonely dragon out there, who's ready for a daddy, which will prove who Jon is. Season 9 is HUGE in my mind. The battle of the brother-cousins.
@@LilacDaisy2 Opening scene: Arya singlehanded kills a kraken in the open sea. The crew is starving from some time now but she is OK as if the food and fresh water (or wine or whatever) isn't scarce.
Sorry guys but let’s not kid ourselves: it was pretty dumb.
Sounds like you didn't actually watch the video.
DefenestrateYourself what the actual fuck are you talking about, you downright fucking idiot. At the end of the video they literally say it was Dumb. What?! Watch the video till the end. Sounds to me like you’re either deaf or dumb.
rather sad when you spend so much time following a story down a very twisted path only to turn the corner and have someone leap out from behind the shrubbery and say... something about moose bursting into flame or the aerodynamics of hedgehogs launched across a soggy moor at washer women attempting to gain access into a heavily guarded castle and pretend that it was the plan all along
The ending was rushed but good👍😊
DefenestrateYourself No dude. I watched the video and even though it has some good points I didn’t recognize before, it didn’t change my mind in the end, especially since the ending was stupidly oversimplified and wrapped neatly with a bow. Anyways did you finish the video because they say it’s dumb at the end.
Anyone who thought that GoT would have a happy ending, wasn't paying attention. The whole time Dany was preaching about "breaking the wheel", she was also talking about burning cities to the ground and slaughtering her "enemies".
Jon petted his direwolf so hard that it brought back a clip from an earlier episode.
It was just Ghost's flashback from the time his master still cared about him.
Season 1-6 deep season 7,8- dumb
6 ..they started to rush things ..
@@Mohammad_.- The writers planned season 7 and 8 together and only wanted to make 11 episodes. This is where the quality dropped IMHO.
Seasons 1-4 deep, Season 5-6 Great television, but no longer a masterclass, Season 7-8 Dumb.
@@ishaanbansal3503 well my rushometer gets pretty high on 7 & 8 and tgere is only 6 before that so ..agreed
no... it was never really "deep"... and it never became "dumb"...
It was "slightly on the nose" philosophy 101 and ended on "really on the nose" philosophy 101... Thats pretty much it.
It’s been a year and I’m still mad. None of us will forget the monumental failure
Almost two years now... The North remembers.
I guess what happens when you skip ahead of the source material is, that suddenly your magical powers are fueled by the dead souls of an alternate reality Earth, and the main protagonist is transported to Munich, Germany at the end to live happily ever after.
Yes, this happened in the Fullmetal Alchemist anime that came out before the manga finished.
In 15-20 years, we'll get Game of Thrones: Brotherhood
I was really hoping Wisecrack, of all people would be able to find something "deep" about this season, but... nope. Much sad.
Did you find anything?
Varys trying to poison Dany was brilliant though.
It's a good thing that the dragon understood the concept and purpose of visual metaphors in order to melt the Iron Thrown and not, you know, Jon Snow's face.
In the end, I see 1984 winning. A all seeing government( big brother) and bran that see everything everything with top government power. the similarity is uncanny..
Duck Goes Quack The final line of the book still haunts me. ‘I love Big Brother’.
Duck Goes Quack That is exactly what I interpreted the ending as. Bran pulled a Keyser Soze on all of Westeros and nudged events to put himself on the throne. It is a phenomenally dark ending, but without that outward appearance. The fact that the only time we see a hint of a smile at all from Bran since he turned clairvoyant is when he cheekily asks "why do you think I came all this way" should tell you... this was all the Three Eyed Raven's goal. In fact, there's good reason to believe that all the religions of Westeros, and all the visions and prophecies, those were all whispers from The Three Eyed Raven. Unfortunately, the showrunners rushed the show entirely too much to provide much justification. Why would The Three Eyed Raven even want the throne? Why wouldn't he actually be *more* influential if Sansa was queen, and Bran was her advisor? For a show called "Game of Thrones", they could have done something pretty interesting by showing how overt power struggles are nothing compared to covert manipulation when it comes to playing the game. It wouldn't take much. The chess metaphor is trite, but using chess-like visuals somehow would do it.
@@adlanhaziq I love brother bran
The problem is that got is a show about politics, and in politics there is no finale. Politicians come and go and there is no way to stop them. I kinda liked the idea behind this finale, i think it was inspired by popper (trying ti create utopias creates hell on earth, a constitutional system is not perfect but good enough) but it was too short, as a TH-camr I've listened to said "season 8 was like the synopsis of season 8, the main points are there but it is missing the connections".
@Spanish Moustache how would you have done it?
@@francescoazzoni3445 I could think of a few things:
at least ten episodes for the finale season (keep the length of one hour and a half).
three additional seasons to round it out at ten.
not be greedy and ready to destroy your life's work to pursue another project so blindly.
@@nhagan001 i fully agree, the problem isn't the finale in itself, the ideas are there and i think most of them come from Martin, the problem was the lack of time to wrap up everything. I would pay to know why they decided to finish the series in two seasons: surely it wasn't HBO or the actors because both were making decent money and the series still had a lot to work on (Littlefinger plans, the tyrell's revenge, the invasion from north and east, the iron bank, etc...)
Damn this was so good it covered every single thing that the show fell flat on very thoroughly
"But first a very basic overview: The NSA wins in politics."
As Pink Floyd said, "Welcome to the Machine..."
The whole entire point of bran being King. Was not that he was better than everybody else, it was that no one could lie. Every one who is in charge of sensitive things in the realm, could not get away with anything. That is the moral of the story.
Because Game of Thrones, was about backstabbing and two timing just so you could win the throne. When you have someone who knows everything, you can't do that stuff. That was the moral of the story.
Then why does he have a master of whispers?
@@francisthompson3772 to know where to look.
Its dumb and if you say otherwise ill challenge you to a trial by combat!
@@PDD-co6yo We are weiss and benioff we have raped Got We have murdered it!! And killed its fanbase just like this ! (showing Saison 7- 8)
If the ultimate message was that humanity sucks, the world is unfair and nothing matters then Daenerys should have been queen, this character who we been following and rooting for this whole time just becomes evil and governs with an iron fist for eternity.
Or the night king should have taken over the world.
Wouldn’t have been satisfying endings, but they would be cohesive at least and if they weren’t going to make a satisfying ending anyway the might as well make a full story.
I always liked the idea that they would actually have to compromise with Cersei. Giving up your ambition for the greater good would have been a nice ending. But oh well.
What are you talking about? Our boi night King was the best. A lifetime of immortality and endless white and no starvation for a couple of vital spot stabs? Hell yeah
Uncle Dan no it wouldn’t. As a poor guy I am damn certain about the way my life would go in that world.
Cersei is one of the worst main characters concerning regular and poor folks.
I’d rather would have eveything dead than let monsters survive.
The Song of Ice and Fire books were to fantasy what Cormac McCarthy’s books were to the Western. The whole point was to subvert conventions / tropes etc and create a new language. As soon as the TV show veered away from the books, they drifted straight back into convention, and the quality dropped through the floor.
Never even realised that crack in the map - nicely spotted. And yeah, I personally take that as the Realm still being broken. I mean, it's not going to be fixed in a matter of - time-jumped - weeks or months.
So jon, do you want to see the new wisecrack video??
Jon: I don't want it.
You know nothing jon snow.
Jon: Wisecrack is my queen!
ah neva ahve
Ah dunf wun it
I actually quite liked that Bran became king. The show and books were both rife with comparisons between him and Bran the Builder, which was a pretty consistent bit of strong foreshadowing. I also think that the intended message with that outcome was that Bran, seeing the entirety of human history at will after having it forced on him, is in the best possible position to learn from the past and make accurate predictions of the future; this would enable him to, ostensibly, understand which individuals are best suited for certain roles in the council and what would ultimately be the most beneficial style of leadership for the most people. As for Bran refusing to be the Lord of Winterfell, I think he knew that ruling the Six Kingdoms directly would be the only way to reliably keep the correct people in power, and that Sansa and the North would eventually secede and start another war unless the king was willing to take the L and grant them independence, which no other candidate would have even considered.
I think the only real problem with season 8 is that it was so rushed and short that they couldn't properly flesh those ideas out through dialogue.
That's my take, anyway.
Wrong
Stronly Agreed. Finally someone says it out loud.
Season 8 was a mess in its entirety lmao they made the characters stupid caricatures of themselves. You really think Jon snow and his Avengers squad would ever think its actually a good idea to go beyond the wall to try and capture a single white walker?
Also, no one is going to approach the unintended consequences?
Bran might not be replaced for thousands of years, because he is the Three Eyed Raven.
The North Independence opens up the gates for Dorne and The Iron Islands to persue independence aswell, by force if necessary.
Bron as Master of Coin is just irresponsable, he has no bussiness acummen.
How long until the council has a split over something?
What about the food? Dany burnt a lot of it in the 7th season and it is still winter (at least it was supposed to), how do feed a continent with no food?
So much could go incredible wrong, but fuck us the fans, we need to wrap this thing now, so we can go work on Star Wars.
I thought the ending was terrible. To try and make it better for myself I've added some of my own context and story in the background to try and make it better and more complete for myself. I like to think that bran... er, the 3 eyed raven, is legit awful. They are the architect for all the terrible shit going on just so that they could be king.
So dumb. Danerys Targaryen suddenly becomes Sadam Hussein and uses the medieval equivalent of a drone/nuke to burn all the citizens for no reason. On top of that, She wants to expand until she takes the entire world. They assassinated her character and did not even care about the Targaryen bloodline. The Starks were probably the only house that survived this show, which is ridiculous. Danerys' storyline is just one example of many of how the show failed to make sense and failed to stay smart.
Andres - she is the villain from the beginning. We just didn't see her that way. We all are fascinated by her liberator/breaker of chains persona. What I hated is the way it is revealed. It came outta nowhere leaving everyone in a wtf state. Her reveal is too rushed.
If it makes you feel better once all the current Starks are dead that's the end of their line. Sansa Queen or not if she marries and have children they will not be Starks. Arya doesn't seem to wanna have kids or settle down. Either way if she never comes back from "what's west of westeros" it doesn't matter. Jon Snow is a Snow, and if he has kids beyond the wall they will be bastards or Targeryns XD. Bran...well...he's Bran and Sansa snitched that his equipment doesn't work.
She's less Hussein than America bringing "freedom" to other countries. "We'll free the fuck out this people!" :V
@@perrodetokio yeah. If the American government had dragons in medieval times, humans would be extinct.
@@andreslopez7267 Hahahahaha :)
Nice analysis. It's great to see someone look at the very complex issues that the show tried to address (and wrap up too quickly).
This is the first video about the show's ending I dared to watch. I was not disappointed. Well made points without being all aggro.
Thanks Wisecrack.
valar morghulis
dkSilo Valar Doheris
Wait...but it is bad....they copied all the ending scenes from lotr
The one called "foreshadowing isn't character development" by Trope Anatomy and the one about subverting expectations by Hello Future Me are pretty good too! Different types of analysis.
One element of the finale you seem to have omitted, and which is in some way connected to the entire show's meaning is that throughout eight seasons, the great houses of Westeros kept retaliating for older grievances, but the finale shows the main characters making an attempt to forgive and forget, and move on with their lives in relative peace, to the best of their ability.
This, by the way is in an interesting parallel to how European countries weren't able to forget and forgive WWI, which in turn fueled WWII, which we try very hard to remember correctly, so we don't repeat the mistakes that led to it. Also, in the middle ages, there was a sort of mandatory oblivion on past conflicts, so that people can eventually move on and not harbor old grudges, which is also an interesting parallel in a fantasy show.
Except for House Stark who actually lives to try and forget? Gendry is a bastard,Tyrion was treated like a bastard and freak, the Greyjoy girl...what exacydid she do? She was even more useless than Euron in the end. Only the true blooded Starks win and survive.
@@midwings00 Exactly- and they subsequently secede again. Plus Dorne really never cared and there are no Tyrells left either (just Bronn in the Reach) and then "holy shit is that Robin Arryn?!" in the Vale. And you know he ain't doin' shit.
@@jkbuckeye1 all this analysis means squat when it appears the lead writers don't care. I mean it seems like the show became a phenomenon but for the writers it was just another job and they just wanted it to end good or bad
I'm Daenerys.. I'm going to break the wheel by being another Targaryen on the throne!
The ultimate message of the show is that genetics are the only thing that matters. Think about it.
We’re told from the beginning that the Lannisters are cruel traitors who would side with however has the power and the only loyalty they give are towards their own family.... Well Cersei was a cruel evil queen, Jamie betrayed Brienne to come back for Cersei and Tyrion betrayed Dani as soon as he saw his dead family and when a new government took over he joined that too (even if you think that was all justified he still did what his family did before just with better intentions).
We were told that Targaryen are sometimes good but also crazy evil psychopaths.... Daenerys’ brother was an evil psycho and Daenerys tried to be good but she had the crazy genes so she ended murdering an entire city for no reason.
We were told the Starks were good and noble and at the end even tho all the remaining Starks also did horrible things we are meant to view them as good guys and they all get relatively happy endings.
The whole show even started because of faulty genetics and incest, so yeah that’s the theme I guess.