This would be a good idea for a future contest!? You compose a piece and you only let us listen to the beginning and we have to write the rest. At the end, you decide your favorite version and explain how you made your own choices.
That's actually an old method of study. Bach and Brahms did that,and that method of comparing the original to your idea was recommended by many composers and a number of textbooks I've read. A high priority is a good score collection built up over time. Score analysis should run in parallel to composing. If a long piece for full orchestra is too daunting,read along with a recording,and mark particularly tasty passages to analyze. I copied out some passages of the Brandenburg Concerti and a lot of Debussy's works,Mozart,Holst,etc. It's very illuminating,and you appreciate the music that much more. There's several angles or levels to study from. 1)The overall form of the entire piece,and how the orchestration correlates with the dynamics over time. For the selected passages,2) the orchestration details and 3) the harmony and phrase structure.
Charming advice. However, there's something that one must bear in mind. If you choose either Bach or Mozart as your inspiration, you will need a lot more than willingness in order to produce something slightly approximate. Both composers possess an unparalleled level of intricacy, and their nuances are second-to-none.
This is a great method I'd love to try, but I have one question... Is there a certain level of music theory I should be at before performing this method with lets say, Beethoven? Because the whole process sounds great but it might be too advanced for me since I would only consider myself a Beginner-Intermediate level composer.
It’s definitely not easy and will be a slow and long process. The sooner you’re willing to put in the work the better, but I’d say to do Beethoven you’d want to be caught up to early 19th century harmony before you can make the most of it.
They should make an app/website that helps you do this... otherwise you have to find your own sheet music, thus seeing all of it first. It would be cool if you could pick for different artists, then have the app show you the key and as many bars as you want up front... maybe some other clue like period form or sentence form, a two bar repeat before moving on... clues like that, then you could just work on writing what you think would come next
I am actually thinking of using a combination of this method and doing transcription by ear. I find by doing transcription (notating a piece by ear) i absorb the matiral much more than simply copying it so i imagin that combaning both approaches must be a powerful study method to improve.
Ryan, one again you have challenged me to go where I never though of going. This is someone really need to do. Would you suggest finding a piece I have never heard by a composer I like and starting there?
That's interesting, so a big difference is that he actually read it first and then stepped away for a few days to "forget" it. Similar to my advice in the soundalikes video I guess. That might be a better way to start, knowing something like "OK I know it got quiet and then sequenced an idea from the B theme until it returned to the A" rather than just going with a blank canvas.
Hello Ryan hope you are doing well. I am actually first now starting to use this method and i am courious as to if this method works best if you are using it on one composer for a longer period of time before switching to an other or if it works best to use many diffrent composers as possible one after the other. Please answer :) Thank you.
I think it would be a good idea to try different composers so that you can learn from and assimilate many different styles and approaches to writing, otherwise you'll just sound like one specific other person and not yourself
@@RyanLeach Good point! Do you have an success stories besides Ernst Toch himself? Would be really interesting to hear. I am really starting to see the value in this method. Have you used the method consistently yourself? Have it made a huge impact on your skillset/craftsmanship?
for how long should you spend on each piece for this method to be effectiv? is a few hours too short or should you spend a week on each piece? Thank you in advance.
I don’t think there’s an exact science to it. Maybe at a minimum enough to feel like you’re learning something and at a maximum stop before you get bored and give up?
@@RyanLeach so it would be enough with this alone? I am actually doing this practice at the moment and plan to stick with it over the years and I already sense some benefits. I seem to get deeper insight to what the composer does than by simply looking at a the score.
@@RyanLeach if it was possible it would be awesome to see a follow up video on this method. To see before and after results from people doing this practice so you could clearly see the benefits of doing it. I am sure that would inspire even more people to this method.
@@RyanLeach I have giving it a try but I think you need to do it for a longer period of time to truly see results. It’s a great way to see how the composer would have solved a particular situation and ones you make your own version and compare to the original you get a deeper understanding of why the composer made that choice.
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
😬 Mistakes I Made Learning To Write Music th-cam.com/video/LsuXwtRwgWQ/w-d-xo.html
This would be a good idea for a future contest!? You compose a piece and you only let us listen to the beginning and we have to write the rest. At the end, you decide your favorite version and explain how you made your own choices.
Interesting idea!
René Leibowitz wrote a orchestration workbook focused on this specific method ("Thinking for Orchestra"). It's hard to try, but definitely worths.
That's actually an old method of study. Bach and Brahms did that,and that method of comparing the original to your idea was recommended by many composers and a number of textbooks I've read. A high priority is a good score collection built up over time. Score analysis should run in parallel to composing. If a long piece for full orchestra is too daunting,read along with a recording,and mark particularly tasty passages to analyze. I copied out some passages of the Brandenburg Concerti and a lot of Debussy's works,Mozart,Holst,etc. It's very illuminating,and you appreciate the music that much more. There's several angles or levels to study from. 1)The overall form of the entire piece,and how the orchestration correlates with the dynamics over time. For the selected passages,2) the orchestration details and 3) the harmony and phrase structure.
Charming advice. However, there's something that one must bear in mind. If you choose either Bach or Mozart as your inspiration, you will need a lot more than willingness in order to produce something slightly approximate. Both composers possess an unparalleled level of intricacy, and their nuances are second-to-none.
Your videos are invaluable for budding musicians and composers. Thank you so much for making such brilliant videos….
Toch's book is a great read!
This is a great method I'd love to try, but I have one question... Is there a certain level of music theory I should be at before performing this method with lets say, Beethoven? Because the whole process sounds great but it might be too advanced for me since I would only consider myself a Beginner-Intermediate level composer.
It’s definitely not easy and will be a slow and long process. The sooner you’re willing to put in the work the better, but I’d say to do Beethoven you’d want to be caught up to early 19th century harmony before you can make the most of it.
@@RyanLeach Ok, thanks for the tips!
Love it Ryan, sounds like a great technique!
It's harder than it sounds!
@@RyanLeach Totally agree , it does not sound easy at all, but an excellent way to be able to learn to develop a style of a particular composer.
I feel so cheated. "And now for the real fire .... " and the video ends. I'm in tears!
th-cam.com/video/dJ0AkP_BFhs/w-d-xo.html
They should make an app/website that helps you do this... otherwise you have to find your own sheet music, thus seeing all of it first. It would be cool if you could pick for different artists, then have the app show you the key and as many bars as you want up front... maybe some other clue like period form or sentence form, a two bar repeat before moving on... clues like that, then you could just work on writing what you think would come next
I think as an extra step to this method you could analyse the part you copied in order to more accurately compose a continuation
Thank you nicely done. These are excellent tips for exercise.
I am actually thinking of using a combination of this method and doing transcription by ear. I find by doing transcription (notating a piece by ear) i absorb the matiral much more than simply copying it so i imagin that combaning both approaches must be a powerful study method to improve.
Reminds of going through a good chess match between world champions and trying to figure out the next move. Great video!
Ryan Leach is an absolute Chad, wow! Amazing video, nice work
1:16 composition competitions
Ryan, one again you have challenged me to go where I never though of going. This is someone really need to do. Would you suggest finding a piece I have never heard by a composer I like and starting there?
Yea probably best if it's not something you are familiar with because then you might just be remembering what it does!
Mozart's alive (I know he ain't) aye man set me up
where did you get that lamp behind you?
This method reminds me of how benjamin franklin would learn to become a better writer.
That's interesting, I've read a fair bit about Franklin but don't remember that part.
@@RyanLeach www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2017/10/02/how-ben-franklin-learned-to-write/ Scott young talks a bit about his method here
That's interesting, so a big difference is that he actually read it first and then stepped away for a few days to "forget" it. Similar to my advice in the soundalikes video I guess. That might be a better way to start, knowing something like "OK I know it got quiet and then sequenced an idea from the B theme until it returned to the A" rather than just going with a blank canvas.
Hello Ryan hope you are doing well. I am actually first now starting to use this method and i am courious as to if this method works best if you are using it on one composer for a longer period of time before switching to an other or if it works best to use many diffrent composers as possible one after the other. Please answer :) Thank you.
I think it would be a good idea to try different composers so that you can learn from and assimilate many different styles and approaches to writing, otherwise you'll just sound like one specific other person and not yourself
@@RyanLeach Good point!
Do you have an success stories besides Ernst Toch himself? Would be really interesting to hear. I am really starting to see the value in this method. Have you used the method consistently yourself? Have it made a huge impact on your skillset/craftsmanship?
great Idea
Let us know if you decide to try it and how it turns out!
for how long should you spend on each piece for this method to be effectiv? is a few hours too short or should you spend a week on each piece? Thank you in advance.
I don’t think there’s an exact science to it. Maybe at a minimum enough to feel like you’re learning something and at a maximum stop before you get bored and give up?
Thanks for your answer. I don't think I ever get bored using this technique. It's so valuable xD @@RyanLeach
I'm not an expert, but I think some good advice would be to not try this with Schoenberg's Gurre-Lieder!
Hello there,what the name of that film you show with those 2 characters please?
Amadeus
@@RyanLeach Thank i think i will watch it thanks to you ;)
Is this method enough to becoming professional composer/orchestrator? Or is there limitations to it?
I would say it’s one more method among many others for study and practice
@@RyanLeach so it would be enough with this alone? I am actually doing this practice at the moment and plan to stick with it over the years and I already sense some benefits. I seem to get deeper insight to what the composer does than by simply looking at a the score.
@@RyanLeach if it was possible it would be awesome to see a follow up video on this method. To see before and after results from people doing this practice so you could clearly see the benefits of doing it. I am sure that would inspire even more people to this method.
@@bjarketan5244 sorry if I was unclear, I meant no not alone. One part of many approaches
I hope we get an AI-based alternative soon!
Huh somehow I missed this video
Never too late
Anyone used this method? How did the progress go?
I guess everyone is intimidated, you go first!
@@RyanLeach I have giving it a try but I think you need to do it for a longer period of time to truly see results. It’s a great way to see how the composer would have solved a particular situation and ones you make your own version and compare to the original you get a deeper understanding of why the composer made that choice.
How do you complete a section? Many times I stay on one bar. Teach us how to complete a section in one run.
Check out my videos on sentence and period form
@@RyanLeach thank you very much your videos are important for me.
2:15 what is a "dah"?
DAW = Digital Audio Workstation like Logic, Cubase or Pro Tools
Really funny ! ❤
Ouija Board?
How do you get a deceased person as a teacher?
Um maybe watch the video?