10 Star Trek Twists That The Actors Hated
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- Twists may keep the fans entertained but that doesn't mean the actors always love them.
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Weyoun 'dying because he said the wrong thing at the wrong time' wasn't a twist, it was absolutely how we expected Weyoun to die.
Its how he died at least 3 times!
My mom & I always laughed when Weyoun died.
This. Vorta were supposed to be administrators, diplomats, and battle commanders, in that order. It makes perfect sense for Weyoun to die for saying the wrong thing, as in all 3 capacities, Vorta are responsible for their words more than anything else. Naturally, uttering the wrong words means they have failed in their duty and thus are expected to die, if not from the direct consequences of their failure (i.e. giving the wrong order in battle and their ship being destroyed as a result), then from their suicide implants upon orders from a Founder.
And it was so incredibly satisfying because of the sheer number of times he'd say a horrible thing and NOT die.
I was kinda hoping they'd abuse the clone thing and find a way to kill him in every contact between the two. I hated Weyoun.
To be fair. Wayun getting killed for something he said is super on point. It was bound to happen sooner or later.
happened the first ep he was in. Makes sense it'd also happen in the last.
@@NeoTechni And maybe that was the idea?
@@mustang6599 All was as it should be.
The Wayun killed by Worf was the best and funniest death for the character.
So true.they just couldn't figure out how to shut up
Voyager could have used a 3-6 episode story arc on their final journey home, rather than just a longer regular episode. I love Voyager and it'll be a nostalgic favorite forever, but it's definitely a show that could have been better with some slightly different approaches the the writing.
More simply put: They could have been better with **better** writing. :D
Voyager's writers couldn't even ration out 38 photon torpedoes, or figure out that an ensign is supposed to make lieutenant. Given that, you can't really expect competent performance from them.
I mean, DS9 had an eight (maybe ten?) part finalé, it's such a shame the Voyager team didn't like multi-episode stories.
Absolutely! They could have discovered the transwarp hub a few episodes ago and then forged a deep game plan with sudden unexpected help from future Janeway...
it's so funny how people think that writers make all the decisions!?!?
"In cold blood"? Garak's people are literally being genocided when this scene takes place.
The blood boils.
Genocide is not a verb, they were being killed.
@@colinp2238 It was technically genecide.
If you shoot an unarmed man who can't defend himself, that's "cold blood" and shooting or not shooting him would do nothing to change what was happening to his world at that moment. Garrak killed him because he wanted to. Not because it'd somehow help his people.
@@thatotherted3555 Maybe in America ut as I said it cannot be conjugated so is not a verb. I genocide, you genocide, we genocide just doesn't work does it?
@@colinp2238 The idea that the Cardassians were not the targets of genocide in that moment is just flat out wrong. Since the Changeling literally ordered the genocide of the Cardassians not moments before. As if we don't have enough genocide denial in the real world, we have to have fictional genocide denial too. This video definitely has a lot of bad takes.
I think Nichelle Nichols was rightfully annoyed that Uhura was portrayed as incompetent, a Starfleet communications officer unable to communicate with Klingons in Star Trek VI: the Undiscovered Country.
Well they had the bit with Chekov narrating "the universal translator would be recognized!" but that's no reason they couldn't have had the translator report what the Klingon was saying, translate their response to Klingon and they say it live. All the stuff with books was ridiculous.
What about that stupid scene on Nibus III where Uhura stands on hill dancing naked with Ostrich feathers. Demeaning to her character.
Uhura was no Hoshi Sato. Sato was much more of a true polyglot.
@@user-yr9lt7dz8k yes, and Hoshi basically created the Universal Translator.
But Uhura probably knew more about the circuits and stuff than Hoshi did.
You weren't kidding about the montage about her not in it. When Worf is remembering his life on DS9 before leaving, he somehow forgets about being married.
Damn right on the #1 spot. Every Trek fan knows they did Terry Farrell and Jadzia dirty. Even if they didn't want the character as a recurring role they didn't have to end it like that.
Recurring would have been easy, just send her on a mission behind enemy lines and only check in every few episodes, but basically TPTB didn't want to reduce the attractive female count and any other female character brought in would have gotten the same or worse reception from the fans.
Didn't something like this happen to Claudia Christian in Babylon 5's final season? What is it with producers and their female leads?
@@dannyhutton If I remember right, she wanted more money and was denied, so she quit.
Not dirtier than LA Law's elevator death for Diana Muldaur's character. But that's how show-runners been pulling the strings for TV shows they always play dirty.
@@Q80Warlock True Dat
Lol, gotta love that list about Robert Beltrans 10 most hated Voyager things :)
Almost as much as I love your name.
Can't believe it's only 10
@@user-zh4vo1kw1z yeah true that… :)
Hey, he came back for Prodigy… so…
@@joermnyc money ain't gonna earn itself :p
And that return has so far been one line. Kinda representative for Chakotay...
Seems like TNG-era producers in general treated their female actresses badly: Denise Crosby, Gates McFadden, Terry Farrell.
It only seems like that because that was super duper 100% very much the case.
Um, because they did. Don't forget Marina Sirtis, Jennifer Lien, Jeri Ryan, and Jolene Blalock. All treated very poorly.
they wanted same money as main men and they didnt get it
@@robmccaig9269 It went waaaaay beyond that.
Rick Berman much?
Jeffrey Coombs has probably had more death scenes than anyone else in Star Trek. I will forgive Weyoun’s last one as it lead to that great line “that was my last Weyoun!”
He was DS9's Kenny:
"Omygod! Garak killed Weyoun!"
"You Cardassian bastard!"
@@willmfrank lol
@@willmfrank giggles
@@willmfrank 🤣
Every time a main female cast member wants out, their character gets violently killed, as if the producer is actually kicking them out the front door, telling them not to come back.
I hated what happened to Jadzia and feel they handled it poorly. It was so sudden and many were so impressed with how she handled the klingons and her chemistry with Worf was epic.
And then they ignored her in the finales montages
Thank goodness they never figured out a way to put Worf on Voyager. It's bad enough that TNG became a Klingon soap opera. DS9 took it to ridiculous lengths.
They did jadzia and terry dirty. Fuck Rick Berman
It was a contract dispute, Terry Farrell just wanted less screen time to pursue other projects. Paramount executives gave her ultimate, Stay full-time or get killed off series.
@@paulhunter6742 Technically not a contract dispute as the contract was just for six years. Terry simply decided not to go with the full time gig for a one-year renewal. It was offered to her. She refused. End of story.
The one thing I never liked about Voyager was almost every episode felt like it ended 5 minutes too soon. There was never a reflection on the events that took place, like on the other ST series.
I've always hated how Jadzia dies. It makes little sense in the story and then she completely disappears. It would have made so much more sense for her to die in the episode with Worf where she gets shot. He could have made the rendezvous, completed his mission and made a huge contribution to the war effort and her death could have meant something.
Good point!!
Her demise was all about real-world payback, not storytelling.
@@RaineStudio Yeah, I know... sadly
Jadzia should died in battle, preferably at helm of the Defiant. Or with Klingon Batlath in her hands.
@@paulhunter6742 Yeah, that would have been a satisfying moment. I could see her sacrificing herself to save the crew or something, maybe making a little speech to Ben Sisko over the view screen. Then Worf would have loved her even more for having a warrior's death
My beef with Generations has nothing to do with Kirk's death. It was that his Nexus experience was a made up woman who he supposedly didn't marry. But if the Nexus gave you your heart's desire maybe Edith Keeler? Or bringing his son back or Dr. Marcus? This never seen woman seemed like a cheap excuse for his being in the Nexus.
Yet didn't Kirk remark to Picard that THIS time Kirk would stay behind, marry her, because the Galaxy owed him one. So Kirk is imaging a previous relationship and not a made-up Nexus fantasy thing.
i always assume he is just jumping around moments in his life where he could have taken a different path but didn't again and again and again.
Dr. Marcus for sure would have a been a much better choice, along with his son. Even the young Native girl would have done well! That was a hard scene for the child that I was!
I recall a line Mr Spock said in one Classic Trek film. Kirk was climbing El Captain mountain range, bare handed. He lost his grip. falls nearly to his death, but Spock rescued him pair jetpack boots. Kirk says, I was sure going to die. Spock says, It's not possible Captain. You're not Alone.
@@jacquesmassard9226 In the novelization he does just that. Goes back and fixes every wrong decision he's ever made, but each time the illusion unsatisfying to him. On a subconscious level Kirk knew it wasn't real before Picard meets him and tells him it isn't.
The thing with Jadzia is that - as the documentary points out - the core cast really evolved over the years to be an extended family. so there were plenty of characters to have on the show and work around Terry's need for a bit more family time. Especially if the plan was always to end after the very next season..
My biggest disappointment in star trek was data's death. It just ruined the whole damn thing for me. Even though he comes back in another form it still isn't the same.
It wasn't Data's death but him downloading his personality into B4 that got me ticked off.
Total waste of a important character in TNG. However, I loved his return as Dr Sponge in Enterprise.
Tend to agree with you on Iched (the charahter, at least) and Jadzia. But two other charakters whom I found were done a disservice with how they were written out were Trip Tucker (just a last moment kick in the teeth) and Kess (not only how she left in the first place but also how they played out her return as a hatefull older Kess).
Agreed. On a semi related note, Trip and T’Pol deserved to have a happy moment together following the gut punch that was demons and terra prime.
The whole thing with Kess was a mess from the get go.
I'll agree with you about how they handled Kes, but not Trip. It was all the more shocking and sad because Trip's death was so sudden and unexpected.
Fking Harry Kim being attractive
That character ended up not being very relevant to the plot/show anyway
Kes was WAY more interesting and her short life span could have contributed to some interesting stories
But then again it’s Voyager so Kes would have probably becoming irrelevant also
Trip was the first to come to my mind as well. I was so pissed when that happened and could barely get through the rest of it! Jadzia was awful too though. Although it didn't affect me as much as the others, Kess' departure and return made zero sense.
I wish Voyager's finale was just 20 minutes longer. You spent the entire series hoping to see Voyager get home, and while they did get home, they're home for about 30 seconds before credit.
I love the news story about Voyager in the alternate timeline. I wanted to see that ship take a lap around San Francisco and the crew be welcomed home formally. See Admiral Paris hold his grandchild. Harry see his folks again. Have Barclay shake their hands and faint.
if you read the books "Homecoming" and "Farther Shore" it covers some of those things. The Enterprise E is also one of the ships escorting Voyager to Earth. They purposely take it nice and slow so the fleet of ships can have counselors for all 150 crew. Deanna was talking to Picard about it in one scene in the book.
Phlox deferring the decision to Archer is standard military rule. A decision like this would not be made by the doctor, but the officer in command.
I agree. Phlox was strong on his own and I LOVED him.
Tasha was my childhood celebrity crush, and Skin of Evil is always a big tearjerker still when I watch it. The memorial at the end always gets me. Happy to learn Patrick Stewart saw the injustice in how her leaving the show was handled.
i think Takei knows Sulu better than Pegg does. i think they should defer to the guy who's lived with the character every day for 60 years.
The thing that struck me about Sulu's being gay was that after all the hype, the movie scene was so fleeting that if you blinked, you'd miss it. That guy who came to pick them up could have been his brother for all we saw. Or did I miss something in the dialogue?
If I hadn't heard the news about it, I would have thought the guy was his father or uncle as he looked older than Lt. Sulu.
Yeah, big let down. Do it right, or don't do it at all IMO.
You missed the embrace?
@@peterthx Family members can embrace too.
@@shibolinemress8913 not the way they embraced.
So basically what you're saying is the managers (producers) were for the most part treating the actors like "it's our show and you'll do as your told". Sounds like most managers I've known.
I do have to agree with William Shatner Kirks death was underwhelming for me. For such an iconic character within the the Trek universe it was a let down.
It was lame as hell and the original version where he gets shot in the back by Soran was just as lame too.
At least you can say Kirk died "on the bridge".LOL
@@alucard624 But it would have had a certain poetic justice--dying like so many redshirts had done for him.
He should have gone down with his ship. That was his first and true love.
@@RoburDrake Unlike Janeway, Kirk never took pleasure in the death of his crew. So no.
What I hated mostly about Jadzia's death was that Worf would lose his 2nd mate. For such a recurrent and awesome character, I wouldve wanted him to be happy and ....stay happy.
I know the Klingon way is hard ...but come on, give the man a break.
I so agree with this. So infuriating! She and Worf could have had amazing adventures together, and we could have seen them☹️😡
I agree with Takei, because it's confusing the character with the actor. That just seems insulting to his skill as an actor. An actor's entire job is to be a different person.
Takei supported the change after it was explained to him.
@@CaptainFabulous84 no he didn't. I saw him give a speech on how he hated this change, at FanExpo long after the movie came out
@@CaptainFabulous84 you mean he bent the knee.
Don't you think he was just salty that he wasn't given the option to portray Sulu as gay? You're right, an actor's job is to be a different person (which is, sadly, an issue nowadays) but I can see why he'd be resentful, if he asked Rodenberry to make Sulu gay, only to be shot down. I can understand where Roddenberry came from. It was a different time. I still think Takei should've supported the change as it is a parallel universe. It doesn't take away from his performance.
I agree. Solu wasn't gay in TOS. So to make the character gay because the actor was gay makes no sense.
You forgot one more scene!.. how the producers decided to end the enterprise D.
Having it be destroyed by a small bird or prey, that’s not an epic way to end a great legacy.
Yes, I recall reading about how upset the six-foot Enterprise filming model was over it in its memoirs, complained to the producers all through the shoot.
The 12-foot saucer section model brought in just for the crash-landing stunt has been quoted as having a blast filming it though.
I was upset with the way they handled icheb’s death. I feel the character deserved better. I also hope they don’t show Q’s son in Picard because it would anger me to see him after he allowed his friend to die in that manner.
Luckily, STP isn't star trek so you can just ignore that prolix ridden nonsense!
You mean Q's son should have intervened so Icheb doesn't die (or at least doesn't die so horribly)?
@@Diggnuts lol tough for you that it is Star Trek and will always be Star Trek no matter how much you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend it isn’t
Oh, actually there's potential there for Q Junior to be like, I wanted to intervene but the Continuum wouldn't let me, and he's grieving so much because it's difficult for a Q to accept loss.
@@MichlVal if they did it like that I would not be upset. At least it would be a great plot to have him show up and have seven confront him. She could say something like “he was your friend, you could have stopped it”
Shatner was right. Heroes are meant to die among their friends, and for them. Falling to one's death, pretty much alone, and for no really good reason, is more a villain's death. It's how the bad guy in Die Hard died. Whereas Spock got a true hero's death, with his friends and saving their lives. Kirk deserved that, what he got was just dismissive.
It also confuses me, because there is an earlier scene (the one where Kirk jumps his horse) where it is established that falling to your death isn't really an issue in the Nexus.
While I don't like the way they killed kirk , he did say he new he'd die alone.
the fact that guinan was alive (an echo) in the nexus and in the universe , does that mean kirk is still alive in the nexus to?
@@ken.f.c.1977 Seriously, Kirk's own words from two movies earlier. And he wasn't even alone, Picard was there
@@k1productions87 You could say that Kirk, being the only Enterprise/A person around, could be considered "alone". He was without his cohorts- I.E. Bones and Spock.
#9 Not only it’s cheap to make Sulu gay instead of all other characters, but his sexuality didn’t play into the storyline. It was just a passing moment. So it’s still symbolic.
Personally, Sulu’s sexuality was never really an issue in the show, he was the senior helmsman.
His job was not to be a gay helmsman or a straight helmsman, just to fly the ship.
If one takes Star Trek at face value, it was never mentioned by any of the rest of the crew ‘it did not matter.’
Can he fly? ‘Yes.’ Ok.
Patrick Stuart was asked about Picard’s baldness “surly by then they will have fixed male pattern baldness?”
He replied ‘by then they will not care..’ (or words to the effect of.)
It would never get mentioned because ‘it was completely irrelevant.’
George Taki was gay, and I think that is irrelevant to the fact he played a cultural icon in a ground braking tv show.
I hate how everything is sexualized these days. I don't even want hints of sexuality in the movies/tv shows/video games I watch/play.
Yes! It felt like a tick box exercise. It's one of the very few things Discovery did right was introducing Culber and Stamets as an established couple without any fanfare.
It's pretty strange that the exact same thing that Terry Farrell had requested and was vehemently denied was the exact same thing as Gates McFadden in STNG. Gates being out of season 2 was a shallow denial by the producers to her reguest for less time filming in order to do her choreography and dance. It was only the fact that Diane Muldaur didn't and wouldn't sign anymore than a 1 yr contract. Then she got offered the starring role in LA Law so she told the Producers to stick it up you know where. The only reason they chose to offer Gates a reprieve and a re-signing is that the writers expressed their 'beliefs' that trying to write a 3rd completely new character in the same number of seasons for the Chief Medical Officer was next to impossible. Since a strong character base already was established in Dr. Crusher persona, it was far more likely to succeed than the 3rd option. 1st. optio was resign Diane and she DEFINITELY wasn't coming back. 2nd option, create an entirely new character and HOPE that actor/actress brought in coalesces with the established ones in place & 3rd, Reassign Crusher from Starfleet Medical to the Enterprise supposedly at the adamant reguest from Captain Picard.
I'm 1000% with Terry Farrell in her beef with DS9's creative team.
Sulu: Kelvin is an entirely different timeline not a prequel to the original characters so it is totally a moot point.
I don't really agree about the issue with Phlox. I think Phlox choosing to tell Archer and then debate him was a huge step for both Phlox's and Archer's characters and their relationship. And more than that, it was the lens by which they brought up the debate. Agree or disagree with the decision, the whole point to me was that Archer needed to realize that there were larger implications to the decisions he would be making
"Dear Doctor" and "A Night In Sickbay" were really the turning point where Enterprise hit bottom and never returned. Leading into those two episodes, the numbers were solid. After, the series was on life support with around 450,000-550,000 viewers, TOPS, whereas before they were hitting the 1.2-2.1 million mark from everything I've read. It's really surprising they got a season 4, let alone a season 3.
@@MrPaladino and a shame they didn't get a season 5, because everything had finally come together for that show.
I think the whole episode was flawed as it seems to misunderstand the concept of evolution. Clearly whoever wrote the episode had no idea what they were talking about. As stated in tvtropes on the subject:
Artistic License - Biology:
Evolution leads species to inadvertent extinction all the time, usually from something like overspecialization, such as a single species parasite being out of luck if that species itself goes extinct. But the idea of a straight up genetic disease, somehow treatable with antibodies yet interfering with protein production to the point of death, spreading enough to doom an entire species, is simply nonsense.
Phlox believes, based on scant and untested evidence from less than 2 days of information gathering and genetic profiling, that the Menk will someday be the dominant sentient species on the planet if the Valakians go extinct. But assuming future evolution from current trends, and making a medical conclusion based on that, is extremely arrogant and shortsighted. In addition, evolution has competition as a large component; far from 'holding them back', their relationship with the Valakians could in fact be what is driving the Menk to become more intellectually sophisticated, and Phlox is in fact dooming both species.
Conflation of theory and Scientific Theory on the topic of evolution, but reversed from the usual misconception that evolution is 'only' a theory; Archer (accurately) says that the conclusions of Phlox concerning the relationship of the Valakians and Menk are only a theory, which Phlox in his response dismisses by deferring to the Theory of Evolution. This is a non sequitur, since Archer was clearly using the term generically to refer to what in scientific parlance would be a hypothesis, something which needs testing and is certainly not a final conclusion.
Nimoy also didn't like "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield." He thought the allegory was overly simplistic to the point of being insulting to the viewer.
Technically, Sela was in 5 episodes. “The Mind’s Eye”, “Redemption I & II”, and “Unification I & II”. They really did her a disservice by not bringing her back for Nemesis, because Berman said “there was no way to fit her into the story”
That doesn't make sense, with a little tweeking she could have had Commander Donatra's role.
That was always my thought. It would have been a great closing to the character. But while they were happy to bring back literally every other actor, they didn't want Denise for some reason.
If Sela had somehow engineered Shinzon from Picard's DNA, that would've been epic.
Sela being Picard's enemy/nemesis would have worked better than the clone idea.
@@teg24601 I wonder how she (and Lore) would've taken Data's death?
Did her mother talk about him, were they friends or more i that timeline?
Rick Berman was an Achilles heel to that franchise and it showed over the progressing years.
It was only the writing that kept it alive. The production became so cool and rote and workmanlike. That's what happens when a Hollywood operator takes over from a visionary.
I respectfully disagree, Star Trek has suffered since Kurtzman took over.
@@romulan1006 both of them can be detrimental to the Star Trek franchise, you dont have to chose.
Seán, Don't tell the others, but you're my favorite TrekCulture host! 😜😁
Another fantastic list. Your love for Star Trek is so apparent and heartwarming!
Live Long and Prosper my friend! 🖖🏻👨🏻🦲👍🏻
Concur!
Bestimmt!
Sean can say the names right, unlike...
Yes, he's the best presenter here.
Bashir: And yet, In hindsight, I thought his genetic enhancement was foreshadowed in the first episode, when he goes on a rant about getting one answer wrong in his big graduation test. This very well fits with him having not dared to appear beyond natural limits, and yet someone actually did get a perfect score.
Adding to that the third season episode "Distant Voices" where it is revealed that he intentionally answered it wrong.
I agree with George Takei. Kirk's death seemed correct, but it still shocked me the first time I saw it. Why they didn't just transfer Yar is beyond me. No, Phlox did the right thing. Not only did he follow procedure, he also showed he could be trusted to giving full medical disclosure (what a doctor should do). Not only does the Captain knows this, but the audiance found this out as well.
Jadzia dies...shocked...still shocked...many years later, still shocked.
On Yar I know... just transfer the woman and move on. But no ...the writers are dicks to the fans.
To me Jadzia's death was the producers being assholes. The scene itself sucks and what they did with Dax in S7 and Worf sucks
On Deep Space Nine when Jadzia was killed my heart was torn out. And yes I know Dukat had a big role to play, especially in the finale, but I'm pissed that basically everyone on the show had one chance or another to kill him but didn't.
i agree on that. what i found even more sad, when they replaced her with that stupid little ezri girl.
Ezri was a great character
no she wasnt, she was naive, booring and childish, no match for Jadzia.
I always loved the conversation between Garek and Worf, where Garek expresses regret for not shooting Dukat in the back a year earlier when the Kokngons were boarding the station. Garek always did have the best lines, and he “fought well…… for a tailor”.
@@PeterPanik_ that was the whole point. To take the Dax symbiotic form someone who was mature and ready for it to someone who was not,
Kirk's death was wretched, clumsily approached and depicted. Wretched.
As was that whole movie.
I met Terry Farrell and asked her about that. She Told me it was also about the Money. They didn't offer her very much money to resign her contract, so that's what caused her asking about the Recurring role, like you mentioned. It was all about the MONEY ! I also think they really just wanted to have a New Actress in the show, So here comes Ezri Dax.
In my headcanon there was another Weyoun clone, unknown to the female founder, and he is still somewhere in the Gamma quadrant, eating kava nuts and rippleberries 😄
They'll always have that way out. Perhaps his genetic code was salvaged by Odo in the shuttlecraft, perhaps it's still in a storage facility in the Gamma quadrant, etc. I want Weyoun back.
I hope he’s enjoying Pizza. He loves the texture
And three extra words were all it would have taken, "That was the last Weyoun IN THIS QUADRANT." He's open to come back, but it's still understandable if the Founder doesn't immediately have a new one sent.
If it makes you feel better, in the Gamma Quadrant storyline in STO, Weyoun does come back.
@@lexxstrum He also comes back in the post-finale DS9 novels.
Echeb's eyeball being horrifically removed in Picard only served as confirmation that my decision to part ways with Star Trek based on the change in direction re: writing and plot was the right one.
Wait, you mean to tell me Star Trek _isn't_ about action and violence and brainless drama!?
Yet here you are watching this video lol
@@cwelker22I was making reference to following the franchise, going forward. That doesn't mean I stopped re-watching the original.series, or anything else produced before 2009. Don't confuse the two.
@@davidalangay1186 Fair enough 🙂
Yeah, that and Hugh dying-as I got to tell Jonathan Del Arco-THAT HURT. I mean, apparently when him and Patrick were filming their first scene, that hug was improvised and real because they were happy to see each other again and have their characters interact.
i think Enterprise is a pretty good show - loved it like every other Star Trek ;)
Enterprise took me a while to find a liking for, but now I tend to think it was the last of the great entries within the ST TV series universe.
@@buffalodebill7986 Most of the new *_Star Trek_* has ruined my life.
Imagine if Siddig was told back in the first season that he was going to be a genetically enhanced character. He was such a great actor, he could've layered that into his acting.
Makes me wish he'd gotten to play Prince Doran Martell, but accurate to the Song of Ice and Fire books rather than what D&D bastardized for tv screens.
I think Voyager's ending should have been made into a season long story with the first half dealing with the borg but with a few victories for Voyager's crew but with a few hints about the Borg base thing that appeared in endgame. The half way point of the season reveals the base is an actual thing to the the crew
The other half of the Season will be split with crew trying to survive still but the episodes will mostly be character driven but they would have to have to link with a future storyline (similar like endgame future scenes) which builds up to endgame with future Janeway going back in time. Then endgame plays out similar it wouldn't be the last episode. The last episode will be back on earth dealing with crew trying to return to a normal life while also dealing with the ramifications of the journey throughout the Delta quadrant
Don't forget that the Chakotay/7-of-9 romance was only introduced in that episode and came completely out of nowhere. It should have been developed over the season.
Endgame was the reality everybody at the top already moved on including budget reduction and this effected the script. As I remember reading that Kate Mulgrew was doing her last scene in the Captains chair.
After they said cut.They immediately tore out the chair and were dismantling the set.😳😳😳
I wanted Weyoun and the founder to be locked up so they can annoy each other in prison.
All she had to do was order him to activate his self destruct mechanism.
Well if anyone deserves a come-back in "Picard", it's Denise/Tasha. And since Q has apparently changed the time-line,.....why not?
I would say if anyone deserves to come back in Picard it’s actually Picard! Frustrating (for me, anyway) to watch a totally different character from what has been portrayed before.
@@jbotkin47 its almost like a massive amount of time has passed and both the character and actor are vastly different people now
he didn't change it in the end what happened was always supposed to happen the way it did
I totally agree with the ending of Voyager. At least one (or even twenty minutes of an) episode should've been dedicated to what the crew does. It feels like they got home and that was the end of it... With several cliffhangers just sitting out there.
I think it is a shame that there was never a canon connection between Q and Trelane. I honestly think that there should have been a nod to Trelane being a young Q. That would seem weird with an immortal being but the possibility is set with Amanda Rogers and then with Q’s own son, that they could be born and grow up. Trelane is so obviously of the Q, it may as well should be canon.
Even a young Q's powers don't depend on a technology that looks like a mirror.
@@MPeaches1958 if I remember that episode correctly. The mirror and machine was a facade, used to see what Jim would do with it. It had no baring on Trelane’s powers or control of them.
Sulu could be straight (maybe closeted?) in the main timeline, and out in the Kelvin universe… it’s different parallel universes, doesn’t erase the original Sulu.
Even if something can be completely explained doesn't remove the curve from a curve ball to throw at the audience for no other reason than virtue signaling.
He could be bi, for all we know?
@@ashkebora7262 Please stop calling harmless things virtue signalling
Prime Sulu always felt closeted to me. So being out in the Kelvin universe would just be acknowledging the obvious.
I think the surprise with Bashir made his reaction more real to me and it was needed to show the shallow utopia that is the Federation
I *think* I’m with George, on the Hikaru Sulu point: he was the man playing the character, after all!
Actor. I want to leave the series.
Producer. Fine, here's a red shirt go away.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Jadzia's death was handled terribly. I don't see why they couldn't reduce her role, and assigned some of whatever storylines Jadzia would have got in season 7 to other characters. Hell, Jadzia could have taken up a job with the Bajorans, only visiting the station on certain missions, with the actress playing Ezri playing a different Trill who was assigned to the station. Dax isn't the only Trill symbiant in Star Trek.
Icheb was a really cool character. Death seemed a little rough.
I always thought that with Sulu, the actor was gay, but the character was straight,
Same... It felt a bit on the nose to have "the gay character" be the one that used to be played by "the famous gay actor"
It did feel like pandering. I get George’s complaints. Though thankfully it’s just parallel universe. So as far as we know the original Sulu is still straight. So it doesn’t bother me too much even if it felt like Pegg was pandering
@@Linklex7 Are you saying that if something changed in Sulu’s life in the past, it would make him gay? You’re different timelines, but not necessarily different universes or anything can happen. It’s too timelines that diverged just decades prior . so how would that make him gay?
@@Linklex7 I mean Sulu could have always been Bi...
@@jamesbizs It's been obvious to me for decades that most Star Trek producers after TOS are science-illiterate.
Frankly, I LIKED Voyager getting home at the end of the story. It would have been fun to do maybe an episode or two beyond that where Jameway gets her Admirals [well earned] stripes, and Chakotay got a ship. Voyager herself would have to be grabbed and studied for YEARS after, maybe decommissioned. All that sweet tech sitting in that ship ? darn right. Abletive armor, Slipstream drive waiting to be perfected, quantum torpedoes, etc. Then the Doctors hologram emitter. Janeway earned that Admiralty - no wonder she was sending Picard around :)
Read "Homecoming" & "The Farthest Shore." They take place immediately after the screen goes to Black at the end of "Endgame. "
@@cindycampbell3761 I did years ago, thanks - I just wish it could have been on screen
Voyager's ending was a lot more satisfying than Enterprise's ending. It wasn't spectacular, but it was fine. In a modern show or movie, there might have been some follow up, but the finale took care of most of the loose ends. It just didn't go further than concluding the series. It is a shame that we never got to see that shiny new ship fully functional, except for a few moments before becoming lost in space.
What about the Enterprise crew on the series finale? I heard that Scott Bakula's very much pissed off that it was viewed as a holographic episode and the unfortunate killing of Trip
Alex Kurtzman is the greatest injustice to Star Trek.
Feel free to add JJ Abrams.. What these two stupid clowns (and an army of their likes) did to the franchise is irredeemable.
Justice for Icheb!!!
Ever since her death I've thought the way they handled Jadzea's death was awful. She should have gone out fighting with a bat'leth (sorry about the spelling) a dieing a noble Klingon death.
Their plot line needed a way to save Dax.
@@icecold9511 They could have still worked that in.
That twist with Bashir highlights how important it is for THERE TO BE A PLAN. That's why I love shows--cough, The Expanse, cough--that know where they're going and can lay groundwork in foreshadowing while also letting their actors develop threads that won't be developed for years (see Wes Chatham as Amos and Domonique Tipper as Naomi).
personally, i think section 31 is that one background character you see who always shows up to help just when it is needed. and they probably have a "office" upon each ship with the necessary data quarantined in a secure and trapped part of the computer, similar to the omega directives
I was shocked when I saw Jadzia dying. And for some time I hated the Farrell, because I thought she just decided to leave DS9 herself.
Still upset how the treated her and turned her away.
It is very hard to change a regular character into a fill in. They want serious roles and then when it is actual work....
@@icecold9511 whatculture is leaving out a very important bit of info regarding Farrel’s departure - the hostile work environment was also very much sexist in nature. Berman was the culprit, he blatantly looked down on Farrel, refused to even consider a pay rise for her when she was being paid less than most other actors on the show, told her she was just a pretty face instead of an actual actress, and even threatened to blacklist her from the acting industry.
Leaving aside all other considerations, the principal one is whether Dax was needed as a full-time character in season 7. If they thought they did and they couldn't have Jadzia, it made sense to have Dax be forced into a new host.
There's also SAG rules that would have been involved. Apparently once billed as a main character on a TV series, an actor must remain so billed in episodes they are in, even if in a reduced role. That happened with Na'Toth in _Babylon 5_ when she was brought back for a single episode in season 5 using the actor who played her in season 1.
While I was sad and pissed that Terry Farrell was killed off, I'm one of the few who really loved her replacement (Nicole de Boer). She was amazing in the first Cube movie. I still will never forget the first time I saw her; with those giant blue eyes when she says, "It's me, Dax."
I was today years old when I learned that Leaven was on DS9. o.o
Part of why Tekae wanted to maintain continuity with Sulu, is because in the Novels Sulu makes mention of his wife and daughter as well as introduces his wife and daughter to Kirk. Which is why in Generations they make the reference to Sulu's daughter and family. So yes they Changed the story which made Tekae rather upset as they approached Tekae first about the change and when Tekae gave his Objections they went through with it anyway and he asked for a boycott of the film and many fans did respond. I don't know if he has seen the film. But it is a huge insult to ask the man for his input, ignore him and do the opposite of what they all agreed upon. But then again Hollywood had no Honor or decency.
Takei
Echib’s death was a travesty. The character deserves better, even if the producers felt the actor did not.
they probably did that because he dared to appear in a fanfilm. We may never see Tuvok again for the same reason
@@k1productions87 didn’t he post some tweets that these people didn’t like?
@@jamesbizs he called Anthony Rapp a whiner, for daring to speak out against a sexual assault he endured from Kevin Spacey…..when Rapp was 14. He also frequently posted about wanting to do sexual things to jeri Ryan. So he harasses women and victim blames a sexual assault victim. That’s more than “tweets the producers didn’t like”.
Yeah, I get that the actor did some bad things, but they recast the part and so they could have done so much more with the character using the new actor.
@@k1productions87 Many professional Star Trek actors appeared in fanfilms.
Simple solution to the icheb issue for me. I just ignore Discovery and Picard. Therefore, it never happened :)
And throw out the whole JJ Abrams reboot too.
I admit it has been a while since I watched Whom Gods Destroy, but I'm pretty sure Spock didn't ask about the passphrase since that was what Garth was trying to get. I remember Spock asking what maneuver the Enterprise had used to defeat a enemy ship in a battle.
Generations has aged well. It is a great handover film in style and substance.
Denise Crosby was a more believable security chief. Or maybe that's just the way Yar was written compared to Worf. She took her job seriously and people took her seriously. Worf was largely a joke in TNG. Thankfully he was much better written in DS9.
Yes. Worf was the worst security chief in Star Fleet.
Amen!
@@BTScriviner Yoo smooth headed HADIBAH!
In TNG it was Worf's job to get his ass kicked by an alien. Want to show that an alien is powerful? Have it throw Worf across the room.
@@BTScriviner Like when the Borg board the ship in Q Who He the security
team took there time getting there plus bring the captain along!
"Ten Things that Robert Beltran Hated About Star Trek: Voyager" wouldn't be a list on its own...It would be a SERIES !
I truly love these videos. Always very interesting and always entertaining. Thank you! :)
They did Terry Farrell rly dirty ☹️ After 6 years and that’s how they treat her? 🤦🏻♀️ smh & they couldn’t even include her in the flashback scene? Like rubbing salt 🧂 in the wound!
watch "what we left behind" they treated her like SHIT one producer even said to her "if you weren't working here you'd be a cashair at K-Mart"
@@vasyear Wow just because she was hurt at not being allowed to work in TNG films as she could been added for 1st contact and Insurrection
I would have made #8 my number 1. Kirk’s death was so anticlimactic and stupid I didn’t feel sad just shocked that it was a damn bridge that finally got James T Kirk.
Well Picard is new trek and I don’t see anything Kurtzman touches as cannon
DS9 had discovered gold when they elevated sisko to be a staff officer and gave Dax the Defiant.
I think Q's son, Q, should be like "Eff that jive... SNAP!"
" What's up, Itchy?"
The thing about the Valakians story wasn't just Archer's decision not to share the cure, but his decision not to share warp technology. I do agree that Flox should have been the one to withhold the cure but there were two major decisions to be made, not one.
I think the could've done Kirk's death better but there is one angle they did perfectly, they honored Kirk's premonition that he would always 'die alone' and that concept fit Kirk's character extremely well.
But... Picard was with him as he died
@@leonevelake Oh, you're right! It's been a while since I watched, I totally forgot Picard.
I have an injustice: you not getting a cameo!
As much as I hate what happened to Terry Ferrell, I loved Ezri so much as a character I can't bring myself to wish she got her way.
Also Beltran was right.
Great list! Keep it up, mate!
I think they did Icheb and Jadzia dirty. Real dirty
Thanks for this video. Love your work. Sad situations that highlight the experiences of many people in their work. I loved the performances of many of these actors. My thanks to them all for their work.
It was wrong to not bring Manu back, and I 100% share his stance on the issue. Also Terri deserved better... (I loved Ezree too she was wonderful but Terri deserved better)
Oh man, you blew it -- They were just about to give you that walk-on cameo on the next Discovery filming, but you had to go agree with the disgruntled actors... :-D
Where did he agree with them? It is just a list. He pointed out the justifications from the actors’ perspectives but he didn’t said where he agreed or not. The few cases where he did - well, he has said the same things in other videos already.
@@katherinegilks3880 "The few cases where he did - well".... ---those would be the spots where he agreed with them. No need to get too worked up, it's just a joke.
Kirk - I thought at the time it was just to kick Bill to the curb, SNL skit aside. Only later did someone describe it as “Captain on the Bridge!” flipped around. Then it became hilarious. His follow up books in 90s and behavior in recent years only cements Kirk’s fate as just for me.
Tasha - what, no mention that Denise still had more to film after her death? Her last filmed scene has her in the background giving a small wave as the camera cuts away. I’m sure the producers were eager to trim that out as best they could, but the dialogue prevented it.
Enterprise - it seems like Frakes and Bakula have buried the hatchet over the final ENT ep, but they did the whole crew dirty in that one, not just Trip or Archer being left to be holo-actors in a documentary or however you want to describe it.
Sulu - who’s to say Sulu wasn’t bi? The scene was written that it could have been his brother, or just the girl’s guardian while Hilary was away on missions. We only have behind the scenes confirmation that was his lover. George DID come around after Pegg’s counterpoint, so maybe he could have talked to Simon/JJ in private before going public against what was meant to be a positive nod to him and LGBTQ community?
Hell, for all we know, that could have been his niece?
Jadzia - I got to meet her (and Furst) early in the series before all this went down, so I can see why they wanted to keep her on, but they did her dirty. Berman is a slimeball who promised and reneged on many things during his reign. He will not be missed.
You’re more than welcome, total pleasure watching this Chanel, as well as other whatculture Chanel’s. Keep up the great work good sir.
I don't usually get upset by the fiction of television, but I wept buckets when Jadzia Dax was killed
They def shoulda had Tasha in “parallels”.
💯
I was already suspicious that at the beginning the screenwriters had no plans about Bashir's genetically enhancement, but seeing they decided at such short notice explains...sooo much. I still think that this decicion made him a much richer character, but it would be a whole other level of greatness if it was being developed bit by bit throught the seasons. Totally understandable for Alexander Siddig to get pissed on it. He ended playing for the most time a different character that he was supposed to. And surely could have handled a different and much better perfomance in the firsts seasons preparing for it.
Voyager should have found an unknown wormhole, got sucked in and that should have been where the show left off. At the end of the war in DS9 that wormhole should have opened up and dumped Voyager right in the middle of the fight, and they could have had the "cavalry arrives" moment that would have ended both shows in a pretty awesome fashion. But 20/20 hindsight and all that. I can't be the only person who thought this up after if was all over.
The doctor has by far the best story in the whole of Voyager.
Oh come on... Again bashing Spock's Brain... why does everyone bash that episode? It is not the best, yes, but absolutely not the worst.
Let's have a toast for Turnabout Intruder!
As far as episode plots go it was a really dumb idea, but it was still better than "The Infinite Vulcan", or do we not acknowledge the animated series round these parts?
Yes it really was. Least I’m the Original Series.
So for me (and I'm sure I will get a lot of hate for this) Jadzia was always an overrated character. All her episodes mainly focused on her previous host's lives. We rarely learn about her as a person. Most of her episodes are about her time spent as a previous host dealing with the Klingons or her relationship with Worf. I felt I knew more about Kurzon than Jadzia. And it was almost like Worf married Kurzon. Lol When Ezrie came along we saw a different scenario and writing entirely. I felt we learned her as a character not just her past lives. Terri did great with what she had but she was my least favorite.
On a side note I didn't mind her death. I thought it was a good storyline. She died in war and it was senseless and it showed everyone they were not going to get out of this untouched. It made the war feel even more real and gave more fuel to the fire between dukat and sisko. And it led to some great storylines with sisko and ezri and worf. Sometimes a senseless awful death like hers makes the story go in a new and even better direction. Sad as it is.
Plus sorry to say this but the actress didn't want to keep working there anyway. She wanted to pursue other acting jobs but didn't want to commit to the role she had a contract for. It's her own fault they killed her. If you had a full time job and wanted to go part time so you could work another job part time your employer would make you choose. That's life.
Agreed 100%. Farrell was in a completely different, significantly lower tier of acting quality than the like of Avery Brooks, Armin, etc. All shows have this issue as few shows can afford an all veteran casting. But the problem is she played a character that was far too complex for her and that created visible problems. Terry openly admits she had no idea how to portray multiple lifetimes of experience and it painfully shows it to be so. The production eventually sawed off that part of her character and made her more into a one-dimensional ass-kicking-Klingonish type character but the scenes beyond a Bat'leth was still just too weak. It honestly would've been better if they just took the symbiont out and Dax was just a singular person without the unbelievable hogwash of multiple lifetimes - I think we would have enjoyed Terry a LOT more if that happened as she could handle that type of role.
I'm okay with Jadzia's death, but think it should have been less cheesy and telegraphed. Anyone could see it from a mile away. But I definitely agree that she was overrated. She had no chemistry with Worf, and ended up being more of a servicable side character than a truly interesting main character.
legit thought the Bashir mutant plot point was in the plan from episode one. that's nuts
Anybody I've talked to who have encountered Robert Beltran have all said he has an ego as big as the outdoors. However, there is one thing he is not wrong about, Chakotay was never properly developed as a character.