Ultimate TEMP CONTROL mod on the Oklahoma Joe's Offset Smoker
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ก.ย. 2022
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I love where this is going! Closed loop with a second radiator might be the only "practical" thing to do for a long smoke.
You got me thinking!
Interesting video, thanks. I have an OKJ Highland also. When stack vent is wide opened and fire box side door is wide opened, I can generally hang in at the 250-300 swing range (aiming for 270-280) with splits about 8" long. A few weeks ago I did a brisket in the 200-250 swing range (aiming for 225-230) by using same size splits and fire box side door wide open but stack vent at 3/4 open. Still thin blue smoke. That method works for me; not sure it's feasible for you anymore because you cut your stack hole on the side of your cooking chamber completely wide open. But again, I appreciate your video!
That's a good method! Yea I still have a damper on my stack
I have an old brinkmann 1/4 offset that looks identical to the Yoder Cheyenne. I bought the 1/4" tuning plate for the Cheyenne and it was a little too long so it got hacked to length. Removed about 3"x10" of steel. What a night and day difference. I can now throw in hefty splits or forget about it and the temps just stay locked in around 220-250 where before it was work to stay below 275. I still can burn super clean fires and it has really good draw. I think once my thermal mass in the whole smoker gets up to temp, it now has enough mass that it's idle temp is around 220. The fire being obstructed as soon as it comes into the cooking are has no chance but to be deflected and absorbed so the convection heat remaining must not be more than 250f. I am super pleased with this and now it's easier to tend the fire but I also don't burn the bottom of my brisket. Huge wins all around.
No second radiator required. Recirculate warmed water and introduce cold water via mixing valve when setpoint is exceeded. It's really that simple.
Love the ideas and the way you approach the art of BBQ with a scientific method. This idea a lot of room left to explore for sure.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Dry erase markers are quite "remarkable"! Cool, videos! I pulled the trigger on my OK Joe smoker after watching some of your videos! Thanks!
Nice test. Would have been interesting to see how air through the radiator (rather than water) would have worked. Ala automotive turbo intercooler in reverse. No wasted water and could increase/ decrease air flow easily. May have already been suggested, but if not, would be nice to see.
It seems that if one wants the offset smoker effect one will have to attend the fire with some regularity. For those who want to run unattended BBQ cookers (myself!) a OJ Bronco Pro (I have the smaller version) and a PID controller (mine is a FireBoard with Fan Controller) anyone can have temperatures that don't vary by more than a few degrees over 14 hours.
In any event, thanks for another thought-rich presentation on the world of BBQ.
Thanks man! Yea whatever I seem to do, if I want that offset flavor there's always manual effort involved
Very cool idea, and a fun experiment. But I would worry the radiator will get get clogged with Soot eventually and cause more fire issues.
I commend you. It takes balls to post up a video that's so different from anything anyone has ever tried. Looks to me like your The Mad Scientist at BBQ 😉😉
Post a link to the radiator? I've got the same ok joe and thinking on the same goal as you. Low and slow with less fire babysitting, your snake method video with the coconut charcoal is great, will be trying a smoke like that soon
how much water did you go through? lon a per hour basis?
Great experiment again. I've got another one for you: does the distance of for example a brisket to the top of the smoker affect the amount of smoke it gets?
Always love your experiments! Thanks
Thanks Paul!
Pretty cool experiment, worth a try, Thanks man!
Thanks!
Something like this could be nearly set it and forget it if someone could invent some sort of device to drop a split whenever the temperature falls to a certain point after being cooled by the radiator to that point. This could really be viable if someone would create such a combo. Nice work.
Great concept. It definitely gives me some ideas on how to cool the smoker. It's really tough to manage a fire and keep it low. When you live in temperatures of 110+, and the ambient temp of the smoker in the sun is 125+, it's really hard to keep it to 225.
I do worry about the type of metal in the radiator and if it would give off any chemicals under high heat.
Smoke in the winter, up north lol.
Yep on hot days it gets even harder.
I have a Horizon 16" offset, same thing you have to get tricky to keep the temps below 275-325. Only way these smokers seem like they would hold low temps is with only coals. I was thinking a separate burn barrel for the wood where you shovel hot coals out of the bottom into the offset's fire chamber might work.
I've tried it. It's a pain in the butt. But it produces an amazing flavor because it's all fresh coals
Interesting. Running into the same temps at 275-300 with a plate mod. Not a terrible temp to have considering its reading from the lid thermostat. What was the temp without water and just the coil blocking the firebox? I’d be more interested in that rather than all the hook ups.
Appreciate the experiment. Tuning/baffle plates and maybe a water pan is all you need
How has OHJ not asked you to design their new pits. This mod is the thing of legends 🎉
Have you ever tried the drive blower by fire board? It’s a fan that goings on your firebox baffle.
That is, actually, awesome. This may be a game changer for small backyard smokers.
Maybe one day!
I use a convection plate on mine, with water pan. I burn one 12 inch split at a time and have no problem keeping 225 to 250 all day long. Lump charcoal added every 2 to 4 hrs.
Honestly this could be the first step towards having an offset which runs as hands free as a pellet smoker. Having an electronic controller on the flow valve, to allow it to open and close based on a digital thermometer to adjust the temp, as well as a feeding system for the splits. You could even set up the feeder so it passes along the top of the fire box to get the splits toasty before they go in so they catch easier. It would need some kind of mechanical assistance though.
Man that would be cool!
I have been wanting to design something like this for many years. You can also have a micro controller that is hooked up to a fan that rotates the fan blades at a variable frequency based on temperature, then aim that fan into the fire box door.
Did the smoke seem to make it through the radiator fine? Wondering if it would alter the smoke flavor at all
Yep. It condenses a bit though
Love it. Backyard engineering genius.
Can you put a link up for that little radiator please
You get a fat dense log layed directly on the fire with a small coal bed with little air flow between the log and coals. That is what works for me. Nice blue smoke most the entire time. It took me listening to jirby from goldies bbq the number 1 in Texas to realize we don't need clean smoke all the time. We don't need to have rock solid temps. We just relax and have fun without all the nitpicking and I made the best brisket I ever had with the worst cut of meat.
That's awesome!
Great mod, I realize once you own an offset with a smaller firebox you're kind of committed lol. Perfect example why oversize fireboxes are becoming more popular, and why all my builds include them. It's all the off gases from the wood that causes the temp spikes, an oversized firebox has space for said gases to burn off before reaching the cook chamber, resulting in lower, more even Temps.
That's good to know. Maybe welding another okj firebox on it to extend it would work
Just curious. For the masterbuilt gravity. I have the lss vent mod to close the opening. Is this good for smoking low and slow or would it make less smoke?
I don't have that smoker sorry!
What bad chemicals are coming off the radiator onto the food though? You made the comment about the rubber hose
Do you have a video on how to reversed smoke stack
Hey Steve, you know how to get us thinking! What about a smoke house? Any room in your back yard for building one and cooking in it?
I'd like to but no room!
Another excellent vid! I actually have a new Honda Fit radiator up in the attic that I bought and didn't need and never returned, so maybe I'll install this in my OKJ Highland. THANKS! :-) ...Edit: I'd like to know how much better tasting was the brisket/ribs/whatever - burning straight splits rather than charcoal and splits. THANKS
It's a bit of a difference. Burning with all splits is more flavor.
Great idea 💪
I have an ok joe and I can tell you if you take the charcoal box out it is much easier to control temps
The basket?
@@SmokeTrailsBBQ yes, especially around 200-225 it is much easier for me
I always appreciate experiments and trying new things, I'm a tinkerer myself. However, I need to bust your bubble a bit-the lower temperatures are due to the impeded airflow at the exchange. Small offsets in Europe come with a porous ceramic baffle that serves that exact purpose. If you desire lower temps and longer-lasting fires use full-sized splits on the bottom of the firebox, keep them close together and keep the flames low. While this was obviously a fun experiment I wouldn't get any food near that thing-you don't know where it was made, where and how it was welded, whether it was painted, and so on. Big disclaimer there. As long as you're having fun though, it's all good. BBQ tends to be much less complicated than we sometimes would like it to be. Cheers
No bubble busted at all! When there's no water flow in it the temp goes up like normal, which suggests it's the cold water, not impeded airflow, that is dropping the temps.
@@SmokeTrailsBBQ But what about the chemicals. The video mentions swapping out rubber hoses for metal ones, but are you worried about chemicals coming from other sources? Are you thinking you'll actually use this in the long-term?
That doesn’t make sense to me. While you are going to get a small amount of airflow reduction, the cross-sectional area for flow at this point in the smoker is still considerably larger than both the firebox inlet and the stack. This point in an Oklahoma Joe’s Highland simply is not the bottleneck in the system even with this addition.
And I do understand the aerodynamic effects. The fact is that many systems employ such heat exchangers with very little back pressure. A case in point would be the stacks on ships where exhaust gases are used to preheat combustion air.
Thanks! can you try a pellet mod to an offset and see how well that works?
I did years ago. It's in one of my videos. It runs a steady temp but uses alot of pellets. And still no offset flavor. Not sure it's worth it.
Dude. You are a genius.
I agree with others about trying a closed loop but I'm not sure a pump is needed. You could plum the lines into the side of a steel drum, maybe 20 or 30 gallon, put one fitting on the side of the drum somewhere around 1/3 of the way down from the top of the drum and the other fitting on the side of the drum at the bottom. Hot will move to cold at cycle the water without a pump. Also it saves water.
Now that's some next level thinking!
Dude! Great video. That's where you want to smoke though, just below boiling at 205 to 215 as it won't boil off moisture in the meat. Keep in mind that the boiling point of water that isn't pure is higher than 212F and it also freezes at a point lower than 32F. These properties are known as Colligative properties.
Fun experiment
Thanks man!
Changing the BBQ world one video at a time
For lower temps, lay wood horizontal if you can making a natural draft prevention.
Great idea. Your a smart man 👍
Thanks!
I’ve got the OKJ longhorn which has a smoker are half the size of yours, and an only slightly smaller fire box. The other side of the smoker is the gas grill. I’d need one radiator inside to capture the heat, another outside to cool the water down, and a flow rate adjustment to act as a thermostat. I think. But low and slow temps are a problem!
You have the Longhorn Combo, the actual OKJ Longhorn is bigger than the Highland.
Oh yea the combo. Temp control would be even harder in that
@smoketrailsbbq have you ever used/tested/reviewed a “pit master IQ 110”? I know you’ve made videos about cooking and being able to leave the smoker for long periods to sleep or whatever and wondering if this was ever tested by you or an option…?
Interesting concept! How about adding a thermostat controlled valve and pump that allow different levels of fresh cold and recirculated hot water into the radiator? If the temperature gets too hot, it introduces more cold water. Gets too cold, it shuts off the cold water and pumps from the hot water reservoir allowing you to set a temperature and have the system maintain it. (Edited for clarity)
Came here for the BBQ content, stayed to support a fellow vet. Stay safe out there buddy CM
Thanks man!
Dry erase markers, remarkable 😂. Thank you.
Haha thanks for watching!
Interesting. Have you tried a water pan at the chamber entrance or even in the firebox? Given that water likes to 'steal' energy that may help to lower temps given the same size fire.
This is what I do to control temp in my small offset.
In the chamber yes. In the firebox it just boils off so quickly. A big water pan is probably the cheapest and easiest temp control option. It acts as a heat sync and stabilized temps.
I use my water pan as the radiator.
It works.
The radiators on motorcycles are smaller. Have you considered filling the radiator with distilled water and capping the radiator with no tubes? A small motorcycle radiator would probably allow a higher temp and the larger a lower.. the caps could allow for an easier management as you could be fighting the efficiency of the radiator and you've reached, and exceeded the diminishing return?.. excellent idea. I'll give it a go myself.. I'm also a 10min adder, open lid, close lid, constant battle to keep it at about 260-275.. cheers
Could work!
Wi-Fi controllable flow control valve for remote control, or maybe add an Arduino controller to that to maintain parameters?
You're the mad scientist of BBQ. Very cool. 😊
What about bringing the firebox farther away from the cook chamber? Install in insulated pipe between the two and you can even have a smoke stack in between to help regulate the air transfer. It should provide similar results with two added benefits. No water waste. The smoke stack in the middle would allow you to release dirty smoke before it enters the cook chamber. Of course putting a radiator in this section is also possible.
I could try that for sure. I've thought of doing similar things in the past but as soon as I need to cut large holes, weld, fabricate etc. I think twice about it. This radiator thing only took me an hour to install and I just needed a drill.
That's the thing this guy in the video doesn't understand. You actually want tempestuous fluctuations. That's how you develop all the flavor compound in burning wood. If you're having trouble maintaining a range of low temps then it's all about air flow. Always open your exhaust vent fully, then use your intake vent as your control.
Hey, can I ask why don’t you get a Masterbuilt gravity smoker (charcoal) and use that digital control with wood?? Love to see you cook your briskets on this bbq.
Just not in the budget for me now and too many smokers. Maybe one day.
@@SmokeTrailsBBQthey run sales at Walmart and Costco and seen them down to $299 for masterbuilt 800 and 900 series
This appears to be a stroke of genius. Prediction: this vid has triggered a blizzard of emails and calls at smoker manufacturers r&d departments.
Lol! Not quite
@@SmokeTrailsBBQ Hey don't be so sure! 😀
This is GREAT!
Thanks!
Perfect Draft BBQ
Great video
Thanks Lance!
If you used a bucket and a recirculating pump you could use the heated water and if needed add cooler water. Less water waste.
I subscribed because you are creating really creative bbq content. Love this idea, because of it's originality. I would think that the radiator would block the airflow. Have you experienced any of that? And are you running your firebox completely open for the full cook?
You should consider making your stack larger. I know you got it to 5", but 6" is a lot bigger. That's what I'm using, and that solved the issue of getting the smoker too hot.
Thanks James! No it doesn't block airflow. I run with the door open. Right now the stack diameter is more than enough. I would have done 4 or 4.5 inches if I could do it again.
@@SmokeTrailsBBQ I used to have the same problem, of the cook chamber burning too hot, increasing the stack to 6" solved it. In fact, I find it hard now to get past 280. I'm certain if you increased the diameter that you wouldn't need to use the radiator. What's happening is that chamber is getting so hot because the heat is getting back up. You should consider doing another video of upgrading your stack again. You will be surprised.
Perhaps using a needle valve for your water flow, instead of the quarter turn valve will give you better control, without the need to cut the fins.
Yes my valve is not very precise
What about smoke? It block the smoke?
Nope!
The radiator needs to be be a closed loop with a thermostat maybe connect to to another set of radiators with cooling fans to dump the heat. Then you could just set a temp.
Yes I agree, it needs the water to rotate in at a slightly cooler temp than it came out in basically what you said, a closed loop; like it was designed to do.
That would be cool. I think I'd need a variable speed pump. Or maybe a remote controlled ball valve.
@@SmokeTrailsBBQ I don't think a straight off and on would create that much variability in the heat as long as the was of dumping heat to the environment was efficient enough
Quite remarkable 😊
This dude needs to partner with Mad Scientist BBQ! That would br a wicked video!
I think a pump would be better than using a garden attachment that way the water going through the radiator would already be as cool.
Fuel management for stick burners are always going to be hard I think unless you figure out a way to gravity feed small chunks of wood.
For sure I need to figure out something with a pump
Have you considered a regulator on the outlet of the radiator? Being able to control the outgoing flow of water should allow you to change the efficiency of the heat dissipation without having to alter the radiator itself.
I had a little valve to control the flow but even with a trickle it was too efficient
@@SmokeTrailsBBQ was it on the inlet or outlet? I would think that it would need to be on the outlet, otherwise the rate of flow will remain the same. The volume and pressure would be reduced, but there would still be a steady flow of water. By restricting the outlet you would actually create a bit of back pressure that would cause the water to remain inside the radiator longer, which should greatly reduce efficiency, but could theoretically create the need for a pressure relief valve in case the back pressure became too high.
If any of the joints of the cooler are soldered, you definitely don't want it anywhere near fire. Most likely will contain lead or some sort of toxic bonding material. Would suggest stainless steel tubing coiled going to bucket with pump recycling the water.
I burned it in for a few cooks before cooking anything with it. But yea there's always risk unless it's a food grade stainless steel contraption. Or maybe a coil of copper tubing
Possibly running it in reverse, sealed water sink in the cook chamber to the tranny cooler outside of the smoker with fan blowing air thru the fins?!
5:00 is when you officially became a dad.
Lol yes!
I think the better solution is to buy a better offset smoker! I know that isn't a cheap options but considering how much you BBQ it's the right option.
I have a better offset smoker. Still like tinkering on this one though. Less fuel used.
Cool trick. I came into this problem as well (hence why I am here). My solution right now is to open the 4 different "doors" in different scenarios.
The valve at the top and side to give more or less oxygen to the fire to micro manage heat
The fire lid to avoid thick smoke and give the logs air to combust if the fire goes out
Then I open the main chamber lid when the temperature starts shooting up past 250 (my last resort)
So far this has been pretty successful. I can keep my cook around 200-250 with a fire burning (I use split logs from my grocery store). Although I do have to spend 5 minutes every 20 or so minutes for upkeep. That was why I chose an offset smoker though I suppose lol...
So for "making the radiator less efficient", how come you did not want to use warmer water? You could probably dump water into the same bucket you pull it from then replace the water every few as it starts doing its job less well. You may even not need to replace the water if it cools down fast enough in the bucket from the ambient temperature.
This is a cool idea, but aside from the hose giving off bad stuff, that radiator is probably a little poison factory. I wouldn't cook with that. I do wonder if there is a food safe radiator type product on the market.
Probably could make one out of a copper coil
Are you sure you were in the army
Cuz thats some marine quality drawing right there
What would happen if you used air instead of water? The water through the radiator at the beginning was much too efficient. Air is a lot less efficient and carrying heat away (as you demonstrated with the bags) and so I wonder if blowing air through the radiator would give enough temp reduction to hit the 225 sweet spot.
Good idea to test. I have an air compressor.
Kinda like the tankers used for liquid nitrogen and using the radiators to heat the liquid into gas.
It needs a valve controlled by a simple PID circuit. Then7 you could pretty much set it and forget it. It could even alarm if it's having to reduce the water too much, so you know you had better tend the fire. I wish Thermoworks was an open platform
Exactly what I was thinking
Know where to get a pid controller like that?
@@SmokeTrailsBBQ Give me a couple of days on that one. I have a friend who does this stuff all the time. Partly depends on your level of tech savvy
2nd radiator and pump makes closed system. 2nd radiator vents water heat.
That would be cool
I like the way you think! That head is not just a hat rack!
Thanks Rick!
One might say this is a...pipe dream...(but still wanna try it!)
Haha!
How much
water you use in a 10 hr cook?
Never measured it. Probably alot. But it all went into the grass.
@@SmokeTrailsBBQ Im in Australia. Water is valuable here. Thanks for the great content. having young ones when you did, I can completely relate. Cheers
What about a smaller radiator wouldn't of that worked instead of cutting
A very good experiment.
Thanks man! Appreciate you watching all my vids. I see you!
@@SmokeTrailsBBQ Thank you Steve for the valuable contents of your videos. Most big BBQ channels are about recipes, but they get mundane after a while. OTOH, there is quite alot to learn from your experiments, discoveries and covering new grounds. You introduce ideas that one can follow, tweak and develop upon. Countless examples, such as pulling briskets at lower than the conventional temperature, injecting with gelatin, your comparison on different ways to make pork ribs, and on and on. Please keep them coming.
@@CoolJay77 will do!
Hmm. Interesting. I always thought most flavor happened earlier in the smoke before the meat cap began to harden?
You motivated me to order an Okie Joe Longhorn, mainly 'cuz I like the flex. Got me thinking (before coming across this particular video) what if the lower baffle (in the reverse Flow configuration) was outfitted with a series of water pans placed edge to edge across all of them. I'm thinking stainless steel steam table inserts (nice & heavy, easy to clean, etc.). The mass of water should work to buffer the radiant heat effect that was messing w/ the bottom finish on your brisket comparison cook.
Regarding your heat exchanger idea, you can bury a coil of copper tubing or PEX and use a nearby pond or the earth as your heat sink to keep a closed loop system manageable. Then you could adjust your coolant flow rate to temper your incoming hot air. Only concern would be hot spots on an aluminum finned radiator might suffer in that cook chamber. Just spit-ballin.
Maybe look at using heavy schedule rigid copper or steel if the heat is overwhelming.
I like closed loop idea. If I may, how about having a large tank of water with a submersible pump connected to an temperature controller. if the radiator becomes too efficient it turns off the pump. then when the temp gets
too hot it kicks on the pump.
Not a bad idea. I wonder if inkbird has a controller like that.
@@SmokeTrailsBBQ Inkbird ITC-308 they have a wifi version.. you can monitor remotely! Dad hacks for the win!
Wow very interesting concept. I think the temp controlled fans they sell, like bbq guru, might do the job if you could figure out how to mount it.
Never tried them but would like to
I was thinking of the same with a fire board, would be ideal
I've put 6 pizza oven bricks inside the smoke box of my OKJ... It helps a bit...
Interesting!
Love the concept bro... but pretty silly
It works though!
Second radiator, water pump, and a fan could be the ultimate way to keep this going for longer without constantly running water. Might just need to put a regulator in the hose to control flow.
Just go with Gravity Charcoal Smoker - some folks even use nearly all wood in them.
Heard alot of good things!
first minute in.. describes my oklahoma Joe temps to the exact T..
I'm in
Welcome!
You need a thermostatically controlled mixing valve
Julabo coolers would control temp with a radiator setup.
Love the content! I’m a retired Veteran as well. I got some ideas as well if you’d like to talk? I was a Heavy Equip. Mechanic. Let me know brother.
Wife: “Come inside I need you to help with the baby!”
Dude: “Not right now. I’m adjusting the radiator I installed in the smoker to make it cooler, so that it won’t work as well!”
Wife: 😵💫
Smokin joes on TH-cam did an untrimmed brisket video and it turned out incredible. Would like to see you confirm if this is true.
I did one a few years ago. It was good but some areas were way to fatty th-cam.com/video/RYpCKf55_WQ/w-d-xo.html
Extra fatty or you have to trim fat after cook. If you do manage to get bark on fatty side it will come off with the trim. Meat will be protected from heat and will lesson smoke flavor. What is there to confirm?