I know. I was defintely expecting it to bow to Jacob on my first viewing, and even on my second, because they spent so much of the movie setting up how good of a person Jacob is.
Did anyone else notice that Bunty asked for “half a dozen” duplicate suitcases and then when they were all getting ready to shell-game it up there were only 5? Half a dozen plus the original should have been 7. I was convinced there were two more being taken by others through a different route and that the five were only diversions. This movie set up so many plot twists and paid none of them off.
Yeah! I missed that it would have been 7 with the original, so I was actually waiting for Tina to sweep in with the 6th one. Until the very end. Then I was just like. Oh they don’t know what half a dozen means. 😅
This would have made the movie so much better! I felt like the entire middle part of the movie was kind of meaningless. Atleast seeing that it "helps" to confused him would have made it make sense. But it honestly felt like the writers found that too difficult? It feels like watching a sherlock holmes movie without showing the deductive reasoning at work and the feeling of "ahhh that's how it happened".
Another thing that left me puzzled. What was up with Yusuf Kama? Was his mission just ever so simple as to infiltrate the Grindelwalds top henchmen? That left me so dissatisfied with his role in the plot.
Getting Queenie back probably. Dumbledore suspects that Queenie isn’t turned, because her motive is not bad. The moment Gellert had her read his mind, Yusuf could literally talked to her in his head and conspire against Grindelwald
I think of it like smoke and mirrors the point was to be pointless because using Queen or to monitor his thoughts and giving him a mission to prove himself is a distraction & waste of resources while everyone else got a lot done
No one is discussing how amazing the casting and acting of Richard Coyle's version of Aberforth is? It was so freaking on point I legit believed they were the same person
You mean like the same person as the Aberforth in the HP movies? If so, I actually really agree. When I was in the cinema watching the film, I thought the same thing! They even look very similar, the two actors! That was so well done.
Also, Richard Coyle definitely did his homework (I mean, he most likely did? I hope he did?)! The way he brings Aberforth on screen; the way he stands, the posture, those kind of gestures are just like the Aberforth we saw in Deathly Hallows.
I really liked that, even after the blood pact was destroyed, Dumbledore and Grindelwald couldn't bring themselves to finish each other off. It really shows how deep their love for each other goes, and that the blood pact wasn't really the reason they couldn't kill each other. It was just a physical barrier; the emotional barrier that led to its creation in the first place is still present.
I don’t think grindewald loves Dumbledore. That end scene is their souls fighting inside the blood pact. Not them actually fighting. That’s why they’re in the like foggy place. It’s inside the blood pact
@@evskiicf3998 I'm not so sure, since Grindelwald having some remnants of love for Dumbledore also has the potential to make him a far more interesting and complex villain. Both sides believe fully in their conflicting ideologies, but neither can truly bring themselves to hate the other. In that way, sending Credence to assassinate Dumbledore was not only a way of circumventing the blood pact, but also his way of avoiding having to personally kill the one person he's ever truly loved.
@@eliasroos7185 Im with you. I think there is some love and thats what stopped them from fighting further at this time. Im of the mind that Grindlewald's love for Dumbledore will eventually fade enough that he will be willing to kill and thats what will lead up to the big battle in '45.
My favorite part of the WHOLE movie was when Newt told Jacob that the candy he got from the Slytherin boys was cockroach cluster and how it flashed the scene to the boys who couldn't be older than like 2nd or 3rd year just cackling away. I mean it was just so....Slytherins being Slytherins that I loved it.
Yes! It was so good to see Slytherins just being kids! They weren’t being cruel, they were just pranking the clueless Muggle. It was the representation I needed!
I think the bloodpact breaking was one of the few things that made perfect sense in this movie: when their spells met, it was not with the intention of fighting one another, but to kill/protect a third party. This would directly prove to the bloodpact that they had opposite intentions, without actually breaking the vow of the bloodpact
Small nitpick in the grand scheme of ludicrous nonsense but when Lally and Jacob go through the book portkey, they do verbally acknowledge it’s a portkey. However they enter the train through a fireplace with green flames. Which indicates the Floo Network. Portkeys and the Floo Network are two TOTALLY separate things. I’m pretty sure in the 5th HP book they specifically think to use a portkey because it can’t be traced by the Floo Network which is under surveillance. Like visuals MEAN things and there is zero consistency or regard for the canonical lore.
@@stephenking5852 Valid, but the Floo Network and Apparition are both still different from Portkeys. We don’t know if it’s possible to Apparate from a portkey. For the sake of argument let’s say it is. Changing your method of teleporting in the middle of the act is super dangerous (hence why Ron got splinched), like jumping from a moving car to a moving train, so unless it’s life or death I don’t see why they would change from Portkey to Floo in the middle of the teleport especially when you’re toting a muggle who would only weigh you down and make it harder. The fact that this movie is making us get into such needlessly complicated details is a sign of its poor storytelling.
@@Palladum12 the way he came out and said he loves portkeys immediately sorta says they literally just arrived from that instance with no stop tho 🤷♂️ So the only way is to portkey into a fireplace with the powder at the ready to announce the train as the going point. Don't get why the portkey didn't take them to a train station as it has to be a wizard train like hogwarts. Otherwise why is a random muggle train fireplace in Germany connected to the floo network? Or is it a secret compartment for wizards that muggles can't see that stops them from using it and it can work as normal for wizards?
@@Palladum12 Which makes sense because a Portkey is set to a specific location, and I'd imagine a moving train is pretty hard to pin down. It's just a shame that they cut it the way they did because it certainly looks like they Portkeyed into the Floo network.
i love Super Carlion Brothers, but their theories are jsut too much for non Harry Potter fans. it will be very difficult to explain in movies, or if they would, the movie would be 5 hours long.
1:03:24 I took it to mean that Aberforth’s lover was “put away” by her parents when the relationship was discovered, and that he never knew she was pregnant until it was too late and the child had already been sent away, out of reach (who knows how long later, because what happened with Ariana upended his whole world). By the time he would have heard and could investigate, it would have led him to a sunken ship and all hope lost. How he came to communicate via mirror should have been explained.
My theory on Bunty’s mission is this. Because grindelwald can see the future they gave her a task that made her interact with muggles, that he doesn’t think much of or anything of, so he just disregarded her task entirely. Basically like voldemort doesn’t understand that which he doesn’t value. I feel like it is the same for her mission and grindelwald
I think Bunty's part in this story was what Newt observed back in Crimes where he said "Grindelwald doesn't seem to understand the nature of things he considers simple". While Newt considers Bunty to be an indispensable assistant and holds her in high regard, we don't actually see her use any magic that Grindelwald would consider being significant. It would then make sense that the missions of Lally/Jacob, Theseus/Newt, and Kama would be under heavy scrutiny by Grindelwald and his acolytes, thereby giving Bunty the invisibility she'll need to carry out her part of the mission. It might have been Dumbledore's plan all along to have the seemingly pointless parts of the missions to distract Grindelwald.
Exactly what I was thinking. It also goes along with the idea that anyone can be a hero, not just those who are chosen like harry or highly skilled like Newt.
I completely agree. Since the cases were made the muggle way rather than with magic, there was a higher possibility of Grindelwald not foreseeing the plan. Also having Newt think that he had the actually case worked in their favor as we saw the look of dispare when the case was destroyed (thus selling the plan that Grindelwald’s followers were able to dispose of the twin Qilin) and for Bunty to pull through with having the actual case
This; the POINT of this movie WAS TO BE POINTLESS. They even mention it in the train scene. most of their objectives are pointless, but meant to make Grindelwald think they had some master plan that was different than; walk right into his trap and uproot it from the inside. As soon as Grindelwald went after the Qilin; SPECIFICALLY to CAPTURE it, Dumbledor likely figured out immediately what his plan was "Like every schoolboy would know, the story of our history with the Qilin goes as far back as we can remember" literally EVERYONE is expected to know the significance of the Qilin in the wizarding world. I think the movies MAIN flaw is just not showing Grindelwald's side more showing him overthinking all of Albus' plans.
@@kevin-by1dz exactly. And they didn't have a reason to kill it, so i'm fine with it. Green still may not have been the best design choice, but oh well.
I found the Credence plotline very poetic and sad. History repeated itself for the Dumbledore brothers, they had another Obscurus family member they tried to and couldn't save, they had another three-way 'duel' with Grindelwald with an obscurus as a (this time intentional) target... It would have been even more poetic if the pact would have been formed during the duel that killed Ariana and broken during the duel over Credence, but sadly the blood pact was made before that duel
Just dumping the questions in my head after watching the movie: where did Nagini go? How much time has passed since the last film so that Credence has long hair now? What happened when they all went to Hogwarts at the end of CoG? Why were Nicolas Flamel and the philosopher’s stone and that magical communication book introduced if they have no place in the plot of the series? What made Queenie join Grindelwald if she was going to easily change her mind in the next movie? HOW CAN JACOB SEE HOGWARTS? Why is Mcgonagall there? Why did Dumbledore give Jacob a wand? Or theseus a tie? Or Bundy a job? Why couldn’t Newt and Theseus apparate from the place theseus was imprisoned because they would be able to apparate without a wand if they are such skilled wizards? How could Grindelwald escape from the temple if Newt couldn’t even apparate a few steps forward when he was trying to get his case back? How were Grindelwald’s followers able to smoke/fly the way death eaters could do in the HP movies, is that just a common evil wizard thing now? Why did we never see any other teacher in Hogwarts besides Dumbledore and Mcgonagall, especially the Headmaster? Why did Grindelwald need a Qilin to see the future if he can already see the future? Why did they use the room of requirement if all they needed was a portkey? Why did Bunty ask for half a dozen suitcases to be made when they needed only four (4+Newt’s original=5) ?, why didn’t dumbledore attend Jacob and Queenie’s wedding? Who officiated their wedding? How can they broadcast the election live to the whole wizarding world when in GoF they couldn’t even show the audience what was happening in the maze during the triwizard tournement? What is the deal with the mirror dimension/ the deluminator and Dumbledore’s weird compass? Weren’t Dumbledore and Grindelwald supposed to not have spoken since Ariana’s death until their legendery duel? What happened to the snitch Dumbledore caught? What was the point of Yusuf’s mission? Wasn’t finding the deathly hallows Grindelwald’s whole deal? Why wasn’t he searching for them? Why was Grindelwald in a car when we know wizards don’t use them? What was that creature in the cave prison? How can MACUSA be okay with Graves sentencing Newt and Tina to death for breaking the statute of secrecy but letting Grindelwald go after he set fire to the whole city of Paris and almost destroyed it??????
Since it’s been 10 Years since CoG that could explain why Nagini and Nicolas Flamel aren’t in the movie because it’s been 10 Years and hopefully it will explain where they’re at in later films. This could also explain why Queenie ultimately changed her mind because she has been trapped with Grindelwald for 10 years doing his bidding or whatever and missing Jacob and I thought Jacob shop has gotten to the point where it’s at now where he doesn’t have very many baked goods there’s no traffic there etc.
Easy answer to everything u just said. It was a trash movie with bad writing. Like they took that guy's memories of his sister and the story completely forgot about it like what?
The election was actually for the title of Supreme Mugwump. A title that Dumbledore is known for holding. I think that's why the Qilin bowed to Dumbledore, forshaddowing how he would.
@@Amandab993 Again poor story-telling. I swear if I would've heard the words "the international confederation of wizards" then I wouldn't have had so many questions the whole movie. They really made it feel like this was a wizard king/queen role that had power over all international ministry of magics and last time I remember reading the books, the confederation doesn't supersedes any one country's government
Thank you! I had no idea what the election was for. At first I thought it was for the German minister of magic but obviously not if the whole wizarding world is paying attention to the results. And why did the current Mugwamp want to help get Grindlewald “elected”? Let the people vote he says... then nobody has any say besides the qilin.
@@kevintyson1947 They did say International Confederation of Wizards. I just watched the movie a while ago. But I completely forgot what the head of that was called until I read this comment. 🤪 I thought for a bit when he declined that this must be the position he supposedly declined but... no, that was Minister of Magic so... anyway...
I say this with the utmost seriousness: they need to stop playing around and hire you guys as either writers or deep lore consultants for all remaining Harry Potter properties. Because every shred of Harry Potter content that has come from this channel makes more sense and is more entertaining than this entire Fantastic Beasts trilogy thus far.
I always saw Bunty's mission on getting imitations of the case through a muggle leather goods store as a smarter move in a way that although the Geminio spell will automatically duplicate it, something Dumbledore mentioned in the Harry Potter series about magic leaving traces. Getting it done through actually getting it duplicated with an actual leather goods store makes it harder for all the other members of the team to recognize who actually has the case.
Exactly. It would have been easier for grindi to see that the spell will be used to hide sth. But going the muggle route made it harder for grindi to have a vision
Furthermore, the surprise for Newt and then subsequent "not that one" to Jacob allows for them all to believe that Newt has the case with the Qilin, but he doesn't. His certainty that he has the correct case makes it harder for the villains to find Bunty.
An interesting theory/side-note: Dumbledore's three-card monty with the suitcases turned out to be a magic trick (a bit of mentalism). He was able to influence every person to "choose" a specific random suitcase based on their placement and his interaction with Jacob (note that based on this interaction, Newt picks the case that he does). We see this result when the Lally's case has the books, Theseus's case had quidditch (he played while at Hogwarts), Jacob's case had pastries, and Newt's case simply vanished (not sure why on this point). This is just lick Dumbledore to use "Muggle Magic" to outsmart wizarding world enemies.
But as all magic in real life there is a secret that takes away The magic behind it. As I recall, they asked for "half-a-dozen" copies. That is 6 copies, or maybe 6 including The original? However, when they get to chose a briefcase, they only have 5. Either they made extra just in case someone decided to join in at The last min or Dumbledore didnt take any chances.
@@jacoblundquist395 Sounds like a multiple outs kind of magic trick. I wonder if Dumbledore studied "muggle magics" at some point to learn something that the Grindelwalds and Voldemorts would find so insulting, pointless, and pathetic as to always overlook and never learn. Maybe that's why he's always got an ace up his sleeve...
When Bunty took the case I was like "wait no that's my emotional support suitcase! We need it!" But the point of Bunty's first side quest was to get the audience used to get being off screen, so we're not "suspect" when she's got the Qilin, and also for Newt to be used to not being the vessel for the creatures. It was important for his confidence to be as high as possible to believe he could have had the Qilin. Also that master manipulation tactic by Albus when he shook his head at a case that's not even the case made Newt jump to take it, which was a not correct case anyways. Classic Dumbledore.
There was actually a vote. I understood this whole ceremony as follows: the Qilin bows before the 'worthy' candidate. Then the attendees can rise their wands and shoot these fireworks in the colour of their choice. The Qilin basically offers a suggestion, but it's eventually in the attendees' hands to either follow the Quilin' suggestion (which they mostly do) or stick to their own opinion (in the case it differs from the Qilin's)
The fireworks did TOTALLY seem like a specific mechanic to this election that seemed VERY deliberate even within the confines of the election itself, I agree.
Yes, there was a voting by acclamation, as the Vogel guy also said :) basically all in favour say yay, then all opposes say nay, and the chairperson Vogel say “I find we have elected/decided x”. And if it’s unclear you as a voter can ask for a count of votes but it was really quite onions here that the yay side was in majority (although there should’ve been a “those against say nay, now” preceding the decision being made😅
My biggest gripe is that in the original HP books, the author set up the ending from the very beginning. She planned the whole thing and knew where it was going the entire time. There were always moments in the later books where something that happened or was mentioned in an off-handed way would come back to drastically effect the plot. Things like Barty Crouch giving Sirius the news paper in askaban in book 3. Then in the next book its revealed that he was actually there to help break out his son or wherever. Those things were so clearly planned and calculated and they payed off. There's absolutely nothing like that in the fantastic beasts movies. The chillin was never eluded to in the earlier movies. It had no importance whatsoever until the last hour of the franchise. It should never have been the grand finale. Every beat and plot point in the series felt like an afterthought. Like the didn't explore any of their ideas to make the resolutions satisfying. the harry potter books felt like there was so much exploration full of twists and hints and thats why they were so fun. Like Harry Potter was a full safari ride, whereas Fantastic Beasts was a train trip on tracks taking u from A to B. Idk
I think the “place”, for want of a better term, where Dumbledore and Grindelwald are meeting at the beginning and fighting at the end is sort of like a “blood pact realm”. A place where they can meet and a semi-reality despite where they are physically located. If you watch during their fight scene at the end, the blood pact is breaking in slow motion as they battle. Whilst this is happening, the background also appears to be shattering like glass around them. So I think that one of the things that the blood pact allows them to do is to enter this realm together that they can access, but now that the pact is broken, they won’t be able to. That would explain why it takes so long for them to find Grindlewald later on.
This is cool, except the movie never tells us this. We infer it from information that could be irrelevant. A better movie would’ve at least gave us an idea that this object could transcend realms.
One of them using legilimens and the other one just letting it happen. The one who's being "read" can see the event unfold and interact accordingly. Like how Harry could see what Snape was seeing during lessons. So Albus is all "he's in my head. Tell him you love him and discuss breaking the pact." And then GG inserts his half of the conversation in the same way Voldemort made Harry "see" Sirius in the Dept of Mysteries. That was my interpretation and then they just use this format to have mental conversations from time to time.
I assumed at the end when Grindelwald fell off the cliff he was getting himself outside the barrier which kept wizards from apparating. He could have known where the barrier ended, and falling through it is perfectly allowed.
I think Elphias Doge foreshadowed very well the big "reveal" when he said to Harry at wedding : "...if you don't count Aberforth, and somehow, people never do seem to count Aberforth."
One of the big problems I notice from this trilogy regarding writing, is that it feels like it should've been a novel series first and then have some screenwriters adapt it. Rowling doesn't know how to write for movies (which is not bad, she is a novelist after all, not a screenwriter, both need different set of skills). IDK if anyone else thinks like this, but I strongly feel that the scripts for the three movies would've worked better in book format as they are, and then adapting it.
Honestly when the second movie of this series came out I thought two things, one that maybe they shouldn't have had Newt be the main character anymore and that maybe this should have been a trillogy
I agree. As a writer myself, these movies feel like what would happen if I wrote a screenplay. My stories are a chaotic mess of characters and plotlines, but I have all the time in the world to flesh it all out, not just an hour and a half.
@@Mary_Studios exactly. i feel like it’s only a trilogy to make more money. CoG felt very weird pacing wise and this movie felt very hollow, like nothing of significance happens. One of the best things of the hp series is that everything seems to have a purpose and a greater meaning but this series doesn’t have that.
My interpretation of this unseen magic we see Dumbledore perform is simply that he is the greatest wizard of all time. We see great magic from him in the original series, but is what we have seen really so vastly powerful? We saw his brilliant planning and obvious intelligence but we didn’t get to see the extent of his power. These unexplained and frankly unparalleled acts of magic allow us to see why Dumbledore has earned his title as the greatest. When we see the Quilin bow to Dumbledore it may have symbolized that he is worthy in spite of his mistakes. Like Newt said prior [what’s most important is whether we try to correct our mistakes and do better].
I also think explinations would not of worked for the unknown magic in the original series we had basic spells and they were always set up before and we had the books that can tell us what the spells actually are but in this there is no time to explain every spell because the movie would be 6hrs long for them to explain these advanced spells
Agreed!! Also I don't think we're necessarily owed an explanation for every single kind of magic. There's no explanations behind the magic in, for example, lord of the rings, because it's an accepted part of that universe. Same should be said here, we know the basics from following harry through Hogwarts but im completely down for the idea of 'magic' as a concept existing unexplained and unlimited in the rest of the wizarding world.
I can kind of understand that, but given in the main line Harry Potter series in the movies at least, there are a lot of spells that are performed without being spoken and it has been stated that it is an oversight. Don't get me wrong I think Dumbledore and Bellatrix lestrange are powerful wizards but I don't think they're so powerful that they could go toe to toe with Voldemort using unspoken spells. I think if I hadn't grown up with the books and the movies I would not be as upset but the fact that it has been outright stated that you have to speak the spells, you can't just think them up definitely makes me scoff and roll my eyes every time something isn't explained.
@@almanac4150 No, unspoken magic absolutely exists in the book canon. That was a whole plot point in book 6 where Harry under the influence of felix felicis can finally cast a refilling spell silently when he'd been inept at silent magic up until that point. If your argument is misworded and you meant to say that one can't simply will something to happen, that you need a codified spell to cast to make magic happen, I'd argue that's not the case either. There is a structure and a theory to casting spells that magic wielders need to understand, or at least there appears to be with all the essays and tests students have to work on. But, we see spells and rituals created multiple times by adept practitioners because they understand the theory well enough they can find the spell they need to create the effect they want. To say that Dumbledore or someone of his accomplishments couldn't Macguyver a simple spell using his vast understanding of the nature of magic seems unlikely given what we've seen him do in the books.
I feel like there needs to be a separate film that is basically a long “flashback” to Godric’s Hollow during that summer that Grindlewald and Albus spent together. Show Ariana’s declining health, and Aberforth falling in love with Credence’s mother.
I don't think I need to see all that. But as Ben and J said, Flashbacks would have been an awesome story vessel for us to understand and care...missed opportuinity.
If any movie was the right place to have those flashbacks, it would have been this one. It really feels like the most obvious way to show us the story elements it wanted to convey, and would have been much more effective than the off-hand comments we got instead.
Harry never got an Obscurus because he never intentionally suppressed his magic, he never knew it existed until he met Hagrid. You can’t suppress something you don’t know exists.
Harry did use magic though before he knew it existed. He just didn't know how. A good example was the disappearing glass that got Dudley placed in the cage at the zoo.
@@benparsons4979 No. He thought he was but his dad was a wizard. He left Dean and his mum to keep them safe during the first wizarding war. He was captured and killed by the death eaters.
I think it makes sense that the Qilin chose Dumbledore, I feel like it was hinted at when Newt said "Lally said something earlier about most of us being ultimately imperfect. But even if we make mistakes, terrible things, we can try to make things right. And that's what matters, trying." And Dumbledore WAS trying to be better.
I think the scene at the beginning with the qilin being killed by Avada Kedavra was a good inclusion. Avada Kedavra CAN instantly kill, but if you remember Barty Crouch junior tells Harry’s 4th year class that they could all use the spell against him and he’d have nothing but a nosebleed. Also, like you guys mentioned certain magical animals have resistance to curses, so I took it to be that the qilin has SOME resistance to Avada Kedavra, and this would mean the spell cast would have to be much more powerful to kill a qilin than it would need to be to kill a human. So the spell killing the qilin but not instantly seems like a slightly weaker version of the spell due to the qilin’s slight natural resistance. I get that you would want it explicitly stated though.
Yeah, just like you can't just use a simple spell against a dragon too! Beasts seem to be very different in regards to spells and the talent of the caster as well
the thing about this is, sure, it's an explanation, but it's not an explanation that was given. they have an expert on magical creatures right there, it would take 10 seconds for newt to say something
@@dudaseifert why would Newt, laying alone in the woods being defeated, explain the slow death through a still unknown curse to nobody? We was barely conscious, we didn't need an explaination.
I kind of agree it was my reasoning as well, but if I remember correctly the french woman was the one who killed the qilin and she is more powerfull than a 14years old (also i think it is mentioned that you have to mean to cause harm to perfectly cast the spell, that is why crutio didnt work fot Harry aganinst Bellatrix in the ministry, but this maybe only true for crutio). Certain animals have resistance to curses, but avada kedavra kills even a phoenix, which is a very powerfull creature, but the qilin could be stronger
The impression I got with the voting system was that they WOULD’VE voted, but then Grindelwald came along and said “You remember those super rare qilins we used to use for deciding a leader? I just so happen to have rescued a baby one recently.” And then everyone thought “Great! Let’s use that!” And I also was expecting it to kneel in front of Jacob.
They still vote. The Qilin's bow acts as a highly regarded opinion on who you should vote for as it shows who is pure of heart. After the Qilin bows you see people voting for who they want (as represented via the "fireworks") and there's still a difference in the votes.
Re: Credence and Abberforth--The insinuation in the conversation between Albus and Newt is *Abberforth's lover was sent away due to conceiving a child out of wedlock.* It was (unfortunately) a common practice in those days to ship off unwed mothers to somewhere far away to deliver the child and put the baby up for adoption afterwards. Then, the woman would come back home after "visiting family abroad" like nothing untoward had occurred, thus saving herself and her family from any scandal.
That's what I got from it. Thought that was pretty obvious. So did Abberforth know he got his girlfriend pregnant? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe her family found out before she could tell Abberforth and then was whisked away without so much as a "good-bye".
@@Black-Swan-007 might not be that common a thing in recent history in America I know it was well known enough that people asked my grandparents about it happening to my birth and this was in the 90s in Australia
Maybe the mother's family disaprove of Aberthford because the Dumbledore family had a really bad reputation at that point (the father in jail, the mother dead after years of withdrawing from social live).
That sounds about right. Which begs a question - how AND WHEN did Abberforth and Credence link up and started exchanging mirror massages? Definitely not a few years ago during Crimes of Grindelwald, cause Credence had no idea he was related to Dumbledores until the very end of the movie..
Can anyone just accept that Newt and Theseus may have a normal sibling rivalry and that because Theseus is a extrovert and Newt is introverted that their personalities are at odds and that maybe it's normal sibling things that make Newt uncomfortable yet don't bother Theseus. Theseus seems like the brother who doesn't understand his little introverted brother's obsession with magical creatures.
I think it’s important to make a note of that tho. If in a movie there is an important plot point, it can NEVER just be assumed. It must be explained, even if just in a throw away line.
Dumbledore sent Lally to exactly where she needed to be to foil the assassination attempt on one of Grindelwald's rivals (which she did by destroying the poisoned wineglass meant for that candidate) while Jacob's actions were distracting everyone from what Lally was doing.
That seems like the only mission that had a point. Newt and his brother seemed useless. Yusuf’s task seemed pointless and confusing. Bunty’s task seemed pointless. I feel like the tasks should’ve been both confusing to Grindelwald, but also have had a point.
@@JamesBrown-uv4sn Yusufs task was to infiltrate Grindlewalds team with out knowing that was exactly what he was meant to do. I think it was implied Dumbledore had already given him his mission of going to "spy" on Grindlewald knowing that Grindlewald would Manipulate him into thinking he wanted to join him but Dumbledore knew that his heart was good and he would always choose what is right over what would have been easy. knowing that having him behind enemy lines he would choose what is right at the most crucial moment.
@@JamesBrown-uv4sn that was the point of what they were doing actually. It was their countersight which is why none of their plans seemed to coexist. If it was one big plan, Grindelwald would see it coming.
If the Qilin had bowed before Jacob, that would have shown the entire wizarding world that Muggles have the capacity to be pure of heart, which would have contrasted nicely with Grindelwald's anti-muggle speech moments before...
Introducing the mirror dimension here presents the same problem as the time turners. We now have this extremely useful spell that is never used later in the timeline.
@@ohboi9578 albus is dead at this point and even tells harry he’s also dead and not sure what that world is , could even be in harry’s head like albus alludes to . i don’t think it’s the mirror world but interesting perspective
I think it is interesting that the dumbledore family has a special connection to the phoenix and it also had 2 members of the family who were obscurials, who lived longer than any other magical person who became an obscurial.
I disagree with the idea that the Quilin 'replaced the vote' I think the wizards voted by blasting the symbol associated with the candidate into the air. My interpretation was that the Quilin's Decision was not meant to replace the voting process but instead provide clarity to the voters, as in confirming which candidate had the purest intentions.
I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that the characters in the Harry Potter series are mostly children/told mainly from a child’s perspective, while fantastic beasts is exclusively adults in a different time period with different laws in different countries. While there are definitely things included that shouldn’t be **McGonagall**, the way we see magic done in The Fantastic Beasts series is how I imagine it to be used, especially when there’s certain topics and books Dumbledore banned while he was teaching/once he became headmaster
This!!!! Like we’re used to seeing the wizarding world through the eyes of Harry, oldest being 17 and barely discovered magic at 11. That’s six years of experience. Here we’re seeing mature witches and wizards who are some of the best at what they do, so naturally the magic is more complex due to 20+ years of magical experience
Exactly the conversation my younger sister and I were having. Even in real life history there are things both good and bad that are unheard of or very rare to see nowadays but were commonplace in the past. Well said truly!
I agree. Harry and co have six yrs to magic training. Not to mention how much magic wasn’t passed down, powerful witches and wizards made hogwarts, the death hallows, Horcruxes. HP I feel was just scratching the surface of what magic could do.
Oh, I also really like the scene when the woman that becomes the Mugwamp (i don’t remember how to spell her name) released Jacob from the Cruciatus Curse. This was a quick little scene but it really showed her pureness of heat to help a muggle that she doesn’t know and that Grindelwald ( the new Mugwamp for like 5 seconds) is trying to kill.
@@mandisi5144 yeah and it was esteablished that there is no counter curse to the cruciatus and what did she cast? a counter curse to the cruciatus meaning she's not only pure at heart but extremely powerful
@@ChienaAvtzon no known counter curse for all three of them. Although that idea was contradicted in GOF already when Barty said, he broke out of his father's imperius by being stunned, making stupefy effectively a counter curse to the imperius. But still I'm sure Barty while posing as Moody said, there is no counter curse for all three of them. And even stupefy is only a counter in a roundabout way by shutting off one of the teo connected minds and not just severing the connection as a true counterspell would. What Santos did was literally end Grindelwald's cruciatus and nothing else which should be impossible, hence showing her skill and power. And well for AK. You'd need a spell to bring back the dead. Which we know does not exist.
I interpreted the German Minister for Magic as being the Head Mugwump of the ICW and they were holding elections for the next one. Which would make sense for the qilin to bow to Dumbledore as he eventually takes the head Mugwump title. As well as chief warlock of the wizengamot. Two positions of leadership I feel like J and Ben forgot he had in this video since they say he was "only" the headmaster.
As charms professor at Ilvermorny, it makes sense that almost all of her magic in this movie involved manipulating objects. The book is something she would always have to hand, and performing exceptional charms on its pages reinforces the character or professor and author. Also I think the book was a regular port key to somewhere with a fireplace and then they travelled by floo network to the train
Agreed. They floo’ed out of a fireplace on that train, they didn’t portkey or apparate. The fact that Lally is a charms professor AND a powerful witch is why she’s so accomplished at manipulating books - not the book itself. J & B keep undermining the power these witches have. Tina seems to be the only woman they respect. It’s not just the book- she’s a badass and knows her brand.
I really loved her stuff. A lot of times in Harry Potter media spells are just shooting different colored lights at each other. Fight scenes especially feel like each side is just throwing bolts of light at one another in either bad-guy green or good-guy red. You could replace the wands with sci-fi ray guns and it’d be almost the same. Lally’s magic felt like I’m watching a spell caster use her own style of magic in creative ways. It makes her feel more unique as a character instead of ‘Stupify-caster #5’ plus as an audience member it’s really fun to see.
@@VoidNull9222 Exactly my thoughts. A day before I watched the movie I complained to friends about how the fights are so boring and always only shooting light at each other. I was so happy seeing some more creative fighting spells.
I’ve seen it twice now since it was released in the UK. It really isn’t bad as critics seem determine to make out. Acting was great, complex storyline at times and moved quite quickly but was not boring or difficult to follow if you pay attention. If you are just looking for constant action and dialogue doesn’t hold your attention then this may not be the right movie for you. It’s not Harry Potter, the main characters are all adults. Chemistry between Mads & Jude was brilliant, the relationship between Dumbledore & Grindelwald is actually believable now. Nice moments of comic relief from Jacob, Newt & Theseus. Soundtrack was spot on. They did a good job with this one
I haven't seen it yet, but I'm pretty excited. Most fans I've seen have agreed that it's very good. I honestly would rather believe the fans, you know the people the movie was targeting, over a bunch of critics who don't really seem to enjoy anything fun it seems like. I very rarely agree with critics when it comes to how they judge Sci-Fi/Fantasy movies, or really any movies that I enjoy watching tbh. Majority of the time it seems like the critiques they have are pretty nit picky and it just feels like they wanted to hate it going in so they just pick at everything to hate. Don't get me wrong, most movies aren't perfect, but most movies also aren't a raging dumpster fire like a lot of critics would have you think. I'm just gonna wait until Tuesday and decide how I feel then. The only thing I know about the movie is that Tina was only really a cameo, which is slighty disappointing, but if they do go through with the next 2 movies, hopefully she'll be a bigger role as she was in the first 2 🤷♀️.
@@goldie2425 my suspicion with a lot of the negative critics is that they are scared to say anything positive about the movie for fear of backlash or being cancelled. It’s a shame. But ultimately it’s just someone’s opinion who’s getting paid to give it rather than paying to see the movie. There really is a lot to like about this movie I personally think. I hope you enjoy it too!
@@Strawbjelly yeah, I'd say you're probably right. I don't know I'm biased because I've been a fan of the wizarding world as a whole basically my entire life. I loved the first Fantastic Beasts, the 2nd one was okay, there was still a lot to love about it and again people defintely sugar coated just how bad it was.
The critics of this movie look too closely to scenes. Can't they just leave their reasoning for some time? Will Dumbledore have to tell you every spell he uses? Just leave it be bruh! You don't look this closely to any other films..why are you judging this film like that? To people who are yet to watch this film - it's an amazing film..yes there are small things like that suitcase one especially..but the critics all over the yt are too harsh on this film..go and watch it..it shows such an amazing relationship between Dumbledore and Grindlewald..between Jacob and Queenie..between Newt and Tina (just for 60 sec..but still) and also the new character professor Hicks is also awesome. Go and watch it!
You're not a Wizarding world fan if you didn't like the duels in this film! Say anything about the film's plotholes like the mirror dimension sort of thing, the suitcase replication thing etc but the fights are the best in this film! HP movies didn't do justice with magic by keeping it so, so lazer type. You'd know if you've read books that Dumbledore used a lot of his environment while battling, whereas in the film's they stupidly just connected 2 threads of magic together. Were the elder wand and voldemort's wand brother wands? NO! Then how tf did they show their magic colliding like that! The usage of magic in secrets of Dumbledore is the closest to the books we've come.
For the blood pact: I envision it breaking because, in that moment, Albus and Gellert were taking complete opposite actions. Gellert wanted to kill, Albus wanted to protect. The convergence of their contrasting magic was emblematic of their contrasting souls. Gellert, full of murderous fury. Albus, casting to protect his family. Both men had grown so far apart that the blood pact couldn't stay intact anymore, as it relied on that bond between them.
I had a random thought/theory when Ben said about Bunty something like “…how Newt attracts the beasts.” And you guys are right why are they setting up this admiration story for this poor woman? I can see two options; 1. The more morbid theory - She will be a casualty of this war with Grindlewald and may make some sort of last declaration 2. The more out there theory - maybe she is a magical beast in disguise? One we don’t know about? And she/it/they has taken a keen interest in the man who has his own keen interest in magical beasts. Again just a quick thought x
Can we appreciate the parallel between the Ariana + 3 confrontation/fight and the credence+ 3 scene - the way aberforth and albus were protecting him and grindelwald was attacking- it suggests the dumbledores learnt from that experience and acted first - or… it suggests who was at fault for Ariana’s death (as G was attacking)… idk that’s how I interpreted it
I think the reason why the qilin didn’t die when Credence hit him with the spell is because he probably didn’t actually have the heart to kill it. To preform the spell correctly you need to really want to kill it.
@@benparsons4979 it’s also the killing curse. Even Moody, when he was teaching the unforgivable spells, said that even if all the students in the classroom hit him with the killing curse it would do nothing but tickle him because they have to really mean it, and really want to kill him.
Here’s my question: do we know what, or possibly WHO sunk the boat that had both controversial children of a Lastrange and a Dumbledore? Had this been explored?
One things that bugged my wife and I is that so much of what happened would have been common knowledge in the Harry Potter timeline. If the Qilin bowed to Dumbledore and it was broadcast to the whole wizarding world like it was, that would have been something that was in history books or at least the book about Dumbledore's life. Right?
Right. The broadcasting itself is totally unheard of before in the Wizarding world. Remember , that They were exclusively using only wizard radios in the 1990-s , yet we have magic now that broadcast live footage , like a big LCD Tv.
Maybe the position the qilin bowing was how Dumbledore became the chief warlock of the Wizengamot. Maybe that is the position that was being decided in the movie
@@matthewmccann9932 True . But he had some high position in this exact intstument they had voted on , didnt he? Maybe he wasnt the leader, but something high
The books statet, that Dumbledoor in some point in his life becomes " supreme mugwump" - thats this exact leadership position. And between this movie and grindelwalds defeat are up to 16years,wich must pass before.
I believe Newt would recognize his suitcase anywhere and would protect it no matter what (the same for what is inside - the escape from the Chinese forest was a proof of how Newt's beasts care for him). Bunty asked the Muggle suitcase maker to make half a dozen suitcases, which is far more than what was needed. Grindy had made Theseus, Jacob, Newt, Lally and Yusuf's acquaintance, but not Bunty's. Grindy is a Seer, but what would he make of her? Or his spies? They just saw her leaving the train station with a suitcase and going to a Muggle leather shop - no magic, just Muggle routine. She was the last to leave the Room of Requirement - I suppose that before entering the giant portkey, she switched her fake suitcase for the real one. As she can take good care of the beasts inside it, she kind of told them everything would be all right, and was able to reach Newt at the top of the mountain completely unnoticed (and hiding the suitcase). The "you can't know everything" stuff was about the suitcase switch and not Tina's picture (Tina was watching everything, anyway). Dumbledore had asked Theseus (in front of Newt) to trust him - even if instinct would tell not to - so everybody took their mission to the letter, without questioning (or knowing what the others were doing). Bunty was the card of the muggle game Jacob told Albus about. And since Grindy (and Voldy) "does not seem to understand the nature of things he considers simple" just took Bunty for granted and was baffled by a game of muggle suitcases.
This is what I was thinking too while watching the movie. While Newt wouldn’t want to admit that Bunty can take almost as excellent care of the creatures as him, it’s true. Also using muggle made cases harkens back to the first switch of Newt’s suitcase in the first movie. I also wonder if using the duplication charm would leave a magical “fingerprint” so to speak on the copy that Grindalwald & co. would have been able to detect and thus knowing that it was a fake. If that was the case (hah accidental pun), then they wouldn’t be able to tell with the muggle made cases.
@@FifthAveAtFive Many thanks for agreeing with me!!! I also thought that Bunty should be a Squib as she almost never uses a wand (I guess only the promotional poster shows her holding one), but I was told she actually has one. The wonderful thing is that the Muggle game of cards really worked and Jacob deserves all the wands in the world, for making sure no one dies playing it!
24:30, she said to Jacob "even I don't know how it's done" when he's staring at her book after it performed some magic. I got the impression Dumbledore enchanted that book for her. 26:10, coming from a childhood where my older brother-- the jock cop type-- was pretty mean to me, our restored relationship in adult life teems with awkward "and this is my idiot brother" type rivalry. That's how I felt Newt and Theseus' relationship matured from a possible animosity-driven childhood
My understanding was that the election was for Supreme Mugwump- a position that Dumbledore later held, but was stripped from him in OOTP. I also think that the Qilin would have bowed to Neville.
I don't believe Dumbledore "spit" at Credence's reflection. There was a snow flake falling that he blew towards the window. Maybe I am mistaken but it seemed clear.
A few thoughts The blood pack - to me it was clear it broke because Grindewald attacked the Dumbledore BLOOD line. Since Credence was in fact a Dumbledore he must have had some protection from the bloodpact. So when Grindewald attacked that affected the charm. Bunty being Tina - the reveal would have only worked of there was a moment where we see them switch. If it was revealed that Bunty was Tina it would open the question - How long were they swapped?? If it was for weeks on end it would have been very cruel towards Newt. He is obviously in pain missing Tina. So if she was there the whole time it would have meant that she and Dumbledore actively hurt him for the sake of the plan (or for the greater good in their case) And Jacobs wand - it is clearly just a stick. The moment in the German ministry of magic when he confronts Grindewald there was a blink and you miss it moment where Lally did a charm which seemed to cause the storm. So it was all a very big diversion
But then Tina could have obviously explained it all to Newt later. I'm sorry, but I just think they really should have just done that. It would have been a nice reveal for the audience. Tina could have just said something like "I'm sorry; Dumbledore made me promise not to." And Newt being Newt would have accepted it. Plus, I think the guys were right Newt doesn't entrust his case to, anyone but Tina--and maybe to Jacob, too. I just think it's a missed opportunity . . .
I have to disagree about the dumbledore blood protecting Credence from the blood pact, if you remember, Grindewald slapped Credence in the first film. And he held ulterior motives again Credence, which we see in the beginning of this movie that if dumbeldore even thought of directly going against grindewald, the blood pact would harm him. Grindewald was directly wanting to use and harm credence and came at him physically repeatedly thoughout the movies to intimidate and make him submit, a throw back to the woman who raised him and hurt him from the first film. That being said, idk if you actually saw the movie, but Dumbledore says the reason it broke is because Grindewald sought to kill, and Dumbeldore sought to protect, and i think much like how every time Harry went against Voldemort and harry used a disabling spell while voldy shot a killing spell, and harry was able to push back, i think this has less to do with the intentions on the wizards, and more so the intentions of the wands. Like how Harry and voldy's wands were twins and didnt want to destroy each other, regardless what the wizards wanted, the wands themselves chose to support the one that wont kill the owner of the twin wand. I believe its likely Dumbledore and Grindewald had twin cores, even though they havent spoken on the wands yet. Their small battle is the ONLY time outside of voldy and harry that we see spells connect the way they did, and it would also make sense why dumbledore knew EXACTLY what harry was talking about when he said the wands connected. I believe its likely they found out as teens what happened when they fought each other, which likely is what pushed them to make a blood pact, as well as their shared goals at the time.
@@apollomommy7364 grindelwald’s wand at this point is the elder wand, so I’m not sure their cores can twin. I think their connection is primarily the blood pact and inherent love
@@SophieHarrison69 i do not think time matters for the core of the wands to be related. Death itself didnt actually give these 3 things, they were made by the peverells a long time ago. We also do not know if dumbldore's wand was passed down to him through the family or not. Any other reasoning means dumbledores wand would have been destroyed by the blast from grindewalds, which is far from the case
The qilin bowing to Dumbledore felt right. Coz at the beginning Grindelwald says that a birth of the qilin will mark the rise of a great leader. So the qilin not only sees into the purity of one's heart and intentions but also their leadership abilities. Newt being the only one who was able to find, rescue and interact on an emotional level with it is indicative of his pure heart. Same goes for Jacob at the Hog's Head. The baby qilin immediately takes a liking to him, starts playing and interacting with him again bcoz of his pure heart. We even see the qilin interact with Bunty and Theseus when he's holding it. We see that the qilin is so avertive and uncomfortable with Grindelwald when he's holding it and won't even look at him bcoz of his bad intentions. We all know that Dumbeldore can be pretty manipulative but he never once used people as pawns to service his own selfish needs but to serve his own version of the greater good. We see him struggle with self doubt and guilt throughout the film even though he's sending this team on a mission to save the wizarding World. His intentions are indeed pure but he is also a remarkable leader. And that's what causes the qilin to bow to him. We also know from the HP series that he does become Supreme Mugwamp of the ICW post his defeat of Grindelwald. While Newt still is the leader of the gang in this instance he still isn't as good a leader as Dumbledore and he would never accept such a position either. The same goes with Jacob. So the qilin bowing to Dumbledore does indeed make sense and is the right choice.
Oh yeah! I think i had this thought too while watching the movie but i forgot because so much was happening. I totally agree, thanks for writing it all out! It makes a lot of sense.
What are you talking about? Dumbledore used Harry, snape, mundungus fletcher, Lockhart to make a few easily as pawns to further his goal. Whether his goals were good or not he def used people to move towards the end of Voldemort or to teach Harry. I know all of this hasn’t happened yet but dumbledore wanted to dominate the muggles for the greater good. That enough seems worse than all the rest combined
@@applepatronum4934 I think it's easy to say no selfish reason to anything then. As long as something benefits you ( doesn't matter if it also benefits others) it could be construed as selfish. IMO Control of muggles for 'the greater good' is pretty selfish. I think muggles would agree.lol
@@a.r11384 well okay. Then there's the argument that no action is selfless. If you're feeling better from doing something good for someone, then you're really doing it for your own enjoyment. If Dumbledore wants to live in a better world, where Voldemort doesn't kill everyone who doesn't obey him, then yeah, Dumbledore is selfish. He doesn't just want a better world for other people but for himself too (although he kinda sacrifices himself for it..)
I think the spitting through the window and landing on credence’s face is the spell that created the illusion that makes him believe they’re still on the city street they’re fighting on. The droplet hits credence in his third eye (center of the forehead) which would make sense if you’re building an illusion and essentially blocking the persons ability to see things how they truly are. Which would explain dumbledore saying “things aren’t always how they appear.” Maybe I’m breaking my arm with all that reach but that’s what I got from it. Just really advance non-verbal wandless magic.
Plus I think it can noted why the suitcases where made “the muggle way” is to be as unconventional as possible. As Dumbledore say, “The fact things don’t go precisely to plan was precisely the plan.” It would be too easy to just duplicate the cases. It’s to be expected, and the point is to be unpredictable. Oh and Dumbledore does become head of the international federation of wizards “king of wizard” himself. It happens between his defeat of Grindelwald and the Harry Potter series. It is called the Supreme Mugwamp. This is the same position indicated in this film.
I also have a question about how duplucating the case magically would have worked. They just needed the exterior duplicated, so wouldn't using that spell also duplicate the interior? What about the animals it? I'm assuming they couldn't be duplicated, but certainly the habitats they are in could be. They could have had the suitable maker just make one though, and duplicated that. She also asked for half a dozen, with the original, there should have been 7 cases, not 5.
Why wasn't that specified in the film though? It wasn't even alluded to. It was simply "the one who will lead us". Why didn't anyone say it was an election of the Supreme Mugwump?
@@benparsons4979 I think the reason they didn't use that exact terminology is because Fantastic Beasts tries to be serious, and "Supreme Mugwamp" is a very silly early harry Potter-esqe name.
@@benparsons4979 Perhaps it wasn’t called that back then. Maybe it’s a name Dumbledore gave it after being election to the position. Rowling also probably figured true Potter fan could figure it out since it is mentioned in the books a few times.
The election was for The Supreme Mugwump and the German minister was the current holder of that position Edit: 18:22 Dumbledore actually does wind up becoming The Supreme Mugwump later on and is removed when Voldemort comes backs and no one believes him
Yep. When I heard that I got quite excited because I love learning more about the history and lore of the Potterverse. Anything from the past is a bonus for me, and this was personally a big bonus. Also love seeing more ministries of magic around the world.
So I think that Grindelwald is going to kill the new Supreme Mungwump Vicência Santos at some point, starting the wizarding war, and the wizard community is going to ask Dumbledore to take her place since the Qilin Bowed before him too.
My theory on the Aberforth child thing: Aberforth may not have known about the baby in the beginning. The mother's family sent said baby to America (possibly believing that having the baby near the Dumbledore family after everything that has recently happened would be far too dangerous, and thinking he would be safer in another country). However Aberforth was told after the ship sunk that the baby died on the boat (as per the flashbacks in second movie where Leta switched the babies and accidentally got her brother killed). As such, everyone thought baby Dumbledore was dead and it was all swept under the rug for many years. This is until Credence, while with Grindelwald, tries to figure out how he is a Dumbledore/gets told he is Aberforth's child, and manages to figure out this way of communicating with his dad. He's still driven by anger for much of it, and once Aberforth figures out who he is/gets told outright by Albus that he tries to figure out how to step up and be a dad after decades of believing his son was dead.
I whole heartedly agree. Who would want to have their baby be raised in a family that is willing to throw deadly spells at each other? It is cannon that no one knows which of the 3 killed Ariana so both brothers were slinging the killing curse willy nilly
Well and part of it is the time period a daughter who had a child put of wedlock " as a muggle" would have been sent away and hidden. I honestly don't think Aberforth knew at least at first
So the Lestrange secret baby, and the Dumbledore secret baby, just happened to be on the same *muggle* boat to America? What percentage of the world is a wizard/witch? What are the odds of two plot relevant magical wizard babies (wearing the same blue pajamas), BOTH being sent to America to live in muggle orphanages?
@@danielleberam8748Besides recurring first-hand knowledge of your destination and the surrounding geography, Apparating becomes increasingly difficult the further you travel, and inter-continental apparition is outright deadly - even Voldemort had to fly part of the way after killing Grindelwald before he was close enough to England to apparate there safely, so travelling that way was out of the question, especially with a baby. If Portkeys was an option, they would have used that. Perhaps there is something about Portkeys that makes it inadvisable to use them to move toddlers around? They could have flown, probably, but how do you suppose she would have carried the baby on broomback? In a basket hanging off the broom? What if she flew too low and encountered an unexpectedly high tree-top? And have the infant endure the elements? You would have to cross the North Sea, among other things, to get from Britain to USA. Dangerous, right? I think that the ship sinking notwithstanding, travelling the Muggle way would seem safer than most other alternatives, whether you are Leta's mother or Aurelius' aunt. Especially for the aunt, if she is a Muggle too. As for having the same pyjamas - on the off-chance that Aurelius' aunt was a witch, how big do you think Diagon Alley is? There wouldn't be a wide variety of shops to buy baby clothes from in wizarding Britain. Some overlap would be a given.
I understood this whole election scene as that Grindlewald and his followers needed the German ministries support for Grindlewald`s candidature as head of the international wizarding federation becoming possible. This is a very clever decision for the plot as it mixes reality with fiction. The film is set in the 1930s, when in Germany the Nazis were on the rise. Vogel clearly holds the Nazis` opinion, which closely resembles with Grindlewald`s ideology.
The Qilin kneeling for Jacob would have been amazing (my wife and I were both thinking it will kneel in front of Newt or Jacob), but it would have completely destroyed everything Grindelwald stands for or possibly just fueled his fire even more. Qilin not dying with one avada kedavra, I believe, fits a similar pattern to when it took multiple stunning spells on Hagrid (giant blood). Possible that certain animals are more resilient or have a certain blood that serves as protection to some extent. It is also mentioned that dragon hide is resistant to magic, this could be the same as well. Thesius and Newt are at odds with one another because one is a nerd and one is a jock. They essentially just don't speak the same language. One was possibly very popular at school and the other not.
That's the point!! It would have been SUCH a strong massage, especially after Grindelwald just tried to kill him because he is a "filthy muggle" and declared war on all muggles because they are meant to be inferior to wizards. If the Qilin bowed to Jacob, it would completely destroyed his argument RIGHT ON THE WORLD STAGE with everyone watching. That would have been a perfect moment for everyone to suddenly give up on wanting Grindelwald and vote for one of the other candidates.
I think the reason the Qilin didn't die is the same reason harry didn't die and that is love she still had to deliver the twin Qilin and her purity and love for her unborn Qilin had to be born before she died.
Some of my personal interpretations, and explanations that I found: 1) The case probably couldn’t been multiplied magically because of the entire world with the creatures inside it. You probably can’t multiply living things. 2) People didn’t apparate on top of the stairs because you don’t always apparate specifically on the spot you need to be, there are special entrances for the magical places like Diagonal Alley or many Ministries, or Hogwarts. 3) The vote did take place after the Qilin bow, people voted with the sparks but it was influenced by the Qilin choice. 4) How could a Muggle be in Hogwarts, well maybe it works like a Fidelius Charm, and once the muggle knows about the castle, he can see it and be in it. 5) The tie was a portkey and was probably set to activate in a moment of danger or escape, some people say even specifically when the brothers held hands. 6) The book Lally had was also a portkey which transported her and Jacob to the safe place or a fireplace. 7) That wasn’t a spit but a snowflake/raindrop and we don’t have to know how specifically this magic worked, but it’s clear it transported the fight to the mirror dimension to avoid any real damage. 8) The blood pact broke because, like Dumbledore said, he wanted to protect and Grindelwald wanted to kill, these goals are opposite but at the same time they weren’t fighting each other directly. This explanation is as good as any, it does make sense and we don’t have to know more details to accept it. 9) The ending duel took place in some other dimension related to the blood pact and no one could see it except them. The blood pact was falling the whole time and this is how it’s magic works. 10) The duels with a lot of apparition done were actually quite canon because if you reread the duel at the end of HP5, there was a lot of disapparating from the harms way, it’s pretty common move. 11) It’s very logical for Newt to trust Bunty with his case because she’s been caring for his creatures for 8 years like she said and she earned his trust. 12) The election was for the Supreme Mugwump of the International Confederation of Wizards. This position was mentioned in HP but I think they should’ve mentioned it in the movie too. 13) Why the Qilin didn’t die instantly. The unforgivable curses don’t work easily, you have to really mean it. Moody says it in HP4 and Bellatrix in HP5. Also magical creatures probably have some magical protection, like dragons. 15) Non-verbal spells are pretty common for adults even in HP books. While Harry and co learn stuff, heroes of these movies are all adults, it does make sense for them not to say them out loud. 16) The actress who played Nagini wasn’t available at the time of the filming. 17) Same with Katherine Waterstone who plays Tina. From what I heard, it was something to do with the covid-19 restrictions. 18) They wrapped up a lot of storylines quickly because it’s clear they weren’t sure if there will be more movies. Things could be done in a more exciting way but the other factors forced them to wrap up storylines just in case. 19) Some people say that in this movie the characters achieve nothing and they still have to fight Grindelwald. But the plot of this movie is, they have a clear goal, to stop him from gaining power and winning the election and they succeed. Also the blood pact is now broken. The Credence’s storyline resolved. The Queenie and Jacob are reunited. This is the progress this movie makes. It’s another chapter of the story. These are just some of my personal interpretations and explanations that I agree with. I feel like this movie made a lot of sense.
No. 4 kept me up all night... Fidelius can be an explanation, but for me it means that Jacob might be a squib... as we know Filch definetly can be in the castle.
This right here! Can't believe how long it took for me to find this comment! I'm certain not mad they didn't understand what was happening because I *just* got home from watching it, but it does feel like a lot of things were ignored. Also, to expand on the point about Bunty, we even know Newt trusts her with the creatures he cares for because we see in Crimes that he trusts her with the one that he doesn't carry with him (we can presume that this can happen for extended periods of time as well because he seems to be gone a lot). Idk, personally, this was a movie I enjoyed a lot. Not as much as the first movie, perhaps, but I certainly think it's not as confusing as they seem to believe. I do appreciate how well you explained your points by the way! Helped clear up some things I was wondering about too!
I'll only nitpick on number 1. We see Hermione duplicate the locket in DH, and technically that contained a living thing. I think duplication just copies the object, none of its magical properties.
There's precedent showing that super powerful magical creatures can resist some spells effects, even the killing curse. The spells are made for Wizards, not beasts. We see that beasts like dragons and giants have magical properties that protect them from spells, so I think it's safe to assume that's what protected the qilin. It was hit with 2 consecutive curses so it probably couldn't protect itself that much, but in my mind this explanation makes sense and was somewhat implied from the main series.
Yes, the pufferfish tiger from the first movie is stated to be almost impossible to knock out with desmaius at least thats what the book says. Of course avada kedravra is much more powerful but im pretty sure they still take more than 1 spell to get killed
I think using the Muggle leatherworker was a diversion tactic; Grindelwald would expect an enchantment used to conceal something from him , but a Muggle using Muggle technology to duplicate a seemingly nondescript item? Not so much.
And maybe he couldn't see them the way he does with the magical folk. I totally agree this was purposeful. And I don't think they could just duplicate Newts case, it has a whole ecosystem in it!
I also feel it has to do with something Dumbledore said during the Harry Potter movies (I believe it was in half blood prince) that “magic leaves traces”. So if they had duplicated the case, it would maybe leave a magical trace on its exterior and thus, be differentiable.
It was Avada Kedavra they used against the Qilin. Spells dont have the same effect on Beasts as they have on humans. Just look at how Hagrid - a half giant - could withstand multiple Stupify spells for example.
I honestly left the cinema with a much better feeling than for the last two movies. I loved some of the small moments, where the movie payed homage to the original HP movies, as an example when Aberforth said "always" to Credence, I got chills! (HOW COULD YOU NOT TOUCH ON THIS!?!?) Honestly, even tho I understand and totally agree with your points on stuff just not being explained, I loved the movie.
I think that’s actually the biggest problem. These movies are just banking on the Harry Potter legacy at this point, and using little moments like the ones you loved to draw old fans in for the nostalgia. Look past that and what you’re left with is a hot mess of a plot that makes no sense whatsoever. (No judgement though, you like what you like and more power to you. This is just my take on it.)
That part felt so corny and unearned to me. I wouldn't dare connect it in my mind to Snape's last scene because it feels so disingenuous and would cheapen a poignant moment from the original HP movies.
My assumption for Dumbledore saying “we didn’t know” to Credence was that both he and Abeforth didn’t know where the mother had taken the child when she ran away. I was pretty sure it was mentioned that one day the mother just left with the child.
I think that she was hidden by her family because of the shame associated with pregnancy out of wedlock and the family sent the child away, not the mother or the Dumbledores'
I agree. Also remember Albus made Aberforth return to school because he was still underage, so the mother was probably just as young...her family in that time definitely would have tried their best to hide it. In the movie someone said there were rumors, so I don't think Albus paid attention to the rumors at all and aberforth probably always remembered the rumors but never could confirm their validity
I assumed the Mother had left whilst pregnant - possibly before Aberforth found out she was pregnant, agree her family likely sent her "to visit family abroad" for a year. The Mother possibly died on that boat - though maybe not as the lady holding the baby in that scene doesn't look like a teenager
Just saw the movie. My thought on Aberforth not dealing with his son: he was young (probably shy of being of age) as was she probably. Albus tells Newt that "they sent her away." Her parents probably sent her away to get her away from Aberforth, then found out she was pregnant. She had the child and was sent to America with the baby. Aberforth was probably not aware he had a son until he was told of the presumed drowning. He said he thought about his son...he mourned the child he thought he had lost.
Pretty sure they sent her away because she was a young, unwed mother in 1899 when such a thing was incredibly shameful and frowned upon. It was not uncommon for pregnant young women to be sent away. It why I kind of think Credence's aunt is actually his mother. Her claiming to be his aunt would have protected them both in a way.
Okay, I agree that might have been what happened. Soooo at which point did he find out his son was alive? And started exchanging mirror messages with him? Because it certainly wasn't a year ago when Credence had no idea he was related to Dumbledores until Grindelwald to him
I am amazed at how atrocious the writing has been on this series. The HP books were great. The first two movies were great. All went downhill after that imo. But since Rowling is supposed to be the writer on these movies...... I just don't get it. How did she come up with such an incredibly detailed story like HP, and then this poor fanfic after? Maybe she's actually Lockhart. Lol.
Writing a book and writing a screenplay are very different and are different talents; being good at one does not mean you are good at the other. In a book you can TELL the audience things via character thoughts and introspection. In a film, it has to be shown, as you can’t do that. Lots of authors fumble with that when trying to write a screenplay. Also The Crimes Of Grindelwald was pretty bad. JK couldn’t figure out how to show things at an acceptable pace half the time so it resulted in exposition dumps that were just awful. It was the film that disrupted faith in the series as a whole. Also, it’s pretty bad practice to undo resolutions from a previous film. Everyone’s stories were wrapped up nicely at the end of Fantastic Beasts. This put FB2 at an automatic disadvantage because then JK had to come up with ridiculous reasons for why the characters are continuing in the story as they are. It seems pretty obvious to me that Fantastic Beast was conceptualized as a stand-alone to see how audiences received it, and then it was extended into a full blown series. Many don’t remember but sequels for FB were not announced until several months AFTER it had released (Warner Bros saw they could milk it due to audience reception) and originally it was announced as a trilogy. They then extended it to 5 films because money.
Rowling had had more than 20 YEARS thinking up the story and the world befor actually writing the Harry Potter books. Although she made it seem like she thought of it all during just one train ride one day, in a few documentories people who were children she grew up with AND she herself stated that she had thought out much of the Harry Potter stories in that time already, as she and those children play-acted them out back then. It all went wrong AFTER the HP books. Like Miss Autumn says: the first two movies were great, the rest were too different from the books and looks of the first two. I will forever HATE the person who desided it to be a cool idea to make the whole WORLD (and movies) turn ever more dark and black and white, just because Voldemort became stronger again.
The "spit" thing was actually a snowflake ❄️ that Dumbledore blew towards the glass and transported them to the mirror world or something. I also believe that while they were inside the mirror world, they were still physically present in the real world. Maybe you can say that it all happened inside their heads? And the way to get them back to reality is with the use of the deluminator just like how it helped Ron find Harry and Hermione in HP. EDIT: @Flynn The Redhead I re-watched that scene over and over again and I'm pretty sure it ain't a rain drop. 1. It was snowing in that scene. 2. The "thing" didn't go down in a straight line like raindrops do. It went somewhat in a circular motion in some inches away from Albus then went near his lips then he blew. 3. If it was raining back then, I think people would've been drenched already or maybe go run and find cover but nobody seemed to bother that much. 4. The "thing" looked like a tiny ice form covered in something like a blob (maybe water - form) after it's entered the mirror.. then hitting Credence on the forehead. Sorry, English isn't my 1st language but I hope they make sense. ∆ BUT, I totally agree with people saying "poor story telling" and this film is definitely lacking on so many levels. Could've been better. It felt rushed.
Thank you for this comment. Dumbledore would. never. spit. on someone. I was yelling at me screen during this part of their rant hahaha. Dumbledore pressed the deluminator to get them in and out of this mirror-verse. It’s not that far of a stretch from what J & B already theorized about the deluminator being a “portal” as Dumbledore used the reflection of the shop window to “enter” the mirrorverse, but it feels like they want to hate this a lot and aren’t acknowledging the connections.
I might have got this entirely wrong, didn't Aberforth also cast a spell at the end of the film? And it was both the Dumbledores protecting Credence (like they tried with Arianna) while Grindelwald sought to kill. I assume it was similar to the love magic Lily used, which is why Dumbledore recognises it and can explain it to Harry in King's Cross.
You're right, Aberforth did cast the spell at the same time as Albus and it did remind me of their three way duel to protect their family member. Loved that reference there ❤️
It isn't the love speed Lily used, her spell required her to sacrifice her life and grant a very long term protection. The spells Albus and Alberfort used was a counterspell for a short moment.
It would have been a great scene if when Albus cast that spell, the blood pact started suffocating him, unable to defend Credence, and then Aberforth came into the rescue
@@bowenwesley1 basically by making an error. Basically by making the two wizard spell hit each other, without intending to fight one another, the spell broke due to terminal error that I can't really comprehend. Would be more satisfying was if the spell broke at that time was solely because during that moment, Dumbledore just stopped loving Grindelwald and the pact only could be active if both participant still loved each other.
I love the movie, I think it had more structure and better pace than the last one. The actors were brilliant, I feel like people don't mention Yusuf Kama enough, the actor has the best poker face in the world, I wasn't able to tell his intentions until the very end. When it comes to some plot holes I agree it was not explained but I just assumed a lot of things, not sure if a lot of people agrees but: 1)Qilin was not killed instantly by avada kedavra because its a powerful magical creature so it takes a while 2) Dumbledore did not SPIT at Creedence, it was a raindrop or a snowflake 🤔 3) the scene in the restaurant and on the street with Dumbledore and Creedence/Grindelwald was some form legilimency. Creedence collapsed on the street and then the rest happened in his head. 4) I agree the expectations were too high when it comes to the suitcase maker but I understand it - Newt was super anxious during that customs scene in the first movie and we have seen the animals trying to get out so I think it's reasonable Bundy didn't want to give it to him. I think they wanted handmade suitcases to make sure there was no counterspell to disappear them. 5) I think the mirror was created at that time and it never existed before. Specifically made by Abelforth and Creedence to communicate with each other and then later used by Harry. One issue - Grindelwald's qilin was clearly dead, it literally looked like a zombie. I'm surprised none of the people present stopped and said "is your pet OK?"
The way I thought of it was that Qilins are so rare maybe people didn't see it because they've never seen a Qilin before. Like, the 2 compared to each other makes it more clear, but if you see just the one... looks like what you know so it'll be what you know. If that makes sense?
The big issue with the FB movies compared to the HP movies is the lack of proper world building. JKR took so long to think through all of the little details of how magic works and how things interact within the wizard of world when she wrote the HP books. But with these movies they aren’t taking that extra step to really establish and explain the rules for stuff, so we as the audience continue to be kinda confused about how things work in this wizard of world.
Dumbledore said that Aberforth's lover disappeared and there were only rumors of a child. To me that implied that they didn't know for sure that Credence existed and Aberforth wasn't a part of sending him away. Maybe his mother even took him to America herself, but died on the ship.
She may have died when the ship went down (a woman is seen diving after Corvus in COG) but Credence was probably just sent away since this was a teenage pregnancy in the 1800s.
I think the girl's parents might have sent her away as she was unmarried and was going to have a baby which would bring a lot of shame to the family name and they sent her away just to get rid of her (and that was really common back in the 19th century). And aberforth then thought that the girl he loved and his child had both drowned (Although credence was actually travelling with his aunt which means that something happened (she died) to credence's mother while she gave birth to him. His mother i.e. aberforth's girlfriend actually died giving birth to his child which he wasn't aware of). But when credence was told that he's albus dumbledore's brother he just tried reaching out to them via that mirror thingy and dictated the story he's been told about being a dumbledore by none other than Grindelwald.
I think it's possible that the election was for Supreme Mugwump of the International Confederation of Wizards (which I take to be wizarding UN), a position which Dumbledore did hold later in his life, along with being Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot. I definitely liked this movie better than Crimes of Grindlewald
It was! Vogel and that lady that was elected at the end are Supreme Mugwumps. It would explain why Dumbledore took over for the lady...the Qilin had already chosen him.
The chemistry & emotion I felt between the 3 pairs: Newt & Tina, Jacob & Queenie, Dumbledore & Grindelwald are one of the few reasons I didn't exactly dislike the movie...they are what kept me engaged despite such incohesive plotline...
I would have loved an explanation for all of the magic Dumbledore was performing, but I think the point they were trying to make was that, as was said about him previously, that he did things with a wand that people have never seen. So we don’t get an explanation, because no one except Dumbledore know’s how it works, adding to the mysticism of him and how far above in talent he is from almost everyone else.
This right here. This is exactly what I think. He's the most powerful wizard....of all time next to Merlin. I love J and Ben but I think they are thinking too much and obsessiing over the details or lack thereof and it was slightly annoying
i agree, and i think an explanation of what it was or how it works would have been awkward to force into the movie. maybe they could have had a scene that foreshadowed it, but the movie was already long and i think that works better in the books, especially in harry potter where the explanation of spells feels natural, because its kids in school and harry is learning about the magical world along with the reader/viewer. no one was there to view what dumbledore was doing, he would have had to be like, hey guys guess what i just did, it is this thing i learned from dr. strange and lets go to the room of requirement so i can teach you how to do it for no reason.
@@tjtennisicmroll2k THIS. Even in the books and the movies some things didn’t get explained. A lot of what we know is either from these videos, suspicions, or deep dives on pottermore. I think it’s okay for things to be unexplained!
Dumbledores deluminator allows him to eavesdrop on his hearts desire, which is Grindelweld. (We know this because of what happened to Ron later on) Perhaps Albus could communicate with him as well?
The deluminator only works that way if the light it's currently holding is a light that another witch or wizard created with magic. Hermione made the fire with her wand and it was taken in by the deluminator. This is why Ron was able to hear her it's not about your heart's desire. Dumbledore just held onto Grindelwald's light until he no longer needed it.
I knew you guys will likely be disappointed. It’s understandable, what you said about the rules. But for me the movie was not about explanations, but about the emotion, heart, the characters. Jude Law’s acting is amazing. I’m so happy that Dumbledore finally gets a canon representation in the movies which is true to the books, where the depth of his character is shown, with his humour, brilliance and a good heart. I loved the moment when the Qilin bowed to him. And the ending duel was so beautifully done, with the dynamic, music and all the emotions. It was heartbreaking. For me it is now one of the best moments in all HP movies. And the moment when the three spells meet? Like their duel from the past, same three characters? It was great and kinda poetic. I was also very moved by the Credence’s story, just how tragic it is. This loneliness, when you feel it in real life, you do understand it and connect with it. And he finally found home. Also, there were quite a few lighthearted and touching moments between characters. I loved Dumbledore and Jacob interactions. Little everyday magical things here and there. The buildup in the final act of the movie. The creatures were wonderful. The music was really great. Beautiful performances by all the actors, old and new. I liked how the Qilin plot finally made sense at the end and it was a surprise that felt satisfying to me. But most of all, I really connected with the emotions of the characters and I just really felt it.
Nicely put. I couldn't put into words but this is the part I enjoyed about the movie. Although we all secretly crave the magic (no pun intended) from HP which had the creativity, emotional journeys AND sound movie logic.
this is beautifully put, i didn’t know how to put it into words but you did it. the magic of the harry potter universe comes the heart and the emotions between characters, the rules are not perfect but the rules are not what makes people coming back for more. it’s the journey and the emotions you get from the series
Amen to absolutely everything you said!! This movie is not for thinking but rather for feeling, and it is full to bursting with emotional moments like when Jacob - the ultimate muggle - confronts Grindelwald - the most powerful dark wizzard until then - on behalf of Queenie, or the Scamader brothers accidentally holding hands, the reunion of Creedence and Abaforth - not to mention Abe's stepping in to save his son from the killing curse- and, of couse, the showdown between Gellert and Albus, which literally made me tear up 😭 anyway, brilliant comment friend, thank you for bringing all of that up ❤
Absolutely loved this movie, and from my point of view it's great in conveying emotions and making us emphasize w/ the characters. I cried several times throughout it, since there are plenty of powerful scenes: Newt laying next to a dying Qilin mother and being in such pain since he failed to protect her. Aberforth telling Credence to come home in his last moments and also this 'always' parallel, absolutely heartbreaking. Finally, us seeing how lonely and isolated Albus really is. I think we as observers are quick to judge him for not being honest and open enough with those who are infinitely loyal to him, but this movie made me realize how much of a burden he's carrying throughout his life. Losing his lover, blaming himself for Ariana's death, not being good enough brother to Aberforth, etc. I think all of that is enough to make truly opening up to someone almost impossible. For me the last scene is us finally understanding how much he's missing on having this meaningful connections with people contrary to the main characters who are able to experience that. 9/10 for me!
I think it sounded like that Credence's mother's parents sent her away as soon as they found out she was pregnant and never allowed her to tell Aberforth, and he never knew until she was already gone and the ship sank
In regards to the suitcase, Bunty's mission was to always have the real case. All the cases we see in the Room Of Requirement are fake. That is why when Albus asks Newt if he can spot his own case and Newt says no, Albus says he is relieved and that he would be worried if Newt could. The real suitcase is not even there at all, so there is no way Newt could identify his case.
Here’s my issue, when Bunty asked for the extra cases, she asked for 6 extras. If you include the original, there should be 7 in total. Yet only six were around.
@@fournierman even if she did, that still leaves one missing. Jacob took one, newt took one, Lally took one, Theseus took one, bunty took another and had the original. Unless the last one was for Yusuf but something happened?
Agree with everything you said. Little rant: 1. Without the Qilin bowing to Jacob, why was he even there? Why did Dumbledore insist on him being there? 2. What was going on with Queenie - what was the point of her ever siding with Grindelwald if she's now back, just like that? How did her changing sides twice affect the overall plot? 3. Was very disappointed with the Credence reveal. The first two movies were basically about him being special, just like you said. The kid who survived the obscurus, and then boom, a DUMBLEDORE. Announced as the big final scene of Part 2. The Cliffhanger, wildly speculated about. I firmly believed in the theory that somehow Ariana's obscurus got transferred to him and that's how Grindelwald knew about him, that's how he survived it this long (it wasn't produced by his own body). Just to now be like yeah, he's Aberforth's son. I sat in the cinema like "... really? That's it?". He's set up and basically drilled to fight Dumbledore by Grindelwald, then they have a little street brawl and suddenly it's all over? Oh and also, he's dying now because his anger's gone. (And wasn't Nagini something like his love interest? How isn't she even mentioned?) 4. Also found it very telling you barely mentioned Yusuf, as in "His plot wasn't even relevant enough to make it into the review". Which it wasn't. It made even less sense than the whole Bunty suitcase shenanigans. 5. The blood pact breaking - I sat there thinking, well that's convenient now, isn't it. Like you said, why even include it in the first place? 6. The title. Did we actually learn any Secrets of Dumbledore that we didn't already know from HP? Other than Aberforth having a girlfriend as a teenager, that is. 7. I feel like Newt is kind of drowned out. I loved the first movie because he was given so much space - he's a brilliant protagonist because he's so unconventional and unobtrusive. His methods are quirky, unorthodox. He works because he is unique. Which means he is, in my opinion, not the best character to put in a group situation like the one he is in now. Or at least, not in such a large group. He currently doesn't get the screen time he needs to shine. To summarize, I felt like there was a lot of wasted potential. So many plot threads, so many intense set-ups from the previous movies just fizzled out into irrelevance. But not to end on too much of a bad note, I found the movie okay - in the way that I don't regret going to see it but wouldn't necessarily want to do so a second time. Liked to see some of the German wizarding world (being German myself), and also the Bhutan scene. Laughed out loud at the crab dance scene. Liked that Dumbledore's love for Grindelwald was made explicit. The concept of the Erkstag prison was genius. Eulalie was cool. The acting was brilliant from all of them. Am, despite my slight disappointment, excited to see where they are going with the next part. Thanks for the video, take care! (Edited for English reasons)
17:20 I think they actually did vote by casting the colored spell on the air (the one that they also used to celebrate each candidate), the role that I think the qilin had was that it influenced more people to vote for grindelwald as they thought his intentions were really pure at heart and they remembered their old tradition I might need to rewatch it though, but that's what I thought on my first watch
I think that both the scene where Dumbledore talks with Grindelwald and the one where he fights Credence were both done using Oclumency as we know Dumbledore is supposedly very gifted at it. In addition to this, I am (as always) a massive fan of Jacob but for a movie that ends with him getting married, it would have been nice for him to have some more moments with Queenie and an addition scene with Lally to enhance their friendship. I feel the same for Credence and Aberforth. While I thought the final Credence reveal was a good way to close a plothole, I think just one more scene with them just sitting and bonding either through the mirror or in person would have sold me more on it. Another way that both this scene and previous existing lore could have been enhanced was by clarifying that Aberforth confronted Albus and Grindelwald because he knew they planned to run away together and he felt bitter that he was forced to stay and care for Ariana instead of run away with Credences mother.
I loved it personally. Lally was just amazing! And i DIED at Newts dance and swivel, delicately. My friend and I have been laughing about it regularly since we saw it. There are definitely more questions we need answers to and some of it I'm a bit confused by but I really loved it! We also noted there were 6 suitcases made and only 5 were at Hogwarts... my theory is that Bunty was always going to have the original but obviously the others couldn't know. So when dumbledor told Jacob not to take one it was adding to the effect of nobody else knowing (but also he wanted Jacob to have the one with the pastries)
The first mirror message was “forgive me”. It was my impression that the first message was from Queenie to Credence. I feel that Credence learned to send the mirror messages from her.
I think the fight between Dumbledore and Creedence happened in Creedence's mind. It seemed to me that Creedence was laying donw in the same place where he was hit in the forehead by Dumbledore's spell. Dumbledore clearly can use legitimacy, so i'm sure that whole fight happend in Creedence's mind and Dumbledore just used the window to reflect the spell he casted so he wouldn't have to turn and face Creedence, thus initiating a fight that would've killed a lot of people (sneaky sneaky Dumbledore). I thought it interesting that all of a sudden no one was running away or around during the altercation all of a sudden. So I'm lead to think that because it was in Creedence's mind and he was solely focused on fighting Dumbledore, his brain didn't project people being around becasue it wasn't his focus. But if you ask, how and why were there people in the tram? They were there ether because Dumbledore put the thought into his head to maintain a since of realism, or Creedence thought and considered there being people on the tram and resolved to steel himself of killing bystanders or didn't care. Right at the start of the fight, it's subtle but you can see it, once the (i'm a call it) "thought bubble" made contact with Creedence's forehead: Creedence (in reality) fell ot the ground and Dumbledore rushed over to him while Creedence was experiencing the fight with Dumbledore in his head. Hope that makes sense. Forgot to mention: it is known that Voldermort could project images into peoples mind. It was one of his most cruelest ways of torturing his victoms. So this happening in Creedences mind is totally possible. With the suitcase: Bundy went to a muggle suitcase maker to confuse Grindlewald. As for the spell used when the cases were opened. It's the same spell that was used in Belatrix's vault when team Potter went there to get the Horcrux. Question: If an obscurist is created by the suppresion of magic within a witch or wizard......wouldn't it the obscurial be cured if the witch or wizard uses magic to release that pent up magical energy?
I also wonder if the reason bundy used a muggle for the suitcase is because you couldn't use geminio on newts with all the magical creatures and expansion etc on it?
I don't think the Qilin bows when you're pure of heart but when your intentions are pure. It bowed for Dumbledore because he did not want Grindlewald to cheat with the spelled Qilin and didn't want to take advantage of the situation and become minister himself, kinda like the stone in the mirror. Dumbledore is far too manipulative and has had issues for him to be "pure" as a entire character in my opinion. Maybe "intent" is a bigger part of magic than we thought, nonverbal spells are basically cast with intent. the mirror was spelled with intent, the room of requirement, patronus etc. it may also explain some of the weirder magic we've seen (putting the guy inside a stone wall without killing him etc) or they want to move away from the very one dimensional spells in the HP movies.
100% this. Would be nearly impossible to find a completely pure at heart person otherwise. Also like it as a character moment for Dumbledore, who earlier has nearly given up hope for himself.
I really like the idea of intent being really important as an explanation. For example, If someone says a spell wrong and it does not work, it’s not that they did it wrong but that they do not seem to care enough about the spell to get it right which causes it not to work.
What did you think of Secrets of Dumbledore?! Best Fantastic Beast Movie? Best HARRY POTTER MOVIE? or Meh?
Best FB movie and I'd say 6th best HP. No matter what you say, Half-Blood will always be at the bottom for me.
I loved the qilin, hopefully they return in later films!
I love it and anyone else is wrong
SUPERCARLIN see this EMMA WATSON WAS AT THE MINISTER TABLE IN THE ASSASSINATION SCENE
@@evieveenhof9552 Probably a lookalike. It's not listed on Wikipedia.
The Qilin bowing to Jacob would have been a great moment to show the wizarding world that muggles are worthy too. Missed opportunity.
I know. I was defintely expecting it to bow to Jacob on my first viewing, and even on my second, because they spent so much of the movie setting up how good of a person Jacob is.
I just got chills reading that. Would have been the ultimate slap to Grindelwald too.
I was honestly surprised when it didn’t happen. I was almost certain that would happen.
Exactly what I thought would have happened!
Do you think it might happen in later movies? Like Jacob is the first muggle - wizard relationship ambassador or something?
Did anyone else notice that Bunty asked for “half a dozen” duplicate suitcases and then when they were all getting ready to shell-game it up there were only 5? Half a dozen plus the original should have been 7. I was convinced there were two more being taken by others through a different route and that the five were only diversions. This movie set up so many plot twists and paid none of them off.
2 other case holders got sick on short notice so thats why they only needed 5 :P
@@6666Imperator I do recall hearing there was a terrible outbreak of magical nips that year. 😒
@@ShannonAHiner yeah must have been terrible!
Yes! It bugged me so badly! I was like .... shouldn't there be more than that?
Yeah! I missed that it would have been 7 with the original, so I was actually waiting for Tina to sweep in with the 6th one. Until the very end. Then I was just like. Oh they don’t know what half a dozen means. 😅
The whole plan revolved around confusing Grindelwalds visions, and yet we never see Grindie reacting to or even having that many visions.
nor do we get shot for shot scenes where the visions come true and we see him react to avoid them
The screen play is better
This would have made the movie so much better! I felt like the entire middle part of the movie was kind of meaningless. Atleast seeing that it "helps" to confused him would have made it make sense. But it honestly felt like the writers found that too difficult? It feels like watching a sherlock holmes movie without showing the deductive reasoning at work and the feeling of "ahhh that's how it happened".
"grindie" i like that. i'll take it, thanks
Another thing that left me puzzled. What was up with Yusuf Kama? Was his mission just ever so simple as to infiltrate the Grindelwalds top henchmen? That left me so dissatisfied with his role in the plot.
The movie would literally be EXACTLY the same, if Yusuf was completely cut out of the movie. Absolute waste.
Getting Queenie back probably. Dumbledore suspects that Queenie isn’t turned, because her motive is not bad. The moment Gellert had her read his mind, Yusuf could literally talked to her in his head and conspire against Grindelwald
I agree I was very confused about his role in the movie in general
I think of it like smoke and mirrors the point was to be pointless because using Queen or to monitor his thoughts and giving him a mission to prove himself is a distraction & waste of resources while everyone else got a lot done
I felt so bad for him, like, did he ever get the memory of his sister back? Wasn’t that a driving force on being on dumbldores side?
No one is discussing how amazing the casting and acting of Richard Coyle's version of Aberforth is? It was so freaking on point I legit believed they were the same person
You mean like the same person as the Aberforth in the HP movies? If so, I actually really agree. When I was in the cinema watching the film, I thought the same thing! They even look very similar, the two actors! That was so well done.
Also, Richard Coyle definitely did his homework (I mean, he most likely did? I hope he did?)! The way he brings Aberforth on screen; the way he stands, the posture, those kind of gestures are just like the Aberforth we saw in Deathly Hallows.
Same! The way he spoke was the exact same
Totally, he was perfect.
It wasnt the same actor?!
I really liked that, even after the blood pact was destroyed, Dumbledore and Grindelwald couldn't bring themselves to finish each other off. It really shows how deep their love for each other goes, and that the blood pact wasn't really the reason they couldn't kill each other. It was just a physical barrier; the emotional barrier that led to its creation in the first place is still present.
I don’t think grindewald loves Dumbledore. That end scene is their souls fighting inside the blood pact. Not them actually fighting. That’s why they’re in the like foggy place. It’s inside the blood pact
@@evskiicf3998 I'm not so sure, since Grindelwald having some remnants of love for Dumbledore also has the potential to make him a far more interesting and complex villain. Both sides believe fully in their conflicting ideologies, but neither can truly bring themselves to hate the other. In that way, sending Credence to assassinate Dumbledore was not only a way of circumventing the blood pact, but also his way of avoiding having to personally kill the one person he's ever truly loved.
@@eliasroos7185 Im with you. I think there is some love and thats what stopped them from fighting further at this time. Im of the mind that Grindlewald's love for Dumbledore will eventually fade enough that he will be willing to kill and thats what will lead up to the big battle in '45.
Finish each other off 😂😂😂😂😂
I agree completely about that. It's going to be interesting to me see just what pushes Dumbledore over the edge to finish the job.
My favorite part of the WHOLE movie was when Newt told Jacob that the candy he got from the Slytherin boys was cockroach cluster and how it flashed the scene to the boys who couldn't be older than like 2nd or 3rd year just cackling away. I mean it was just so....Slytherins being Slytherins that I loved it.
Yes! It was so good to see Slytherins just being kids! They weren’t being cruel, they were just pranking the clueless Muggle. It was the representation I needed!
Was one of the boys cackling away young Tom Riddle?
Caroline Tan Tom Riddle would be about 7 in 1932. He starts Hogwarts in ‘38.
@@octaviablackthorn9 these movies have proven they don’t care about how old people are supposed to be (Mcgonagle) so it could be
and Dumbledore being: 2 points to Hufflepuff when Newt said something right....
I think the bloodpact breaking was one of the few things that made perfect sense in this movie: when their spells met, it was not with the intention of fighting one another, but to kill/protect a third party. This would directly prove to the bloodpact that they had opposite intentions, without actually breaking the vow of the bloodpact
But still.. this would be a way to prevent Avada Kedavra?
Didn't Aberforth's spell also act with Albus's?
This also explains how the three way duel was possible cause they made the blood pact before
Yes
Small nitpick in the grand scheme of ludicrous nonsense but when Lally and Jacob go through the book portkey, they do verbally acknowledge it’s a portkey. However they enter the train through a fireplace with green flames. Which indicates the Floo Network. Portkeys and the Floo Network are two TOTALLY separate things. I’m pretty sure in the 5th HP book they specifically think to use a portkey because it can’t be traced by the Floo Network which is under surveillance. Like visuals MEAN things and there is zero consistency or regard for the canonical lore.
Actually, in the Deathly Hallows Part 1, the trio took the Floo Network from the Ministry and then apparated into that forest where Ron got splinched.
@@stephenking5852 Valid, but the Floo Network and Apparition are both still different from Portkeys. We don’t know if it’s possible to Apparate from a portkey. For the sake of argument let’s say it is. Changing your method of teleporting in the middle of the act is super dangerous (hence why Ron got splinched), like jumping from a moving car to a moving train, so unless it’s life or death I don’t see why they would change from Portkey to Floo in the middle of the teleport especially when you’re toting a muggle who would only weigh you down and make it harder. The fact that this movie is making us get into such needlessly complicated details is a sign of its poor storytelling.
personally i just assume they portkeyed somewhere unimportant and THEN floo networked on the train
@@Palladum12 the way he came out and said he loves portkeys immediately sorta says they literally just arrived from that instance with no stop tho 🤷♂️
So the only way is to portkey into a fireplace with the powder at the ready to announce the train as the going point.
Don't get why the portkey didn't take them to a train station as it has to be a wizard train like hogwarts. Otherwise why is a random muggle train fireplace in Germany connected to the floo network? Or is it a secret compartment for wizards that muggles can't see that stops them from using it and it can work as normal for wizards?
@@Palladum12 Which makes sense because a Portkey is set to a specific location, and I'd imagine a moving train is pretty hard to pin down. It's just a shame that they cut it the way they did because it certainly looks like they Portkeyed into the Floo network.
Gah, I need you two to write these movies so badly.
hear hear!
At least hire them to review the script and give feedback before it's finalized.
i love Super Carlion Brothers, but their theories are jsut too much for non Harry Potter fans. it will be very difficult to explain in movies, or if they would, the movie would be 5 hours long.
But that would only be fan-fiction. Y'know, like The cursed Child?
Either the author does it, or it's not part of the canon.
I knowwwww they are ABSOLUTE GENIUSES!!!!!
1:03:24 I took it to mean that Aberforth’s lover was “put away” by her parents when the relationship was discovered, and that he never knew she was pregnant until it was too late and the child had already been sent away, out of reach (who knows how long later, because what happened with Ariana upended his whole world). By the time he would have heard and could investigate, it would have led him to a sunken ship and all hope lost. How he came to communicate via mirror should have been explained.
My theory on Bunty’s mission is this. Because grindelwald can see the future they gave her a task that made her interact with muggles, that he doesn’t think much of or anything of, so he just disregarded her task entirely. Basically like voldemort doesn’t understand that which he doesn’t value. I feel like it is the same for her mission and grindelwald
I think Bunty's part in this story was what Newt observed back in Crimes where he said "Grindelwald doesn't seem to understand the nature of things he considers simple". While Newt considers Bunty to be an indispensable assistant and holds her in high regard, we don't actually see her use any magic that Grindelwald would consider being significant. It would then make sense that the missions of Lally/Jacob, Theseus/Newt, and Kama would be under heavy scrutiny by Grindelwald and his acolytes, thereby giving Bunty the invisibility she'll need to carry out her part of the mission. It might have been Dumbledore's plan all along to have the seemingly pointless parts of the missions to distract Grindelwald.
The hargrid to the 7 potters.....
I think Bunty was there because Tina was unable to be in the movie.
Exactly what I was thinking. It also goes along with the idea that anyone can be a hero, not just those who are chosen like harry or highly skilled like Newt.
I completely agree. Since the cases were made the muggle way rather than with magic, there was a higher possibility of Grindelwald not foreseeing the plan. Also having Newt think that he had the actually case worked in their favor as we saw the look of dispare when the case was destroyed (thus selling the plan that Grindelwald’s followers were able to dispose of the twin Qilin) and for Bunty to pull through with having the actual case
This; the POINT of this movie WAS TO BE POINTLESS. They even mention it in the train scene. most of their objectives are pointless, but meant to make Grindelwald think they had some master plan that was different than; walk right into his trap and uproot it from the inside.
As soon as Grindelwald went after the Qilin; SPECIFICALLY to CAPTURE it, Dumbledor likely figured out immediately what his plan was "Like every schoolboy would know, the story of our history with the Qilin goes as far back as we can remember" literally EVERYONE is expected to know the significance of the Qilin in the wizarding world.
I think the movies MAIN flaw is just not showing Grindelwald's side more showing him overthinking all of Albus' plans.
The curse not killing the mama qilin the first time could also mean that credence didn’t mean it. As moody says that you have to mean it
It was Vinda Rosier who shot the killing curse
@@mikaelaalyssa credence shot the first one that didn’t kill
@@averyallan7658 oh, my bad!
We have also seen plenty of green spell that is not avada kedavra.
@@kevin-by1dz exactly. And they didn't have a reason to kill it, so i'm fine with it. Green still may not have been the best design choice, but oh well.
I found the Credence plotline very poetic and sad. History repeated itself for the Dumbledore brothers, they had another Obscurus family member they tried to and couldn't save, they had another three-way 'duel' with Grindelwald with an obscurus as a (this time intentional) target... It would have been even more poetic if the pact would have been formed during the duel that killed Ariana and broken during the duel over Credence, but sadly the blood pact was made before that duel
Just dumping the questions in my head after watching the movie: where did Nagini go? How much time has passed since the last film so that Credence has long hair now? What happened when they all went to Hogwarts at the end of CoG? Why were Nicolas Flamel and the philosopher’s stone and that magical communication book introduced if they have no place in the plot of the series? What made Queenie join Grindelwald if she was going to easily change her mind in the next movie? HOW CAN JACOB SEE HOGWARTS? Why is Mcgonagall there? Why did Dumbledore give Jacob a wand? Or theseus a tie? Or Bundy a job? Why couldn’t Newt and Theseus apparate from the place theseus was imprisoned because they would be able to apparate without a wand if they are such skilled wizards? How could Grindelwald escape from the temple if Newt couldn’t even apparate a few steps forward when he was trying to get his case back? How were Grindelwald’s followers able to smoke/fly the way death eaters could do in the HP movies, is that just a common evil wizard thing now? Why did we never see any other teacher in Hogwarts besides Dumbledore and Mcgonagall, especially the Headmaster? Why did Grindelwald need a Qilin to see the future if he can already see the future? Why did they use the room of requirement if all they needed was a portkey? Why did Bunty ask for half a dozen suitcases to be made when they needed only four (4+Newt’s original=5) ?, why didn’t dumbledore attend Jacob and Queenie’s wedding? Who officiated their wedding? How can they broadcast the election live to the whole wizarding world when in GoF they couldn’t even show the audience what was happening in the maze during the triwizard tournement? What is the deal with the mirror dimension/ the deluminator and Dumbledore’s weird compass? Weren’t Dumbledore and Grindelwald supposed to not have spoken since Ariana’s death until their legendery duel? What happened to the snitch Dumbledore caught? What was the point of Yusuf’s mission? Wasn’t finding the deathly hallows Grindelwald’s whole deal? Why wasn’t he searching for them? Why was Grindelwald in a car when we know wizards don’t use them? What was that creature in the cave prison? How can MACUSA be okay with Graves sentencing Newt and Tina to death for breaking the statute of secrecy but letting Grindelwald go after he set fire to the whole city of Paris and almost destroyed it??????
He didn’t need the Quiln to see in the future. He killed it, so he could make it a dark Quiln, who would bow to the most dark heart.
As for timeline the second movie takes place in 1927 where as the third movie takes place in 1937
Since it’s been 10 Years since CoG that could explain why Nagini and Nicolas Flamel aren’t in the movie because it’s been 10 Years and hopefully it will explain where they’re at in later films. This could also explain why Queenie ultimately changed her mind because she has been trapped with Grindelwald for 10 years doing his bidding or whatever and missing Jacob and I thought Jacob shop has gotten to the point where it’s at now where he doesn’t have very many baked goods there’s no traffic there etc.
Easy answer to everything u just said. It was a trash movie with bad writing. Like they took that guy's memories of his sister and the story completely forgot about it like what?
@@iamdebaby8152 Subjective
I really enjoyed the inclusion of Lally, her character made the movie for me. She was such a badass when she was fighting
I loved seeing full blown magic like hers
@@queenb2450 her book magic is very unique but it made me sad that she is just replacing Tina
Btw where is nagini?
True. ☺️
yes she is cool🥳
She was super adorable!!
The election was actually for the title of Supreme Mugwump. A title that Dumbledore is known for holding. I think that's why the Qilin bowed to Dumbledore, forshaddowing how he would.
Thank you! I'm over here screaming at my phone "HE'S THE SUPREME MUGWUMP" and now my partner thinks I'm insane😂
@@Amandab993 Again poor story-telling. I swear if I would've heard the words "the international confederation of wizards" then I wouldn't have had so many questions the whole movie. They really made it feel like this was a wizard king/queen role that had power over all international ministry of magics and last time I remember reading the books, the confederation doesn't supersedes any one country's government
Thank you! I had no idea what the election was for. At first I thought it was for the German minister of magic but obviously not if the whole wizarding world is paying attention to the results. And why did the current Mugwamp want to help get Grindlewald “elected”? Let the people vote he says... then nobody has any say besides the qilin.
I understood just fine
@@kevintyson1947 They did say International Confederation of Wizards. I just watched the movie a while ago.
But I completely forgot what the head of that was called until I read this comment. 🤪
I thought for a bit when he declined that this must be the position he supposedly declined but... no, that was Minister of Magic so... anyway...
I say this with the utmost seriousness: they need to stop playing around and hire you guys as either writers or deep lore consultants for all remaining Harry Potter properties. Because every shred of Harry Potter content that has come from this channel makes more sense and is more entertaining than this entire Fantastic Beasts trilogy thus far.
Highly agree with this.
Well said!
Someone please start a pertition or send this video to the writers
People should tweet JK or the studio that they should.
This! I think this ALL the time. Why don’t they just hire them to make everything make sense
I always saw Bunty's mission on getting imitations of the case through a muggle leather goods store as a smarter move in a way that although the Geminio spell will automatically duplicate it, something Dumbledore mentioned in the Harry Potter series about magic leaving traces. Getting it done through actually getting it duplicated with an actual leather goods store makes it harder for all the other members of the team to recognize who actually has the case.
Exactly. It would have been easier for grindi to see that the spell will be used to hide sth. But going the muggle route made it harder for grindi to have a vision
Furthermore, the surprise for Newt and then subsequent "not that one" to Jacob allows for them all to believe that Newt has the case with the Qilin, but he doesn't. His certainty that he has the correct case makes it harder for the villains to find Bunty.
An interesting theory/side-note: Dumbledore's three-card monty with the suitcases turned out to be a magic trick (a bit of mentalism). He was able to influence every person to "choose" a specific random suitcase based on their placement and his interaction with Jacob (note that based on this interaction, Newt picks the case that he does). We see this result when the Lally's case has the books, Theseus's case had quidditch (he played while at Hogwarts), Jacob's case had pastries, and Newt's case simply vanished (not sure why on this point). This is just lick Dumbledore to use "Muggle Magic" to outsmart wizarding world enemies.
I presumed that Newt's case was destroyed by the follower of grindelwald who took it?
@@Mazsi1201 Yeah same
But as all magic in real life there is a secret that takes away The magic behind it. As I recall, they asked for "half-a-dozen" copies. That is 6 copies, or maybe 6 including The original? However, when they get to chose a briefcase, they only have 5. Either they made extra just in case someone decided to join in at The last min or Dumbledore didnt take any chances.
@@jacoblundquist395 Sounds like a multiple outs kind of magic trick. I wonder if Dumbledore studied "muggle magics" at some point to learn something that the Grindelwalds and Voldemorts would find so insulting, pointless, and pathetic as to always overlook and never learn. Maybe that's why he's always got an ace up his sleeve...
I love that someone else noticed this
When Bunty took the case I was like "wait no that's my emotional support suitcase! We need it!"
But the point of Bunty's first side quest was to get the audience used to get being off screen, so we're not "suspect" when she's got the Qilin, and also for Newt to be used to not being the vessel for the creatures. It was important for his confidence to be as high as possible to believe he could have had the Qilin.
Also that master manipulation tactic by Albus when he shook his head at a case that's not even the case made Newt jump to take it, which was a not correct case anyways. Classic Dumbledore.
There was actually a vote. I understood this whole ceremony as follows: the Qilin bows before the 'worthy' candidate. Then the attendees can rise their wands and shoot these fireworks in the colour of their choice. The Qilin basically offers a suggestion, but it's eventually in the attendees' hands to either follow the Quilin' suggestion (which they mostly do) or stick to their own opinion (in the case it differs from the Qilin's)
I think you’re right
That's how I understood it as well.
Second
The fireworks did TOTALLY seem like a specific mechanic to this election that seemed VERY deliberate even within the confines of the election itself, I agree.
Yes, there was a voting by acclamation, as the Vogel guy also said :) basically all in favour say yay, then all opposes say nay, and the chairperson Vogel say “I find we have elected/decided x”. And if it’s unclear you as a voter can ask for a count of votes but it was really quite onions here that the yay side was in majority (although there should’ve been a “those against say nay, now” preceding the decision being made😅
My biggest gripe is that in the original HP books, the author set up the ending from the very beginning. She planned the whole thing and knew where it was going the entire time. There were always moments in the later books where something that happened or was mentioned in an off-handed way would come back to drastically effect the plot. Things like Barty Crouch giving Sirius the news paper in askaban in book 3. Then in the next book its revealed that he was actually there to help break out his son or wherever. Those things were so clearly planned and calculated and they payed off. There's absolutely nothing like that in the fantastic beasts movies. The chillin was never eluded to in the earlier movies. It had no importance whatsoever until the last hour of the franchise. It should never have been the grand finale. Every beat and plot point in the series felt like an afterthought. Like the didn't explore any of their ideas to make the resolutions satisfying. the harry potter books felt like there was so much exploration full of twists and hints and thats why they were so fun. Like Harry Potter was a full safari ride, whereas Fantastic Beasts was a train trip on tracks taking u from A to B. Idk
I think the “place”, for want of a better term, where Dumbledore and Grindelwald are meeting at the beginning and fighting at the end is sort of like a “blood pact realm”. A place where they can meet and a semi-reality despite where they are physically located. If you watch during their fight scene at the end, the blood pact is breaking in slow motion as they battle. Whilst this is happening, the background also appears to be shattering like glass around them. So I think that one of the things that the blood pact allows them to do is to enter this realm together that they can access, but now that the pact is broken, they won’t be able to. That would explain why it takes so long for them to find Grindlewald later on.
I imagine this was a perk of the Blood Pact - that by creating it, they create a space to share their minds and hearts with each other.
I agree, otherwise they would have just done the unbreakable vow or something
This is cool, except the movie never tells us this. We infer it from information that could be irrelevant. A better movie would’ve at least gave us an idea that this object could transcend realms.
One of them using legilimens and the other one just letting it happen. The one who's being "read" can see the event unfold and interact accordingly. Like how Harry could see what Snape was seeing during lessons. So Albus is all "he's in my head. Tell him you love him and discuss breaking the pact." And then GG inserts his half of the conversation in the same way Voldemort made Harry "see" Sirius in the Dept of Mysteries. That was my interpretation and then they just use this format to have mental conversations from time to time.
I assumed at the end when Grindelwald fell off the cliff he was getting himself outside the barrier which kept wizards from apparating. He could have known where the barrier ended, and falling through it is perfectly allowed.
I think Elphias Doge foreshadowed very well the big "reveal" when he said to Harry at wedding : "...if you don't count Aberforth, and somehow, people never do seem to count Aberforth."
Yup…. everyone assumed Credence was Ariana’s son.
One of the big problems I notice from this trilogy regarding writing, is that it feels like it should've been a novel series first and then have some screenwriters adapt it. Rowling doesn't know how to write for movies (which is not bad, she is a novelist after all, not a screenwriter, both need different set of skills). IDK if anyone else thinks like this, but I strongly feel that the scripts for the three movies would've worked better in book format as they are, and then adapting it.
Honestly when the second movie of this series came out I thought two things, one that maybe they shouldn't have had Newt be the main character anymore and that maybe this should have been a trillogy
I agree. As a writer myself, these movies feel like what would happen if I wrote a screenplay. My stories are a chaotic mess of characters and plotlines, but I have all the time in the world to flesh it all out, not just an hour and a half.
@@Mary_Studios exactly. i feel like it’s only a trilogy to make more money. CoG felt very weird pacing wise and this movie felt very hollow, like nothing of significance happens. One of the best things of the hp series is that everything seems to have a purpose and a greater meaning but this series doesn’t have that.
My interpretation of this unseen magic we see Dumbledore perform is simply that he is the greatest wizard of all time. We see great magic from him in the original series, but is what we have seen really so vastly powerful? We saw his brilliant planning and obvious intelligence but we didn’t get to see the extent of his power. These unexplained and frankly unparalleled acts of magic allow us to see why Dumbledore has earned his title as the greatest.
When we see the Quilin bow to Dumbledore it may have symbolized that he is worthy in spite of his mistakes. Like Newt said prior [what’s most important is whether we try to correct our mistakes and do better].
Ooo, I like that. 👍
I also think explinations would not of worked for the unknown magic in the original series we had basic spells and they were always set up before and we had the books that can tell us what the spells actually are but in this there is no time to explain every spell because the movie would be 6hrs long for them to explain these advanced spells
Agreed!! Also I don't think we're necessarily owed an explanation for every single kind of magic. There's no explanations behind the magic in, for example, lord of the rings, because it's an accepted part of that universe. Same should be said here, we know the basics from following harry through Hogwarts but im completely down for the idea of 'magic' as a concept existing unexplained and unlimited in the rest of the wizarding world.
I can kind of understand that, but given in the main line Harry Potter series in the movies at least, there are a lot of spells that are performed without being spoken and it has been stated that it is an oversight. Don't get me wrong I think Dumbledore and Bellatrix lestrange are powerful wizards but I don't think they're so powerful that they could go toe to toe with Voldemort using unspoken spells. I think if I hadn't grown up with the books and the movies I would not be as upset but the fact that it has been outright stated that you have to speak the spells, you can't just think them up definitely makes me scoff and roll my eyes every time something isn't explained.
@@almanac4150 No, unspoken magic absolutely exists in the book canon. That was a whole plot point in book 6 where Harry under the influence of felix felicis can finally cast a refilling spell silently when he'd been inept at silent magic up until that point.
If your argument is misworded and you meant to say that one can't simply will something to happen, that you need a codified spell to cast to make magic happen, I'd argue that's not the case either. There is a structure and a theory to casting spells that magic wielders need to understand, or at least there appears to be with all the essays and tests students have to work on. But, we see spells and rituals created multiple times by adept practitioners because they understand the theory well enough they can find the spell they need to create the effect they want. To say that Dumbledore or someone of his accomplishments couldn't Macguyver a simple spell using his vast understanding of the nature of magic seems unlikely given what we've seen him do in the books.
I feel like there needs to be a separate film that is basically a long “flashback” to Godric’s Hollow during that summer that Grindlewald and Albus spent together. Show Ariana’s declining health, and Aberforth falling in love with Credence’s mother.
A prequel to a prequel you're saying
Fantastic beasts presents: Dumbledore and Grindelwald
I don't think I need to see all that. But as Ben and J said, Flashbacks would have been an awesome story vessel for us to understand and care...missed opportuinity.
If any movie was the right place to have those flashbacks, it would have been this one. It really feels like the most obvious way to show us the story elements it wanted to convey, and would have been much more effective than the off-hand comments we got instead.
Harry never got an Obscurus because he never intentionally suppressed his magic, he never knew it existed until he met Hagrid. You can’t suppress something you don’t know exists.
Good point that’s also probably how muggle borns like hermoine and dean (yes Ik he’s half blood but he thought he was muggle born
True.
Harry did use magic though before he knew it existed. He just didn't know how. A good example was the disappearing glass that got Dudley placed in the cage at the zoo.
@@myadoesrandomthings I thought Dean was a muggoe born?
@@benparsons4979 No. He thought he was but his dad was a wizard. He left Dean and his mum to keep them safe during the first wizarding war. He was captured and killed by the death eaters.
I think it makes sense that the Qilin chose Dumbledore, I feel like it was hinted at when Newt said "Lally said something earlier about most of us being ultimately imperfect. But even if we make mistakes, terrible things, we can try to make things right. And that's what matters, trying." And Dumbledore WAS trying to be better.
I think the scene at the beginning with the qilin being killed by Avada Kedavra was a good inclusion. Avada Kedavra CAN instantly kill, but if you remember Barty Crouch junior tells Harry’s 4th year class that they could all use the spell against him and he’d have nothing but a nosebleed. Also, like you guys mentioned certain magical animals have resistance to curses, so I took it to be that the qilin has SOME resistance to Avada Kedavra, and this would mean the spell cast would have to be much more powerful to kill a qilin than it would need to be to kill a human. So the spell killing the qilin but not instantly seems like a slightly weaker version of the spell due to the qilin’s slight natural resistance. I get that you would want it explicitly stated though.
Yeah, just like you can't just use a simple spell against a dragon too! Beasts seem to be very different in regards to spells and the talent of the caster as well
the thing about this is, sure, it's an explanation, but it's not an explanation that was given. they have an expert on magical creatures right there, it would take 10 seconds for newt to say something
@@dudaseifert why would Newt, laying alone in the woods being defeated, explain the slow death through a still unknown curse to nobody? We was barely conscious, we didn't need an explaination.
@@skynikan why would it have to be on that scene?
I kind of agree it was my reasoning as well, but if I remember correctly the french woman was the one who killed the qilin and she is more powerfull than a 14years old (also i think it is mentioned that you have to mean to cause harm to perfectly cast the spell, that is why crutio didnt work fot Harry aganinst Bellatrix in the ministry, but this maybe only true for crutio).
Certain animals have resistance to curses, but avada kedavra kills even a phoenix, which is a very powerfull creature, but the qilin could be stronger
The impression I got with the voting system was that they WOULD’VE voted, but then Grindelwald came along and said “You remember those super rare qilins we used to use for deciding a leader? I just so happen to have rescued a baby one recently.” And then everyone thought “Great! Let’s use that!”
And I also was expecting it to kneel in front of Jacob.
Exactly. This seemed kind of obvious to me. Politicians being shady and coming out with methods that support their ideology/vision/plan
I think those fireworks were supposed to be the votes and the qilin was just there to help people make up their minds.
I also took the fireworks as how magic people voted Green being yes
They still vote. The Qilin's bow acts as a highly regarded opinion on who you should vote for as it shows who is pure of heart. After the Qilin bows you see people voting for who they want (as represented via the "fireworks") and there's still a difference in the votes.
@@judelbugsrutter6727 i thought that's the way wizards vote...
Re: Credence and Abberforth--The insinuation in the conversation between Albus and Newt is *Abberforth's lover was sent away due to conceiving a child out of wedlock.* It was (unfortunately) a common practice in those days to ship off unwed mothers to somewhere far away to deliver the child and put the baby up for adoption afterwards. Then, the woman would come back home after "visiting family abroad" like nothing untoward had occurred, thus saving herself and her family from any scandal.
That's what I got from it. Thought that was pretty obvious. So did Abberforth know he got his girlfriend pregnant? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe her family found out before she could tell Abberforth and then was whisked away without so much as a "good-bye".
@@Black-Swan-007 Yeah, it was told to Newt that Abberrforth thought there was a possibility of a kid but never knew for sure.
@@Black-Swan-007 might not be that common a thing in recent history in America
I know it was well known enough that people asked my grandparents about it happening to my birth and this was in the 90s in Australia
Maybe the mother's family disaprove of Aberthford because the Dumbledore family had a really bad reputation at that point (the father in jail, the mother dead after years of withdrawing from social live).
That sounds about right. Which begs a question - how AND WHEN did Abberforth and Credence link up and started exchanging mirror massages? Definitely not a few years ago during Crimes of Grindelwald, cause Credence had no idea he was related to Dumbledores until the very end of the movie..
Can anyone just accept that Newt and Theseus may have a normal sibling rivalry and that because Theseus is a extrovert and Newt is introverted that their personalities are at odds and that maybe it's normal sibling things that make Newt uncomfortable yet don't bother Theseus. Theseus seems like the brother who doesn't understand his little introverted brother's obsession with magical creatures.
I think it’s important to make a note of that tho. If in a movie there is an important plot point, it can NEVER just be assumed. It must be explained, even if just in a throw away line.
Let me guess.. you're a introvert?
@LFPS0311 I mean yes, but I'm not sure what that has to do with my original question. Wasn't a self insert, just an observation.
Dumbledore sent Lally to exactly where she needed to be to foil the assassination attempt on one of Grindelwald's rivals (which she did by destroying the poisoned wineglass meant for that candidate) while Jacob's actions were distracting everyone from what Lally was doing.
There’s a lot it seems they missed
That seems like the only mission that had a point. Newt and his brother seemed useless. Yusuf’s task seemed pointless and confusing. Bunty’s task seemed pointless.
I feel like the tasks should’ve been both confusing to Grindelwald, but also have had a point.
@@JamesBrown-uv4sn Yusufs task was to infiltrate Grindlewalds team with out knowing that was exactly what he was meant to do. I think it was implied Dumbledore had already given him his mission of going to "spy" on Grindlewald knowing that Grindlewald would Manipulate him into thinking he wanted to join him but Dumbledore knew that his heart was good and he would always choose what is right over what would have been easy. knowing that having him behind enemy lines he would choose what is right at the most crucial moment.
@@tylerslatoff596 I know right, its annoying to see two people who are so invested in the universe miss so much.
@@JamesBrown-uv4sn that was the point of what they were doing actually. It was their countersight which is why none of their plans seemed to coexist. If it was one big plan, Grindelwald would see it coming.
If the Qilin had bowed before Jacob, that would have shown the entire wizarding world that Muggles have the capacity to be pure of heart, which would have contrasted nicely with Grindelwald's anti-muggle speech moments before...
But the qilin bows to someone who’s suit for leadership and pure of heart. I love Jacob but he’s not a leader
@@erinj751 How do we know he couldn't be a leader, with Dumbledore
But that would have hone agains J. K. Rowlings own agenda
The Qilin was fond of Jacob and bowed to the woman who saved him from Grindelwald.
Introducing the mirror dimension here presents the same problem as the time turners. We now have this extremely useful spell that is never used later in the timeline.
Maybe it's either incredibly difficult, or maybe Albus invented it himself?
@@GODLOVERBAM bit then why Albus himself doesn’t use it anymore?
@@amandafranco9264 no need to? The only real duel he has in HP is Voldemort in OotP. And he doesn't surprise Voldemort like he did Credence
@@amandafranco9264 uhm maybe he did? Remember the white king’s cross station where Harry went in deathly hallows?
@@ohboi9578 albus is dead at this point and even tells harry he’s also dead and not sure what that world is , could even be in harry’s head like albus alludes to . i don’t think it’s the mirror world but interesting perspective
I think it is interesting that the dumbledore family has a special connection to the phoenix and it also had 2 members of the family who were obscurials, who lived longer than any other magical person who became an obscurial.
I disagree with the idea that the Quilin 'replaced the vote' I think the wizards voted by blasting the symbol associated with the candidate into the air. My interpretation was that the Quilin's Decision was not meant to replace the voting process but instead provide clarity to the voters, as in confirming which candidate had the purest intentions.
I thought that was obvious with the line "we've seen what the qilin thinks, now what do you think" (or something along those lines)
Yeah, I thought it was pretty obvious that it was just a powerful political endorsement.
That is what I was thinking
Good to see there's a bunch of us who can read between the lines
I thought this as well!
I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that the characters in the Harry Potter series are mostly children/told mainly from a child’s perspective, while fantastic beasts is exclusively adults in a different time period with different laws in different countries. While there are definitely things included that shouldn’t be **McGonagall**, the way we see magic done in The Fantastic Beasts series is how I imagine it to be used, especially when there’s certain topics and books Dumbledore banned while he was teaching/once he became headmaster
This!!!! Like we’re used to seeing the wizarding world through the eyes of Harry, oldest being 17 and barely discovered magic at 11. That’s six years of experience. Here we’re seeing mature witches and wizards who are some of the best at what they do, so naturally the magic is more complex due to 20+ years of magical experience
OMG YES !!!!!!! You talk to my soul !
Exactly the conversation my younger sister and I were having. Even in real life history there are things both good and bad that are unheard of or very rare to see nowadays but were commonplace in the past. Well said truly!
Seriously. These are fictional stories and shoddily written screenplays: we don't need all this hand holding about the physics. There aren't.
I agree. Harry and co have six yrs to magic training. Not to mention how much magic wasn’t passed down, powerful witches and wizards made hogwarts, the death hallows, Horcruxes. HP I feel was just scratching the surface of what magic could do.
Oh, I also really like the scene when the woman that becomes the Mugwamp (i don’t remember how to spell her name) released Jacob from the Cruciatus Curse. This was a quick little scene but it really showed her pureness of heat to help a muggle that she doesn’t know and that Grindelwald ( the new Mugwamp for like 5 seconds) is trying to kill.
Santos was her name. And yes I liked how that scene subtlely shows her as pure of heart.
I think people missed this. Out of all the capable to great wizards present she was the one to release Jacob.
@@mandisi5144 yeah and it was esteablished that there is no counter curse to the cruciatus and what did she cast? a counter curse to the cruciatus meaning she's not only pure at heart but extremely powerful
@@Metalhammer1993 Only the killing curse has no counter spell.
@@ChienaAvtzon no known counter curse for all three of them. Although that idea was contradicted in GOF already when Barty said, he broke out of his father's imperius by being stunned, making stupefy effectively a counter curse to the imperius.
But still I'm sure Barty while posing as Moody said, there is no counter curse for all three of them.
And even stupefy is only a counter in a roundabout way by shutting off one of the teo connected minds and not just severing the connection as a true counterspell would.
What Santos did was literally end Grindelwald's cruciatus and nothing else which should be impossible, hence showing her skill and power.
And well for AK. You'd need a spell to bring back the dead. Which we know does not exist.
I interpreted the German Minister for Magic as being the Head Mugwump of the ICW and they were holding elections for the next one. Which would make sense for the qilin to bow to Dumbledore as he eventually takes the head Mugwump title. As well as chief warlock of the wizengamot. Two positions of leadership I feel like J and Ben forgot he had in this video since they say he was "only" the headmaster.
Yeah I agree, and that's why he is talking about peaceful transfer of powers, because he is the one transferring the power to the next Head Mugwump.
Yeah that’s definitely it but in their defence it was very unclear in the movie
As charms professor at Ilvermorny, it makes sense that almost all of her magic in this movie involved manipulating objects. The book is something she would always have to hand, and performing exceptional charms on its pages reinforces the character or professor and author.
Also I think the book was a regular port key to somewhere with a fireplace and then they travelled by floo network to the train
Agreed. They floo’ed out of a fireplace on that train, they didn’t portkey or apparate. The fact that Lally is a charms professor AND a powerful witch is why she’s so accomplished at manipulating books - not the book itself. J & B keep undermining the power these witches have. Tina seems to be the only woman they respect. It’s not just the book- she’s a badass and knows her brand.
Maybe Lally is so good at charms that she can connect her portkey to the Floo Network
I really loved her stuff. A lot of times in Harry Potter media spells are just shooting different colored lights at each other. Fight scenes especially feel like each side is just throwing bolts of light at one another in either bad-guy green or good-guy red. You could replace the wands with sci-fi ray guns and it’d be almost the same.
Lally’s magic felt like I’m watching a spell caster use her own style of magic in creative ways. It makes her feel more unique as a character instead of ‘Stupify-caster #5’ plus as an audience member it’s really fun to see.
@@VoidNull9222 Exactly my thoughts. A day before I watched the movie I complained to friends about how the fights are so boring and always only shooting light at each other. I was so happy seeing some more creative fighting spells.
Didn't Lally thank Dumbledore for giving her the book?
I’ve seen it twice now since it was released in the UK. It really isn’t bad as critics seem determine to make out. Acting was great, complex storyline at times and moved quite quickly but was not boring or difficult to follow if you pay attention. If you are just looking for constant action and dialogue doesn’t hold your attention then this may not be the right movie for you. It’s not Harry Potter, the main characters are all adults. Chemistry between Mads & Jude was brilliant, the relationship between Dumbledore & Grindelwald is actually believable now. Nice moments of comic relief from Jacob, Newt & Theseus. Soundtrack was spot on. They did a good job with this one
I haven't seen it yet, but I'm pretty excited. Most fans I've seen have agreed that it's very good. I honestly would rather believe the fans, you know the people the movie was targeting, over a bunch of critics who don't really seem to enjoy anything fun it seems like. I very rarely agree with critics when it comes to how they judge Sci-Fi/Fantasy movies, or really any movies that I enjoy watching tbh. Majority of the time it seems like the critiques they have are pretty nit picky and it just feels like they wanted to hate it going in so they just pick at everything to hate. Don't get me wrong, most movies aren't perfect, but most movies also aren't a raging dumpster fire like a lot of critics would have you think. I'm just gonna wait until Tuesday and decide how I feel then. The only thing I know about the movie is that Tina was only really a cameo, which is slighty disappointing, but if they do go through with the next 2 movies, hopefully she'll be a bigger role as she was in the first 2 🤷♀️.
@@goldie2425 my suspicion with a lot of the negative critics is that they are scared to say anything positive about the movie for fear of backlash or being cancelled. It’s a shame. But ultimately it’s just someone’s opinion who’s getting paid to give it rather than paying to see the movie. There really is a lot to like about this movie I personally think. I hope you enjoy it too!
@@Strawbjelly yeah, I'd say you're probably right. I don't know I'm biased because I've been a fan of the wizarding world as a whole basically my entire life. I loved the first Fantastic Beasts, the 2nd one was okay, there was still a lot to love about it and again people defintely sugar coated just how bad it was.
The critics of this movie look too closely to scenes. Can't they just leave their reasoning for some time? Will Dumbledore have to tell you every spell he uses? Just leave it be bruh! You don't look this closely to any other films..why are you judging this film like that?
To people who are yet to watch this film - it's an amazing film..yes there are small things like that suitcase one especially..but the critics all over the yt are too harsh on this film..go and watch it..it shows such an amazing relationship between Dumbledore and Grindlewald..between Jacob and Queenie..between Newt and Tina (just for 60 sec..but still) and also the new character professor Hicks is also awesome. Go and watch it!
You're not a Wizarding world fan if you didn't like the duels in this film! Say anything about the film's plotholes like the mirror dimension sort of thing, the suitcase replication thing etc but the fights are the best in this film! HP movies didn't do justice with magic by keeping it so, so lazer type. You'd know if you've read books that Dumbledore used a lot of his environment while battling, whereas in the film's they stupidly just connected 2 threads of magic together. Were the elder wand and voldemort's wand brother wands? NO! Then how tf did they show their magic colliding like that!
The usage of magic in secrets of Dumbledore is the closest to the books we've come.
For the blood pact: I envision it breaking because, in that moment, Albus and Gellert were taking complete opposite actions. Gellert wanted to kill, Albus wanted to protect. The convergence of their contrasting magic was emblematic of their contrasting souls. Gellert, full of murderous fury. Albus, casting to protect his family. Both men had grown so far apart that the blood pact couldn't stay intact anymore, as it relied on that bond between them.
That makes a lot of sense...
I like your explanation!
Grindelwald was attacking Credence, Albus' blood relation. He was essentially attacking Albus' blood. Thus, it broke the blood pact.
Did you see Grindelwald's face when it broke?
If the writers do something like this, it would have been really lazy writing. They already rely too heavily on exceptions and technicalities
I had a random thought/theory when Ben said about Bunty something like “…how Newt attracts the beasts.” And you guys are right why are they setting up this admiration story for this poor woman? I can see two options;
1. The more morbid theory - She will be a casualty of this war with Grindlewald and may make some sort of last declaration
2. The more out there theory - maybe she is a magical beast in disguise? One we don’t know about? And she/it/they has taken a keen interest in the man who has his own keen interest in magical beasts.
Again just a quick thought x
Can we appreciate the parallel between the Ariana + 3 confrontation/fight and the credence+ 3 scene - the way aberforth and albus were protecting him and grindelwald was attacking- it suggests the dumbledores learnt from that experience and acted first - or… it suggests who was at fault for Ariana’s death (as G was attacking)… idk that’s how I interpreted it
Reading this gave me goosebumps. It’s a really subtle way to show the characters have grown and changed
This makes me wish that credence was Ariana’s child even more.
I think the reason why the qilin didn’t die when Credence hit him with the spell is because he probably didn’t actually have the heart to kill it. To preform the spell correctly you need to really want to kill it.
I was thinking the same thing. just like Bellatrix said
It was Rosier that cast the spells though, Credence broke through the protection. Mean lady cast the spells.
it still died though...
@@perkinsat that's the Cruciatus Curse, not the Killing Curse
@@benparsons4979 it’s also the killing curse. Even Moody, when he was teaching the unforgivable spells, said that even if all the students in the classroom hit him with the killing curse it would do nothing but tickle him because they have to really mean it, and really want to kill him.
19:45 not every creature dies instantly because an Avada Kedavra, guys. Giants and dragons, for that matter, can resist the curse well enough
Here’s my question: do we know what, or possibly WHO sunk the boat that had both controversial children of a Lastrange and a Dumbledore? Had this been explored?
an iceberg I believe
Must've been one of the plot holes in this series. There certainly are enough of them.
I think it was supposed to be the Titanic.
One things that bugged my wife and I is that so much of what happened would have been common knowledge in the Harry Potter timeline. If the Qilin bowed to Dumbledore and it was broadcast to the whole wizarding world like it was, that would have been something that was in history books or at least the book about Dumbledore's life. Right?
Right. The broadcasting itself is totally unheard of before in the Wizarding world. Remember , that They were exclusively using only wizard radios in the 1990-s , yet we have magic now that broadcast live footage , like a big LCD Tv.
Maybe the position the qilin bowing was how Dumbledore became the chief warlock of the Wizengamot. Maybe that is the position that was being decided in the movie
@@matthewmccann9932 True . But he had some high position in this exact intstument they had voted on , didnt he? Maybe he wasnt the leader, but something high
The books statet, that Dumbledoor in some point in his life becomes " supreme mugwump" - thats this exact leadership position.
And between this movie and grindelwalds defeat are up to 16years,wich must pass before.
@@stephanieerbe8655 ah sorr, my bad
I believe Newt would recognize his suitcase anywhere and would protect it no matter what (the same for what is inside - the escape from the Chinese forest was a proof of how Newt's beasts care for him). Bunty asked the Muggle suitcase maker to make half a dozen suitcases, which is far more than what was needed. Grindy had made Theseus, Jacob, Newt, Lally and Yusuf's acquaintance, but not Bunty's. Grindy is a Seer, but what would he make of her? Or his spies? They just saw her leaving the train station with a suitcase and going to a Muggle leather shop - no magic, just Muggle routine. She was the last to leave the Room of Requirement - I suppose that before entering the giant portkey, she switched her fake suitcase for the real one. As she can take good care of the beasts inside it, she kind of told them everything would be all right, and was able to reach Newt at the top of the mountain completely unnoticed (and hiding the suitcase). The "you can't know everything" stuff was about the suitcase switch and not Tina's picture (Tina was watching everything, anyway). Dumbledore had asked Theseus (in front of Newt) to trust him - even if instinct would tell not to - so everybody took their mission to the letter, without questioning (or knowing what the others were doing). Bunty was the card of the muggle game Jacob told Albus about. And since Grindy (and Voldy) "does not seem to understand the nature of things he considers simple" just took Bunty for granted and was baffled by a game of muggle suitcases.
This is what I was thinking too while watching the movie. While Newt wouldn’t want to admit that Bunty can take almost as excellent care of the creatures as him, it’s true. Also using muggle made cases harkens back to the first switch of Newt’s suitcase in the first movie. I also wonder if using the duplication charm would leave a magical “fingerprint” so to speak on the copy that Grindalwald & co. would have been able to detect and thus knowing that it was a fake. If that was the case (hah accidental pun), then they wouldn’t be able to tell with the muggle made cases.
@@FifthAveAtFive Many thanks for agreeing with me!!! I also thought that Bunty should be a Squib as she almost never uses a wand (I guess only the promotional poster shows her holding one), but I was told she actually has one. The wonderful thing is that the Muggle game of cards really worked and Jacob deserves all the wands in the world, for making sure no one dies playing it!
@@FifthAveAtFive I like the "magic fingerprint" of a magic duplicate. I hope the brothers still read these comments
24:30, she said to Jacob "even I don't know how it's done" when he's staring at her book after it performed some magic. I got the impression Dumbledore enchanted that book for her.
26:10, coming from a childhood where my older brother-- the jock cop type-- was pretty mean to me, our restored relationship in adult life teems with awkward "and this is my idiot brother" type rivalry. That's how I felt Newt and Theseus' relationship matured from a possible animosity-driven childhood
That's what i was thinking. The Carlin bros have such a good relationship that they don't really understand complex sibling dynamics. 🤷🏾♀️
My understanding was that the election was for Supreme Mugwump- a position that Dumbledore later held, but was stripped from him in OOTP.
I also think that the Qilin would have bowed to Neville.
I don't believe Dumbledore "spit" at Credence's reflection. There was a snow flake falling that he blew towards the window. Maybe I am mistaken but it seemed clear.
Loool I thought snowflake too !!
Yes. I think he had to send it through the reflection so they could enter to fight on that side of the 'mirror verse' or whatever its called
It was a snowflake
Even the flick device manipulates light which is manipulated by water. That whole scene was amazing!
I thought it was a water droplet.
A few thoughts
The blood pack - to me it was clear it broke because Grindewald attacked the Dumbledore BLOOD line.
Since Credence was in fact a Dumbledore he must have had some protection from the bloodpact. So when Grindewald attacked that affected the charm.
Bunty being Tina - the reveal would have only worked of there was a moment where we see them switch. If it was revealed that Bunty was Tina it would open the question - How long were they swapped?? If it was for weeks on end it would have been very cruel towards Newt.
He is obviously in pain missing Tina. So if she was there the whole time it would have meant that she and Dumbledore actively hurt him for the sake of the plan (or for the greater good in their case)
And Jacobs wand - it is clearly just a stick. The moment in the German ministry of magic when he confronts Grindewald there was a blink and you miss it moment where Lally did a charm which seemed to cause the storm.
So it was all a very big diversion
But then Tina could have obviously explained it all to Newt later. I'm sorry, but I just think they really should have just done that. It would have been a nice reveal for the audience. Tina could have just said something like "I'm sorry; Dumbledore made me promise not to." And Newt being Newt would have accepted it. Plus, I think the guys were right Newt doesn't entrust his case to, anyone but Tina--and maybe to Jacob, too. I just think it's a missed opportunity . . .
I have to disagree about the dumbledore blood protecting Credence from the blood pact, if you remember, Grindewald slapped Credence in the first film. And he held ulterior motives again Credence, which we see in the beginning of this movie that if dumbeldore even thought of directly going against grindewald, the blood pact would harm him. Grindewald was directly wanting to use and harm credence and came at him physically repeatedly thoughout the movies to intimidate and make him submit, a throw back to the woman who raised him and hurt him from the first film.
That being said, idk if you actually saw the movie, but Dumbledore says the reason it broke is because Grindewald sought to kill, and Dumbeldore sought to protect, and i think much like how every time Harry went against Voldemort and harry used a disabling spell while voldy shot a killing spell, and harry was able to push back, i think this has less to do with the intentions on the wizards, and more so the intentions of the wands. Like how Harry and voldy's wands were twins and didnt want to destroy each other, regardless what the wizards wanted, the wands themselves chose to support the one that wont kill the owner of the twin wand. I believe its likely Dumbledore and Grindewald had twin cores, even though they havent spoken on the wands yet. Their small battle is the ONLY time outside of voldy and harry that we see spells connect the way they did, and it would also make sense why dumbledore knew EXACTLY what harry was talking about when he said the wands connected. I believe its likely they found out as teens what happened when they fought each other, which likely is what pushed them to make a blood pact, as well as their shared goals at the time.
It would have broken when the tree way duel happened in that case
@@apollomommy7364 grindelwald’s wand at this point is the elder wand, so I’m not sure their cores can twin. I think their connection is primarily the blood pact and inherent love
@@SophieHarrison69 i do not think time matters for the core of the wands to be related. Death itself didnt actually give these 3 things, they were made by the peverells a long time ago. We also do not know if dumbldore's wand was passed down to him through the family or not. Any other reasoning means dumbledores wand would have been destroyed by the blast from grindewalds, which is far from the case
The qilin bowing to Dumbledore felt right. Coz at the beginning Grindelwald says that a birth of the qilin will mark the rise of a great leader. So the qilin not only sees into the purity of one's heart and intentions but also their leadership abilities. Newt being the only one who was able to find, rescue and interact on an emotional level with it is indicative of his pure heart. Same goes for Jacob at the Hog's Head. The baby qilin immediately takes a liking to him, starts playing and interacting with him again bcoz of his pure heart. We even see the qilin interact with Bunty and Theseus when he's holding it.
We see that the qilin is so avertive and uncomfortable with Grindelwald when he's holding it and won't even look at him bcoz of his bad intentions.
We all know that Dumbeldore can be pretty manipulative but he never once used people as pawns to service his own selfish needs but to serve his own version of the greater good. We see him struggle with self doubt and guilt throughout the film even though he's sending this team on a mission to save the wizarding World. His intentions are indeed pure but he is also a remarkable leader. And that's what causes the qilin to bow to him. We also know from the HP series that he does become Supreme Mugwamp of the ICW post his defeat of Grindelwald.
While Newt still is the leader of the gang in this instance he still isn't as good a leader as Dumbledore and he would never accept such a position either. The same goes with Jacob.
So the qilin bowing to Dumbledore does indeed make sense and is the right choice.
Oh yeah! I think i had this thought too while watching the movie but i forgot because so much was happening. I totally agree, thanks for writing it all out! It makes a lot of sense.
What are you talking about? Dumbledore used Harry, snape, mundungus fletcher, Lockhart to make a few easily as pawns to further his goal. Whether his goals were good or not he def used people to move towards the end of Voldemort or to teach Harry.
I know all of this hasn’t happened yet but dumbledore wanted to dominate the muggles for the greater good. That enough seems worse than all the rest combined
@@a.r11384 none of those were for his own selfish needs. And that's what the commenter said.
@@applepatronum4934 I think it's easy to say no selfish reason to anything then. As long as something benefits you ( doesn't matter if it also benefits others) it could be construed as selfish. IMO Control of muggles for 'the greater good' is pretty selfish. I think muggles would agree.lol
@@a.r11384 well okay. Then there's the argument that no action is selfless. If you're feeling better from doing something good for someone, then you're really doing it for your own enjoyment.
If Dumbledore wants to live in a better world, where Voldemort doesn't kill everyone who doesn't obey him, then yeah, Dumbledore is selfish. He doesn't just want a better world for other people but for himself too (although he kinda sacrifices himself for it..)
I think the spitting through the window and landing on credence’s face is the spell that created the illusion that makes him believe they’re still on the city street they’re fighting on. The droplet hits credence in his third eye (center of the forehead) which would make sense if you’re building an illusion and essentially blocking the persons ability to see things how they truly are. Which would explain dumbledore saying “things aren’t always how they appear.” Maybe I’m breaking my arm with all that reach but that’s what I got from it. Just really advance non-verbal wandless magic.
Sounds very Dr. Strange like
Plus I think it can noted why the suitcases where made “the muggle way” is to be as unconventional as possible. As Dumbledore say, “The fact things don’t go precisely to plan was precisely the plan.” It would be too easy to just duplicate the cases. It’s to be expected, and the point is to be unpredictable. Oh and Dumbledore does become head of the international federation of wizards “king of wizard” himself. It happens between his defeat of Grindelwald and the Harry Potter series. It is called the Supreme Mugwamp. This is the same position indicated in this film.
I also have a question about how duplucating the case magically would have worked. They just needed the exterior duplicated, so wouldn't using that spell also duplicate the interior? What about the animals it? I'm assuming they couldn't be duplicated, but certainly the habitats they are in could be. They could have had the suitable maker just make one though, and duplicated that. She also asked for half a dozen, with the original, there should have been 7 cases, not 5.
Why wasn't that specified in the film though? It wasn't even alluded to. It was simply "the one who will lead us". Why didn't anyone say it was an election of the Supreme Mugwump?
@@benparsons4979 I think the reason they didn't use that exact terminology is because Fantastic Beasts tries to be serious, and "Supreme Mugwamp" is a very silly early harry Potter-esqe name.
@@benparsons4979 Perhaps it wasn’t called that back then. Maybe it’s a name Dumbledore gave it after being election to the position. Rowling also probably figured true Potter fan could figure it out since it is mentioned in the books a few times.
The election was for The Supreme Mugwump and the German minister was the current holder of that position
Edit: 18:22 Dumbledore actually does wind up becoming The Supreme Mugwump later on and is removed when Voldemort comes backs and no one believes him
They even mentioned the International Confederation of Wizards at some point
That’s correct
Yep. When I heard that I got quite excited because I love learning more about the history and lore of the Potterverse. Anything from the past is a bonus for me, and this was personally a big bonus. Also love seeing more ministries of magic around the world.
So I think that Grindelwald is going to kill the new Supreme Mungwump Vicência Santos at some point, starting the wizarding war, and the wizard community is going to ask Dumbledore to take her place since the Qilin Bowed before him too.
Came here to comment this haha
My theory on the Aberforth child thing:
Aberforth may not have known about the baby in the beginning. The mother's family sent said baby to America (possibly believing that having the baby near the Dumbledore family after everything that has recently happened would be far too dangerous, and thinking he would be safer in another country). However Aberforth was told after the ship sunk that the baby died on the boat (as per the flashbacks in second movie where Leta switched the babies and accidentally got her brother killed). As such, everyone thought baby Dumbledore was dead and it was all swept under the rug for many years.
This is until Credence, while with Grindelwald, tries to figure out how he is a Dumbledore/gets told he is Aberforth's child, and manages to figure out this way of communicating with his dad. He's still driven by anger for much of it, and once Aberforth figures out who he is/gets told outright by Albus that he tries to figure out how to step up and be a dad after decades of believing his son was dead.
I whole heartedly agree. Who would want to have their baby be raised in a family that is willing to throw deadly spells at each other? It is cannon that no one knows which of the 3 killed Ariana so both brothers were slinging the killing curse willy nilly
@@ajmccorristin1125 I mean... Do we KNOW that Aurelius' mother even knew how Ariana died or that Aberforth was a wizard?
Well and part of it is the time period a daughter who had a child put of wedlock " as a muggle" would have been sent away and hidden. I honestly don't think Aberforth knew at least at first
So the Lestrange secret baby, and the Dumbledore secret baby, just happened to be on the same *muggle* boat to America? What percentage of the world is a wizard/witch? What are the odds of two plot relevant magical wizard babies (wearing the same blue pajamas), BOTH being sent to America to live in muggle orphanages?
@@danielleberam8748Besides recurring first-hand knowledge of your destination and the surrounding geography, Apparating becomes increasingly difficult the further you travel, and inter-continental apparition is outright deadly - even Voldemort had to fly part of the way after killing Grindelwald before he was close enough to England to apparate there safely, so travelling that way was out of the question, especially with a baby.
If Portkeys was an option, they would have used that. Perhaps there is something about Portkeys that makes it inadvisable to use them to move toddlers around?
They could have flown, probably, but how do you suppose she would have carried the baby on broomback? In a basket hanging off the broom? What if she flew too low and encountered an unexpectedly high tree-top? And have the infant endure the elements? You would have to cross the North Sea, among other things, to get from Britain to USA. Dangerous, right?
I think that the ship sinking notwithstanding, travelling the Muggle way would seem safer than most other alternatives, whether you are Leta's mother or Aurelius' aunt. Especially for the aunt, if she is a Muggle too.
As for having the same pyjamas - on the off-chance that Aurelius' aunt was a witch, how big do you think Diagon Alley is? There wouldn't be a wide variety of shops to buy baby clothes from in wizarding Britain. Some overlap would be a given.
I understood this whole election scene as that Grindlewald and his followers needed the German ministries support for Grindlewald`s candidature as head of the international wizarding federation becoming possible. This is a very clever decision for the plot as it mixes reality with fiction. The film is set in the 1930s, when in Germany the Nazis were on the rise. Vogel clearly holds the Nazis` opinion, which closely resembles with Grindlewald`s ideology.
The Qilin kneeling for Jacob would have been amazing (my wife and I were both thinking it will kneel in front of Newt or Jacob), but it would have completely destroyed everything Grindelwald stands for or possibly just fueled his fire even more.
Qilin not dying with one avada kedavra, I believe, fits a similar pattern to when it took multiple stunning spells on Hagrid (giant blood). Possible that certain animals are more resilient or have a certain blood that serves as protection to some extent. It is also mentioned that dragon hide is resistant to magic, this could be the same as well.
Thesius and Newt are at odds with one another because one is a nerd and one is a jock. They essentially just don't speak the same language. One was possibly very popular at school and the other not.
That's the point!! It would have been SUCH a strong massage, especially after Grindelwald just tried to kill him because he is a "filthy muggle" and declared war on all muggles because they are meant to be inferior to wizards. If the Qilin bowed to Jacob, it would completely destroyed his argument RIGHT ON THE WORLD STAGE with everyone watching. That would have been a perfect moment for everyone to suddenly give up on wanting Grindelwald and vote for one of the other candidates.
It would've made no sense though? The point is for it to choose the rightful ruler of the magical world. He's a MUGGLE. Cute theory, but no.
@@AS-ri1mb nope, the qilin point is to bow to the purest of heart , nothing to do with magic
@@juanitacanon3120 this ^^
I think the reason the Qilin didn't die is the same reason harry didn't die and that is love she still had to deliver the twin Qilin and her purity and love for her unborn Qilin had to be born before she died.
Some of my personal interpretations, and explanations that I found:
1) The case probably couldn’t been multiplied magically because of the entire world with the creatures inside it. You probably can’t multiply living things.
2) People didn’t apparate on top of the stairs because you don’t always apparate specifically on the spot you need to be, there are special entrances for the magical places like Diagonal Alley or many Ministries, or Hogwarts.
3) The vote did take place after the Qilin bow, people voted with the sparks but it was influenced by the Qilin choice.
4) How could a Muggle be in Hogwarts, well maybe it works like a Fidelius Charm, and once the muggle knows about the castle, he can see it and be in it.
5) The tie was a portkey and was probably set to activate in a moment of danger or escape, some people say even specifically when the brothers held hands.
6) The book Lally had was also a portkey which transported her and Jacob to the safe place or a fireplace.
7) That wasn’t a spit but a snowflake/raindrop and we don’t have to know how specifically this magic worked, but it’s clear it transported the fight to the mirror dimension to avoid any real damage.
8) The blood pact broke because, like Dumbledore said, he wanted to protect and Grindelwald wanted to kill, these goals are opposite but at the same time they weren’t fighting each other directly. This explanation is as good as any, it does make sense and we don’t have to know more details to accept it.
9) The ending duel took place in some other dimension related to the blood pact and no one could see it except them. The blood pact was falling the whole time and this is how it’s magic works.
10) The duels with a lot of apparition done were actually quite canon because if you reread the duel at the end of HP5, there was a lot of disapparating from the harms way, it’s pretty common move.
11) It’s very logical for Newt to trust Bunty with his case because she’s been caring for his creatures for 8 years like she said and she earned his trust.
12) The election was for the Supreme Mugwump of the International Confederation of Wizards. This position was mentioned in HP but I think they should’ve mentioned it in the movie too.
13) Why the Qilin didn’t die instantly. The unforgivable curses don’t work easily, you have to really mean it. Moody says it in HP4 and Bellatrix in HP5. Also magical creatures probably have some magical protection, like dragons.
15) Non-verbal spells are pretty common for adults even in HP books. While Harry and co learn stuff, heroes of these movies are all adults, it does make sense for them not to say them out loud.
16) The actress who played Nagini wasn’t available at the time of the filming.
17) Same with Katherine Waterstone who plays Tina. From what I heard, it was something to do with the covid-19 restrictions.
18) They wrapped up a lot of storylines quickly because it’s clear they weren’t sure if there will be more movies. Things could be done in a more exciting way but the other factors forced them to wrap up storylines just in case.
19) Some people say that in this movie the characters achieve nothing and they still have to fight Grindelwald. But the plot of this movie is, they have a clear goal, to stop him from gaining power and winning the election and they succeed. Also the blood pact is now broken. The Credence’s storyline resolved. The Queenie and Jacob are reunited. This is the progress this movie makes. It’s another chapter of the story.
These are just some of my personal interpretations and explanations that I agree with. I feel like this movie made a lot of sense.
No. 4 kept me up all night... Fidelius can be an explanation, but for me it means that Jacob might be a squib... as we know Filch definetly can be in the castle.
This right here! Can't believe how long it took for me to find this comment! I'm certain not mad they didn't understand what was happening because I *just* got home from watching it, but it does feel like a lot of things were ignored. Also, to expand on the point about Bunty, we even know Newt trusts her with the creatures he cares for because we see in Crimes that he trusts her with the one that he doesn't carry with him (we can presume that this can happen for extended periods of time as well because he seems to be gone a lot). Idk, personally, this was a movie I enjoyed a lot. Not as much as the first movie, perhaps, but I certainly think it's not as confusing as they seem to believe. I do appreciate how well you explained your points by the way! Helped clear up some things I was wondering about too!
I'll only nitpick on number 1. We see Hermione duplicate the locket in DH, and technically that contained a living thing. I think duplication just copies the object, none of its magical properties.
Thank you, I agree on every point
+
There's precedent showing that super powerful magical creatures can resist some spells effects, even the killing curse. The spells are made for Wizards, not beasts. We see that beasts like dragons and giants have magical properties that protect them from spells, so I think it's safe to assume that's what protected the qilin. It was hit with 2 consecutive curses so it probably couldn't protect itself that much, but in my mind this explanation makes sense and was somewhat implied from the main series.
Yes, the pufferfish tiger from the first movie is stated to be almost impossible to knock out with desmaius at least thats what the book says. Of course avada kedravra is much more powerful but im pretty sure they still take more than 1 spell to get killed
I definitely would love to see Dumbledore and Grindy interacting when they weren't yet enemies.
I wish they would have been lovers in the 20s and 30s so it was a fresh heartbreak in the 40s to defeat him 😭
I think using the Muggle leatherworker was a diversion tactic; Grindelwald would expect an enchantment used to conceal something from him , but a Muggle using Muggle technology to duplicate a seemingly nondescript item? Not so much.
And maybe he couldn't see them the way he does with the magical folk. I totally agree this was purposeful. And I don't think they could just duplicate Newts case, it has a whole ecosystem in it!
That’s a great point
@@kierrakallunki1879 Exactly! I don't think casting the Gemino Charm on his case would've worked, it probably would've made a disaster
I also feel it has to do with something Dumbledore said during the Harry Potter movies (I believe it was in half blood prince) that “magic leaves traces”. So if they had duplicated the case, it would maybe leave a magical trace on its exterior and thus, be differentiable.
It was Avada Kedavra they used against the Qilin. Spells dont have the same effect on Beasts as they have on humans. Just look at how Hagrid - a half giant - could withstand multiple Stupify spells for example.
I honestly left the cinema with a much better feeling than for the last two movies. I loved some of the small moments, where the movie payed homage to the original HP movies, as an example when Aberforth said "always" to Credence, I got chills! (HOW COULD YOU NOT TOUCH ON THIS!?!?) Honestly, even tho I understand and totally agree with your points on stuff just not being explained, I loved the movie.
I cringed so hard at the "always," I audibly scoffed.
I think that’s actually the biggest problem. These movies are just banking on the Harry Potter legacy at this point, and using little moments like the ones you loved to draw old fans in for the nostalgia. Look past that and what you’re left with is a hot mess of a plot that makes no sense whatsoever. (No judgement though, you like what you like and more power to you. This is just my take on it.)
@@alishbaloya7904 NAIL ON THE FRICKIN HEAD
That part felt so corny and unearned to me. I wouldn't dare connect it in my mind to Snape's last scene because it feels so disingenuous and would cheapen a poignant moment from the original HP movies.
That "always" was the worst part of the movie.
Side note, the Gemino spell is used to double something but the Gemino **curse** causes an object to multiply repeatedly when touched.
My assumption for Dumbledore saying “we didn’t know” to Credence was that both he and Abeforth didn’t know where the mother had taken the child when she ran away. I was pretty sure it was mentioned that one day the mother just left with the child.
I think that she was hidden by her family because of the shame associated with pregnancy out of wedlock and the family sent the child away, not the mother or the Dumbledores'
I agree. Also remember Albus made Aberforth return to school because he was still underage, so the mother was probably just as young...her family in that time definitely would have tried their best to hide it. In the movie someone said there were rumors, so I don't think Albus paid attention to the rumors at all and aberforth probably always remembered the rumors but never could confirm their validity
I assumed the Mother had left whilst pregnant - possibly before Aberforth found out she was pregnant, agree her family likely sent her "to visit family abroad" for a year. The Mother possibly died on that boat - though maybe not as the lady holding the baby in that scene doesn't look like a teenager
Just saw the movie. My thought on Aberforth not dealing with his son: he was young (probably shy of being of age) as was she probably. Albus tells Newt that "they sent her away." Her parents probably sent her away to get her away from Aberforth, then found out she was pregnant. She had the child and was sent to America with the baby. Aberforth was probably not aware he had a son until he was told of the presumed drowning. He said he thought about his son...he mourned the child he thought he had lost.
This is what I believe probably happened as well.
Excellently summerised
Pretty sure they sent her away because she was a young, unwed mother in 1899 when such a thing was incredibly shameful and frowned upon. It was not uncommon for pregnant young women to be sent away. It why I kind of think Credence's aunt is actually his mother. Her claiming to be his aunt would have protected them both in a way.
Okay, I agree that might have been what happened. Soooo at which point did he find out his son was alive? And started exchanging mirror messages with him? Because it certainly wasn't a year ago when Credence had no idea he was related to Dumbledores until Grindelwald to him
Bunty's purpose was to keep the critters safe - dumbledore knew it was Newt's weakness
I am amazed at how atrocious the writing has been on this series. The HP books were great. The first two movies were great. All went downhill after that imo.
But since Rowling is supposed to be the writer on these movies...... I just don't get it. How did she come up with such an incredibly detailed story like HP, and then this poor fanfic after?
Maybe she's actually Lockhart. Lol.
For real, I can’t stand FB none of them, you hit it on the head this fanfic absolutely sucks!
Writing a book and writing a screenplay are very different and are different talents; being good at one does not mean you are good at the other. In a book you can TELL the audience things via character thoughts and introspection. In a film, it has to be shown, as you can’t do that. Lots of authors fumble with that when trying to write a screenplay. Also The Crimes Of Grindelwald was pretty bad. JK couldn’t figure out how to show things at an acceptable pace half the time so it resulted in exposition dumps that were just awful. It was the film that disrupted faith in the series as a whole. Also, it’s pretty bad practice to undo resolutions from a previous film. Everyone’s stories were wrapped up nicely at the end of Fantastic Beasts. This put FB2 at an automatic disadvantage because then JK had to come up with ridiculous reasons for why the characters are continuing in the story as they are. It seems pretty obvious to me that Fantastic Beast was conceptualized as a stand-alone to see how audiences received it, and then it was extended into a full blown series. Many don’t remember but sequels for FB were not announced until several months AFTER it had released (Warner Bros saw they could milk it due to audience reception) and originally it was announced as a trilogy. They then extended it to 5 films because money.
Rowling had had more than 20 YEARS thinking up the story and the world befor actually writing the Harry Potter books. Although she made it seem like she thought of it all during just one train ride one day, in a few documentories people who were children she grew up with AND she herself stated that she had thought out much of the Harry Potter stories in that time already, as she and those children play-acted them out back then.
It all went wrong AFTER the HP books. Like Miss Autumn says: the first two movies were great, the rest were too different from the books and looks of the first two. I will forever HATE the person who desided it to be a cool idea to make the whole WORLD (and movies) turn ever more dark and black and white, just because Voldemort became stronger again.
The "spit" thing was actually a snowflake ❄️ that Dumbledore blew towards the glass and transported them to the mirror world or something. I also believe that while they were inside the mirror world, they were still physically present in the real world. Maybe you can say that it all happened inside their heads? And the way to get them back to reality is with the use of the deluminator just like how it helped Ron find Harry and Hermione in HP.
EDIT: @Flynn The Redhead I re-watched that scene over and over again and I'm pretty sure it ain't a rain drop.
1. It was snowing in that scene.
2. The "thing" didn't go down in a straight line like raindrops do. It went somewhat in a circular motion in some inches away from Albus then went near his lips then he blew.
3. If it was raining back then, I think people would've been drenched already or maybe go run and find cover but nobody seemed to bother that much.
4. The "thing" looked like a tiny ice form covered in something like a blob (maybe water - form) after it's entered the mirror.. then hitting Credence on the forehead.
Sorry, English isn't my 1st language but I hope they make sense.
∆ BUT, I totally agree with people saying "poor story telling" and this film is definitely lacking on so many levels. Could've been better. It felt rushed.
That scene gave me crazy Marvel Multiverse/Dr Strange vibes
Thank you for this comment. Dumbledore would. never. spit. on someone. I was yelling at me screen during this part of their rant hahaha. Dumbledore pressed the deluminator to get them in and out of this mirror-verse. It’s not that far of a stretch from what J & B already theorized about the deluminator being a “portal” as Dumbledore used the reflection of the shop window to “enter” the mirrorverse, but it feels like they want to hate this a lot and aren’t acknowledging the connections.
No it was a raindrop lol
Bottom line: it's not spit. Dumbledore's got so much style
@@chechantal I think the issue is what they already explained. Is that there isn’t a explanation for it that acknowledges it
I might have got this entirely wrong, didn't Aberforth also cast a spell at the end of the film? And it was both the Dumbledores protecting Credence (like they tried with Arianna) while Grindelwald sought to kill. I assume it was similar to the love magic Lily used, which is why Dumbledore recognises it and can explain it to Harry in King's Cross.
You're right, Aberforth did cast the spell at the same time as Albus and it did remind me of their three way duel to protect their family member. Loved that reference there ❤️
It isn't the love speed Lily used, her spell required her to sacrifice her life and grant a very long term protection. The spells Albus and Alberfort used was a counterspell for a short moment.
It might be similar but I'm still trying to figure out what exactly broke the blood pact.
It would have been a great scene if when Albus cast that spell, the blood pact started suffocating him, unable to defend Credence, and then Aberforth came into the rescue
@@bowenwesley1 basically by making an error. Basically by making the two wizard spell hit each other, without intending to fight one another, the spell broke due to terminal error that I can't really comprehend.
Would be more satisfying was if the spell broke at that time was solely because during that moment, Dumbledore just stopped loving Grindelwald and the pact only could be active if both participant still loved each other.
I love the movie, I think it had more structure and better pace than the last one.
The actors were brilliant, I feel like people don't mention Yusuf Kama enough, the actor has the best poker face in the world, I wasn't able to tell his intentions until the very end.
When it comes to some plot holes I agree it was not explained but I just assumed a lot of things, not sure if a lot of people agrees but:
1)Qilin was not killed instantly by avada kedavra because its a powerful magical creature so it takes a while
2) Dumbledore did not SPIT at Creedence, it was a raindrop or a snowflake 🤔
3) the scene in the restaurant and on the street with Dumbledore and Creedence/Grindelwald was some form legilimency. Creedence collapsed on the street and then the rest happened in his head.
4) I agree the expectations were too high when it comes to the suitcase maker but I understand it - Newt was super anxious during that customs scene in the first movie and we have seen the animals trying to get out so I think it's reasonable Bundy didn't want to give it to him. I think they wanted handmade suitcases to make sure there was no counterspell to disappear them.
5) I think the mirror was created at that time and it never existed before. Specifically made by Abelforth and Creedence to communicate with each other and then later used by Harry.
One issue - Grindelwald's qilin was clearly dead, it literally looked like a zombie. I'm surprised none of the people present stopped and said "is your pet OK?"
The way I thought of it was that Qilins are so rare maybe people didn't see it because they've never seen a Qilin before. Like, the 2 compared to each other makes it more clear, but if you see just the one... looks like what you know so it'll be what you know. If that makes sense?
The big issue with the FB movies compared to the HP movies is the lack of proper world building. JKR took so long to think through all of the little details of how magic works and how things interact within the wizard of world when she wrote the HP books. But with these movies they aren’t taking that extra step to really establish and explain the rules for stuff, so we as the audience continue to be kinda confused about how things work in this wizard of world.
Dumbledore said that Aberforth's lover disappeared and there were only rumors of a child. To me that implied that they didn't know for sure that Credence existed and Aberforth wasn't a part of sending him away. Maybe his mother even took him to America herself, but died on the ship.
She probably was a muggle too, because why send a witch away and with her wizard son, who cared what the muggles thought if she was unmarried.
She may have died when the ship went down (a woman is seen diving after Corvus in COG) but Credence was probably just sent away since this was a teenage pregnancy in the 1800s.
I think the girl's parents might have sent her away as she was unmarried and was going to have a baby which would bring a lot of shame to the family name and they sent her away just to get rid of her (and that was really common back in the 19th century). And aberforth then thought that the girl he loved and his child had both drowned (Although credence was actually travelling with his aunt which means that something happened (she died) to credence's mother while she gave birth to him. His mother i.e. aberforth's girlfriend actually died giving birth to his child which he wasn't aware of). But when credence was told that he's albus dumbledore's brother he just tried reaching out to them via that mirror thingy and dictated the story he's been told about being a dumbledore by none other than Grindelwald.
I think it's possible that the election was for Supreme Mugwump of the International Confederation of Wizards (which I take to be wizarding UN), a position which Dumbledore did hold later in his life, along with being Chief Warlock of the Wizengamot. I definitely liked this movie better than Crimes of Grindlewald
It was! Vogel and that lady that was elected at the end are Supreme Mugwumps. It would explain why Dumbledore took over for the lady...the Qilin had already chosen him.
@@vermontvampyre they have the power to declare literal wizard wars and can pardon people of all crimes? And this position isn't elected?
@Zoe Zubko they meant the Supreme Mugwump. Not the Qilin.
The chemistry & emotion I felt between the 3 pairs: Newt & Tina, Jacob & Queenie, Dumbledore & Grindelwald are one of the few reasons I didn't exactly dislike the movie...they are what kept me engaged despite such incohesive plotline...
I would have loved an explanation for all of the magic Dumbledore was performing, but I think the point they were trying to make was that, as was said about him previously, that he did things with a wand that people have never seen. So we don’t get an explanation, because no one except Dumbledore know’s how it works, adding to the mysticism of him and how far above in talent he is from almost everyone else.
This right here. This is exactly what I think. He's the most powerful wizard....of all time next to Merlin. I love J and Ben but I think they are thinking too much and obsessiing over the details or lack thereof and it was slightly annoying
i agree, and i think an explanation of what it was or how it works would have been awkward to force into the movie. maybe they could have had a scene that foreshadowed it, but the movie was already long and i think that works better in the books, especially in harry potter where the explanation of spells feels natural, because its kids in school and harry is learning about the magical world along with the reader/viewer. no one was there to view what dumbledore was doing, he would have had to be like, hey guys guess what i just did, it is this thing i learned from dr. strange and lets go to the room of requirement so i can teach you how to do it for no reason.
idk but the fact that Dumbledore can just send people to the shadow realm seems like it could have been useful later on
@@tjtennisicmroll2k THIS. Even in the books and the movies some things didn’t get explained. A lot of what we know is either from these videos, suspicions, or deep dives on pottermore. I think it’s okay for things to be unexplained!
Dumbledores deluminator allows him to eavesdrop on his hearts desire, which is Grindelweld. (We know this because of what happened to Ron later on) Perhaps Albus could communicate with him as well?
The deluminator only works that way if the light it's currently holding is a light that another witch or wizard created with magic. Hermione made the fire with her wand and it was taken in by the deluminator. This is why Ron was able to hear her it's not about your heart's desire. Dumbledore just held onto Grindelwald's light until he no longer needed it.
@@BrockSamsonite where are you getting this information about magical light? Because as far as I'm aware it is very much about you're hearts desire
@@DarthAxolotl it's been a while since I read it. But I found it on Pottermore. As well as the clues setting it up in the last two books.
I knew you guys will likely be disappointed. It’s understandable, what you said about the rules. But for me the movie was not about explanations, but about the emotion, heart, the characters.
Jude Law’s acting is amazing. I’m so happy that Dumbledore finally gets a canon representation in the movies which is true to the books, where the depth of his character is shown, with his humour, brilliance and a good heart. I loved the moment when the Qilin bowed to him. And the ending duel was so beautifully done, with the dynamic, music and all the emotions. It was heartbreaking. For me it is now one of the best moments in all HP movies. And the moment when the three spells meet? Like their duel from the past, same three characters? It was great and kinda poetic.
I was also very moved by the Credence’s story, just how tragic it is. This loneliness, when you feel it in real life, you do understand it and connect with it. And he finally found home.
Also, there were quite a few lighthearted and touching moments between characters. I loved Dumbledore and Jacob interactions. Little everyday magical things here and there. The buildup in the final act of the movie. The creatures were wonderful. The music was really great. Beautiful performances by all the actors, old and new. I liked how the Qilin plot finally made sense at the end and it was a surprise that felt satisfying to me.
But most of all, I really connected with the emotions of the characters and I just really felt it.
Nicely put. I couldn't put into words but this is the part I enjoyed about the movie.
Although we all secretly crave the magic (no pun intended) from HP which had the creativity, emotional journeys AND sound movie logic.
this is beautifully put, i didn’t know how to put it into words but you did it. the magic of the harry potter universe comes the heart and the emotions between characters, the rules are not perfect but the rules are not what makes people coming back for more. it’s the journey and the emotions you get from the series
Beautifully put. 100% agreed.
Man i feel people are being overcritical on this movie. I loved it and I completely agree with you, emotion and character made this movie for me.
Amen to absolutely everything you said!! This movie is not for thinking but rather for feeling, and it is full to bursting with emotional moments like when Jacob - the ultimate muggle - confronts Grindelwald - the most powerful dark wizzard until then - on behalf of Queenie, or the Scamader brothers accidentally holding hands, the reunion of Creedence and Abaforth - not to mention Abe's stepping in to save his son from the killing curse- and, of couse, the showdown between Gellert and Albus, which literally made me tear up 😭 anyway, brilliant comment friend, thank you for bringing all of that up ❤
Absolutely loved this movie, and from my point of view it's great in conveying emotions and making us emphasize w/ the characters.
I cried several times throughout it, since there are plenty of powerful scenes: Newt laying next to a dying Qilin mother and being in such pain since he failed to protect her. Aberforth telling Credence to come home in his last moments and also this 'always' parallel, absolutely heartbreaking.
Finally, us seeing how lonely and isolated Albus really is. I think we as observers are quick to judge him for not being honest and open enough with those who are infinitely loyal to him, but this movie made me realize how much of a burden he's carrying throughout his life. Losing his lover, blaming himself for Ariana's death, not being good enough brother to Aberforth, etc. I think all of that is enough to make truly opening up to someone almost impossible. For me the last scene is us finally understanding how much he's missing on having this meaningful connections with people contrary to the main characters who are able to experience that.
9/10 for me!
How come Gellert hasn't confronted Albus about Ariana yet? In Gellert's world, Ariana would have never had to hide her magic.
Good chance he knows who did it
I think it sounded like that Credence's mother's parents sent her away as soon as they found out she was pregnant and never allowed her to tell Aberforth, and he never knew until she was already gone and the ship sank
Dumbledore said something to the effect that they heard rumors of a child.. so Aberforth didn't know for sure.
In regards to the suitcase, Bunty's mission was to always have the real case. All the cases we see in the Room Of Requirement are fake. That is why when Albus asks Newt if he can spot his own case and Newt says no, Albus says he is relieved and that he would be worried if Newt could. The real suitcase is not even there at all, so there is no way Newt could identify his case.
Of course! Non of them are the true one. That's brilliant!
Here’s my issue, when Bunty asked for the extra cases, she asked for 6 extras. If you include the original, there should be 7 in total. Yet only six were around.
@@samuraijack1324 True. However, I think Bunty kept the original one hidden somewhere. Then, once everyone else left, she retrieved the real one.
@@fournierman even if she did, that still leaves one missing. Jacob took one, newt took one, Lally took one, Theseus took one, bunty took another and had the original. Unless the last one was for Yusuf but something happened?
@@samuraijack1324 Didn't Albus take one too?
Agree with everything you said. Little rant:
1. Without the Qilin bowing to Jacob, why was he even there? Why did Dumbledore insist on him being there?
2. What was going on with Queenie - what was the point of her ever siding with Grindelwald if she's now back, just like that? How did her changing sides twice affect the overall plot?
3. Was very disappointed with the Credence reveal. The first two movies were basically about him being special, just like you said. The kid who survived the obscurus, and then boom, a DUMBLEDORE. Announced as the big final scene of Part 2. The Cliffhanger, wildly speculated about. I firmly believed in the theory that somehow Ariana's obscurus got transferred to him and that's how Grindelwald knew about him, that's how he survived it this long (it wasn't produced by his own body). Just to now be like yeah, he's Aberforth's son. I sat in the cinema like "... really? That's it?". He's set up and basically drilled to fight Dumbledore by Grindelwald, then they have a little street brawl and suddenly it's all over? Oh and also, he's dying now because his anger's gone. (And wasn't Nagini something like his love interest? How isn't she even mentioned?)
4. Also found it very telling you barely mentioned Yusuf, as in "His plot wasn't even relevant enough to make it into the review". Which it wasn't. It made even less sense than the whole Bunty suitcase shenanigans.
5. The blood pact breaking - I sat there thinking, well that's convenient now, isn't it. Like you said, why even include it in the first place?
6. The title. Did we actually learn any Secrets of Dumbledore that we didn't already know from HP? Other than Aberforth having a girlfriend as a teenager, that is.
7. I feel like Newt is kind of drowned out. I loved the first movie because he was given so much space - he's a brilliant protagonist because he's so unconventional and unobtrusive. His methods are quirky, unorthodox. He works because he is unique. Which means he is, in my opinion, not the best character to put in a group situation like the one he is in now. Or at least, not in such a large group. He currently doesn't get the screen time he needs to shine.
To summarize, I felt like there was a lot of wasted potential. So many plot threads, so many intense set-ups from the previous movies just fizzled out into irrelevance.
But not to end on too much of a bad note, I found the movie okay - in the way that I don't regret going to see it but wouldn't necessarily want to do so a second time. Liked to see some of the German wizarding world (being German myself), and also the Bhutan scene. Laughed out loud at the crab dance scene. Liked that Dumbledore's love for Grindelwald was made explicit. The concept of the Erkstag prison was genius. Eulalie was cool. The acting was brilliant from all of them. Am, despite my slight disappointment, excited to see where they are going with the next part.
Thanks for the video, take care!
(Edited for English reasons)
17:20 I think they actually did vote by casting the colored spell on the air (the one that they also used to celebrate each candidate), the role that I think the qilin had was that it influenced more people to vote for grindelwald as they thought his intentions were really pure at heart and they remembered their old tradition
I might need to rewatch it though, but that's what I thought on my first watch
I think that both the scene where Dumbledore talks with Grindelwald and the one where he fights Credence were both done using Oclumency as we know Dumbledore is supposedly very gifted at it. In addition to this, I am (as always) a massive fan of Jacob but for a movie that ends with him getting married, it would have been nice for him to have some more moments with Queenie and an addition scene with Lally to enhance their friendship. I feel the same for Credence and Aberforth. While I thought the final Credence reveal was a good way to close a plothole, I think just one more scene with them just sitting and bonding either through the mirror or in person would have sold me more on it. Another way that both this scene and previous existing lore could have been enhanced was by clarifying that Aberforth confronted Albus and Grindelwald because he knew they planned to run away together and he felt bitter that he was forced to stay and care for Ariana instead of run away with Credences mother.
Great point!
I also thought the author confirmed that Jacob and Queenie wouldn't get married for ages?
I loved it personally. Lally was just amazing! And i DIED at Newts dance and swivel, delicately. My friend and I have been laughing about it regularly since we saw it. There are definitely more questions we need answers to and some of it I'm a bit confused by but I really loved it!
We also noted there were 6 suitcases made and only 5 were at Hogwarts... my theory is that Bunty was always going to have the original but obviously the others couldn't know. So when dumbledor told Jacob not to take one it was adding to the effect of nobody else knowing (but also he wanted Jacob to have the one with the pastries)
The first mirror message was “forgive me”. It was my impression that the first message was from Queenie to Credence. I feel that Credence learned to send the mirror messages from her.
I think the fight between Dumbledore and Creedence happened in Creedence's mind. It seemed to me that Creedence was laying donw in the same place where he was hit in the forehead by Dumbledore's spell. Dumbledore clearly can use legitimacy, so i'm sure that whole fight happend in Creedence's mind and Dumbledore just used the window to reflect the spell he casted so he wouldn't have to turn and face Creedence, thus initiating a fight that would've killed a lot of people (sneaky sneaky Dumbledore). I thought it interesting that all of a sudden no one was running away or around during the altercation all of a sudden. So I'm lead to think that because it was in Creedence's mind and he was solely focused on fighting Dumbledore, his brain didn't project people being around becasue it wasn't his focus. But if you ask, how and why were there people in the tram? They were there ether because Dumbledore put the thought into his head to maintain a since of realism, or Creedence thought and considered there being people on the tram and resolved to steel himself of killing bystanders or didn't care. Right at the start of the fight, it's subtle but you can see it, once the (i'm a call it) "thought bubble" made contact with Creedence's forehead: Creedence (in reality) fell ot the ground and Dumbledore rushed over to him while Creedence was experiencing the fight with Dumbledore in his head. Hope that makes sense.
Forgot to mention: it is known that Voldermort could project images into peoples mind. It was one of his most cruelest ways of torturing his victoms. So this happening in Creedences mind is totally possible.
With the suitcase: Bundy went to a muggle suitcase maker to confuse Grindlewald. As for the spell used when the cases were opened. It's the same spell that was used in Belatrix's vault when team Potter went there to get the Horcrux.
Question: If an obscurist is created by the suppresion of magic within a witch or wizard......wouldn't it the obscurial be cured if the witch or wizard uses magic to release that pent up magical energy?
I also wonder if the reason bundy used a muggle for the suitcase is because you couldn't use geminio on newts with all the magical creatures and expansion etc on it?
You might want to Google 'legitimacy'.
I have the same question...
@@KK-jb1fy maybe it’s a spell name
@@maya-dd7qo legilimens and legitimacy, no where near...
newt’s smile when the professor lady (i forgot her name:/) is talking about tina on the train is so freaking adorable!!
I don't think the Qilin bows when you're pure of heart but when your intentions are pure.
It bowed for Dumbledore because he did not want Grindlewald to cheat with the spelled Qilin and didn't want to take advantage of the situation and become minister himself, kinda like the stone in the mirror. Dumbledore is far too manipulative and has had issues for him to be "pure" as a entire character in my opinion.
Maybe "intent" is a bigger part of magic than we thought, nonverbal spells are basically cast with intent. the mirror was spelled with intent, the room of requirement, patronus etc. it may also explain some of the weirder magic we've seen (putting the guy inside a stone wall without killing him etc) or they want to move away from the very one dimensional spells in the HP movies.
100% this. Would be nearly impossible to find a completely pure at heart person otherwise. Also like it as a character moment for Dumbledore, who earlier has nearly given up hope for himself.
YES to this. I agree 100%
I really like the idea of intent being really important as an explanation. For example, If someone says a spell wrong and it does not work, it’s not that they did it wrong but that they do not seem to care enough about the spell to get it right which causes it not to work.