SELECTED SOURCES: Greater Idaho Movement: www.greateridaho.org/ Map of 100 US States divided by politics (by Dug Alcedo): dug.wtf/political.jpg Poll of Idaho voters: www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/idaho-issues-1101/ Governor Brad Little on Greater Idaho: www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/article240456246.html www.foxnews.com/video/6133797882001
Thank you for an unbiased informative summary! I think the process is necessarily difficult enough that if it does succeed, it should be allowed, perhaps even helped over the finish line. Speaking as a Central Valley Californian, if our region and counties could just gain full or near full control over all water controls, infrastructure, etc, in our territory away from Sacramento and the coasts living in narcissist bubble world, there would be far less resentment.
Thank you! I did try very hard to be balanced. I didn't bring up the issue of water rights because it's so complicated, but as I'm aware it's a huge issue and also the source of a lot of interstate friction. I can only guess what complications redrawing state borders along a major river would introduce! Thanks for watching and commenting. I hope you can find a way to overcome the narcissist bubble!
If it was just lines on a map, I'd agree it looks fun. But lots of people's lives are at stake here. Some people would certainly benefit from expanding Idaho, but there would at least be a small group of people who would not, and maybe a larger group that would object to having their state identity removed from them. I have a feeling that a Greater Idaho would solve one problem, and then create others in its wake.
@@FredoRockwell I think Idaho should respect the native american concentrations if it even expands. I think this would leave 2 much more politicaly homogenous states where none of the 2 parties are misrepresented.
This is crazy, I googled “greater Idaho” four hours after this came out, and I fell down a rabbit hole, amazing channel, love your content, hugely respect Somaliland nkw
@@FredoRockwell yea I don't usually comment on videos but this was a very informative introduction to the argument while being very compact time length wise. It was also very impartial as I was also expecting some bias/mockery but there was none except for the funny lighthearted joke at the end.
I'm glad you found it impartial - that's what I was aiming for. And I think it's important to respect any movement which advocates peaceful political change. :) Thanks again for the cool comment!
As a center dwelling (liberal socially conservative financially Oregonian) I abhor the idea of violent civil conflict. But I won't give Idaho one inch of Oregon over my dead body.... Just saying.
As you pointed out the political landscape changes drastically over time, given this seems to be politically motivated it seems foolish as they will just end up fractured once more as things change yet again. It looks to me like they're looking for an easy fix in the most ass backwards, complicated way possible. Bunch of children.
The political landscape is fluid and for that reason changing something as relatively permanent as state boundaries is problematic, but I don't think this is a movement based on childishness. Having a state government that is effectively controlled for a generation or more by one small part of the state is a failure, and one that should be addressed. Unfortunately, the way the US Supreme Court interprets the Constitution means states have a lot less flexibility to address this sort of problem than they used to.
@@FredoRockwell Fair enough, I shouldn't have called them children, I'll have to look into this more but as it stands it seems to me to have a lot in common with the thousands of short sighted, emotionally driven "seperatist movements" (I know that's not what this is per se) around the world. It distracts people from looking at real viable solutions and realistic changes that could be made to adress the same problems.
No worries. I cover a lot of separatist movements around the world, and there are a handful I support because they are being advocated by groups of people who are suffering severe political oppression or much worse. The ones that are more self serving after mostly in countries which are already prosperous and relatively free (so Europe and North America). I'd say this is slightly different, though. It's legitimate in my mind to advocate for political change to correct situations where a group is politically excluded from power. I don't think Greater Idaho is a practical solution, but I do totally understand the frustration of people in Eastern Oregon who feel effectively disenfranchised. 🙂
@@FredoRockwell Without a doubt there is a real issue at the core of this. Mostly i'm sceptical of the intentions of the Idahoans in this situation, iirc they are suffering a rather rapid population decline right now, and this proposal is without a doubt more for their imediate gain rather than to help the marginalized East Oregonians. If the same level of interstate pressure was being put on presurring the Oregonian gov. or at least increasing awareness. I think the objective answer would be for them to "simply" (of course it's not really that simple) move to Idaho without any teritorryal changes. that would adress Idahos population decline and the issue of political representation. Obviously a migration of that scale is extremely drastic but it wouldn't even need to go that far to get the attention of the Oregon gov. Either way, I'm not saying that is the "right" solution either, just that jumping to such a drastic "revolutionary" idea looks great on social media but is doomed to fail in the real world. I don't know, it's certainly a complicated issue worthy of a longer video in my opinion. A deep dive into alternate solutions and the nuanced motivations of those involved. At the very least you've got people thinking about it, so, keep up the good work. 🙂
@@FredoRockwell the government is not going to redraw borders for political reasons, there are hundreds of better solutions that wouldn't have nearly as many consequences.
What if that area of conservative eastern Oregon becomes a state instead? I'm not sure if that would take longer than the "Greater Idaho" concept (it might). That could be possible if DC becomes a liberal state.
Looking at the map, I can see how East Oregon is closer to Boise, Idaho than it is to Portland but thats probably not a factor in their reasoning. I saw in a video on Mr Beats channel that West Montana is more similar in geography to north Idaho than the rest of Montana. So if such a thing were successful it might create a precedent of ever an expanding state or other states doing similar things.
I lived in Western Montana for a few years, and yes it's geographically similar to Northern Idaho. However... To cross between them you have to drive through a handful of high altitude mountain passes, and these are regularly shut (even on the Interstate) during bad weather. So you could end up in a state that was split in two a few times a year! Thanks for watching and commenting!
I think it makes sense, as political landscapes, in terms of geography, ever rarely change: rural areas will always attract those kinds of folks and so will the cities do the same-this may be a poorly thought out idea, but to me, it seems fairly intuitive-until, I suppose, a city “emerges” within a red state: now I have no idea how stuff like *that* works, but for the most part, rural areas attract “conservative/traditional” peeps while cities attract “liberal/apolitical” peeps. Now it doesn’t seem like we might eliminate entire states nor create city-states, as that’s just too preposterous for everybody, so we do what we can. Nice video.
I'm pretty sure when the former Oregon Country was divided up into states in the 1800s, no one really understood how Eastern Washington and Oregon would be disenfranchised by demography. But if they had, I think they might have divided things up differently. As it is, yes, the cities on the coast are filling up with progressive voters much faster than the interior counties and I don't know if there's a way to fix the situation now. Glad you liked the video!
lol yeah until 100s of billions of dollars have to be spent and you need approval from Congress. Its literally a scam, that comes up every few years. The last guy who had this plan was sued and went to jail. State Pensioners, State(City and County Property), New Water and Power infrastructure, legal fees for rewriting tribal treaties, re-incorporation of businesses, incorporations of towns. so who is gonna foot the bill, Idaho or Oregon. Oh the legal fight between two states can go on for decades
@@FredoRockwell but there’s still parts of Somaliland that want to be part of Somalia (Khatumo and to a lesser extent, Makhir) Khatumo was divided into Somaliland and Puntland which is part of Somalia, but the overwhelming majority of Khatumo wants to join Somalia as a federal state with it’s capital as Las Anod and maybe Makhir would want to join Somalia, but currently there’s nothing going on about it joining Somalia
I've been to eastern Oregon and eastern Washington and they're both really similar. It would make sense for them to be in a state together in some ways. I don't think there's any chance a new state would be admitted to the union at the moment though as it would upset the balance of power in the US Senate. But who knows what the future holds!
@@FredoRockwell I'm no linguist but it's the way you say "vaoting" or "idahao" - the quick little posh half step syllable when starting a hard "o". Folks ("faolks"?) in the west and western Canada, I think, tend to speak like this.
@Dogelcel Yeah, I get that. I think it's just a result of the strong demographic divide in Oregon that's developed in the last century, coupled with a rise in more radical politics among conservatives. It doesn't help that SCOTUS won't allow states to have regional representation in state legislatures, the way the US Congress has.
I don't live in either state or even on that side of the country, but I am rooting for Greater Idaho because the people have a right to vote on joining a neighboring state if they feel their state is not meeting their needs. I hear a similar thing is going on with the Maryland panhandle wanting to join West Virginia. I hope that one happens too.
@@FredoRockwell tbh I understand why they would want this to succeed. I mean…. Do you really want to be run by the people who govern Portland at this point? The ones who are against this are really the worst human beings I have encountered and insult them in the worst way possible.
I'll glad - that's exactly what I was aiming for. This isn't a cause I support, and I doubt it will succeed because the current political structure will probably refuse to engage with it, but I do think the underlying issue is real. A democratic system that cannot help political minorities feel invested in the system has big problems.
SELECTED SOURCES:
Greater Idaho Movement: www.greateridaho.org/
Map of 100 US States divided by politics (by Dug Alcedo): dug.wtf/political.jpg
Poll of Idaho voters: www.thetrafalgargroup.org/news/idaho-issues-1101/
Governor Brad Little on Greater Idaho:
www.idahostatesman.com/news/northwest/idaho/article240456246.html
www.foxnews.com/video/6133797882001
"Maybe some day we will all live in Greater Idaho" - > Made me laugh :). Good video as usual
Thank you! How long till the EU and Idaho border each other?
@@FredoRockwell Imagine if Greater Idaho becomes a member of the EU before Turkey does lol
Thank you for an unbiased informative summary! I think the process is necessarily difficult enough that if it does succeed, it should be allowed, perhaps even helped over the finish line.
Speaking as a Central Valley Californian, if our region and counties could just gain full or near full control over all water controls, infrastructure, etc, in our territory away from Sacramento and the coasts living in narcissist bubble world, there would be far less resentment.
Thank you! I did try very hard to be balanced. I didn't bring up the issue of water rights because it's so complicated, but as I'm aware it's a huge issue and also the source of a lot of interstate friction. I can only guess what complications redrawing state borders along a major river would introduce!
Thanks for watching and commenting. I hope you can find a way to overcome the narcissist bubble!
@Fredo Rockwell Oh definitely.
Yeah, control can be a difficult thing to give up.
And thank you!
Oregon legislation will NEVER let this happen, lol. It's a pipe dream.
It’s all fun and games until Boise residents realize they have to drive an extra six hours for weed
It would be wacky... And I love it! Why not? A change of the border would make a nice difference.
If it was just lines on a map, I'd agree it looks fun. But lots of people's lives are at stake here. Some people would certainly benefit from expanding Idaho, but there would at least be a small group of people who would not, and maybe a larger group that would object to having their state identity removed from them. I have a feeling that a Greater Idaho would solve one problem, and then create others in its wake.
@@FredoRockwell I think Idaho should respect the native american concentrations if it even expands. I think this would leave 2 much more politicaly homogenous states where none of the 2 parties are misrepresented.
This is crazy, I googled “greater Idaho” four hours after this came out, and I fell down a rabbit hole, amazing channel, love your content, hugely respect Somaliland nkw
Glad you like the channel! Join the Discord server if you like. There's a link in the description of the last few videos.
Again I do question where Idaho realize how much they would have to pay Oregon for all the date assets in the area.
Great video sir.
Thank you! And thanks for letting me know you liked it!
@@FredoRockwell yea I don't usually comment on videos but this was a very informative introduction to the argument while being very compact time length wise.
It was also very impartial as I was also expecting some bias/mockery but there was none except for the funny lighthearted joke at the end.
I'm glad you found it impartial - that's what I was aiming for. And I think it's important to respect any movement which advocates peaceful political change. :) Thanks again for the cool comment!
As a center dwelling (liberal socially conservative financially Oregonian) I abhor the idea of violent civil conflict. But I won't give Idaho one inch of Oregon over my dead body.... Just saying.
This is hilarious
Never heard this before
Glad you liked it!
As you pointed out the political landscape changes drastically over time, given this seems to be politically motivated it seems foolish as they will just end up fractured once more as things change yet again.
It looks to me like they're looking for an easy fix in the most ass backwards, complicated way possible.
Bunch of children.
The political landscape is fluid and for that reason changing something as relatively permanent as state boundaries is problematic, but I don't think this is a movement based on childishness. Having a state government that is effectively controlled for a generation or more by one small part of the state is a failure, and one that should be addressed. Unfortunately, the way the US Supreme Court interprets the Constitution means states have a lot less flexibility to address this sort of problem than they used to.
@@FredoRockwell Fair enough, I shouldn't have called them children, I'll have to look into this more but as it stands it seems to me to have a lot in common with the thousands of short sighted, emotionally driven "seperatist movements" (I know that's not what this is per se) around the world.
It distracts people from looking at real viable solutions and realistic changes that could be made to adress the same problems.
No worries. I cover a lot of separatist movements around the world, and there are a handful I support because they are being advocated by groups of people who are suffering severe political oppression or much worse. The ones that are more self serving after mostly in countries which are already prosperous and relatively free (so Europe and North America). I'd say this is slightly different, though. It's legitimate in my mind to advocate for political change to correct situations where a group is politically excluded from power. I don't think Greater Idaho is a practical solution, but I do totally understand the frustration of people in Eastern Oregon who feel effectively disenfranchised. 🙂
@@FredoRockwell Without a doubt there is a real issue at the core of this. Mostly i'm sceptical of the intentions of the Idahoans in this situation, iirc they are suffering a rather rapid population decline right now, and this proposal is without a doubt more for their imediate gain rather than to help the marginalized East Oregonians. If the same level of interstate pressure was being put on presurring the Oregonian gov. or at least increasing awareness.
I think the objective answer would be for them to "simply" (of course it's not really that simple) move to Idaho without any teritorryal changes.
that would adress Idahos population decline and the issue of political representation.
Obviously a migration of that scale is extremely drastic but it wouldn't even need to go that far to get the attention of the Oregon gov.
Either way, I'm not saying that is the "right" solution either, just that jumping to such a drastic "revolutionary" idea looks great on social media but is doomed to fail in the real world.
I don't know, it's certainly a complicated issue worthy of a longer video in my opinion.
A deep dive into alternate solutions and the nuanced motivations of those involved.
At the very least you've got people thinking about it, so, keep up the good work. 🙂
@@FredoRockwell the government is not going to redraw borders for political reasons, there are hundreds of better solutions that wouldn't have nearly as many consequences.
There's not a chance in hell Salem would ever let Idaho annex half our state. It's a pipe dream.
What if that area of conservative eastern Oregon becomes a state instead? I'm not sure if that would take longer than the "Greater Idaho" concept (it might).
That could be possible if DC becomes a liberal state.
The Greater Idaho movement thinks it would be easier to get a change of borders passed by Congress than a new state. 🙂
Looking at the map, I can see how East Oregon is closer to Boise, Idaho than it is to Portland but thats probably not a factor in their reasoning. I saw in a video on Mr Beats channel that West Montana is more similar in geography to north Idaho than the rest of Montana.
So if such a thing were successful it might create a precedent of ever an expanding state or other states doing similar things.
I lived in Western Montana for a few years, and yes it's geographically similar to Northern Idaho. However... To cross between them you have to drive through a handful of high altitude mountain passes, and these are regularly shut (even on the Interstate) during bad weather. So you could end up in a state that was split in two a few times a year! Thanks for watching and commenting!
I think it makes sense, as political landscapes, in terms of geography, ever rarely change: rural areas will always attract those kinds of folks and so will the cities do the same-this may be a poorly thought out idea, but to me, it seems fairly intuitive-until, I suppose, a city “emerges” within a red state: now I have no idea how stuff like *that* works, but for the most part, rural areas attract “conservative/traditional” peeps while cities attract “liberal/apolitical” peeps. Now it doesn’t seem like we might eliminate entire states nor create city-states, as that’s just too preposterous for everybody, so we do what we can. Nice video.
One could call this, “gerry-culling”.
I'm pretty sure when the former Oregon Country was divided up into states in the 1800s, no one really understood how Eastern Washington and Oregon would be disenfranchised by demography. But if they had, I think they might have divided things up differently. As it is, yes, the cities on the coast are filling up with progressive voters much faster than the interior counties and I don't know if there's a way to fix the situation now. Glad you liked the video!
lol yeah until 100s of billions of dollars have to be spent and you need approval from Congress. Its literally a scam, that comes up every few years. The last guy who had this plan was sued and went to jail.
State Pensioners, State(City and County Property), New Water and Power infrastructure, legal fees for rewriting tribal treaties, re-incorporation of businesses, incorporations of towns.
so who is gonna foot the bill, Idaho or Oregon. Oh the legal fight between two states can go on for decades
Breton could be interesting.
I'll have a look!
Do “the five minute guide to Greater Somalia”
I might do a guide to Somalia, for sure. But I don't think I'd do Greater Somalia.
@@FredoRockwell but there’s still parts of Somaliland that want to be part of Somalia (Khatumo and to a lesser extent, Makhir)
Khatumo was divided into Somaliland and Puntland which is part of Somalia, but the overwhelming majority of Khatumo wants to join Somalia as a federal state with it’s capital as Las Anod and maybe Makhir would want to join Somalia, but currently there’s nothing going on about it joining Somalia
east oregon and east washington should split off from their respective states instead and make a new state called cascadia
Cascadia already has a movement, but it's more left wing than conservative, and includes British Columbia to boot!
@@FredoRockwell Yeah I know I was just thinking of a name
I've been to eastern Oregon and eastern Washington and they're both really similar. It would make sense for them to be in a state together in some ways. I don't think there's any chance a new state would be admitted to the union at the moment though as it would upset the balance of power in the US Senate. But who knows what the future holds!
@@Greater_Idaho oh I see
Fredo what's your accent from?
I'm American but I've lived most of my adult life in the UK. 🙂
@@FredoRockwell thanks for the reply. I thought I heard a bit of a PNW/BC accent. It's a real thing! You could totally pass for a Vancouverite
@@FredoRockwell I'm no linguist but it's the way you say "vaoting" or "idahao" - the quick little posh half step syllable when starting a hard "o". Folks ("faolks"?) in the west and western Canada, I think, tend to speak like this.
I lived in Montana for a few years, but I think what you're hearing is a very slight Southern accent (I grew up in Georgia). 🙂
as a oregonian i highly dislike the idea of humiliating oregon this hard
Are you referring to the Greater Idaho movement, or the video?
the whole greater Idaho thingy
@Dogelcel Yeah, I get that. I think it's just a result of the strong demographic divide in Oregon that's developed in the last century, coupled with a rise in more radical politics among conservatives. It doesn't help that SCOTUS won't allow states to have regional representation in state legislatures, the way the US Congress has.
I don't live in either state or even on that side of the country, but I am rooting for Greater Idaho because the people have a right to vote on joining a neighboring state if they feel their state is not meeting their needs. I hear a similar thing is going on with the Maryland panhandle wanting to join West Virginia. I hope that one happens too.
Thanks for your comment! I've heard about the Maryland/West Virginia idea as well. I don't think it's as well supported but I could be wrong...
"It's too hard" is not an excuse.
This needs to happen. If left to simmer, its going to turn violent eventually.
One day… we will live in the United States of Greater Idaho!!!!!
"doesn't surprise me one bit!"
@@FredoRockwell tbh I understand why they would want this to succeed. I mean…. Do you really want to be run by the people who govern Portland at this point? The ones who are against this are really the worst human beings I have encountered and insult them in the worst way possible.
The more I watched the video the more I understood their cause.
I'll glad - that's exactly what I was aiming for. This isn't a cause I support, and I doubt it will succeed because the current political structure will probably refuse to engage with it, but I do think the underlying issue is real. A democratic system that cannot help political minorities feel invested in the system has big problems.