What if the Republicans Won the Spanish Civil War?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2024
- #spanishcivilwar
What would it mean for Spain and the world if the fascists were defeated in Spanish Civil War?
Email: ahwupdate at gmail dot com
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SOURCES AND PHOTO/VIDEO CREDITS
A. Beevor, The Battle for Spain (2006) amzn.to/3PYdfSd
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D. Ladden-Hall, "Musk Secretly Used Starlink to Foil Ukrainian Drone Attack on Russian Ships" (2023) www.thedailybeast.com/musk-se...
F. Lopez Arias, "The Spanish Civil War in Spanish Alternate History: Jesús Torbado's En el día de hoy" (2017) www.jstor.org/stable/10.5621/...
History.com, "The Pact of Steel is signed; the Axis is formed" (2021) www.history.com/this-day-in-h...
History Matters, "Ten Minute History - The Spanish Civil War and Francisco Franco" (2018) • Ten Minute History - T...
History With Hilbert, "Was the Spanish Civil War A Prelude to the Second World War?" (2019) • Was the Spanish Civil ...
J. Greenspan, "7 Things You May Not Know About the Spanish Civil War" (2016) www.history.com/news/7-things...
M. Rodríguez, "Alternate History in Spain: Eduardo Vaquerizo’s Tinieblas Series in its Literary Context" (2017) www.depauw.edu/sfs/backissues...
Military History not Visualized, "Why didn't Spain join the Axis?" (2018) • Why didn't Spain join ...
P. Djèlí Clark, "Anti-Fascist dieselpunk and the Spanish Civil War" (2012) disgruntledharadrim.com/2012/...
r/HistoryMemes, "The non-intervention committee in Spain in 1936" (2020) / the_nonintervention_co...
The Armchair Historian, "How the Nationalists Won the Spanish Civil War (ft. History w/Hilbert)" (2019) • How the Nationalists W...
The Pest (1997)
UC San Diego, "Spanish Civil War Posters" library.ucsd.edu/dc/collectio...
World War Two, "What if the Spanish Fascists Lost the Civil War? - WW2 feat. Hearts of Iron IV" (2020) • What if the Spanish Fa...
Goodreads.com
imgflip.com/memegenerator
Wikipedia.org
Thanks to all my followers on Twitter, BlueSky Facebook and Mastodon talking about this what if with me!
Dark Times by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Evil March by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Fall of the Solar King by Twin Musicom is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/... - บันเทิง
George Orwell might have been too busy running a government ministry to write some of his best books
I doubt they'd have a non native spainiard doing something like that
yeah, from what I can find he wasnt that of an high upp and would probaly not get a job in the government
You're implying they would be OK with an anti authoritarian non Spaniard being in the government.
He was a member of the POUM though, and I doubt the Moscow-aligned Soviets would have let him be in ANY position of power.
I think it's actually very likely that Italy wouldn't align with Germany in this timeline. The axis wasn't formed out of much ideological sympathy but mostly from an Italian feeling that German hegemony was inevitable and that the Franco-British democratic order was faltering. Without a victory in Spain, this narrative is much less believable and so it would make sense for them to not bet on Hitler.
Here's a crazy idea:
1. After the Republic wins, the anarchists and communists try to set aside their differences, but tensions are still very high. The liberals get sidelined.
2. Spain gets invaded during World War II but never fully occupied, so the communists and anarchists work together and there is no opportunity for the US to crush them.
3. After World War II, the communists and anarchists start fighting. The Soviets naturally support the communists, so the US and NATO support their main opposition: the anarchists.
4. Thanks to NATO aid, the anarchists win, and now we have a very bizarre situation where Spain is under anarchist control but allied to NATO and the US.
5. The US decides to run with this and offers support to anarchist groups opposing the Soviet Union in an attempt to split the far left.
Perfect alt history scenario
America backing Anarchists, what a world and I'm all for it.
If there's one thing communists and anarchists hate more than facism it's other communists and anarchists with slight doctrinal differences.
In America, the vision of anarchism and liberalism working together begins to increase Liberaltarian ideology, hich becomes the main current of the American left, meanwhile, CPUSA and other American far-left organizations switch to Anarcho-Communism or similar ideologies, the American right responds by becoming more authoritarian, moving discourse from economic issues from the New Deal to cultural and social issues like abortion as well as discourse surrounding unions, rights of labour, and workplace dmeocracy becoming the main economic issue.
I knew a guy in Tacoma who's grandfather was in an anarchist unit in this war.
based
What a fool
@@Seft2_why
@@hirandompeopled4968 it is obvious, if you cannot see you too are a fool
@@hirandompeopled4968 requires no explanation
What if Napoleon didn't invade Russia in 1812?
It would be an interesting subject to look into what is the most popular or emblematic alternate history scenario in different countries. Southern victory in the US, failed american revolution in Canada, nazis invade britain in the Uk, napoleonic victory in France... I don't know if there are specific infos about countries but it's interesting to look into.
another effect is that Spain doesn't have such a funky time zone as they do in otl
I think there’s a decent chance that the Soviets get more after the war if the Germans invade Spain as they would likely have less ground to make up, I could see all of Germany and Austria being in the eastern bloc
The Germans would move more men to the east to defend against a more pressing Soviet threat so the Western advance would be easier and cover ground quicker.
@creatoruser736 Republican Spain would most likely have been comintern-aligned, not part of the Allies
Please, god, give me one more alternate history channel that isn’t part of the alt right pipeline
Alternate history hub
possible history is great too
Well.... pretty much most historians are delusional leftists so you can take your pick in your echo chamber.
Kings and generals started doing alternate history
Heaven knows that opposition to collectivism and statism are what fascism is all about!
Nice video, with a good discussion of the subject. As usual from you.
I like the idea of an alternate historian in such a timeline speculating on what a fascist win in the civil war would have resulted in.
I'm thinking they would likely have thought that this Fascist Spain would have joined on Hitler's side in WW2. Invading France from the south, and at least laying siege to Gibraltar. Maybe invading Portugal to form a united Iberia? etc.
Basically the focus would be what we think of as a "Franco joins WW2" timeline. With the idea of a fascist Spain staying out of the war probably sounding unrealistic to most.
To add on to this, I think alternate historians in that timeline might not think Franco would be able to keep the Falangists (fascists) and Carlists (absolute monarchists) from killing each other in the aftermath. Thus, I think their alternate history would have 2 scenarios:
1. the Falangists win and side with the Axis, either giving the edge for an Axis victory or getting overwhelmed by the Allies regardless
2. The Carlists win, establish an absolute monarchy with utter contempt for democracy, and are more likely to sit out the war. What happens from there depends on who ends up in power (I neither know nor care about the family lines of stuck-up aristocrats), but probably ends up with decades of isolation before the monarchy concedes to a constitution or endures political turmoil/possible revolution
I’m not Spanish myself, so take this with a grain of salt
What if all tankies turned into chocolate
What if all republicans turned into vanilla extract
what if all anarchists turned into skittles@@sashathedonut
There would definitely retribution against the Catholic Church with it being outlawed or priests and nuns being murdered like they did during the civil war.
Unless the absolute hardest-line anti-theist factions somehow remain in power, I highly doubt it would come anywhere close to the peak of Soviet actions. I’d imagine in most cases you’d see a government that broke the power of the Catholic Church without outlawing it, mandating a strict separation of church and state. Outlawing the church outright would probably be far too alienating of a move for them to risk if they want remotely good relations with their neighbors.
YEEEEEEEES, MY BOY IS BACK , and with an interesting topic , keep it up man
Love this one!
So would a Republican Spain send a " volunteer" division to help the Soviets?
Next: what if the Falangist took over the Nationalists? What if the Carlists did? What if anarchists in Barcelona succeded?
But most of all
What if nmy grandma had wheels?
Love your content!
Which is your favorite spanish dynasty? Mine is the trastamaras
The Bourbons lol
Side note: The USSR had little influence on Catalan Communists and Socialists. In fact, Andreu Nin, leader of the POUM (a Catalan Marxist party) was assassinated by Soviet officials.
EDIT:
I recently learned that there was a Catalan party backed by the USSR: the PSUC (Catalan Unified Socialist Party), also aligned with the PCE (Spanish Communist Party).
There were two factions inside the republican side in Catalonia: ERC and PSUC versus POUM and CNT-FAI. Both factions went as far as shoot each other on May 1937. No wonder why they lost the war.
1. Make hypothesis.
2. Immediately disprove hypothesis.
3. Profit?
@@ComradeAart If you mean that the assassination of Andreu Nin was Soviet influence I guess you're right. My point was that POUM was against the soviets.
6:51 kinda surprised you used a map with hebrew names on it, where did yoi find this map even?
Very interesting video of Spanish civil war alt outcome
Imagine Spain in a communist timeline Fails to unite Spain 100% and Its Yugoslavia 2.0 in the 70's or 90's
wait a sec thats another parallel
I can definitely see that happening.
Having a difficult time finding an English translation ofTorvado’s ‘s “on This Day” . Can’t find it on Amazon, can anyone help? Thank you!!
It's important to remember that one of the reasons the Nationalist Army was so successful is that it had support from a lot of people. In the election previous to the Civil War, the left parties won by a very small margin, with a deflated and irrelevant centrist party and a very strong right-wing opposition. And on top of that, many right-wingers aligned with the Republic because they were democratic. At most, Marxists represented 15-20% of the voting population, with Anarchists making up around 5-10%, and moderate leftists the remaining 20-30%. There was a strong radicalization, but it wasn't as intense as the one in 1917 Russia.
If Spanish communists were to form a one-party system, they would be in a minority, AND the army wouldn't support them, so they would fail tremendously.
The only scenarios I see other than fascism are either a democratic one, or maybe even a return to something akin to el Turno, the corrupt system previous to Primo de Rivera's dictatorship. Not exactly that, because the king had been expelled, but something similar.
Likely wouldn't have made much difference other than being more meat ground down.
I think Anarchists would have made up a larger portion than the Marxists just because it had a longer history in Spain and more general support before the 30s.
@@KaiHung-wv3ul Possibly, I gotta say the numbers are by memory from my history class, 2 years ago, so I could be wrong.
Even in 1917 Russia, the Bolsheviks were not, as their name claimed, the majority. And it took much foreign aid to soften a famine that would otherwise have killed Lenin's government before it managed to get established.
If Franco's rebellion is defeated early, the Spanish Republic would still have resources to help France repeal the German invasion.
They absolutely would not have helped France. Spain didn't have much resources that would have been useful and it wasn't lack of resources which caused France's defeat
France was sabotaged from the inside.
If the republicans had won ,the allies may have lost ww2 ,as the Germans would have invaded and closed the Med with uk having problems defending n africa and middle east
@@michellepeoplelikeyoumurde8373 You didn't watch the video, did you?
I was wondering if you have ever done a review of Harry Harrison's "Stars and Stripes" trilogy? I'm asking here because I couldn't find any other way to contact you except via FB an Twit..., err, "X" and I don't do that.
Oh goody from nationalists dictatorship to communist dictatorship. Now that’s progress😒
Yep in this timeline it will be known as the German Ulcer, I can see Sharpes rifles , the WW2 version
What if Biafra won it's independence from Nigeria
All the YAY seing something *not* about WWII or the Second Civil War or any other anglophone stuff!!!
I think that Mexico might have become more involved in the Second World War, historically, Mexico sent arms to the Spanish Civil War, it is more likely that in the event of a German invasion of Spain & Pearl Harbor, Mexico would join the Allies and commit a large amount of men and materiel to the war effort.
Communist victory in Spain would mean greater radicalism in Western Europe on both the right and left as communists would feel emboldened and rightists would feel even more under threat. Very possible that France allies with Germany in this case.
Interesting
Spain was one of the victims of pre-War II appeasement.
Not really
My anarchist eyes were googling when I saw this video.
😂😂no wonder you look like that
Yep the Nationalists won since they had better leaders, better coordinated and united. also the training and military experience was better along with thei nationalists had superior logistics having strong support from Italy and Germany.
What if Gilgamesh did not fight Enki 🤓
What would have been better is Spain never descending into civil war in the first place. The leftist Republicans acted in such ways that did not inspire trust in the more traditional Spanish institutions, indeed created much hostility. I would call the Spanish Republicans damned arrogant in their complacent assumption that they were right and everyone would just go along with whatever they demanded.
That said, I would be more interested in whether Spain would become a Republic at all if the United States did not enact the Smoot-Hawley tariff.
What if France won Battle of France 1940. I will glady donate $100 patreon if you will look into it :)
video full of inaccuracies, but eh, you tried.
it's so sad what happened to Spain. Franco damaged our country a lot
Franco saved Spain.
@@benisboop did hitler saved germany?
I'm not sure if it is ignorance or political bias, but "fascists and other conservatives" does not make a lot of sense. Fascism, like other forms of socialism, is revolutionary and conservatism is obviously not. Just call what the Spanish Nationalists were: conservatives, monarchists and fascists.
Also Germany and Italy were not politically aligned; one was fascist and the other was national socialist. These ideologies are different and the sources from the time point out how they disliked each other because of these differences.
imagine considering fascism a sort of socialism 😂😂😂
@@animeXcaso Same coin, different sides