I've watched GM tank streams where they struggle with this. Sometimes it's just hard to not take a face full of spam. But the best tanks are conscious of it and manage better than others.
Also, healing recieved by: {Insert source} So, for example Ball, he recieved X amounts of heals from Health Packs and X amounts of healing from Supports. BUT make it so that it shows "assisted" healing, like, Sombra hacks on HPs (or maybe put that on healing received from "supports").
So basically as Tank: Make more efficient use of your team's finite amount of resources. Make sure the value you provide is worth the resources you and your team use. ("Return on investment") How to get more value: 1. Tempo: Play to your hero's cooldown times. Go in when you have cooldowns, back off when you don't (Tank gets more value) 2. Cover/downtime: Play around cover and stop taking so much unnecessary damage. Use 3 seconds of downtime now to regain HP/CD's instead of taking loads of damage in the open, and then being out of the fight for 10 seconds. Also your supports have to spend less time and resources to heal you can spend it shooting the enemy team or pocketing DPS. (Entire team gets more value) 3. Play to your hero's range when positioning. More time at effective range = more damage output, and less damage taken (Tank and support get more value) 4. Keep your armor up, it makes healing more effective. (Supports get more value).
nightbot sneaky and mean moderator inside of twitch chat i think i love you you make me wanna cry you make me wanna die i love you i love you i love you i love you nightbot
@@bragoen Maybe have it be just a % then? like the tank got 33% (for example) of all the healing that was done by our team or something like that. Maybe that'd be less toxic.
@@lend9754the actual number would probably be better because this could be really skewed by one flex and one main support. For example if I heal everyone except the tank on mercy but my ana is only healing the tank, chances are they’re definitely still going to have the highest number that DPS might be telling me I’m not doing my job right even though I’ve done everything right
that could be nice, but then also the doom / winton will fly off into narnia, preventing any possible healing, and then point at how little healing they've received.
if you play dive (ball especially) for more than a bit you'll notice there are people who can't do without dumping resources into their tank, they're addicted to it, they don't want to be responsible for securing kills. and many don't understand that baiting cooldowns and holding attention is value. no no, ball is only "tanking" when spinning around obj during overtime, at all other times he's "f you pick a nice comfy shield"
In my low elo experience if you dont contest the enemy tank more often than not, even if i have 3 people on me my team will get rolled by the reinhard with no healers
one time i had a mercy pocketing me as ball for the whole game. i asked her to look at someone else in between rounds, but she wouldn't. then after the game, she flamed me for taking damage.
They’re very rude about it to, doesn’t matter if you kill both healers or one of them and a dps. It’s your fault every time somehow cause your dps don’t understand the other tanks range. They’ll be getting beamed in the face by zar as widow and scream at the tank instead
This is also why very rarely in some games you'll have someone throw or disconnect and the team will unironically do better because you have 1 player that might have been demanding resources and not outputting that much AND your team also has the mindset of "we don't have a tank/dps/support we have to play more conservatively"
One time a tank decided to “stat chase” by playing far behind like a widow, trying not to die. I was using mercy falling back to heal him. He was getting kills but it wasn’t enough, I was getting mad so I decided not to dmg boost or heal him til he started to engage. After his 3rd death I decided to pocket and dmg boost until he died so I could rez, just to prove a point 😂 we ended up winning
I had this happen back before Overwatch 1 shut down. We had a D.Va that was feeding her brains out, so the enemy always had Ult pretty much every encounter. The D.Va took our complaints to the 'well see how well you do without me!' level and we straight up told her to just leave, we don't want her. We turned it around from being stomped to steam rolling IMMEDIATELY. The D.Va was literally ALL of our problems.
There's so much negative gameplay feedback when you do everything right and it just doesn't work. When I'm patient, don't absorb resources, wait for an opening or my teammates to do something and nothing happens, it feels worse than just charging in.
Its because everything he is explaining, only really works if everyone else on your team is ALSO not an idiot. Its a team game at the end of the day, if you are in silver trying to play patient and wait for your team to do something, I have news for you buddy
@@jacobfernandez813 You are absolutely right that if you are waiting for your team to make plays you are going to struggle. However, spilo doesn't tell you to wait for your team to make a play, he tells you to wait for your cooldowns before you make the play
well, wait for your team before you go in like they need to be there, but he doesnt say wait for your team to make a play, you make the play, just dont go in all by yourself LOL
Way to miss the point.... It's fine to charge in and play aggressively. What's not fine is to AFK on main taking a billion damage while doing absolutely nothing yet forcing your supports to blow all their fancy cooldowns on you. The point is that the resources you demand should be proportional to the value you're creating. If you're going for a big play you need to ask yourself, "is this worth forcing bap to use lamp?", "Is this worth Suzu?". Those are 25 and 15 second cooldowns respectively. The point is, if you're going to demand those CD's and attention you better get something of equal value from the other team. The problem is that so many tank players are literally doing nothing productive at all but due to having piss poor cover usage and awareness they demand these cooldowns and attention anyway. If you're gonna charge into the enemy backline and absolutely decimate them then feel free to demand lamp, suzu, everything but don't AFK on main taking pointless damage doing nothing and then spam the need healing button lmao. Furthermore, It's better to use your own cooldowns to generate value than force other players to use theirs. If you're gonna be arrogant enough to decide how other people use their cooldowns you better bring the goods and do something incredibly useful. That said, shit happens and I promise you your Ana is fine with using nade to heal you in an emergency. But don't make her randomly use it on you because you're not disciplined enough to play a corner properly. The whole enemy team could have been purpled, but no, you just couldn't resist wide peeking the Torb now could you smh.
@@itzpurple_queen9711 Sigma is a term derived from the greek alphabet, but it has deeper implications throughout history. In 1785, when I was born (I was born a few times) I was born. At that time, my birth occured. sigma meal what the sigma skibidi bop bop bop sigma meal, skibidi slicers
Bad tanks are one of the biggest reasons why low rank Mercy players are conditioned to healbot, which is just horrible if they climb even a little bit.
Nah they just suck and they play a garbage character. Mercy is USELESS if you're not running a duo with a dps that's as good as the lobby/better than the lobby.
@Shiro-cc9vi If you pocket a dps that is decent for their rank while getting some resurrections off, then Mercy can be fine. She's not great, but she's only horrible if she healbots.
@@BengaIaasHer movement is her most valuable resource. She’s not making plays besides rez and getting a sneaky kill here and there, but she enables the rest of the team to do so as long as they play cover and can hit their shots. I’m low rank and I play mercy pretty often, but if the team isn’t doing well already, her healing isn’t enough to keep them up, so I’ll swap to someone else who makes sense. When I have the right team Mercy can still have fantastic value, but people don’t notice that because they’re not seeing plays being made or being kept up 1v5 in everyone’s view. She’s mobile and knowing all the tech she has provides a lot of value because a good mercy won’t be flying at 160000 ft for everyone to see. In low ranks you do have to healbot much more but I still do my best to get kills and boost wherever possible if I’m playing her. I don’t think she’s the most useless especially in dive meta right now but I’ll see a lot of enemy mercy players who just don’t understand what to do on her and end up getting mad that *i* kill them. Brother, you flew into my team after a genji and my team is forgetting you exist. Come on 😭 Mercy has a negative connotation for a LOT of reasons but she’s still played and gets value in GM&Masters ranks. She’s team dependent so she is not always the right pick but she’s far from useless
@@spindless my point is that good tanks and good players overall know how to use positioning, which then allows their supports to do more than healing, but some support players are taught to be healbots and that is especially bad for Mercy because of how low her HPS is.
I used to be a tank player but resently swapped to support because i was suffering mentally on tank and now i started playing tank again and its very hard for me, so ty spilo for this video i think it helped me alot! (im dia3 on tank rn but 2 seasons ago was masters 3)
Preach. Playing support or DPS along side a tank seeking out how to get shot and blow the teams cooldowns in the most creatively useless ways is incredibly frustrating. This also applies to the rest of the team expecting resources such as heals when they themselves are not actively taking damage. Go heal yourself. You are allowed to not peek and shoot when you are low HP. It's all gambling with what's available. It always feels like I'm playing poker when my team is playing slots.
Hands down, this is the best video I have ever seen about how to play tank. You always keep delivering with this kind of videos Spilo. Absolutely brilliant work
Spilo be improving deadass! Your language, in-game pedagogy (and use of example at the same time as explanation), stress/intensity of speech (for watch interest = better attention in your videos) and tempo is good in this video!
I wish i could see damage taken on the scoreboard, and maybe healing received. It would show a far more complete story based on stats, which way too many people (including me) rely on to understand teammates play.
okay this is so fuckin weird. I remember watching your basic tank guide when I was new to the game like 6 years ago. I saw this video pop up in my recommended and instantly remembered the name. your guide must have been the most useful for me haha. glad to see you are still around.
I wish I could show this to my Zarya that I had the other day… Me (Moira) and other support (Kiriko) was healing her CONSTANTLY the entire match I was even using the trick to charge my heal meter faster (spamming damage button) And the stats reflected it! Even still she was dying more than our dps which I barely even looked at cause she demanded so many resources. And then she had the nerve to call us out for beeing useless healers and that if only she got pocketed like enemy Zarya we would win. We had over twice the healing combined than the enemy supports and it was ALL into her to TRY to stop her from feeding… Never have I played a game with Moira and had so little impact.
Not sure if you've covered this before: How should you adapt your dps/support style to a given tank? I've been watching tank guides to try get into the mindset but it hasn't fully answered the question. I get the "just poke/brawl/dive with the tanks" but the way each tank does their job in a given role feels so different. For example, diving with a winston vs ball, brawling with a JQ vs rein or poking with an orisa(i think shes poke lol) vs sig etc etc. Anyway good vid as always
This video is insanely important I think! I used to be stuck Silver until I started playing Queen. And her beeing so squishy made me play cover sooo much more and it instantly got me to gold 2. Probably just from not demanding much at all from my supports allowing them to pop off and get impact. Every tank should play her imo just to learn not to take excessive damage.
4:40 This is an important thing for support players to learn too, I think. A lot of them seem to have the attitude that the tank is entitled to resources but the DPS have to _earn_ them by getting some kind of visible results first. But, of course, the results are heavily impacted by the resources given. And honestly, sometimes that feeding tank is gonna survive more easily if you help the off-angling DPS instead.
@@Pekara121 the dudes who are either Gods or absolute dogshit? Yeah, we do see the latter, just never the first one BECAUSE THEY AREN'T IN THE PLAYER POOL THAT CONSTITUTE THE MAJORITY OF PLAYERS.
Recently had a Tank in MH's that was basically playing backline Tank, they refused to take point unless everyone else was basically already dead on the team. At one point, my Illari decided she was going to try and help the DPS. So here's me, pumping constant healing into my Illari who's dueling the enemy Zarya, she's barely staying alive because of my Support, and my Orisa (missing maybe 75 health) is just staring at us, watching us struggle to fight a Zarya that's getting full Support from her team. And then they throw themselves off the map because we weren't dedicating every bit of healing to them. There's a lot of Tank players out there that need to understand that we can't dedicate all of our resources to someone who isn't earning them. We're not going to pocket you, sitting in a corner, away from the fight, and sometimes we might have to sacrifice you if the DPS is making a big play that will win the fight. As a Support player, sometimes you have to let someone die for someone else to win the fight, even if the one dying, is you. Trade value is important.
Going to try and implement this more precisely tonight, it has partially been subconscious but now I need to actually put in in the forefront of my mind
For me when I play tank it's the opposite where my team mostly healers rage at me that I'm not doing my job; at times its rather difficult because it can be lets say enemy team focus me even if let's say I have cover or angle. Sometimes sure it can be that I'm bad as we all have our days, or I make mistakes, but I have had many people maybe even DPS but mostly healers just raging and yelling in the chat.
As for the "a lot of pressure on tanks is psychological", if is not intuitive then the gameplay is wrong, if is not the same pressure or similar to other roles, the gameplay/game loop is wrong. Loved the video
Stopped playing tank since last season, I can feel that the outcome of the game is less on me, but I’m enjoying the game much more now. Feels nice to play a hero I want and don’t get 4 on the enemy switching to make my games the most unfun experience. At most 2 people switch to counter me when im doing good.
Thank you I needed to see this video. I have a much better understanding of tank than I did before. I’ll try to demand less resources and play around my CDs. As a solo tank it’s hard to know when you’re the problem but I’ll try my best.
I'm gonna have to start copy pasting this video in some of my team chats. Definitely agree with those who mention healing received and damage taken being a stat. Wouldn't be helpful for the whole team, but definitely would be helpful feedback as a tank to know how you and your team are using resources and can kind of help support when you need more or less resources.
ive had trouble on ball staying alive, but i find him easier to allow my teammates to do things without the need to put so much resource into me as i have adaptive shield and fastest rollouts if done correctly, but i suck at grappling and determining whether i should soft push or not
What about when you're just trying to build ult? For example winston attack on numbani where you could intentionally take a full ana pocket just to build a quick nano (especially since it's hard for her to find angles on the enemy). Like sure you're taking a lot of resources for nothing but you're building your win con.
The overall wincon in any match is getting that resource/value ratio better than the other team. Why risk losing the initial fight just to build nano when you can play efficiently and win the fight without nano, then have it for the next fight?
@Gabe7Gal because you can't always do that, especially in a ranked environment. Ana has a hard time getting anywhere to pressure the enemy on 1st point numbani especially if there's a hog or something camping the entrance to highground. Similarly against a lot of comps winston can have trouble getting in a position to do much without getting instantly blown up if you don't have a tracer/sombra setting up behind to engage with you. So it would make sense if the winston can't really get a good engage, and the ana can't get any space to get value outside of healing, that you might be better off farming a fast nano that gives your winston a chance to make a play. If it's just ana healing winston and both dps and tank poking him, you'll get the nano before they get their ults. While if winston tries to not take damage and you might struggle to ever break through. That's at least how I understand it, then again I've never gotten above low masters so I'm not sure if I'm missing something. Sorry for the long reply
You are totally right that people overemphasize the value of tank. I'm still on my first 50 games, not even able to play in comp mode, and I won a game as Winston where someone said it was a "Tank Diff". It was almost certainly not that, since I don't usually do half that well. Yeah, I was all up in their face, but I only survived because I was able to jump back and get healed. I was not playing well mechanically for sure. I suppose it means Tank works too well at attracting attention.
Cooldown, usually used as a noun describing any ability with any cooldown timer when used. Bionade, Immortality Field, Helix Rockets, and Rocket Punch are examples of CDs
I'm ngl, I thought I was gonna watch another bogus spectating video, but I forgot that Spilo is actually a coach and knows what he's talking about. Hell, I didn't even know how many times I died cuz I thought I was in the green, but my supports were in the red cuz of me.
This is a whole lot of words to say do nothing. That's the key to tanking in OW2. The first tank to waste a resource loses, so it's best to wait and do nothing until someone makes a mistake. Do nothing until an opportunity unfolds, don't create opportunities yourself.
You DO create opportunities by positioning and timing yourself to do so. An Orisa isn't "creating an opportunity" when she just holds w into a turret bastion, she's just wasting support resource. But she IS creating an opportunity when she shoots and a bastion from a covered off angle while he turrets, and then charges afterwards.
I think saying any role is harder than another is entirely subjective. Dps have recourses too and anyone who can just turn their brain off and kill is probably not in their proper rank yet. If we look at pro play, often the best players are on DPS because at the top it requires top tier mechanics along with playing smart. For us ranked players it’s all about preference and your personal skill set
I think of it this way. On tank, you need good macro game sense; on Support, you need good micro game sense; on DPS, you need good mechanics. You obviously need everything on every role, but the skill sets generally are weighted by the roles like this. Varies character to character within the roles.
@@rickmich18 I think it is more accurate to say that DPS are both more straightforward and have "fewer" responsibilities in the sense that everything a DPS has to do a tank or support also has to do(with a couple exceptions, but those characters have unique mechanics like mercy), but they also have to do additional things on top of it. So saying DPS is "easier" may not be entirely accurate, but it has a more concentrated and specific focus.
@@Rohndogg1I agree. The mechanical expectations for Dps are higher because you have less direct responsibilities. If I’m on Reaper, I don’t have to worry about keeping my Ram alive, because I can’t heal, but it’s more crucial I hit my shotgun shots because that’s my entire value as a character.
Funny because in OW1 i was like 70/25/10 support/DPS/tank for S1-S5 when i quit playing. Then in OW2, i was 100/0/0 up until Season 11, i started doing tank, been holding a 70% win rate with zarya and 60~ with winston, rein, and all been with ease.... up to plat now. I guess because i follow what you explained in this video. As a support, i know not to face tank just to face tank. I know if i am taking tons of damage for a little poke, that both my supports have to be healing me, thus letting my DPS die. #1 thing i hate as support is when the tank just suicides in again and again. And then cries at lack of heals and my low healing value. And we end up losing #2 when i pocket tank, 20k healing per 10mins and we still lose then the tank blames DPS. And i have to explain that the DPS failed because had both supports playing "Find Lemmiwinks" with the tank #3 go from not pocking a feeding tank to, to pocking the tank to TRY and do something different, and we end up somehow winning. Then the tank just brags about "see it is that easy just pocket tank" then they get that mindset even harder about how they should face tank everything and get both healers up their ass. Edit: and by no means am i a a perfect tank. Sometimes as rein, i prob should be more agro and charge in. And i am sure sometimes as zarya i get a little narrow eyed onto the support in the back and push to hard and not retake cover for heals.
Here’s something not a lot of people talk about, I’m a gm tank player and my main account got banned. I have a low ranked account that I bought bronze, after 3 months and a 90% win rate I am gold 2. I completely crush the enemy tank to the point where I am spawn camping them almost every single game and every win gives me 15-20% rank increase. It takes sooooo long and I don’t even want to be smurfing on this account I just want to get back to gm but it is taking so long to rank up even though I am literally winning every game. I play on average 2 hours a day so about 6 games. I am literally ruining these peoples games and I am trying so hard just to get out of these low ranks but it takes so long to rank up. In old overwatch a 90% win rate would give you tons of sr points per win, it took about 15 games to get from bronze to diamond.
Sometimes as support it is better to not heal your tank at all if your tank is only feeding. As support in lower ranks you need to know who of your team can make the difference.. or counter the enemy carry player. Or even protect your backline vs enemy good flanker. So as tank when you not get enough heals there is a chance you not worth it.
played a game of push last night as Juno, game was over in like 5 mins or so (Loss). I had 7k healing and everyone else had 3k or below because my hog was taking so much damage I couldn't take my eyes off him for a second, it's been a minute since I've seen a tank be critical every second of the match.
i always fuck up zarya. but i do well when we have a reaper or someone else to tank for me and distract the enemy so i can bubble them, i'm still used to play bodyguard zarya. that being said, my best tanks are dva, ramattra, winston and sigma. in that order, i think. i play mostly support, so i know to keep LoS, not cause trouble for my supports and peel if necessary.
Rip, you’re gonna make the 10 remaining tank mains more conscious of this stuff I’ve intuited from playing all roles and now I’m gonna have to be more conscious of it just to match. I’m pretty average on mechanical skill and while it never got me past high Diamond having some intuition of this was always my edge
I can see it already. Supports going to flame tanks more now, cause they see this and think they know tank. While inting and doing nothing on the high DPS low healjng supports
For sure if healers don’t switch it can be a problem but that’s also a tank problem if they take all the resources. You didn’t watch the video did you.
@@Mepper No I did I have won games cause I understood my Moira and Zen weren't healing. So I adjusted as Reinhardt and played really defensive and took space whenever my DPS got a pick or whenever I had ult
I'm not a good tank. I placed in like gold 5 trash tier. I just got so discouraged because when the tank plays cover, or reallt whenever anyone on your team has a subpar game they blame the tank no matter what. I see it all day when Im on support. No matter what happens they blame the tank. So placements were enough tanking for me. I was going yo try and improve and work upwards but its just too annoying getting trash talked by a junkrat playing against a pharah. Hats off to y'all who are good tanks right now. 🍻
4:30 thats what ive been saying for seasons Like i am amazed that someome can be a low ranked tank by the amount of healing and resources pumped into them by their supp in like silver for instance they see the tank and only the tank they stick to hiss ass and if youre behind them they wont look back at you This works both ways tbf but tank wise you maje althe plays
you should almost always be going for medpacks..... even with supports. you rather your upport be healing someone who doesn't have a medpack nearby. Only time to avoid the medpack is if the fight is over, give the ult charge to support
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
I've watched GM tank streams where they struggle with this. Sometimes it's just hard to not take a face full of spam. But the best tanks are conscious of it and manage better than others.
YES. also sometimes in gm the dps/supports are so cracked that if you can survive after taking a face load of damage you are doing good enough.
Also, healing recieved by: {Insert source}
So, for example Ball, he recieved X amounts of heals from Health Packs and X amounts of healing from Supports. BUT make it so that it shows "assisted" healing, like, Sombra hacks on HPs (or maybe put that on healing received from "supports").
@@Sac-chanWrong comment xdd
So basically as Tank: Make more efficient use of your team's finite amount of resources. Make sure the value you provide is worth the resources you and your team use. ("Return on investment")
How to get more value:
1. Tempo: Play to your hero's cooldown times. Go in when you have cooldowns, back off when you don't (Tank gets more value)
2. Cover/downtime: Play around cover and stop taking so much unnecessary damage. Use 3 seconds of downtime now to regain HP/CD's instead of taking loads of damage in the open, and then being out of the fight for 10 seconds. Also your supports have to spend less time and resources to heal you can spend it shooting the enemy team or pocketing DPS. (Entire team gets more value)
3. Play to your hero's range when positioning. More time at effective range = more damage output, and less damage taken (Tank and support get more value)
4. Keep your armor up, it makes healing more effective. (Supports get more value).
Armor what do you mean? Isn’t armor the first thing goes away when they start doing damage to you before you staring losing normal health?
@@sparta218 yes but every armor health point is 50% valuable then normal health
Yes yes yes. More players need to make use of cover.
Obsessed with the guy in chat who asked "is nightbot a real person?"
its at 22:04
No way someone actually asked that 💀
@@itzpurple_queen9711 21:51 here you go
It gets clearer if you keep watching a bit
nightbot sneaky and mean moderator inside of twitch chat i think i love you you make me wanna cry you make me wanna die i love you i love you i love you i love you nightbot
at what time did they ask that so I can point and laugh
@@Birdfl3w 22:04
I've been saying for a long time that they need to add "healing received" to the scoreboard
This is what I want so badly. I love it when the tank flames me on support even though they are getting double pockets.
people are just going to use that to blame supports for not being pocketed, whatever the amount actually is, or comparing with the other tank
@@bragoen Maybe have it be just a % then? like the tank got 33% (for example) of all the healing that was done by our team or something like that.
Maybe that'd be less toxic.
@@lend9754the actual number would probably be better because this could be really skewed by one flex and one main support. For example if I heal everyone except the tank on mercy but my ana is only healing the tank, chances are they’re definitely still going to have the highest number that DPS might be telling me I’m not doing my job right even though I’ve done everything right
that could be nice, but then also the doom / winton will fly off into narnia, preventing any possible healing, and then point at how little healing they've received.
if you play dive (ball especially) for more than a bit you'll notice there are people who can't do without dumping resources into their tank, they're addicted to it, they don't want to be responsible for securing kills. and many don't understand that baiting cooldowns and holding attention is value. no no, ball is only "tanking" when spinning around obj during overtime, at all other times he's "f you pick a nice comfy shield"
DING DING DING - you’ve described dive tanking below diamond
In my low elo experience if you dont contest the enemy tank more often than not, even if i have 3 people on me my team will get rolled by the reinhard with no healers
one time i had a mercy pocketing me as ball for the whole game. i asked her to look at someone else in between rounds, but she wouldn't. then after the game, she flamed me for taking damage.
They’re very rude about it to, doesn’t matter if you kill both healers or one of them and a dps. It’s your fault every time somehow cause your dps don’t understand the other tanks range. They’ll be getting beamed in the face by zar as widow and scream at the tank instead
Or, their tank pushes us without us able to stop them
This is also why very rarely in some games you'll have someone throw or disconnect and the team will unironically do better because you have 1 player that might have been demanding resources and not outputting that much AND your team also has the mindset of "we don't have a tank/dps/support we have to play more conservatively"
yeah I've had this happen a couple times
One time a tank decided to throw bcuz he felt he was carrying. He stood around as we pushed the cart and won
One time a tank decided to “stat chase” by playing far behind like a widow, trying not to die. I was using mercy falling back to heal him. He was getting kills but it wasn’t enough, I was getting mad so I decided not to dmg boost or heal him til he started to engage.
After his 3rd death I decided to pocket and dmg boost until he died so I could rez, just to prove a point 😂 we ended up winning
I had this happen back before Overwatch 1 shut down. We had a D.Va that was feeding her brains out, so the enemy always had Ult pretty much every encounter. The D.Va took our complaints to the 'well see how well you do without me!' level and we straight up told her to just leave, we don't want her.
We turned it around from being stomped to steam rolling IMMEDIATELY. The D.Va was literally ALL of our problems.
This is something I never give any thought to, but the way it's explained makes me feel like I can start implementing it right away.
There's so much negative gameplay feedback when you do everything right and it just doesn't work. When I'm patient, don't absorb resources, wait for an opening or my teammates to do something and nothing happens, it feels worse than just charging in.
Its because everything he is explaining, only really works if everyone else on your team is ALSO not an idiot. Its a team game at the end of the day, if you are in silver trying to play patient and wait for your team to do something, I have news for you buddy
@@jacobfernandez813 You are absolutely right that if you are waiting for your team to make plays you are going to struggle. However, spilo doesn't tell you to wait for your team to make a play, he tells you to wait for your cooldowns before you make the play
well, wait for your team before you go in like they need to be there, but he doesnt say wait for your team to make a play, you make the play, just dont go in all by yourself LOL
Facts @@jacobfernandez813
Way to miss the point.... It's fine to charge in and play aggressively. What's not fine is to AFK on main taking a billion damage while doing absolutely nothing yet forcing your supports to blow all their fancy cooldowns on you. The point is that the resources you demand should be proportional to the value you're creating. If you're going for a big play you need to ask yourself, "is this worth forcing bap to use lamp?", "Is this worth Suzu?". Those are 25 and 15 second cooldowns respectively. The point is, if you're going to demand those CD's and attention you better get something of equal value from the other team. The problem is that so many tank players are literally doing nothing productive at all but due to having piss poor cover usage and awareness they demand these cooldowns and attention anyway. If you're gonna charge into the enemy backline and absolutely decimate them then feel free to demand lamp, suzu, everything but don't AFK on main taking pointless damage doing nothing and then spam the need healing button lmao. Furthermore, It's better to use your own cooldowns to generate value than force other players to use theirs. If you're gonna be arrogant enough to decide how other people use their cooldowns you better bring the goods and do something incredibly useful. That said, shit happens and I promise you your Ana is fine with using nade to heal you in an emergency. But don't make her randomly use it on you because you're not disciplined enough to play a corner properly. The whole enemy team could have been purpled, but no, you just couldn't resist wide peeking the Torb now could you smh.
I want a stat on the scoreboard “healing received”.
@@Patelioserm, what the sigma?! 💀
@@itzpurple_queen9711 Sigma is a term derived from the greek alphabet, but it has deeper implications throughout history. In 1785, when I was born (I was born a few times) I was born. At that time, my birth occured. sigma meal what the sigma skibidi bop bop bop sigma meal, skibidi slicers
this would genuinely improve the game
This made me think of when we had the overhealing stat
@@Patelios ✍️✍️✍️🔥🔥🔥
Bad tanks are one of the biggest reasons why low rank Mercy players are conditioned to healbot, which is just horrible if they climb even a little bit.
You can't fix bad casual players, I'm sorry
Nah they just suck and they play a garbage character. Mercy is USELESS if you're not running a duo with a dps that's as good as the lobby/better than the lobby.
@Shiro-cc9vi
If you pocket a dps that is decent for their rank while getting some resurrections off, then Mercy can be fine.
She's not great, but she's only horrible if she healbots.
@@BengaIaasHer movement is her most valuable resource. She’s not making plays besides rez and getting a sneaky kill here and there, but she enables the rest of the team to do so as long as they play cover and can hit their shots. I’m low rank and I play mercy pretty often, but if the team isn’t doing well already, her healing isn’t enough to keep them up, so I’ll swap to someone else who makes sense. When I have the right team Mercy can still have fantastic value, but people don’t notice that because they’re not seeing plays being made or being kept up 1v5 in everyone’s view. She’s mobile and knowing all the tech she has provides a lot of value because a good mercy won’t be flying at 160000 ft for everyone to see. In low ranks you do have to healbot much more but I still do my best to get kills and boost wherever possible if I’m playing her. I don’t think she’s the most useless especially in dive meta right now but I’ll see a lot of enemy mercy players who just don’t understand what to do on her and end up getting mad that *i* kill them. Brother, you flew into my team after a genji and my team is forgetting you exist. Come on 😭
Mercy has a negative connotation for a LOT of reasons but she’s still played and gets value in GM&Masters ranks. She’s team dependent so she is not always the right pick but she’s far from useless
@@spindless my point is that good tanks and good players overall know how to use positioning, which then allows their supports to do more than healing, but some support players are taught to be healbots and that is especially bad for Mercy because of how low her HPS is.
I used to be a tank player but resently swapped to support because i was suffering mentally on tank and now i started playing tank again and its very hard for me, so ty spilo for this video i think it helped me alot! (im dia3 on tank rn but 2 seasons ago was masters 3)
Preach. Playing support or DPS along side a tank seeking out how to get shot and blow the teams cooldowns in the most creatively useless ways is incredibly frustrating. This also applies to the rest of the team expecting resources such as heals when they themselves are not actively taking damage. Go heal yourself. You are allowed to not peek and shoot when you are low HP.
It's all gambling with what's available. It always feels like I'm playing poker when my team is playing slots.
"the most creatively useless ways" is such a lovely way to phrase it
Learning to play around your armor is extremely valuable for a tank
Hands down, this is the best video I have ever seen about how to play tank. You always keep delivering with this kind of videos Spilo. Absolutely brilliant work
Spilo be improving deadass! Your language, in-game pedagogy (and use of example at the same time as explanation), stress/intensity of speech (for watch interest = better attention in your videos) and tempo is good in this video!
I wish i could see damage taken on the scoreboard, and maybe healing received. It would show a far more complete story based on stats, which way too many people (including me) rely on to understand teammates play.
LMAO THE FLATS PART
Is there beef I don't know about?
@@najeecoates4 nah they just poking fun at eachother
Lmao the hadi jumpscare got me
I would appreciate similar videos for each role
okay this is so fuckin weird. I remember watching your basic tank guide when I was new to the game like 6 years ago. I saw this video pop up in my recommended and instantly remembered the name. your guide must have been the most useful for me haha. glad to see you are still around.
This has to be one of the most educational video of Overwatch. Thanks a lot for the spread
I wish I could show this to my Zarya that I had the other day… Me (Moira) and other support (Kiriko) was healing her CONSTANTLY the entire match I was even using the trick to charge my heal meter faster (spamming damage button)
And the stats reflected it! Even still she was dying more than our dps which I barely even looked at cause she demanded so many resources.
And then she had the nerve to call us out for beeing useless healers and that if only she got pocketed like enemy Zarya we would win.
We had over twice the healing combined than the enemy supports and it was ALL into her to TRY to stop her from feeding… Never have I played a game with Moira and had so little impact.
The editing on this video is FIRE
absolutely! spilo team is stepping it up, love it
Not sure if you've covered this before: How should you adapt your dps/support style to a given tank? I've been watching tank guides to try get into the mindset but it hasn't fully answered the question.
I get the "just poke/brawl/dive with the tanks" but the way each tank does their job in a given role feels so different. For example, diving with a winston vs ball, brawling with a JQ vs rein or poking with an orisa(i think shes poke lol) vs sig etc etc.
Anyway good vid as always
This video is insanely important I think! I used to be stuck Silver until I started playing Queen. And her beeing so squishy made me play cover sooo much more and it instantly got me to gold 2.
Probably just from not demanding much at all from my supports allowing them to pop off and get impact.
Every tank should play her imo just to learn not to take excessive damage.
4:40 This is an important thing for support players to learn too, I think. A lot of them seem to have the attitude that the tank is entitled to resources but the DPS have to _earn_ them by getting some kind of visible results first. But, of course, the results are heavily impacted by the resources given. And honestly, sometimes that feeding tank is gonna survive more easily if you help the off-angling DPS instead.
You think people are playing tank in the first place?
What is the point of this question? Obviously people are playing tank
I am
Ever seen Rein mains? Ever seen Doom mains?
@@Pekara121 the dudes who are either Gods or absolute dogshit? Yeah, we do see the latter, just never the first one BECAUSE THEY AREN'T IN THE PLAYER POOL THAT CONSTITUTE THE MAJORITY OF PLAYERS.
Few of us still do, although Venture has been calling me to the Damage role.
Recently had a Tank in MH's that was basically playing backline Tank, they refused to take point unless everyone else was basically already dead on the team. At one point, my Illari decided she was going to try and help the DPS. So here's me, pumping constant healing into my Illari who's dueling the enemy Zarya, she's barely staying alive because of my Support, and my Orisa (missing maybe 75 health) is just staring at us, watching us struggle to fight a Zarya that's getting full Support from her team. And then they throw themselves off the map because we weren't dedicating every bit of healing to them.
There's a lot of Tank players out there that need to understand that we can't dedicate all of our resources to someone who isn't earning them. We're not going to pocket you, sitting in a corner, away from the fight, and sometimes we might have to sacrifice you if the DPS is making a big play that will win the fight. As a Support player, sometimes you have to let someone die for someone else to win the fight, even if the one dying, is you. Trade value is important.
Going to try and implement this more precisely tonight, it has partially been subconscious but now I need to actually put in in the forefront of my mind
Or you can try open queue.
For me when I play tank it's the opposite where my team mostly healers rage at me that I'm not doing my job; at times its rather difficult because it can be lets say enemy team focus me even if let's say I have cover or angle. Sometimes sure it can be that I'm bad as we all have our days, or I make mistakes, but I have had many people maybe even DPS but mostly healers just raging and yelling in the chat.
genuinely insightful content. As a new OW2 player, thanks
The second roadhog kill on bastion literally said “saved by 2 players”, made it funnier lol 15:04
As for the "a lot of pressure on tanks is psychological", if is not intuitive then the gameplay is wrong, if is not the same pressure or similar to other roles, the gameplay/game loop is wrong.
Loved the video
I love your delivery brother. Hope your channel grows.
I love these little concept breakdowns
"YOU CAN SEE IT ON YOUR SCREEN" *zooms in on your face instead of the thing we're supposed to be seeing*
dide like it's my first time here watching a "guide" and honestly when I saw Paint fired up I knew I am gonna learn some deep shit here - 0 regrets
Stopped playing tank since last season, I can feel that the outcome of the game is less on me, but I’m enjoying the game much more now. Feels nice to play a hero I want and don’t get 4 on the enemy switching to make my games the most unfun experience. At most 2 people switch to counter me when im doing good.
Ah, tank. The prescription drug doctors give to someone who simply isnt stressed enough in life. 100% disatisfaction guarantee.
Thank you I needed to see this video. I have a much better understanding of tank than I did before. I’ll try to demand less resources and play around my CDs. As a solo tank it’s hard to know when you’re the problem but I’ll try my best.
incredible video, very informative and information dense.
You could make the last advice part of the video a video on it's own....So useful.
The guy named Paul Blart in your chat, but his IGN is Kevin James, but he's on a team with Paul Blart had me rolling.
I'm gonna have to start copy pasting this video in some of my team chats.
Definitely agree with those who mention healing received and damage taken being a stat. Wouldn't be helpful for the whole team, but definitely would be helpful feedback as a tank to know how you and your team are using resources and can kind of help support when you need more or less resources.
Just a wall of like 1000000 words in team chat when your tank asks for healing
ive had trouble on ball staying alive, but i find him easier to allow my teammates to do things without the need to put so much resource into me as i have adaptive shield and fastest rollouts if done correctly, but i suck at grappling and determining whether i should soft push or not
What about when you're just trying to build ult?
For example winston attack on numbani where you could intentionally take a full ana pocket just to build a quick nano (especially since it's hard for her to find angles on the enemy).
Like sure you're taking a lot of resources for nothing but you're building your win con.
The overall wincon in any match is getting that resource/value ratio better than the other team. Why risk losing the initial fight just to build nano when you can play efficiently and win the fight without nano, then have it for the next fight?
@Gabe7Gal because you can't always do that, especially in a ranked environment. Ana has a hard time getting anywhere to pressure the enemy on 1st point numbani especially if there's a hog or something camping the entrance to highground. Similarly against a lot of comps winston can have trouble getting in a position to do much without getting instantly blown up if you don't have a tracer/sombra setting up behind to engage with you.
So it would make sense if the winston can't really get a good engage, and the ana can't get any space to get value outside of healing, that you might be better off farming a fast nano that gives your winston a chance to make a play. If it's just ana healing winston and both dps and tank poking him, you'll get the nano before they get their ults. While if winston tries to not take damage and you might struggle to ever break through.
That's at least how I understand it, then again I've never gotten above low masters so I'm not sure if I'm missing something.
Sorry for the long reply
The examples were very well done and I'm definitely gonna try to apply these in my games as best as I can.
Great stuff as always spilo keep it up
Did you get an editor for this one? It's got some fun editing
Every roadhog that has ever been on my team should watch this video
You are totally right that people overemphasize the value of tank. I'm still on my first 50 games, not even able to play in comp mode, and I won a game as Winston where someone said it was a "Tank Diff". It was almost certainly not that, since I don't usually do half that well. Yeah, I was all up in their face, but I only survived because I was able to jump back and get healed. I was not playing well mechanically for sure. I suppose it means Tank works too well at attracting attention.
Getting lectured about economics in Overwatch was not what I was expecting today
I just play tank like a glorified DPS most of the time
and that is unironically how you should be playing tank in the current meta
Shades of Seagull saying he doesn't play DVA, he plays "Fat Tracer".
Man you are so awesome! Thanks for the tips!
Man tank is so stressful
Resources consumed vs defered would be a nive metric to have in OW, starting with healing recieved would be nice
I’m like 3 weeks into this game so I’m sorry for the dumb question. What does CD mean ?
Cooldown, usually used as a noun describing any ability with any cooldown timer when used. Bionade, Immortality Field, Helix Rockets, and Rocket Punch are examples of CDs
Pretty much every ability has a CD (cooldown). Usually, strong abilities have a longer CD. Like anas sleep and nade or Baptistes immortality field.
@@gavisman5638 makes sense, thank you
I'm ngl, I thought I was gonna watch another bogus spectating video, but I forgot that Spilo is actually a coach and knows what he's talking about. Hell, I didn't even know how many times I died cuz I thought I was in the green, but my supports were in the red cuz of me.
This is a whole lot of words to say do nothing. That's the key to tanking in OW2. The first tank to waste a resource loses, so it's best to wait and do nothing until someone makes a mistake. Do nothing until an opportunity unfolds, don't create opportunities yourself.
You must've not watched the video I guess
You DO create opportunities by positioning and timing yourself to do so. An Orisa isn't "creating an opportunity" when she just holds w into a turret bastion, she's just wasting support resource. But she IS creating an opportunity when she shoots and a bastion from a covered off angle while he turrets, and then charges afterwards.
Is resource management the reason why people say support or tank is harder than DPS? Generally speaking
Part of it yes. DPS also involves some resource management though. Tracer for example is very good at baiting out cooldowns.
I think saying any role is harder than another is entirely subjective. Dps have recourses too and anyone who can just turn their brain off and kill is probably not in their proper rank yet.
If we look at pro play, often the best players are on DPS because at the top it requires top tier mechanics along with playing smart.
For us ranked players it’s all about preference and your personal skill set
I think of it this way. On tank, you need good macro game sense; on Support, you need good micro game sense; on DPS, you need good mechanics. You obviously need everything on every role, but the skill sets generally are weighted by the roles like this. Varies character to character within the roles.
@@rickmich18 I think it is more accurate to say that DPS are both more straightforward and have "fewer" responsibilities in the sense that everything a DPS has to do a tank or support also has to do(with a couple exceptions, but those characters have unique mechanics like mercy), but they also have to do additional things on top of it. So saying DPS is "easier" may not be entirely accurate, but it has a more concentrated and specific focus.
@@Rohndogg1I agree. The mechanical expectations for Dps are higher because you have less direct responsibilities. If I’m on Reaper, I don’t have to worry about keeping my Ram alive, because I can’t heal, but it’s more crucial I hit my shotgun shots because that’s my entire value as a character.
Funny because in OW1 i was like 70/25/10 support/DPS/tank for S1-S5 when i quit playing.
Then in OW2, i was 100/0/0 up until Season 11, i started doing tank, been holding a 70% win rate with zarya and 60~ with winston, rein, and all been with ease.... up to plat now.
I guess because i follow what you explained in this video. As a support, i know not to face tank just to face tank. I know if i am taking tons of damage for a little poke, that both my supports have to be healing me, thus letting my DPS die.
#1 thing i hate as support is when the tank just suicides in again and again. And then cries at lack of heals and my low healing value. And we end up losing
#2 when i pocket tank, 20k healing per 10mins and we still lose then the tank blames DPS. And i have to explain that the DPS failed because had both supports playing "Find Lemmiwinks" with the tank
#3 go from not pocking a feeding tank to, to pocking the tank to TRY and do something different, and we end up somehow winning. Then the tank just brags about "see it is that easy just pocket tank" then they get that mindset even harder about how they should face tank everything and get both healers up their ass.
Edit: and by no means am i a a perfect tank. Sometimes as rein, i prob should be more agro and charge in. And i am sure sometimes as zarya i get a little narrow eyed onto the support in the back and push to hard and not retake cover for heals.
Crazy value
The Truth is if you're playing tank you're doing it wrong.
Thank you for the tips!
Ive understood this concept for a very long time as a tank main but could never portray it in the way you just did
Here’s something not a lot of people talk about, I’m a gm tank player and my main account got banned. I have a low ranked account that I
bought bronze, after 3 months and a 90% win rate I am gold 2. I completely crush the enemy tank to the point where I am spawn camping them almost every single game and every win gives me 15-20% rank increase. It takes sooooo long and I don’t even want to be smurfing on this account I just want to get back to gm but it is taking so long to rank up even though I am literally winning every game. I play on average 2 hours a day so about 6 games. I am literally ruining these peoples games and I am trying so hard just to get out of these low ranks but it takes so long to rank up. In old overwatch a 90% win rate would give you tons of sr points per win, it took about 15 games to get from bronze to diamond.
Sometimes as support it is better to not heal your tank at all if your tank is only feeding.
As support in lower ranks you need to know who of your team can make the difference.. or counter the enemy carry player. Or even protect your backline vs enemy good flanker.
So as tank when you not get enough heals there is a chance you not worth it.
Love the pokemon osts
Editor did great on this video
I have never fully understood tempo until today
This is great, please do a vid about supports!
played a game of push last night as Juno, game was over in like 5 mins or so (Loss). I had 7k healing and everyone else had 3k or below because my hog was taking so much damage I couldn't take my eyes off him for a second, it's been a minute since I've seen a tank be critical every second of the match.
Title should be "you're queuing wrong"
this vid has helped me realize how ti improve thanks
i hope every tank i end up with has seen this video from now on
Standing around not taking extra healing from your team is the right move but ur team will flame you cause they think ur afk
i always fuck up zarya. but i do well when we have a reaper or someone else to tank for me and distract the enemy so i can bubble them, i'm still used to play bodyguard zarya.
that being said, my best tanks are dva, ramattra, winston and sigma. in that order, i think. i play mostly support, so i know to keep LoS, not cause trouble for my supports and peel if necessary.
my tank is already perfect (i dont play the game anymore)
"Tanking is not fun, even when you are winning." -Me
How do you think a tank passive giving +20 fov would work ?
great advices = )
Nepo babies catching strays from Spilo 😂
Rip, you’re gonna make the 10 remaining tank mains more conscious of this stuff I’ve intuited from playing all roles and now I’m gonna have to be more conscious of it just to match. I’m pretty average on mechanical skill and while it never got me past high Diamond having some intuition of this was always my edge
very helpful!
I can see it already. Supports going to flame tanks more now, cause they see this and think they know tank. While inting and doing nothing on the high DPS low healjng supports
For sure if healers don’t switch it can be a problem but that’s also a tank problem if they take all the resources. You didn’t watch the video did you.
@@Mepper No I did I have won games cause I understood my Moira and Zen weren't healing. So I adjusted as Reinhardt and played really defensive and took space whenever my DPS got a pick or whenever I had ult
Spotted the diamond
@@PhoKingCastro So in other words you adjusted your playstyle to demand less resources?
@@Gabe7Gal yes
I get plat 5 on tank and this is recommended to me, getoutofmyhead mop man plsssssssssss
Was that an agents of shield clip with Stan Lee?
I'm not a good tank. I placed in like gold 5 trash tier. I just got so discouraged because when the tank plays cover, or reallt whenever anyone on your team has a subpar game they blame the tank no matter what. I see it all day when Im on support. No matter what happens they blame the tank.
So placements were enough tanking for me. I was going yo try and improve and work upwards but its just too annoying getting trash talked by a junkrat playing against a pharah.
Hats off to y'all who are good tanks right now. 🍻
4:30 thats what ive been saying for seasons
Like i am amazed that someome can be a low ranked tank by the amount of healing and resources pumped into them by their supp in like silver for instance they see the tank and only the tank they stick to hiss ass and if youre behind them they wont look back at you
This works both ways tbf but tank wise you maje althe plays
biggiecheese absolutely carried the video on god
Tanks outplaying their teams is so funny. Imagine, you are forcing your support CDs instead of enemies' resources lol
So i should only make descions to go in when im not wasting my healers resources.
Basically how to be good at tank: don't feed lol
And don't not feed by making both support be glued to your left and right ass cheek
nice edit!!!!
teams for the 2nd vod are STACKED frfr
Tired of supports that require you stand directly behind the tank in order to dps. Hope some watch this.
I’ve been playing DPS doom for years, he’s never been a tank in my eyes
I only play qp but at this point i just expect my supports to afk pretty much the whole game. Thank god for med packs.
you should almost always be going for medpacks..... even with supports. you rather your upport be healing someone who doesn't have a medpack nearby.
Only time to avoid the medpack is if the fight is over, give the ult charge to support
Just watching tank gameplay makes my head hurt
Holy he cooked with this one
PaulBlart just wanted Spilo to tell his friend he was messing up because when PaulBlart says it, KevinJames doesn't listen. We all have that friend.