RTK works great for me in the attic. No weather problems. No problems seeing satellites. No problems connecting to house WiFi for updates. No problems on the connection between RTK and robot which runs on a different frequency that passes through walls. And it's never going to move because it's fixed in place with an inexpensive big box store external antenna mount inside the attic. RTK and robot need to be able to see a couple dozen of the same satellites, and in several directions - ideally every direction but up. (A satellite overhead is useless except to measure altitude.) The problem under the tree was not the thin leaf cover straight up but rather the tree density around 45° between vertical and the horizon. For most people the attic is ideal because it gets you above trees and with a clear sky view in several directions. I would suggest new Luba/Yuka owners test their RTK in different places and then lock it in place before doing anything else. The in-ground RTK mount that comes with the robot is the worst possible option.
Thanks a lot for your video, I was so stressed about my positioning problems, now I'll try to put the RTK on the roof or on the lawn, but I don't have electricity in the garden. Definitely going to do it !! :)
Thanks for the video. I'm sure I'll be sharing this a lot, as it helps explain many of the positioning problems people share on Facebook and Reddit. I'm sure it'll help save quite a bit of frustration for those who have been having issues!
@@jimrfaust I wish there was a better way in the app that showed this. Maybe like a page in the app with a bar graph of the satellites with red yellow and green for each
@@Crazypostman I agree. I think Mammotion would save themselves a lot of support calls if they stressed the importance of strong RTK satellite signals, and then added a page like you described so that users could determine the best spot for their RTK. I only discovered the importance of the RTK location after almost giving up on my Luba 1 last year . I decided to try raising the height of RTK by maybe 5 feet above my roof and that made all the difference in the world.
Your RTK reference station was viewing half the sky clearly and your Yuka was under a lot of tree coverage that was part of the obscured sky that the rtk cant see clearly. You basically had double tree coverage for the satellites that mattered. This thing is great. It does under trees all day long as long as rtk ref is in the open
Great video! Thanks for posting these helpful videos about the Yuka. It's been great! Couple questions: 1. Have you noticed any improvements since the new firmware upgrades were released yesterday? 2. The RTK is now getting better view of the sky, but did moving the RTK farther away have any negative impact on reaching the Yuka? Does that signal to the robot have good reach, even through a house, etc? 3. Maybe you can post a video about your favorite settings for the Yuka? I'd like the get better striping patterns in my lawn. Perhaps wider cutting spacing will help? I'm also optimistic that the bagger attachment will help stripe since it brushes the grass.
@@jpzsports #1 I have not updated yet. I usually wait a few weeks after they release before I update for all the bugs to get worked out. #2 The radio connection between RTK and YUKA has no problems going through buildings. I've personally tested it to 700 meters. So if it has to be further away to get a more clear view of the sky, that is absolutely better. #3 It's really just personal preference. I don't know that anything's better than any other thing. It's just whatever you're trying to accomplish at the time. Sometimes I do the widest in the fastest just to get a quick touch up. Sometimes I do narrow and slow when I want to do a super fine job.
The reason it performs so much better is because the rtk algorithm is designed for accounting for atmospheric correction. It assumes that the atmospheric error is the same for yuka and the rtk. Tree cover also causes distortion, so the rtk is trying to correct for the tree cover too, but the distortion yuka is experiencing is different to the rtk. It can't be said often enough but the rtk must have open sky. No attics, no trees, no porches
@@dellstar07That's the point to this video. Mine worked, being blocked by the trees, but it works much better not being blocked by the trees. Being blocked by a whole roof is gonna block even more signal than just the trees did. You may get by with what signal gets through the roof. It's just not going to be as good.
Do you think maybe you were getting multi-path distortion because the signals from the RTK to the Yuka was bouncing oddly off of all those rings and poles of the tomato plant cage right next to the RTK (as well as the brick wall of the house)?
@@mikefarrington7141 I think multi-path is unlikely here, I doubt the rounded metal of the cage could reflect enough, That's still just a guess though. I don't have the equipment to test for this. I am an amateur radio operator, but I guess you would call me a general without an army 🤣
Awesome test! Some quick questions: 1) I have a Luba 1 and have tons of issues because of canopy coverage, but with RTK on roof I get about 28 satellites. Does the new RTK on Yuka have an advantage over the older Luba RTK? 2) I have a hill/slope that is around 24-28 degrees (Luba 1 no issues). I heard Yuka has a sensor that will go off at 24 degrees. I remember you did an original Luba 1 hill test, have you been able to do the same with Yuka? I don't want to get Yuka and it can't mow my hill.
@@Aurelian57 for your question one I don't think the new RTK is any better signal than the old one just a different design. And the Wi-Fi / data stuff but you don't need that. Number two I haven't tested yet Maybe I'll do that next week.
@@Crazypostman Thank you for your quick reply! My Luba 1 just continues to have satellite issues (right now in fact haha!). Appreciate the willingness to test the slope angle if possible. Would hate to see the Yuka sensor make it stop over 24 degrees, but hopefully that is a rumor only.
Honestly, you lucked out not needing to contact customer support; they are a nightmare. My Luba 2 showed up in April, not charging correctly right out of the box. It took until the end of May for them to agree to send it back for repair. It was a three-week turnaround, only to still have the same issue. I have contacted them multiple times since receiving it back, only to get the same line of crap that they are sorry and understand how frustrating it is. But then tech support never contacts you like customer support claims they will. I even asked for a replacement robot, to which they said no. Once you spend the money on the robot, they could care less about you. So consider yourself lucky that it was an easy fix for you.
First time lapse is 23 minutes of mostly outside that little "forest", it switches 6 times to vision when it comes near the trees and turns around. Second time lapse the status bar on top is cropped out... so no information how it really performed under more tree covered area. The best of RTK placements can't amend a GPS module on the mower that can't find satellites, RTK navigation needs both.
@@BIeak1 Ooh, I'll have to go back and look. I didn't mean to crop out. In the first video, it was on vision almost all the time. In this second run, it was just on vision for a few seconds at a time.
@@BIeak1 Yes, it is certainly a requirement that the robot still receives GPS. But the RTK, having a better signal, Give us a better chance at Co-viewed satellites
Nice job, I know what you demonstrated is true. However, as much as you don't think the attic is a good idea, plenty of people just don't have wide open spaces to install the RTK antenna. I just got a Sunseeker Orion this weekend, and had a few issues with satellites. I finally installed in the attic and my signal is always strong. So now, there are almost no drop-outs on the mower end at all. And nothing the mower has not overcome. The only potential problem I can envision is the heat up there. But I'm monitoring it, and so far it doesn't seem too outrageous. Time will tell. I don't know how many satellites I'm seeing, because the sorely lacking app doesn't provide that info. I would have liked to install on my roof, but it's a bit too treacherous and I also have hardiplank. So I'm not that motivated to secure an antenna to it. Not like wood at all. Anyway, while it may not be preferred, the attic placement seems to work well and it might be the only viable solution for many. Thanks for the video, I think I've seen all of yours. Appreciate it!
@@tomspellman8341 If it's working for you that's great, As long as you know, if you start having problems, that's where you need to look first. I think the Orion is a solid machine, Are you enjoying it?
@Crazypostman Well, it's early days. I mainly chose the Sunseeker over the Mammotion due to my perception of the awful customer service I would receive from Mammotion. Their pre-sale responses to my email and online chat questions were essentially nonexistent. They took 2 weeks just to answer a simple question about their return policy. And their answer was just a link to their web page policy. As if I hadn't read it already. Very poor customer relations. Sunseeker, on the other hand, was very responsive and informative. They have also been after the sale, so I'm sure I made the right choice in that respect. Anyway, I think the mower is a good piece of equipment, and seems to do what it's supposed to. The app is crap though, it seems way behind Mammotion. But hopefully that gets improved over time. I really wished you had had one of these things to make videos with beforehand, but I had to trust my gut and make a choice. I'm not unhappy with it at all, but that app really needs improvement before mainstream buyers will abide it.
Oh, and BTW, I want to thank you for your honest videos. It's refreshing in contrast to the many, many others who don't pay a nickel and everything is fantastic all the time.
@Crazypostman That's weird, I just responded to your question but my response is not here. Well, long story short, I too think the Sunseeker is a solid machine. Maneuvers very well and doesn't get stuck anywhere on the lawn or borders. Overall, I think it works well once you get it set up properly. Of course, I've only been using it for 3 days. The app is crap, though, it needs major work, but it does get the job done. Far behind Mammotion in that sense. I just didn't trust Mammotion to deliver anything acceptable from a customer service perspective. Pre-sale they were abysmal, so after sale wasn't going to be any better. Sunseeker was the exact opposite. Very responsive and informative both pre- and after-sale.
@@robseibertgulfcoastrealest3243 I appreciate you asking, but the answer is everything I've done solar-wise messing around with this has been pretty much different pieces slapped together not really a permanent situation.
@@robseibertgulfcoastrealest3243 I've used something like this, but this is a temporary solution. You can't leave this power bank outside in the weather. Plus you would probably need to make more solar than 100W. If you're going to try to charge Luba, but that would be enough to keep the RTK running. amzn.to/3VwGvBZ
Is there a way in app to verify the RTK signal strength? Picked up a Luba 2. Have plans on where everything will go but would like to power on the tower and see on a per location basis before I perm mount it.
@@EverydayKindaGuy The app does not give you a good way to verify the signal quality, Unfortunately. It just tells you a total number of satellites that it can receive, not that they have a useful signal level.
I noticed when you were working on Luba, the rubber boots that are located above. The rotating cutting blades had big tears in them. Was this from low quality material or you being rough also, how about we have a replacement video because I think it’s low quality material and all of us owners are going to need to replace those rubber boots.
Rubber boots are very thin and easily ripped. It's going to be an item you need to replace yearly depending on your mowing situation. But you'll want to inspect it more often. They're not available for purchase. So I'm not sure how we're going to replace them.
@@Crazypostman Ty! I was a in similar boat although less leaves. After the update it seems to be working much better. If you have time an energy I would love to see the original placement running on the latest firmware- perhaps it is just my imagination that it works better now :) Love your stuff!
Wow, you must be dedicated. Losing all your maps in the name of science. Just one more comment, the RTK is looking for the entire sky, not just up above, so being near a fence, a wall, or anything else that blocks the horizon can be as bad as a bunch of leaves overhead. Thanks for sharing.
It could be that you were right the first time, and that all of these issues lately are caused by Mammotion software regressions / bugs. Since the EU 868 MHz troubles started, they have been trying to rework all of the RTK code, and it has gone TERRIBLY. You are not the only one having problem with slight tree cover of the RTK station, where no such troubles used to be present with earlier software / firmware versions. Don't get me wrong. It is important to have good placement of the RTK station, but what you are seeing here doesn't really make 100% sense.
@@SeanChYT Could be. I haven't done any of the upgrades since the first video, but they could have always changed something on the back end or sent a stealth upgrade that I didn't know about. I've been lucky and haven't had any of the problems I've been seeing on Reddit. All three of mine have been behaving and mowing schedules normally.
@@Crazypostman Also, the Luba and Yuka could be running different software even though you upgraded (or didn't) at the same time. That goes for the app, the firmware on rtk/mower and also the software they use on their back end.
Normal, real, everyday guy review!! Best I've seen. I actually feel more confident buying this now. Thanks.
RTK works great for me in the attic. No weather problems. No problems seeing satellites. No problems connecting to house WiFi for updates. No problems on the connection between RTK and robot which runs on a different frequency that passes through walls. And it's never going to move because it's fixed in place with an inexpensive big box store external antenna mount inside the attic.
RTK and robot need to be able to see a couple dozen of the same satellites, and in several directions - ideally every direction but up. (A satellite overhead is useless except to measure altitude.) The problem under the tree was not the thin leaf cover straight up but rather the tree density around 45° between vertical and the horizon. For most people the attic is ideal because it gets you above trees and with a clear sky view in several directions.
I would suggest new Luba/Yuka owners test their RTK in different places and then lock it in place before doing anything else. The in-ground RTK mount that comes with the robot is the worst possible option.
Thanks a lot for your video, I was so stressed about my positioning problems, now I'll try to put the RTK on the roof or on the lawn, but I don't have electricity in the garden. Definitely going to do it !! :)
Very very good, RTK is key of the whole proces, ❤
Thanks for the video. I'm sure I'll be sharing this a lot, as it helps explain many of the positioning problems people share on Facebook and Reddit. I'm sure it'll help save quite a bit of frustration for those who have been having issues!
@@jimrfaust I wish there was a better way in the app that showed this. Maybe like a page in the app with a bar graph of the satellites with red yellow and green for each
@@Crazypostman I agree. I think Mammotion would save themselves a lot of support calls if they stressed the importance of strong RTK satellite signals, and then added a page like you described so that users could determine the best spot for their RTK. I only discovered the importance of the RTK location after almost giving up on my Luba 1 last year . I decided to try raising the height of RTK by maybe 5 feet above my roof and that made all the difference in the world.
Your RTK reference station was viewing half the sky clearly and your Yuka was under a lot of tree coverage that was part of the obscured sky that the rtk cant see clearly. You basically had double tree coverage for the satellites that mattered. This thing is great. It does under trees all day long as long as rtk ref is in the open
Yes I set my to the top of the roof. Now it works perfectly!
Great video! Thanks for posting these helpful videos about the Yuka. It's been great! Couple questions:
1. Have you noticed any improvements since the new firmware upgrades were released yesterday?
2. The RTK is now getting better view of the sky, but did moving the RTK farther away have any negative impact on reaching the Yuka? Does that signal to the robot have good reach, even through a house, etc?
3. Maybe you can post a video about your favorite settings for the Yuka? I'd like the get better striping patterns in my lawn. Perhaps wider cutting spacing will help? I'm also optimistic that the bagger attachment will help stripe since it brushes the grass.
@@jpzsports #1 I have not updated yet. I usually wait a few weeks after they release before I update for all the bugs to get worked out.
#2 The radio connection between RTK and YUKA has no problems going through buildings. I've personally tested it to 700 meters. So if it has to be further away to get a more clear view of the sky, that is absolutely better.
#3 It's really just personal preference. I don't know that anything's better than any other thing. It's just whatever you're trying to accomplish at the time. Sometimes I do the widest in the fastest just to get a quick touch up. Sometimes I do narrow and slow when I want to do a super fine job.
The reason it performs so much better is because the rtk algorithm is designed for accounting for atmospheric correction. It assumes that the atmospheric error is the same for yuka and the rtk. Tree cover also causes distortion, so the rtk is trying to correct for the tree cover too, but the distortion yuka is experiencing is different to the rtk. It can't be said often enough but the rtk must have open sky. No attics, no trees, no porches
100% 👌
My RTK is in the upstairs of my garage (slate roof) works perfectly
@@dellstar07That's the point to this video. Mine worked, being blocked by the trees, but it works much better not being blocked by the trees. Being blocked by a whole roof is gonna block even more signal than just the trees did. You may get by with what signal gets through the roof. It's just not going to be as good.
Do you think maybe you were getting multi-path distortion because the signals from the RTK to the Yuka was bouncing oddly off of all those rings and poles of the tomato plant cage right next to the RTK (as well as the brick wall of the house)?
@@mikefarrington7141 I think multi-path is unlikely here, I doubt the rounded metal of the cage could reflect enough, That's still just a guess though. I don't have the equipment to test for this. I am an amateur radio operator, but I guess you would call me a general without an army 🤣
Awesome test! Some quick questions:
1) I have a Luba 1 and have tons of issues because of canopy coverage, but with RTK on roof I get about 28 satellites. Does the new RTK on Yuka have an advantage over the older Luba RTK?
2) I have a hill/slope that is around 24-28 degrees (Luba 1 no issues). I heard Yuka has a sensor that will go off at 24 degrees. I remember you did an original Luba 1 hill test, have you been able to do the same with Yuka? I don't want to get Yuka and it can't mow my hill.
@@Aurelian57 for your question one I don't think the new RTK is any better signal than the old one just a different design. And the Wi-Fi / data stuff but you don't need that. Number two I haven't tested yet Maybe I'll do that next week.
@@Crazypostman Thank you for your quick reply! My Luba 1 just continues to have satellite issues (right now in fact haha!). Appreciate the willingness to test the slope angle if possible. Would hate to see the Yuka sensor make it stop over 24 degrees, but hopefully that is a rumor only.
Thank you for the nice video. it was very helpful
No flowers were harmed in the making of this video 🥀🌻 😁😁
@@blade9297 🤣 meme will be so happy!
Hey CP, can you show us how Yuka works with Google Home?
Is it true Mammotion foolishly deprogrammed the green LED in the RTK?
Honestly, you lucked out not needing to contact customer support; they are a nightmare. My Luba 2 showed up in April, not charging correctly right out of the box. It took until the end of May for them to agree to send it back for repair. It was a three-week turnaround, only to still have the same issue. I have contacted them multiple times since receiving it back, only to get the same line of crap that they are sorry and understand how frustrating it is. But then tech support never contacts you like customer support claims they will. I even asked for a replacement robot, to which they said no. Once you spend the money on the robot, they could care less about you. So consider yourself lucky that it was an easy fix for you.
First time lapse is 23 minutes of mostly outside that little "forest", it switches 6 times to vision when it comes near the trees and turns around.
Second time lapse the status bar on top is cropped out... so no information how it really performed under more tree covered area.
The best of RTK placements can't amend a GPS module on the mower that can't find satellites, RTK navigation needs both.
@@BIeak1 Ooh, I'll have to go back and look. I didn't mean to crop out. In the first video, it was on vision almost all the time. In this second run, it was just on vision for a few seconds at a time.
@@BIeak1 Yes, it is certainly a requirement that the robot still receives GPS. But the RTK, having a better signal, Give us a better chance at Co-viewed satellites
Ok, it looks like I am on the hunt for a treeless area. I don’t really have one. I need one of your “other” robots. 😊. New job for tomorrow.
Nice job, I know what you demonstrated is true. However, as much as you don't think the attic is a good idea, plenty of people just don't have wide open spaces to install the RTK antenna. I just got a Sunseeker Orion this weekend, and had a few issues with satellites. I finally installed in the attic and my signal is always strong. So now, there are almost no drop-outs on the mower end at all. And nothing the mower has not overcome. The only potential problem I can envision is the heat up there. But I'm monitoring it, and so far it doesn't seem too outrageous. Time will tell. I don't know how many satellites I'm seeing, because the sorely lacking app doesn't provide that info. I would have liked to install on my roof, but it's a bit too treacherous and I also have hardiplank. So I'm not that motivated to secure an antenna to it. Not like wood at all. Anyway, while it may not be preferred, the attic placement seems to work well and it might be the only viable solution for many. Thanks for the video, I think I've seen all of yours. Appreciate it!
@@tomspellman8341 If it's working for you that's great, As long as you know, if you start having problems, that's where you need to look first. I think the Orion is a solid machine, Are you enjoying it?
@Crazypostman Well, it's early days. I mainly chose the Sunseeker over the Mammotion due to my perception of the awful customer service I would receive from Mammotion. Their pre-sale responses to my email and online chat questions were essentially nonexistent. They took 2 weeks just to answer a simple question about their return policy. And their answer was just a link to their web page policy. As if I hadn't read it already. Very poor customer relations. Sunseeker, on the other hand, was very responsive and informative. They have also been after the sale, so I'm sure I made the right choice in that respect. Anyway, I think the mower is a good piece of equipment, and seems to do what it's supposed to. The app is crap though, it seems way behind Mammotion. But hopefully that gets improved over time. I really wished you had had one of these things to make videos with beforehand, but I had to trust my gut and make a choice. I'm not unhappy with it at all, but that app really needs improvement before mainstream buyers will abide it.
Oh, and BTW, I want to thank you for your honest videos. It's refreshing in contrast to the many, many others who don't pay a nickel and everything is fantastic all the time.
@Crazypostman That's weird, I just responded to your question but my response is not here. Well, long story short, I too think the Sunseeker is a solid machine. Maneuvers very well and doesn't get stuck anywhere on the lawn or borders. Overall, I think it works well once you get it set up properly. Of course, I've only been using it for 3 days. The app is crap, though, it needs major work, but it does get the job done. Far behind Mammotion in that sense. I just didn't trust Mammotion to deliver anything acceptable from a customer service perspective. Pre-sale they were abysmal, so after sale wasn't going to be any better. Sunseeker was the exact opposite. Very responsive and informative both pre- and after-sale.
Got a link to purchase suitable solar panels?
@@robseibertgulfcoastrealest3243 I appreciate you asking, but the answer is everything I've done solar-wise messing around with this has been pretty much different pieces slapped together not really a permanent situation.
@@robseibertgulfcoastrealest3243 I've used something like this, but this is a temporary solution. You can't leave this power bank outside in the weather. Plus you would probably need to make more solar than 100W. If you're going to try to charge Luba, but that would be enough to keep the RTK running. amzn.to/3VwGvBZ
@ Yeah, basically my modus too. 😜👍
Is there a way in app to verify the RTK signal strength? Picked up a Luba 2. Have plans on where everything will go but would like to power on the tower and see on a per location basis before I perm mount it.
@@EverydayKindaGuy The app does not give you a good way to verify the signal quality, Unfortunately. It just tells you a total number of satellites that it can receive, not that they have a useful signal level.
I noticed when you were working on Luba, the rubber boots that are located above. The rotating cutting blades had big tears in them. Was this from low quality material or you being rough also, how about we have a replacement video because I think it’s low quality material and all of us owners are going to need to replace those rubber boots.
Rubber boots are very thin and easily ripped. It's going to be an item you need to replace yearly depending on your mowing situation. But you'll want to inspect it more often. They're not available for purchase. So I'm not sure how we're going to replace them.
I wonder if an update helped too?
@@RobotMowerTricks The YUKA is still on the same software in this video as it was in the first one.
Was this before or after the recent firmware upgrade?
@@farraf637 I have not done the upgrade yet, I've learned to wait a week or two after upgrade is released before applying it.
@@Crazypostman Ty! I was a in similar boat although less leaves. After the update it seems to be working much better. If you have time an energy I would love to see the original placement running on the latest firmware- perhaps it is just my imagination that it works better now :)
Love your stuff!
And the house was also very near to the RTK…
Location, location, location.
💯
Hi
Wow, you must be dedicated. Losing all your maps in the name of science. Just one more comment, the RTK is looking for the entire sky, not just up above, so being near a fence, a wall, or anything else that blocks the horizon can be as bad as a bunch of leaves overhead. Thanks for sharing.
It could be that you were right the first time, and that all of these issues lately are caused by Mammotion software regressions / bugs. Since the EU 868 MHz troubles started, they have been trying to rework all of the RTK code, and it has gone TERRIBLY. You are not the only one having problem with slight tree cover of the RTK station, where no such troubles used to be present with earlier software / firmware versions.
Don't get me wrong. It is important to have good placement of the RTK station, but what you are seeing here doesn't really make 100% sense.
@@SeanChYT Could be. I haven't done any of the upgrades since the first video, but they could have always changed something on the back end or sent a stealth upgrade that I didn't know about. I've been lucky and haven't had any of the problems I've been seeing on Reddit. All three of mine have been behaving and mowing schedules normally.
@@Crazypostman Also, the Luba and Yuka could be running different software even though you upgraded (or didn't) at the same time. That goes for the app, the firmware on rtk/mower and also the software they use on their back end.