Why Harley Riders are the WORST Riders.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ม.ค. 2025
- Why is it that Harley Davidson riders seem to struggle with their riding skills more than riders of other brands of motorcycles? Is that an accurate statement or a bad stereotype?
Let's talk about it this week on MCrider.
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Uncharacteristically of you this one was poorly presented. U made it sound like all harley riders are bad u spoke about new riders tho. You should have stated new rider on Harleys struggle more than on smaller bikes. I'm 70 yo. And still ride a super glide. One of the smaller bikes I guess but I'm still hanging in there. Not sure where I go from there, a metric bike or 3 wheeler I guess. A new rider on any big bike is certainly going to struggle
@@johnmckinney8610exactly
Categorizing all harley riders because of your arrogant and low opinion of them, is ridiculous and I hope you don't get any monetary gain from videos like this.
@@johnmckinney8610then he shows a Hollywood film clip,instead of actual harley riders to prove his point. Yt is full of fakes, trying to make money This guys a chubby mess
Disagree to a large degree. Most people I know starting out simply cant afford a Harley these days
Harley was never a dream for me, 1st time I went into a Harley dealer & they told me I had to put $$ down & it would be a year before delivery
I laughed & walked out. Started on a Honda 100 over 40 years ago, then a 360 & Yamaha 750, put over 30k miles combined
Several bikes later , tons of miles & after 40+ years finally bought a Harley
Not because I really wanted a Harley, simply could not find another bike I liked
My son also started on a smaller bike, not a Harley
I practice avoiding sewer caps as I am driving, as they pop up from under a car ahead
I'm now 71 years old. While I still ride (I have 5 bikes), I no longer ride Harleys. 500 or so Lbs is my limit these days. Hey, I have to be realistic. To quote Dirty Harry, "A man has to know his limitations. " 😊 Ride safe, everybody.
Lezzzgoooo
Legend.. you have been a rider for longer than ive been alive.
Stay in the wind as long as you can, or want to.👍
Wise decision, I am 58 and my limit is 200 Kg 😊
My Harley Electra Glide Classic is my 7th motorcycle. I started overseas with a moped type on steroids to a Honda 450 to a Honda 750 to a kawasaki Vulcan to the Electra Glide Classic. At 70, it will most likely be my last motorcycle. I had some other small bikes in between.
Amen. I ride an Indian. At 19, I totalled one bike. The elderly lady who cut me off said she never saw me. At this time I realized that the only person responsible for keeping me (and my bike) in one piece... is me. After this, I take absolutely NOTHING for granted. Thanks for the info and Ride safe everyone!
that's a super important point to make. passive safety is not safety. any time one depends on someone else for their safety, it's a big mistake.
@flexjoe I couldn’t agree with you more. I take nothing for granted and understand my safety is up to me. I’m also retired military so I practice like I fight. Skills are perishable so no matter if you ride everyday or if you’re a weekend warrior, fundamentals are the building blocks of fun.
"Never saw me" = a SMIDSY in the UK and Aus.:
Sorry, Mate! I didn't see ya!
@@williambutler3630 Yup. It's the same story worldwide mate. Whether it's true or not. It's always the same BS. Take care mate.
I don't think we have an acronym here in the states. If we do, someone please correct me.
I rode Harleys for 30yrs. After I retired, and because of numerous arthritic issues, I bought a Suzuki 650 Burgman Executive. The CVT is perfect for me. Just twist and go, with plenty of power. Younger riders like to make fun, but don’t realize that my first bike was a 65 Electra Glide I purchased in 1975 at age 20. I was riding Hogs, when their Dads were only a twinkle in their grandads eye. I simply love to ride. Whatever bike I’m on.
That Burgman is downright quick and will beat a lot of Harleys to boot. I'm 46 but about 3 years ago, I had to scratch that scooter itch so I bought a Burgie 650. Fun to cruise down the interstate at 75mph and get some weird looks from passer bys when they realize you're on a scooter.
The Burgman is ace! If/when I stop riding cruisers I'll be getting myself a Burgman.
Had a customer who rode a 650 Bergman. He'd go on trips with his Christian bike club. On the highway he was never suffering from a lack of HP. He would keep up with the Goldwing riders
@@derek17005 Oh it crushes the highway! It’s quick, comfortable, nimble, and great on fuel. I dusted an 883 Sporty at a traffic light one day. Just hit the power button and I was gone! I love the Burgie. Good luck with yours, and happy trails!
The Burg is a very cool Scooter - never owned or rode but my neighbor had one (big fellow too) and said it just ripped along the interstates! Plus, that seat/trunk - brilliant!
Honda guy here. I, personally, don’t judge other riders unless they are absolutely reckless. But Harley riders seem to judge anyone who’s not on a Harley.
As someone that grew up in rural Oregon I can say Harley riders are like the redneck asshole that gets mad that someone else is hunting or fishing on public land. Or that if you don’t only want to drive a Ford truck or use a Stihl saw then it’s a personal attack on them. It’s simple ignorance, at this point generational family ignorance.
Not in our area.
Sadly a lot do. I ride a Harley, but I have other bikes. In fact I just bought a 2024 Honda XR 150L and love it
I wave to anyone on two wheels, including scooters.
Honda Gold Wing will be my next buy. i understand the 2025 will have some nice redesigns.
@@kevindecker9444 if I ever got a touring bike. Possibly be my route. I'm 5'1" tall, I need the reverse. My street Bob, after putting on a Mustang touring seat, I am on my toes, but it is light enough I can deal with it.
As a recent Senior citizen, I"ve been riding my '07 Deluxe for a while, and I am as cautious as they come and have yet to drop it. Yes, there are some astonishingly stubborn, poor Harley riders out there, posers who couldn't make a slow 25-ft wide U-Turn if their black leather chaps depended on it! Ego + image are powerful draws. And this "drink & ride" culture just vexes me!
That said, to me the MOST dangerous MC rider is the Sportie-- full of excessive CCs on a lightweight, nimble frame, with far too many inexperienced Noobs squidding down the road at ridiculous speeds. Much more common are their Long-on-talk, Short-on-skill tendencies.
My friend and I used to argue about this with his dad and brother all the time. His dad used to complain that sports bikes are too dangerous. We responded, that they handle better, turn better, brake better than larger bikes. Its rider attitude, not the bike that makes it dangerous.
They are more dangerous imo. And i race superbikez. Love em.
See a sports bike it begger to be reved to the moon. All the power is at the top. So it requires to be thrash and raced around to feel the piwer
Speed to a bike rider is like crack to a junkie, you can ever get enough. And we all know that at 150+ mph no brake in the world will stop you in a split second, skill may save you many times but the odds are against you.
Sport bikes handle better on a race track. On the street, no real advantage, the riding position makes it harder to see as far ahead or around you.
It's not what you ride, but that you ride ..... my first bike was an old triumph tiger ... My last a softail
@@chriswest2290Which means it’s controlled on the low end. The only time I feel the need to go fast is when there’s low end torque, or when it feels effortless to take up. I felt NO desire to ring out my 600 in neighborhoods, nor even in 50 mph zones, it’s terrifying
A good friend and coworker wanted a bike and had never ridden. He bought the Harley, had a friend drive it home into his garage, took the MSF to get his license and never left his neighborhood. He was scared to death to ride it. 3 years later he sold it with less than a few hundred miles.
That happens quite often. It is sad for the new rider but works out well for the rider looking for a lightly used Harley. :)
@@MCrider I chalk this up to mid life crisis thinking. Very similar to buying the "sports car" when they hit age 50. Its about ego and not a true interest in riding and understanding what riding is all about (which is the feeling of freedom for me).
@@spartanx169x Sometimes they are truly interested in becoming a motorcyclist. They just sabotaged their chances by buying the wrong bike to start with. And to MCRider's point, good bargains out there!
Seen a lot of second hand Harley's for sale in Australia and a lot of them have very low milage. Always makes me suspicious........did they drop it and it's been fixed up or did they realize it is too big and in some cases not the most comfortable bike to ride? As mentioned - it seems a lot of Harley purchases are fellas who've recently divorced, not so young any more and have some cash to burn and really haven't ridden much or not at all and are trying to buy in on an image and/or a dream.
HD dealers live for this type of customer. No warranty work and huge profit margin on bike sold. On the other hand HD dealers despise the guy, like a friend of mine, who puts on 15K miles per year and shows all the flaws. That friend went through 2 M8 engines(both seized) under warranty as oil pump had defect from factory. He had extended warranty and ran it out. That dealer didn't want to sell him a new bike as they knew he would ride the wee out of it
Been riding for 55+ years and you’re 100% correct. Any time a friend or family member decided to get a motorcycle I pushed for classes, a midsize motorcycle and part of the purchase price was full gear. Have a brother in law who decided he wanted a Harley and is one of those people who knows everything. I said NO get something small and the gear, did he listen of course not. First time out of his driveway, thankfully with a helmet but unfortunately with no leathers. He took out two parked cars and got road rash from his ankle to his shoulder on his right side. Two weeks in the hospital and six months of misery healing. Not the way to start. And what is it with all these cruiser riders and passengers that insist on short helmets, t shirts and shorts, makes me cringe. 😮😮
I love when know it alls get their comeuppance. I deal with those types constantly.
The attire makes me cringe for sure, but it is their skin... So if they want to take that risk, that is their choice. I'm even more aghast when I ride in a state where helmets aren't required... 🤦🤦👏
I actually recently bought a softail custom, been riding for about 5 years, had to go through 2 basic courses because i was stationed in california when i initially got my endorsement and then couldnt put it on my florida license so i recently took the msf course in florida and bought a bike after a few months. being in the Navy made me get used to wearing all the gear all the time because god forbid i got in a wreck or laid the bike down for what ever reason if i was missing so much as a glove the Navy was not going to pay for medical treatment for the accident, there was only 1 type of helmet we were allowed to wear too which was a full face helmet. i never got why most people on cruisers say a full face helmet on a cruiser makes you look stupid, i wear a full face helmet, gloves, and jacket with armor in the shoulders, back, elbows, and forearms. i feel like i look pretty smart wearing all the gear i have, of course needless to say i wear boots and jeans as well, my helmet has a transitional face shield which is nice to not change out between night and day. i have a beanie helmet which i rarely use but 9 out of 10 rides i have my full face helmet.
@@davidkellner7372 smart man 😀
@@johneverett3947 I'd rather look stupid to others than paint on the road if something happens. :)
Excellent briefing Sir, as usual!!!!!
I’m 63 next month and a 100% Disabled Veteran and Above Knee Amputee due to a car turning into me while on my Yamaha Road Star 1600 on June 18, 2005. I had ridden 17 years.
I stayed off the bikes for 5 years and then bought my 2011 HD ROAD KING CLASSIC and had a Pingel Shifter put on it. I still ride that bike today, some 58,500 miles later.
I believe every word you said!!!!!
HD is dying. Sales are dropping double digits year after year. Nobody is buying the Sportsters and the Harley faithful who buy the big heavy bikes are dying, retiring from riding or have bought their last bikes. They have nothing for new riders. A 23 year old probably can't afford $14000 for a party, but he/she can afford $7900 for a sporty, fun, dependable Yamaha MT-07 or equivalent.
I concur. I was an MSF coach for 12 years. We recommended new riders buy a used metric bike in the 500-750cc range and ride for a year. At the six month point, take the BRC II or Advanced class. After a year, the metric bike could be sold or traded for what you have in it. Harley's low-end torque is unforgiving and a challenge for a new rider. Harley does their own version of the MSF BRC on their Street 500's. Personally, after taking the MSF course in 1991, I rode a Sportster for a year, then traded up to an FXR. I rode it for 15 years then went to a Street Glide, and now an Ultra Limited. I take a course every year, the last with Tampa, FL PD, their weekend police MC course. I also practice breaking and swerving every time I go out. Skills are perishable.
That is the better way to learn....
My 750 would end most new riders. It does 93 in 1st gear.
This is very true, I started off on a 85 virago, road the crap out of it till the motor blew, then got a 14 street 750 from HD then traded for a 16 road king new which I ride to this day, got around 41k on the clock now and love it! The weight difference was a huge difference and takes a lot more to throw that thing around in the twisties. I love doing low speed maneuvers in the parking lot behind our office in the early mornings, a lot of fun doing super tight leans and scraping floor boards :P
@@gopherchucksgamingnstuff2263definitely not a Harley, heh
@@beepbop6697 Suzuki GSXR 750 L5
When I took the MSF class I took it at the local Harley dealership, we did it on the Street 500. After passing the course I wanted something the size of the Street 500 for many of the reasons you stated in this video. The only problem was that at the dealership they keep telling me I didn't want the 500 and kept pushing me to a larger cruiser that I didn’t want. Because of that I ended up on a Honda.
I have the street 750 and love it ❤! I get told it's not a true Harley, I 😅 laugh and say it's a good thing I purchased it because it was a steal with less than 2,000 miles 😅..
And honestly I think the dealers trying to push people into the way more expensive Harley’s has more to do with the poor sales of the street 500 and 750 then the bikes not being liked by the customers.
Same! My wife and i took the course at Harley, just wanted to buy a sportster to start with and she wanted the street 500. They laughed at us. We got my Sportstet and her Street from non harley dealers. A year into riding and just bought a new BMW GS 1250 Adventure. Still have the sportster though and still practice all the time on it to get better. Will never buy a Harley from a dealer.
I had the same experience , 2019, A Friend bought the street 750 put 20k miles on in one summer, no problems. I went to test ride one and likely buy. The salesman laughed at me and said only women and sissies buy the Street. I walked out and bought a Honda NC750 a few weeks later.
@@PeterAngles Bruh. I've had my first proper bike since April the year and have 6K on it without leaving my little valley. 100% 20 k is doable.
Never had a problem with Harley until I took my rider class threw them, told an instructor I rode a drz400 because I ride offroad often, he swore up and down I should be on a pan-america, a 540lb bike, he had no idea if I was a beginner and said that bike would be much better for my type of riding (drz400 weighs 320lbs), also all the Harley guys who have said the drz isn't a "real" bike, last I checked riding offroad takes more skill than most overweight, bar hopping Harley d-bags have
DRZ series....Best bike in the world baby
Who hurt you, was it a big fat Harley Rider? 😢😢😢
I’ve ridden most types of bikes and enjoyed them all. The ones I buy are based on my needs after I do research.
@@davidsmith4363 Big fat Harley riders can hardly walk up stairs much less hurt anyone, just pointing out the stupidity behind the brands mindset
That sucks your instructor(s) were like that. I took my MSF course at a Harley dealer and had fantastic instructors that didn’t have bias when someone mentioned something that wasn’t a Harley.
@@2vford241yeah,why is it that most Harley riders are big fat dudes?
I’m 72 but when I can’t ride safely I’ll quit. I been on bikes since 1968. I started on very small cc’s.
Great advice.
Thanks!
Wow! Thank you!
I rode my 883 sportster for 15 years. I’ve heard all kinds of remarks about it. When it came time to ride long distance most of my friends would bail out regardless of what they rode. I’ve rented large touring bikes and they were great on the highway, but 90 percent of my riding isn’t that. I love my intermediate bike, heritage Softail.
Ride what you want. Being in the wind is what counts.
Evo 883?
Yep, I started out on my '97 883 and rode it for 5 years. Bought a 2002 Dyna after that. Still have them both in the stable. I still like to get that little 883 out from time to time. It's just plain FUN.
@Kevin-ne3tl I'm thinking about one of these so I'm curious. 🙂
@@V8AmericanMuscleCar Curious about what? The 883 being an EVO? Yes, they were evo's up until 2022, I believe. They were in the 883 Irons and of course, mine is a '97, but yes, it's an evo. Somebody correct me if I am mistaken on the last year of the evo in Sportys, but I am pretty sure it was last year. Then, this year (2023), they went to the Revolution Max, whatever that is.
I sold Harley-Davidson motorcycles for 2 years. You are spot on. I have so many stories I could tell. The biggest problem I had was trying to convince certain customers after qualifying them to consider a smaller bike. Most would get offended. I will tell one example. I had a man come up to and said I want that bike right there. He pointed at a 2008 Ultra completely stock (Not lowered with stock seat). The problem was he was about 5'8" with a 30" inseam. I told him to go ahead and sit on it first. He got pissed and told me he didn't need to sit on the !@&$**@#> bike. Write the #&×÷[!% up!!!! I said ok. We did the paperwork and I rode it to our staging area. I was going to show him how to operate the radio etc and he looked at his girlfriend and said B!$"h, get on. I told that he should take it for a ride first before he put her on it. He told me to shut the F#&k up. He was on his tip toes when she got on. He rode about 5 feet and crashed. She went rolling off and scraped her arm but not bad. He then said, Honey, you might want to drive the car home. I called him out. I said One minute ago she was your B!@#$@. Now she's your Honey! We never saw him again.
Ugh, remove that dude from the gene pool. Probably drives drunk always and has arrests for domestic disorderly..
I feel sorry for the woman. He sounds like a statistic waiting to happen. Yikes
Dang, that guy was a real tool.
😂
He certainly chose the right brand of motorcycle for his wanker persona … 😅
I made this mistake, however not with a Harley but a big Kawasaki Voyager XII- my dream bike - when I got back into riding after a 30 year hiatus. Took the Total Control basic rider class, then three or four months later bought my big Voyager. I dropped that poor bike so many times. *Now*, almost 4 years and 50,000+ miles later, and with three or four Intermediate classes under my belt (I take at least one class a year), I can make old Gertrude do pretty much anything I want her to do, at any time, and go exactly where I want her to go. *Most of the time*. *Most* things I am really comfortable with. *Most* situations on the road I am very good at avoiding completely. I ask a lot of my old bike. I commute in Philadelphia traffic and stop-sign-every-block. I also spend a lot of time at turnpike speeds. I also spend time chasing a friend on his Concours 14 through the Pennsylvania mountain twisties. I am NOT, and never will be, a "perfect" rider. Anyway, my point is, I should have gotten a smaller bike and then after a year or so gotten the big Voyager.
48 years ago I got my 1st motorcycle. A 1973 Yamaha125 Enduro that always stayed in the dirt.. I then got a 1979 Husky 250 Dirt Bike and then was racing a 1985 Honda CR 250 Dirt Bike .. My 1st streetbike was a 1991 Harley Softail Custom. I felt the difference, obviously, but had attained the skills to adapt quickly. 9 Harleys later and still loving it. Hope to be riding many more years. Glad to hear your still enjoying 2 wheels.. Happy Labor Day to all !!
49 years ago I got my first motorcycle, a 1972 Yamaha enduro with electric start. I then bought a 1974 CR 125 Honda Elsinore, my favorite bike. Then bought a RZ 350 Yamaha. No bikes now, south Florida too crazy
A few years ago I rode a Honda 1100, 350 miles to a popular Mountain destination, just to get away for a few days. I didn't know that there was a Harley get together that week. I met some Harley riders with their white shirts and vest and they looked at me with their noses in the air like I was lower than dog sheeit. Then I met another group of diehard Harley riders that had grease under their fingernails and smelled like oil and gasoline and I couldn't have asked for a friendlier bunch of riders!! Just because you ride a Harley doesn't make you better than anyone else and most of the REAL Harley riders never act like that way.
I can't deny this. I have a Harley and I was a brand new rider. I took my time BIG time. Mine is a 2005 soft tail that I got for a great price, and I'm a big guy, but I was very cognizant of the fact I was NEW and had to go very slowly. I have been riding three years now, and I still am very aware of the size and weight of the bike. Sir, you are so correct.
Just got my first bike 2 days ago, 09 dyna low rider. Bit off more than I could chew if I can be honest. I'm taking my time, riding in my gated community. Glad I'm 6 foot 280 pounds, and can handle it.
@@coryharder191it’s nice seeing so many people just being honest. I’m not a beginner but it’s been a minute since I rode and was a crotch rocket kinda guy, dirt bikes, quads which off road doesn’t count. Been flipping bikes with my son for quite a while bought many nice Harley’s and eventually ended up acquiring a 2007 Ultima Hardtail from a brother from another mother who had it sitting since 2014 and gave it to me.
I know choppers are in another bracket but this is an entirely different learning experience. It’s a sentimental thing also so I’m keeping it and later giving to my son. He doesn’t understand why I’m not riding it but short distances off busy roadways and messing around in empty parking lots. Making jokes that I’m scared.
I told him being smart is not being scared, it’s also being safe and not putting others and myself in danger. Having buddies who ride Harleys, one missing a leg from an accident does tend to bring up a little fear! 🤣
Kevin, you are 100% right. You hit all the points. I was lucky enough to attend a 2 week motor school 30 yrs ago, and I was properly trained in low speed motorcycle handling. I love the physical presentation of my Street Glide, but many Harley riders need with their riding skills. I hope your video inspires someone out there to improve and become a safer rider.
A Harley CEO once stated "Harley doesn't just sell motorcycles, they sell a lifestyle.". And their membership usually conforms to the group. I know of an independent mechanic that avoids Harleys, he says Harley owners have a mindset he doesn't want to deal with. Godspeed to everyone.
And that's the problem, selling a lifestyle for something with a good chance of injuring or killing you if you are not skilled. They stress that more than riding competency.
@@kman-mi7su Manufacturers only concern is profit. Victory stopped putting the name on motorcycles because the "estimated profit margin was below expectations". I loved my Victory but now own Kawasaki. Same in medical - sell drugs instead of advice on lifestyle changes. Sad. My ex wife failed the beginner course twice but she insisted on owning a Fatboy. Notice I said ,"ex".
@@larryzaborowski6441 Yeah, I'm well aware of that. Profit is all HD cares about like other companies. But in their case, if you care about riding skills about the same, you get more return riders to buy their product and more profit. I've seen people who have bought their bikes and other manufacturers' big bikes not knowing how to ride. They park the bike or sell it. In fact, I just picked up another large bike about three weeks ago in the showroom new condition because of that. A 2000 Yamaha Royal Star Venture with 8,000 miles on it. The rider couldn't handle it and parked it in his garage for years but finally decided to sell it. Luckily it was kept indoors and started 2-3 times a month and idled to operating temp. He said most of the miles was his son riding the bike on summer road trips over the years and then back in the garage it went. It is a 900lb bike and it scared him. I now have three bikes and this one runs great so it's going to be my long-distance road trip bike.
Riding a Harley means you are a badass that isn't to be messed with.
Harley does build bikes with high levels of fit and finish, but the CEO knows his target audience/customer better than anyone. Harley knows this well. When you consider antiquated technology that an air-cooled, push rod, 45 degree included angle engine represents, accompanied with a pathetic 70 hp for +1300cc, purposefully neutered at the factory, then you understand that what "the motor company" does best is marketing above all else. Not only is the product sold at a premium price (for now and slowly changing), but so is all the required brand-matched riding gear, and the "performance mods" from the Screamin' Eagle catalog that all adds to bottom line for them selling you a "lifestyle". Those mods are needed to get a reasonable performance for the displacement. They will gladly sell you an air cleaner and performance pipes "for off road use only" for $3000 and another $1000 to put it on to get the bike to perform (as it should have from the factory). The problem "the motor company" has, is their target market is aging and dwindling, and they are not generating desirable products at an affordable price to get new riders into the fold. A significant swath of the current generation is less apt to want cars, let alone expensive motorcycles seen by most as a luxury item.
I disagree because the worst riders are not brand specific, I see them on every brand. While they cross the spectrum of brands they do share mindsets- too much bike, too few skills, too few hours in the saddle, and mainly too much arrogance about their ability that compound the previous factors into an accident that will happen. Keep your arrogance in the garage and seek to learn.
I have ridden since ‘79 and witnessed idiots on every brand. Anyone can buy a Harley or Hayabusa - neither is a wise choice for learning. Too many car drivers that “don’t see and/ or respect bikes” any rider that chooses to enter that deficit realm on a bike they can’t handle is foolishly adding risk - whatever brand you like.
I'm 64, former pro racer, you are absolutely correct. I usually show newer riders the police motorcycle course competitions and tell them if they can't ride their bikes like that, they shouldn't be riding on the street.
Your advice is excellent!
I started on a 500 cc scooter, went to a 750, then an Ultra Glide. I recommend the progression approach plus the MSF materials. 😊
It's hard to learn anything when you are scared. Scared to try anything for fear of tipping over in the parking lot, scared of what unleashing the monster beneath you by accident might do. Consolidating your skills will make the transition much easier.
True and the bikes are a fortune !
Scared? Get a bus pass....
Truth!
If you have any fear-----Stay off the motorcycles!!!!!
@@craigpennington1251 fear is good if controlled.
Great video. I am one who took the class at a Harley Davidson dealership just a one month and a half ago and I passed with an average score. I went back 3 weeks later and yes I bought a Heritage. For me, I realized I am not road ready but I have not pushed things. For the last 2 weeks I have practiced going different directions in the neighborhood and I have an empty lot 2 miles away. I bought a set of 24 cones on Amazon and I work on one thing for the week so that I can get used to what I bought and become a better rider. It will take longer but I am fine with that. Great topic and video!
I started riding as a kid on a 50cc dirt bike and have owned many bikes in my 60 years. I traded in my street Glide for a smaller Heritage Classic this year. Just not doing those really long rides extended rides anymore. But yeah. Didn’t start on a big bike and I’m still learning and practicing after all these years. Great channel.
Never owned a Harley but I did take my rider course and test at a Harley dealership. The training itself was top notch, but who knows how many Harley riders have actually taken any kind of course.
Very good summary and well presented too. Great points that I absolutely agree with.Thank you. When I learned to ride back around 1970 a 350 was a big bike and a 500 or 750 was huge. I learned, fell, raced, wrenched and crashed on small bikes 125-350cc for many years (some before I could get a license) before I could afford or even considered a larger motorcycle. It seemed like a natural progression and I beleive it was ultimately the safest. I'm actually returning to smaller vintage bikes now. It seems that a lot of folks don't even consider smaller bikes but they can easily be as much fun or more so if ridden in the proper environment. Ride safe...have fun.
I too remember in the early to mid-1970's when a 350 was a good size bike. My parents are both small-ish people. My dad weighed about 160 and my mom was only 4'11" and weighed about 100 pounds with full gear on. They would go from St. Paul, MN to Canada every year with their friends on their Suzuki 350. Crazy to think about now. My dad was super excited when he graduated to a 750 Suzuki "water buffalo". Anyway, I started at seven years old on a 1940's Cushman Eagle. When that burned up in a barn fire, we got a 100cc Suzuki "Gopher"; I was 12 years old. That was fun!! at 15 years old I would actually sneak out at night and pick up my girlfriend who worked late at a movie theater and ride her home.
Well said! I currently ride an Ultra Classic, and I also pursue training and advanced riding courses because I want to master that motorcycle. I'm actually attending a motorcycle rodeo prep course starting next month because I want to compete in a rodeo. One of the most important things I've learned along my journey is that I am the only one who is or can be responsible for my safety while on two wheels. Control what I can control and be prepared for what I cannot control. That mindset is not universal among riders, so we have people who end up in overly risky situations that could have been avoided. Additionally, and I don't say this lightly, Harley Davidson is not in the business of cultivating safe, responsible riders...they are in the business of selling motorcycles.
I’ve got a quick story about bad motorcycle riders. I had ridden both dirt and street for decades, and was thinking about demoing some bikes. Found out you’d had to have an M designation on your license. So I got on my Honda trail 90 and headed up to the high school where cops had cones set up and a stopwatch to run people through their course. Guys on Harleys and new super bikes, we’re falling and dropping their bikes all over the place. I went through there on that trail 90 without dabbing a foot. I had guys offering me 50 bucks to let them ride my 90 through the course. I had things to do and couldn’t hang around, but it was amazing to me that most of the people there didn’t know how to ride. I’m not kidding. Most of them did not know how to ride.! 😂
How could you have "ridden both dirt and street for decades" without knowing about motorcycle licenses haha What part of the world are you from
@@lainsandstrom i’ll explain it to you kiddo. The motorcycle dealerships need to see an M designation on your drivers license to allow you to demo bikes. That came about in my state long after I was buying and riding both street and dirt. Now go away boy, you bother me.
Hey sweetheart, do you think 19 yr old females are kids, too?
@@kevinnorris6157 Yes I do.
That's an awesome bike the 90 trail but doing 95mph through the desert on that lol. You really couldn't believe that a motorcycle school had inexperienced riders?
I went from riding a dirtbike to a sporster and I was in for a treat I cant imagine new riders going and jumping on a bagger.
Spent a good ten years on my sporty. I finally broke down and bought me bagger. An R18b. I really miss my sportster.
Great video Kevin, As usual ,You are spot on. I have been riding motorcycles since is was 8 years olds, I am now 66 and ride a 2018 Honda Goldwing DCT and a 2008 Harley Night Rod. I see new riders going straight from the MSF class and jump right on a brand new Road Glide or Street Glide. They will spend hundreds of dollars on accessories and parts for their bike and will not even think about training or even practicing. You see some of these same people at bike night events duck walking their bikes through the parking lot struggling to keep the bike upright , then watch in horror as that $35,000 motorcycle hits the asphalt when they try to turn into a parking spot and hit the front brake with the bars turned as low speed. The best investment any new rider can make is in training and making time to practice. It make riding not only safer for the rider, it also make the experience much more enjoyable.
Spot on, again. There are 3 big Harley’s sitting in 3 different garages all within 500ft of my house. None of them are ever out. All those guys have the exact same story. Had to have a bike of their dreams, couldn’t handle them and now they are collecting dust. I’m sure that story isn’t exclusive to Harley’s, but it sure seems to be the go to brand. My father was rather offended that I bought a Suzuki.
Kevin, you are one of the few authorities who has the chops to make the title statement... and back it up with common-sense observations. I'm a proud Harley owner and have seen much of what you have - a wide skills disparity from one rider to another. Age (or testosterone) also comes into play - both young and old - but that may be a topic for a future video.
Yesterday, just few miles from here...2 people dead...came to wide out of a curve on a big HD hit car head on!...weekend warriors in tank tops and shorts...its a crying shame. I am doing this bike thing for 50+ years...and I bet ya a dollar I can still learn something from a good teacher...there are so many things to pay attention to, so many tricks and physical rules to obey....go take a class and right after a advanced class...and as said here...start with a smaller bike!! Stay alive!!!
I'm a 20 year Harley rider, and these are some of the most true statements I've ever heard. I generally myself meet 1-2 new riders every year and see the allure people have, and tell them be careful, start on a smaller bike, 750-900, and learn to ride before trying desperately to kill yourself on something larger than you can handle or have experience at, it doesn't come overnight. Even myself at this stage have backed down from the touring street glide I had to a heritage, I'm older now and need a little less weight to handle, the ride is still there, and without the beast to move around. good video.
Why most 900s are much faster then a harley, much more quiet and fell like your doing 100 at 50.
@@davesmith2150
I think the reference was to a 750 - 900 HD
Which would be like a MT-03 or maybe more comparable to a Kawasaki Vulcan S in power to weight ratios
@@raymondcarter4335 does harley-davidson make them that small? I know the sportster is 1250cc being light in a drag race should be similar to a glide. Demo day would probably be best to see what bike you should get ....a day on some smaller bikes would be all you need if that...buying a small bike seems like a major pain and your buying a bike that you don't want. I am wrong though some people just couldn't buy and ride a large bike my wife being one she's 100lbs Asian and has a hard time driving a car. So it depends on the person. I went straight to a HD fat boy it's harder to ride mine because the fat heavy tires, at speed with the heavy rims makes the bike hard to turn so one has to counter steer, that took one long twisty road to beat that in to my brain. I was unaware of that. It also depends on where you live in America, AZ. It's about nice smooth freeways here it Thailand the roads are to hammered for a HD so a ducati hypermotard works best for me I see alot of adventure bikes here. I'm rambling.....be safe our there
Thats cute. Started with a 114 street bob at 18 years old and never struggled now a year later i have a road king special
I know a few Harley riders that just like to ride in a straight line and hate curved roads. I actually think riding a sport bikes gives you skills that you can’t learn on any other bike. I’ve had sport bikes and Harleys and now a Goldwing and I still see people on Harleys not trying to improve their skills.
@@PeterAnglesplease tell us where the Harley hurt you😂
I am an Australia woman and my first motorbike, bought 3 years ago, was that exact Street 500 model in Performance Orange. I rode it for 2 years, over 40,000 km then upgraded to a Sport Glide. In Australia, we have a strict system where beginner riders can only ride up to a certain power/weight ratio bike (our LAMS system ). The Street 500 filled a niche as it was a LAMS approved Harley and lots of people bought them so they could have a legal beginners Harley. However, a year ago, HD stopped importing them into Australia, though I don't know why. Any country that doesn't have a LAMS-type system won't have much market for a 500 Harley. Also, I've NEVER seen a Harley-Davidson rider in Australia ride any way other than highly competently. Our learner system of compulsory riding of a LAMS bikes for 2 years dramatically improves our beginner rider skills and gives us a very high safety record over many other countries.
Hey i just got my Ls and got a 250 Virago i see it as a journey and there is no rush.
Same in Europe. New riders can not start out with those heavy bikes.
I ride a Triumph Rocket III Roadster . It's been my bike since ' 16 . I'm 61 now and still have a heartbeat for the bike. I've had some instances where I have had idiots and animals intervene with my riding and I was just lucky to get ahead of chaos with them. Your videos have already made me more aware of potential problems with the growing class of idiots on the road these days. I think everyone should take a look at what you offer. Keep up the work you do. I certainly appreciate it !!
I am a rider coach, and you are correct so many go out before the rider class and buy that big Harley, when you counsel them out for not being able to handle a smaller 250. I had one student chew me out saying it was my fault he was not able to handle the 250 and what were they going to do with the new road king they just bought. I ride a Harley Electra Glide but I practice every weekend when I train students. I highly recommend to start with a smaller bike and practice.
I can't even tell you how many exclusively Harley riders have told me to NEVER touch the front brake except in the case of dire emergency, in which case you just squeeze as hard as you can and hope, and that counterleaning your body is the way you can take a sweeping corner the fastest...
Great video! As a long-time biker, avid Harley fan and owner, I've seen this mistake time and time again. I'm a current owner of 2 Harley Davidson Sportsers. I love these bikes, but as with any motorcycle, they're not for everybody. Let me just say this... I can't necessarily speak to the newest models Harley Davidson has, but I absolutely never recommend Harley's Sportster as a good beginner bike. It's a great bike to grow into once you have some confidence and skills, but it is no way a good idea for just beginning low skill riders. For one, we all know that Harley Davidson gets made fun of for being big, heavy, and slow. But just because these bikes are not super fast at high speed, they have a lot of torque.... more than enough to get you in trouble if you don't know how to handle it. These bikes can get away from you really quick if you don't know how to control it. They are also extremely heavy, and top heavy at that. Sportsers actually handle really good when you know what you're doing and have some confidence in your abilities, but at low speed, it's not gonna handle good at all. The Sportster is a great bike... one of my favorite models Harley Davidson ever made. But just as it was stated in the video, Harley doesn't make a good beginner bike. Great video Kevin!
Well said!
Agreed, Sportys are not beginners bikes. If you know how to use them they will handle well and can use the torque to make em scoot
@@danwilliams5867 exactly
I saw one of these riders just yesterday; tried to do a u-turn with two wide lanes and a couple of yards of run-off to turn into and he sort of kept leaning his Harley (no idea which kind it was) on his inner, left foot which looked very uncomfortable, not to mention dangerous and supremely unstylish and wobbly. He did (just) manage to turn the thing around without braking an ankle, and quickly settled into the straightaway looking super-cool with his bare arms straight to the ape-hangers and the nice open pipe exhaust sound.
In Australia you are limited to a max 650cc bike for two years, before being able to take an open cc licence test, so Street 500's were quite popular here until discontinued.
Well good thing I live in the usa!
I started with a V Star 250. Had that for a couple of years. Had a ball on it.
Moved up to a 2018 Harley Street 750. The Harley dealers did these bikes a great disservice. They’re fun and very forgiving. But, because they were designed for a foreign market, they were never pushed as an entry level bike in this country. I caught a lot of flack when I was riding. Told a lot of bike night bandits to piss off.
Moved up to a 2014 Fat Bob. Loved that bike and gained a lot of love and respect for the entire Dyna lineup.
Am now riding a 2014 Ultra Limited. Love it.
Kevin is exactly right though. A lot of people spend well beyond their skill level. And I see it a lot of times out on the twisties where I like to ride. Take the course. Start small and work up to that dream bike
A friend of mine did exactly that.
New rider 45 years old.
1st bike buy a night train.
Tried to get him to change his mind.
Didn't work.
He sent me a pic of him riding and he was scared to death you could see it
Well so far so good
Shakie
Remember that there is only 2 types of motorcycle riders. Those who have fallen and those who will
I rode a 200cc for a year, a 250cc for 2 years, this year I'm on a 1200cc. I feel comfortable on my Sporty because I started on smaller bikes.
Got back into riding 4 yrs ago after a 30 year break and did exactly what you are describing. At least started on a sporty before upgrading but definitely in over my head. Your videos have really helped me dig out of that hole. Thanks for all your great work!!
In 40 years of riding, I've always found Harley riders to be the most arrogant, aloof and self-superior bikers of all. Now, some friends of mine have Harleys, and are some of the loveliest people I've ever known. But I'm talking about the vast majority of Harley riders I see out on the road. They very rarely give you a nod or a wave, and just ignore you when you do so. I'll nod to anyone on a bike, even if it's a moped, regardless of if I'm on a 1200, a thou, or any other bike I have at the time. But the attitude of the majority of Harley riders I see, just stinks. When you give the usual nod, they just totally blank you, as if they didn't even see you! Nowadays, I don't even bother acknowledging them, even though (because I'm a nice guy) it bothers me to do so. I just don't understand what it is with these ignorant and anti-social arseholes.
Thank you sir for this video and the many others who truly call it the right way. I just started riding just under 3 years ago. My 800cc boulevard was my 1st bike. I couldn’t be more proud of Sue. I’ve learn to really max out the 800 and know what I can do with that level of bike. I’m picking up a sportster 1200 tomorrow. Going to learn to max out this level before I go any higher. I’m giving myself the same amount of time before I was ready for the next level. 1500cc + I absolutely love being on 2 wheels. It’s a freedom that’s hard to explain. Be safe everyone!
I’m a senior citizen and was in my 8th year of riding when I decided that I’ve had enough of being cut off in traffic and intersections, forced onto the shoulder of hi-way due to drivers changing into my lane and not seeing me…just for starters. I weighed the consequences of my loving to ride with bodily damages should I ever have an accident…I selected safety first and sadly sold my bike. Hopefully one day a will ride again with the wind in my face…in a top down 4 wheels under me…convertible!
I put Clearwater Darla lights on my bike with the yellow lenses.
Ever since I’ve not had one driver pull out in front of me or cut me off.
These lights will enable you to ride again and not be in fear.
Of coarse you still should avoid traffic congestion as much as possible.
Congrats for being gay
@@rollyourownRandF aww, you triggered?
@@dilligafmofoker hell yes
Great segment! After a hiatus of over 30 years and more recently dealing with cancer, I decided to ride again. Took the MSF basic course sponsored by the local Harley Davidson dealership and they used the Street 500. Hated the bike, passed the course and purchased a lightly used Honda Shadow 600 to rebuild my skill set. In appreciation to the Harley dealership, I bought my gloves and LS 2 Heritage helmet from them. They are super nice and when I decide to move to a larger bike, I will certainly go back to see them.
I taught myself on a 650cc single cylinder Suzuki Savage over the course of a few months, staying in my neighborhood first, getting used to controlling by muscle memory, low speed turns, u turns. Then I began heading out around the main block of my area at 0430 when there wasn't a soul on the road. I gradually increased my distance as I got more and more comfortable on the little bike. Watched videos, practiced tips, and by about 3 months on I went and bought what I wanted, a used 05 Dyna Wide Glide. It was a lot more bike than the 650 Suzuki, but I did the same thing. Played cool and spent a lot of time getting used to curves and low speed stuff and comfort and relaxation at higher speed roads. I dropped it due to a panic braking event that wasn't even needed, I just got scared and mashed the front brake at 55, locked it up and dropped immediately, shattering my collarbone resulting in surgery with a plate and 11 screws. I was back on the bike before the doc even told me I was allowed to lift anything. That was a very hard learned lesson about emergency braking without ABS and how/when to properly split front/rear brake application. I still throw u turns and stuff on my small neighborhood streets and hit parking lots between two parking spaces to keep the low speed skills up, stay upright and counter lean, take heavier curves with a bit more speed and practice controlling lean angle with throttle, occasionally drag pegs. Knowing your limits and intentionally pushing yourself in safe ways to become a better rider is very important even apart from taking courses, which is the best way to get better.
This is one of the few honest and true pieces of content on TH-cam. Well Said.
Another factor is simply the math, HD is the majority brand on the road in the US and therefore will have the same rate but higher amount of untrained and unpracticed riders on the road.
I never straddled a harley davidson until after I had raced amateur motocross for 6 years on a 125 and the 250cc 2 stroke bikes. In 2008, I made a deal to purchase via dealer assist, a 1994 fxstc on the last day of February. I then proceeded to take the wrong exit and then the scenic route in 28 degree temperature on the way home that night. Had to stop at 1 a.m. to get a hotel room and didnt stop shivering for at least an hour. Finished the ride the next day home to get my endorsement and insurance taken care of. Looking back, it was a blast and a whole lot of fun. Havent looked back since. Went from that softail to an flhx in 2016 and after a month of having that, went one a 4 day trip through northern new mexico and back solo. Good times.
I wish more people would think before they purchase, though. Dont ride above your experience level, and for God's sake, watch out for the 4 wheelers. They have gotten extremely worse in the last few years.
At the end of my first MSF course the instructor said "congratulations, you are all now PLRs... parking lot riders; and that is where 5 of you need to stay". The thing that bothered me the most is that those 5 "passed" without the skill needed to stay safe on the road with others. The instructor put the onus on them to improve to a point where they're now "safe".
Rider coaches are in a tough spot...they see that many riders a deficient but they pass the standard set forth by the MSF. The problem should not be solved by the rider coach who evaluates to the standard, if something needs to be fixed it is the standard.
Wow parking lot students is correct 😂 never look at it like that
I may have been one of those in my opinion, i did tear up parking lots practicing, ive done the msf course and advanced so im good now, but always need to improve. But if the instructor said this is not for you i would have accepted that and be happy for the time spent. But i glad he didn't say that.
@@TheMarmaduke1975 if you have not got a motorcycle yet get something small ok .. after my msf I got my self a 600 let me tell you should of gotten a small motorcycle to learn on first then up grade .. 600 is big and powerful bike I thought of not upgrading that’s why .. .. In my opinion also Learn to ride on the street first then once you get use to the bike then practice slow speed .. slow speed are harder to learn .. that way you don’t drop it .. I did the slow first and regret it I drop it on a U turn practicing .. .. happy riding good luck
@@MCrider I agree and didn't intend my comment to blame the instructor. I guess it would've been better to say the system since the instructor needs to conform to the standards set forth before them. James R. Davis talks about how much the MSF course has changed over the years. I started in 2008 and thought he was a bit tough. Now I see more what he was saying. On the other hand I would hate to have to follow a system like the U.K. and other countries use as it restricts those who can advance faster. However, the U.S. driver education system doesn't prepare drivers of any vehicle to handle situations they are going to come across. It seems to work but definitely has room for improvement.
Good video , so true . I own 4 Harleys , I am a Retired Motor Cop from a major City in Texas . Our training was incredibly difficult which kept me alive. People want a short cut to mastering a large motorcycle , there A"int one ! Get as much traing as you can and never stop learning. You have a great channel and have my respect for trying to help people .
I'm still on the job with 27 years down. I no longer ride full-time at work as I'm in another assignment. "Get as much training as you can and never stop learning", you are 1000% correct. PRACTICE is key as this skill diminishes if you don't.
Thanks for the kind words and your service to community!
Retired M/C LEOs are typically some of the most skilled riders there are next to professional road racers. It helps to ride all day, every day.
I'm glad I stuck around for the whole lesson. Yes I've had 3 Ultras and in my opinion are my second favorite. My favorite was my Ultra Tour Glide because of its fixed fairing. My Electra Glide friends made fun of me because I had the ugly one but I didn't care. I started with a KH500, XS400, XV1000 and many other Japanese bikes, I had a basket case R65 BMW and it was fun and got me back into motorcycles. Those big Harleys were great for me thanks to training and many years in smaller and more practical bikes. Know your bikes and thank you for never blaming the bikes but rather, the rider's misperceptions of their abilities. I feel badly for those riders because they really aren't enjoying the joys of motorcycling. BTW, my current ride is a Buell XB9S, what a fun ride!
I started riding when I was seven...first mini bikes, then graduated to dirt bikes, raced motocross on the weekends for a few years, then on to street bikes. Coming up on 50 years of riding now, have always owned at least one bike every day since I started. I'm so thankful I started young and learned the basics in the dirt. Those skills have saved my rear in many a situation over the years. And I have preached your message for decades now...do not start out on a two-wheeled land barge. I've seen so many people in over their heads on H-D's. Some have died...usually overestimating their skills in a tight turn, or not knowing how to emergency-break. Alcohol and not wearing helmets didn't help. Personally, I got bored riding H-D's a few years ago...switched to a Ducati Multistrada. Eventually, it got to where I was barely putting 1,000 miles a year on my bikes. Now I'm averaging around 5,000 miles a year.
Starting on dirt bikes is how all bikers should begin …
I did the same thing. I traded my last Harley, out of many, a Dyna Wide Glide for a BMW R1200GS. I went from barely Riding the Harley, to almost Constantly Riding the GS. I also like the fact I can Ride the Trails again.
Ha! Same here...if I see an interesting trail or dirt road, just throw it into Enduro Mode and away I go@@joeybobbie1
What I have witnessed is successful completion of the basic rider course, purchase of the big Harley Davidson, take about a dozen short rides on it and suffer through some nervous moments and live to tell the tale, and then basically never ride it again. The act of riding a big motorcycle for an inexperienced person is such an exhausting experience, they end up being less and less likely to actually take a ride. Start on a little Honda and you’ll ride tens of thousands of miles across this country when it’s all said and done.
I've been riding big sport bikes since early 80's and still ride a ZX14R. I taught Motorcycle safety in the Marines and was one of the guys you had to meet to get your on base sticker. My confidence is very high on the lighter sport bikes. I purchased a 2021 street glide special and already have 15K miles on it. Even with my experience level I'm still building confidence on this heavy tank and the weight catches me off guard regularly. When alone you need to continuously pick little spots in the road ahead of you and practice both stopping before them and swerving around them. Another great thing to do is learn to convert MPH to feet per second so you have a really good idea of how many feet it will take you to stop at speed. IT WILL EXTEND YOUR FOLLOWING DISTANCE "hopefully" and make you aware of how quickly you can get behind in your reaction times of about 1 sec before you can even touch the breaks. Decades of riding slow and fast and still aware these machines can take my life at any moment. At 70MPH you will travel 102' before touching the break handle if your quick! You all stay safe and enjoy the sport!
Wow, thanks for this tip. I'll start thinking more about FPS
60 mph is 88 fps. The real conversion you need to know is that the braking distance is not a linear function. Rather it is exponential. The time from applying the brakes to come to a controlled stop is way less than half the distance required to stop from 60 mph. You might, for example to be able to stop from 30 mph in 20' and take well over 100' to stop from 60. Riders need to practice controlled emergency braking. How you do it also depends on the motorcycle you ride. For a large Harley with both large weight and wheelbase, using both hard front brake and more limited rear brake is appropriate. +90% of the braking capability will come from the front brake and tire. There are many Harley riders who only brake using their rear brakes. In that scenario, they will never learn to come to a controlled stop in the shortest distance possible because not only are they not skilled in doing so, their technique is wrong because they don't understand the vehicle dynamics and physics involved in performing braking maneuvers optimally. If you are on a smaller bike or even sportbike, braking that way will not provide the optimal braking. The optimal braking will come from application of the front brake only in ideal dry conditions because if performed at the absolute limit of traction on the front tire, the rear tire will not be touching/on the ground! Under less ideal conditions like wet grass, braking only with the rear brake will likely be the optimal.
It is hard to explain to new sport bike riders, that hard braking from 140mph down to 70mph traffic speed is so much harder compared to 70mph to 0mph. So much more energy in a bike a 140mph versus 70mph. I learned riding on my 750 Ninja. My second bike is my ZX-11 I bought new and still have. My skills will never be as good as the guys who grew up riding small dirt bikes. Watched a dirt bike rider on his new CBR900RR, parked under a pavilion, ride it tight around the benches, down the hill of grass, then bunny hop it off the curb onto the street perfectly. Us street riders had carefully pushed our sport bikes around the benches and down the sidewalk. We were stunned by his riding. It was his first street bike.
@@TheZX11 The first "and only" time I took the 14 to 206MPH I new I would have to let off throttle slowly. I barely let off and the bike bled off speed like I had jammed the brakes on and I never touched them. I was in shock how much energy was involved in keeping the bike at that speed and you only see it when you remove the HP.
"break" handle?
I had a wreck last October. Classic car turned left in front of me. I trained for this very thing a lot yet, I still panicked when I was braking when that car pulled in front of me. Rear tire locked up at least 3 times. I know I saw her first blink on her turn signal. I know because I always watch for that in small towns when the speed zones change and other traffic. My point is, panic sets in. Training definitely helps. I would not be here today writing this if I hadn’t trained and practiced emergency braking. Braking and swerving etc. I lacked 5 feet of missing the car. Had I not trained I would simply hit the car T bone and took the damage in my chest instead of my right knee, elbow and shoulder. It certainly would have killed me. Ride safe all. Kevin speaks truth. You might not avoid the accident totally but, at least enough to save your life.
I am glad you got "some" braking training and were not more seriously injured, but your statement that you locked up the rear three times leaves a lot of unanswered questions, like were you clamping hard on the FRONT brake when this happened? What bike were you on? It sounds like you need more training on proper braking technique still and with much additional training, you should greatly reduce panic. Panic is your enemy that causes you to do actions not consistent with self preservation, like target fixation. Reducing that (target fixation) is a learned behavior that has to be ingrained over your survival instinctual responses (that make you fixate).
@@LisaMedeiros-tr2lz I was trying to keep things short. Yes, I had a handful of front brake during this wreck. Fronts did not lock. It’s hard to remember a lot of details on this but, believe me I am very conscious about practicing these techniques. I think once the rear brakes started to lock I may have been on and off the front brake but honestly I can’t remember. It’s really easy to talk about accidents like these or the rider involved in a Monday morning quarterback style. What my point was is that this training can save your life. I never said it would keep you from completely coming out of a emergency situation unscathed. You are going to panic. That is in fact 100% true. I had no way to go back to the scene and measure skid marks or do anything as far as investigating the wreck goes. I was too busy talking to a trauma surgeon about what surgery he was going to do next. Ride safe
My first bike was (and still is) a Road King Classic. I did exactly as you recommend against. Anyway, almost 50K miles later I think I’ve got the hang of it. But if someone asked me how to learn to ride, I’d tell them to watch your vid. Ride safe everyone.
My first motorcycle was a new 2001 Harley-Davidson Electra Glide Standard and put over a hundred thousand miles on it in 6 years. I didn't attend a rider's skills course until after I had rode the bike every day everywhere for 6 months. I attended the MSF advance rider's course. It wasn't until very that I completed the Basic rider's skills course with my 14 yr old son.
I appreciate all of the helpful content on this YT channel.
I completely understand if someone would disagree with the idea starting off with a small beginner bike instead of buying what you really want and learning on it.
if U have to learn to ride, give it up pal stick with cars
I think you have a point, kinda. I ride Harleys because they're American made. They are the American motorcycle company. I've riden others, but was never satisfied with the ride. I ride like my life depends on it. Every time I'm out there I practice. Every time I'm out there, I watch other drivers like a hawk.
Been on Harleys since 1981. Started on a Honda Trail 70 in 1973. then bought a Honda CB350, then bought a 1981 LTD Kawasaki 1000 off the show room floor. Fun and Fast bike. Three speeding tickets later I bought my first Harley Davidson Wide glide used from the dealer in Massilion, Ohio. This was to slow me down. Sold the LTD to my brother. Brought the Wide Glide to California in 1984 when I was in the Navy, but sold the it years later after buying a 1992 Fatboy. Sailors with motorcycles had to complete MSF classes. The Fatboy was Orange and Cream and aftermarket fuel injected, but got stolen. Current Harley is a 1999 Fatboy that is identical to the Terminator 2 bike. I've since picked up a 1997 Vmax 1200, a 2012 VMAX 1700 and finally a 2005 GL1800 Goldwing. Been through half a dozen MSF safety classes due to working on a military base. Lots of biker events in the mountains back in the 80s and 90s here in SoCal and plenty of biker babes were available back then. The Rock Store, Neptune's Net, Deer Lodge, Malibu Pier, The Wheel in Ojai, Pine Mountain Inn, Big Bear, The Half Way Station, Camp Scheideck, Highway 33 through Rose Valley... Now with owning four bikes there is less maintenance, but hate paying the registration fees for all 4...
As a motorcycle police officer, I see all brands of large cc motors (and smaller cc) crash due to lack of formal training. MSF is a starting point or an avenue to get your endorsement. When you increase the size of motors, increase your level of training. The advanced traing classes start from about $500.00 up to $1500.00.
You just spent $25 k and up for any top cruiser, spend a couple grand on training. Isn't your safety or life worth that?
No? Its not important. This is America i can ride what i choose at my own risk. If advanced classes are about the same price that seems logical to me. It should be paid through tax payer money anyways like my classes where. They take enough of our money they can spare.
@@seewead101 Yet another whinny boy who want the taxpayer to pay for his right to take chances...Noyikg like wanting it both waus all of the time!
@@seewead101state police offer basic, intermediate, and advanced courses for $25-$100. I paid $3,500 for my daily bike and $200 on combined course costs and learned from the best and most professional riders ive ever seen in my life.
When I first got interested into motorcycles, in the 20th century's early 90's and my late teens, a Heritage Softail would have been my dream bike. Budget intervened, so I started out with a worn out Yamaha SR500 in '97 aged 23. Meanwhile, a Sportster and a vintage Norton have joined the fleet while the old Yamaha got retired after a major gear breakdown. I still love my first bike, still own it and hope to get her restored and back on the road someday soon (I'm just moving to a new apartment where wrenching will be a lot easier than up to now).
My cravings for big bikes have faded away completely. However, that might be due to the sort of roads we find over here in Europe. A big cruiser or chopper may be right at home on a straight wide U.S. road, on a narrow, winding Bavarian mountain road, medium-size machines are way handier.
You're spot on Kevin, and I too have witnessed riders that aren't ready for the larger bike they bought. Too bad ego prevents so many from working their way up to the larger CC motorcycles by way of riding smaller bikes first. I've noticed those who hone their skills on smaller motorcycles before getting progressively larger bikes is their skill level and for that matter, their love of riding is much-much greater. There's no fun to be had while riding scared, especially while worried that you'll damage your bike.
I am an advocate for tiered motorcycle licensing. If everyone starts out small bike, then there's no stigma riding a small bike.
I haven't ridden in decades, but I have to admit that I would have gone to a 400 cc class bike after having a 550 4 cylinder Suzuki with a Vetter Quicksilver, luggage rack, trunk, crash bars etc. I had a Honda 400 previously and it was more versatile, and way more fun.
It's not a problem that people buy cruisers as a first motorcycle. I bought cruiser as a first motorcycle and everyone here in Europe literally told me I'm crazy because it's so heavy, and big, and wide. People here are terrified of everything that is heavier than 250kg and can't easily squeeze through the traffic jam. The problem is that heavy motorcycle demands skills. The heavier the motorcycle, the better it is to see if the rider has no skills. Sportbike folks are crappy riders as well. But it's harder to notice if sport bike guy has no skills because sport bike is like bicycle in comparison to a cruiser. I see such a "cool" sportbike guys every time we organize open slow speed manoeuvres practice session with my friends. They pull in looking as superheroes, as kings of the roads. I swear, even Valentino Rossi can't compete with their cool. But it's enough a few basic exercises so they look like scared crying little girls while I have fun among cones riding my "too heavy, too big clumsy" cruiser. Why? Because I spend my time training and learning how to ride.
I agree with you that a lot of inexperienced riders buy the big Harleys. But I have to disagree with them being the worst riders. Around here, at least, the worst riders are on crotch rockets. A lot of high school kids and young adults are buying high powered street bikes and riding them like they know what they're doing. The end result is most of them ending up in the hospital. As far as bike nights at the dealership, I've never had a problem showing up on my Iron 1200. Maybe I'm going to the wrong places. Love the channel, keep doing what you do.
I’ve been a rider for 17 years, and a lawyer for 25. Most deaths and near deaths I’ve seen have been about half crotch rockets and the other half Harleys. Lots of takeaways there, but biggest is don’t ride it until you’re ready. I went from a 125 to 250, to a street legal 350, to a KLR 650. To an 800 GSA and then finally to BMW R 1250 RT. Probably about 30,000 miles behind the handlebars. I feel just adequate.
@@pneumaticman5927 I don't know about other places, I just know my area. And around here the worst are crotch rockets. I'm not saying other groups don't have knuckleheads, I'm just saying around here it's crotch rockets.
@@voodoowraith I hear you, brother. They’re style of riding can give us a really bad name, too. No, I hear you.
Just ask an ins. agent the premium cost for someone under 25 yrs.old who wants to insure a crotch rocket. That will tell you allot of the statistics of wrecks on certain bikes.
I cannot stress enough how much truth is being spoken in this video. I started on a 600, stayed humble and went to a sportster when I moved away from my used bike, and even that was a pretty big change. Once I got more comfortable, I test rode a soft tail and fell in love. I could feel how much power it had and I was nervous despite almost 8 years of riding smaller bikes, but I knew I was ready. Even after trading in, it took me a while to start feeling more comfortable on my soft tail.
I'm a relatively new rider (been riding a little over a year) and i love my sportster iron 883. Haven't been made fun of at any Harley meetups.
I've been a rider for most of my life and I'm 61-years old. I've never had a HD because I prefer ADV bikes and HD just entered that class and at the top end. I'm more into mid-sized ADV bikes. That said, the new sportster has some appeal to me. It's lighter than all the other Harley's and has far more power. It would literally run circles around the heavy, push-rod big bore Harleys. Further, the sportster motor has been de-tuned. It puts out 20% MORE HP in the Pan America. Why is the sportster not more popular?
Well, you do realize that only Honda has more bikes on the road than Harley. Davidson and Harley Davidson has more bikes on the road than all other brands. Go figure!
Facts. New riders need to get their egos in check and admit to themselves that they don't "just know" how to ride. It takes practice and experience to gain and hone the skills necessary to safely and proficiently operate a motorcycle -- especially big heavy ones. You think a big shiny Harley makes you look cool? How will you look when you drop or wreck that dream bike in front of people? Take some pride in your ride and learn what you're doing.
Don't you know that you instantly become a Hells Angel when you ride a Harley.
You make great points about the entire aspect of being a first time rider. I knew not to fall into that trap, and after my abate course, i bought a 1200cc sportster. I rode it til i became comfortable with the idea of riding a motorcycle. After a year, I moved up to the Ultra Limited so the wife and I can enjoy time together. Cheers to you for the quality content.
I personally knew a couple of guys who took the MSF course and went out and bought Harleys as their first bikes. Within a few months, both guys told me stories about how they "had to lay it down" because someone pulled out in front of them.
Now, I wasn't there, so I didn't see either situation, but I've never laid my bike down to miss hitting a car that pulled out in front of me. I have, however, been lucky enough to avoid at least a dozen accidents where someone has pulled out in front of me while riding bikes both small and large.
I completely agree with this video and have voiced this same opinion on many occasions.
Thank you for putting this out.
I took my dad to an empty church parking lot when he got his new bagger and had him do a bunch of slow speed maneuverers and emergency braking. He was having a blast until his clutch hand was sore lol.
Slow speed practice is a must.
I'm a new rider with a nearly 800lb BMW R18 as my first bike. The lower center of gravity certainly helps. After I scratched one of the cylinder heads while practicing in a parking lot, I bought some crash bars which has definitely helped me to be a bit more bold while practicing low speed maneuvers. I frequently park toward the top of a multi-story parking garage with numerous sharp blind corners and steep inclines and it has been great for getting daily practice in. Starting from a stop on a steep garage incline that immediately takes a sharp 90 degree turn was pretty freaky at first but I feel like I'm learning faster than I would have if I worked elsewhere. The dealer was understandably worried that I'd be offput from motorcycling by starting on such a heavy cruiser but I've been having a blast.
Been riding Harleys for 30 plus years, and still am. I can't find fault with your statement. I miss my Sportster , it was a fun bike.
Great advice Kevin. When I took the MSF course my dream motorcycle was the Indian Scout. The Scout is an awesome motorcycle to ride. Many riders told me to just go ahead and buy a big touring bike because I would outgrow a smaller bike. That probably to worst advice to give a new rider!
Kinda crazy that an Indian scout is considered a "small bike" I mean I guess it is compared to a 900-1000 pound touring bike. When I think of a small bike, for a beginner to learn on I think of something like 125cc to maybe 400cc. Like Honda a grom or ninja 400 lol
Thanks for the video.
My background is riding since 1996. I wear all the gear all the time.
As my primary transportation, I can honestly say I have half a million miles behind bars.
Almost all in north bay California. Started with a standard, then sport bikes, sport Turing, to adventure. My current bike is a Yamaha Eluder. A big bagger compared to the HD.
There’s been a fair share of bad Japanese bike riders I’ve seen but, the majority are on HD motorcycles.
I’ve been kicked at, flipped off, passed dangerously close and have witnessed some of the most dangerous maneuvers with or without a passenger riding Harleys. I’ve recently moved to Another state that doesn’t require a helmet. I’ve not seen one HD rider wearing a helmet. A backwards baseball cap is their protection. Revving the engine is comical and seeing some of these guys buy “the look” apparel just screams poser.
Don’t get me wrong. I wave at all riders. The majority of HD riders don’t wave back.
I carry a crash bag with water, medical supplies and a little food. I’ve stopped and helped an HD rider that crashed and he was very appreciative and I’d stop for anyone else.
Not here to fight. Just share my experience.
If someone wants to troll me, I won’t feed you.
Keep the rubber side down brothers and sisters ✌🏼😎🇺🇸
The biggest thing I learned after 54 years on two wheels I think came from you . Counter steering ! I have a he'll of a time explaining this to young and old hard headed rider who think I'm full of crap ! As with all your blogs you are right on the spot! Ride safe ! Best wishes to all who follow your lead !
When I taught MSF class I would cringe when they told me I have a new $30,000 New Harley Davidson at home. UGH, I ride an ElectraGlide, and is the best Bike I have ever owned. This is the 7th Bike Been riding for 40 years. Newbies need to learn on a smaller bike and only after years of practice do you "Graduate" to a large touring bike. Of any make.
The main issue for control and comfort on Davidsons is foot peg and seat placement. The rider triangle is not conducive to full control, especially for new riders. Raise the seats H-D, and move the pegs back - way back...
Not everyone is tall. So if every motorcycle manufacturer raises their seats to the level you wish no person like me who is 5'8" could be as comfortable or safe riding a motorcycle. My motorcycle has a seat height of 27 inches and I don't have any trouble with control or comfort because of seat height. It fits me just perfect and I would actually have much less comfort and control if you raised the seat height. Plus, in America where Harley is made, there are more and more short people because the population is becoming less white and more Hispanic and Hispanic people tend to be shorter. Plus more and more Asians are becoming citizens. So as the country gets shorter, making bikes taller is not such a good idea. Plus women also like riding motorcycles these days and they tend to be about 5'4" on average. I do agree that moving the pegs back a little on some models might be good but then tall people will probably not like that.
Witness the video with the ape hangers and forward controls. You could see it coming with the riders total uncertainty. Good thing he was on the front lawn. Asphalt is a lot less forgiving. Instant crash! Lol.
@@jlrutube1312 Thanks. Maybe not make the bikes taller then - just move the pegs back. That might do it. Feet forward Harleys will always be tougher to learn on for a new rider. A Triumph Bonneville T100 "standard" is probably the absolute best riding position for a short new rider of 5'2" to 5' 8" tall. Perfect fit.
I started riding in the 60s. Along with what you said, most of my friends were riding bikes that were less than 100cc and were primarily riding in the dirt being too young to get a driver's license. Riding in the dirt is way different than the street, safer in many ways but also with more traction and road quality issues and also softer to land on. I recall after riding for many years being in a motorcycle shop where a father was being encouraged to buy him a Kawasaki z1 900cc motorcycle. I thought that was insane at the time, '72 or so. Even today the idea of new riders of any age starting with any of the large bikes available today is pretty crazy. Too many buyers have never even driven cars with a manual transmission.... cars don't fall over if one stalls the engine.
I totally agree with you on this. I see a lot of people in the HOG chapter that are scary. I worked my way up, and I got a 04 Road King and was really shocked at the difference. My previous bike was a Yamaha 850 special and it was light compared to relatively small Road King. I did my MSC class on my Road King and I was so discouraged by the end of it, I thought for sure I failed. I had been riding since I was 12 and finally took my class, at 54, to get my M endorsement after getting my Harley because I was worried my insurance wouldn't cover any incident I may have. Well a lot of practice and 10k miles later, most of it in town riding, I'm more comfortable and still see the areas I need to work on. A lot of it is just stupid mistakes I make for I don't know what reason. The rest of it is my slow speed maneuvering, I'm ok at it and haven't dropped my bike since the class; but, all the drops in the class still float around in the back of my head and I have the very typical slow speed lean issue because of it. I practice everytime I ride, and work on areas I know I need to work on though. I've been invited to take some test rides on newer bikes, but I decline them because of the issues I still have. I just keep updating my old bike and loving the hell out of it. It is much more nimble than I would have thought though, and I'm waiting on new front suspension parts to get that upgraded. I already did the rear and taller bars. I never recommend a Harley as a first or even second bike, it is a third or maybe even fourth in my personal opinion.
Started riding last year. Took the Harley MSF and they really pushed the touring bike on me saying it would be great. I ended up getting a Suzuki Boulevard. I spent 6 months practicing slow maneuvers. (I still suck at them). I did get a Street Glide in February. Love it so much. So much better a bike than the Suzuki. Also spent 6 times as much on it :) But glad I didn't listen to the sales guy and did my initial practice on the lighter Suzuki.
I notice they don’t use gear. Well most 😊😊😊😊😊😊
Good thing I bought an Indian then 😂
I agree with your learning approach for sure. I would also point out that this is not limited to Harley riders. Many metric new riders want to jump on 600 or larger sport bikes. Which creates a whole new set of issues. Those bikes from the factory are capable of accelerating faster than 99% of cars. Which ends really bad for fresh riders. Great thoughts here thanks!
Facts.. I live in a small town and a kid that had never rode a motorcycle before buys a 1000cc sport bike and the first time he got on it he went like a bat out of hell 1/2 a block and ran straight into a car and died instantly..
I've been riding for 37 years now and an HD was my dream bike. But get this: it was an 883 Sportster that I wanted! I love the look. It look a few decades but I finally got that Sportster, and actually 2 of them, but 1200 instead. After test riding the 883 I found out that it has NO power to pull out in the traffic I deal with and that could have been bad. My Yamaha majesty 400cc scooter was faster, no kidding. Now my HD is a 2014 Softail Deluxe with a 103 and it's a gorgeous bike. Also have a 2007 Honda VTX 1800 N and a 1998 Honda Shadow 1100 as my daily beater. My wife is now getting ready to learn to ride because she wants to PLUS if something happens to me on the road, she needs to be able to get that bike rolling. Always be prepared. I do not talk junk about what people do about their choice of gear or bike or whatever, but I also believe that the more good info you have about something, the better prepared you are to make the correct choice. If there is an MCRider course near me I would really like to take it. Keith, if I don't get to meet you on this side of eternity then I know I will see you on the other side for a fact! Teaching people to be safe to save lives is no doubt at all God's will for you. Y'all be safe out there and don't forget why you are riding!!
This checks out. My first (and current) motorcycle is a 2013 HD Deluxe, and I feel like I'm part of the minority of new riders who got EXACTLY the bike they needed on the first try. My bike has all of the style, comfort and power that I need, and I've taken it on numerous multi-day trips. Yet, it was still small and forgiving enough for me to get acquainted with while avoiding any dangerous situations. 2 years later, she's still my dream bike and I'm looking forward to many more years with her.
Harleys are SO often ridden "to be seen on" & "bling factor" - and only or mainly on weekends in perfect sunny conditions.
Meaning, the riders seldom log enough hours & miles to gain high levels of skill that come ONLY from hours & hours in the saddle in all types of adverse weather conditions / road conditions.
They also mistske the "road heft & presence" of a Harley heavy cruiser with "Invincibility" but, as you said, that aura evaporates at the first "Road Emergency" which ALL wise motorcyclists fear but a more skilled more alert rider on a lighter bike CAN avoid but a low skill cruiser rider CANNOT.
My neighbors adult Son died on his "show off Harley" one Saturday a few years back, just so.
A neighbor of my friend in Florida - Destin area just reported last month of a couple they know, who were part of a "show off Harley 3 some of couples" who one fine evening were on a group ride & front bike hit road trash & went down - all 3 bikes crashed (3 couples, 2 up man / wife).
None of these geniuses had helmets on & poor lady wife & mother of 4 hit head on pavement, now shes brain dead & a vegetable.
So needlessly, STUPIDLY tragic !
Yes, could have happened on a "Brand J or G" bike, too.
But all too endemic a trend when ones focus is on ANY factors that distract from Skill, Expertise & Wise caution.
When bling, image & social acceptance form your riding protocols, no telling the accidents that await.
I think a lot of inexperienced riders on Harleys are older guys who always wanted one and finally make enough money to pay for one. Before that they rode nothing. It's a status thing. Like folks who drive bug trucks and never haul anything.
I ride an 18 year old Goldwing. Function over ego.
Not all but it's been my observation that the majority of Harley folks aren't that friendly to metric folks.
Disheartening
When I was growing up the Honda 350 came to market, it was an overpowered screaming machine that only crazy people rode, Also the Yamaha Twin 100 was really fast. everybody in junior high that rode motorocycles rode honda 90's, the guys that could shave rode Yamaha twin 100's. What happened is we learned to ride on small dirt bikes, and moved up as we could and if we survived we moved to bigger and bigger bikes. Also in 1978 thru 1980 the super fast Suzuki/Kawaski 900's came out, again a lot of folks should not have bought these, but if you survived you moved up. I recommend everybody start on a Yamaha 125 YZ for dirt only first. The dirt will teach you and will let you decide if going to the street is a good idea or maybe buy a boat instead. HD is not the only big bike new older riders buy to start with, Honda Goldwing, comes to mind. For me, why the Harley? the engine is narrow, I can stretch my feet out if and when I'm on the highway, I'm 68 and the Harley because of its size must be respected. It is NOT a beginners motorcycle. Ride smart live long. The stupid riders get culled early. Love the words of wisdom, thanks for the vids