So, in all seriousness, if you really are looking for some ideas for when you probably SHOULD swap, check this (sligggghtly outdated, use your judgement!) guide on when it may be better to swap: th-cam.com/video/IG2b52Vofew/w-d-xo.html
I always laugh when I play Dva and the enemy tanks swaps to Zarya and then I proceed to ignore her for the rest of the match while she tries to chase me around.
Winston is unironically a good dva counter cause he ignores armour, is faster, max value armour vs dva Crazy how it changed from dva counters winton to winton counters dva
@@spyhy4019nah dva melts you or ur bubble so much faster with micro missiles where as counterdiving dva is just annoying doesn’t really end in a kill 9/10 times.
I think spilo never said to not switch, just that, if you have to switch, do it to someone you're comfortable with, don't switch to a hero you can't play just because it has a good matchup against someone
The point being is that counterswapping tanks often naturally exposes you more to common DPS/Support picks from the enemy team without your team doing anything differently. If that's not the case for your backline, then yeah, swap. If the enemy team counterpicks your tank, they may accidentally swap into heroes that have bad matchups vs your backline.
@@CoachSpiloI’m sorry but I don’t under what you’re trying to say here. Counterswapping exposes you more to common picks on your team? What does expose mean here? It “exposes” you to bad team comps with commonly picked supports? Genuinely so confused.
@@bigfudge2031 Sewerrat says hi, and personally like, switching ruins the game. A main should be viable at any level, provided you have enough skill level. It speaks for the health of the game that folks look at counters and challenges and immediately think of switching, instead of growing their personal skills. It's sad that folks think "pro" means not having fun/playing the characters you want to play.
I love this idea for a segment. Learning how to play into/around counters is something that a lot of people don't get when counterswapping is such a prevalent strategy. Educate the masses!
From my practice, I'd say that there's a triangle when it comes to improving on roles. If you're struggling on tank, play healer, tank struggles usually stem from not being aware of what pushes your dps and healers can support and follow up on. Healer forces you to stay back and observe everything, watch the movements of your tanks and dps, as well as familiarizing you with what los' healers can take. If you're struggling on DPS, play tank. DPS players are more easily punished for taking high-risk/high-reward positioning, but you need that perspective to play dps well. Tank can let you get comfortable with playing in these positions and help you understand that you dying isn't the end of the world so long as you get appropriate value in return. If you're struggling on healer, play DPS. Developing an understanding of what positions dps take and what flank routes exist can make surviving and getting value as a healer so much easier. As a healer main myself, doing this meant I was frequently the only one aware of a flanking dps looking for a play, or the one responsible for shutting down aggressive plays. This is the kind of thinking that got me to Masters. An understanding of how other roles work makes the role you main easier to play well. That's not to say that anyone who doesn't do this is bad, but just if you're struggling to climb in a role, focus on the next step in the triangle.
It depends on the map, but since Pharah has the advantage most of the time vs a lot of the hitscans now, and since hitscan is very weak to dive and brawl. (besides Cassidy) she should fare pretty easy
im happy i found your channel (thanks to my friend) and i feel like this is a good series, personally as a ram main i for some reason struggle against specifically zarya in the tank roster (that's just a skill issue), anti nade and discord combos, and high damage output dps (like bastion and junkrat), if it's just one of those I can pretty well adapt, but alltogether is insanely difficult for me for some reason.
Wait for zarya's bubble, whoever uses their cool down first loses the trade, if you don't shield right she can take space, bubble, and push your backline and wait for grav before you ult she trap you ajd run away
Oh man a D.Va episode of this would be so interesting to me! I manage to counter some of her counters, if you play highgrounds correctly, but some times it seems so impossible, if just one of the enemy team goes either, Zarya, Sym or Echo
Why wait? Just make your username have genji in it (cuz wtf why not) and then you get that in half your ranked games. But that’s not actually the worst comp imo cuz there isn’t much poke damage to force you out. It would be worse if there was a torb or a bap
@@AbdAllah-Tarek09you should tell that to the other team lmao, there’s so many times people will throw just to kill me. Like I’ll be in their backline, 4 members of their team come to chase me, and then my team runs over their tank and then the rest of their team. Or a Moira will just fade to chase me all the time and then just die
A benefit to not swapping is that you get to play in those challenging circumstances that force you to improve. You can't become good at a skill unless you step out of your comfort zone and challenge yourself.
i really liked this content and im down for some more if you wanna keep doing them. this taught me more about fighting counters, than my 4 years playing overwtach.
The problem with this scenario is that 90% of the time you will not get a dps comp that works around winston like this one at the start.....you will have a junkrat inting at the start or some other crap that doesnt work even on masters-gm....thats also the stage where I cant continue playing the game when I am countered and the rest of my team doesnt pick around me to counter their bad picks that open op a lot of chances for them. In my games enemies always go for sombra+tank burster (especially on payload/push where my options are limited) and mostly my dps line has 1 person always going in far to early and dying and then stagger fights out and forcing 4v5 at some points, then you have a second dps that just doesnt work in the situation at all and isnt using the space you create (they basicly stack up on 1 angle and all the pressure is on you in the front).
He put no restrictions on what dps heroes the blue team picked but yes as Spilo said, he recommends swapping if he was coaching the winston in this match
I’d like to see this kinda thing with a flyer like Pharah, Echo, etc bc I feel like so many ppl do complain abt the counterplay that goes on with them, and I’d like to see something where you analyze how a Pharah or something can play against a Soldier, Ashe, Widow, Dva, etc, great video, would love to see more, no matter the hero!
You either spam from outside their effective range, take angles they’re not covering, engage when they’re distracted, or hard flank and kill them. Sometimes I just play like a brawler and stick close to my team, even stay grounded most of the time. I think people forget you don’t have to fly 100% of the time. If you are on the ground like a normal hero, what special advantage does the hitscan player have now? Also use cover when you are flying, people also forget that for some reason. You know how normal heroes play against a widow? That’s basically how you play Pharah against hitscans.
@@DJWolfHouse yeah i play pharah from time to time myself and utilize these things, i dont rlly struggle much, i just think lots of average pharahs dont rlly do this, so it would be good to specifically show these things in this kind of video format
@@ItsHeracles Yeah I thought Pharah was broken even before the armor/projectile change, I don’t feel countered by anyone besides maybe a good Dva/Echo that camps you. 25 hp nerf hurt pretty bad though.
Can anyone be a part of this? I will intentionally play Genji into his hard counters because you can always outplay someone, and this would be a fantastic way to get better with how prevalent Brig is
i'd really like to do this as genji, or view it if you already did it. I can play and rip through most genji counters like winston, sombra, mei, sym, brig, moira, torb, with no issue. But I have such a hard time doing anything meaningful against a top 100 tracer or echo.
Hey i joined overwatch end season 9 and went from silver 5 to platinum 5 with otp Sigma. Heres what i feel like is unfun comp to play against. Sigma vs Zarya, Sym, Pharah. If you wanna add sups - moira and HEAR ME OUT lw (most of time he is out of reach and pulls low/half hp deminishing all of the progress made). Substitute for tank possibly Winton. For dps any flyers and if player not sharp enough Sombra. Possible substitude for supps Kiriko (for obvios reasons)
Reaper is better overall for thus experiment. The zen isn't getting dove with that comp. Or let the roadhog play dva and it's still a hard counter and outs the back line which this video proved was the linch pin.
Reaper really isn’t a counter for Winston anymore. Winston can just leap away from him. Torb on the other hand can still poke with his primary, and when Winston does jump in, Torb can just shotgun him
@QuarterbackTCG reaper doesn't do nearly as much against Winston anymore after the armor change. Even if you do enough to break armor monkey just leaps away and is safe
you're only ever countered if they're better than you. doesn't matter if they run 1 or 5 counters, if they're dogshi you can still win. Can't count the amount of times I've beaten a full stack of Ball counters while my team cry "they're countering you, swap" and when we win - they're silent.
So, in all seriousness, if you really are looking for some ideas for when you probably SHOULD swap, check this (sligggghtly outdated, use your judgement!) guide on when it may be better to swap: th-cam.com/video/IG2b52Vofew/w-d-xo.html
"Any questions?"
"Why are you so charismatic?"
"Crack cocaine."
peak
This is going to be a phenomenal series
I hope so. This community is so bad at this game at a knowledge level.
Wee need a doomfist scenario for this asap
funny you should say that...
every doomfist plays against a counter, the question is how much counters do they play against
Doomfist players never swap tbf
Most are managable, except for Sombra.
@@silasd7348cass is worse than sombra. Cant react to flash like you can hack.
I always laugh when I play Dva and the enemy tanks swaps to Zarya and then I proceed to ignore her for the rest of the match while she tries to chase me around.
Zarya never really countered Dva like ever. It's even more evident now because the Tanks are so overtuned
Depends on the map really
Winston is unironically a good dva counter cause he ignores armour, is faster, max value armour vs dva
Crazy how it changed from dva counters winton to winton counters dva
@@spyhy4019 All the armor changes and Winston being able to ignore armor was insane for Winston in that matchup
@@spyhy4019nah dva melts you or ur bubble so much faster with micro missiles where as counterdiving dva is just annoying doesn’t really end in a kill 9/10 times.
cant wait for the ball episode against sombra brig ana where the ball is on life support by the end
Not just the ball, but the person playing because they've gone into cardiac arrest because their blood pressure is too high.
You mean the ball that can hunt down and kill Sombra now that her teleport range was nerfed? Seems a terrible match up lol.
@@ReaveIdono can't hunt down a sombra 76
@@knyt0 Skill issue
@@ReaveIdonosombra hasn’t been a huge counter for a while (by herself at least if she’s working well with a whole team it can be absolutely miserable)
This is a good idea. I hope those pays off and could be a longer series, because this some actual content creation.
So…I can play into my counters if my team plays into theirs?
Yeah, I guess I’ll just switch then…
I think spilo never said to not switch, just that, if you have to switch, do it to someone you're comfortable with, don't switch to a hero you can't play just because it has a good matchup against someone
The point being is that counterswapping tanks often naturally exposes you more to common DPS/Support picks from the enemy team without your team doing anything differently. If that's not the case for your backline, then yeah, swap. If the enemy team counterpicks your tank, they may accidentally swap into heroes that have bad matchups vs your backline.
@@CoachSpiloI’m sorry but I don’t under what you’re trying to say here. Counterswapping exposes you more to common picks on your team? What does expose mean here? It “exposes” you to bad team comps with commonly picked supports? Genuinely so confused.
@@DJWolfHouse If the enemy team counterpicks your tank, they may accidentally swap into heroes that have bad matchups vs your backline.
I would love to see a junkrat against a Phar/Echo/Juno/D.Va combo. Would be fascinating to see how a pro would navigate that sort of team comp
The pro would tell you not to play Junkrat
They would switch, also no pro player is going to play junkrat to begin with 😂
@@bigfudge2031 Sewerrat says hi, and personally like, switching ruins the game. A main should be viable at any level, provided you have enough skill level. It speaks for the health of the game that folks look at counters and challenges and immediately think of switching, instead of growing their personal skills. It's sad that folks think "pro" means not having fun/playing the characters you want to play.
@@crabdoc sewerrat is a good junkrat, but he is NOT a pro player lol
@@emmettbachran13 I mean if a player is T500, and manages to keep that title, I consider them a pro player.
As a doomfist/rein player. Praying vs my counters is all i do
Sometimes it is more praying than playing.
Doomfist here, lets pray together it might be the only hope
As a Tracer player SAME
“And dey say…”
I love this idea for a segment. Learning how to play into/around counters is something that a lot of people don't get when counterswapping is such a prevalent strategy. Educate the masses!
Cool video idea! Gotta continue this series with a Doomfist episode!
From my practice, I'd say that there's a triangle when it comes to improving on roles.
If you're struggling on tank, play healer, tank struggles usually stem from not being aware of what pushes your dps and healers can support and follow up on. Healer forces you to stay back and observe everything, watch the movements of your tanks and dps, as well as familiarizing you with what los' healers can take.
If you're struggling on DPS, play tank. DPS players are more easily punished for taking high-risk/high-reward positioning, but you need that perspective to play dps well. Tank can let you get comfortable with playing in these positions and help you understand that you dying isn't the end of the world so long as you get appropriate value in return.
If you're struggling on healer, play DPS. Developing an understanding of what positions dps take and what flank routes exist can make surviving and getting value as a healer so much easier. As a healer main myself, doing this meant I was frequently the only one aware of a flanking dps looking for a play, or the one responsible for shutting down aggressive plays.
This is the kind of thinking that got me to Masters. An understanding of how other roles work makes the role you main easier to play well. That's not to say that anyone who doesn't do this is bad, but just if you're struggling to climb in a role, focus on the next step in the triangle.
Time to really see how well hitscan fares against Pharah!
It depends on the map, but since Pharah has the advantage most of the time vs a lot of the hitscans now, and since hitscan is very weak to dive and brawl. (besides Cassidy) she should fare pretty easy
So its the opposite now, let’s see how hitscans play around a pharah lmao.
im happy i found your channel (thanks to my friend) and i feel like this is a good series, personally as a ram main i for some reason struggle against specifically zarya in the tank roster (that's just a skill issue), anti nade and discord combos, and high damage output dps (like bastion and junkrat), if it's just one of those I can pretty well adapt, but alltogether is insanely difficult for me for some reason.
Wait for zarya's bubble, whoever uses their cool down first loses the trade, if you don't shield right she can take space, bubble, and push your backline and wait for grav before you ult she trap you ajd run away
Spilo out here filling the void left by Jayne.
Thank you so much for this Spilo. I love mixing the Ideas of You and Awkward on being able to play into counters.
Ball OTP here. I play against my “counters” in groups of 3-5 every comp match. Better against them then the hero’s ball “counters” now
The Wrecking Ball player trying to play around against the Brig, Cass, and Sombra team
Oh man a D.Va episode of this would be so interesting to me! I manage to counter some of her counters, if you play highgrounds correctly, but some times it seems so impossible, if just one of the enemy team goes either, Zarya, Sym or Echo
Can't wait for Zarya, Mei, Sombra, Brig, and Moira Vs Genji
Why wait? Just make your username have genji in it (cuz wtf why not) and then you get that in half your ranked games. But that’s not actually the worst comp imo cuz there isn’t much poke damage to force you out. It would be worse if there was a torb or a bap
Moira brig sucks ass as a comp if you play around your team into that it's not that hard
my guy it is a 5v5 game not a genji v5
@@AbdAllah-Tarek09you should tell that to the other team lmao, there’s so many times people will throw just to kill me. Like I’ll be in their backline, 4 members of their team come to chase me, and then my team runs over their tank and then the rest of their team. Or a Moira will just fade to chase me all the time and then just die
This is a really cool concept I'd Like to see a venture going against a torb cass orisa etc
Learning how to still play into your counter inlocks a new skill. This is great.
The live gameplay section was so fun to watch, felt like owcs lol
This is such a cool project!
This is a dope fricking idea. Please carry this on.
Could be dope to see Sigma and Rein please.
Also Orisa.
A benefit to not swapping is that you get to play in those challenging circumstances that force you to improve. You can't become good at a skill unless you step out of your comfort zone and challenge yourself.
The content the OW community needs so bad (but they do not know yet).
i really liked this content and im down for some more if you wanna keep doing them. this taught me more about fighting counters, than my 4 years playing overwtach.
Absolutely love the concept, great video!
Love this series! hope to see more soon!
The problem with this scenario is that 90% of the time you will not get a dps comp that works around winston like this one at the start.....you will have a junkrat inting at the start or some other crap that doesnt work even on masters-gm....thats also the stage where I cant continue playing the game when I am countered and the rest of my team doesnt pick around me to counter their bad picks that open op a lot of chances for them.
In my games enemies always go for sombra+tank burster (especially on payload/push where my options are limited) and mostly my dps line has 1 person always going in far to early and dying and then stagger fights out and forcing 4v5 at some points, then you have a second dps that just doesnt work in the situation at all and isnt using the space you create (they basicly stack up on 1 angle and all the pressure is on you in the front).
He put no restrictions on what dps heroes the blue team picked but yes as Spilo said, he recommends swapping if he was coaching the winston in this match
@@Kanggaxx yes I watched the video, but then with the video titel it doesnt make sense.
This needs a series
Not calling it "Misery Heroes" feels like a missed opportunity, ngl.
I gotta say this was actually pretty fun to watch🤷♀️
Nice jobs everyone🫡
As a Tracer player I have had maybe 5 matches in the past year where I wasn't forced to play against some or all counters.
More coaches need to watch Spilo. Some good methods to coaching, for games or other sports.
This is a great idea
What’s the rule for maps? Will there be bad maps for characters too?
This is interesting. looking forward to finishing the vid
I want to see Mauga into Sigma, Ana, Zen. Especially on linear maps/points where it's hard to avoid face tanking.
Happy to do a rein scenario on any unfavorable maps
I’d like to see this kinda thing with a flyer like Pharah, Echo, etc bc I feel like so many ppl do complain abt the counterplay that goes on with them, and I’d like to see something where you analyze how a Pharah or something can play against a Soldier, Ashe, Widow, Dva, etc, great video, would love to see more, no matter the hero!
You either spam from outside their effective range, take angles they’re not covering, engage when they’re distracted, or hard flank and kill them. Sometimes I just play like a brawler and stick close to my team, even stay grounded most of the time.
I think people forget you don’t have to fly 100% of the time. If you are on the ground like a normal hero, what special advantage does the hitscan player have now? Also use cover when you are flying, people also forget that for some reason.
You know how normal heroes play against a widow? That’s basically how you play Pharah against hitscans.
@@DJWolfHouse yeah i play pharah from time to time myself and utilize these things, i dont rlly struggle much, i just think lots of average pharahs dont rlly do this, so it would be good to specifically show these things in this kind of video format
@@ItsHeracles Yeah I thought Pharah was broken even before the armor/projectile change, I don’t feel countered by anyone besides maybe a good Dva/Echo that camps you. 25 hp nerf hurt pretty bad though.
My lord and savior spilo, please, I need this for genji
I really like this idea for a series. I myself will get lots of use out of this…
missed opportunity to call this "Misery Heroes"
Would love to see this with Ball
Can anyone be a part of this? I will intentionally play Genji into his hard counters because you can always outplay someone, and this would be a fantastic way to get better with how prevalent Brig is
i'd really like to do this as genji, or view it if you already did it. I can play and rip through most genji counters like winston, sombra, mei, sym, brig, moira, torb, with no issue.
But I have such a hard time doing anything meaningful against a top 100 tracer or echo.
Funny timing considering that I sent you a video on counter swapping of mine to hear your thoughts
Me as an otp zenyatta feeling superior to those mortals counterswapers
x)
You should really start a series, do it for every character
Patiently waiting for ball vs counter stack
This guy so real
i already do this by one tricking bastion
Hey i joined overwatch end season 9 and went from silver 5 to platinum 5 with otp Sigma. Heres what i feel like is unfun comp to play against. Sigma vs Zarya, Sym, Pharah. If you wanna add sups - moira and HEAR ME OUT lw (most of time he is out of reach and pulls low/half hp deminishing all of the progress made). Substitute for tank possibly Winton. For dps any flyers and if player not sharp enough Sombra. Possible substitude for supps Kiriko (for obvios reasons)
i want to hear him say this when they swap cree, sombra, ana, brig, and roadhog in quickplay when i play ball (happened yesterday night)
Yeah, when the enemy team goes Bastion, your team's DPS should be feasting.
For me, it isn't that they're unbeatable. It's just... Exhausting
Ugh I can’t wait to get coaching 😭 I’m gonna get some clips this weekend
Now let’s see a rein go against mauga/bastion/junk/zen/bap
Interested to see if you could extend this to DPS hereos too, I'm struggling on tracer whenever I'm into cass/reaper/brig/juno or something similar
Hello spillo. Do you do vod reviews for lower ranked players? Diamond for example
I 100% Volunteer as a Plat 4 Genji Main
If I (Gold) can beat 5 counters (scrims, masters) as doom, you guys got this 🤝
This is cinema
10:15 Cat visits
I love this concept. What rank is this? I would assume it is plat to diamond maybe masters. I can't wait for the next video.
that's why u r the GOAT
I can't think of many times I saw Zarya in my Mach while winning I am an Orisa DVA
Now play doomfist into sombra hog Ana or dva/genji into 4 beam swaps
after this game i learnt not to feed my brains out and went 27 and 2
I hope for a Widowmaker episode soon
hoping he does that for genji one day, i despise moira & co so much
LMFAOO that ending
winston hero misery is just selecting him in masters
elite lunch youtube
8:22 i subbed here
wowo spilo commentary so cool
Spilo do u mainly do this with PC players?
Tbh I’m more afraid of Mauga than hog as monkey.
How about a zenyatta into dive comp (definitely including sombra)
And dey say we need Doomfist next
i would so wanna do this as genji
I love this kind of video.
No reaper for Winston counter?
Torb is able to poke Winston before the dive even happens, so Torb is a harder counter than Reaper is
Reaper is better overall for thus experiment. The zen isn't getting dove with that comp. Or let the roadhog play dva and it's still a hard counter and outs the back line which this video proved was the linch pin.
Reaper really isn’t a counter for Winston anymore. Winston can just leap away from him. Torb on the other hand can still poke with his primary, and when Winston does jump in, Torb can just shotgun him
@QuarterbackTCG reaper doesn't do nearly as much against Winston anymore after the armor change. Even if you do enough to break armor monkey just leaps away and is safe
0:01 so this applies to me every game
(I beat 5 beam heroes ez)
How does couching from this man work ? I need it tbh lollol
All information is available on his website I believe
@@hjalmarselberg5653 thank youuuu
i wanna see a dva one against mei zarya sym 😂
Winston vs bastion is a counter u can’t convince me
0:08 often on what?
Genji next?!
Need a Ball video ASAP
Genji next please against flyer hero’s. (I hate pharah)
Okay I’m down
Wrecking ball pleaseeee 🙏
would love a venture scenario
TH-cam has blue comments now?
you're only ever countered if they're better than you. doesn't matter if they run 1 or 5 counters, if they're dogshi you can still win. Can't count the amount of times I've beaten a full stack of Ball counters while my team cry "they're countering you, swap" and when we win - they're silent.
Bababooie
Last!