I appreciate the comments about unscrupulous contrarians in media. Yeah, corporate media is mostly trash and the US government lies whenever it's convenient. But that doesn't mean the opposite of whatever they say is necessarily true. It's weird seeing people consume that kind of media uncritically, seemingly just because it validates their self-image.
Except, Bad Empanada's example of the Grayzone's defending of Assad during the gas attacks has not stood up to the test of time. Multiple whistleblowers from the OPCW including its former head have come out and said that the OPCW conspired with the US to fabricate the narrative of Assad using chemical weapons on his people.... while he's winning the war. I do like the Grayzone and agree they can be overly contrarian like with China, but they still do good work. Bad Empanada too, I just don't think he's as good with contemporary events as he is with historical events seeing as how he couldn't have accounted for falsified sources.
@@borkingborker5567 umm........actually!!!!!!!?!?!!! It doesn't matter whether he killed people with chemicals or not. His actual body count is higher than any other actor in Syria. The media has played into Assad's hands by claiming that a 'civil war' broke out, and that the only sides are either the Assad regime or Islamist terrorists/"Moderate rebels". They have made ISIS out to be the biggest threat to Syria and completely discard the opposition, the events in Idlib, or Rojava. And don't get me wrong, ISIS are murderous ghouls. But they have sucked all the media oxygen when their body count does not even hold a candle to the 50 years of the fascist Assad regime. I say this as a Syrian dissident who has been against Assad since long before 2011. Please, try to listen to actual people on the ground and grassroots organizations and not GrayZone, which takes advantage of people's anti-US sentiment and lack of foreign policy awareness to turn every mainstream news story into the next Big "WMD" Lie. Wake tf up. Americans believe they're truly the center of the world, and that no other country can possibly have sophisticated propaganda too. You laugh at and shrug off McCarthyist russia-bashing but are equally as deranged when it comes to assuming literally everything the media reports is a lie. Chemical weapons have always been a red herring. For Obama it was a way to pretend to have a moral position but he let down Syrians when he didn't do sh*t about it when it was crossed because of how badly Libyan intervention went, but also because Russia and China vetoed international action.
@@borkingborker5567 notice how I'm avoiding the chemical question all together? I don't care about the American campaign against Assad. History did not start when the west suddenly started paying attention. Syrians have always wanted to live in peace and genuinely desired to have a representative government that doesn't disappear you if you dissent. You may see this as the dumb rosy image of US bringing democracy to the middle east in exchange for oil... That's just reductive. Syrians begged for a change of regime and now have no other choice than to accept American help. He has literally stepped on us just like his dad in order to make an example for generations to come. What do you suppose we do exactly?
Come on! Can you back up anything you said? Transphobic? Of course I have a different vision for the Labor party to some within it they are far from perfect... But I when I try to improve it I do it by attempting to grow the influence of organisations like the ACF etc.... and I try do it without sewing the seeds of apathy in voters when they're the only viable opposition. The difference between labor being elected and the liberals is fucking species going extinct. Do you now understand where my priorities lie? It is beyond simple to give me abstract labels like "centrist". Politics isn't some fashion show or identity to me, the extinction of endemic species is on the table, peoples lives are on the table.
@@BadEmpanada That was a joke at the expense of Westpac... Do you actually know about Labor's climate change policy?? You clearly don't because you're just saying shit with no evidence. Do you understand Kevin Rudd was outed in essentially a coup by US protected sources within the party because he dared suggest a mining tax and didn't think we were the 51st state. And your point about Hawke is? Before him Whitlam got outed by the USA after 3 years, and before that it was 23 years of libs... you think that wouldn't of happened again? The sad thing is the reason Hawke and Keating were able to do so much good and stay in for so long, is because they didn't upset the USA. They got through medicare, put in HUGE environmental protections, brought in superannuation (which was ruined by Howard). As for preferential voting why would I play into the media's technique of sewing the seeds of doubt in potential labor voters especially when there are people in labor to the "left" of the greens. If the current labor party was elected nothing would change? Tell that to the dozens of endemic species going extinct because of Susan Ley. Your channel asinine larping. What do you think you'll ever do to improve the country? You do not live in the real world.
@@BadEmpanada You should probably just stop replying because you're undermining yourself. Your first point doesn't make any sense so I can't respond. Ok no policy or evidence for the second point just an article that is literally about Labor MPs from all factions condemning Joel Fitzgibbon... Secondly I've never defended that man but doing a vid about that is redundant when there are too many atrocities being committed by the party in government. And it would be less effective than me getting the ACF more money which I've actually done... What have you done? As for Trudeau, yeah its painful... but the risk of reversing a carbon tax was too great. And then you just straight out lie... backed by a media company? what? that's news to me! You don't actually any examples of me defending bad people, you're just angry that I choose to talk about the ACF, the liberal party, etc over shitty elements of the labor party... that's pathetic. If we're gonna go into shitting on the aesthetics of each others content... hey at least I don't shiver nervously when talking to the camera. You are a bad person, you care more about your image and philosophy than doing good for the world. Take some time to reflect, and think about how you can do actual good.
@@BadEmpanada @friendlyjordies I think I was the one that asked that question too as I'm a fan of both. As a fan of both, and clearly on the left, I think I speak for a good many of us, that you two should stop the hate between you. Don't need to collab or anything, but in the end, we do have common enemies and ideals that we want in this world. While opinions may differ slightly (to varying degrees), it's not beneficial to bash each other because of these minor differences. I guess this is the problem with leftists... We are our own worst enemies.
Years later and I have no dog in this old fight, but I do have strong opinions on would-be leftists boosting capitalists in the name of "viability". Campaigning for capitalist parties in the name of harm reduction will _always_ leave leftists and leftist ideals subsumed beneath the mainstream liberal din. We just had this again in the US midterms, where of course there is even less distinction between the reigning parties. It seems there are two distinct camps on this issue, and I prefer the one that operates under this theory: "It's better to vote for something you want and not get it than to vote for something you _don't_ want and get it." The alternative (in America) is just endlessly campaigning for the Democrats and constantly apologizing for their refusal to adopt genuine leftist platforms―end of the day, no matter how one justifies it, that makes one a liberal Democrat, a tool useful to the elites, a wrist-wringing pro-capitalist, and an _impedance_ to leftists and socialism's rise
@@friendlyjordies After listening to a lot of Bad Empanada's videos today, it seems he is the embodiment of letting perfect be the enemy of good. Dude is too ideologically pure to ever make any progress.
Even though you seem to not be particularly fond of the USSR, I'm glad to see someone who is like you but doesn't just eat Western propaganda like candy. You have a really good channel, keep it up.
@@BadEmpanada Maoist China was different from the USSR, but I wouldn't say it was worse as you claim. Many things that happened because of the USSR happened in China.
@@Psychedlia98 Is that true though? I've hear like 4 different reasons why the students protested. Some said it was for freedom and democracy, others said it was because of China going capitalist, others saying this and that. Do you have any good sources?
@@leighbelk769 That is kind of untrue. Many people say that Mao killed millions because of the devastating famine in the Great Leap Forward. In actuality, the famine had been caused by bad weather, and since a complete restructuring of agriculture was occuring, it was made worse. It is important to note that this famine was actually not the worse in China's history (numbers are often blown up), that it was not man-made, and that it was the last famine China ever suffered. I should also mention that Stalin's death toll is also bs, but that's a different story.
Empanada seems like he is being excessively humble saying leftist youtubers/streamers as just "entertainers". Collectively, millions of people watch all this content. This channel or Vaush's channel may be insignificant individually, but together they have enormous collective potential. Just think about how gamergate, 4chan and conservative youtubers were succesful in making the alt right such a powerful force. Communication is everything, and the left is way far behind in that race. Everyone of us have a role to play if we are to reverse this tendency.
@@PoggoMcDawggo i had debates with the likes of him in the school playground. Vaush was the type to take his ball away if his team was losing, though i doubt he ever had friends
I think of Vaush and Destiny in the same way I think of professional wrestling. It's theater. It certainly takes some amount of skill. It's also fake and relatively inconsequential. People who fetishize debate may credit Vaush for "deradicalizing" them. And to the extent that their politics are actually borne out in actions, that's a good thing. But I don't think very many people who watch livestream debates actively take part in direct action or even electoral politics. My guess would be that most of them are just bored and need something to listen to, which is fine. It's just not consequential. Of course, professional wrestling is Shakespearean and it takes major athletic prowess to be a wrestler. So, yeah, wrestling is way better.
@@BadEmpanada Yeah, I don't want to downplay the value of lefty youtubers too much. I just think the debate streamer shit needs to be deflated big time. They basically think they're doing god's work and they use that to justify all the shitty things they do.
In regards to what you said about Argentinian people's attitude toward indigenous peoples, i think what you described is mainly for the people of Buenos Aires, here in the northwest region is quite different. Are people less racist? Fuck no !, But because the majority of people is decendant of indigenous people, at least in part, to divide them between "real" an "fake" is kind of pointless. Also depending on where you live and how sheltered you are it's nearly impossible to just ignore their presesnse and to not have an opinion. They are very politicaly active
@@BadEmpanada May I recomend you to try to visit the Amaicha comunity in Tucumán if you can. Their Casique (chief) is an amazing person, he is a lawyer that routinely gives talks about indigenous rights. Also if You like sweet corn make sure to order a humita for lunch, you won't regret it
Guys Vaush purposely plays up a hyper masculine persona because its' appealing to people who aren't progressive already. Expanding the leftist movement (which you should want if you truly care for real change) means gathering those who could be picked up by right wingers. Also its ironic his "gamer" status was evoked because gamergate was a time when many people moved to the right by jumping on the "anti-sjw" bandwagon. I'm confident that Vaush wouldve been able to pick up many of those that unfortunately went to the right. Also Lonely white male gamers isn't a demographic that should be ignored even if it seems morally justified and convenient to do so.
In the long run, this seems like it would, at best, create a very "Fragile" alliance between, say, macho gamerbros who "turn left" because they're 'convinced' by people like Vaush... and the less-hypermasculine, less-macho, gentler leftists who are woke or more sensitive to the concerns of marginalized folks. Like... in theory, maybe it would 'help', but... I dunno what the "long-term utility" of such a strategy really is? Honestly, the type of person who could "be fairly easily swayed" to the anti-SJW movement, let alone alt-right, seems to have the kind of mentality or 'personality' that may only *somewhat* 'stand in solidarity' with the left and 'leftist causes'. Just how "strong" would their commitment to leftist causes be, really? WOULD they 'stand firm' with the Left even in the face of, say, "SJWs" and whatnot... or would they just... eventually 'abandon the Left' once the "political correctness" or "wokeness" became "too suffocating" for them? Would they, eventually, truly 'become better people', as newfound leftists, or would they still be, more-or-less, pretty "assholish" but with a "leftist flavor"? Is the latter *really* someone we want on our side, or could it, perhaps... possibly, say, invite *more tankies* and authoritarian jagoffs, to say the least? Who, at best, may simply be "embarrassing" but, at worst, could be quite 'corrupting' of the Left. That is my big concern with 'strategies' for supposedly "gaining leftist comrades" like what you and Vaush support. While, in the short run, it may help 'expand our numbers', in the long run, it sounds very tenuous. It's not simply about "certain dirtbaggy leftists who 'say the wrong thing' occasionally." Rather, it's about *a mindset and personality type* that, perhaps, is 'less conducive' TO broad-based leftism and only has a very tangential relationship to 'the movement' that could, in theory, be fractured if *assholes on the Right* gave them "enough ammo" to 'go after the Left' with. This is why such a strategy for "gaining converts", imo, seems quite misguided, in the long run. Maybe it would gain a few 'long-term, strong comrades', but... viewing *this* as some sort of "savior of leftist politics" is naive, at best (and, at worst, a subtle "infiltration" attempt to get racists, misogynists, etc., and similar douchebags to "poison the well" of leftist politics and movements). For example, Jason Unruhe, as a major tankie (Maoist who thinks N. Korea is some sort of "socialist paradise", or some shit, and almost never criticizes states like that), is a *major* fuckwit! Sure, he's a leftist but... what does he "contribute" 'to the left', long term, that plenty of OTHER, somewhat "woker" and *more libertarian-leaning* leftists and Marxists *don't already/couldn't already* do?? Sure, he 'turned leftist' from whatever he was prior to that, but it seems his original prickery was still very-much intact.
Also... wasn't Vaush, not too long ago, very much one of those "anti-SJW leftists" himself, including having called-out "SJWs" on Destiny's stream quite a bit? Until he "got woke" a year or 2 ago, supposedly. Now, luckily, he *seems*, hopefully, to be a 'long-term woke leftist' who isn't a *total* douchebag on those particular issues, but... I just hope that, if the Left "gets too PC", at some point, he doesn't just "turn Right" or "go back to anti-SJW liberal" eventually. I harken to what people like the Black Panthers said when they talked about how, rather than "fight capitalism with black capitalism, we'll fight it with socialism." Ergo, in a similar vein, we don't "fight toxic-masculine and offensive bullshit" with... *rarely challenging* said mindsets or behavior on the Left and 'letting it slide' so long as that person is "leftist enough." We fight it by *not promoting shit like toxic masculinity, by being intersectional and not being huge, insensitive douchebags*. If this "loses" a few DIPSHIT potential 'comrades', so be it! In the *long run*, we'll get far more *much more useful comrades* who'll stick around long-term and don't "adulterate" the movement with poisonous bs. I'm not about to encourage some "race to the bottom" for leftism so we can "win the numbers game." If we have to resort to *that*, we've already lost. Possibly lost our souls, esp.
@@Whoo711 I see ur worry but I'm sorry the alternative would be to let these people get consumed by a community that praises their toxicity. And I've seen every one of his streams because I feel like he relates to my personal experiences in my own life. I have very strong opinions about progressivism because of vaush. His optics may seem douchey to those who are use to watching Philosophy tube, or Contrapoints but I know (beyond reasonable doubt) that hes genuinely sympathetic to the left and the cause they fight for. If you think hes a grifter who's just capitalizing off internet blood sports my counter argument would be that he is well learnt and uses his college degree in sociology to advocate for the left. So based off his past I say hes a genuine leftist. I wont stop being an edgy leftist, i like the style. If done real life conversion because of this tactic. We live in a time where some people only respect those who argue aggressively (a point vaush acknowledges and uses as a reason for his debate style) This is indeed a culture war, i want the left to win. Let's not limit our tactics especially when the right is shameless or just lying about everything. Logical analysis of socioeconomic conditions dont win over everyone
first off, vaush's attitude enables shitstains to follow him. For example he constantly makes fun of people's capacity of learning and this one time chat unanimously agreed we argentines are nazis because this one time peron allowed some nazis to flee into my country. I literally got triggered and my entire chest sank when I read that, so I kinda felt how it feels to get generalized hate on a social group you belong to, which joke or not sucks, and it sucks a lot. Similar things happen with edgy trans, racist, misogynist jokes he makes. Being an edgelord and doing shit like this day after day turns you into an asshole you want it or not, that's how nurture works. Vaush has honestly become kind of a piece of shit unfortunately, I mean it got to the point where his girlfriend berated him for making ableist jokes every 5 minutes. Also, he screams at and insults his girlfriend a lot, and while this playfulness is normal in a healthy relationship or with friends it just makes me feel off every time he does it with all the other stuff put into consideration as well. This is what I get from his shitty behaviour on stream ( which let's face it, when you act like that for years it translates into real life as well ). Him having really weird takes like 'protectionism is bad' or 'nuclear power is bad' doesn't bother me, opinions can differ, but the fact he refuses to fix his asshole behaviour is off putting to say the least.
I couldn't agree more about moving the labour party further to the left, there really needs to be a concerted effort to appeal to the working class and try and waken them from this idea that the LNP are on their side and stand for the "battlers" and workers.
"in argentina people ignore the indigenous people exist while in Australia they are more openly racist" LOL i think it works great for Buenos Aires but not so much for provinces where they actially can see (and hate) them, though
I mostly accept your criticism of Vaush. I would argue that he believes himself to ONLY give rhetoric to criticizing capitalism/right wing thought. He has said so several times on his stream Second and last is Vaush definitely makes radicals out of already existing lefties. He talks about and discusses a really great, wide variety, of topics like worker cooperatives, humanitarian crises&imperialism (India and Venezuela come to mind), and how toxic masculinity has effected society, just for example I think you gave a pretty fair criticism but would disagree on these two points
@Jay Blake It's easy not to understand Vaush's appeal if you haven't been on youtube for a long time. I think a lot of us who grew up on youtubers like Amazing Atheist and Dick Coughlan like that old ranty, vulgar style of commentary, and it feels cool to watch a leftist doing it today. I hate the smug "emotionless" edgelord posture of the new youtube "skeptics," and the calm earnestness of most breadtubers while fine gets tiresome after a while.
I'm glad I came round to your channel cos you're like the closest I have to a leftist australian youtube channel. Your video on australian unions is one of my favourites for that sort of reason actually, it gave me a pretty good understanding of a part of my countries history and politics that I had very little knowledge of. Thanks for existing ^-^
That is interesting that you say that about Blumenthal/ The Greyzone. I have caught them saying some pretty suspect things, having some fairly garbage takes, but i wasn't sure if it was just me or if it was really them. Thanks for giving me some clarity.
I thought your criticism of Vaush was unfair. He’s never struck me as trying to be a “thought leader “ or “saviour”. Yes he can be obnoxious, abrasive, and egotistical, but it’s usually in good fun and only at the expense of Right wing reactionaries and Fascists. You’re pretty close with your Friendly Jordies criticism though.
Tate Johnson People call Vaush a reactionary ?!? 🤪
5 ปีที่แล้ว +31
@@zachariahwade8482 believe it or not, ppl say that. If you haven't noticed, some segments of the left are as bad faith as the alt right. And you can see this clearly, especially when people criticise Vaush. Its literally just non arguments based on a personal hatred basically. Vaush almost never says something really controversial or weird or "hot takey". So its mostly just personal drama and dislike of someones personality. Also VERY clearly Vaush makes memes on how he is this Hercules leader of the revolution hyperchad type of character. Its easy to miss it as sincere because he does often sound intentionally sincere when he is debating with someone, in order to sound more powerful or smn. Idk what it is but it works.
Bbbb Gggg Yeah I can understand how his overconfidence and abrasive ness can put some people off but yes, it seems some just don’t understand edgy humour or sarcasm even when it’s mainly aimed at Fascists ffs. Just unbelievable to me that any real anti-Fascist would call Vaush a reactionary.
5 ปีที่แล้ว +13
@@zachariahwade8482 what really puts me down is the type of criticism i notice from content creators i otherwise like. It just makes me pull the Slavoj Zizek ideology meme. Like they dislike Vaush so they kinda just go on to lie and strawman and do all the things that they will criticise the alt right for doing. I still watch content creators who dislike Vaush but i just cant take them as seriously as i did before. Ofc depending on how they respond, thinking that his method is dumb or boring or just disagreeing with some of his politics is completely fine, but genuinely wanting him to fuck off and fail is clearly insane.
On Argentine authors, I highly recommend Cortázar, and Puig is pretty good, too. Sabato seems interesting, but I for some reason was never able to get through El Tunel or Abaddón. They just didn't keep my attention for whatever reason.
Good q&a. I enjoy your work. I don't consider the TH-cam content I watch to be my thought leaders but I respect that you are thoughtful. It's delightful for me to listen to these opinions because of the cultural atmosphere of my home. I can't have a conversation with my neighbors like this so y'all my surrogate red fam. Keep it up. Mucho gracias.
@@BadEmpanada Looking forward to that! The Spanish language films I've seen are mostly really great, and I plan on watching the ones you talked about and will talk about, if at all possible.
I really like your stuff ,really good knowledge pool to pull from,and you do a good job of getting under the right people's skins especially with loss of Michael Brooks. I couldn't make out what your Spanish news source is, youtube's CC is in dutch for this video for some reason Al Base? El Base? Al Bess
It's pretty much the best thing you can say. You just gotta reassure people unfamiliar with the history about Stalin and Mao that their fuck ups and crimes don't negate the success of or need for socialism.
jordies has stated that he likes the greens and independents, the reason he focuses on labor is because his major belief: pragmatism, which lines up with labor given they realize the can't be niche like the greens. In what way is transphobic btw?
To the folks who asked about news sources, I personally like DemocracyNow.org; I've consistently seen them covering topics mainstream news is late to cover or just ignore entirely. They're based in NYC, and mainly focus on American news. But they cover international news fairly well too. I'm happy to take news program suggestions also.
drunkposting so no good zingers or witty things to type just wanna say, i fuggin love u comrade and keep it up!! you are (almost definitely) doing way more for the discoure than u realize. keep it the fuck up, all power to the people.
Oh, Vaush... quite the mixed bag. He's got his good takes. And I appreciate his charisma and rhetorical scrappiness. And I think he's pretty genuine. And he seems like an accessible entry point to lefty thought for people who aren't yet ready for more rigorous material, such as those coming from videogame-shouty-man culture. But at the same time, the dude often seems to be his own worst enemy. I don't think that all the criticism he receives is fair, it often seems like people are quick to assume the absolute worst. At the same time, he really seems to like being controversial for its own sake and tends to pointlessly escalate conflicts. The rhetoric about "fixing" the left (or whatever) is extra weird considering that it seems like he really struggles to get along with most of the online left. I've been very critical, but I actually (mostly) like the guy. I just wish he'd do some self-crit, and learn to give his ego a bit of a rest, especially when interacting with people who have as strong (or stronger) a theoretical foundation as him. "Friends", even critical, annoying friends, can't be dealt with the same way he likes to stomp on teenage fascists.
honestly, the description of vaush here is spot-on. on top of all that, he's annoying. going on about how 'the wokescolds need to be excised from the left'. FUCKING. WHEN. i honestly have yet to hear whether or not he has a fucking plan for defeating the 'wokescolds', and i also have yet to hear how this is going to solve the issue of getting people to cooperate with him and build that coalition he's also talking about, because history has shown repeatedly, that's sectarianism, and it doesn't end well, especially for those claiming to be anarchists. he doesn't explain how it is that defeating the 'wokescolds' is supposed lead to the coalition building. he's sectarian, he's utopian, and worst of all, he's all talk and no action. it's annoying. and saying that these 'wokescolds' are his enemies because he doesn't like being warned about the consequences of his actions, and let's be frank, the 'wokescolds' have TONS more field experience than him in actual coalition building, which is to say that his critics are usually very highly experienced, and also that he has no experience, so we have to wonder whether or not the experience has anything to do with them being 'wokescolds', and he just doesn't know how to deal with actual fucking people. really makes ya think. he's a whiny bitch, acting like he's still entitled to cooperation from others after throwing so many stones because he thinks it's funny. nah, of course he'd rather stay the same, why wouldn't he? his fans enrich him personally to remain the macabre screaming dick that he is
but then i'll hear some dips telling me, "o, but you see, he's introduced so many people to leftist ideas, and such," which really isn't all that special to begin with, but man do i ever feel for the people who were passed the misfortune of being introduced to these really neat "leftist ideas" (like how owning capital is somehow in furtherance of its abolition) along with his frankly disgusting habits. what really makes me feel sad is to think of the possibility that some of them might have rejected him in favor of NazBol to defend the habits he extolls so they could still be miscreants just like him without having to suffer any sense of being their own worst enemy, but they already are. and he's his own worst enemy too
i guess this comes off a bit strongly as me hating vaush. i don't. i hate everything he does, but not him. as for vaush himself, and especially his fans, i pity them
WAIT, YOU LIVE IN ARGENTINA?? I live in Brazil, how would you feel about meeting if by any chance I were to come down there? Our whole CONTINENT is sliding down towards authoritarian ultraliberalism, I think it's high time to coalition build amongst ourselves here in S. America before another Operation Condor happens and we're given ""helicopter rides"" or turned into guinea pigs for U.S-trained torturers
Hey king, just discovered your content, been loving what I see, love that you also challenge a lot of the tankie views that are straight up apologetic of warcrimes. I know this video is old but I wanted to ask about your views on the Labor party. Are there any decent leftist parties here? I've always gone Labor because I've always seen them as the closest thing we have and in the current climate there's only 2 parties that are realistically going to get into power. I've been reading into the Greens and while I love their policies I can't shake the feeling that they're never going to go anywhere and that investing in Labor and trying to move them further left is the better option. Maybe thats just stuff I've absorbed from the media and maybe a bit from friendlyjordies since I'm a fan of his so he's undoubtedly shaped my views and sort of was my introduction to leftist ideas. I think I have since gone further left than him but he was definitely by "gateway" of sorts, converting from a Liberal party boy into a hardline leftist lmao
I also recommend the empanadas from Nápoles vs Tucumán, they make classic Tucumán empanadas baked in clay oven. It is located in the Once neighbourhood
Have you ever heard of ML organistion Politsturm? They had done several investigations on bolivia and historical investigation, could you try to do a collab with them?
Bit late to the party, but I have to say that I think you're a bit harsh on FriendlyJordies. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't intend to defend him too strongly here. I too consider him to be mostly centrist, but have to disagree with your assessment of him. Somewhat. He's done a lot of good by being a visible and vocal critic of the Australian right, promoted unions and class-awareness, and while he could be further left than he is, I strongly suspect that's to avoid alienating a huge chunk of the mainstream audience. He either doesn't know, or wouldn't be willing to admit, if leftist labels apply to him. I wasn't aware of any transphobia on his part, so I went looking and all I can find is people equating his somewhat childish whitewashing of his hero, J. Petershill, that seems to come from genuine ignorance that Peterson is FAR more known for his half-baked political and economic stances, to supporting those stances. He genuinely doesn't seem to know, and while he does diminish some social movements, it's hardly inappropriate to do so when the primary champions of "feminism" in the country's media are clearly using social justice politics disingenuously. So, he opposes the ABC's "feminism" - which is to dismiss the unfairness of a system that allows millionaires and homeless people to exist at the same time, and instead asks why more CEOs aren't women - and asks why they didn't mention the privatisation of the domestic violence hotline (which benefits the economic elite at the expense of women). That seems like a fair point to me, and he's never taken an anti-LGBT position to my knowledge. Am I missing something? And if you dismiss Jordies entirely, then we have a very, very barren landscape for Australian politics indeed. There's no Australian "journalist" or "pundit" willing to utter the words "manufacturing consent" to my knowledge.
Lol Finally actually watched it sorry for requesting a video. Genuinely love your content, currently my favorite left-tube channel. Keep it up and I'll watch whatever the fuck you put out.
Your take on Vaush is so off I'm honestly confused how you got there I swear no one actually watches his stupid videos, they just see like some clip and then they get mad and don't bother engaging, which I mean I get his stupid videos are so long and he's annoying but still.... It's as if we just can't see beyond the fact that he looks and sounds like the people we hate regardless of his actual politics And if this is really a debate about fucking aesthetics as it seems to be, I think it's fucking stupid. We have bigger things to worry about than telling an edgy dude bro defending trans women on the internet that he has to stop being an edgy dude bro if he wants to be part of the club You're still my favorite empanada though
People dont look at his videos close enough! Vaush is so arrogant and condescending, I hate everything from his fake machismo to his phony psychoanalysis of his opponents in debates, and even you seem to realize these behaviors are annoying to some extent. Vaush can be edgy, that is not the problem, the problem is he is teaching young people a deformed and fake version of marxism that is essentially some disgusting hybrid of Yugoslav revisionism and anarchism and he also debates like a right winger such as steven crowder, screaming and shouting and using his favorite buzzwords such as "Tankie", "Bad Faith", "Mentally ill/Lunatic" ect.
@@lychees33 Yeah so? I find the way Mexxie talks annoying and hard to listen to, but I would never make that grounds for an attack against her. Different people have different tastes. You don't have to like him his debate tactics. And he doesn't even really talk about theory, he usually engages with social issues because it's easier to push people left on that than reading them Das Kapital. It's not his focus. I swear people get mad at him over the weirdest shit, it's honestly shameful that the left is so unable to think beyond their immediate Feindbild.
Heeeeey, an Aussie lefty living in Argentina!! Awesome! I'm an Australian citizen, half Argie and ideologically towards left-wing-libertarianism, but a major NIHILIST at heart(Meh...labels, ay?). My dad was lucky to survive the dirty war. Many of his school mates and an ex-girlfriend weren't so lucky and "disappeared" along with the other thousands who "disappeared" into the Rio De La Plata. Had my dad not left Argentina when he did, this comment would never have been written. Awww.... I like Jordie. Dude, he's said in many occasions that he'd vote Greens and I heard him encourage voting for them many times. It would seem that his rationale to advocate Labor is in the camp that it's just more pragmatic and more achievable to get them into office. It's just "vote for anyone but THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT! and anyone they lean towards" to him. It's true though how he never criticizes them for being "Diet Liberal" but again, this may be for practical purposes and as part of his comedic style to extenuate the antagonism towards the Liberals. Maybe not it's just a thought, not attempting to play Jordie apologetics here. "Be not a fanatic of anyone. Hold no heroes" - Me Nine Queens is an awesome film. Darin is an exceptional actor.
@@TheAjRae Why would someone from another channel be in this channel's Subscriber Milestone Q&A vids in the first place? What made you think he was here to beign with?
@@BadEmpanada You're playing coy. I can attest that some opinions are skewed on leftypol. But regarding it's devotion to open discourse and the quest for knowledge it has it's place. It is worth noting that I only make the suggestion because some of your arguments are inline with many users of the site. Akin to two very open users of the site, bat'ko and muke, except you can read.
On a deep dive so sorry for all the recent comments. Anyone who calls BE a tankie has effectively diluted the term to meaninglessness. Back in the day we pretty much only referred to folks like the Grey Zone guys as tankies, and that was in real life. Actually we didn't even call them tankies. I don't think that word was even around in the 90s. Back then instead of posting on the internet, they sold "newspapers".
It the problem with the hard left. They can't compromise to save their campaign and that why the lose so much. Jorides is being strategic, he is playing the Conservatives at their own game, by being the Anti PC loud man he makes the Conservatives who live off that stereotype appear like out of touch elitist. While I'm not entirely in agreement with his politics (Nuclear Power for example) I can't stress how important it is that he, by some metrics, saved Queensland from a far right LNP government in 2020.
He does from a self help sense because all JP does is talk basic self help stuff that has been around for ages. I assumed that he just disagreed with his political stances because they are so closely linked to religion
3:55. I've been living in Buenos Aires for 30 years and I'd never heard of El Secreto del oro. Guess I'll have to check it out sometime! Word of advice: never eat an empanada from the Coto chain of convenience stores, unless you have a death wish. They're the worst empanada possible.
I love Jordies but after I learnt about Labor’s factions, especially the shoppies, I take things with a grain of salt. But does anyone have an example of where he’s been transphobic? I haven’t seen anything.
What? That he's trying to help get a left wing government into power? You can cling to your morals all you want but while Scott Morrison remains in power the progress of the left in Australia will forever remain at a near stand still. If a couple of compromises are needed to get into power then so be it. Let's talk about what direction to move Australia in once Labor is back IN power rather than before it and scare moderates away for a 4th time. And don't give me the crap about how Labor and Liberals are the same because I can give at least 10 reasons why they are not.
@@SormonAusPol Please don't assume my position. I think a Labor govt would be far better than more of the Libs and to that end I'll side with Jordies, but I do wish we had more people pushing a little further left in this country.
@@spootot I agree, my channel is just political history (Meaning I know all to well how badly Labor does at elections). But I am thinking of going partisan as the next election approach because we cannot allow Morrison another term to screw up our nation.
is there more on friendlyjordies transphobia? links/videos? has that changed in the last 4 years? not doubting. i really never heard of him prior to the fire bombing.
Edgy gamers aren't a niche bro, the right knew that long before you and that's why all these huge anti sjws tend to be gamers, and they are still dominating the gamer space because of people like you.(sorry if this is in bad form ,you should still get my points)
I really like Vaush as I think we need a lot more debaters and people who can upload daily as a way of combating people like Sargon, NoBS, and many shitty anti-SJW gamers. Especially given Destiny never got breadpilled. I’m eager to see the Knowing Better Columbus response, I saw a smaller channel do a great response a few days back so I cannot wait to see your take.
Stalin and Mao helped build systems that have undeniably uplifted billions of lives. Vaush is a bourgeois liberal who calls all actual socialists "tankies" because they support real-world success rather than eternally pure ideas that have never once worked and which Vaush isn't even actively _trying_ to make work, either
That relief when you echo my exact feelings on Stalin/Mao. Phew 👍 (Edit: context - I've been doing some irl arguing with a hardcore tankie recently and it's been getting me down.)
"What kind of leftist would you describe yourself as"
*Camera zoom*
Bearded
I believe the most correct answer to this is always, "I am a Marxist of the Grouch variety".
I'd say he's Frankfortian, with Trotskyst leaning.
He is an anarco-trotsky-marx-communist with lenninist teaching
Tankie👍
@@Emel_unlegithope so
I appreciate the comments about unscrupulous contrarians in media. Yeah, corporate media is mostly trash and the US government lies whenever it's convenient. But that doesn't mean the opposite of whatever they say is necessarily true. It's weird seeing people consume that kind of media uncritically, seemingly just because it validates their self-image.
Except, Bad Empanada's example of the Grayzone's defending of Assad during the gas attacks has not stood up to the test of time. Multiple whistleblowers from the OPCW including its former head have come out and said that the OPCW conspired with the US to fabricate the narrative of Assad using chemical weapons on his people.... while he's winning the war.
I do like the Grayzone and agree they can be overly contrarian like with China, but they still do good work. Bad Empanada too, I just don't think he's as good with contemporary events as he is with historical events seeing as how he couldn't have accounted for falsified sources.
@@borkingborker5567 umm........actually!!!!!!!?!?!!!
It doesn't matter whether he killed people with chemicals or not. His actual body count is higher than any other actor in Syria. The media has played into Assad's hands by claiming that a 'civil war' broke out, and that the only sides are either the Assad regime or Islamist terrorists/"Moderate rebels". They have made ISIS out to be the biggest threat to Syria and completely discard the opposition, the events in Idlib, or Rojava. And don't get me wrong, ISIS are murderous ghouls. But they have sucked all the media oxygen when their body count does not even hold a candle to the 50 years of the fascist Assad regime. I say this as a Syrian dissident who has been against Assad since long before 2011.
Please, try to listen to actual people on the ground and grassroots organizations and not GrayZone, which takes advantage of people's anti-US sentiment and lack of foreign policy awareness to turn every mainstream news story into the next Big "WMD" Lie. Wake tf up. Americans believe they're truly the center of the world, and that no other country can possibly have sophisticated propaganda too. You laugh at and shrug off McCarthyist russia-bashing but are equally as deranged when it comes to assuming literally everything the media reports is a lie.
Chemical weapons have always been a red herring. For Obama it was a way to pretend to have a moral position but he let down Syrians when he didn't do sh*t about it when it was crossed because of how badly Libyan intervention went, but also because Russia and China vetoed international action.
@@borkingborker5567 notice how I'm avoiding the chemical question all together? I don't care about the American campaign against Assad. History did not start when the west suddenly started paying attention. Syrians have always wanted to live in peace and genuinely desired to have a representative government that doesn't disappear you if you dissent.
You may see this as the dumb rosy image of US bringing democracy to the middle east in exchange for oil... That's just reductive. Syrians begged for a change of regime and now have no other choice than to accept American help. He has literally stepped on us just like his dad in order to make an example for generations to come. What do you suppose we do exactly?
@@borkingborker5567Assad did gaz the Syrian people, that's an objective fact
Did I miss it? Fuck I missed it.
Well, greetings from Chile, we are in a "situation" here. Very fun stuff, good for cardio
VE PartyLikeIts1867 ripp
VE PartyLikeIts1867 solidarity comrade
Guess there’s not much to say but good luck and solidarity
Wena no soy el único
Not anymore! Your stock market is going down.
This was such a good Q and A! Killing it as always, BadEmpanada
If you mean killing braincells, then yeah, he's killing it!
@@notfunnydidntlaugh8621 Average Wendigoon fan’s attempt at repartee
@@notfunnydidntlaugh8621 You mean you don't have any braincells and you can't pay attention?
@@Hakim-td8wn I like wendigoon :(
BadEmpanada is a hot couch guy confirmed.
r/hotcouch
Come on! Can you back up anything you said? Transphobic? Of course I have a different vision for the Labor party to some within it they are far from perfect... But I when I try to improve it I do it by attempting to grow the influence of organisations like the ACF etc.... and I try do it without sewing the seeds of apathy in voters when they're the only viable opposition. The difference between labor being elected and the liberals is fucking species going extinct. Do you now understand where my priorities lie? It is beyond simple to give me abstract labels like "centrist". Politics isn't some fashion show or identity to me, the extinction of endemic species is on the table, peoples lives are on the table.
@@BadEmpanada That was a joke at the expense of Westpac... Do you actually know about Labor's climate change policy?? You clearly don't because you're just saying shit with no evidence. Do you understand Kevin Rudd was outed in essentially a coup by US protected sources within the party because he dared suggest a mining tax and didn't think we were the 51st state. And your point about Hawke is? Before him Whitlam got outed by the USA after 3 years, and before that it was 23 years of libs... you think that wouldn't of happened again? The sad thing is the reason Hawke and Keating were able to do so much good and stay in for so long, is because they didn't upset the USA. They got through medicare, put in HUGE environmental protections, brought in superannuation (which was ruined by Howard). As for preferential voting why would I play into the media's technique of sewing the seeds of doubt in potential labor voters especially when there are people in labor to the "left" of the greens. If the current labor party was elected nothing would change? Tell that to the dozens of endemic species going extinct because of Susan Ley. Your channel asinine larping. What do you think you'll ever do to improve the country? You do not live in the real world.
@@BadEmpanada You should probably just stop replying because you're undermining yourself. Your first point doesn't make any sense so I can't respond. Ok no policy or evidence for the second point just an article that is literally about Labor MPs from all factions condemning Joel Fitzgibbon... Secondly I've never defended that man but doing a vid about that is redundant when there are too many atrocities being committed by the party in government. And it would be less effective than me getting the ACF more money which I've actually done... What have you done? As for Trudeau, yeah its painful... but the risk of reversing a carbon tax was too great. And then you just straight out lie... backed by a media company? what? that's news to me! You don't actually any examples of me defending bad people, you're just angry that I choose to talk about the ACF, the liberal party, etc over shitty elements of the labor party... that's pathetic. If we're gonna go into shitting on the aesthetics of each others content... hey at least I don't shiver nervously when talking to the camera. You are a bad person, you care more about your image and philosophy than doing good for the world. Take some time to reflect, and think about how you can do actual good.
@@BadEmpanada @friendlyjordies I think I was the one that asked that question too as I'm a fan of both. As a fan of both, and clearly on the left, I think I speak for a good many of us, that you two should stop the hate between you. Don't need to collab or anything, but in the end, we do have common enemies and ideals that we want in this world. While opinions may differ slightly (to varying degrees), it's not beneficial to bash each other because of these minor differences.
I guess this is the problem with leftists... We are our own worst enemies.
Years later and I have no dog in this old fight, but I do have strong opinions on would-be leftists boosting capitalists in the name of "viability". Campaigning for capitalist parties in the name of harm reduction will _always_ leave leftists and leftist ideals subsumed beneath the mainstream liberal din. We just had this again in the US midterms, where of course there is even less distinction between the reigning parties.
It seems there are two distinct camps on this issue, and I prefer the one that operates under this theory: "It's better to vote for something you want and not get it than to vote for something you _don't_ want and get it." The alternative (in America) is just endlessly campaigning for the Democrats and constantly apologizing for their refusal to adopt genuine leftist platforms―end of the day, no matter how one justifies it, that makes one a liberal Democrat, a tool useful to the elites, a wrist-wringing pro-capitalist, and an _impedance_ to leftists and socialism's rise
@@friendlyjordies After listening to a lot of Bad Empanada's videos today, it seems he is the embodiment of letting perfect be the enemy of good. Dude is too ideologically pure to ever make any progress.
Even though you seem to not be particularly fond of the USSR, I'm glad to see someone who is like you but doesn't just eat Western propaganda like candy. You have a really good channel, keep it up.
@@BadEmpanada I agree, but that was mostly because China was a shit hole. Mao himself was pretty cool by me though, but I don't want to argue.
@@BadEmpanada Maoist China was different from the USSR, but I wouldn't say it was worse as you claim. Many things that happened because of the USSR happened in China.
@@Psychedlia98 Is that true though? I've hear like 4 different reasons why the students protested. Some said it was for freedom and democracy, others said it was because of China going capitalist, others saying this and that. Do you have any good sources?
Thomas J. Didn’t Mao kill more than Stalin?
@@leighbelk769 That is kind of untrue. Many people say that Mao killed millions because of the devastating famine in the Great Leap Forward. In actuality, the famine had been caused by bad weather, and since a complete restructuring of agriculture was occuring, it was made worse. It is important to note that this famine was actually not the worse in China's history (numbers are often blown up), that it was not man-made, and that it was the last famine China ever suffered. I should also mention that Stalin's death toll is also bs, but that's a different story.
Thanks for supporting Rojava. I am from Kurdistan Region and I really like your content.
Empanada seems like he is being excessively humble saying leftist youtubers/streamers as just "entertainers". Collectively, millions of people watch all this content. This channel or Vaush's channel may be insignificant individually, but together they have enormous collective potential. Just think about how gamergate, 4chan and conservative youtubers were succesful in making the alt right such a powerful force.
Communication is everything, and the left is way far behind in that race. Everyone of us have a role to play if we are to reverse this tendency.
Impossible to organise vaush. Hes a spoilt child who screams when he hears opposing point of view.
@@keithskegwin Careful. Otherwise he'll deepthroat his mic and demand you debate him! The horror!
@@PoggoMcDawggo i had debates with the likes of him in the school playground. Vaush was the type to take his ball away if his team was losing, though i doubt he ever had friends
@@keithskegwin Any debates where we had been on the receiving end recently? Just curious as he seems pretty clever.
@@14DANESSJ watch him again. Shouting over people and making noises like you're in pain is not winning an argument.
I think of Vaush and Destiny in the same way I think of professional wrestling. It's theater. It certainly takes some amount of skill. It's also fake and relatively inconsequential. People who fetishize debate may credit Vaush for "deradicalizing" them. And to the extent that their politics are actually borne out in actions, that's a good thing. But I don't think very many people who watch livestream debates actively take part in direct action or even electoral politics. My guess would be that most of them are just bored and need something to listen to, which is fine. It's just not consequential.
Of course, professional wrestling is Shakespearean and it takes major athletic prowess to be a wrestler. So, yeah, wrestling is way better.
@@BadEmpanada Yeah, I don't want to downplay the value of lefty youtubers too much. I just think the debate streamer shit needs to be deflated big time. They basically think they're doing god's work and they use that to justify all the shitty things they do.
@@TheBreadB calm down lmao
In regards to what you said about Argentinian people's attitude toward indigenous peoples, i think what you described is mainly for the people of Buenos Aires, here in the northwest region is quite different. Are people less racist? Fuck no !, But because the majority of people is decendant of indigenous people, at least in part, to divide them between "real" an "fake" is kind of pointless. Also depending on where you live and how sheltered you are it's nearly impossible to just ignore their presesnse and to not have an opinion. They are very politicaly active
@@BadEmpanada May I recomend you to try to visit the Amaicha comunity in Tucumán if you can. Their Casique (chief) is an amazing person, he is a lawyer that routinely gives talks about indigenous rights.
Also if You like sweet corn make sure to order a humita for lunch, you won't regret it
Guys Vaush purposely plays up a hyper masculine persona because its' appealing to people who aren't progressive already.
Expanding the leftist movement (which you should want if you truly care for real change) means gathering those who could be picked up by right wingers. Also its ironic his "gamer" status was evoked because gamergate was a time when many people moved to the right by jumping on the "anti-sjw" bandwagon. I'm confident that Vaush wouldve been able to pick up many of those that unfortunately went to the right.
Also Lonely white male gamers isn't a demographic that should be ignored even if it seems morally justified and convenient to do so.
In the long run, this seems like it would, at best, create a very "Fragile" alliance between, say, macho gamerbros who "turn left" because they're 'convinced' by people like Vaush... and the less-hypermasculine, less-macho, gentler leftists who are woke or more sensitive to the concerns of marginalized folks. Like... in theory, maybe it would 'help', but... I dunno what the "long-term utility" of such a strategy really is?
Honestly, the type of person who could "be fairly easily swayed" to the anti-SJW movement, let alone alt-right, seems to have the kind of mentality or 'personality' that may only *somewhat* 'stand in solidarity' with the left and 'leftist causes'. Just how "strong" would their commitment to leftist causes be, really? WOULD they 'stand firm' with the Left even in the face of, say, "SJWs" and whatnot... or would they just... eventually 'abandon the Left' once the "political correctness" or "wokeness" became "too suffocating" for them? Would they, eventually, truly 'become better people', as newfound leftists, or would they still be, more-or-less, pretty "assholish" but with a "leftist flavor"? Is the latter *really* someone we want on our side, or could it, perhaps... possibly, say, invite *more tankies* and authoritarian jagoffs, to say the least? Who, at best, may simply be "embarrassing" but, at worst, could be quite 'corrupting' of the Left.
That is my big concern with 'strategies' for supposedly "gaining leftist comrades" like what you and Vaush support. While, in the short run, it may help 'expand our numbers', in the long run, it sounds very tenuous. It's not simply about "certain dirtbaggy leftists who 'say the wrong thing' occasionally." Rather, it's about *a mindset and personality type* that, perhaps, is 'less conducive' TO broad-based leftism and only has a very tangential relationship to 'the movement' that could, in theory, be fractured if *assholes on the Right* gave them "enough ammo" to 'go after the Left' with.
This is why such a strategy for "gaining converts", imo, seems quite misguided, in the long run. Maybe it would gain a few 'long-term, strong comrades', but... viewing *this* as some sort of "savior of leftist politics" is naive, at best (and, at worst, a subtle "infiltration" attempt to get racists, misogynists, etc., and similar douchebags to "poison the well" of leftist politics and movements).
For example, Jason Unruhe, as a major tankie (Maoist who thinks N. Korea is some sort of "socialist paradise", or some shit, and almost never criticizes states like that), is a *major* fuckwit! Sure, he's a leftist but... what does he "contribute" 'to the left', long term, that plenty of OTHER, somewhat "woker" and *more libertarian-leaning* leftists and Marxists *don't already/couldn't already* do?? Sure, he 'turned leftist' from whatever he was prior to that, but it seems his original prickery was still very-much intact.
Also... wasn't Vaush, not too long ago, very much one of those "anti-SJW leftists" himself, including having called-out "SJWs" on Destiny's stream quite a bit? Until he "got woke" a year or 2 ago, supposedly. Now, luckily, he *seems*, hopefully, to be a 'long-term woke leftist' who isn't a *total* douchebag on those particular issues, but... I just hope that, if the Left "gets too PC", at some point, he doesn't just "turn Right" or "go back to anti-SJW liberal" eventually.
I harken to what people like the Black Panthers said when they talked about how, rather than "fight capitalism with black capitalism, we'll fight it with socialism." Ergo, in a similar vein, we don't "fight toxic-masculine and offensive bullshit" with... *rarely challenging* said mindsets or behavior on the Left and 'letting it slide' so long as that person is "leftist enough." We fight it by *not promoting shit like toxic masculinity, by being intersectional and not being huge, insensitive douchebags*. If this "loses" a few DIPSHIT potential 'comrades', so be it!
In the *long run*, we'll get far more *much more useful comrades* who'll stick around long-term and don't "adulterate" the movement with poisonous bs. I'm not about to encourage some "race to the bottom" for leftism so we can "win the numbers game." If we have to resort to *that*, we've already lost. Possibly lost our souls, esp.
@@Whoo711 I see ur worry but I'm sorry the alternative would be to let these people get consumed by a community that praises their toxicity. And I've seen every one of his streams because I feel like he relates to my personal experiences in my own life. I have very strong opinions about progressivism because of vaush. His optics may seem douchey to those who are use to watching Philosophy tube, or Contrapoints but I know (beyond reasonable doubt) that hes genuinely sympathetic to the left and the cause they fight for.
If you think hes a grifter who's just capitalizing off internet blood sports my counter argument would be that he is well learnt and uses his college degree in sociology to advocate for the left. So based off his past I say hes a genuine leftist.
I wont stop being an edgy leftist, i like the style. If done real life conversion because of this tactic. We live in a time where some people only respect those who argue aggressively (a point vaush acknowledges and uses as a reason for his debate style)
This is indeed a culture war, i want the left to win. Let's not limit our tactics especially when the right is shameless or just lying about everything.
Logical analysis of socioeconomic conditions dont win over everyone
to hell with the vaush cultists
first off, vaush's attitude enables shitstains to follow him. For example he constantly makes fun of people's capacity of learning and this one time chat unanimously agreed we argentines are nazis because this one time peron allowed some nazis to flee into my country. I literally got triggered and my entire chest sank when I read that, so I kinda felt how it feels to get generalized hate on a social group you belong to, which joke or not sucks, and it sucks a lot.
Similar things happen with edgy trans, racist, misogynist jokes he makes. Being an edgelord and doing shit like this day after day turns you into an asshole you want it or not, that's how nurture works. Vaush has honestly become kind of a piece of shit unfortunately, I mean it got to the point where his girlfriend berated him for making ableist jokes every 5 minutes. Also, he screams at and insults his girlfriend a lot, and while this playfulness is normal in a healthy relationship or with friends it just makes me feel off every time he does it with all the other stuff put into consideration as well.
This is what I get from his shitty behaviour on stream ( which let's face it, when you act like that for years it translates into real life as well ). Him having really weird takes like 'protectionism is bad' or 'nuclear power is bad' doesn't bother me, opinions can differ, but the fact he refuses to fix his asshole behaviour is off putting to say the least.
I couldn't agree more about moving the labour party further to the left, there really needs to be a concerted effort to appeal to the working class and try and waken them from this idea that the LNP are on their side and stand for the "battlers" and workers.
"in argentina people ignore the indigenous people exist while in Australia they are more openly racist" LOL
i think it works great for Buenos Aires but not so much for provinces where they actially can see (and hate) them, though
Is all of Patagonia mostly indigenous? Apparently at least the indigenous peoples there are mostly being left alone, which would be good.
@@red-baitingswine8816 Nope. That's more of a northern thing.
I mostly accept your criticism of Vaush. I would argue that he believes himself to ONLY give rhetoric to criticizing capitalism/right wing thought. He has said so several times on his stream
Second and last is Vaush definitely makes radicals out of already existing lefties. He talks about and discusses a really great, wide variety, of topics like worker cooperatives, humanitarian crises&imperialism (India and Venezuela come to mind), and how toxic masculinity has effected society, just for example
I think you gave a pretty fair criticism but would disagree on these two points
@Jay Blake It's easy not to understand Vaush's appeal if you haven't been on youtube for a long time. I think a lot of us who grew up on youtubers like Amazing Atheist and Dick Coughlan like that old ranty, vulgar style of commentary, and it feels cool to watch a leftist doing it today. I hate the smug "emotionless" edgelord posture of the new youtube "skeptics," and the calm earnestness of most breadtubers while fine gets tiresome after a while.
@@nathandrake5544
Maybe watch Suris
@@lexort4204 Thanks for the recommendation.
@@nathandrake5544
Yup NP bud
Jay Blake For me it was through watching him that a lot of leftist arguments finally clicked.
How couldn't Che be one of your favorite Argentine thinkers?
Ché should be everyone's favorite Argentine thinkers.
Very true re: friendlyjordies, his silence on Labour since the election has been deafening.
infinitejesticle he’s just as bad as Van Badham. Rusted on Laborites to the end.
I'm glad I came round to your channel cos you're like the closest I have to a leftist australian youtube channel. Your video on australian unions is one of my favourites for that sort of reason actually, it gave me a pretty good understanding of a part of my countries history and politics that I had very little knowledge of. Thanks for existing ^-^
That is interesting that you say that about Blumenthal/ The Greyzone. I have caught them saying some pretty suspect things, having some fairly garbage takes, but i wasn't sure if it was just me or if it was really them. Thanks for giving me some clarity.
I’m so sad I’m going to have to be at work when this goes live
interesting Stalin/Mao take. Keep up the great work comrade!
I thought your criticism of Vaush was unfair. He’s never struck me as trying to be a “thought leader “ or “saviour”. Yes he can be obnoxious, abrasive, and egotistical, but it’s usually in good fun and only at the expense of Right wing reactionaries and Fascists.
You’re pretty close with your Friendly Jordies criticism though.
Tate Johnson
People call Vaush a reactionary ?!? 🤪
@@zachariahwade8482 believe it or not, ppl say that. If you haven't noticed, some segments of the left are as bad faith as the alt right. And you can see this clearly, especially when people criticise Vaush. Its literally just non arguments based on a personal hatred basically. Vaush almost never says something really controversial or weird or "hot takey". So its mostly just personal drama and dislike of someones personality.
Also VERY clearly Vaush makes memes on how he is this Hercules leader of the revolution hyperchad type of character. Its easy to miss it as sincere because he does often sound intentionally sincere when he is debating with someone, in order to sound more powerful or smn. Idk what it is but it works.
Bbbb Gggg
Yeah I can understand how his overconfidence and abrasive ness can put some people off but yes, it seems some just don’t understand edgy humour or sarcasm even when it’s mainly aimed at Fascists ffs. Just unbelievable to me that any real anti-Fascist would call Vaush a reactionary.
@@zachariahwade8482 what really puts me down is the type of criticism i notice from content creators i otherwise like. It just makes me pull the Slavoj Zizek ideology meme. Like they dislike Vaush so they kinda just go on to lie and strawman and do all the things that they will criticise the alt right for doing. I still watch content creators who dislike Vaush but i just cant take them as seriously as i did before. Ofc depending on how they respond, thinking that his method is dumb or boring or just disagreeing with some of his politics is completely fine, but genuinely wanting him to fuck off and fail is clearly insane.
Bbbb Gggg
Absolutely !! Empanada does great work but his Vaush take and some of the comments here are real headscratchers
On Argentine authors, I highly recommend Cortázar, and Puig is pretty good, too. Sabato seems interesting, but I for some reason was never able to get through El Tunel or Abaddón. They just didn't keep my attention for whatever reason.
really looking forward to your response video!!! the longer the better for me, though I may be a bit of an outlier
Your videos are amazing, and i hope you get 100k more subscribers soon!
Thanks for the take on indigenous peoples
0:01 Bad Empanada jumpscare 😱😱😱
Would you consider creating a letterboxd account and making a list of important Argentinian films?
Good q&a. I enjoy your work. I don't consider the TH-cam content I watch to be my thought leaders but I respect that you are thoughtful. It's delightful for me to listen to these opinions because of the cultural atmosphere of my home. I can't have a conversation with my neighbors like this so y'all my surrogate red fam. Keep it up. Mucho gracias.
Just found this channel very recently
Fantastic work and attitude in general - working my way through videos now. Well done!
I am SUPER looking forward to the Knowing Better response. That guy fucking infuriates me.
Cheers my guy, good luck!
I know you said you wouldn't do videos on things people asked you to do videos on, but a video on an Argentinian film would be great.
Oh, at the end of the video you said you would! Yas!
@@BadEmpanada Looking forward to that! The Spanish language films I've seen are mostly really great, and I plan on watching the ones you talked about and will talk about, if at all possible.
I really like your stuff ,really good knowledge pool to pull from,and you do a good job of getting under the right people's skins especially with loss of Michael Brooks.
I couldn't make out what your Spanish news source is, youtube's CC is in dutch for this video for some reason
Al Base? El Base? Al Bess
El país
That's the most milquetoast take on Stalin and Mao a leftist could possibly have...
It's the same as mine lol
It's pronounced milk toast
Microsoft Word Technical Support lmao
It's pretty much the best thing you can say. You just gotta reassure people unfamiliar with the history about Stalin and Mao that their fuck ups and crimes don't negate the success of or need for socialism.
@@TheLastSliceOfPie "fuck up and crimes" lmfao that itself is the western propoganda you guys pretend to hate
@@zurdddtk3025 pretend to hate! They pretend to hate it
jordies has stated that he likes the greens and independents, the reason he focuses on labor is because his major belief: pragmatism, which lines up with labor given they realize the can't be niche like the greens. In what way is transphobic btw?
Congrats on the sub count, BE! You know I love you're work, comrade, keep it coming, whatever it is.
Bad Empanada spilling all the tea. omfg.
To the folks who asked about news sources, I personally like DemocracyNow.org; I've consistently seen them covering topics mainstream news is late to cover or just ignore entirely. They're based in NYC, and mainly focus on American news. But they cover international news fairly well too. I'm happy to take news program suggestions also.
drunkposting so no good zingers or witty things to type just wanna say, i fuggin love u comrade and keep it up!! you are (almost definitely) doing way more for the discoure than u realize. keep it the fuck up, all power to the people.
keep speaking truth brother.
Oh, Vaush... quite the mixed bag. He's got his good takes. And I appreciate his charisma and rhetorical scrappiness. And I think he's pretty genuine. And he seems like an accessible entry point to lefty thought for people who aren't yet ready for more rigorous material, such as those coming from videogame-shouty-man culture. But at the same time, the dude often seems to be his own worst enemy. I don't think that all the criticism he receives is fair, it often seems like people are quick to assume the absolute worst. At the same time, he really seems to like being controversial for its own sake and tends to pointlessly escalate conflicts. The rhetoric about "fixing" the left (or whatever) is extra weird considering that it seems like he really struggles to get along with most of the online left. I've been very critical, but I actually (mostly) like the guy. I just wish he'd do some self-crit, and learn to give his ego a bit of a rest, especially when interacting with people who have as strong (or stronger) a theoretical foundation as him. "Friends", even critical, annoying friends, can't be dealt with the same way he likes to stomp on teenage fascists.
honestly, the description of vaush here is spot-on.
on top of all that, he's annoying.
going on about how 'the wokescolds need to be excised from the left'.
FUCKING.
WHEN.
i honestly have yet to hear whether or not he has a fucking plan for defeating the 'wokescolds', and i also have yet to hear how this is going to solve the issue of getting people to cooperate with him and build that coalition he's also talking about, because history has shown repeatedly, that's sectarianism, and it doesn't end well, especially for those claiming to be anarchists.
he doesn't explain how it is that defeating the 'wokescolds' is supposed lead to the coalition building.
he's sectarian, he's utopian, and worst of all, he's all talk and no action.
it's annoying.
and saying that these 'wokescolds' are his enemies because he doesn't like being warned about the consequences of his actions, and let's be frank, the 'wokescolds' have TONS more field experience than him in actual coalition building, which is to say that his critics are usually very highly experienced, and also that he has no experience, so we have to wonder whether or not the experience has anything to do with them being 'wokescolds', and he just doesn't know how to deal with actual fucking people. really makes ya think.
he's a whiny bitch, acting like he's still entitled to cooperation from others after throwing so many stones because he thinks it's funny.
nah, of course he'd rather stay the same, why wouldn't he?
his fans enrich him personally to remain the macabre screaming dick that he is
but then i'll hear some dips telling me, "o, but you see, he's introduced so many people to leftist ideas, and such," which really isn't all that special to begin with, but man do i ever feel for the people who were passed the misfortune of being introduced to these really neat "leftist ideas" (like how owning capital is somehow in furtherance of its abolition) along with his frankly disgusting habits.
what really makes me feel sad is to think of the possibility that some of them might have rejected him in favor of NazBol to defend the habits he extolls so they could still be miscreants just like him without having to suffer any sense of being their own worst enemy, but they already are.
and he's his own worst enemy too
besides, what are these new leftos even doing?
watching his streams, occasionally bickering with him and amongst themselves?
should i be scared?
i guess this comes off a bit strongly as me hating vaush.
i don't.
i hate everything he does, but not him.
as for vaush himself, and especially his fans, i pity them
WAIT, YOU LIVE IN ARGENTINA?? I live in Brazil, how would you feel about meeting if by any chance I were to come down there? Our whole CONTINENT is sliding down towards authoritarian ultraliberalism, I think it's high time to coalition build amongst ourselves here in S. America before another Operation Condor happens and we're given ""helicopter rides"" or turned into guinea pigs for U.S-trained torturers
Hey king, just discovered your content, been loving what I see, love that you also challenge a lot of the tankie views that are straight up apologetic of warcrimes. I know this video is old but I wanted to ask about your views on the Labor party.
Are there any decent leftist parties here? I've always gone Labor because I've always seen them as the closest thing we have and in the current climate there's only 2 parties that are realistically going to get into power.
I've been reading into the Greens and while I love their policies I can't shake the feeling that they're never going to go anywhere and that investing in Labor and trying to move them further left is the better option. Maybe thats just stuff I've absorbed from the media and maybe a bit from friendlyjordies since I'm a fan of his so he's undoubtedly shaped my views and sort of was my introduction to leftist ideas. I think I have since gone further left than him but he was definitely by "gateway" of sorts, converting from a Liberal party boy into a hardline leftist lmao
Great answers BE - especially 'grey zone' jounalism critique :P
Can't wait for the Knowing Better Response! Keep up the great work Comrade!
Dude. There's telesur. The Real News. The Gray Zone. There are ground breaking blogs too.
I also recommend the empanadas from Nápoles vs Tucumán, they make classic Tucumán empanadas baked in clay oven. It is located in the Once neighbourhood
The Prestige is one of my favorite films as well, and poses some interesting questions about consciousness with the machine at the end.
You should become friends with my brother. He’s a Peruvian leftist living in Argentina :)
Have you ever heard of ML organistion Politsturm? They had done several investigations on bolivia and historical investigation, could you try to do a collab with them?
As a more tankie like guy. I love the respect that you, at least seem to have. Love your channel already. By the way i'm from Brazil.
Bit late to the party, but I have to say that I think you're a bit harsh on FriendlyJordies. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't intend to defend him too strongly here. I too consider him to be mostly centrist, but have to disagree with your assessment of him. Somewhat. He's done a lot of good by being a visible and vocal critic of the Australian right, promoted unions and class-awareness, and while he could be further left than he is, I strongly suspect that's to avoid alienating a huge chunk of the mainstream audience. He either doesn't know, or wouldn't be willing to admit, if leftist labels apply to him.
I wasn't aware of any transphobia on his part, so I went looking and all I can find is people equating his somewhat childish whitewashing of his hero, J. Petershill, that seems to come from genuine ignorance that Peterson is FAR more known for his half-baked political and economic stances, to supporting those stances. He genuinely doesn't seem to know, and while he does diminish some social movements, it's hardly inappropriate to do so when the primary champions of "feminism" in the country's media are clearly using social justice politics disingenuously. So, he opposes the ABC's "feminism" - which is to dismiss the unfairness of a system that allows millionaires and homeless people to exist at the same time, and instead asks why more CEOs aren't women - and asks why they didn't mention the privatisation of the domestic violence hotline (which benefits the economic elite at the expense of women). That seems like a fair point to me, and he's never taken an anti-LGBT position to my knowledge.
Am I missing something? And if you dismiss Jordies entirely, then we have a very, very barren landscape for Australian politics indeed. There's no Australian "journalist" or "pundit" willing to utter the words "manufacturing consent" to my knowledge.
Thank you for the balanced review. Keep the videos coming!
Looking forward to it:)
Get this- I went to your Twitter page, and on the "recommended" list of accounts to follow, Knowing Better showed up.
rofl
Lol Finally actually watched it sorry for requesting a video. Genuinely love your content, currently my favorite left-tube channel. Keep it up and I'll watch whatever the fuck you put out.
Your take on Vaush is so off I'm honestly confused how you got there
I swear no one actually watches his stupid videos, they just see like some clip and then they get mad and don't bother engaging, which I mean I get his stupid videos are so long and he's annoying but still....
It's as if we just can't see beyond the fact that he looks and sounds like the people we hate regardless of his actual politics
And if this is really a debate about fucking aesthetics as it seems to be, I think it's fucking stupid. We have bigger things to worry about than telling an edgy dude bro defending trans women on the internet that he has to stop being an edgy dude bro if he wants to be part of the club
You're still my favorite empanada though
People dont look at his videos close enough! Vaush is so arrogant and condescending, I hate everything from his fake machismo to his phony psychoanalysis of his opponents in debates, and even you seem to realize these behaviors are annoying to some extent. Vaush can be edgy, that is not the problem, the problem is he is teaching young people a deformed and fake version of marxism that is essentially some disgusting hybrid of Yugoslav revisionism and anarchism and he also debates like a right winger such as steven crowder, screaming and shouting and using his favorite buzzwords such as "Tankie", "Bad Faith", "Mentally ill/Lunatic" ect.
@@lychees33 Yeah so? I find the way Mexxie talks annoying and hard to listen to, but I would never make that grounds for an attack against her.
Different people have different tastes. You don't have to like him his debate tactics.
And he doesn't even really talk about theory, he usually engages with social issues because it's easier to push people left on that than reading them Das Kapital. It's not his focus. I swear people get mad at him over the weirdest shit, it's honestly shameful that the left is so unable to think beyond their immediate Feindbild.
Heeeeey, an Aussie lefty living in Argentina!! Awesome! I'm an Australian citizen, half Argie and ideologically towards left-wing-libertarianism, but a major NIHILIST at heart(Meh...labels, ay?). My dad was lucky to survive the dirty war. Many of his school mates and an ex-girlfriend weren't so lucky and "disappeared" along with the other thousands who "disappeared" into the Rio De La Plata. Had my dad not left Argentina when he did, this comment would never have been written.
Awww.... I like Jordie. Dude, he's said in many occasions that he'd vote Greens and I heard him encourage voting for them many times. It would seem that his rationale to advocate Labor is in the camp that it's just more pragmatic and more achievable to get them into office. It's just "vote for anyone but THE LIBERAL GOVERNMENT! and anyone they lean towards" to him. It's true though how he never criticizes them for being "Diet Liberal" but again, this may be for practical purposes and as part of his comedic style to extenuate the antagonism towards the Liberals. Maybe not it's just a thought, not attempting to play Jordie apologetics here. "Be not a fanatic of anyone. Hold no heroes" - Me
Nine Queens is an awesome film. Darin is an exceptional actor.
Thankyou for your comment, now I know Jordan is not actually in this video, I’m going to click away now 👍🏽
@@TheAjRae Why would someone from another channel be in this channel's Subscriber Milestone Q&A vids in the first place? What made you think he was here to beign with?
I think you are the youtuber that is the closest to my position on the left. I like Vaush though.
Looking forward to everything! Love you, keep it up!!!
What is to be done with leftypol? Go back to 8kun or stay in the bunker?
Björnsson leftypol forever
I dunno
@@BadEmpanada You're playing coy. I can attest that some opinions are skewed on leftypol. But regarding it's devotion to open discourse and the quest for knowledge it has it's place. It is worth noting that I only make the suggestion because some of your arguments are inline with many users of the site. Akin to two very open users of the site, bat'ko and muke, except you can read.
@@BadEmpanada leftypol is the pol counterpart on chanboards
@@dargondude2375 yeah like you say, its on the forefront of fighting 8pol
You're now at 69k. You're not allowed to have any more, it's too nice
On a deep dive so sorry for all the recent comments. Anyone who calls BE a tankie has effectively diluted the term to meaninglessness. Back in the day we pretty much only referred to folks like the Grey Zone guys as tankies, and that was in real life. Actually we didn't even call them tankies. I don't think that word was even around in the 90s. Back then instead of posting on the internet, they sold "newspapers".
YES! OH GOD YES! Your takes on Jordies and Greyzone are balm for my wounded soul.
6:16 Yikes. We got an anti-Friendly Jordies
It the problem with the hard left. They can't compromise to save their campaign and that why the lose so much.
Jorides is being strategic, he is playing the Conservatives at their own game, by being the Anti PC loud man he makes the Conservatives who live off that stereotype appear like out of touch elitist. While I'm not entirely in agreement with his politics (Nuclear Power for example) I can't stress how important it is that he, by some metrics, saved Queensland from a far right LNP government in 2020.
@@SormonAusPol LNP bad. Scumo covered up sexual harassment in the parliament house.
Knowing Better's.... colarmist video? Is that what he said or am I hearing it wrong?
Columbus
Wait. A. Second. You don't god worship past socialist leaders?! BadEmpanada is cancelled!
hooked on a feeling
Watching Vaush turned me to the left.
coldonesgeneral yeah but he’s really cringy and his approach to communism will never make it anywhere past his TH-cam channel
@@isaacnewton7763 I imagine he's no cringier than the people he convinces
Jordie also stans for Jordan Peterson in a big way, thinks he's some great thought-leader or modern day prophet, it's sad really
no he doesn't mate, no he doesn't
@@miadiamia admittedly the "modern day prophet" bit was hyberbole but he does stan
@@WindupCrow yeah i get that
@@miadiamia yeah he does a bit, even if it's hyperbolic. It's all over his self-help channel
He does from a self help sense because all JP does is talk basic self help stuff that has been around for ages. I assumed that he just disagreed with his political stances because they are so closely linked to religion
Che I woulda asked you which football team you support and, make a video appraising Uruguayan former President Mujica. Please.
What policies would you have the labor party adopt to push them further left?
Nueve reinas, yes!! First Argentinian movie I've even seen. I need to watch more...
Hey, I recognize that Couch, not from anywhere on TH-cam though
This is a really deep topic.
I just wanted to say. I love you, Dad.
3:55. I've been living in Buenos Aires for 30 years and I'd never heard of El Secreto del oro. Guess I'll have to check it out sometime!
Word of advice: never eat an empanada from the Coto chain of convenience stores, unless you have a death wish. They're the worst empanada possible.
For a moment I thought you had a polish flag behind
Who is the sociologist he's refering to? I don't quite hear it with his accent
Came for the Vaush hottakes. Was not disappointed.
I've only seen Wild Tales and thought it was great. How does that film rate in your top 10 or not?
Have you read anything by Garcia Marquez? What is your favorite historical time period?
Thoughts on what's happening in neighbouring Chile and also what's happening in Ecaudor right now?
I love Jordies but after I learnt about Labor’s factions, especially the shoppies, I take things with a grain of salt. But does anyone have an example of where he’s been transphobic? I haven’t seen anything.
I'm relieved someone has put my concerns about friendlyjordies into words
What? That he's trying to help get a left wing government into power? You can cling to your morals all you want but while Scott Morrison remains in power the progress of the left in Australia will forever remain at a near stand still. If a couple of compromises are needed to get into power then so be it. Let's talk about what direction to move Australia in once Labor is back IN power rather than before it and scare moderates away for a 4th time. And don't give me the crap about how Labor and Liberals are the same because I can give at least 10 reasons why they are not.
@@SormonAusPol Please don't assume my position. I think a Labor govt would be far better than more of the Libs and to that end I'll side with Jordies, but I do wish we had more people pushing a little further left in this country.
@@spootot I agree, my channel is just political history (Meaning I know all to well how badly Labor does at elections). But I am thinking of going partisan as the next election approach because we cannot allow Morrison another term to screw up our nation.
@11:03 No thoughts on Borges?
Yeah, I definitely recommend Borges as a writer despite his conservative inclinations. One of the greatest ever imo
Yeah, I think after a point, the people in the CCP who were pushing for legitimate and broad improvements for the Chinese stopped being Mao.
I'm a vaush fan but hes going to have a shit fit over this.
Same and I can't fucking wait
not to defend Jordan but it's not like said he was a leftist.
is there more on friendlyjordies transphobia? links/videos? has that changed in the last 4 years?
not doubting. i really never heard of him prior to the fire bombing.
Edgy gamers aren't a niche bro, the right knew that long before you and that's why all these huge anti sjws tend to be gamers, and they are still dominating the gamer space because of people like you.(sorry if this is in bad form ,you should still get my points)
I really like Vaush as I think we need a lot more debaters and people who can upload daily as a way of combating people like Sargon, NoBS, and many shitty anti-SJW gamers. Especially given Destiny never got breadpilled. I’m eager to see the Knowing Better Columbus response, I saw a smaller channel do a great response a few days back so I cannot wait to see your take.
I'm not going to lie he sounds like one of those people who string Slinkys as a kid
Greyzone Project is great
Aguante loco saludos desde Chile :)
I think you're too easy on Mao and Stalin and too hard on Vaush. But I like the way you think and agree with you on most of your vids. Thanks!
Stalin and Mao helped build systems that have undeniably uplifted billions of lives. Vaush is a bourgeois liberal who calls all actual socialists "tankies" because they support real-world success rather than eternally pure ideas that have never once worked and which Vaush isn't even actively _trying_ to make work, either
6:40 They do now.
So, when do we have a couple beers at San Telmo?
Offtopic, but you have such a likeable face!
That relief when you echo my exact feelings on Stalin/Mao. Phew 👍
(Edit: context - I've been doing some irl arguing with a hardcore tankie recently and it's been getting me down.)