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Sebastian, your golden age of travel analysis is wrong. The ~$600 dollar price is that day's price adjusted for inflation. Meaning people were paying basically only 50% more inflation adjusted dollars than they are for economy tickets today, but were getting a pleasant luxury experience. Today, you would have to pay at least 10 or 20 times more for a business or first class flight to get a similar experience.
A guy I worked with in Hawaii bought a lifetime membership to Northwest WorldClubs in the early ‘80s for around $2000. He was an Army sergeant at the time and $2000 was crazy money for them…his wife thought he was nuts. Delta grandfathered him in when they stole NW in 2009 and he still uses the lifetime membership. He always said it was the best money he ever spent
I’ve been to LAX Centurion and Delta Sky Club a couple times since the end of the summer, and I personally see the traffic settling down compared to 2022. Perhaps NYC and ATL still suffer from overcrowding, but my experience has been much more comfortable this year.
Yes. Esp 2022 was crowded, that post pandemic effect. Now towards the end of 2023, we have been going into recession, so 2024 will be great for those wanting less crowded lounges.
All I care about as a Business Platinum holder is that AMEX does everything possible to keep the Centurion Lounges exclusive and premium, with no overcrowding, no wait times, and even better food and lounge quality. Most Platinum holders whole heartedly believe in the premium branding of AMEX, and they are extremely loyal. I literally have zero concern what each airline decides to do or how they pivot for their frequent flyer programs. AMEX Centurion lounges are my premium hiatus no matter who I fly, and they help me feel special until I truly breakout financially when I ultimately buy my own Gulfstream, fly private, never turn back, and all of this is moot.
I remember about 10-15 years ago when Priority Pass was a rare credit card benefit. And only the high fee cards had unlimited visits. I think that solves it right there. Unlimited visit Priority Pass only for >$500 fee cards. Or if a lower fee card limited visits per year. I just went to the Chase Sapphire Lounge in Boston and it was packed to the gills. The poor reception people were putting all non-Sapphire Reserve Priority Pass on waitlists all day. Why not make it Sapphire Reserve only? And all other Priority Pass pay for entry or no access. Wouldnt that encourage more people to upgrade to Reserve? It was so crowded it wasnt that enjoyable.
🥂I think the high demand for lounges represents the overall lack of services provided by airports. The “one size fits all” lounge model is also outdated. At Hammad International Airport in Doha, for example, there are three tiers of lounges corresponding to economy, business and first class. The tiered lounge model is likely the future
🥂 Hang on to those Priority Pass cards with restaurant access. When everyone is lining up at the lounges, some airports offer decent restaurants that participate in PP.
You said something that was very interesting regarding different tiers of lounges like economy, business, and first class seating. Each level of service purchased should match the equivalent lounge. It’s simple really, today if you feel entitled you have to pay to play. I also do agree that when everyone benefits from an exclusive service, that service is no longer exclusive. The main issue is Amex holders who are overcrowding the scene. And rightly so as they are essentially paying for this service too, however I don’t think they should have access to the top tier lounges, or not as frequent. I still think that top tier lounges should be reserved for top tier fares regardless of domestic or international. Clearly they are the ones spending the most cash, and the fact that you could spend thousands of dollars in a first class ticket yet you have to sit with the cattle in the terminal because you don’t have a credit card is outrageous to me and lame, and doesn’t provide sufficient incentive to purchase a business/ first class seat just for a more comfortable experience and a free meal on a 2 hour leg.
The lounge access thing is my main reason to ditch my Delta Amex. I get I had to pay for lounge access and I got other “benefits”, but the lounge access was the main kicker for me. The TSA benefit isn’t a big deal since I can upgrade my Capital One and get the same benefit. Also, the travel credit for Delta isn’t worth much since I can only use it in economy and I’m a tall. Golden age of travel, you paid first class rates for Comfort+. And rates were regulated. And you were lucky if you even had a choice between airlines since they were franchised. So it was a manufactured golden age, not a natural one.
I'm probably among those "rarely flying" people but I'd say Delta changes definitely impacted me, especially the "delta basic economy" part. My destinations are among those "$60 more to get main cabin" cases, and buying main is basically equivalent to buying one-time pass. It still make sense to buy main cabin for the cabin benefits, but it's a huge hit. Basically that policy just wiped out most travelers from Expedia, Google flights etc (as they intended to and should). They closed up this basic access but not reenable purchasing one-time pass. If they allow those one-time pass with a higher price tag it might be better.
I can't imagine Chase will keep its lounges open to priority pass members for more than a year or two. They are practically pushing people to get the VX instead of the CSR by having this policy.
🥂 DCA is getting a Centurion lounge by the end of the year and I just know it's gonna be packed all day everyday. Looking forward to seeing more locations from Cap One and Chase
🥂 I travel for work- our assignments are 3 weeks on and 1 week at home and primarily fly to assignments on Delta with connections in Atlanta. I specifically got the Amex Platinum for the Sky Club access. TBH I’m not a huge fan of the changes but it will be something I will have to deal with in the coming months. If it gets to the point where the card becomes a rock then I’ll revisit the issue of canceling. Time will tell I suppose. 🤷
Not sure of the purpose considering that work travel expense at the airport is reimbursable. I would assume it makes sense if you can pay flight and hotel with your credit card. otherwise, you're just paying for a card fee that has lounge access that benefits company and yourself....
🥂 Cool breakdown! I love these kind of reaction videos and hope to see more! 1. Although it would be great to see more availability for sit down options, I also see a huge benefit for people as a place to quickly “do whatever you need to do.” Example, cleaner bathrooms, a place for a quick bite and drink, get my bearings, etc. I have seen a ton of overcrowding when I was leaving Milan earlier this summer and it was hard for the staff to restock (fighting thru the crowds) and to clean up after someone leaves. I definitely think there is a crowding issue with Priority Pass lounges 2. And I think that’s the play here. Lower-tiered lounge in Priority Pass and higher tiered lounge exclusively for businesss/first or Cardbrand focused access like Centurion, Capital One and Chase.
I agree 100%- Status is about the upgrades. Lounges are cool and I appreciate it, but the upgrade and extra baggage, priority boarding, etc are just as important.
I have the Delta Amex Plat and I wasn't going to cancel the card since I'm out of DTW and will still flight Delta. I wasn't going to the lounge that much and haven't when they raised the fee to $50. But I went to Europe 2 weeks ago and my friend and I were delayed 4 hours. Didn't depart till 1am. They kept the lounge open till 12am for us. We both have Delta Plat and paid to get in. We were determining what we were going to do after the new year. Now I'm looking at cards with lounge access that I originally had no interest in 😮💨
1. I'm moving away from Airline loyalty and status, since I only fly 3-4 times per year. Capital One moving into Las Vegas D Gates is a major plus. My understanding is that Alaska offers lounge access with first class, which will get some of our business moving forward. Skyclub X 6 visits is plenty. 2. Middle class lounge access is fine, too late to backpedal now. We've had thousands of years riding horses and wagons, now cars, where i don't think we would get as excited for a lounge at an auto dealer or lube place. Flying still seems like magic to our primitive minds, status from the gods. 🥂
I think Chase will eventually go the opposite route of American Express and restrict lounge access not based on the amount spent on cards but the level of banking relationship. No relationship 8 visits, Sapphire Banking 16 visits, private client and above unlimited visits
@@sydney2462 Sapphire Checking requires 75k in assets, Private Client requires 250k in assets. Checking, savings and person Investment/retirement accounts count toward the requirement.
@@sydney2462 Sapphire Checking requires 75k in assets, Private Client requires 250k in assets. Checking, savings and person Investment/retirement accounts count toward the requirement.
I visited the Sapphire Lounge in Austin back in August. It is all the way at the end of the main terminal, kind of small and had a limited selection of drinks and food.
Went to Heathrow last week. The terminal was quieter than the plaza premium lounge in T2. The lounge was crowded, filthy, noisy, and the food offered was minimal. Awful experience. Left after 20 minutes.
The only time I've walked out of a lounge and preferred the terminal was the old JAL Sakura lounge at SFO, and that was for first class passengers. Incredibly depressing. Luckily, they are in the process of renovating it.
Slight clarification, the ATL airport isn't just the busiest in the US but also the busiest in the world! Otherwise, enjoy the content and keep up the good work.
Especially since covid, i crave good customer service because its hard to find. The tipping flip is annoying so ide rather “buy status” to get some semblance of customer service. It was a world I didnt know about. Thanks Sebby❤
Long-time and happy Amex Platinum card-holder here. Lounge access is NOT a reason to apply for a charge/credit card though. Credit-card-lounge experiences are inconsistent, to say the least. Totally agree with Sebby: If you want a true luxury-lounge experience, you need to spring for an international first or business class ticket. Virgin Atlantic’s Upper Class lounge at London-Heathrow springs to mind.
Equinox is pretty useless unless you live in one of like three cities and even then it's not necessarily going to be convenient location for you, and that's if you even find it worthwhile. Frankly it's a very niche market both geographically and demographically, so for most people the value of the credit is a big fat ZERO. Sacks is a bit better but even so, there pricing isn't the most competitive so you aren't likely saving much unless you really hunt for deals but at which point you probably buying stuff you otherwise wouldn't. Unless there is a location nearby where you live it's also less convenient than just going to one of the many local department stores. Etc. Amex is basically a coupon book where the advertised value greatly exceeds the actual utility.
The only lounges which I had issues getting into is the United Club because some days they don’t accept one time passes. Other than that I never faced an issue getting into one. Even the Amex Lounge at JFK half the lounge is empty. during the morning hours.
🥂I feel like I am always in rush for my flights. Can't really enjoy the full experience of lounges. For me lounges are a place to grab a quick drink and bite before the flight. I like the Air Canada Cafe which gives you pre-packed food and beverages so you can grab and go.
@@AskSebby Indeed, but I found some of the lounges are purposely making their food/drinks as dine in style. Most of the Plaza Premium in Canada have the cups for soft drink. Personally I would prefer the grab and go concept but it will increase the operation cost for lounges too.
🥂 1.) I want to visit. But, lately have not had convenient access while traveling. 2.) I don’t like it. But, with more ppl wanting access. You’re going to have tiers of lounges.
I got the Amex Platinum recently for a 100k SUB but definitely was looking forward to lounge access again. I just had an early flight out of JAX, but neither lounge had opened at their stated times. Final destination was Little Rock, and that airport actually has NO lounge at all! But, SkyClubs in ATL (my layovers) weren't too crowded coming and going, and I got into the SkyClub in JAX AFTER my return flight. I almost always fly Delta, and almost always through Atlanta, so SkyClubs would be my main lounges. I'll have to think long and hard about renewing at $695 at the end of a year since I only fly a few times a year. It would be cheaper to sit out the layover in a nice airport restaurant than pay another $695.
Hi Sammy. recently upgraded to the reserve card specifically for lounge access. find myself traveling a lot lately, hopefully the lounge access will save me. Some money spent in the airport
Do you know why people get mad at Delta??? Well the delta booking agent miss informed us and said, you have complimentary entry into the Delta Sky Lounge because you bought two first class tickets. We learned real quick that was not so. I thought well I have priority pass so I will go to another lounge at LAX, I learned real quick no lounges available through Priority Pass at LAX.😮I have AMEX Hilton Aspire. I will be getting the AMEX platinum to avoid all this mix up.
I also believe a nicer airport negates the need for chasing the lounge experience in a lot of ways. Bahrain is a great example - beautiful modern airport with plenty of space. You can certainly duck in to The Pearl or Falcon Gold lounges (or the airport hotel) but you don't feel like you really need to. Apple to oranges when comparing to US airports (plus BAH was built with a lot more people in mind the kingdom is still hoping to attract through the airport) but a pleasant experience nonetheless @@AskSebby
Airport lounges in US airports are a joke. Flew last week first class fully paid (no points) and refused lounge access, because it was a domestic flight on United. Frequent flyers flying coach with airline credit cards were admitted. Total BS! As a retired couple we only fly once or twice a year so airline credit cards are not worth much to us. We always travel 1st or business class as our trips are infrequent. At the prices charged for 1st or business, lounge access should be included!
I dropped the AMEX Platinum card when I no longer had access to all the airline lounges. I got a Barclays Arrival Plus that gets me into most lounges. It has a better point program and has a significantly lower annual cost.
You had to be "invited".... So if you were brown, black, asian, jewish, italian, catholic, morman, a woman, a citizen, or generally anything other than a WASP, you weren't getting the "invite" to the "club". the "Golden" Era of travel.
I have the Platinum, and the line to get into Delta Sky Club at Atlanta was insane, it had to get 30 or 40 deep. Basically, I have conceded that airport lounges are not worth the hassel.
I think everything is over saturated. I never try to visit a lounge. As of now I just make it to the airport an hour before my flight leave and avoid all the lounge nonsense.
🥂Had my first visit to a Delta lounge last week in Atlanta using my Amex Platinum card. The lounge was very nice, compared to the Escape lounge which is the only lounge in my home airport. Service was excellent and the food was good. The kicker was that I watched the Celtics game on a TV that covered the entire wall! 😁
🥂 I have never seen lounges more crowded. Was in SFO and LAX lounges last week. Food was average at best. Also played San Francisco Golf Club while I was there. You picked the most expensive country club in SF as your example. Would be like comparing a Bentley as a rental car! Lol! I would have gone with Lake Merced as my example. LOL. My biggest complaint at the Delta lounges is I cant get any decent snack mix! Lol!
It’s not actually true that you need to be flying internationally to get into US lounges with status. At least in Oneworld every other Oneworld status holders apart from American Airlines can access their lounges. In some cases it makes more sense for Americans to go for BA or Qatar status than American if lounges are priority. Though miss out on upgrades (at least as many)
10:30 I think that's the rub, the lounges themselves aren't a profit center even though they drive credit card acquisitions. The decision to get the credit card often happens before the consumer realizes how difficult lounge access can be. That said consumers are wising up so it will be hitting the bottom lines of credit card companies, regardless of whether they connect the dots.
17:01 Sebby, can you do a video explaining who owns airports, who would be in charge of making them a better experience overall, is it different depending on what country you are in, etc.?
From what a gather most Annual Fee based Credit cards only additional perk they offer is just for Travel. No Annual Fee Cards can offer mostly the same thing like cash back or subscription credits. I feel if you don’t travel that often then an annual fee credit card is not worth it. Basically you are getting to the airport to sit in a nicer lounge 3 hours before your flight just to get free food and WiFi.
I have the Alaska credit card and went in a couple of weeks ago with my mom, thinking I could buy us both day passes as a treat. They let me know that now the only thing their card gets you is a discounted yearly membership, which is over $300. They are definitely making the lounges something that business travelers or the very rich will be able to afford.
It's 500 something for the basic, and 600 something for the plus (granting access to other lounges). I'd still prefer that plus membership over majority of other lounges. I don't fly much so I don't have to buy. If I knew I'll be flying a lot some year then I would simply do it (via a chase ritz-carlton card).
I ended up cancelling my Alaska card. The Alaska lounge was a good value with the card but that got tossed out and so I did the same with my card. If Alaska offered another higher tier card with lounge access, I’d go back.
The airport experience stinks without lounge access. Lounges are just way better. I think airlines/lounge networks need to focus on growing to meet a higher demand, because the people have spoken. We value lounges!
I agree they should just build more lounges and make a more premium lounge only for Business & first class travelers. But I know real estate in airport is very pricey so I get why they want to just limit who gets in and out. For us we travel a few times a year and a little internationally but we always do group travel so the airlines aren't banking on us.
Sebastian, your golden age of travel analysis is wrong. The ~$600 dollar price is that day's price adjusted for inflation. Meaning people were paying basically only 50% more inflation adjusted dollars than they are for economy tickets today, but were getting a pleasant luxury experience. Today, you would have to pay at least 10 or 20 times more for a business or first class flight to get a similar experience.
Said another way, people are basically paying 30-40% less in inflation-adjusted dollars for a ticket today but getting a much worse experience than they would in the Golden Age of air travel
Compared in that way, yes. I think most people arguing about "back in the day" are comparing it as economy. Basically that economy is now cattle class when it wasn't before. I get what you mean though and 100% agree that you need to pay way more for the same experience now.
Hey Sebby, can you add options in your worth it calculator to change the multiplier on points? Almost everyone has other credit cards that give 1-3x back already, so the worth it cost would only be any extra multipliers ontop of it, say an additional 1x for dining when you already have a chase card
I think being with Delta puts you around people who don't prioritize lounge access but there's a lot of Americans who will go after status on non-US airlines in Oneworld and Star Alliance primarily for lounge access. It also seems like a lot of Americans are shifting to value lounge access more than upgrades which seem to clear less often. For people outside the US, it's even more about lounge access than upgrades as many airlines, especially in Star Alliance, don't even give upgrades as part of their elite benefits.
Let everyone dropp $700 and fight in the Centurion.....I'll CSR it. No airline owns me and I'll PP until Chase dumps PP with CSR lounges. URs definitely are the least watered down.
🥂 Me still waiting on ATL to open the Centurion Lounge in "2023". I think having 20 flying days this year is pretty high and even the 10-15 visit days with the Amex cards might be ok (and I def did not fly delta for all 20 of those flying days). I think I must be pretty lucky but I rarely have to wait to get into sky clubs or even centurion lounges at ATL/JFK. Are they over crowded? Sometimes sure but I would still pick it over the alternative lol
🥂 Great video, thanks! 4 questions. 1. Why do you think that OneWorld lounges are the best? 2. Which lounge network has best food and best aesthetics? 3. Is United going to up its game to compete with Delta's lounges and AA's lounge remodel (all like DCA)? 4. Will Delta ever get a lounge membership card for families like United and AA?
1) Strongest airlines that have F products 2) OW > *A > ST 3) Probably not. Feels like they'll invest more in Polaris before reno (but not following this as much so could be completely wrong) 4) Probably not if they're already dealing with overcrowding
Airlines are not doing a service, it is simple math to get maximum profit from the amount of space in an aircraft. Economy tickets are less but they take very less space so they can cram a lot of seats and get their profit.
What do you think of the Bilt transfer offer to emirates? I’ve never flown emirates before but with a 125% bonus I can get 2,250 skywards miles for every 1000 Bilt points. Do you know of any good emirates redemptions and if this is worth transferring for without any plan?
Plan to travel next year to LAX, ORL, MIA, IAH, Lihue ( Kauai) . Does Sapphire reserved with $550 fee. Is it worth for lounge good for any of above airports. Any other suggestion. Thank. Big fan. Pulled the trigger for Alila Big Sur after watching your and GF videos.
Priority Pass lounges in the US aren't good compared to international lounges. Might be better off w/ the Amex Platinum to access the Centurion Lounges in LAX, MIA, and IAH. The card also comes with Priority Pass. Calculator here to crunch the numbers: www.asksebby.com/credit-card-reviews/amex-platinum-card
Last August, i had layovers in Frankfort and Osaka. Both of them were hot and humid. I couldn't get to the lounge in Frankfort which made it miserable, but i could get to a lounge in Osaka. There weren't a lot of amenities, but the air conditioning was a huge plus.
Lounges wouldn’t be necessary if the flights were more comfortable. I don’t fly for business. I do spend six figures on cards and want to be comfortable if put in a layover position. If the million mile folks want their sacred spot I’m fine with that. I won’t give my loyalty and pay high annual fees without getting compensation however. How they navigate this is going to be interesting.
I know this is your shtick, Sebby and you’re good at it and I enjoy watching your vids. Having said that, I miss the days before credit cards gave travelers lounge access. It was more quiet, more peaceful, less crowded, more food available, more places to sit down and relax, more access to lounges, etc. Credit cards ruined it all. Now, they’re crowded. Sometimes you can’t even get in one. Every self important person thinks they deserve the use of a lounge when all they’re doing is flying 2 hours away.
If I have a card saying I’m entitled to entry, I’m entitled to entry by definition. Pay more for first class only lounges or fly private if you want to avoid commoners 😂
It’s all good! Lounges seem rarely overcrowded. I think they are just right. I don’t need a palace. Just amenities and a nice place to work. I don’t need a palace. I agree with Sebby, would be better if the airports themselves had better amenities would actually rather wander and explore than park in one spot.
All I care about as a Business Platinum holder is that AMEX does everything possible to keep the Centurion Lounges exclusive and premium, with no overcrowding, no wait times, and even better food and lounge quality. Most Platinum holders whole heartedly believe in the premium branding of AMEX, and they are extremely loyal. I literally have zero concern what each airline decides to do or how they pivot for their frequent flyer programs. AMEX Centurion lounges are my premium hiatus no matter who I fly, and they help me feel special until I truly breakout financially when I ultimately buy my own Gulfstream, fly private, never turn back, and all of this is moot.
I have the Delta Amex Plat and I wasn't going to cancel the card since I'm out of DTW and will still flight Delta. I wasn't going to the lounge that much and haven't when they raised the fee to $50. But I went to Europe 2 weeks ago and my friend and I were delayed 4 hours. Didn't depart till 1am. They kept the lounge open till 12am for us. We both have Delta Plat and paid to get in. We were determining what we were going to do after the new year. Now I'm looking at cards with lounge access that I originally had no interest in 😮💨
Slight clarification, the ATL airport isn't just the busiest in the US but also the busiest in the world! Otherwise, enjoy the content and keep up the good work.
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Sebastian, your golden age of travel analysis is wrong. The ~$600 dollar price is that day's price adjusted for inflation. Meaning people were paying basically only 50% more inflation adjusted dollars than they are for economy tickets today, but were getting a pleasant luxury experience.
Today, you would have to pay at least 10 or 20 times more for a business or first class flight to get a similar experience.
A guy I worked with in Hawaii bought a lifetime membership to Northwest WorldClubs in the early ‘80s for around $2000. He was an Army sergeant at the time and $2000 was crazy money for them…his wife thought he was nuts. Delta grandfathered him in when they stole NW in 2009 and he still uses the lifetime membership. He always said it was the best money he ever spent
I’ve been to LAX Centurion and Delta Sky Club a couple times since the end of the summer, and I personally see the traffic settling down compared to 2022.
Perhaps NYC and ATL still suffer from overcrowding, but my experience has been much more comfortable this year.
Thanks for sharing! Good to hear.
Agree with this. Amex lounges much calmer is 2023 than 2021 and 2022.
Yes. Esp 2022 was crowded, that post pandemic effect. Now towards the end of 2023, we have been going into recession, so 2024 will be great for those wanting less crowded lounges.
All I care about as a Business Platinum holder is that AMEX does everything possible to keep the Centurion Lounges exclusive and premium, with no overcrowding, no wait times, and even better food and lounge quality. Most Platinum holders whole heartedly believe in the premium branding of AMEX, and they are extremely loyal. I literally have zero concern what each airline decides to do or how they pivot for their frequent flyer programs. AMEX Centurion lounges are my premium hiatus no matter who I fly, and they help me feel special until I truly breakout financially when I ultimately buy my own Gulfstream, fly private, never turn back, and all of this is moot.
I remember about 10-15 years ago when Priority Pass was a rare credit card benefit. And only the high fee cards had unlimited visits. I think that solves it right there. Unlimited visit Priority Pass only for >$500 fee cards. Or if a lower fee card limited visits per year. I just went to the Chase Sapphire Lounge in Boston and it was packed to the gills. The poor reception people were putting all non-Sapphire Reserve Priority Pass on waitlists all day. Why not make it Sapphire Reserve only? And all other Priority Pass pay for entry or no access. Wouldnt that encourage more people to upgrade to Reserve? It was so crowded it wasnt that enjoyable.
🥂I think the high demand for lounges represents the overall lack of services provided by airports.
The “one size fits all” lounge model is also outdated. At Hammad International Airport in Doha, for example, there are three tiers of lounges corresponding to economy, business and first class. The tiered lounge model is likely the future
🥂 Hang on to those Priority Pass cards with restaurant access. When everyone is lining up at the lounges, some airports offer decent restaurants that participate in PP.
You said something that was very interesting regarding different tiers of lounges like economy, business, and first class seating.
Each level of service purchased should match the equivalent lounge. It’s simple really, today if you feel entitled you have to pay to play. I also do agree that when everyone benefits from an exclusive service, that service is no longer exclusive.
The main issue is Amex holders who are overcrowding the scene. And rightly so as they are essentially paying for this service too, however I don’t think they should have access to the top tier lounges, or not as frequent.
I still think that top tier lounges should be reserved for top tier fares regardless of domestic or international. Clearly they are the ones spending the most cash, and the fact that you could spend thousands of dollars in a first class ticket yet you have to sit with the cattle in the terminal because you don’t have a credit card is outrageous to me and lame, and doesn’t provide sufficient incentive to purchase a business/ first class seat just for a more comfortable experience and a free meal on a 2 hour leg.
The lounge access thing is my main reason to ditch my Delta Amex. I get I had to pay for lounge access and I got other “benefits”, but the lounge access was the main kicker for me. The TSA benefit isn’t a big deal since I can upgrade my Capital One and get the same benefit. Also, the travel credit for Delta isn’t worth much since I can only use it in economy and I’m a tall.
Golden age of travel, you paid first class rates for Comfort+. And rates were regulated. And you were lucky if you even had a choice between airlines since they were franchised. So it was a manufactured golden age, not a natural one.
I'm probably among those "rarely flying" people but I'd say Delta changes definitely impacted me, especially the "delta basic economy" part. My destinations are among those "$60 more to get main cabin" cases, and buying main is basically equivalent to buying one-time pass. It still make sense to buy main cabin for the cabin benefits, but it's a huge hit. Basically that policy just wiped out most travelers from Expedia, Google flights etc (as they intended to and should). They closed up this basic access but not reenable purchasing one-time pass. If they allow those one-time pass with a higher price tag it might be better.
I can't imagine Chase will keep its lounges open to priority pass members for more than a year or two. They are practically pushing people to get the VX instead of the CSR by having this policy.
LGA(LaGuardia) is also doing a Capital One Lounge in the new airport terminal space
🥂 DCA is getting a Centurion lounge by the end of the year and I just know it's gonna be packed all day everyday. Looking forward to seeing more locations from Cap One and Chase
Excited to see more CO and Sapphire lounges open!
🥂 Haha I’m a Uber driver with a Model X, and it’s funny how many people have no idea what it is. More than just an average Tesla.
🥂 I travel for work- our assignments are 3 weeks on and 1 week at home and primarily fly to assignments on Delta with connections in Atlanta. I specifically got the Amex Platinum for the Sky Club access. TBH I’m not a huge fan of the changes but it will be something I will have to deal with in the coming months. If it gets to the point where the card becomes a rock then I’ll revisit the issue of canceling. Time will tell I suppose. 🤷
Not sure of the purpose considering that work travel expense at the airport is reimbursable. I would assume it makes sense if you can pay flight and hotel with your credit card. otherwise, you're just paying for a card fee that has lounge access that benefits company and yourself....
🥂 Cool breakdown! I love these kind of reaction videos and hope to see more!
1. Although it would be great to see more availability for sit down options, I also see a huge benefit for people as a place to quickly “do whatever you need to do.” Example, cleaner bathrooms, a place for a quick bite and drink, get my bearings, etc. I have seen a ton of overcrowding when I was leaving Milan earlier this summer and it was hard for the staff to restock (fighting thru the crowds) and to clean up after someone leaves. I definitely think there is a crowding issue with Priority Pass lounges
2. And I think that’s the play here. Lower-tiered lounge in Priority Pass and higher tiered lounge exclusively for businesss/first or Cardbrand focused access like Centurion, Capital One and Chase.
🥂Great video Sebby and the lounges are definitely busy in the US and Atlanta is the busiest airport in the world 🥂
ATL is receiving a Centurion Lounge next year which I am surprised we didn't have one sooner- Delta Sky Club is always crowded.
Excited for it!!
Turkish Airlines IAD was packed an hour before closing this Sunday but The Club CLE had plenty of room Saturday night ...lounges are hit or miss.
Agree! Peak travel days/times vs off-peak.
Lounges we’re never meant for their whole families with screaming kids everywhere
I agree 100%- Status is about the upgrades. Lounges are cool and I appreciate it, but the upgrade and extra baggage, priority boarding, etc are just as important.
Shopping in most US airports suck, basically just overpriced convenience stores with odd selections.
I have the Delta Amex Plat and I wasn't going to cancel the card since I'm out of DTW and will still flight Delta. I wasn't going to the lounge that much and haven't when they raised the fee to $50. But I went to Europe 2 weeks ago and my friend and I were delayed 4 hours. Didn't depart till 1am. They kept the lounge open till 12am for us. We both have Delta Plat and paid to get in. We were determining what we were going to do after the new year. Now I'm looking at cards with lounge access that I originally had no interest in 😮💨
1. I'm moving away from Airline loyalty and status, since I only fly 3-4 times per year. Capital One moving into Las Vegas D Gates is a major plus. My understanding is that Alaska offers lounge access with first class, which will get some of our business moving forward. Skyclub X 6 visits is plenty.
2. Middle class lounge access is fine, too late to backpedal now. We've had thousands of years riding horses and wagons, now cars, where i don't think we would get as excited for a lounge at an auto dealer or lube place. Flying still seems like magic to our primitive minds, status from the gods. 🥂
I think Chase will eventually go the opposite route of American Express and restrict lounge access not based on the amount spent on cards but the level of banking relationship. No relationship 8 visits, Sapphire Banking 16 visits, private client and above unlimited visits
Very possible if the Sapphire lounges get out of hand.
Define banking relationship? I have the CSR and have been flirting with the idea of opening an investment account.
@@sydney2462 Sapphire Checking requires 75k in assets, Private Client requires 250k in assets. Checking, savings and person Investment/retirement accounts count toward the requirement.
@@sydney2462 Sapphire Checking requires 75k in assets, Private Client requires 250k in assets. Checking, savings and person Investment/retirement accounts count toward the requirement.
I visited the Sapphire Lounge in Austin back in August. It is all the way at the end of the main terminal, kind of small and had a limited selection of drinks and food.
Went to Heathrow last week. The terminal was quieter than the plaza premium lounge in T2. The lounge was crowded, filthy, noisy, and the food offered was minimal.
Awful experience. Left after 20 minutes.
The only time I've walked out of a lounge and preferred the terminal was the old JAL Sakura lounge at SFO, and that was for first class passengers. Incredibly depressing. Luckily, they are in the process of renovating it.
Just got my Amex Platinum this year I hope I can reap the benefits before they’re neutered
Slight clarification, the ATL airport isn't just the busiest in the US but also the busiest in the world! Otherwise, enjoy the content and keep up the good work.
I think traffic will go down. Only because tech and banking is experiencing MASSIVE layoffs.
Especially since covid, i crave good customer service because its hard to find. The tipping flip is annoying so ide rather “buy status” to get some semblance of customer service. It was a world I didnt know about. Thanks Sebby❤
Long-time and happy Amex Platinum card-holder here.
Lounge access is NOT a reason to apply for a charge/credit card though. Credit-card-lounge experiences are inconsistent, to say the least.
Totally agree with Sebby: If you want a true luxury-lounge experience, you need to spring for an international first or business class ticket. Virgin Atlantic’s Upper Class lounge at London-Heathrow springs to mind.
Equinox is pretty useless unless you live in one of like three cities and even then it's not necessarily going to be convenient location for you, and that's if you even find it worthwhile. Frankly it's a very niche market both geographically and demographically, so for most people the value of the credit is a big fat ZERO.
Sacks is a bit better but even so, there pricing isn't the most competitive so you aren't likely saving much unless you really hunt for deals but at which point you probably buying stuff you otherwise wouldn't. Unless there is a location nearby where you live it's also less convenient than just going to one of the many local department stores.
Etc.
Amex is basically a coupon book where the advertised value greatly exceeds the actual utility.
The only lounges which I had issues getting into is the United Club because some days they don’t accept one time passes.
Other than that I never faced an issue getting into one. Even the Amex Lounge at JFK half the lounge is empty. during the morning hours.
Early morning hours are the best! Usually completely empty.
🥂I feel like I am always in rush for my flights. Can't really enjoy the full experience of lounges. For me lounges are a place to grab a quick drink and bite before the flight. I like the Air Canada Cafe which gives you pre-packed food and beverages so you can grab and go.
I think grab and go stations would solve some over crowding issues.
@@AskSebby Indeed, but I found some of the lounges are purposely making their food/drinks as dine in style. Most of the Plaza Premium in Canada have the cups for soft drink. Personally I would prefer the grab and go concept but it will increase the operation cost for lounges too.
🥂 1.) I want to visit. But, lately have not had convenient access while traveling. 2.) I don’t like it. But, with more ppl wanting access. You’re going to have tiers of lounges.
I got the Amex Platinum recently for a 100k SUB but definitely was looking forward to lounge access again. I just had an early flight out of JAX, but neither lounge had opened at their stated times. Final destination was Little Rock, and that airport actually has NO lounge at all! But, SkyClubs in ATL (my layovers) weren't too crowded coming and going, and I got into the SkyClub in JAX AFTER my return flight. I almost always fly Delta, and almost always through Atlanta, so SkyClubs would be my main lounges. I'll have to think long and hard about renewing at $695 at the end of a year since I only fly a few times a year. It would be cheaper to sit out the layover in a nice airport restaurant than pay another $695.
Hi Sammy. recently upgraded to the reserve card specifically for lounge access. find myself traveling a lot lately, hopefully the lounge access will save me. Some money spent in the airport
Do you know why people get mad at Delta??? Well the delta booking agent miss informed us and said, you have complimentary entry into the Delta Sky Lounge because you bought two first class tickets. We learned real quick that was not so. I thought well I have priority pass so I will go to another lounge at LAX, I learned real quick no lounges available through Priority Pass at LAX.😮I have AMEX Hilton Aspire. I will be getting the AMEX platinum to avoid all this mix up.
a CNBC producer should sign you up as a contributor to their travel + cc related videos. total no brainer!
Haha, Dear CNBC...
I also believe a nicer airport negates the need for chasing the lounge experience in a lot of ways. Bahrain is a great example - beautiful modern airport with plenty of space. You can certainly duck in to The Pearl or Falcon Gold lounges (or the airport hotel) but you don't feel like you really need to. Apple to oranges when comparing to US airports (plus BAH was built with a lot more people in mind the kingdom is still hoping to attract through the airport) but a pleasant experience nonetheless @@AskSebby
International > US lounges
Just cancelled two authorized users on my platinum account. 400 dollars is a lot to pay for privilege to wait for 30 min to get into centurion lounge
I’m glad it’s tightening up.
Airport lounges in US airports are a joke. Flew last week first class fully paid (no points) and refused lounge access, because it was a domestic flight on United. Frequent flyers flying coach with airline credit cards were admitted. Total BS! As a retired couple we only fly once or twice a year so airline credit cards are not worth much to us. We always travel 1st or business class as our trips are infrequent. At the prices charged for 1st or business, lounge access should be included!
I dropped the AMEX Platinum card when I no longer had access to all the airline lounges.
I got a Barclays Arrival Plus that gets me into most lounges. It has a better point program and has a significantly lower annual cost.
You had to be "invited".... So if you were brown, black, asian, jewish, italian, catholic, morman, a woman, a citizen, or generally anything other than a WASP, you weren't getting the "invite" to the "club". the "Golden" Era of travel.
I have the Platinum, and the line to get into Delta Sky Club at Atlanta was insane, it had to get 30 or 40 deep. Basically, I have conceded that airport lounges are not worth the hassel.
I think everything is over saturated. I never try to visit a lounge. As of now I just make it to the airport an hour before my flight leave and avoid all the lounge nonsense.
🥂Had my first visit to a Delta lounge last week in Atlanta using my Amex Platinum card. The lounge was very nice, compared to the Escape lounge which is the only lounge in my home airport. Service was excellent and the food was good. The kicker was that I watched the Celtics game on a TV that covered the entire wall! 😁
🥂This was great Sebby! Thanks for the reaction and information!🫵
The weird thing is this lounge issue is only a issue in the USA
Everywhere else in Europe and Asia the lounges are not crowded
Because they don't get access with credit cards only
Also with Delta; their partner airlines have use of the SkyClubs too.
🥂 I have never seen lounges more crowded. Was in SFO and LAX lounges last week. Food was average at best. Also played San Francisco Golf Club while I was there. You picked the most expensive country club in SF as your example. Would be like comparing a Bentley as a rental car! Lol! I would have gone with Lake Merced as my example. LOL. My biggest complaint at the Delta lounges is I cant get any decent snack mix! Lol!
It’s not actually true that you need to be flying internationally to get into US lounges with status. At least in Oneworld every other Oneworld status holders apart from American Airlines can access their lounges. In some cases it makes more sense for Americans to go for BA or Qatar status than American if lounges are priority. Though miss out on upgrades (at least as many)
10:30 I think that's the rub, the lounges themselves aren't a profit center even though they drive credit card acquisitions. The decision to get the credit card often happens before the consumer realizes how difficult lounge access can be. That said consumers are wising up so it will be hitting the bottom lines of credit card companies, regardless of whether they connect the dots.
17:01 Sebby, can you do a video explaining who owns airports, who would be in charge of making them a better experience overall, is it different depending on what country you are in, etc.?
From what a gather most Annual Fee based Credit cards only additional perk they offer is just for Travel. No Annual Fee Cards can offer mostly the same thing like cash back or subscription credits. I feel if you don’t travel that often then an annual fee credit card is not worth it. Basically you are getting to the airport to sit in a nicer lounge 3 hours before your flight just to get free food and WiFi.
I have the Alaska credit card and went in a couple of weeks ago with my mom, thinking I could buy us both day passes as a treat. They let me know that now the only thing their card gets you is a discounted yearly membership, which is over $300. They are definitely making the lounges something that business travelers or the very rich will be able to afford.
It's 500 something for the basic, and 600 something for the plus (granting access to other lounges). I'd still prefer that plus membership over majority of other lounges. I don't fly much so I don't have to buy. If I knew I'll be flying a lot some year then I would simply do it (via a chase ritz-carlton card).
Have the card was well. The only thing it's good for is the BOGO cert, and even then you still have to divert 6k to it after the first year.
Have the card was well. The only thing it's good for is the BOGO cert, and even then you still have to divert 6k to it after the first year.
I ended up cancelling my Alaska card. The Alaska lounge was a good value with the card but that got tossed out and so I did the same with my card. If Alaska offered another higher tier card with lounge access, I’d go back.
Most FC pax are on free upgrades
🥂Sebbyyyyyyy I need that keeper card video in my lifeee😫😫😫
The airport experience stinks without lounge access. Lounges are just way better.
I think airlines/lounge networks need to focus on growing to meet a higher demand, because the people have spoken. We value lounges!
🥂 excellent content as always!
Thanks for watching! :)
I agree they should just build more lounges and make a more premium lounge only for Business & first class travelers. But I know real estate in airport is very pricey so I get why they want to just limit who gets in and out. For us we travel a few times a year and a little internationally but we always do group travel so the airlines aren't banking on us.
Sebastian, your golden age of travel analysis is wrong. The ~$600 dollar price is that day's price adjusted for inflation. Meaning people were paying basically only 50% more inflation adjusted dollars than they are for economy tickets today, but were getting a pleasant luxury experience.
Today, you would have to pay at least 10 or 20 times more for a business or first class flight to get a similar experience.
Said another way, people are basically paying 30-40% less in inflation-adjusted dollars for a ticket today but getting a much worse experience than they would in the Golden Age of air travel
Compared in that way, yes. I think most people arguing about "back in the day" are comparing it as economy. Basically that economy is now cattle class when it wasn't before.
I get what you mean though and 100% agree that you need to pay way more for the same experience now.
Hey Sebby, can you add options in your worth it calculator to change the multiplier on points? Almost everyone has other credit cards that give 1-3x back already, so the worth it cost would only be any extra multipliers ontop of it, say an additional 1x for dining when you already have a chase card
Golden age of travel had no TV and movies so…pass.
I think being with Delta puts you around people who don't prioritize lounge access but there's a lot of Americans who will go after status on non-US airlines in Oneworld and Star Alliance primarily for lounge access. It also seems like a lot of Americans are shifting to value lounge access more than upgrades which seem to clear less often.
For people outside the US, it's even more about lounge access than upgrades as many airlines, especially in Star Alliance, don't even give upgrades as part of their elite benefits.
Let everyone dropp $700 and fight in the Centurion.....I'll CSR it. No airline owns me and I'll PP until Chase dumps PP with CSR lounges. URs definitely are the least watered down.
🥂 Me still waiting on ATL to open the Centurion Lounge in "2023". I think having 20 flying days this year is pretty high and even the 10-15 visit days with the Amex cards might be ok (and I def did not fly delta for all 20 of those flying days). I think I must be pretty lucky but I rarely have to wait to get into sky clubs or even centurion lounges at ATL/JFK. Are they over crowded? Sometimes sure but I would still pick it over the alternative lol
Flying mostly from SFO I need to try the United Club Biz card 🥂
I've been eying the Explorer card.
I just got that card. I really enjoyed it so far. Free bags , lounge access, and priority privileges . Nice
Love your topics, but I think many of us would appreciate tighter, 6-8 minute videos
🥂 Great video, thanks! 4 questions. 1. Why do you think that OneWorld lounges are the best? 2. Which lounge network has best food and best aesthetics? 3. Is United going to up its game to compete with Delta's lounges and AA's lounge remodel (all like DCA)? 4. Will Delta ever get a lounge membership card for families like United and AA?
1) Strongest airlines that have F products
2) OW > *A > ST
3) Probably not. Feels like they'll invest more in Polaris before reno (but not following this as much so could be completely wrong)
4) Probably not if they're already dealing with overcrowding
Airlines are not doing a service, it is simple math to get maximum profit from the amount of space in an aircraft. Economy tickets are less but they take very less space so they can cram a lot of seats and get their profit.
What do you think of the Bilt transfer offer to emirates?
I’ve never flown emirates before but with a 125% bonus I can get 2,250 skywards miles for every 1000 Bilt points.
Do you know of any good emirates redemptions and if this is worth transferring for without any plan?
🥂Great job as usual!
Thanks for watching! :)
Over the past 5 years, the quality has also gone down.
Keep the Delta Amex platinum or upgrade to the reserve? Fly about 4 times a year. 1 to 2 international
Just some feedback, your jump cuts are really distracting as you don’t maintain the aspect ratio. Had to minimize the video to eliminate it
Can you still get into the lounge just by paying the money even after 2024 or are paying customers also cut off from the capital one lounge as well?
Yes, you can still pay for CO lounges in 2024.
I don’t know man…if this continues I don’t see the point of having there cards anymore
Many country clubs also have dining requirements that make them even more expen$ive!!
I can imagine!
Plan to travel next year to LAX, ORL, MIA, IAH, Lihue ( Kauai) . Does Sapphire reserved with $550 fee. Is it worth for lounge good for any of above airports. Any other suggestion. Thank. Big fan. Pulled the trigger for Alila Big Sur after watching your and GF videos.
Priority Pass lounges in the US aren't good compared to international lounges. Might be better off w/ the Amex Platinum to access the Centurion Lounges in LAX, MIA, and IAH. The card also comes with Priority Pass. Calculator here to crunch the numbers: www.asksebby.com/credit-card-reviews/amex-platinum-card
If I Fly out of SFO what’s the best airline to fly out of to be close to the Amex Centurion lounge ?
Centurion lounge is in the United terminal.
Last August, i had layovers in Frankfort and Osaka. Both of them were hot and humid. I couldn't get to the lounge in Frankfort which made it miserable, but i could get to a lounge in Osaka. There weren't a lot of amenities, but the air conditioning was a huge plus.
Star Alliance is the best allliance for actually flying since they have the most partners and most lounges among their members.
Happy Halloween!!!🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃👻👻👻👻👻
Lounges wouldn’t be necessary if the flights were more comfortable. I don’t fly for business. I do spend six figures on cards and want to be comfortable if put in a layover position. If the million mile folks want their sacred spot I’m fine with that. I won’t give my loyalty and pay high annual fees without getting compensation however. How they navigate this is going to be interesting.
I know this is your shtick, Sebby and you’re good at it and I enjoy watching your vids. Having said that, I miss the days before credit cards gave travelers lounge access. It was more quiet, more peaceful, less crowded, more food available, more places to sit down and relax, more access to lounges, etc. Credit cards ruined it all. Now, they’re crowded. Sometimes you can’t even get in one. Every self important person thinks they deserve the use of a lounge when all they’re doing is flying 2 hours away.
Haha so only for you… could always fly private!
If I have a card saying I’m entitled to entry, I’m entitled to entry by definition. Pay more for first class only lounges or fly private if you want to avoid commoners 😂
Blame the greedy airlines then…
The lounges are pretty crowded. I normally just go in use the restroom, grab some snacks and a coffee and leave
It’s all good! Lounges seem rarely overcrowded. I think they are just right. I don’t need a palace. Just amenities and a nice place to work. I don’t need a palace. I agree with Sebby, would be better if the airports themselves had better amenities would actually rather wander and explore than park in one spot.
I gave up my Delta Reserve because I couldn't get in the Skyclubs only to find out if it is now the card to have.
Yeah that CNBC video was so cringy. I didn't finish it.
based LWC mug
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All I care about as a Business Platinum holder is that AMEX does everything possible to keep the Centurion Lounges exclusive and premium, with no overcrowding, no wait times, and even better food and lounge quality. Most Platinum holders whole heartedly believe in the premium branding of AMEX, and they are extremely loyal. I literally have zero concern what each airline decides to do or how they pivot for their frequent flyer programs. AMEX Centurion lounges are my premium hiatus no matter who I fly, and they help me feel special until I truly breakout financially when I ultimately buy my own Gulfstream, fly private, never turn back, and all of this is moot.
I have the Delta Amex Plat and I wasn't going to cancel the card since I'm out of DTW and will still flight Delta. I wasn't going to the lounge that much and haven't when they raised the fee to $50. But I went to Europe 2 weeks ago and my friend and I were delayed 4 hours. Didn't depart till 1am. They kept the lounge open till 12am for us. We both have Delta Plat and paid to get in. We were determining what we were going to do after the new year. Now I'm looking at cards with lounge access that I originally had no interest in 😮💨
Slight clarification, the ATL airport isn't just the busiest in the US but also the busiest in the world! Otherwise, enjoy the content and keep up the good work.
Just cancelled two authorized users on my platinum account. 400 dollars is a lot to pay for privilege to wait for 30 min to get into centurion lounge