UPDATE: At 41:09 I talk about which way the bolt goes through the clutch fork. That only applies to units with the clutch fork shaft in the top half of the bell housing. If the shaft goes through the lower half of the bell housing, such as the 1550, 1650, 1950-T and a few others, then the bolt faces the opposite direction. Or to keep it simple, take a picture before you take it apart to make sure you get it back together the same way it came out.
When I need something like this done to one of my Olivers, I have a good friend who is an excellent Oliver mechanic and he takes care of it. But I sure appreciate you showing us how it's done. Very interesting.
I am ready for the coming week as you have supplied the Oliver drug video to get thru the week. Fantastic job. Now just do one for Herman as he is jealous of the others having an O/U.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Come on Herman, really blow that seal. I always thought the Detroit powered 1950s needed that extra range. Herman says, "I am high idle, and have no load so grab another gear."
What a well engineered fairly simple bullet proof system. Great job explaining the three speeds. There are a lot of the units still today in operation and having experience with them can take a beating. I got in the habit of slipping the clutch a bit or throttling down slightly during the shifts at road speeds pulling silage wagons. Just didn’t seem safe to hammer the three speed. But after seeing the video, seems to be engineered to handle it.
Hi Brett, I think you should continue to to throttle back when shifting into over on the road under a load, In one of his videos Chris talked about damaging Over Under in the 2-155 when shifting at full throttle under a load.
Yep. I only throttle back for road shifting, there's enough reduction in the field to shift whenever you want. It's trying to jump up 4-5 mph with a heavy load that really puts the stress on them. Dad broke the planetary carrier in our 2-155 hauling a manure tank and shifting it all full rpm. After that, we always shift the over/under at half throttle in road gear, and then give it the throttle after we're in over.
As i am watching you put this back together, I think about the guy who designed it. It was probably more than one guy. American engineering at its best.
Great videos Been searching for a video on youtube for 3 point arms that drift down after the tractor is shut down and sits for a bit. It's a '67 1650.
I currently don't have one on that. The most likely cause is the seals in the internal lift cylinder need replaced. The hydraulic/3 point unit needs to be lifted off to get to it.
What about anti seize on those splines instead of grease? Light coating that is. It's coming along nicely, always learning something new about these old tractors. Cheers :)
Looks like you got it buttoned up. Ethan over at Oliver66 Farmboy just completed his also. Methods were a little different but results were the same. I think he is waiting on engine parts now.
There's mention of them in the parts book, so they kept some track of it. I would have thought they'd do those and serial numbers from fwa axles onthe build cards. Go figure.
Great job, very informative. It does bother me that the individual o-rings are not identified, made me second guess myself when I was trying to decide which one was for what.
have you ever thought about putting a semi hard piece of rubber between your steel plate and the housing to absorb vibration from engine to frame viva the adjusting bolt to line up the couplers?
Love your videos Chris you inspired me to buy an 1855 with original front loader and really good condition he used it in September and it's been setting till now in the barn he went to move it out he thought he left the parking brake on but it wasn't on he's never had trouble with it he can hardly move it a couple feet back or forth it feels like something stuck and it pulls the Tractor Down hydraulic brakes can you think of anything that could be appreciate anything
The park brake uses the same brakes as the foot brake, and the linkage can get tight from not being used. On the brake housing cover there is a rod that goes down through to hold the brakes for parking. Early 55 series didn't have grease zerks on that shaft, and it can get stiff and make the brakes drag. With the park brake off, grab that lever/arm that comes out of each housing and see if it wiggles. It should have a little looseness when the brake is off. If it acts tight, it could be hanging up. Take a chisel and pop off the cap on the outside of the brake cover, and under that is an adjustment bolt for the park brake. Loosen the jam nut, and back the bolt out and see if that frees the brakes up. if the linkage isn't tight, then there might be something else going on.
Nice one chris. Have you ever tried or had to make shims for under the rear motor mount pads from where someone didn't tighten up the bolts enough? Then the jack bolt under the over under unit won't need as much pressure on it.
I've shimmed to make up for wear from loose engine mounts, but only to get it back to stock. My thought is if I shim enough to line up the sprockets, then the pto drive shaft is no longer lined up. A guy could make that back plate on the engine twice as thick and I bet that would go alot farther towards keeping things lined up and also cut down on vibration.
Very informative and interesting videos. Any chance you could do a repair video on a 1750 power steering issue, my 1750 wanders back and forth all the time.
I've done some videos on similar subjects. Things to check out are that all the connections on the steering box up front are tight. Tie rods, the clamp on the steering arm, and even the bolt under the cap on the steering box can come loose and let things wander. If everything up front is tight, then I must be the steering motor in the dash. There's no repairing that, the best bet is to find a good used one, or to convert to a Char-lynn steering motor. To find them, search "That Oliver guy steering" in the youtube search bar and it will bring up videos I have done on the subject. I did some videos on a 1650, and it is the same as the 1750 steering, with a few minor differences.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris thanks for taking the time to answer me, very nice of you. I will look into what you suggest. Im from eatetn Iowa, grew up on the farm with Olivers, still have my 1750 and my Super 77.
Looked at 1850 gas . I asked the guy does over and under work good. His reply was I dont know I never needed to use it . I paased on tractor as to me means it needed rebuilding.. Can you even still find or buy parts for them ?
Are the Oliver and White Over/Under transmissions the same? They look a little bit alike, but you probably know it right off hand. Lots of detail non-the-less, and lots of cost too. Thanks for the video, have a great week.
There's a lot of common parts, but lots of little nuances. Input shafts are a little shorter on Perkins power ones, and longer on Cat powered ones. Most of the Whites used an enclosed coupler on the back side, which meant a different output shaft. There were variations on that as well. The way they transmitted power was the same on all of them.
Hi Chris I appreciate you doing the parts cost, I was just wondering if you would also do a labor cost just so we can see what the total final cost of a restoration would be. Thanks for the great videos I watch them all.
I was originally going to do that, but it's tough to keep an actual account of labor time with all the recording I do. Setting up the camera and light, sometimes I stop to talk about a particular procedure or give some historical tidbits, it all takes time that I wouldn't count as labor. Can't forget Alan's time either, but he works incredibly cheap. I should have used a stop watch app on my phone. Back in the day of the dealership I found it interesting how labor costs were often close to the price of the parts. Not always, but it seemed to be a good rule of thumb. Some of the parts I already had, like that seal kit, so I'm going to go with replacement cost on those.
I really like your service school videos. It's good when you don't end up with leftover parts. A question I wondered about - the 30- casting number on the housing, did they use 30- part numbers before the name changed to White? Great video!
Yes they did. There's quite a few 30- numbers on this 1855 with it being a 1974 model. 30- was Charles City tractor stuff, 31- was Brantford combine stuff, 33- was the imported Iseki stuff. 20- was kits and filters, fast moving parts.
At the very least, the sprag clutch. If it chewed things up, then you're looking at an output shaft. Those are around $2,000, depending on which tractor it goes in.
The 1550 was only available with the 2 speed, I have videos on repairing those as well. The 1650 could have the 2 or 3 speed. The over/under 3 speed in those is functionally the same, although the input shaft is a smaller diameter than the one in this video. Repairing it would be the same, though.
Hey Chris. I have my parts ordered for my unit. You are correct the original input shaft on my 1850 is slightly shorter than the new used shaft I have. But I think I have that figured out. Thank you again for the help!! That Wix filter must have been special production one you had made with "Subscribe" on it... Would a input shaft from a hydra-power be the same as one from a over under?
Glad to help. Are you going to shorten the shaft? A little time on a lathe would make it good to go. Hydra power shafts are different from over/under shafts. Those say "subscribe"? I thought I ordered ones that say "send bribes".
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Lol... Yup thats the plan its going to the machine shop Monday. My case has a spot worn just like you showed from the adjuster bolt.
@@mjbirdClavdivs You could weld it up. If you know how to weld cast iron properly. The hole in my case is just like the one Chris showed. Its is not worn thru completely. Myplan was to braze the hole shut and then make up a 1/4" plate to go over the adjuster bolt that will protect the case from it happing again.
@@aaronkaraszewski2749 Tack a flat washer onto the plate and it will keep the plate on the adjuster bolt. If the rubbed dimple on the case is not thru then I would not worry about it. Put some J-B Weld in it and paint over it and no one would ever notice.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris but The engine runs great just cranking I got a issue I can’t figure out. When cranking with the starter half the time the pump don’t pump but if I pull it it busts right off
Hey, I played a nice tune on the output after putting the sprocket on. It was supposed to be Flight of the Bumblebee, is it my fault the output shaft only plays 1 note???
@@ThatOliverGuyChris is it normal for these tractors after sitting for a while and not running for it not to go into the other range and not go in gear?
@@xade7863 The fuel lift pump? There doesn't seem to be rhyme nor reason to that. My 1855 doesn't have one and looks like it never did. Having fender tank, I would have thought it would need one, and I'll probably add one before I'm done. I think it's good to have some kind of lift pump, as it keeps the charge pump in the injection pump from working hard and wearing out faster.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris ok that isn’t really worrying me but it won’t go in gear or go into other range. I know it’s been siting for 2 years and last thing it was used for was splitting firewood so is it just froze up?
UPDATE: At 41:09 I talk about which way the bolt goes through the clutch fork. That only applies to units with the clutch fork shaft in the top half of the bell housing. If the shaft goes through the lower half of the bell housing, such as the 1550, 1650, 1950-T and a few others, then the bolt faces the opposite direction. Or to keep it simple, take a picture before you take it apart to make sure you get it back together the same way it came out.
A Swiss watch repairman has nothing on you putting an over/under drive together. Thanks for the education!👍
I don't know if I'd go that far, but thanks for the compliment.
Excellent detailed video. Thanks Chris!
Kinda dull compared to the last one. LOL
When I need something like this done to one of my Olivers, I have a good friend who is an excellent Oliver mechanic and he takes care of it. But I sure appreciate you showing us how it's done. Very interesting.
Great video as usual. Thank you for preserving your knowledge for future generations.
Thank you Chris!
Thanks for taking us through the whole process, i feel i could tear into one of these if i had to.
I am ready for the coming week as you have supplied the Oliver drug video to get thru the week. Fantastic job. Now just do one for Herman as he is jealous of the others having an O/U.
Herman's hydra power does have a leak...
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Come on Herman, really blow that seal. I always thought the Detroit powered 1950s needed that extra range. Herman says, "I am high idle, and have no load so grab another gear."
@@bigun447 My brother has a 1950 4x4 that was upgraded with a 453T and a 3 speed, great tractor.
Another great job ! Your certainly keeping busy in the shop this winter.
I'm getting a back log of video to edit and upload.
Great video Chris. Thanks for all the info. Have a blessed day
Enjoyed this video bro, always good to follow along with explanations as much as the video itself. Safe travels
Thanks
VERY INTERESTING VIDEO
What a well engineered fairly simple bullet proof system. Great job explaining the three speeds. There are a lot of the units still today in operation and having experience with them can take a beating. I got in the habit of slipping the clutch a bit or throttling down slightly during the shifts at road speeds pulling silage wagons. Just didn’t seem safe to hammer the three speed. But after seeing the video, seems to be engineered to handle it.
Hi Brett, I think you should continue to to throttle back when shifting into over on the road under a load, In one of his videos Chris talked about damaging Over Under in the 2-155 when shifting at full throttle under a load.
Yep. I only throttle back for road shifting, there's enough reduction in the field to shift whenever you want. It's trying to jump up 4-5 mph with a heavy load that really puts the stress on them. Dad broke the planetary carrier in our 2-155 hauling a manure tank and shifting it all full rpm. After that, we always shift the over/under at half throttle in road gear, and then give it the throttle after we're in over.
Good job - - very helpful !!!
Entertaining as I don't get to fittle with stuff like this. Interest in project
Oliver farm guy just redid 1 a few wks back same methods.
As i am watching you put this back together, I think about the guy who designed it. It was probably more than one guy. American engineering at its best.
I forgot to mention how the engineers were given the task of making a 3 speed fit in the same space that the 2 speed was in. They had to get creative.
Great videos Been searching for a video on youtube for 3 point arms that drift down after the tractor is shut down and sits for a bit. It's a '67 1650.
I currently don't have one on that. The most likely cause is the seals in the internal lift cylinder need replaced. The hydraulic/3 point unit needs to be lifted off to get to it.
What about anti seize on those splines instead of grease? Light coating that is. It's coming along nicely, always learning something new about these old tractors. Cheers :)
Anti seize or moly grease are probably fine. Either one can fling off or hold dirt, so it's hard to say what the right answer is.
Looks like you got it buttoned up. Ethan over at Oliver66 Farmboy just completed his also. Methods were a little different but results were the same. I think he is waiting on engine parts now.
I'm waiting on the machine shop on my 310. Sounds like he is going to get started on it this week.
Careful , don't let the smoke out !
It's a one time thing.
The used one I bought for the 1850 was $900 cdn. I wish I could find out what it was originally on.
Great set of videos Chris. 👍👍
Thanks. From what I can tell, they didn't log the serial numbers of the 2 and 3 speeds. There was plenty of room on the build card, go figure.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris makes very little to no sense why they would not.
I know there’s quite a difference between some of them.
There's mention of them in the parts book, so they kept some track of it. I would have thought they'd do those and serial numbers from fwa axles onthe build cards. Go figure.
Great job, very informative. It does bother me that the individual o-rings are not identified, made me second guess myself when I was trying to decide which one was for what.
I agree. They know which ones they are putting in, a little tag would go a long way. It would probably add another $100 to the kit too.
have you ever thought about putting a semi hard piece of rubber between your steel plate and the housing to absorb vibration from engine to frame viva the adjusting bolt to line up the couplers?
No, but that's a great idea. A chunck of round baler belt would be perfect. Thanks for the idea!
us oliver guys are some the best thanks for your vids they really are good and fun to watch@@ThatOliverGuyChris
Theres a 1650 gas on sale on craigslist for 2500 bucks. Its in lapeer
Not a bad price for what tractors are selling for these days.
Love your videos Chris you inspired me to buy an 1855 with original front loader and really good condition he used it in September and it's been setting till now in the barn he went to move it out he thought he left the parking brake on but it wasn't on he's never had trouble with it he can hardly move it a couple feet back or forth it feels like something stuck and it pulls the Tractor Down hydraulic brakes can you think of anything that could be appreciate anything
The park brake uses the same brakes as the foot brake, and the linkage can get tight from not being used. On the brake housing cover there is a rod that goes down through to hold the brakes for parking. Early 55 series didn't have grease zerks on that shaft, and it can get stiff and make the brakes drag. With the park brake off, grab that lever/arm that comes out of each housing and see if it wiggles. It should have a little looseness when the brake is off. If it acts tight, it could be hanging up. Take a chisel and pop off the cap on the outside of the brake cover, and under that is an adjustment bolt for the park brake. Loosen the jam nut, and back the bolt out and see if that frees the brakes up. if the linkage isn't tight, then there might be something else going on.
Nice one chris. Have you ever tried or had to make shims for under the rear motor mount pads from where someone didn't tighten up the bolts enough? Then the jack bolt under the over under unit won't need as much pressure on it.
I've shimmed to make up for wear from loose engine mounts, but only to get it back to stock. My thought is if I shim enough to line up the sprockets, then the pto drive shaft is no longer lined up. A guy could make that back plate on the engine twice as thick and I bet that would go alot farther towards keeping things lined up and also cut down on vibration.
thanks for the quick reply love all your rebuilds Can you still buy the sprag clutch?i had heard they were not available is there a updated one?
Last i knew they are still not available. Maibach is working on it, maybe they found something since I last talked to them
Very informative and interesting videos. Any chance you could do a repair video on a 1750 power steering issue, my 1750 wanders back and forth all the time.
I've done some videos on similar subjects. Things to check out are that all the connections on the steering box up front are tight. Tie rods, the clamp on the steering arm, and even the bolt under the cap on the steering box can come loose and let things wander. If everything up front is tight, then I must be the steering motor in the dash. There's no repairing that, the best bet is to find a good used one, or to convert to a Char-lynn steering motor. To find them, search "That Oliver guy steering" in the youtube search bar and it will bring up videos I have done on the subject. I did some videos on a 1650, and it is the same as the 1750 steering, with a few minor differences.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris thanks for taking the time to answer me, very nice of you. I will look into what you suggest. Im from eatetn Iowa, grew up on the farm with Olivers, still have my 1750 and my Super 77.
Looked at 1850 gas . I asked the guy does over and under work good. His reply was I dont know I never needed to use it . I paased on tractor as to me means it needed rebuilding.. Can you even still find or buy parts for them ?
For the most part, yes they can be rebuilt. Seals, clutch packs, and the sprag clutch are still available.
Bet IH wishes they thought of this instead of the TA. Different setup, but same idea. Power to ground.
Are the Oliver and White Over/Under transmissions the same? They look a little bit alike, but you probably know it right off hand. Lots of detail non-the-less, and lots of cost too. Thanks for the video, have a great week.
There's a lot of common parts, but lots of little nuances. Input shafts are a little shorter on Perkins power ones, and longer on Cat powered ones. Most of the Whites used an enclosed coupler on the back side, which meant a different output shaft. There were variations on that as well. The way they transmitted power was the same on all of them.
Hi Chris I appreciate you doing the parts cost, I was just wondering if you would also do a labor cost just so we can see what the total final cost of a restoration would be. Thanks for the great videos I watch them all.
I was originally going to do that, but it's tough to keep an actual account of labor time with all the recording I do. Setting up the camera and light, sometimes I stop to talk about a particular procedure or give some historical tidbits, it all takes time that I wouldn't count as labor. Can't forget Alan's time either, but he works incredibly cheap. I should have used a stop watch app on my phone.
Back in the day of the dealership I found it interesting how labor costs were often close to the price of the parts. Not always, but it seemed to be a good rule of thumb. Some of the parts I already had, like that seal kit, so I'm going to go with replacement cost on those.
Ok thank you for the response keep up the great videos they are very informative
could you put a 1855 hydro in a 2-110 maybe by changing the tail shaft?
Tailshaft and the rear housing, yes. You may have to shorten the input shaft by a quarter inch as well.
I really like your service school videos. It's good when you don't end up with leftover parts. A question I wondered about - the 30- casting number on the housing, did they use 30- part numbers before the name changed to White? Great video!
Yes they did. There's quite a few 30- numbers on this 1855 with it being a 1974 model. 30- was Charles City tractor stuff, 31- was Brantford combine stuff, 33- was the imported Iseki stuff. 20- was kits and filters, fast moving parts.
Check in next week when Chris mounts a second over/under unit for twice the fun. Will he reach 65mph?
Super speed, super creeper drive. Slam both units into under and you can speed shift the 6 speed part through all the gears
@@ThatOliverGuyChris See best of both worlds! LOL.
What typically needs replaced when you loose overdrive.
At the very least, the sprag clutch. If it chewed things up, then you're looking at an output shaft. Those are around $2,000, depending on which tractor it goes in.
@ThatOliverGuyChris ok I thought the sprag was for the under drive
@@bzyfry200807 Where is my head, yes the sprag is under drive. Over drive is typically clutch disks. Sorry about that.
@ThatOliverGuyChris no problem it will try to grab when it's cold but with any run time it will just roll to a stop
Great videos! Are these the same units that are in the 1550's and 1650's?
The 1550 was only available with the 2 speed, I have videos on repairing those as well. The 1650 could have the 2 or 3 speed. The over/under 3 speed in those is functionally the same, although the input shaft is a smaller diameter than the one in this video. Repairing it would be the same, though.
Hey Chris. I have my parts ordered for my unit. You are correct the original input shaft on my 1850 is slightly shorter than the new used shaft I have. But I think I have that figured out. Thank you again for the help!! That Wix filter must have been special production one you had made with "Subscribe" on it... Would a input shaft from a hydra-power be the same as one from a over under?
Glad to help. Are you going to shorten the shaft? A little time on a lathe would make it good to go.
Hydra power shafts are different from over/under shafts.
Those say "subscribe"? I thought I ordered ones that say "send bribes".
@@ThatOliverGuyChris Lol... Yup thats the plan its going to the machine shop Monday. My case has a spot worn just like you showed from the adjuster bolt.
@That Oliver Guy - Chris Losey @@aaronkaraszewski2749 Would filling the hole being punched with a welding rig work?
@@mjbirdClavdivs You could weld it up. If you know how to weld cast iron properly. The hole in my case is just like the one Chris showed. Its is not worn thru completely. Myplan was to braze the hole shut and then make up a 1/4" plate to go over the adjuster bolt that will protect the case from it happing again.
@@aaronkaraszewski2749 Tack a flat washer onto the plate and it will keep the plate on the adjuster bolt. If the rubbed dimple on the case is not thru then I would not worry about it. Put some J-B Weld in it and paint over it and no one would ever notice.
Can u get all the parts still for the over/under? And how much would it cost to fully rebuild one?
The wear parts like seals, bearings and clutches, yes thry are still available. Some of the shafts have been discontinued in recent times.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris ok
I had about $1,000 into this one. Seal kit, speag clutch and a couple of small parts
@@ThatOliverGuyChris my 1755 has got a little knock and kinda sounds like a bearing going out in the over under or the shaft is bent
@@ThatOliverGuyChris but The engine runs great just cranking I got a issue I can’t figure out. When cranking with the starter half the time the pump don’t pump but if I pull it it busts right off
Between over/under and Hydrapower, which do you prefer?
The hydra power is a good solid unit, but the extra speed of the over/under makes it the winner in my book.
Very informative, however the lack of projectile parts may have lost some viewers 🤣
Hey, I played a nice tune on the output after putting the sprocket on. It was supposed to be Flight of the Bumblebee, is it my fault the output shaft only plays 1 note???
@@ThatOliverGuyChris 🤣🤣🤣
You did replace the front input seal because you didn’t show replacement of it.
That was in part 2, putting sub assemblies together.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris My bad I started watching it the other day and have not finished watching it.
Enjoy going to Oliver school even though I am a IH/Deere guy.................Do I have to pay an extra entrance fee?
Nope. Free samples until you're hooked.
How much would u think a 1755 that’s sitting and don’t run but was rebuilt and the shaft that runs threw the rear end replaced worth?
I don't know what to say. Values are wild these days. Personally I say 2k.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris thanks also is it normal for it not to have a lift pump on the right side the engine?
@@ThatOliverGuyChris is it normal for these tractors after sitting for a while and not running for it not to go into the other range and not go in gear?
@@xade7863 The fuel lift pump? There doesn't seem to be rhyme nor reason to that. My 1855 doesn't have one and looks like it never did. Having fender tank, I would have thought it would need one, and I'll probably add one before I'm done. I think it's good to have some kind of lift pump, as it keeps the charge pump in the injection pump from working hard and wearing out faster.
@@ThatOliverGuyChris ok that isn’t really worrying me but it won’t go in gear or go into other range. I know it’s been siting for 2 years and last thing it was used for was splitting firewood so is it just froze up?