VW ID7 Pro 82 kWh charging test vs Tesla, Audi, Hyundai, BMW and Polestar
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มี.ค. 2024
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This content is one of the things why you are the one you are in the eMobility sector. Data is king. No marketing noch catalogue values just data! Awesome thanks!
Specially because this is independent data, not manufacturers hopes and dreams which could happen once a year. Björn's data can be trusted.
even more powerful are the 1000 km challanges, this is what really counts in the real world - how long does it take to go from A to B.
BZ4X quietly cries in the corner
😂😂😂
Toyota's CEO just said in an interview, that they'd rather buy EPA carbon emission credits, than waste money on BEVs.
I guess if the alternative is something shitty like the bz4x, he may be right. 🤣
Uuuuuuh, that hurts!
Why?
BZ4X will get to 100% by the morning. Or at least to 50% by then. :)
15:11 - The 800V is very useful on longer journeys. The system has it's perks, one of it being less usage of cables (or rather thinner cables) that are needed to wire up everything in the car (which cuts off some unwanted weight), but also it would mean thinner cables required to build the chargers.
In an Ioniq 6, by the time you're done charging to 80% at the fast-charger, an ID.7 driver would still need around 7 more minutes to get the better range in order to cover the next leg.
To 100% you might charge at home, where it doesn't make any difference whether you have 800V vs. 400V architecture.
So far, the ID.7 charging curve is indeed better than in most cars that have 400V architecture batteries and I think this would make VW great again in the future. They still need however to fix their degradation rates, because many people that would like to get a car from VAG group fear the fast decaying of the batteries, and I think this is not applicable to VWs.
In general, looking at the degradation rates on 400V architecture compared to the 800V architecture, the later has a substantially lower degradation rate. There are two persons, driving both Ioniqs (5 and 6) which after 120,000 km already they clocked 1.47% degradation (Ioniq 5) and 1.52% (Ioniq 6) here in Switzerland, whereas people in 400V-architecture VW are already going past 10% degradation rates even before hitting the 100,000 km mark.
Another weird thing is that my friend's Kona, that clocked over 180,000 km calculated 0.7% degradation on the 64 kWh battery (pre-facelifted model with the 10" infotainment screen), but that is mainly because the car can't pass the 200A limit that the battery has, or because in many cases, because it lacks the preconditioning logic, the battery barely gets warm enough to receive the max. power, otherwise, it will hover at around 140-150A.
In the end, I really like that VW are slowly learning, either from mistakes, either from competition, how to make better cars again.
Well Ioniq6 reached 80% in 19 minutes and id7 in 26 minutes, so I would say 800V has a huge difference in percentage…. About 30-40% faster charging time to 80%.
Agree. The whole point with fast charging is that it should be fast, and 80% target is optimal for a number of reasons. All the other cars were also very close at 80%.
All of these cars were done fast charging after 20-25 minutes. Beyond that point it's just blocking a charger and wasting time. The difference between them is how much of the battery is usable for fast charging.
Although the Ioniq is 77kwh only.
@@FranciscoNogueira I bet you it has more usable energy than the id7…..
Edit
According to Björn
Id7 useable 75,5kwh
Ioniq 6 75,1kwh
So no not much difference!
@@macki5542 I would bet that Bjorn wouldn't make such a noob mistake of showing the wrong usable capacities.
Felt like a horse race with your commentary 😂 this was proper exciting
„The Korean Siesta“ is great😂,… VW has optimized the 400V system in an impressive way… if you compare this with the „Premium“ i5 for much more it seems BMW do not want to optimize the 400V system and waits for the introduction of the so called „New Class“ with 800V architecture
Who would have EVER thought that watching six EVs' charging speeds could be this exciting?!!! Listening to Bjørn describe this is like listening to Andrés Cantor comment on a world cup soccer game! 🤣
Holy Macaroni! I really think you need to be calling sports games, very entertaining!
Thank you so much for this video. As a road trip guy, the only race I worry about is to 80%. Clear winner are the folks from Korea.
Superb content as always.
May I suggest that you add the kWh added and the range (@90kmh). It would be very interesting to see how much range you can add in a certain time period.
Maybe cars can charge quick but if they are inefficiently use the power then charging time might be misleading.
Just a thought.
Hi Bjorn, I enjoy your detailed test procedures. How do you get the car data for the charging curve (e.g. OBD+ABRP with Premium)?
I‘ll try this for my EV6 LR RWD.
Thanks from Germany
Stefan
which model y is having 82kwh battery?
I would really want to know/see what happend ro the speed of the iomiq 6 when connected to 400v charger. Any one?
Wacky Races anno 2024
Surprisingly entertaining for something this informative.
How fast can a battery charge without taking damage?
Considering the Ionity network is the charging face of VAG and most of their batteries at 400v seems silly. Surprised the model y was slow as well. Would you be able to log battery temp and outside temp too please in the future as this has a big bearing on the start and shows what the cars bms is like?
it looks like ID.7 is 1st EV car which can be able to be my next company car. I didnt expect that before
The Remontada there is one of the best I've witnessed :D
The pack as a whole stays much cooler as a whole, and therefore, the individual cells are easier to cool down as their sorroundings is much cooler. It's all about heat. Individual cells will soon be heated from the inside as well, which will soon after enable less that 10 minutes 0 to 80% SoC charging. And eventually less than 5 minutes.
After having an 800V EV6 GT I can’t ever go back to a 400V. My EV6 GT when preconditioned will pull 240kW from 10-50% and averages 186kW from 10-80%. You cannot beat that with almost any other car. Even to 90% and beyond it is so fast.
Cool!👍
That wonderful 800V architecture, well right now it doesn't have an advantage because it only takes 150 Amps.... (psst... ancient Korean secret: That's the whole point of higher Voltages!)
As far as I could see, model y still charged 11 kw at 100%, but Q4 did not, therefore the second place should go to Q4
8:12 so i4 must have the same curve like i5, right?
No
Ok, thought because of the same battery size, didn't expect that i4 is faster than i5 - thank you for your meticulous work. Just found the attached files with all data of the cars. 🙌
Thanks. Very exciting. But next time please ad a stopwatch time during charging process. And in the diagram also a timeline instead of SOC on the x-axis would be helpful.
No need to. Look at Ionity screen. There's a timer there already.
So many Tesla fanboys 2 years ago saying, oh the competition won't catch up for 5-10 yrs!! Uh NO.
This is till true. Check the financials. No one can match Tesla without losing a ton of money. Only Ford splits their EV business so you get inside. If others would do the same you would see the 5 years again. Building technologies (or buying it at tier 1 etc) it not the hardest part of the equation.
And the model 3 came out with 2017, we have 7 years later...
@@jkev1425 technically the OEMs have already matched Tesla. The head start and advantage Tesla has is the huge investment money they got from carbon credits and govt rebates. These built Tesla and pad their profit margins massively.
@@kevinn1158 And the goverment subsidizes ice makers in other ways soo
@@kevinn1158 You realise the first model S was delivered in 2012, more than 10 years ago? So yes, it did take the competition 10 years to catch up.
@@joshbridges8410 once the OEMs decided to compete in the full EV space seriously it didn’t take them long. In fact I’d say Hyundai, Kia, Porsche and soon BMW will have more advanced tech. And people 2 yrs ago were still saying oh Tesla is so far ahead still.
What I don't understand is why 800 V architecture charges faster. I know the Ohm's law of course, but the limiting factor is imho not current on pack or module level, but cell level. And here the current should be the same in 800 V and 400 V, isn't it? In other words: the C-rating should be the same with the same power, independent of the module voltage magnitude. Has anyone insights into this?
Maybe overall the selfheating loss by higher current dominates at lower voltages, since it goes with I^2.
@@heiko3048Good point, but should only be valid for the pack and modules, but not for the cells as far as I know.
@@belaw2983 might be, but somewhere there is a high current, meaning higher losses. If not on cell level than in the periphery.
Who cares how fast they get to a certain percentage, what matters is range added over time.
All of those cars have excellent charing curves. 30 min to get another 250km of range is plenty. Tesla coulf probably reach better charging times if they would skip the stupid 250kW peak in the beginning in favor of a longer period of >150kW. No one charges for 5 min, so the speed in these times is irelelvant. Even if you only go shopping or drink a coffe, you'll spend more like 15-20 min. The OEMs should aim ge get as much charge as possible in the car over this timespan, rather than flashy peak numbers
Nitpicking a bit here, but Tesla has no top buffer, when you charge to 100% it’s 100%, where as the MEB cars has a top buffer, as can be seen in the difference between “SoC display” and “SoC BMS”, so when ID.7 says it’s at 80%, the real SoC is actually 78%.
It doesn’t change the outcome (much), but towards the end, the SoC on the ID.7 is 96% (displayed 100%) and the Model Y is actually at 96% as well, so you could argue they charge equally fast to 100%.
As i started out, I’m nitpicking :)
Yet another example of how Tesla has gone from being 5 years ahead of competitors to 2 years behind in many areas.
Remember the Y is now a three year old platform, a platform derived from the model 3 which is now nearly 7 years old. They needed a proper update, and not the highland facelift. It would be interesting to see if the highland has a different charging curve to the Y tested here.
When will you get the new Taycan for testing? :P
Depends on Porsche.
So are some of these cars degrading with their aggressive 2C+ charging or is it the inverse and the Tesla brand is being conservative with its charging curve?
Well i 5 chaged 78,6 kWh While Q4 charged 74,1 kWh. Even if they reach 100% a few minutes before, you should consider the charge too.
No, that's what the *charger* delivered. What goes into the battery after battery heating, cooling, losses, etc is something different.
According to CM's video Q4 e-tron FL is even faster than ID7
Who is cm
Car maniac
Can you Sir please also compere the Energy delivered and 90 test kilometers delivered in the charging curve.Thank you again
Nerds at Work 😎😎
A very interesting reference to this race - If you compare the time it took to a certain energy level (like 70kWh charged) which in the end is what matters...The Nissan Ariya with "only" 130kW peak charging beat the Q4-etron, Polestar and was Equal with the i5 and just slightly after the ID7 (ref: th-cam.com/video/-2-_NrXTtOg/w-d-xo.html). ---> Again peak charging power that is used in marketing is not what matters during long trips. On top of that you pay more due to increaed charging losses.
Björn please edit a charging test from the li auto mega with the new CATL battery. Just take the fastest cars you have tested and compare it to the Mega. This is interesting because Volvo and Polestar will get these in the future.😊
Pretty good charger as it can reach a peak value of 509 amps when the maximum CCS is 500 amps.
there is no hard 500A limit in CCS
Nice. Makes you wonder how the large battery will fare.
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Honestly speaking: who cares Charging Speed in terms of energy /time - charging speed in terms of km/time is the only relevant measure. You just want to know when it’s save to drive to your next stop…
My Bolt is so terrible...
👍💪✌
Watched this in 0,75 speed.
I'm too fast 2 furious.
Li Mega: "Hold my beer"
+100 kWh battery, 10-80% in UNDER 10min 40sec, 800v architecture, over 500 kW top charging speed, no rapidgate/siesta, still amazingly 300 kW at 80% Volkswagen go home 😜
Could 800v architecture be the future after all…?
th-cam.com/video/kjs-TPmDbEM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2CJG2_YJzspyFOjd
They are so close all through in charge.
In some way it seems that the whole industry is very close now. So in reality it doesn't matter which car you choose from a charging speed perspective.
But those that cannot preheat battery will of course be out.
These are very slow actually. In China all new zeekr models charge with over 500kW. So does the new xiaomi as well and the Li auto Mega. These cars will do 10-80% in less than 12min.🤔
@@Lucas-wp2phBut how long will the batteries last? As far as I know china does not have access to any radically different battery technologies.
Tesla need some battery upgrades, they are getting behind in terms of charging speed. Hopping that at the end of the year they will introduce the new M3P batteries from CATL.
To support the V4 superchargers up to 350kw, Tesla will upgrade the charging speeds. If this will be with current models or newer refreshed models nobody knows yet
@@TheEdmaster87 Even the V3 superchargers are not used at their full potential with current software/hardware battery technology. The full power of 250kWh is not maintained for not even 1 minute and quickly drops. If they can manage to maintain the 250kWh speed until 40% and start to drops more linear and keep it over 100kWh until 80% that will make a huge difference in changing speed.
@@xXxM4nuxXxYes perhaps, but maybe the battery pack is not designed for that or Tesla is trying to make the battery last longer this way, otherwise they would have to replace a lot of packs put there if many customers are re-charging often at superchargers. But I do hope the new cells will improve both the range and the speed. Maybe then the can upgrade the software to allow for faster charger for longer.
@@TheEdmaster87 I suspect it is because Tesla uses such small hard buffers and instead manages degradation with a large soft buffer under 0% because that allows them to show a high EPA range. So better charging speeds may need to come at the expense of range. But I suspect like with most things, all Tesla cares about is what helps to sell cars not the long-term customer experience and so the headline charge rate is what is important not the average 10-80 speed which is frankly pathetic in todays competitive market
Tesla rutscht immer weiter zurück beim Laden…
I don’t think they can’t make it charge faster, it’s just that for battery health long term it’s not good?
Eigentlich nicht. Die LG Batterie ist halt scheiße. Die von BYD hat hier den Ioniq 6 besiegt und die Panasonic Batterie ist mindestens 5 Minuten schneller bis 80%. Wir kriegen in Europa im LR nur leider den schlechteren Akku.
Cherry picking data for the win.
To close to be relevant
looks like hyundai batteries are going to die faster if people primarily charge it via DC… goodluck to hyundai owners i guess
people were saying the same about the Hyundai Ioniq electric with 28kWh from 2016 and after 8 years it turns out it was no problem, they are still going strong and charging like new.
@@zocker1600 Ioniq 28 was only slightly over 2C and different chemistry.
@@petyapyatochkin9630
correct me if I am wrong, but classic IONIC charges at 75kW peak, making it ~2.6C.
The IONIC 6 peaks at 220kW, making it ~2.8C.
Given that there are almost 8 years of battery enhancements / progress between the two, I don't see a problem here.
Furthermore the IONIC 6 has active thermal management, which the classic IONIC does not, so I don't see a reason why that battery would die any faster than the one from the old IONIC.
@@zocker1600 Classic Ioniq has 86Ah gross capacity battery, and takes 172-173A into the battery, that makes it about 2C. Speaking of thermal management, Ioniq has it as well, not liquid yes, but still.
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