I just had an accident end of May, car turned out left to other lane around a sunken manhole, I faded to right of lane to separate from car’s possible left turn to a court right there, and then saw the sunken manhole so went around it right. The car didn’t turn left on court, but bee-lined back into our lane and diagonally across to make a braking, hasty right turn into gas station. I was still on right side of lane and got stuck in a corner. Collided side of car just behind right rear tire at approx 60 km/hr. Bounced off the car and went over it, landing approx 10m on the pavement. Stood up and walked around to pick up my VStrom650 with help of a guy who ran over from the pumps (aluminum cases packed for a ocean getaway 2 hours away-accident was 10 min from my house). Ambulance got there and they suggested I ride with them to hospital, even though I said I was “fine” each time asked. I don’t have any recollection of this, for me it was the side of the car closeup, and then the ceiling lights in the hospital going by. I learned it all later. Honestly, I don’t know what happened. I’m a cautious rider and thankfully I always wear all my gear (armoured). Calf high adv boots, elbows, shoulders, hips, knees, hands are all armoured, plus a collar that works with my full-face helmet to limit vertebrae tilt. I feel all this stuff got me through without breaking bones. I’m still mending though, left knee and right shoulder. Goodbye $700cnd Schubert’s S2! Without the road hazard making us both adjust/react, this wouldn’t have happened. I’d still be properly in left side lane with a shit-load more options than I had. The swerve out and the manhole I think adjusted my follow distance, and their hasty deceleration turn was the coup de gras. This was my first accident with another vehicle in 23 years of riding. Second major moto accident though. First was ‘03 perpendicular hit with a coyote at 130km/hr (110km posted). Slid/tumbled 68m/220’. My Kawi Concours ended up 147m/480’ down the road on the opposite soft shoulder. September early morning, Coyote comes out of spruce shadow at full run 3m/9’ infront of me. Invisible until the sun hit him. Lesson Learned: wait until sun is higher to travel. In any other lighting situation I would have seen the coyote moving from way up the road. Both my accidents were about wrong place in the wrong time. As my old fighter pilot friend said to me after the coyote (also a long distance rider), “a few more scrubs of your toothbrush that morning and you wouldn’t have crossed that coyote.” I hope these tales are helpful. Enjoy your ride, safely.
Spend some money and upgrade to a spyder. Have you ever heard of ABS Brimbo brakes? Do not buy cheap bikes and ride them like you are in the movies. Hell yes ABS on the street don't have it slow down.
Do you know what? I've been riding for almost 3 years now and I started to honestly believe, when people said ride safe, that I would always say "yeah I do but other people are idiots!" I really did start to believe it was mostly on them. Which kind of gave me the mentallity of 'is today going to be the last day im alive? Is riding really worth it?' But now that I realize how much more control of the outcome I have, its going to give me more confidence to work on my problem areas like braking! This was truly eye opening
I've been riding almost 16 years and the thing is, other people *are* idiots and it *is* mostly on them, at least so far as being the cause on an accident and in my personal experience. That's why it's up to you as a rider to always be 100% alert, aware, properly trained and always ready for the idiot s**t that other people are going to do on the road. Too many people end up on the conclusion "it was the other guys fault", not enough follow that up with "but regardless of fault, I could have done something to avoid it anyway". It's better to avoid a crash than to have the other guy's insurance pay your funeral costs because he was at fault.
After I'd been commuting by bike for a couple of years, I realized that every single time I'd seen dangerous driving (multiple times daily), I had noticed that driver and was already thinking that they were about to pull some dumb move. The few close calls I had were because I noticed but decided to "assert my rights". Even with the worst of intentions cars in traffic just don't accelerate or change direction all that quickly, so if I noticed them and still put myself in their path, who was the bigger idiot? Certainly you can get unlucky and get completely blindsided. But in my experience, almost all the sketchy situations I've been in were ones that I chose to put myself into.
I'll just add that one cast iron rule I have is keep away from other motorcyclists in heavy traffic. They're less predictable, less likely to obey the road rules, less likely to signal, more likely overall to take risks, and generally harder to buffer and avoid than anybody else.
@@jaimemetcher388 Yah as much as they like to say 'cagers' are idiots, many motorcyclists are idiots and don't follow the rules either, when they have the most to lose from an accident since they're completely exposed. No air bag, no cage, no seat belt, a fender bender can take their leg off at the thigh. Not to mention driving way too fast and thinking they're on a superbike racetrack.....that's on them, not the person in the car who may have made a mistake but the biker was going so fast they had no time to react.
So the gist of it is, I think, what kills riders is combination of lack of understanding ones ability, riding close or above ones ability (aka overconfidence) and expecting other road users to accommodate you when you should really be taking upon yourself to maintain wide margin for errors of other drivers and your own. So the solutions are: 1. understand your ability (to corner, to avoid stuff, to react and break, etc.) 2. don't ride in public at your limits (you can't do that if you don't know your limits), 3. maintain safe distance from other road users and act is if they (or you) were always about to make a mistake. It is funny how improving your technical ability is NOT on my list. What I mean, you can have ability of Valentino Rossi but still be in high danger of dying if you ride at your technical limits in public where a surprising situation can suddenly put you outside your limits. Ability only makes you safer if you employ it to make you safer (ie. when it lets you keep larger amount of margin for error). I also believe that a beginner rider can ride safely as long as he understand that he is beginner, what this means exactly (ie. that he isn't able to react very well to many situations) and so keeps appropriate margin for his own errors and errors of others. I am not against building ability. I just noticed that for many people the act of getting more ability causes them to reduce margins -- they ride faster, more confident and use the ability to reduce margins. From purely safety point of view this is unproductive, in the ideal world the ability increase would be used to learn your own limitation and control margin for error.
@@tkorte101 I recommend an exercise where you visualize your stopping distance and then do an emergency stop. Then, when actually riding, I try to imagine the stopping point before me, it gets closer to me as I go slower and further away if I throttle up or commit to corner.
I’ve been riding on and off for 37 years. I’m not brilliant, I’m an ok rider, I should perhaps be better and do more training etc. But I always approach riding these days with a super awareness that I don’t want to die or paralyse myself. I think it’s absolutely essential to take responsibility for what you do on the road, even if someone else is at fault, try and make sure you anticipate what could happen. Same goes for riding beyond your ability, the bike can do amazing things on a track, but can you, on the road? I know I can’t . And never show off, what’s the point? I just enjoy that great 2 wheeled freedom, doesn’t have to be at 140 mph all the time.
"you are vulnerable" , "they want to kill you" .... combine that and you ride without your ego pushing you on. Then you wont get in trouble because you ride relaxed and in control.
Trouble is, this General statement is only partially true... Weight and momentum make the difference... My @V650S with Braided steel brake lines, stops harder than 1 G... Most any track rider on a track bike is stopping harder than 1 G. Most people on cruisers, have extra weight on the bike, and cannot stop at 1 G.... and of course, only a single passenger vehicle stripped down can actually pull 1 G in a stop.... Most vehicles on the road can't come close to 1 G stopping.. Those SUV grocery getters and minivans and work trucks loaded up to the gills will never stop in 1 G... We've tested our braking on the track against our cars.... and the only car that was stopping close to the distance of our bikes, was a guys stripped down and souped up Subaru with Big Brembo brakes and sticky Nitto tires.... Half of our vehicles locked up and drug the tires because of failed or non-existant ABS... Yes a Vette with Carbon fiber brakes can stop faster than my bike.... Most cars don't have carbon fiber brakes :P
The great Soichiro Honda was quoted as saying he'd made many mistakes over the years, but that each of them he made only once. I think Mr. Honda's standard for learning from errors was extremely high, and worth striving for in my own reduction of riding miscues.
Buy yourself an inexpensive dirt bike, ride it on trails, sand, asphalt crash a few times and you learn how not to crash. If you crash a bike, it's your fault, no one else's. If a car turns in front of you, still your fault because you didn't leave yourself an out and just assumed they would let you go first. Tired of these "experts" telling others how to ride, when they haven't done squat. If you are going to ride paranoid then you will crash, if you ride like a maniac you will crash. Ride relaxed and pay attention to everything around you, not just the lane you are in. A private riding course of a few hours will not teach you enough to be safe. If you are in highly populated area then it's not smart to ride a bike during rush hour, lane splitting, weaving in and out of traffic. Use common sense you will be ok, if you have none, don't ride a bike, period.
Someone from my high school just passed away last year in an accident on his Harley. He failed to stay in his lane and was hit so hard that the police code indicated body parts in multiple places. Another friend of mine lost someone close because he decided it would be okay to ride home on an unfamiliar bike after having a drink or 2. Take your time, go the speed limit, don’t drink, and go to a track if you want to get reckless. It’s seriously not worth it. Ride safe out there
You said it man go to the track if you want to be reckless recking that bike is reckless enough for most of us sorry for your loss(es) I'm still unsure if I want to be a rider yet
austin tomkewitz they’re not as dangerous as you’d think if you just ride responsibly. Someone I looked up to when I was younger also died in a motorcycle accident, but again... his fault. He was popping a wheelie on a public road, lost control when he put the front end back down, wrecked, and slid right under a car. 92% of accidents occur with a rider that didn’t take a MSF course, 44% involve alcohol, 93% occur on a bike bigger than 500cc, and most people love wearing black which makes you hard to see. In over 90% of accidents, the motorcycle is the striking vehicle typically because someone pulled out after not seeing them or they misjudged how much time they had because the motorcyclist was speeding. Wear some hi-viz, take the MSF course, get proper gear head to toe, don’t speed around intersections, don’t drink and ride, practice slow speed maneuvers, get a smaller bike to start with, and you’ll be fine. It sounds like a lot, but it’s actually pretty simple when broken down. Just the fact that you’re worried about safety and aren’t sure if motorcycling is for you means you’re likely thinking about safety enough to avoid becoming another statistic. As for me, I absolutely love ripping my WR250R around town and backroads. There’s no other feeling like it. Exploring off road places I’m not supposed to go is a rush too 😂 I also try to avoid riding on Fridays and Saturday’s from 3-9pm since 50% of accidents occur on weekends-mostly within these times. Above all, model yourself after guys who have been riding a long time with very few to no wrecks. If you’re riding with someone who either has a bad track record or whose friends have bad track records (i.e. serious injuries or death), then you’re asking for the same trouble they got.
Matt Pierce as an European I can say start on a lower cc bike and always wear protection doesn’t matter who hot it is (from what I’m seeing on yt most Americans don’t wear all their gear and most seem to start on big bikes with no experience that’s why I’m saying that)
Ben I’ve actually modeled my own habits and learning around European policies. It’s insane to me that here in America, you can take one course and legally go hop on a 1200cc bike. I also wear full gear at all times. And yeah, a lot of us don’t wear gear. It’s idiotic IMO 😆
No mention of the role tires play in braking. The brakes slow the wheels down, but it's the friction between the rubber and the road that stops you. The most powerful brakes in the world won't stop you any faster than the tires are capable of. And this is where cars have it all over bikes. They have twice as many tires with wider and larger contact areas. And 4 wheelers don't fall over if the wheels lock up. Obviously some high performance bikes may stop faster than a car or truck with cheap or worn out tires, but the pervasive myth among motorcyclists that it's safe to ride faster or follow closer on a bike because you have such great brakes is a dangerous myth.
@@barryervin8536 THAT is very interesting! That's a good point. I'm not even sure how it all adds up. I'm not used to seeing good points in TH-cam comments. Please change your age to 13 and comment accordingly. Kneejerk response: I speculate that the friction is has more impact than the weight . . . . especially since heavier vehicles move slower. A BRR-80 stops on a dime!
Thank you. Your videos always provide useful info, but also encouragement and confidence. Thank you; even my family also thanks you for making our rides safer, longer, and more enjoyable. This channel, FortNine, and Dave Moss Tuning have probably saved countless lives, and $$$.
That motorcycle riders are at fault in a majority of accidents is hardly a surprise. Fortunately when I started riding at the age of three my father made it abundantly clear that when it comes to street riding the greatest threat is not car drivers, but the rider. To paraphrase a comment originally regarding avation: "Riding a motorcycle is not in and of itself inherently dangerous, but to a much greater degree than driving a car it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity, or neglect." (Captain A G Lamplugh, British Aviation Insurance Group, London (early 1930's).) After sixty four years and over 1,250,000+ kilometers on two wheels on the street and roadracing I still learn something from every ride. Sure, I have scars to show for it, but have been involved in only one accident that I could not walk away from: a head on collision with another motorcycle on my favourite twisty road. I had a totalled motorcycle, a six CM gash in my helmet, thoroughly rashed leather jacket and pants, a compound fractured left arm, torn Radial nerve, broken toe, and a slight headache. He, on the other hand, had no gear whatsoever. He died of a 10 CM depressed skull fracture and / or exsanguination from a partial traumatic amputation of his left knee. That it was his fault does not mitigate my responsibility in the accident: I was following racing lines, which gave me no sight line that may have given me enough warning that there was someone coming toward me WAY over on my side of the road in a blind corner. The E.R. doctor asked if I was going to give up riding, and I said "Hell no! Planning my next bike!" The point is I learned from it, and applying everything I have since learned have not come near another accident in the last forty five years. That said, I am sure of one thing ... I do not know it all. Never will. Still learning. Rob
Beautifully presented, Brent, and just information that every rider needs to open and take in, and I don't even have a bike yet. Rode bikes as a kid in the Midwest growing up and thankfully did mostly off road stuff so I did not kill myself on road. Am hoping to get a Honda CB500x, and when I do, I will bring it up to your training school to learn not only how to ride it off road but also on the street. Thank you for all that you do--you are saving lives out there!!
All so true, The Harley having the best braking distance, I understand that wheelbase matters. The longer it is the more it aids stopping. Why because in my youth my friend handbuilt bicycles. He built a tandem with the same front tyre and brake as his solo touring bikes. (A brazed-on cantilever with the grippiest brake blocks available). The tandem stopped significantly quicker than the solo. Why given the longer wheelbase & the weight of the pillion it was impossible to lift the rear wheel off the ground. And it was so easier to stop, that's operate, than the solo. Thanks for the videos.
@@BretTkacs I'm no physicist & haven't got half of your knowledge. It was just an eye-opener, & a long time ago, that with over twice the weight I could stop quicker than the other blokes. It got me thinking. All the best you run a great channel.
@@berniebne8243 stop like the guy that smacked the vette I'd rather be able to avoid 100% you could not keep up with my 1991 dr250 in the city in the twisty hell off the line till about 3rd gear big bulky POS cruisers
i noticed normal (non-sport) cars stop slower than those bikes. so overall, if you would account for all cars and bikes, you would say bikes stop faster, and then "brakes to slow, not stop bikes" argument goes to toilet. so that particular aspect lefts me unimpressed, although you kinda corrected it later, but then why bring it up in the first place...to surprise? must be pedagogic...huhm offcourse, to stop real quick on bike you need certain skill level which will be mighty hard to teach/learn, but overall, average bike stops faster than average car. but bike being ridden by rider, yeah, problems multiply....mostly concerning skill level. your daughter multitasking... that's just feminism... average women will mostly do "oh shit braking", even in the middle of the curve, when they need none, at 60kph. how do i know? sooner or later you find some cars in front of you...and patterns emerge... but yeah, she'll stop faster _in the curve_, that was your point never convened (or did, in another video?), and ,offcourse, while being 100% focused, no phones or sandwiches. tractor in the middle of the curve, doing 15kph, while i'm doing 100, now that's a decent test for biker's braking skills. i think the point of it all should be many riders forget closed circuits (tracks) are places to test you speed/skill, not the public roads. and we all are guilty, all of us.
I disagree with bike stopping, if equipped with abs braking! I own a 2016 FJR and the stopping power of this bike is incredible, the best I've ever ridden. Most of the current Japanese bikes are all equipped with abs. That being said driver skill and awareness or situational awareness are the key factors of avoiding accidents wether your own or others causing them. I am proud of my personal record of avoiding/ reaction time to others trying to kill me! Granted, not being totally focused on what's in front of you can kill you as well, and over the years( younger years) I did have a few close calls, but invariably stopped in time. The weight of the bike and rider /riders ( two up) or not also plays a big factor in stopping. Extra caution should be used when two up, always!!! Now you have two lives in your hands, so stay alert! In the end " Speed KILLS " is the truest statement when on two wheels, racing and reaching crazy speeds on busy highways/ interstates is death waiting to happen! I've seen it too many times in the news, new rider killed in first week of riding hires new bike! Or first month, or year! It's easy to go fast, it's knowing when it's safe to do that can make the difference between living our dying! We all want to open our bikes up to see the acceleration capabilities or even the top end! Knowing when it's safe to do( deserted dry highway) or not ( congested wet or dry highway, weaving thru tragic) is a death wish waiting for one vehicle to change lanes when you don't expect it! Drive safe everyone, slow down, stay alert, live another day!
He mentioned that in 2016 the ABS was improved. I have a 2007 FJR. It seems to stop faster than a Harley or my jeep. Another thing that was not mentioned . . . I think I pay attention more when riding a motorcycle. No music playing either. I'm wondering if awareness / alertness is a factor.
When he was talking about braking I didn't hear him say a word about using the front brake, you know, the one that provides 80% of your stopping power! Most riders never use their front brake. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a Harley rider do that. All the back brake does (in an emergency stop) is leave a long black skid mark to the scene of the accident. Also, if you don't use your front brake every time you stop, you won't in an emergency.
a lot of videos on here,where biker goes down ,no one else around, are rider grabbing too much front brake..... you can always let go of brake(front or rear) if you start to skid
Nearly all the information applies to bicycle riders as well (except perhaps for anti-squat). I didn't go thru with getting my moto licence due to a mountain biking injury (which taught me about risk compensation the hard way), but what I learned about buffering and other strategies in the pre-learner's course has saved my butt on several occasions while cycling. Your points about fear, sight lines, braking balance and trail braking all resonate. Thanks for sharing.
Your most excellent 3-part presentation will most definitely precipitate a change in my street riding behavior. At some point in the near future, you’ll see me on one of your international treks
Dam......No more Knock it down , Chuck it in , Scrag it out when out for a bit of balls to the wall ride the wheels of it ..."FUN" ....maybe if ask nice can still sneak in the odd " in slow, out fast " late apex bend swinging.....Before have to head the KIA shop for a nice safe econ box (none "stick") if the type that finds eating with a knife and fork a dark art with a high risk of self harm. ....all very good but draw the line at pop tarts skinny latte for breakfast.......make mine a kipper and a mug of Rosey Lee ...now where put that box spanner and tin of Gunk.
@The Fancy Bear META TARO old chap META TARO then and only then can one even think of THE BOTTOM OF BARREGARROW moving on over the hills and far far away.
My only problem is the braking distances shown for bikes are planned braking. Actual emergency braking numbers are much worse on bikes and that's where ABS braking distances are much shorter. It's a different world when you're trying to brake to save your life..
Love your delivery Bret! When i think about breaking and following relative to traffic I try to assume that the one in front of me can stop faster than me, and the one behind me can't stop as fast as me. I just find that keeps my focus when checking mirrors and watching ahead, anticipating the appropriate reaction.
My 2002 SV650S without ABS can still brake much harder than any small car I have owned... but I have never owned anything brand new, but most of the vehicles on the road aren't new... most of the vehicles on the road have failed ABS lights shining .... I have a 1998 Toyota Corolla and a 1978 Triumph Spitfire presently, and have owned 2002 Honda Accord, and Civics, 1998 Proteges and Escorts, I have NEVER owned a small car that can stop in the distance my SV650S does on a regular effortless basis.... That little Sonic in that example he stated, rear ended my SUV one day as I heard the tires screech, locked up sliding, and totaled my Sportage because having brakes are only as good as your contact to the surface... Skinny tires = no tires patch, aging tires = poor rubber and grip.. Your fully faired Harley might not be able to stop in the distance of a small 4 cyl car... but my SV sure as heck can... I've proven it in practice or real world, not just numbers of ideals from professionals on a board... Your daughter may be able to do all those things on a one off, but stats prove that people that are doing all those things while driving are far more dangerous than someone being attentive, and 99 % of the time, she's NOT going to stop in time...
Use your logic. Give yourself always plenty of room for unexpected situations and, that's still not a guarantee? I started riding at 14 and now I am 72. Most of the guys I rode with are either dead or cripple for life. Be smart, stay safe.
The biggest reason for the blame game early on is rather simple. I forget who said it, way old quote. It is impossible to get someone to understand something if their livelihood depends on NOT understanding it. Or in this case, their fun. Namely, they want to go fast. I remember a video of a bike almost hit because he was doing 70mph in a 30 residential street. Almost universally, everyone was blaming the car pulling out because he was supposedly supposed to magically realize how fast the biker was going. Almost no one was willing to factor speed into it. They shunned the very idea. And the issue about understanding is more than speed. It is an unwillingness to recognize their own behavior can contribute or cause a crash. Not inability to recognize, but unwillingness. It is really easy to decide everyone else is a bad driver. But....they manage to get down the road amongst each other. And most have few incidents in life. While said rider is on his third wreck of the year. Examine the common denominator. To quote a comedian Ron White about marriage and divorce "After 3 it is me. I'm a bleep head."
I have a similar issue of a car merging into a motor officer that is riding at 22mph over the posted speed and in the driver's blindspot. Not the drivers fault...
Thanks for this Bret! Blaming the other guy has become one of my pet peeves in the motorcycle community. Combing over NHTSA data every year, it’s so aggravating to see so many folks get hung up on blaming drivers when such a large portion of accidents are rider only.
As someone who had a car pull out in front of me on a round about, it sucks to be in the 7% of casualties that are cased by other drivers Lucky the other driver only crushed my ankle and ruined my bike. I was lucky to walk (or hop) away with no permanent injuries. RIDE SAFE.
Maybe courses to get a license should get harder so u actually get on the road when u know how to drive ( I’m from Germany and to get my license I had to be in a lot of theoretical courses similar to this video and I probably did like 700km on the road with an instructor until I got my license)
Excellent video. I would like to catch you live if your ever doing one of these in Florida or Georgia. The dude that hit the Vette was on the "Tail of the Dragon aka: US129" in North Carolina , He was a relatively new rider, just moments before was waving at a roadside photographer and not paying attention to the more important thing where he was going. He died the Corvette was destroyed. The car vs bike stopping distance is only a direct result of automobiles have, for over two decades, mandated ABS systems. If the rider does not become VERY PROFICIENT with using max braking energy they can not stop rapidly nor any where close to what ABS is capable of.
I question to some extent the accuracy of these brake tests. The reason is, a brake test does not simulate a real emergency. When you have an emergency, your focus intensifies significantly. Perfect example: I went into a corner at an intersection slightly hanging off the seat. Unfortunately the oncoming car made a left hand turn. My braking was not governed by what I thought I could get away with. It was governed by the rate at which I thought I needed to avoid contact with the car. Even thought all my weight was well below the bars, I still floated the rear tire for an extended distance. So I was balancing in a corner on the front wheel. At the very end of my stop, I finally lost balance, and the rear end of the bike came around to the inside of the corner. I came to a stop, facing 180 degrees from my original direction, and was standing legs spread over my fallen bike. The bike fell over as it came to a stop. NOW here is the point, there is no way I would be able to stop a bike that hard and balance that well in "TEST" conditions. I could not force my brain to do it. It was the potential of an accident that governed my willingness to brake hard. The bike was not capable of stopping any faster than it did, as it floated the rear tire.
I agree about emergencies vs not. I scored low on braking in my license test, but just high enough to pass. They said "brake as hard as you can", and my brain just said "nope, not important enough". If what's at stake is stopping at one white line or the next one, I'm going to see if I can get away with stopping at the next one every time. If the instructor had jumped out in front of me, I would have stopped three lines before that no problem. I know this the same way you do.
In the large city I live in, fatalities in traffic are definitely mostly caused by left turning vehicles. Not many rider caused single bike fatalities. Some ARE rider avoidable, even when the other party is at fault. That is an important point, as we suffer the consequences regardless. Pay attention, continue to learn and become safer riders.
Almost made the amateur mistake of slamming into the back of a car during an emergency stop in a rainstorm. We're told a 2 second rule on bikes, vs the 3 sec. on cars. You can react faster, and stop faster. Well that's not really the case. Even if the bike on a spreadsheet can stop faster doesn't mean it/ you can consistently stop near it's maximum braking specs as often as someone sitting in a car is capable of. The factors that went into my almost accident I'm sure a lot of riders will deal with at some point. 1. Old tires, my tires are old. Old tires may still look great tread wise, but the rubber gets dried out making them harder and slick. 2. Fork seals were dirty and had a slight leak, this caused a more dramatic nosedive and weight shift. Taking longer for that front tire to get the weight shift it needed to do it's job further increasing the stopping distance. 3. Rear wheel lock up. The dramatic weight shift lifting too much weight off the back wheel too fast making it near useless and locking up under light pressure reducing the riders confidence in the whole procedure of stopping the bike timely. All combined moving quickly towards the car you reset and try the whole braking procedure over from scratch until you get the right stopping performance. All increasing braking stopping distance. My used shadow with only 15k miles on it in that scenario has nearly double the stopping distance of what the specs says it can do and that's if I'm fully prepared and not panic braking. Luckily I wasn't.
@@lubey111 its not that, its because there are clips showing people riding on the right side of the road, and he said that his job is teaching people in the us, i think thats why i wrote that
If I remember correctly, here in Finland highest cause of deaths on bikes are crashes with mooses and deers, then next is cars. We have lower speed than USA tough with highest allowed highway speed being 120kmh (74mph).
The is absolutely in my mind the best video you have done. I’ve watched many times. But now it’s shorter. Is the rest of it somewhere?am I missing something.
Would love to find out Bret's advice on braking technique with ABS. Is it the same as without ABS - set and progressive squeeze? Or are you better of hard break from the start and let ABS control it? I've heard of car panic breaking where manufacturers considered system that would recognize panic braking and apply full force as the driver might not use the full G potential.
My G meter has peaked my 2020 Hyundai Veloster N at 1.7G or so on a hard canyon brake event. That was wildly sickening. Almost no riders will ever be able to safely match that. Keep distances.
1. I stay in my lane as a Conservative rider. Cars crossing the road and not looking really makes my adrenaline to spike. I've seen gravel take out riders and excessive speed for road conditions. 2. I thought mass would cause the cars to stop in less time/distance. My mistake. 3. I never trusted ABS as a replacement for awareness and proper braking discipline.
Fantastic material Brett, my understanding of the Australian data is that it matches the material you have presented. If you get to Australia, I hope to catch you live one day.
I don't think saying that the brakes are only made for slowing down is different than stopping is very correct. If the brakes are made on sport bikes to optimize deceleration, then it directly means the stopping distance is optimized. The braking coefficient won't suddenly become less because you are trying to stop dead instead of brake into a corner that is just not correct.
those percentages in the beginning are described as separate but the total is 104% and that is, well, mathematically wrong. So, did someone not pay attention or is there some overlap somewhere?
Hi Bret, I love your videos. ... and many thanks for sharing your expertise. But there is a question I'm interested in: What are the 4% overdue of the 72% Single vehicle accidents and the 32% multi vehicle accidents? Greetings from an European motorcicle rider who re-starts after an almost 30 years break.
great video. Riders need to learn that most accidents are there fault! The only thing i found interesting is the braking distance of a harley and the duc. Have both sport and harley. I can stop signifanctly faster on a sport bike. to zero. Maybe I just found out not a good harley rider.
I agree with you. I don't understand why this would be true. I had a Harley Road King that weighed over 700 pounds and it seemed to stop a lot slower than my other bikes (FJR1300, Hayabusa). I literally locked up the brakes and skidded on the Harley and it didn't stop. I understand that the brakes are different (according to the video), but weight is a factor as well.
Got my endorsement with Puget Sound Safety last fall, taking it slow and safe on my 19 gsa. Looking forward to taking more classes when things calm down finally : )
I will be interested to find out why we don’t achieve maximum braking. Is it a physical restriction as I must admit hanging on whilst hard braking is really difficult and uncomfortable.
ABS vs non-ABS---Not a lot of difference with one important qualification----a dry, clean road surface. Once you get into less ideal conditions, like riding in the rain, ABS has a tremendous advantage.
Fact sitting red light got rear ended. Fact bumper hitch saved us. Got new bike walked away hurting but coherent. There is a reason we call the other guys riding in cages. Do not ryde like a crotch rocket junkie. My spyder stops on a dime. Perhaps you should upgrade!
What about cars turning left in front of you ? Several of us were out riding. A pickup truck from a side road pulled out in front of us. He did not stop to look he just pulled out. The rider in front of me was far enough forward that he was able to clear safely but if the truck had not stopped when he did I would have plowed into his door panel. I swerved to miss him and we continued our ride. We were in a staggered formation and doing the speed limit. Another time we had a group of deer pass through the middle of a pack of riders. How not one deer was hit which is nothing short of miraculous.
Lots of truths here. I generally find other bikes to be the most dangerous to be close to on the road and my safety antennae are always on alert when I see another bike in my rearview mirror. I always let them through to do their generally reckless riding. Yes, cars will do stupid things, but in my 20 years riding on and off road I have always found fellow bikers to be a danger unto themselves.
VW T2 lift back end up like motorcycle in full brake when finnish car magazine test it in seventies. They put the picture to the cover. With ordinary tires and engine is back end. Hard or what?
Actually the issue with bike stopping is even worse than this suggests. Much worse. These stats are based on straight line stopping . Bike don't stop hard and corner well at the same time. The front wheel grips really well cornering but it can't brake hard and corner hard especially on an uneven surface like a country road. A car however has not only 4 times the redundancy but a vastly greater area of contact. But this is where it gets real interesting. While a bike can trail brake or rear brake and you can use some front brake indeed the better technique is to plan to ride harder and use counter steering to corner properly. Because the grip threshold of the motorcycle tyres especially when tyres are warm is much higher than most people realise. But and there is a big but... everything depends on the real world conditions you are riding in. And if the surface has loose gravel, undulations or other things that may compromise adhesion. Then you'd better ride accordingly... And some riders don't. You can't blame anything on anyone else. Your ride your responsibility always... And if you can't suck this up don't ride... And yep I've ridden across a whole range of countries. Cheers all
When we're you in New Zealand? I wish I'd known about this. I'm an ex cop and know Pete really well. I'm. Also a member of the Blue Knights NZ. I hope you get back again soon after this covid madness is over.
I always see motorcyclists 'hugging' the center line and as a rider I have to wonder why. if you are at the center of the road and someone does not see you and passes you have much further to go to avoid them.
Another piece of the jigsaw. Thank you. I understand that human aspects are probably the most important part of the whole scenario. To use myself as an example, I know I am only average, but I don't try to exceed my average. Hence I always arrive at my destination. Usually last, but that's fine with me. I'm not in a race. (Valentino is 1000 times better than me, but because he is always on the limit, no matter how good he is, if he crosses that fine line he comes off) Better knowledge and experience with correct techniques will raise my average. And therefore I should become better. Every day's a school day. Enjoying this very much. Happy travels.
i've been riding for about 30 years, i refuse to ride with cars, if I'm on a paved surface that has cars on it, i want a car too or a bus or maybe a cement mixer.... i don't even really understand why anybody would want to ride on the road, there aren't many jumps, you cant wheelie without getting in trouble, no roosting up hills or splashing through rivers, it's boring, restrictive and dangerous
thanks Bret, always excellent advice. My only disappointment is that I never knew you visited NZ in 2020! Did you speak at the 2021 Shiny Side Up at Dunedin? Sadly I missed it again but will make a determined effort if you visit in 2022. Ride Safe
If you want text notification for new videos, text "Tkacs" to 888-306-7782 (now say that 5 times fast... "text Tkacs to"
You can't underestimate the value of these videos. Really appreciated. This simple upload may save one or more lives. Thank-you.
@Dayga and what will? Do you have any useful videos for me?
I just had an accident end of May, car turned out left to other lane around a sunken manhole, I faded to right of lane to separate from car’s possible left turn to a court right there, and then saw the sunken manhole so went around it right. The car didn’t turn left on court, but bee-lined back into our lane and diagonally across to make a braking, hasty right turn into gas station. I was still on right side of lane and got stuck in a corner.
Collided side of car just behind right rear tire at approx 60 km/hr. Bounced off the car and went over it, landing approx 10m on the pavement. Stood up and walked around to pick up my VStrom650 with help of a guy who ran over from the pumps (aluminum cases packed for a ocean getaway 2 hours away-accident was 10 min from my house). Ambulance got there and they suggested I ride with them to hospital, even though I said I was “fine” each time asked.
I don’t have any recollection of this, for me it was the side of the car closeup, and then the ceiling lights in the hospital going by. I learned it all later.
Honestly, I don’t know what happened. I’m a cautious rider and thankfully I always wear all my gear (armoured). Calf high adv boots, elbows, shoulders, hips, knees, hands are all armoured, plus a collar that works with my full-face helmet to limit vertebrae tilt. I feel all this stuff got me through without breaking bones. I’m still mending though, left knee and right shoulder. Goodbye $700cnd Schubert’s S2!
Without the road hazard making us both adjust/react, this wouldn’t have happened. I’d still be properly in left side lane with a shit-load more options than I had. The swerve out and the manhole I think adjusted my follow distance, and their hasty deceleration turn was the coup de gras.
This was my first accident with another vehicle in 23 years of riding. Second major moto accident though. First was ‘03 perpendicular hit with a coyote at 130km/hr (110km posted). Slid/tumbled 68m/220’. My Kawi Concours ended up 147m/480’ down the road on the opposite soft shoulder. September early morning, Coyote comes out of spruce shadow at full run 3m/9’ infront of me. Invisible until the sun hit him. Lesson Learned: wait until sun is higher to travel. In any other lighting situation I would have seen the coyote moving from way up the road.
Both my accidents were about wrong place in the wrong time. As my old fighter pilot friend said to me after the coyote (also a long distance rider), “a few more scrubs of your toothbrush that morning and you wouldn’t have crossed that coyote.”
I hope these tales are helpful. Enjoy your ride, safely.
Same here bro..sorry quick recovery.
😂 no accidents happen at the right time its always at the wrong time & wrong place. Takecare..
Spend some money and upgrade to a spyder. Have you ever heard of ABS Brimbo brakes? Do not buy cheap bikes and ride them like you are in the movies. Hell yes ABS on the street don't have it slow down.
Absolutely!!! Thanks for sharing.
Do you know what? I've been riding for almost 3 years now and I started to honestly believe, when people said ride safe, that I would always say "yeah I do but other people are idiots!" I really did start to believe it was mostly on them. Which kind of gave me the mentallity of 'is today going to be the last day im alive? Is riding really worth it?' But now that I realize how much more control of the outcome I have, its going to give me more confidence to work on my problem areas like braking! This was truly eye opening
Part of the learning to ride life cycle is what you just described above, everyone thinks that at some point.
I've been riding almost 16 years and the thing is, other people *are* idiots and it *is* mostly on them, at least so far as being the cause on an accident and in my personal experience. That's why it's up to you as a rider to always be 100% alert, aware, properly trained and always ready for the idiot s**t that other people are going to do on the road.
Too many people end up on the conclusion "it was the other guys fault", not enough follow that up with "but regardless of fault, I could have done something to avoid it anyway".
It's better to avoid a crash than to have the other guy's insurance pay your funeral costs because he was at fault.
After I'd been commuting by bike for a couple of years, I realized that every single time I'd seen dangerous driving (multiple times daily), I had noticed that driver and was already thinking that they were about to pull some dumb move. The few close calls I had were because I noticed but decided to "assert my rights". Even with the worst of intentions cars in traffic just don't accelerate or change direction all that quickly, so if I noticed them and still put myself in their path, who was the bigger idiot?
Certainly you can get unlucky and get completely blindsided. But in my experience, almost all the sketchy situations I've been in were ones that I chose to put myself into.
I'll just add that one cast iron rule I have is keep away from other motorcyclists in heavy traffic. They're less predictable, less likely to obey the road rules, less likely to signal, more likely overall to take risks, and generally harder to buffer and avoid than anybody else.
@@jaimemetcher388 Yah as much as they like to say 'cagers' are idiots, many motorcyclists are idiots and don't follow the rules either, when they have the most to lose from an accident since they're completely exposed. No air bag, no cage, no seat belt, a fender bender can take their leg off at the thigh. Not to mention driving way too fast and thinking they're on a superbike racetrack.....that's on them, not the person in the car who may have made a mistake but the biker was going so fast they had no time to react.
Besides from the useful information this man can present extremely well
Exactly what I was thinking!
Agreed with you..even me from Malaysia also understand what was he want to throw it out
So the gist of it is, I think, what kills riders is combination of lack of understanding ones ability, riding close or above ones ability (aka overconfidence) and expecting other road users to accommodate you when you should really be taking upon yourself to maintain wide margin for errors of other drivers and your own.
So the solutions are:
1. understand your ability (to corner, to avoid stuff, to react and break, etc.)
2. don't ride in public at your limits (you can't do that if you don't know your limits),
3. maintain safe distance from other road users and act is if they (or you) were always about to make a mistake.
It is funny how improving your technical ability is NOT on my list. What I mean, you can have ability of Valentino Rossi but still be in high danger of dying if you ride at your technical limits in public where a surprising situation can suddenly put you outside your limits. Ability only makes you safer if you employ it to make you safer (ie. when it lets you keep larger amount of margin for error). I also believe that a beginner rider can ride safely as long as he understand that he is beginner, what this means exactly (ie. that he isn't able to react very well to many situations) and so keeps appropriate margin for his own errors and errors of others.
I am not against building ability. I just noticed that for many people the act of getting more ability causes them to reduce margins -- they ride faster, more confident and use the ability to reduce margins. From purely safety point of view this is unproductive, in the ideal world the ability increase would be used to learn your own limitation and control margin for error.
@@tkorte101 I recommend an exercise where you visualize your stopping distance and then do an emergency stop. Then, when actually riding, I try to imagine the stopping point before me, it gets closer to me as I go slower and further away if I throttle up or commit to corner.
I’ve been riding on and off for 37 years. I’m not brilliant, I’m an ok rider, I should perhaps be better and do more training etc. But I always approach riding these days with a super awareness that I don’t want to die or paralyse myself. I think it’s absolutely essential to take responsibility for what you do on the road, even if someone else is at fault, try and make sure you anticipate what could happen.
Same goes for riding beyond your ability, the bike can do amazing things on a track, but can you, on the road? I know I can’t . And never show off, what’s the point?
I just enjoy that great 2 wheeled freedom, doesn’t have to be at 140 mph all the time.
so you admit you ride at least 140 'sometimes'...lol.I KNOW you don't have a Harley,so that's out.
You sound like a wise man....ride safely
"you are vulnerable" , "they want to kill you" .... combine that and you ride without your ego pushing you on. Then you wont get in trouble because you ride relaxed and in control.
Absolutely love this!
Its good stuff
Eyyy Dan ! I see ya bud !
Dan just entered the chat
You know its good when DanDan says so
Trouble is, this General statement is only partially true...
Weight and momentum make the difference...
My @V650S with Braided steel brake lines, stops harder than 1 G... Most any track rider on a track bike is stopping harder than 1 G. Most people on cruisers, have extra weight on the bike, and cannot stop at 1 G.... and of course, only a single passenger vehicle stripped down can actually pull 1 G in a stop.... Most vehicles on the road can't come close to 1 G stopping.. Those SUV grocery getters and minivans and work trucks loaded up to the gills will never stop in 1 G...
We've tested our braking on the track against our cars.... and the only car that was stopping close to the distance of our bikes, was a guys stripped down and souped up Subaru with Big Brembo brakes and sticky Nitto tires.... Half of our vehicles locked up and drug the tires because of failed or non-existant ABS... Yes a Vette with Carbon fiber brakes can stop faster than my bike.... Most cars don't have carbon fiber brakes :P
The great Soichiro Honda was quoted as saying he'd made many mistakes over the years, but that each of them he made only once. I think Mr. Honda's standard for learning from errors was extremely high, and worth striving for in my own reduction of riding miscues.
Buy yourself an inexpensive dirt bike, ride it on trails, sand, asphalt crash a few times and you learn how not to crash. If you crash a bike, it's your fault, no one else's. If a car turns in front of you, still your fault because you didn't leave yourself an out and just assumed they would let you go first. Tired of these "experts" telling others how to ride, when they haven't done squat. If you are going to ride paranoid then you will crash, if you ride like a maniac you will crash. Ride relaxed and pay attention to everything around you, not just the lane you are in. A private riding course of a few hours will not teach you enough to be safe. If you are in highly populated area then it's not smart to ride a bike during rush hour, lane splitting, weaving in and out of traffic. Use common sense you will be ok, if you have none, don't ride a bike, period.
Someone from my high school just passed away last year in an accident on his Harley. He failed to stay in his lane and was hit so hard that the police code indicated body parts in multiple places.
Another friend of mine lost someone close because he decided it would be okay to ride home on an unfamiliar bike after having a drink or 2.
Take your time, go the speed limit, don’t drink, and go to a track if you want to get reckless. It’s seriously not worth it. Ride safe out there
You said it man go to the track if you want to be reckless recking that bike is reckless enough for most of us sorry for your loss(es) I'm still unsure if I want to be a rider yet
austin tomkewitz they’re not as dangerous as you’d think if you just ride responsibly.
Someone I looked up to when I was younger also died in a motorcycle accident, but again... his fault. He was popping a wheelie on a public road, lost control when he put the front end back down, wrecked, and slid right under a car.
92% of accidents occur with a rider that didn’t take a MSF course, 44% involve alcohol, 93% occur on a bike bigger than 500cc, and most people love wearing black which makes you hard to see. In over 90% of accidents, the motorcycle is the striking vehicle typically because someone pulled out after not seeing them or they misjudged how much time they had because the motorcyclist was speeding.
Wear some hi-viz, take the MSF course, get proper gear head to toe, don’t speed around intersections, don’t drink and ride, practice slow speed maneuvers, get a smaller bike to start with, and you’ll be fine. It sounds like a lot, but it’s actually pretty simple when broken down.
Just the fact that you’re worried about safety and aren’t sure if motorcycling is for you means you’re likely thinking about safety enough to avoid becoming another statistic.
As for me, I absolutely love ripping my WR250R around town and backroads. There’s no other feeling like it. Exploring off road places I’m not supposed to go is a rush too 😂
I also try to avoid riding on Fridays and Saturday’s from 3-9pm since 50% of accidents occur on weekends-mostly within these times.
Above all, model yourself after guys who have been riding a long time with very few to no wrecks. If you’re riding with someone who either has a bad track record or whose friends have bad track records (i.e. serious injuries or death), then you’re asking for the same trouble they got.
Matt Pierce as an European I can say start on a lower cc bike and always wear protection doesn’t matter who hot it is (from what I’m seeing on yt most Americans don’t wear all their gear and most seem to start on big bikes with no experience that’s why I’m saying that)
Ben I’ve actually modeled my own habits and learning around European policies. It’s insane to me that here in America, you can take one course and legally go hop on a 1200cc bike. I also wear full gear at all times. And yeah, a lot of us don’t wear gear. It’s idiotic IMO 😆
Matt Pierce it really is, safety should always be no 1 ride save
Blaming a driver that “did not see you” will get you nowhere. Slow your ass down, hand and foot at the ready. No winners in this game.
truth is,a massive amount of cage drivers actually DON'T see us.They see 'no car ahead'.
I go through busy roundabouts waving my left arm if I have too to make sure I am seen
Great teaching. I think the biggest danger is complacency on the part of the rider.
I love this man, he speaks with facts and no ego
Thank you
Bret-
No mention of the role tires play in braking. The brakes slow the wheels down, but it's the friction between the rubber and the road that stops you. The most powerful brakes in the world won't stop you any faster than the tires are capable of. And this is where cars have it all over bikes. They have twice as many tires with wider and larger contact areas. And 4 wheelers don't fall over if the wheels lock up. Obviously some high performance bikes may stop faster than a car or truck with cheap or worn out tires, but the pervasive myth among motorcyclists that it's safe to ride faster or follow closer on a bike because you have such great brakes is a dangerous myth.
Also cars weigh more. More weigh = more friction = more stopping power.
@@caLLLendar But also more weight that has to be stopped.
@@barryervin8536 THAT is very interesting! That's a good point. I'm not even sure how it all adds up. I'm not used to seeing good points in TH-cam comments. Please change your age to 13 and comment accordingly. Kneejerk response: I speculate that the friction is has more impact than the weight . . . . especially since heavier vehicles move slower. A BRR-80 stops on a dime!
Thank you. Your videos always provide useful info, but also encouragement and confidence. Thank you; even my family also thanks you for making our rides safer, longer, and more enjoyable. This channel, FortNine, and Dave Moss Tuning have probably saved countless lives, and $$$.
That motorcycle riders are at fault in a majority of accidents is hardly a surprise. Fortunately when I started riding at the age of three my father made it abundantly clear that when it comes to street riding the greatest threat is not car drivers, but the rider.
To paraphrase a comment originally regarding avation: "Riding a motorcycle is not in and of itself inherently dangerous, but to a much greater degree than driving a car it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity, or neglect." (Captain A G Lamplugh, British Aviation Insurance Group, London (early 1930's).)
After sixty four years and over 1,250,000+ kilometers on two wheels on the street and roadracing I still learn something from every ride. Sure, I have scars to show for it, but have been involved in only one accident that I could not walk away from: a head on collision with another motorcycle on my favourite twisty road. I had a totalled motorcycle, a six CM gash in my helmet, thoroughly rashed leather jacket and pants, a compound fractured left arm, torn Radial nerve, broken toe, and a slight headache. He, on the other hand, had no gear whatsoever. He died of a 10 CM depressed skull fracture and / or exsanguination from a partial traumatic amputation of his left knee. That it was his fault does not mitigate my responsibility in the accident: I was following racing lines, which gave me no sight line that may have given me enough warning that there was someone coming toward me WAY over on my side of the road in a blind corner. The E.R. doctor asked if I was going to give up riding, and I said "Hell no! Planning my next bike!"
The point is I learned from it, and applying everything I have since learned have not come near another accident in the last forty five years.
That said, I am sure of one thing ... I do not know it all.
Never will.
Still learning.
Rob
[...]is called "oh-shit-breaking"[...] Bret, you're the best! XD
Beautifully presented, Brent, and just information that every rider needs to open and take in, and I don't even have a bike yet. Rode bikes as a kid in the Midwest growing up and thankfully did mostly off road stuff so I did not kill myself on road. Am hoping to get a Honda CB500x, and when I do, I will bring it up to your training school to learn not only how to ride it off road but also on the street. Thank you for all that you do--you are saving lives out there!!
All so true, The Harley having the best braking distance, I understand that wheelbase matters. The longer it is the more it aids stopping. Why because in my youth my friend handbuilt bicycles. He built a tandem with the same front tyre and brake as his solo touring bikes. (A brazed-on cantilever with the grippiest brake blocks available). The tandem stopped significantly quicker than the solo. Why given the longer wheelbase & the weight of the pillion it was impossible to lift the rear wheel off the ground. And it was so easier to stop, that's operate, than the solo. Thanks for the videos.
It is more complex than that... But it follows the general direction
@@BretTkacs I'm no physicist & haven't got half of your knowledge. It was just an eye-opener, & a long time ago, that with over twice the weight I could stop quicker than the other blokes. It got me thinking. All the best you run a great channel.
Enduro> everything else
@@berniebne8243 stop like the guy that smacked the vette I'd rather be able to avoid 100% you could not keep up with my 1991 dr250 in the city in the twisty hell off the line till about 3rd gear big bulky POS cruisers
i noticed normal (non-sport) cars stop slower than those bikes. so overall, if you would account for all cars and bikes, you would say bikes stop faster, and then "brakes to slow, not stop bikes" argument goes to toilet. so that particular aspect lefts me unimpressed, although you kinda corrected it later, but then why bring it up in the first place...to surprise? must be pedagogic...huhm
offcourse, to stop real quick on bike you need certain skill level which will be mighty hard to teach/learn, but overall, average bike stops faster than average car.
but bike being ridden by rider, yeah, problems multiply....mostly concerning skill level.
your daughter multitasking... that's just feminism... average women will mostly do "oh shit braking", even in the middle of the curve, when they need none, at 60kph. how do i know? sooner or later you find some cars in front of you...and patterns emerge...
but yeah, she'll stop faster _in the curve_, that was your point never convened (or did, in another video?), and ,offcourse, while being 100% focused, no phones or sandwiches.
tractor in the middle of the curve, doing 15kph, while i'm doing 100, now that's a decent test for biker's braking skills.
i think the point of it all should be many riders forget closed circuits (tracks) are places to test you speed/skill, not the public roads.
and we all are guilty, all of us.
I disagree with bike stopping, if equipped with abs braking! I own a 2016 FJR and the stopping power of this bike is incredible, the best I've ever ridden. Most of the current Japanese bikes are all equipped with abs. That being said driver skill and awareness or situational awareness are the key factors of avoiding accidents wether your own or others causing them. I am proud of my personal record of avoiding/ reaction time to others trying to kill me! Granted, not being totally focused on what's in front of you can kill you as well, and over the years( younger years) I did have a few close calls, but invariably stopped in time. The weight of the bike and rider /riders ( two up) or not also plays a big factor in stopping. Extra caution should be used when two up, always!!! Now you have two lives in your hands, so stay alert! In the end " Speed KILLS " is the truest statement when on two wheels, racing and reaching crazy speeds on busy highways/ interstates is death waiting to happen! I've seen it too many times in the news, new rider killed in first week of riding hires new bike! Or first month, or year! It's easy to go fast, it's knowing when it's safe to do that can make the difference between living our dying! We all want to open our bikes up to see the acceleration capabilities or even the top end! Knowing when it's safe to do( deserted dry highway) or not ( congested wet or dry highway, weaving thru tragic) is a death wish waiting for one vehicle to change lanes when you don't expect it! Drive safe everyone, slow down, stay alert, live another day!
He mentioned that in 2016 the ABS was improved. I have a 2007 FJR. It seems to stop faster than a Harley or my jeep. Another thing that was not mentioned . . . I think I pay attention more when riding a motorcycle. No music playing either. I'm wondering if awareness / alertness is a factor.
When he was talking about braking I didn't hear him say a word about using the front brake, you know, the one that provides 80% of your stopping power! Most riders never use their front brake. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a Harley rider do that. All the back brake does (in an emergency stop) is leave a long black skid mark to the scene of the accident. Also, if you don't use your front brake every time you stop, you won't in an emergency.
i rarely use the rear brake tbh, dont know any riders who use rear more than front.
@@tractorboyracer9165 i do
a lot of videos on here,where biker goes down ,no one else around, are rider grabbing too much front brake..... you can always let go of brake(front or rear) if you start to skid
Every rider should watch this and drivers too. Its quite eye opening
Nearly all the information applies to bicycle riders as well (except perhaps for anti-squat). I didn't go thru with getting my moto licence due to a mountain biking injury (which taught me about risk compensation the hard way), but what I learned about buffering and other strategies in the pre-learner's course has saved my butt on several occasions while cycling. Your points about fear, sight lines, braking balance and trail braking all resonate. Thanks for sharing.
Brett, you are a great teacher and you have taught me a lot. I hope to take a class from you some day!
i felt very assured after watching this. Great content.
Some very surprising information, thanks Bret.
You are a great teacher! Getting into motorcycling and really appreciate these lessons
Your most excellent 3-part presentation will most definitely precipitate a change in my street riding behavior. At some point in the near future, you’ll see me on one of your international treks
I love this so much. So many riders can't take responsibility and find it easier to blame drivers.
smooth in smooth out, no points for speed.
Dam......No more Knock it down , Chuck it in , Scrag it out when out for a bit of balls to the wall ride the wheels of it ..."FUN" ....maybe if ask nice can still sneak in the odd " in slow, out fast " late apex bend swinging.....Before have to head the KIA shop for a nice safe econ box (none "stick") if the type that finds eating with a knife and fork a dark art with a high risk of self harm.
....all very good but draw the line at pop tarts skinny latte for breakfast.......make mine a kipper and a mug of Rosey Lee ...now where put that box spanner and tin of Gunk.
@The Fancy Bear Why not have two and make some smoke ?....Ying Ding Ding Ying ..Ying Ying Ding .....time for a plug chop yet ?
@The Fancy Bear Head over or Wood trees ? Would you like a 50/50 or phone a
friend on that one Fancy ?
@The Fancy Bear or something ....but have had "a kipper for breakfast" we in the mood.
@The Fancy Bear META TARO old chap META TARO then and only then can one
even think of THE BOTTOM OF BARREGARROW moving on over the hills and far
far away.
My only problem is the braking distances shown for bikes are planned braking. Actual emergency braking numbers are much worse on bikes and that's where ABS braking distances are much shorter. It's a different world when you're trying to brake to save your life..
Even the low stopping performance numbers were from a 3 stop average. You are correct.
Love your delivery Bret! When i think about breaking and following relative to traffic I try to assume that the one in front of me can stop faster than me, and the one behind me can't stop as fast as me. I just find that keeps my focus when checking mirrors and watching ahead, anticipating the appropriate reaction.
My 2002 SV650S without ABS can still brake much harder than any small car I have owned...
but I have never owned anything brand new, but most of the vehicles on the road aren't new... most of the vehicles on the road have failed ABS lights shining ....
I have a 1998 Toyota Corolla and a 1978 Triumph Spitfire presently, and have owned 2002 Honda Accord, and Civics, 1998 Proteges and Escorts, I have NEVER owned a small car that can stop in the distance my SV650S does on a regular effortless basis....
That little Sonic in that example he stated, rear ended my SUV one day as I heard the tires screech, locked up sliding, and totaled my Sportage because having brakes are only as good as your contact to the surface... Skinny tires = no tires patch, aging tires = poor rubber and grip..
Your fully faired Harley might not be able to stop in the distance of a small 4 cyl car... but my SV sure as heck can... I've proven it in practice or real world, not just numbers of ideals from professionals on a board...
Your daughter may be able to do all those things on a one off, but stats prove that people that are doing all those things while driving are far more dangerous than someone being attentive, and 99 % of the time, she's NOT going to stop in time...
Use your logic. Give yourself always plenty of room for unexpected situations and, that's still not a guarantee? I started riding at 14 and now I am 72. Most of the guys I rode with are either dead or cripple for life. Be smart, stay safe.
Really eye opening info, thank you for making this available!
The biggest reason for the blame game early on is rather simple. I forget who said it, way old quote.
It is impossible to get someone to understand something if their livelihood depends on NOT understanding it. Or in this case, their fun. Namely, they want to go fast.
I remember a video of a bike almost hit because he was doing 70mph in a 30 residential street. Almost universally, everyone was blaming the car pulling out because he was supposedly supposed to magically realize how fast the biker was going. Almost no one was willing to factor speed into it. They shunned the very idea. And the issue about understanding is more than speed. It is an unwillingness to recognize their own behavior can contribute or cause a crash. Not inability to recognize, but unwillingness.
It is really easy to decide everyone else is a bad driver. But....they manage to get down the road amongst each other. And most have few incidents in life. While said rider is on his third wreck of the year. Examine the common denominator.
To quote a comedian Ron White about marriage and divorce "After 3 it is me. I'm a bleep head."
I have a similar issue of a car merging into a motor officer that is riding at 22mph over the posted speed and in the driver's blindspot. Not the drivers fault...
So well presented, thank you Bret! Great to be reminded of all this again!
Thanks for this Bret! Blaming the other guy has become one of my pet peeves in the motorcycle community. Combing over NHTSA data every year, it’s so aggravating to see so many folks get hung up on blaming drivers when such a large portion of accidents are rider only.
Accelerate coming out of the corner nice and smooth.
As someone who had a car pull out in front of me on a round about, it sucks to be in the 7% of casualties that are cased by other drivers
Lucky the other driver only crushed my ankle and ruined my bike. I was lucky to walk (or hop) away with no permanent injuries.
RIDE SAFE.
Brakes for racing bikes are not made for stopping, they are meant to slow down the bike! It says so much even for non racing bikes too! Thanks sir!
Funny and educational. Love it. Thanks for sharing
Should be required watching to get a license - nice work keeping us safe Bret.
Maybe courses to get a license should get harder so u actually get on the road when u know how to drive ( I’m from Germany and to get my license I had to be in a lot of theoretical courses similar to this video and I probably did like 700km on the road with an instructor until I got my license)
Excellent video. I would like to catch you live if your ever doing one of these in Florida or Georgia. The dude that hit the Vette was on the "Tail of the Dragon aka: US129" in North Carolina , He was a relatively new rider, just moments before was waving at a roadside photographer and not paying attention to the more important thing where he was going. He died the Corvette was destroyed. The car vs bike stopping distance is only a direct result of automobiles have, for over two decades, mandated ABS systems. If the rider does not become VERY PROFICIENT with using max braking energy they can not stop rapidly nor any where close to what ABS is capable of.
I question to some extent the accuracy of these brake tests. The reason is, a brake test does not simulate a real emergency. When you have an emergency, your focus intensifies significantly. Perfect example: I went into a corner at an intersection slightly hanging off the seat. Unfortunately the oncoming car made a left hand turn. My braking was not governed by what I thought I could get away with. It was governed by the rate at which I thought I needed to avoid contact with the car. Even thought all my weight was well below the bars, I still floated the rear tire for an extended distance. So I was balancing in a corner on the front wheel. At the very end of my stop, I finally lost balance, and the rear end of the bike came around to the inside of the corner. I came to a stop, facing 180 degrees from my original direction, and was standing legs spread over my fallen bike. The bike fell over as it came to a stop. NOW here is the point, there is no way I would be able to stop a bike that hard and balance that well in "TEST" conditions. I could not force my brain to do it. It was the potential of an accident that governed my willingness to brake hard. The bike was not capable of stopping any faster than it did, as it floated the rear tire.
I agree about emergencies vs not. I scored low on braking in my license test, but just high enough to pass. They said "brake as hard as you can", and my brain just said "nope, not important enough". If what's at stake is stopping at one white line or the next one, I'm going to see if I can get away with stopping at the next one every time. If the instructor had jumped out in front of me, I would have stopped three lines before that no problem. I know this the same way you do.
Unbelievably brilliant presentation !
This is a masterpiece!! Thanks for sharing!!
In the large city I live in, fatalities in traffic are definitely mostly caused by left turning vehicles. Not many rider caused single bike fatalities. Some ARE rider avoidable, even when the other party is at fault. That is an important point, as we suffer the consequences regardless. Pay attention, continue to learn and become safer riders.
Almost made the amateur mistake of slamming into the back of a car during an emergency stop in a rainstorm. We're told a 2 second rule on bikes, vs the 3 sec. on cars. You can react faster, and stop faster. Well that's not really the case. Even if the bike on a spreadsheet can stop faster doesn't mean it/ you can consistently stop near it's maximum braking specs as often as someone sitting in a car is capable of. The factors that went into my almost accident I'm sure a lot of riders will deal with at some point. 1. Old tires, my tires are old. Old tires may still look great tread wise, but the rubber gets dried out making them harder and slick. 2. Fork seals were dirty and had a slight leak, this caused a more dramatic nosedive and weight shift. Taking longer for that front tire to get the weight shift it needed to do it's job further increasing the stopping distance. 3. Rear wheel lock up. The dramatic weight shift lifting too much weight off the back wheel too fast making it near useless and locking up under light pressure reducing the riders confidence in the whole procedure of stopping the bike timely. All combined moving quickly towards the car you reset and try the whole braking procedure over from scratch until you get the right stopping performance. All increasing braking stopping distance. My used shadow with only 15k miles on it in that scenario has nearly double the stopping distance of what the specs says it can do and that's if I'm fully prepared and not panic braking. Luckily I wasn't.
1:35 why was that car on the wrong side of the road?
In New Zealand they drive on the opposite side of the road. The car was NOT the one on the wrong side of the road
@@BretTkacs wait, i thought this was usa lmao my bad sorry
@@EctoGamer Understandable since you don't normally see too many corvettes outside of the US. They only come in LHD from the factory.
@@lubey111 its not that, its because there are clips showing people riding on the right side of the road, and he said that his job is teaching people in the us, i think thats why i wrote that
If I remember correctly, here in Finland highest cause of deaths on bikes are crashes with mooses and deers, then next is cars. We have lower speed than USA tough with highest allowed highway speed being 120kmh (74mph).
1:22 Moss just went by real quick🤣
5:05 Funny thing. If car stop faster, why I get blurry vision and neck pain only when braking bike?
The is absolutely in my mind the best video you have done. I’ve watched many times. But now it’s shorter. Is the rest of it somewhere?am I missing something.
This was 1/3rd of a talk I did in New Zealand. There are two other videos to complete the entire talk.
So that is why my piaggio mp3 is much safer then 2wheelers. It is slow, brakes excellent and with more confidence and corners like on rails.
Would love to find out Bret's advice on braking technique with ABS. Is it the same as without ABS - set and progressive squeeze? Or are you better of hard break from the start and let ABS control it? I've heard of car panic breaking where manufacturers considered system that would recognize panic braking and apply full force as the driver might not use the full G potential.
Interesting
Thank you, Bret! This is one of the best videos on this subject!
Brilliant presentation, very informative and thought provoking.
So eager to see more of this talk! Great content and great presentation!
My G meter has peaked my 2020 Hyundai Veloster N at 1.7G or so on a hard canyon brake event.
That was wildly sickening. Almost no riders will ever be able to safely match that. Keep distances.
1. I stay in my lane as a Conservative rider. Cars crossing the road and not looking really makes my adrenaline to spike. I've seen gravel take out riders and excessive speed for road conditions.
2. I thought mass would cause the cars to stop in less time/distance. My mistake.
3. I never trusted ABS as a replacement for awareness and proper braking discipline.
Fantastic material Brett, my understanding of the Australian data is that it matches the material you have presented. If you get to Australia, I hope to catch you live one day.
is it possible do download this presentation?
I don't think saying that the brakes are only made for slowing down is different than stopping is very correct. If the brakes are made on sport bikes to optimize deceleration, then it directly means the stopping distance is optimized. The braking coefficient won't suddenly become less because you are trying to stop dead instead of brake into a corner that is just not correct.
remember kids, spending few grand more for abs is well worth, using abs didn't make you less skilled rider...
That's only true when you already know how to break in various road conditions.
What a revealing video, it was short, well done 😀
those percentages in the beginning are described as separate but the total is 104% and that is, well, mathematically wrong. So, did someone not pay attention or is there some overlap somewhere?
Where do you teach the classes?
Hi Bret,
I love your videos.
... and many thanks for sharing your expertise.
But there is a question I'm interested in:
What are the 4% overdue of the 72% Single vehicle accidents and the 32% multi vehicle accidents?
Greetings from an European motorcicle rider who re-starts after an almost 30 years break.
Really nicely done. I can watch more of this, was very engaging
great video. Riders need to learn that most accidents are there fault! The only thing i found interesting is the braking distance of a harley and the duc. Have both sport and harley. I can stop signifanctly faster on a sport bike. to zero. Maybe I just found out not a good harley rider.
I agree with you. I don't understand why this would be true. I had a Harley Road King that weighed over 700 pounds and it seemed to stop a lot slower than my other bikes (FJR1300, Hayabusa). I literally locked up the brakes and skidded on the Harley and it didn't stop. I understand that the brakes are different (according to the video), but weight is a factor as well.
Is that Dave Moss at 1:22 crossing from right to left in the blue shirt??
Is that a Dave Moss cameo at 1:20? 😆
sure looks likes him, would be surprising if it's not
I can't find the link below
Got my endorsement with Puget Sound Safety last fall, taking it slow and safe on my 19 gsa. Looking forward to taking more classes when things calm down finally : )
Lookout for the Puget Debs, they will do anything for a free ticket out of there!
I will be interested to find out why we don’t achieve maximum braking. Is it a physical restriction as I must admit hanging on whilst hard braking is really difficult and uncomfortable.
ABS vs non-ABS---Not a lot of difference with one important qualification----a dry, clean road surface. Once you get into less ideal conditions, like riding in the rain, ABS has a tremendous advantage.
Can you provide the source for the data presented on the charts?
Really enjoyed this. A brilliant new perspective on an eye opening topic. Thankyou.
This is a great video, thanks Bret!
great video lots good solid advice
Hi do you have recommendation on riding gears...
Excellent content Brett, thanks for sharing!
Fact sitting red light got rear ended. Fact bumper hitch saved us. Got new bike walked away hurting but coherent. There is a reason we call the other guys riding in cages. Do not ryde like a crotch rocket junkie. My spyder stops on a dime. Perhaps you should upgrade!
What about cars turning left in front of you ? Several of us were out riding. A pickup truck from a side road pulled out in front of us. He did not stop to look he just pulled out. The rider in front of me was far enough forward that he was able to clear safely but if the truck had not stopped when he did I would have plowed into his door panel. I swerved to miss him and we continued our ride. We were in a staggered formation and doing the speed limit. Another time we had a group of deer pass through the middle of a pack of riders. How not one deer was hit which is nothing short of miraculous.
this guy is a gem
Lots of truths here. I generally find other bikes to be the most dangerous to be close to on the road and my safety antennae are always on alert when I see another bike in my rearview mirror. I always let them through to do their generally reckless riding. Yes, cars will do stupid things, but in my 20 years riding on and off road I have always found fellow bikers to be a danger unto themselves.
Very good information. Liked, subscribed and saved video
VW T2 lift back end up like motorcycle in full brake when finnish car magazine test it in seventies. They put the picture to the cover. With ordinary tires and engine is back end. Hard or what?
Good vid. Thanks. We see this all the time
Actually the issue with bike stopping is even worse than this suggests. Much worse. These stats are based on straight line stopping . Bike don't stop hard and corner well at the same time. The front wheel grips really well cornering but it can't brake hard and corner hard especially on an uneven surface like a country road. A car however has not only 4 times the redundancy but a vastly greater area of contact. But this is where it gets real interesting. While a bike can trail brake or rear brake and you can use some front brake indeed the better technique is to plan to ride harder and use counter steering to corner properly. Because the grip threshold of the motorcycle tyres especially when tyres are warm is much higher than most people realise. But and there is a big but... everything depends on the real world conditions you are riding in. And if the surface has loose gravel, undulations or other things that may compromise adhesion. Then you'd better ride accordingly... And some riders don't. You can't blame anything on anyone else. Your ride your responsibility always... And if you can't suck this up don't ride... And yep I've ridden across a whole range of countries. Cheers all
who fault is it -> whose fault is it ..... apart from that error excellent video, thanks
When we're you in New Zealand? I wish I'd known about this. I'm an ex cop and know Pete really well. I'm. Also a member of the Blue Knights NZ. I hope you get back again soon after this covid madness is over.
I always see motorcyclists 'hugging' the center line and as a rider I have to wonder why. if you are at the center of the road and someone does not see you and passes you have much further to go to avoid them.
I've used breaking in a corner or trail braking, but I've done also "oh-shit-breaking" sometimes :D
Another piece of the jigsaw. Thank you. I understand that human aspects are probably the most important part of the whole scenario. To use myself as an example, I know I am only average, but I don't try to exceed my average. Hence I always arrive at my destination. Usually last, but that's fine with me. I'm not in a race. (Valentino is 1000 times better than me, but because he is always on the limit, no matter how good he is, if he crosses that fine line he comes off)
Better knowledge and experience with correct techniques will raise my average. And therefore I should become better.
Every day's a school day.
Enjoying this very much.
Happy travels.
i've been riding for about 30 years, i refuse to ride with cars, if I'm on a paved surface that has cars on it, i want a car too or a bus or maybe a cement mixer.... i don't even really understand why anybody would want to ride on the road, there aren't many jumps, you cant wheelie without getting in trouble, no roosting up hills or splashing through rivers, it's boring, restrictive and dangerous
thanks Bret, always excellent advice. My only disappointment is that I never knew you visited NZ in 2020! Did you speak at the 2021 Shiny Side Up at Dunedin? Sadly I missed it again but will make a determined effort if you visit in 2022. Ride Safe