4:00 the intro narration says Conan is "Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the sons of Aryas", so I think its its Earth (probably Europe and West Asia) in the past: its a poetic way of saying "more than 6000 years ago, after Atlantis sank, but before the proto-indo-european language spread, magic still worked..."
Thats the thing about this movie, it has something for people of different ages. As a young boy the badass qualities of conan grabbed me and did not let go. As a grown man the way the actors were able to convey their thoughts and emotions with minimal dialouge struck me as great. Now getting closer to 50 years and living a life were the years show makes everything king Osiric says about being a father hit hard. I could always see how someone could try to make a philosophy from the film. I never did but just greatly appreciate the story and themes.
I once punched a bloke in the face for saying Hawk the Slayer was rubbish, when what I should have said "Dad, you’re wrong, but lets give Krull a try..."
How could they fail to mention Mako as Akiro the wizard. His monologue intro at the start of the movie set the tone that this movie was going to be epic..."Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of. And unto this, Conan, destined to wear the jeweled crown of Aquilonia upon a troubled brow. It is I, his chronicler, who alone can tell thee of his saga. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!"
I’d like to hear the director’s commentary now that you’ve mentioned it’s contrary, but I think Red Hair freeing Conan is deeper than just a drunken moment of humanity. I’ll summarize a piece here by writer David Hines on the topic, as I’ve always enjoyed his interpretation. First, we really have to understand who Red Hair is. To understand that, you first have to understand where he comes from, which requires revisiting the raiding scene at the film's opening. The raid on Conan's village is carried out by three different kinds of people. The first kind are the cultists of Set, led by Thulsa Doom, whose flunkies are Rexor (big mustache) and Thorgrim (big hammer). These guys are easily distinguished because they are a) in charge b) all about snakes. They put snakes on everything: armor, helmets, shields, weapons. The second kind of people at the raid are Picts. These are the guys with painted faces and/or tattooed bodies, as seen in the background and also in closeup in the form of Arnold's friend and fellow bodybuilder Franco Columbu as a Pictish scout. The third kind are Vanir. These are Red Hair's people. They're a northern people, like the Cimmerians, but they wear furs where the Cimmerians wear skins, and fight on horseback while Cimmerians fight afoot. Note that the Picts and the Vanir are doing their own thing, style-wise. They're not all about snakes. Meaning they're not in Thulsa Doom's cult. This makes sense. Remember, "two years ago it was just another snake cult." So in Conan's boyhood, Thulsa Doom's group must have been even smaller. Which raises the obvious question: what are the Picts and the Vanir even doing there? The Wizard's voiceover says that no one knows why the raiders came, but later in the picture Thulsa Doom tells Conan why: in his youth, he was mad for steel, and fought to get it. Given his then-paltry followers, to fight for steel, Thulsa Doom would have needed allies. And to get allies, he had to give them *something.* We don't know what he gave the Picts, but the Vanir got slaves: the children of Conan's village. Red Hair isn't in on the raiding of Conan's village though. He's just a boy himself, a few years older than Conan. The first time we see him is as part of the small group of Vanir riding off with the slaves afterward. He goes with them all the way to their destination. Note that Red Hair is the only one without a helmet. I expected Milius wanted you to see that mop of hair. He's marking that character. The first time we get a really good look at Red Hair, and see his face, he's securing the chains binding twelve-year-old Conan to the Wheel of Pain that Conan is going to push for at least a good ten years. Maybe more. There's a reason both kids get closeups. They'll meet again. But in the intervening decade plus, Conan's chained to the Wheel of Pain. The movie never gets into what the Wheel of Pain is actually for, but it's clearly a mill, probably for a salt mine; in closer shots there's some scattered white powder around the base. And the mine is not a very productive one, because over the course of Conan's tenure, the slaves reassigned, sold off, or deceased don't get replaced. By the end of his time there, Conan is the only one pushing it. The garrison is drawn down, too: by the end of its run it's literally one guard and Conan, which sounds like a premise for a bizarre sitcom. This is when Red Hair returns. Again, that's what the big bushy mop of red hair is for: telling you this is the same guy. He greets Conan's one guard with respect, but also warmth. Then he leads Conan away, and the wheel stops. Probably forever. Why Red Hair matters: long involvement with the Wheel of Pain and evident closeness to its personnel suggest that the facility is part of his family concern. Red Hair isn't buying Conan; he already owns him, and he's repurposing a small asset, part of a failed larger asset. This is how Conan's new career as a pitfighter begins: either Conan's a winner, or he's one less mouth to feed. (Red Hair evidently doesn't much care which, as he doesn't even bother explaining to Conan that he is about to be in a fight to the death). But Conan wins. And wins. And keeps winning. "In time, his victories could not easily be counted." Red Hair is making bank. Conan is, surprisingly, a profitable asset. So what to do? Red Hair chooses to reinvest in his asset. Conan goes east to learn from the warmasters. This is a sensible choice. Conan is a great pitfighter. If he learns to fight with battlefield weapons, he's got some new career options. Maybe a gladiator, fighting for big bucks in actual arenas. Maybe even a soldier, to win real gains for Red Hair's family and people. And Conan learns well. Very, *very* well. So Red Hair invests further. He takes his biggest step yet. *He teaches Conan to read.* Why teach a pitfighter, a gladiator, even a soldier to read though? Why give him access to "the poetry of Kitai, the philosophy of Sung?" It shows Red Hair has started to dream big. He realizes Conan isn't just a fighter. He's potentially an *officer.* A captain. Maybe even a general. Red Hair lives in a martial society, and he has found himself, quite by chance, the manager of a remarkable martial talent. (One he is breeding "to the finest stock," probably bc all of this talent development far from home is expensive and Conan's stud fees are supporting them.) But then Conan meets the Turanian Khan, and Red Hair -- who has been making money off of Conan & reinvesting that money back into him -- suddenly decides to sacrifice any hope of profit, to write entirely Conan off his balance sheet, and to send Conan off to make his own fortune. Why does a shrewd investor like Red Hair do that? The answer lies in that one scene everybody remembers: the Khan scene - the same as quoted at the top of the podcast. Red Hair's goal in this is probably either 1) an alliance, with Conan leading Vanir troops in alliance with Turanians, or 2) selling Conan's services or Conan himself to the khan. And so far, things are looking good. But then the khan worries his son doesn't understand him. To test his fear, he asks a khan's question of his son, and gets a nobleman's answer. The khan is disappointed. So he asks a slave. Asked a khan's question, Conan gives a khan's answer. If you're Red Hair, this poses a bit of a problem: Dilemma: What do you do when you realize that you're holding as a slave a man who is, by the dictates of your society, your unquestioned better? This is not about anti-slavery enlightenment, with Red Hair seeing himself & Conan as moral equals. Red Hair is a man who lives in a society of power, hierarchy, & honor. Conan *thinks about these things the way the most powerful men of this society think.* And Red Hair does not. There is absolutely no way that Red Hair can keep such a man as Conan as a slave. He couldn't look himself in the mirror, if he had one. More: it's not just about how Red Hair sees himself. There are real practical problems here. Red Hair is keeping a natural king as a pet, and the only reason he can get away with it is that the king hasn't realized that he is a king... yet. If Conan realizes he is a king in waiting, Red Hair is dead. If Red Hair sets Conan up with the planned Turanian gig, the khan's son is certainly not going to be pleased to have around a man who understands his father better than he does. If not murdered, Conan and Red Hair could be swept up in a Turanian civil war *that they caused. If Red Hair tries to kill Conan himself -- and good luck with that; he's totally physically overmatched -- he's looking at either his own death at Conan's hands, or incurring the ire of a khan who now likes Conan better than he likes Red Hair. If Red Hair frees Conan and keeps him in company, the best-case scenario is that Red Hair will in short order become a man following his own former slave. So Red Hair does the only thing he can do: he strips Conan of his pit-fighter's headdress, cuts his chain, and boots him out into the night. Given sudden freedom, Conan doesn't know why. But Red Hair does, and he trusts that a man who is obviously a misplaced king will find his own way. As he does. All of this, and the sum of Red Hair's spoken dialogue comes to less than twenty words.
Great point about AS was the Frazetta interpretation of Conan! The movie intro was great, but its the RE Howard "Know, oh Prince.." intro that still gives me chills every time I read it.
“There comes a time, thief, when the jewels cease to sparkle, when the gold loses its luster, when the throne room becomes a prison, and all that is left is a father's love for his child.” Max Von Sydow chewed up that entire scene!
Thulsa: "Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! Look around you. There, on the rocks; a beautiful girl. Come to me, my child..." Girl: Jumps to her death Thulsa: "THAT is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?"
And then Conan breaks the steel sword his father made with an Atlantean sword (orichalcum?). But then used the broken steel sword to cut Thulsa doom's head.
Robert E. Howard's first description to his readers of Conan's world, the epigram to the first chapter of the first Conan story, "The Phoenix on the Sword," from Weird Tales magazine, Dec. 1932: "Know, oh prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars - Nemedia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyperborea, Zamora with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow-guarded tombs, Hyrkania whose riders wore steel and silk and gold. But the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west. Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet. - The Nemedian Chronicles."
I always thought Rexor etc and some of the other warriors with their long hair looked like band members from Iron Maiden or something. I kept looking to see or hear Bruce Dickinson scream! 🤣
I would kill to have Ty DM for the Expanse cast. Better yet, have them play the Roci crew. Holden: Bard, Valor Noami: Wizard, Abjuration or Artificer, Battle Smith Amos: Either artificer, Battle Smith (mechanic and uses guns) or Barbarian, Bear Totem Warrior Bobbie: Fighter, Battlemaster Clarissa: Barbarian, Bezerker Drummer: Ranger, Gloomstalker
@mitchellforney6109 Fair point, but what kind of Oath did he take? He's definitely Neutral Good. He'd also probably multiclass into Bard anyway. He'd likely choose Lore or Eloquence.
@@dragoninthewest1 Oath of the Ancients, for sure. "Through acts of mercy, kindness, and forgiveness, kindle the light of hope in the world, beating back despair. Where there is good, beauty, love, and laughter in the world, stand against the wickedness that would swallow it. Where life flourishes, stand against the forces that would render it barren. If you allow the light to die in your own heart, you can’t preserve it in the world. Be the Light. Be a glorious beacon for all who live in despair. Let the light of your joy and courage shine forth in all your deeds."
Yet another thing that is iconic in the movie is the soundtrack, by Basil Poledouris. You mentioned it in the end, it really helps to set the atmosphere!
Nordman from Vanaheim have red hair while the Aesir from Asgard are blond. Conan has been brought further north to Vanaheim in the Conan the Barbarian movie. Valeria is the name and Valerian and she appears in Robert E. Howard's Conan story "Red Nails". The rest of the video is good.
I remember reading in the IMDB trivia that the wheel was too well-made and balanced, and too easy to push. So in filming, they had a bunch of extras off camera pushing the other way…..
I'm rewatching The Expanse series. So, so good. Just saw the episode where Draper rescues Naomi - never gets old. I miss the excitement and anticipation of new Expanse episodes....hint, hint.
There are two improvised scenes where Bobby loses his seriousness and laughs in the series. The first is in the ship with Avasarala who puts on her Boots, the camera takes her out of the field but we see that she laughs afterwards.
Wes was spot-on about Milius. He was somewhat open about messing with people via his feigned craziness and not blending in with Hollywood attitudes from what I've seen of interviews. It's telling that his director buddies would crack a smile and shake their heads while telling those stories. Of course, after having a serious stroke many years ago, he couldn't really talk anymore so the stories largely remained as-is at that point. He seemed like the guy the great directors of the age would go to for help & suggestions on certain things. From what I gathered, he had some involvement in the creation of the USS Indianapolis speech in Jaws, for example. The go-to guy for certain things.
The Wheel of Pain resonates with me. I was injured in the military at 19 yrs old, and been in pain ever since. I’m in my 50’s now. I worked a trade job nearly 30 yrs, providing for my family despite the pain…. I kept pushing the wheel. I was set free from the wheel after a nearly 20 year battle with the VA to get my full disability compensation. I know what it’s like to be chained to the wheel, and forced to push despite the pain, weather, and circumstances. I recently got the Wheel of Pain tattooed on me in remembrance of my struggle.
The answer to the Riddle of Steel is simple. In fact, it's the very first thing that they put up on the screen. It's kind of a blink and you'll miss it kind of thing.
Fun discussion this week. So glad you chose this movie. Conan the B and Dragonslayer are my top 2 in this category. I'd never seen the Robot Chicken short so that was a tasty bonus.
Love the discussion and what you guys are doing with the channel. Grew up with these movies and still revisit them several times a year. Recently found the "The Expanse" series and am thoroughly enjoying it. Keep up the good work. 👍
As much as I want to believe Thulsa Doom's version of the Riddle of Steel I always come back to the fact that the sword Conan was using when he broke Rexor's sword belonged to an Atlantean king and was likely just better made than his father's.
Doesn't that prove that Doom was right? Conan's father told him that he could trust the steel, using his own sword as the example. Doom tells Conan that steel is nothing compared to the flesh that wields it. Then Conan breaks the sword to kill Doom. The flesh WAS stronger; Conan had become a man that can rely on himself more than any blade. And Doom was the one who forged him into that man.
3rd time seeing this episode! Once live while they were recording it, once with Patreon bingo live viewing and now the public version. Love these guys! They totally need to do an Aliens deep dive with Ty doing a bunch of the dialog from the movie!
I heard that all of the dialogue Gerry Lopez gave was actually dubbed over. It was another actors voice. Found this online "In the end, Dino De Laurentiis wanted to overdub the lines from Arnold and Gerry, and Milius only won half of that battle. "This was more of Dino’s bullshit. He stirred up the guys at Universal because he hated me and had lost control of the picture. Well they kept Arnold’s voice but we had to overdub Gerry which was a waste of time. What I did is find a sound guy who helped me find a guy whose voice was exactly like Gerry’s. Subotai’s voice isn't Gerry, but it sounds like Gerry."
As a huge fan of both the Conan film and the original Robert E. Howard stories, I'd like to add some details that aren't as well explained if you don't read the novels. Yes, the Hyborian Age is a period in the history of our world set an unspecified amount of time in the past, generally considered to be somewhere between roughly 10,000 BCE - 20,000 BCE, and the core idea of the entire mythos is the cyclical nature of history. That all living beings are fated to begin as barbarians, eventually form into civilisations, grow fat and decadent, which will inevitably lead to the doom of their civilisations and a return to barbarism, only for history to then repeat itself forever. Howard staunchly subscribed to the notion that civilisation is merely a thinly veiled illusion cast over the true nature of mankind; barbarism; and that the most noble and true life a man can lead is one of genuine struggle against the base reality of nature itself. Hunt, kill, feed, mate. To Howard that is what mankind really is, just another animal, just an ape, and everything else, laws and hierarchies, cultures and rituals, are all just human delusions. Thulsa Doom and Conan's arch-nemesis Thoth-Amon, and the Stygian worshippers of Set the Old Serpent are essentially proto-Egyptians, and in the world building essay 'The Hyborian Age' Howard goes into great detail about how the various future wars and migratory waves will eventually set the stage for the Ancient World as we recognise it. Vanaheim, the homeland of the red-haired Vanir eventually be swallowed by the sea as the glaciers melt and sea levels rise, just like Atlantis, and the Vanir will flee, cutting a path south to eventually become the first Pharaohs of Egypt. The river Styx that forms the border between Stygia and Shem will flood and become the mediterranean sea, separating Africa from Europe etc. etc. Some may think the presence of magic kills this illusion, however, it is all technically sword and technology. Yes there is magic, but magic in the Conan Mythos is very much that idea of "any sufficiently advanced technology". All magic in Conan falls under the umbrella term 'sorcery', and sorcery is a pact made with one of the great old ones, the eldritch abominations that exist in the Outer Dark, an unfathomable place beyond the borders of reality. By touching your mind to these alien entities you may glimpse the tiniest fragment of their infinite knowledge of the true nature of reality and through that gain the power to manipulate and bend it in various ways, raising the dead or shapeshifting, summoning demons and tempests, charming people with a mere look like Thulsa Doom does to Conan's mother, but it is a knife's edge a sorcerer walks between power and madness, as this knowledge is so far beyond what a mortal mind is capable of understanding that too much "cosmic truth" will invariably lead to insanity. It isn't really magic, it's extradimensional alien science. A huge part of what makes the Conan film so impactful is that all of this is right there in the film, hidden just beneath the surface, but the film respects the viewer enough to not frontload it as a lore dump. It isn't necessary to know the history of Stygia and its relation to ancient dark Acheron, or that the Cimmerians are the devolved descendants of the Atlanteans, but because Howard thought it all out beforehand and stuck meticulously to his fictional history of the world as closely as possible, it does so much heavy lifting when it comes to making the world of the Hyborian Age feel so authentic.
@@yensid4294 Due to the cyclical nature of Conan's world the technology to make steel will invariably get lost when the current civilisations descend into barbarism. Then invented again by their successors, then lost again, then invented again and so on for all of eternity. No matter how technologically advanced we get, eventually we will always return to sticks and stones only to repeat this cycle over and over. Civilisation in Howard's mythos is never anything but a temporary reprieve from our true nature as human beings. It may last a thousand years, or ten thousand, but eventually all civilisations will be reduced to ashes.
They went the whole time without one mention of Mako. Even when he was there for the final battle they said "only two guys". Also, no mention of Valaria's return. Or "do you want to live forever?" - which I guess influenced Highlaner
A few Conan factoids: -Gerry Lopez did give a great performance but Milius dubbed his dialogue with an Asian actor -The actor who played Conan's father William Smith made his niche as a low budget Charles Bronson who they originally wanted for the role -The Sword and the Sorcerer the best Conan ripoff was made based on the hype of Arnold playing Conan in a big budget picture and was finished and released in theaters 2 weeks before Conan in 1982
The truly annoying thing about the King Conan movie fiasco is that of all the reboots/sequels we've been (and are being) subjected to, a King Conan film is the only one that is a genuinely legitimate idea in the context of both the first movie and RE Howard's original stories...
The non-Arnold "Conans" have been shallow knockoffs. More like they are "Onans". Arnold is sadly in his career twilight, and a proper King Conan will not happen in today's Hollywood. No courage. REH was a phenomenal storyteller and was only getting better; he could have been up there with the greatest fantasy authors if he could have mastered his beasts instead of the tragic finality he went with. His stories are incredibly non-PC, and therefore impossible to produce as film short of a megadirector like Tarantino taking on the project.
Holy smokes, how did I forget about The Sword and the Sorcerer? That 3 bladed sword was awesome. It's not Glaive awesome but still awesome. And the bad guy is THE 80's BAD GUY.
From Queen of the Black Coast: "[The] chief [of the gods of Cimmeria] is Crom. He dwells on a great mountain. What use to call on him? Little he cares if men live or die. Better to be silent than to call his attention to you; he will send you dooms, not fortune! He is grim and loveless, but at birth he breathes power to strive and slay into a man's soul. What else shall men ask of the gods? … There is no hope here or hereafter in the cult of my people. In this world men struggle and suffer vainly, finding pleasure only in the bright madness of battle; dying, their souls enter a gray misty realm of clouds and icy winds, to wander cheerlessly throughout eternity."
OK. This is cool and I absolutely love the movie. But, let us not forget that Conan was brought to life by Robert E Howard in pulp fiction stories. The real Conan was never a slave, his childhood is glossed over. He was Cimmerian, and he came forth. Conan a slave? Ha!
Thanks for covering this excellent, iconic film. I have to point out that you both consistently misnamed the character VALERIA (not 'ValeriaN'-that's a different film/comicstrip).
Ty says the movie version of Conan is more the Frazetta style and not the REH. I disagree...yes, in the REH books he was described as panther like in his movements. However, he was also described, many times, as being very tall with big muscles. He had a broad chest and was stronger than any other man. Conans physicality was always described as him being big and swift.
Guys, check Midnight Edges answer to the riddle of steel. In my view, Conans dad and Thulsa Doom are wrong. Conan strength was defeated, his dad's steel broke but His friend saved him from the tree of woe. His girlfriend traded her life for him. The original quote at the beginning of the movie is a clue to the real answer.
these two drive me a little crazy sometimes. no mention of the great Mako? who plays the wizard and basically does the magic that saves Conan from death and fights against Thulsa's men in that final battle. or the whole rescue mission they are actually on? snatching the king's daughter back from the cult? or the actual ending when Conan snaps out the spell that Thulsa has him under and chops his head off using three effing swings? honorable mention also should have been given to Conan The Destroyer which isn't a bad movie either. Wilt Chamberlain! also no real mention of the Gregorian soundtrack and musical score?
Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of. And onto this, Conan, destined to wear the jeweled crown of Aquilonia upon a troubled brow. It is I, his chronicler, who alone can tell thee of his saga. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!
I'd say Willow, Krull and LOTR all count as high fantasy, just very different flavors of it. Dragonslayer is low fantasy for most of the movie until the ending, and Beastmaster is like an old Jack Vance story brought to life with cheesy dialogue and a cheeky rogue of an anti-hero. The Conan movies (and yes, I include the Momoa one) are just as much sword and sandal as the old Ray Harryhausen movies like the Sinbad ones or the Greek myth ones.
One of the reasons this film is so compelling is that there IS some very real truth to it. But I agree with Ty, Nietzsche's Uberman philosophy IS a a pile of Puppy Poo. The REAL 'Will to Power' is about continuing to ENDURE, and not giving up. In 2006's 'Rocky Balboa', Rocky says that it's not about how hard you can hit, but how hard you can GET hit and keep moving forward. That is where 'Conan' has real relevance. I know this on a deep, personal level. I endured lethal health problems as a child, to rise up as a very powerful young man (6'3" 320lbs, could lift a 150lb Dumbbell with one arm repeatedly), but in 1993, at 22, I started suffering Chronic Pain. It took me 20 years and 13 specialists to finally find the cause- Inoperable Spinal Damage (Spondylolisthesis) & over the last 15 years, this monster has taken everything away from me. My Career, My Hobbies, my Ability to Socialize & most importantly, my Marriage. My Wife is divorcing me, NOT (She says) because I am disabled, but because I am a 'Selfish, Betraying, Gold-Digging, Sexist, Racist, Transphobe, Nazi, who cannot provide for her.' That she has admitted I have not changed since we married, combined with the fact she's in the top 7% of US Wage Earners, kind of makes this accusation... a bit dubious. I suspect she just can't face that she CAN'T deal with having a disabled Husband, but it's easier to make me a Monster, than admit that to herself. This entire experience reminds me of another film Arnold starred in, with a quote that when you replace 'Terminator' with 'Chronic Pain' fits perfectly- "Listen, and understand! That Terminator is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear! And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!" All I can DO is endure.
one of the best sword and sorcery movies from the last ten years is the Nicholas Cage movie 'Mandy'. Its about a Vietnam veteran whose wife is murdered by a bunch of psychadelic hippies. it follows the story beats of a Conan-esque movie to a t, with the deranged hippie cult leader acting as the conniving sorceror villain Conan often slew. great film.
Ok, so... as far as John McClane w/ a sword goes, we can thank a certain Mr. Tarantino for giving us a glimpse of that when Bruce Willis picks up a Katana in Pulp Fiction. It's right there. Ergo: Die Hard is *almost* the greatest sword and sandals movie ever made.
Wes Chatham would probably be a good Conan. He's a bigger dude (Conan was more like a college football player than bodybuilder), strong jaw, and he's good at action, darkness, but also charming and seems like there's a reason people would want to be around him. I mean, I wouldn't really care if Paul Giamatti was Conan, as long as it was a good script. I mean, James Earl Jones wasn't in fighting shape, but he's got gravitas and a script and a director's vision to make us believe.
Wes, it's the riddle of steel, not the steel, please man... As for why the movie was so special and levels above the others in the genre, you guys forget to mention the obvious, it was based on books! On stories written from Howard, a great writer, he created a whole universe for Conan, as you said, there is depth in the world of the movie, but this was already in pages, the director just had to depict it on screen, he had a head start, to be fair.
In the greatest opening in film history, we see the montage of Conans father and mother crafting the Fathers Sword, a masterpiece and one of the greatest swords in film. Then Conans father tells Conan 'The Riddle of Steel' (high grade steel formula was considered a secret) 'What is stronger, the steel blade or the hand that wields it'? His father, a master blacksmith, reasons it is the blade. 'Nothing in this world can you count on. Not women, not beasts, but this. This you can count on.' He is wrong, and is torn appart by dogs, and later his sword fails and is broken. Thulsa Doom, in JEJs greatest role other than the voice of Darth Vader, asks Conan the same riddle. He says it is flesh, and he is wrong, beheaded by the broken fathers sword. Finally Conan guesses the answer. It is neither. It is Will. The will of the wielder. It is Conans Will for Vengeance that was strongest.
I remember reading back in the nineties that one massive Conan fan thought Arnold was a terrible choice based on his enormous physique. If anything, he thought he matched the lithe, panther like but still obviously tough as shit description of the books and should have got the part instead. That fan? One Iggy Pop, and honestly I can just about see it
I loved Conan as a teenager and I read the comic books endlessly, I believe that is what drove the casting for the movie based upon how Conan was drawn. But I never thought Arnold was a great choice, he made Conan look like a dullard rather than a stratigist that was huge, smart and fast!
Wes, Conan isn't historical in the literal sense. Hyperborea was what the ancient Greeks called Northern Europe. They had many myths about the barbaric peoples of the North, Western Europe & Eurasia. Oddly, the myth about Hyperborea is that it is a paradise free from war & strife. So it is a mythologized fantasy version of real peoples who the Greeks heard about set in an undetermined time BCE. Since they use steel, it can't be the Bronze Age soooooo, early Iron Age (1200 BCE) My mom was a HUGE Edgar Rice Burroughs fan so we had all the Tarzan & John Carter/Mars paperback books illustrated by Frazetta & other famous artists in the house. She also loved Doc Savage & Conan the Barbarian which she read as a kid. This movie got played a lot at my house lol.
In the Time between when the Oceans Drank Atlantis, and the Rise of the Kings of Aryas, there was an Age Undreamed Of! Unto this, Conan! Destined to Wear the Jeweled Crown of Aquilonia, Upon a Troubled Brow! It is I, His Chronicler Alone Who Can Tell You of this Saga. Let Me Tell You of the Days of High Adventure!!! (Queue the kettle drums)
Why no mention of older films like Jason & the Argonauts? I.e. people actually wearing sandals and carrying swords. So, we read the comics at my house growing up. My mother bought them and had a book of Frank Frazetta images and some prints. So of course we saw the film in the theater when it came out. And I'm pretty sure rented the VHS at least once. I don't really any of us being overly impressed though we didn't hate it and liked some parts and some performances , i.e. Sandahl Bergman & James Earl Jones. But despite growing up a Conan fan, I haven't felt the slightest interest in watching it again. I'm pretty sure the images of the posters with the woman clinging to the he-man's leg started with illustrations for John Carter of Mars. Mom's Fraztta bock was full of such images. So, those posters are hardly Conan ripoffs. I think it's a little odd for people so fanatical about the film to not know much about the source.
A deep dive that doesn't even stress the greatness of the soundtrack...calling that a glaring omission would be an understatement. Another cringey comment is the mention of "homophobia" in that great scene with the cult priest. It's not a problem with Milius, but with your brainwashing.
4:00 the intro narration says Conan is "Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the sons of Aryas", so I think its its Earth (probably Europe and West Asia) in the past: its a poetic way of saying "more than 6000 years ago, after Atlantis sank, but before the proto-indo-european language spread, magic still worked..."
Yeah exactly what it's saying.
Thats the thing about this movie, it has something for people of different ages.
As a young boy the badass qualities of conan grabbed me and did not let go.
As a grown man the way the actors were able to convey their thoughts and emotions with minimal dialouge struck me as great.
Now getting closer to 50 years and living a life were the years show makes everything king Osiric says about being a father hit hard.
I could always see how someone could try to make a philosophy from the film. I never did but just greatly appreciate the story and themes.
I once punched a bloke in the face for saying Hawk the Slayer was rubbish, when what I should have said "Dad, you’re wrong, but lets give Krull a try..."
haha
spaced
How could they fail to mention Mako as Akiro the wizard. His monologue intro at the start of the movie set the tone that this movie was going to be epic..."Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of. And unto this, Conan, destined to wear the jeweled crown of Aquilonia upon a troubled brow. It is I, his chronicler, who alone can tell thee of his saga. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!"
Instant shivers
My autistic son has this memorized and occasionally quotes it😂
Recently watched it once again...Mako has such an incredibly contagious laugh. What a guy :D
By Crom. If you don't like this movie... then the hell with you! ✊
this was one of the best conversations... Really enjoyed it and it was because Ty loves Conan so much. It was obvious.
I’d like to hear the director’s commentary now that you’ve mentioned it’s contrary, but I think Red Hair freeing Conan is deeper than just a drunken moment of humanity. I’ll summarize a piece here by writer David Hines on the topic, as I’ve always enjoyed his interpretation.
First, we really have to understand who Red Hair is. To understand that, you first have to understand where he comes from, which requires revisiting the raiding scene at the film's opening. The raid on Conan's village is carried out by three different kinds of people.
The first kind are the cultists of Set, led by Thulsa Doom, whose flunkies are Rexor (big mustache) and Thorgrim (big hammer). These guys are easily distinguished because they are a) in charge b) all about snakes. They put snakes on everything: armor, helmets, shields, weapons.
The second kind of people at the raid are Picts. These are the guys with painted faces and/or tattooed bodies, as seen in the background and also in closeup in the form of Arnold's friend and fellow bodybuilder Franco Columbu as a Pictish scout.
The third kind are Vanir. These are Red Hair's people. They're a northern people, like the Cimmerians, but they wear furs where the Cimmerians wear skins, and fight on horseback while Cimmerians fight afoot. Note that the Picts and the Vanir are doing their own thing, style-wise. They're not all about snakes. Meaning they're not in Thulsa Doom's cult.
This makes sense. Remember, "two years ago it was just another snake cult." So in Conan's boyhood, Thulsa Doom's group must have been even smaller.
Which raises the obvious question: what are the Picts and the Vanir even doing there? The Wizard's voiceover says that no one knows why the raiders came, but later in the picture Thulsa Doom tells Conan why: in his youth, he was mad for steel, and fought to get it. Given his then-paltry followers, to fight for steel, Thulsa Doom would have needed allies.
And to get allies, he had to give them *something.* We don't know what he gave the Picts, but the Vanir got slaves: the children of Conan's village. Red Hair isn't in on the raiding of Conan's village though. He's just a boy himself, a few years older than Conan. The first time we see him is as part of the small group of Vanir riding off with the slaves afterward. He goes with them all the way to their destination. Note that Red Hair is the only one without a helmet. I expected Milius wanted you to see that mop of hair. He's marking that character.
The first time we get a really good look at Red Hair, and see his face, he's securing the chains binding twelve-year-old Conan to the Wheel of Pain that Conan is going to push for at least a good ten years. Maybe more. There's a reason both kids get closeups. They'll meet again.
But in the intervening decade plus, Conan's chained to the Wheel of Pain. The movie never gets into what the Wheel of Pain is actually for, but it's clearly a mill, probably for a salt mine; in closer shots there's some scattered white powder around the base. And the mine is not a very productive one, because over the course of Conan's tenure, the slaves reassigned, sold off, or deceased don't get replaced. By the end of his time there, Conan is the only one pushing it.
The garrison is drawn down, too: by the end of its run it's literally one guard and Conan, which sounds like a premise for a bizarre sitcom. This is when Red Hair returns. Again, that's what the big bushy mop of red hair is for: telling you this is the same guy. He greets Conan's one guard with respect, but also warmth. Then he leads Conan away, and the wheel stops. Probably forever.
Why Red Hair matters: long involvement with the Wheel of Pain and evident closeness to its personnel suggest that the facility is part of his family concern. Red Hair isn't buying Conan; he already owns him, and he's repurposing a small asset, part of a failed larger asset.
This is how Conan's new career as a pitfighter begins: either Conan's a winner, or he's one less mouth to feed. (Red Hair evidently doesn't much care which, as he doesn't even bother explaining to Conan that he is about to be in a fight to the death).
But Conan wins. And wins. And keeps winning. "In time, his victories could not easily be counted." Red Hair is making bank. Conan is, surprisingly, a profitable asset. So what to do? Red Hair chooses to reinvest in his asset. Conan goes east to learn from the warmasters.
This is a sensible choice. Conan is a great pitfighter. If he learns to fight with battlefield weapons, he's got some new career options. Maybe a gladiator, fighting for big bucks in actual arenas. Maybe even a soldier, to win real gains for Red Hair's family and people.
And Conan learns well. Very, *very* well. So Red Hair invests further. He takes his biggest step yet. *He teaches Conan to read.* Why teach a pitfighter, a gladiator, even a soldier to read though? Why give him access to "the poetry of Kitai, the philosophy of Sung?" It shows Red Hair has started to dream big. He realizes Conan isn't just a fighter. He's potentially an *officer.* A captain. Maybe even a general.
Red Hair lives in a martial society, and he has found himself, quite by chance, the manager of a remarkable martial talent. (One he is breeding "to the finest stock," probably bc all of this talent development far from home is expensive and Conan's stud fees are supporting them.)
But then Conan meets the Turanian Khan, and Red Hair -- who has been making money off of Conan & reinvesting that money back into him -- suddenly decides to sacrifice any hope of profit, to write entirely Conan off his balance sheet, and to send Conan off to make his own fortune.
Why does a shrewd investor like Red Hair do that? The answer lies in that one scene everybody remembers: the Khan scene - the same as quoted at the top of the podcast. Red Hair's goal in this is probably either 1) an alliance, with Conan leading Vanir troops in alliance with Turanians, or 2) selling Conan's services or Conan himself to the khan. And so far, things are looking good. But then the khan worries his son doesn't understand him. To test his fear, he asks a khan's question of his son, and gets a nobleman's answer. The khan is disappointed. So he asks a slave. Asked a khan's question, Conan gives a khan's answer. If you're Red Hair, this poses a bit of a problem: Dilemma: What do you do when you realize that you're holding as a slave a man who is, by the dictates of your society, your unquestioned better?
This is not about anti-slavery enlightenment, with Red Hair seeing himself & Conan as moral equals. Red Hair is a man who lives in a society of power, hierarchy, & honor. Conan *thinks about these things the way the most powerful men of this society think.* And Red Hair does not. There is absolutely no way that Red Hair can keep such a man as Conan as a slave. He couldn't look himself in the mirror, if he had one. More: it's not just about how Red Hair sees himself. There are real practical problems here. Red Hair is keeping a natural king as a pet, and the only reason he can get away with it is that the king hasn't realized that he is a king... yet. If Conan realizes he is a king in waiting, Red Hair is dead. If Red Hair sets Conan up with the planned Turanian gig, the khan's son is certainly not going to be pleased to have around a man who understands his father better than he does. If not murdered, Conan and Red Hair could be swept up in a Turanian civil war *that they caused.
If Red Hair tries to kill Conan himself -- and good luck with that; he's totally physically overmatched -- he's looking at either his own death at Conan's hands, or incurring the ire of a khan who now likes Conan better than he likes Red Hair. If Red Hair frees Conan and keeps him in company, the best-case scenario is that Red Hair will in short order become a man following his own former slave. So Red Hair does the only thing he can do: he strips Conan of his pit-fighter's headdress, cuts his chain, and boots him out into the night. Given sudden freedom, Conan doesn't know why. But Red Hair does, and he trusts that a man who is obviously a misplaced king will find his own way. As he does.
All of this, and the sum of Red Hair's spoken dialogue comes to less than twenty words.
Pretty speculation! I like it.
Well thought out and makes perfect sense. To me it's the only sceneries that makes sense.
Great point about AS was the Frazetta interpretation of Conan! The movie intro was great, but its the RE Howard "Know, oh Prince.." intro that still gives me chills every time I read it.
What a dynamite score by Basil Poledouris.
I listen to it when I'm casting Bronze or working in the forge😂
@@tbishop4961 the studio wanted to have an 80s pop soundtrack, thankfully they were overruled.
The best, by the greatest.
10 min left to watch and no one has mentioned just how amazing Mako was 😢
Love the podcasts ❤
Long before I watched any film with bloodshed my dad showed me this and when mum saw us and protested he was like WOMAN BE GONE. Best Xmas eve ever
Saw 'Conan the Barbarian Deep Dive' and hit that like button so hard I think I broke my keyboard.
For Crom!
“There comes a time, thief, when the jewels cease to sparkle, when the gold loses its luster, when the throne room becomes a prison, and all that is left is a father's love for his child.”
Max Von Sydow chewed up that entire scene!
Thulsa: "Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! Look around you. There, on the rocks; a beautiful girl. Come to me, my child..."
Girl: Jumps to her death
Thulsa: "THAT is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?"
And then Conan breaks the steel sword his father made with an Atlantean sword (orichalcum?). But then used the broken steel sword to cut Thulsa doom's head.
Robert E. Howard's first description to his readers of Conan's world, the epigram to the first chapter of the first Conan story, "The Phoenix on the Sword," from Weird Tales magazine, Dec. 1932:
"Know, oh prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars - Nemedia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyperborea, Zamora with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow-guarded tombs, Hyrkania whose riders wore steel and silk and gold. But the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west. Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.
- The Nemedian Chronicles."
Aquilonia is basically pre-Mycenea the kingdom of Zeus in Greek/Libyan mythology. Zeus who conquered Egypt and fought Cronus in Crete.
I always thought Rexor etc and some of the other warriors with their long hair looked like band members from Iron Maiden or something. I kept looking to see or hear Bruce Dickinson scream! 🤣
I would kill to have Ty DM for the Expanse cast. Better yet, have them play the Roci crew.
Holden: Bard, Valor
Noami: Wizard, Abjuration or Artificer, Battle Smith
Amos: Either artificer, Battle Smith (mechanic and uses guns) or Barbarian, Bear Totem Warrior
Bobbie: Fighter, Battlemaster
Clarissa: Barbarian, Bezerker
Drummer: Ranger, Gloomstalker
Dude, Holden's totally a Paladin.
@mitchellforney6109 Fair point, but what kind of Oath did he take? He's definitely Neutral Good. He'd also probably multiclass into Bard anyway. He'd likely choose Lore or Eloquence.
@@dragoninthewest1 Oath of the Ancients, for sure. "Through acts of mercy, kindness, and forgiveness, kindle the light of hope in the world, beating back despair. Where there is good, beauty, love, and laughter in the world, stand against the wickedness that would swallow it. Where life flourishes, stand against the forces that would render it barren. If you allow the light to die in your own heart, you can’t preserve it in the world.
Be the Light. Be a glorious beacon for all who live in despair. Let the light of your joy and courage shine forth in all your deeds."
The Georgia playground graphic was perfect 😂
Yet another thing that is iconic in the movie is the soundtrack, by Basil Poledouris. You mentioned it in the end, it really helps to set the atmosphere!
Nordman from Vanaheim have red hair while the Aesir from Asgard are blond. Conan has been brought further north to Vanaheim in the Conan the Barbarian movie.
Valeria is the name and Valerian and she appears in Robert E. Howard's Conan story "Red Nails".
The rest of the video is good.
I remember reading in the IMDB trivia that the wheel was too well-made and balanced, and too easy to push. So in filming, they had a bunch of extras off camera pushing the other way…..
I'm rewatching The Expanse series. So, so good. Just saw the episode where Draper rescues Naomi - never gets old. I miss the excitement and anticipation of new Expanse episodes....hint, hint.
There are two improvised scenes where Bobby loses his seriousness and laughs in the series. The first is in the ship with Avasarala who puts on her Boots, the camera takes her out of the field but we see that she laughs afterwards.
Wes was spot-on about Milius. He was somewhat open about messing with people via his feigned craziness and not blending in with Hollywood attitudes from what I've seen of interviews. It's telling that his director buddies would crack a smile and shake their heads while telling those stories. Of course, after having a serious stroke many years ago, he couldn't really talk anymore so the stories largely remained as-is at that point.
He seemed like the guy the great directors of the age would go to for help & suggestions on certain things. From what I gathered, he had some involvement in the creation of the USS Indianapolis speech in Jaws, for example. The go-to guy for certain things.
The Wheel of Pain resonates with me. I was injured in the military at 19 yrs old, and been in pain ever since. I’m in my 50’s now. I worked a trade job nearly 30 yrs, providing for my family despite the pain…. I kept pushing the wheel. I was set free from the wheel after a nearly 20 year battle with the VA to get my full disability compensation. I know what it’s like to be chained to the wheel, and forced to push despite the pain, weather, and circumstances. I recently got the Wheel of Pain tattooed on me in remembrance of my struggle.
I love that Ty can recite the whole thing 😘 (His camera's had an upgrade lately too, right? I'm a little behind...) Love it.
Robert E. Howard is such an underrated author. RIP
The answer to the Riddle of Steel is simple. In fact, it's the very first thing that they put up on the screen. It's kind of a blink and you'll miss it kind of thing.
This is the best breakdown of this movie I've ever seen. finally, a review that puts the film into its philosophical context. You guys are awsome.
Fun discussion this week. So glad you chose this movie. Conan the B and Dragonslayer are my top 2 in this category.
I'd never seen the Robot Chicken short so that was a tasty bonus.
Glad I stayed till the end. I had seen Conan - The Musical before, but it was still as funny as the first time.
Thanks for the show :D
Love the discussion and what you guys are doing with the channel. Grew up with these movies and still revisit them several times a year. Recently found the "The Expanse" series and am thoroughly enjoying it. Keep up the good work. 👍
As much as I want to believe Thulsa Doom's version of the Riddle of Steel I always come back to the fact that the sword Conan was using when he broke Rexor's sword belonged to an Atlantean king and was likely just better made than his father's.
Doesn't that prove that Doom was right? Conan's father told him that he could trust the steel, using his own sword as the example. Doom tells Conan that steel is nothing compared to the flesh that wields it. Then Conan breaks the sword to kill Doom. The flesh WAS stronger; Conan had become a man that can rely on himself more than any blade. And Doom was the one who forged him into that man.
3rd time seeing this episode! Once live while they were recording it, once with Patreon bingo live viewing and now the public version. Love these guys! They totally need to do an Aliens deep dive with Ty doing a bunch of the dialog from the movie!
I heard that all of the dialogue Gerry Lopez gave was actually dubbed over. It was another actors voice. Found this online "In the end, Dino De Laurentiis wanted to overdub the lines from Arnold and Gerry, and Milius only won half of that battle. "This was more of Dino’s bullshit. He stirred up the guys at Universal because he hated me and had lost control of the picture. Well they kept Arnold’s voice but we had to overdub Gerry which was a waste of time. What I did is find a sound guy who helped me find a guy whose voice was exactly like Gerry’s. Subotai’s voice isn't Gerry, but it sounds like Gerry."
Great movie from my childhood. I rewatched it recently and looked up a bunch of the actors. Fun trivia and deep dive guys. Keep these coming.
As a huge fan of both the Conan film and the original Robert E. Howard stories, I'd like to add some details that aren't as well explained if you don't read the novels. Yes, the Hyborian Age is a period in the history of our world set an unspecified amount of time in the past, generally considered to be somewhere between roughly 10,000 BCE - 20,000 BCE, and the core idea of the entire mythos is the cyclical nature of history. That all living beings are fated to begin as barbarians, eventually form into civilisations, grow fat and decadent, which will inevitably lead to the doom of their civilisations and a return to barbarism, only for history to then repeat itself forever. Howard staunchly subscribed to the notion that civilisation is merely a thinly veiled illusion cast over the true nature of mankind; barbarism; and that the most noble and true life a man can lead is one of genuine struggle against the base reality of nature itself. Hunt, kill, feed, mate. To Howard that is what mankind really is, just another animal, just an ape, and everything else, laws and hierarchies, cultures and rituals, are all just human delusions.
Thulsa Doom and Conan's arch-nemesis Thoth-Amon, and the Stygian worshippers of Set the Old Serpent are essentially proto-Egyptians, and in the world building essay 'The Hyborian Age' Howard goes into great detail about how the various future wars and migratory waves will eventually set the stage for the Ancient World as we recognise it. Vanaheim, the homeland of the red-haired Vanir eventually be swallowed by the sea as the glaciers melt and sea levels rise, just like Atlantis, and the Vanir will flee, cutting a path south to eventually become the first Pharaohs of Egypt. The river Styx that forms the border between Stygia and Shem will flood and become the mediterranean sea, separating Africa from Europe etc. etc.
Some may think the presence of magic kills this illusion, however, it is all technically sword and technology. Yes there is magic, but magic in the Conan Mythos is very much that idea of "any sufficiently advanced technology". All magic in Conan falls under the umbrella term 'sorcery', and sorcery is a pact made with one of the great old ones, the eldritch abominations that exist in the Outer Dark, an unfathomable place beyond the borders of reality. By touching your mind to these alien entities you may glimpse the tiniest fragment of their infinite knowledge of the true nature of reality and through that gain the power to manipulate and bend it in various ways, raising the dead or shapeshifting, summoning demons and tempests, charming people with a mere look like Thulsa Doom does to Conan's mother, but it is a knife's edge a sorcerer walks between power and madness, as this knowledge is so far beyond what a mortal mind is capable of understanding that too much "cosmic truth" will invariably lead to insanity. It isn't really magic, it's extradimensional alien science.
A huge part of what makes the Conan film so impactful is that all of this is right there in the film, hidden just beneath the surface, but the film respects the viewer enough to not frontload it as a lore dump. It isn't necessary to know the history of Stygia and its relation to ancient dark Acheron, or that the Cimmerians are the devolved descendants of the Atlanteans, but because Howard thought it all out beforehand and stuck meticulously to his fictional history of the world as closely as possible, it does so much heavy lifting when it comes to making the world of the Hyborian Age feel so authentic.
10,000-20,000 BCE? I get that it's fantasy but if that is the time period they would not have steel swords.
@@yensid4294 Due to the cyclical nature of Conan's world the technology to make steel will invariably get lost when the current civilisations descend into barbarism. Then invented again by their successors, then lost again, then invented again and so on for all of eternity. No matter how technologically advanced we get, eventually we will always return to sticks and stones only to repeat this cycle over and over. Civilisation in Howard's mythos is never anything but a temporary reprieve from our true nature as human beings. It may last a thousand years, or ten thousand, but eventually all civilisations will be reduced to ashes.
Such an entertaining discussion guys!
They went the whole time without one mention of Mako.
Even when he was there for the final battle they said "only two guys".
Also, no mention of Valaria's return.
Or "do you want to live forever?" - which I guess influenced Highlaner
You guys are making me want to watch this movie again. Not seen it since the 80s when I was a kid.
I am so glad they play the musical!! The whole podcast I was humming it and wondered if it was going to be brought up 😂 perfect
Well they killed his mother, his father, his people and they took his father's sword. And that is what grieves him the most!
A few Conan factoids:
-Gerry Lopez did give a great performance but Milius dubbed his dialogue with an Asian actor
-The actor who played Conan's father William Smith made his niche as a low budget Charles Bronson who they originally wanted for the role
-The Sword and the Sorcerer the best Conan ripoff was made based on the hype of Arnold playing Conan in a big budget picture and was finished and released in theaters 2 weeks before Conan in 1982
The truly annoying thing about the King Conan movie fiasco is that of all the reboots/sequels we've been (and are being) subjected to, a King Conan film is the only one that is a genuinely legitimate idea in the context of both the first movie and RE Howard's original stories...
The non-Arnold "Conans" have been shallow knockoffs. More like they are "Onans".
Arnold is sadly in his career twilight, and a proper King Conan will not happen in today's Hollywood. No courage. REH was a phenomenal storyteller and was only getting better; he could have been up there with the greatest fantasy authors if he could have mastered his beasts instead of the tragic finality he went with. His stories are incredibly non-PC, and therefore impossible to produce as film short of a megadirector like Tarantino taking on the project.
Holy smokes, how did I forget about The Sword and the Sorcerer? That 3 bladed sword was awesome. It's not Glaive awesome but still awesome. And the bad guy is THE 80's BAD GUY.
From Queen of the Black Coast:
"[The] chief [of the gods of Cimmeria] is Crom. He dwells on a great mountain. What use to call on him? Little he cares if men live or die. Better to be silent than to call his attention to you; he will send you dooms, not fortune! He is grim and loveless, but at birth he breathes power to strive and slay into a man's soul. What else shall men ask of the gods? … There is no hope here or hereafter in the cult of my people. In this world men struggle and suffer vainly, finding pleasure only in the bright madness of battle; dying, their souls enter a gray misty realm of clouds and icy winds, to wander cheerlessly throughout eternity."
Props to the OG, R. E. Howard.
OK. This is cool and I absolutely love the movie. But, let us not forget that Conan was brought to life by Robert E Howard in pulp fiction stories. The real Conan was never a slave, his childhood is glossed over. He was Cimmerian, and he came forth. Conan a slave? Ha!
Thanks for covering this excellent, iconic film. I have to point out that you both consistently misnamed the character VALERIA (not 'ValeriaN'-that's a different film/comicstrip).
Ty says the movie version of Conan is more the Frazetta style and not the REH. I disagree...yes, in the REH books he was described as panther like in his movements. However, he was also described, many times, as being very tall with big muscles. He had a broad chest and was stronger than any other man. Conans physicality was always described as him being big and swift.
His father was a blacksmith.
Awesome🤩 The meredith ensign was totally poppy from Mythic Quest voiced by her - Charlotte Nicdao
The unrated version has a scene where a guy is getting friendly with a Llama just before Conan punches the camel
An hour + review of 1982 Conan?! FUCK YEAH!!!!
Fan #4 here... the Crom is strong in this one :)
As a kid, it was awesome to see Gerry Lopez in Conan and at Pipeline. Hell, I grew up in St. Louis.
Guys, check Midnight Edges answer to the riddle of steel. In my view, Conans dad and Thulsa Doom are wrong. Conan strength was defeated, his dad's steel broke but His friend saved him from the tree of woe. His girlfriend traded her life for him. The original quote at the beginning of the movie is a clue to the real answer.
Y'all keep saying he "was" like this or that. Milius is still alive.
these two drive me a little crazy sometimes. no mention of the great Mako? who plays the wizard and basically does the magic that saves Conan from death and fights against Thulsa's men in that final battle. or the whole rescue mission they are actually on? snatching the king's daughter back from the cult? or the actual ending when Conan snaps out the spell that Thulsa has him under and chops his head off using three effing swings? honorable mention also should have been given to Conan The Destroyer which isn't a bad movie either. Wilt Chamberlain! also no real mention of the Gregorian soundtrack and musical score?
Yes Mako was awesome.
Mako's great in the original Conan. No argument here.
But Conan the Destroyer!? It is a piece of crap, end of story!No offense.
Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis, and the rise of the sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of. And onto this, Conan, destined to wear the jeweled crown of Aquilonia upon a troubled brow. It is I, his chronicler, who alone can tell thee of his saga. Let me tell you of the days of high adventure!
Love this movie so much, but recently rewatched Conan the Destroyer and didnt find it held up.
Sword and Sorcery Die Hard: “Now I have a repeating crossbow. Ho-ho-ho”
I'd say Willow, Krull and LOTR all count as high fantasy, just very different flavors of it. Dragonslayer is low fantasy for most of the movie until the ending, and Beastmaster is like an old Jack Vance story brought to life with cheesy dialogue and a cheeky rogue of an anti-hero. The Conan movies (and yes, I include the Momoa one) are just as much sword and sandal as the old Ray Harryhausen movies like the Sinbad ones or the Greek myth ones.
Conan is very large in the books. He is never described a slight or thin at all. “ a giant in stature “ is often used in the books.
lol holy shit - Conan the Musical was awesome!
Gerry Lopez only really appeared in John Millius films.
In the top five, no mention of the Oscar winning Gladiator….. it certainly had a lot of swords and sandals, but no sorcery. Hmm.
gladiator has nothing to do with sword & sorcery..
Does anyone know the name of the music track that plays at the end of the each Ty & That Guy podcast. Asking for a friend (fan #23).
One of the reasons this film is so compelling is that there IS some very real truth to it. But I agree with Ty, Nietzsche's Uberman philosophy IS a a pile of Puppy Poo. The REAL 'Will to Power' is about continuing to ENDURE, and not giving up. In 2006's 'Rocky Balboa', Rocky says that it's not about how hard you can hit, but how hard you can GET hit and keep moving forward. That is where 'Conan' has real relevance.
I know this on a deep, personal level. I endured lethal health problems as a child, to rise up as a very powerful young man (6'3" 320lbs, could lift a 150lb Dumbbell with one arm repeatedly), but in 1993, at 22, I started suffering Chronic Pain.
It took me 20 years and 13 specialists to finally find the cause- Inoperable Spinal Damage (Spondylolisthesis) & over the last 15 years, this monster has taken everything away from me. My Career, My Hobbies, my Ability to Socialize & most importantly, my Marriage. My Wife is divorcing me, NOT (She says) because I am disabled, but because I am a 'Selfish, Betraying, Gold-Digging, Sexist, Racist, Transphobe, Nazi, who cannot provide for her.' That she has admitted I have not changed since we married, combined with the fact she's in the top 7% of US Wage Earners, kind of makes this accusation... a bit dubious. I suspect she just can't face that she CAN'T deal with having a disabled Husband, but it's easier to make me a Monster, than admit that to herself.
This entire experience reminds me of another film Arnold starred in, with a quote that when you replace 'Terminator' with 'Chronic Pain' fits perfectly-
"Listen, and understand! That Terminator is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear! And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"
All I can DO is endure.
one of the best sword and sorcery movies from the last ten years is the Nicholas Cage movie 'Mandy'. Its about a Vietnam veteran whose wife is murdered by a bunch of psychadelic hippies. it follows the story beats of a Conan-esque movie to a t, with the deranged hippie cult leader acting as the conniving sorceror villain Conan often slew.
great film.
Ok, so... as far as John McClane w/ a sword goes, we can thank a certain Mr. Tarantino for giving us a glimpse of that when Bruce Willis picks up a Katana in Pulp Fiction. It's right there.
Ergo: Die Hard is *almost* the greatest sword and sandals movie ever made.
King Conan!
Don't forget about Max Von Sydow in Strange Brew as Brewmiester Smith 🤣
Never forget Max Von Sydow!
Conan's wheel in a strongman event in....The Arnolds.
The OG Ray Harryhausen 7th Voyage of Sinbad & Jason & the Argonauts & Clash of the Titans, Sword & Sorcerer, Conan, Dragon Slayer, Spartacus
Wes Chatham would probably be a good Conan.
He's a bigger dude (Conan was more like a college football player than bodybuilder), strong jaw, and he's good at action, darkness, but also charming and seems like there's a reason people would want to be around him.
I mean, I wouldn't really care if Paul Giamatti was Conan, as long as it was a good script. I mean, James Earl Jones wasn't in fighting shape, but he's got gravitas and a script and a director's vision to make us believe.
Wes, it's the riddle of steel, not the steel, please man... As for why the movie was so special and levels above the others in the genre, you guys forget to mention the obvious, it was based on books! On stories written from Howard, a great writer, he created a whole universe for Conan, as you said, there is depth in the world of the movie, but this was already in pages, the director just had to depict it on screen, he had a head start, to be fair.
Sword and Sand at its best!
"We had desolation of Smaug recently"
Whos going to tell Ty that it was ten years ago?
Hey Amos, do you play the golden storm trooper in Ashoka?
This movie to me is like right there with the first Star Wars
In the greatest opening in film history, we see the montage of Conans father and mother crafting the Fathers Sword, a masterpiece and one of the greatest swords in film. Then Conans father tells Conan 'The Riddle of Steel' (high grade steel formula was considered a secret) 'What is stronger, the steel blade or the hand that wields it'? His father, a master blacksmith, reasons it is the blade. 'Nothing in this world can you count on. Not women, not beasts, but this. This you can count on.' He is wrong, and is torn appart by dogs, and later his sword fails and is broken. Thulsa Doom, in JEJs greatest role other than the voice of Darth Vader, asks Conan the same riddle. He says it is flesh, and he is wrong, beheaded by the broken fathers sword. Finally Conan guesses the answer. It is neither. It is Will. The will of the wielder. It is Conans Will for Vengeance that was strongest.
conan the musical totally killed me 😂😂😂
Was it Milius or DeLaurentis who made Airwolf?
Arnold wasn't really struggling, he sold his brick laying business for 930K back in the early 70's. Plus he had all his weightlifting money.
You'll probably mention this but it's when he sees the twin snakes is that's what triggers him you know when he cut that big snake
Beowulf. Everyone forgot Beowulf.
WHAT. A. TALE.
It's totally a cheesy 80's Fantasy B movie in the best way possible, but with a music score epic enough to rival Star Wars and Lord of the Rings
Top 10 guy movie of all time
What is best in life?
To crush your enemies, see dem driven before you, and to hear de lamentation of de vimmen!
Hearing Wes say "welcome back".
The spirits are the Valkyres
Ty, you need to make this old as f#$k Conan movie happen. Your version sounds even better than doing a Logan/Wolverine equivalent.
I remember reading back in the nineties that one massive Conan fan thought Arnold was a terrible choice based on his enormous physique. If anything, he thought he matched the lithe, panther like but still obviously tough as shit description of the books and should have got the part instead.
That fan? One Iggy Pop, and honestly I can just about see it
I loved Conan as a teenager and I read the comic books endlessly, I believe that is what drove the casting for the movie based upon how Conan was drawn. But I never thought Arnold was a great choice, he made Conan look like a dullard rather than a stratigist that was huge, smart and fast!
Wes, Conan isn't historical in the literal sense. Hyperborea was what the ancient Greeks called Northern Europe. They had many myths about the barbaric peoples of the North, Western Europe & Eurasia. Oddly, the myth about Hyperborea is that it is a paradise free from war & strife. So it is a mythologized fantasy version of real peoples who the Greeks heard about set in an undetermined time BCE. Since they use steel, it can't be the Bronze Age soooooo, early Iron Age (1200 BCE)
My mom was a HUGE Edgar Rice Burroughs fan so we had all the Tarzan & John Carter/Mars paperback books illustrated by Frazetta & other famous artists in the house. She also loved Doc Savage & Conan the Barbarian which she read as a kid. This movie got played a lot at my house lol.
In the Time between when the Oceans Drank Atlantis, and the Rise of the Kings of Aryas, there was an Age Undreamed Of! Unto this, Conan! Destined to Wear the Jeweled Crown of Aquilonia, Upon a Troubled Brow! It is I, His Chronicler Alone Who Can Tell You of this Saga. Let Me Tell You of the Days of High Adventure!!! (Queue the kettle drums)
Says This Guy as loud as he can when wasted at the bar, or cranked on his stereo as I head out 4x4ing
Why no mention of older films like Jason & the Argonauts? I.e. people actually wearing sandals and carrying swords.
So, we read the comics at my house growing up. My mother bought them and had a book of Frank Frazetta images and some prints. So of course we saw the film in the theater when it came out. And I'm pretty sure rented the VHS at least once. I don't really any of us being overly impressed though we didn't hate it and liked some parts and some performances , i.e. Sandahl Bergman & James Earl Jones. But despite growing up a Conan fan, I haven't felt the slightest interest in watching it again.
I'm pretty sure the images of the posters with the woman clinging to the he-man's leg started with illustrations for John Carter of Mars. Mom's Fraztta bock was full of such images. So, those posters are hardly Conan ripoffs.
I think it's a little odd for people so fanatical about the film to not know much about the source.
Disagree about GOT. It is sword and sorcery and much more.
John milius wrote this entirety. Oliver stones version was dumped
🔔👍🏻
WOOOOO PIG SOOOOIE
Yeah the kid that wack Conan's hands and comes back as a grown man I bet ur right
off topic for the video but Ty looking even more like a snack with these glasses. Fat crush getting fatter, baybay! 😍
A deep dive that doesn't even stress the greatness of the soundtrack...calling that a glaring omission would be an understatement. Another cringey comment is the mention of "homophobia" in that great scene with the cult priest. It's not a problem with Milius, but with your brainwashing.