VW ID Buzz 82 kWh vs ID5 & Model 3 charging battle
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2022
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Well done VW. Now put this powertrain on a efficient sedan and we may see a 9:30 hrs car in 1000 km challenge one day.
Awesome video... you just keep churning out fun and useful goodies. Thank you sir!
Like a buzz!
Will be interesting to compare battery degradation on German vs Tesla batteries in a couple of years. How damaging is the flat curve compared to Teslas "steep" curve.
Well the Tesla uses more of the available pack than the VW, which is why they need a sharper curve. The warranties are better for Korean and German cars than the Tesla's so they seem confident. My Model 3P if 4 years old with 50k miles and has lost about 11%, which seems a little better than average.
@@markhall7173 whats the warranty on german and korean cars compared to tesla?
The Tesla pack is hotter so it would be more likely to experience damage than the ID packs
@@Isamu1013 8 years and 100k miles
@@Isamu1013 Not sure what @Mark Hall is talking about, as the battery warranty is mostly the same across the board: 8 years / 100k miles for Hyundai Ioniq 5, Kia EV6, Audi eTron, Porsche Taycan, ID cars, etc, as well as the Tesla Model 3 RWD. Most other Tesla models have an even higher mileage allowance, like 120k or 150k with the same timeframe of 8 years, so it's actually better for Tesla owners.
Yes very nice charging speed, I noticed it also in the video yesterday.
Maybe the pack has additional battery modules (~10kwh) and is “software”/BMS limited.
Software Version of ID5 and Buzz would be interesting. Additionally VW claims themselves that there is a difference in the batteries between ID5 GTX and the regular ID5.
In the end a lower energy consumption per 100 km is more important than a few minutes of faster charging until 90%. In many cases it is better to charge only up to 70% and continue your trip.
That’s what we learned from Bjørns 1.000 km challenges.
Good video - 🎉. Is it possible to find an updated version of your range and road noise - comparisson?
Would you mind to share the settings for the ID5 setting on your ODBlink or maybe per car share the settings you are using ? thanks
Both approaches (VW, Tesla) can make sense, depending on the use case. But definitely impressive curve on the Buzz.
Yeah absolutely right. If you like to hop from charger to charger Tesla is the way to go. If you want to drive longer trips and charge longer but less often, ID is the way to go. You cannot say the one is better then the other. 👍
I was looking for a timer on this video to get a better sense of how long the charge session took. Found the tiny clock in the top right corner.
Cool comparison! But even though Model 3 falls behind when charging to 80-90%, the "steep charging curve" approach makes you POTENTIALLY go faster on long distance trips, if you keep to sweet spot charging. "Flat charging curve" however is more user friendly, since you don't want to care about from which SoC to which other SoC you have to charge...
Mr. Bjorn, please, why you don't talk about the charging speed of Model 3 2019 Panasonic versus Model 3 2021 panasonic or 2022 LG?
My model 3 2019 like MC hammer, charge until 50% at 150kw.
For me, Tesla has regressed in battery quality from 2019 to now.
Thank you!
Finaly some possible work cars up for testing 👍
Wouldn't it make sense to dimply charging curve as range over charging time?
Didi the VW have same Software Versions?
That’s weird.. with my 2020 model 3 (75kwh) now 98k km and I arrive with 5% av a v3 and at 50% I’m still at 140-150kw should I be worried ? Last discharge circle I’ve done from 100% to 1% used 68kwh according to onboard trop meter so I assume battery still fine
How can the M3 go above the 500A cap for CCS? Isn't the standard limited to 500A?
fun video and indeed surprising result! 😂👍
how does affect battery life of the ID Buzz, is there any downside to charging to so fast
ID Bozz for the win 👍
I wonder if an id4/5 on the same sw as the buzz would charge differently
Nice. Could you tell me something about the noise while charging? Is there any? Like the ford mustang makes such an amount of noise that it is banned from charging in a few cities
No noise
Def great charging curve… nice one…
Maybe having 2kwh more buffer than M3P helps with that charging curve…, especially as buffer on Tesla is below 0%…, not over 100%, like it would most likely be on VW/German cars…
I have not evaluated it, but these days I charge a lot at Ionity and EnBW with my Model 3 and it seems to me that the charging curve there is also a bit more flat than charging at the V3 SuC. Maybe this initial 250kW charging peak roasts the battery while getting max. 200kW at Ionity is more sustainable.
Thanks for this video! 😃👍🏻
I would prefer range added over time, instead of power over time.
You know this is comparing batteries, this is good but we have to think about consumption to have a revelant picture during a road trip.
Thanks
Tesla isn’t the only one using Cells from different manufacturers.
Funny that many say that the higher charging rate of the VW could cause a higher degradation, but. The fact that Tesla stresses the Cells with 5-10K higher temps, seems OK for the most. 🤷♂️
BTW, what are the 10-80% times? It would be nice to know if VW delivers with the announced
You can see the time in the upper right corner. It starts at 22.38 at 10%, and the ID Buzz reach 80% just before 23.07, so roughly 29-30 minutes from 10%-80%.
i have noticed in ScanMyTesla, that Tesla aggressively cools the battery after fastcharging. So it wont be at 50-60 degrees for long.
@@danedane6613 oh thank you. I haven’t seen it. Nevertheless, a timer for each recording would be nice, who knows if he is running the Buzz video extra fast. 🤷♂️
@@e-redj I haven’t noticed he runs the feeds faster in any case 😁 as I know Bjørn from his videos he is really honest. Most of the charging videos have at least one of the feeds with a clock or a timer.
I also was always a bit concerned about these high temperatures. They can wear down batteries pretty quickly. But I made up my mind recently - the charging time is very short compared to the overall time where the car is not charging and the battery is at lower temperatures. So it's probabaly no problem at all.
It's better to have a hot battery during fast charging to minimise stress (lithium plating) in the battery.
What's bad for a battery is high temperature -over time-, so in a hot desert climate for example.
ID4 77kWh battery with 3.0 software is faster than ID5 GTX you should also test that (5%-80%)
*kWh
@@bjornnyland Kwh/h❤
Yes, i am also very impressed with Id4/eniyaq with 3.0 software. Average is around 120kW 5-80%, massive improvement.
This looks good for the upcoming ID 7
Looks like the IDBuzz is limited by the 500A limit of the charger?
Korrekt
Buzz buffer?
Nice video, I would love to have seen the Model Y Performance (recent one) to compare. Seems that chargers faster for longer.
Comparing temperatures between completely different battery manufacturers is not necessarily accurate because you don’t know where the temperature sensors are. Location of the various temp sensors can make a massive difference in the reading, especially since the battery cases aren’t thermally insulated. The battery manufacturers know this information and can calibrate for it, we do not.
Wow didn‘t think it’s so much better than Tesla! Even though Tesla battery starts at destructive 50 degrees vs VW 27 degrees. Wished Dr. Musklicker wouldn’t lick so much musky Musk.
I am wondering if other MEB 77/82 kwh will also get the same curve. Or is it really just for ID Buzz? :)
I think they either improved the battery or just accepted a higher wear to satisfy the customer of this pretty expensive and thirsty vehicle.
Different voltage ⚡ indicates different battery.
@@jkev1425 they show both ~401.5V@94%
Pretty nice for a 400V system! Maybe these are the same type of cells, but specifically selected and matched for the buzz?
Definitely nice.
It is hard to do better with 400v layout since the 500 amp max. current of the ccs 2 limits the peak.
To do better a ~500v system would be needed like BMW... or more amps like Tesla does but I guess it is not feasible.
as always said, its nothing about the voltage system. Even on 800V configuration, vw buzz, gtx or m3p would NOT charge faster. Its only limitation is chemistry and the charging station, not the voltage. In an ideal world a charging session would be 180kW from 0% to 200kW @ 100%.
@@freestymc 🤪🤪
@@freestymc whatever chemistry will be introduced, a power reduction at high state of charge is needed not to kill the battery. Super flat curve like fat e-tron needs a massive buffer to be used...I don't see it as a great deal. As this video shows, anyways, having a 250kW peak is not fundamental to charge fast.
@@gabrielecomensoli2787 It's totally feasible. If as you say the current limit is 500A for CCS 2, an automaker simply needs to not directly charge the batteries, and instead use a DC-DC step-down converter, or the motor inverter, to work around the current limits of the CCS 2 charge standard. The Taycan did exactly this, with an additional DC-DC boost converter for its 800V system for when it visits 400V DCFC stations.
I am just going trough some of my recorded 250kw sessions with model 3 I have had some slightly better curves, brb. :D
posted only one. here's another try. Now I didn't do it as a test so I don't have as good a data sample:
Soc Braak 24/08/2022 * Braak 02/07/2022
24/8/2022 2/7/2022
10 250
15 250
20 250 250
25 220 216
30 200 180
35 180 164
40 150 148
45 130 127
50 115 110
55 102 94
60 93 83
65 83 76
70 71 67
75 66 60
80 56 53
85 46
90
95
100
Looks Like the cooling Management is a little better than id5. I want the id buzz but with glas roof and high Speed of at least 180. Dont Care about the massive increase of consumption, only for overtaking at the Autobahn i need the speed :D i am a field service engineer and i need to get a lot of Tools and spare parts with me.
VW for the win (but get rid of the Infotainment system, i can not recommend it, i am driving fossil golf 8 variant)
what's the ambient temp for each charge? the Tesla mean cell temp is 60% hotter than VWs
It actually shows in the graphics. ID Buzz: 16,5°C || ID.5: 21°C || Model 3: 12,5°C
@@ctrettin so the Model 3 had the better conditions to avoid overheating and it was the worst managing the high temperature.
@@ctrettin ok cool thx, i missed that, was completely distracted by the drastic difference in mean temp. looks like tesla needs some work
"Wow! I don't know what else to say". And keeps talking for 3 minutes straight. Just kidding, Bjørn. I love your channel. Keep up the good work!
ID 5 with battery Heating ON
nice comparison, thanks for such in-depth testing^^
Next time you do it on cars like the ID family you could compare real SOC. Its a little bit skewed to compare display SOC for the ID cars to SOC on Tesla since tesla doesnt really "lie" to its user about SOC to get a top buffer.
ID 5 vs. model 3 is much much closer if you compare real SOC to real SOC
But massive thanks for doing all the hard work ^^
Look at SoC BMS then.
M3 cell temp was too high
And converted to charged km the Tesla wins anyway.
As it is a VW...i guess another scandal is comming ;-)
Crap. I would sell immediately the car (and think to the poor buyer)
When you can find a super charger that works.
Supercharger are extremely reliable.
That's impressive. I feel that the legacy industry is catching Tesla faster than i would have thought, and maybe faster than Tesla them self thought. I dont know the Tesla roadmap other that all the wapor ware shit..
That was hilarious drivel. Tesla in 2019 gave a model 3 to c&d who HATES tesla and they got 190 miles of range back in 18mins.
Then they tested a recent plaid and got 184miles back in just 15mins.
So tesla for over 3 years now has been capable of 250kwhs charging, and getting back 180-200miles of range in 15-20mins.
So If anything legacy is just now catching up to where tesla was back in 2019 with the model 3 and a v3sc. 👍🏻
@@4literv6 what?