When I purchased my Bobcat Years ago I noticed in the manual That Beretta recommended the Use of " standard" velocity ammo. I called Beretta and spoke to one Of their tech guys. He said that The threshold for the pistol was In the neighborhood of 1300 FPS. He said I could expect any Number of problems using the Stingers including breakage. Sooo......... No Stingers!!!!.
All steak and no sizzle. Love it. Straightforward results and a logical conclusion. This is the difference between a firearms reviewer and a firearms presenter. THANK YOU.
@@mixup98 take a 1/16th inch drill bit drive out the hollow point I've had 22 fold back looking like a mushroom without stem when I shot them into sand where as the standard hollow did nothing in sand too. I've really hogged out the hole in 22 in past and it's very effective on good standard ammo. I have even made hollows from regular bullet. Sand the tip lightly to create a flat spot try you best to get bit in center and drill away. You should try some playing around with them. I've even taken some bullets apart and added extra powder I fractured a few shells upon ejection 🤣 straight crack from top to bottom of casing😆
@@spankthemonkey3437 I was drilling out .22 bullets over forty years ago but I stopped doing it when one of the cartridges exploded. Fortunately I was holding it in a clamp when it exploded and I wasn't injured. The bullet started spinning when I drilled into it, causing excessive heat which ignited the gun powder. I would strongly suggest that you stop drilling out your .22 ammo.
@@mixup98 yea I stopped that when I was 16 or 17 now I'm 39 but, when I did it I did it all by hand twisting the bit with two fingers while holding the bullet with other hand. I did use caution but it's a wonder I didn't blow up my stepdads old semi auto .22 when I double the powder🤣
@spankthemonkey3437 I have a 92fs Inox and I was at the indoor range and I was shooting reloads and a fucking bullet blew up when I squeezed.. I don't know if I had to much oil on my slide and barrel but that's never happened to me.. I think it was the reloads I usually buy blazzer amm or whatever ammo they have in a box but all they had were reloads.. I might go to the gun store and buy some before I go next month
I am old LEO, I like Stingers for rifle or revolver but I have observed that the hyper velocity makes the slide function a little too fast that's why it keeps catching the empty. You, Paul Harrell, and Hickok45 are my go to channels when I'm thinking about do something with firearms. Years of GREAT CONTENT Thank You
I am a retired LEO myself (31 years) and I got a fairly early 21-A, with a s/n of just 169XX. Doing the annual firearms courses I found the best round for me is the CCI mini mag 40 grain copper plated RN. I can’t remember the last time I had a fail to feed, fire or eject. The HP rounds really don’t expand with the velocity of the short barrels. I’m even shooting some older rounds going back about 15 years on them and they have had no problems. I carried it for years as a backup in my pants or coat pocket. Try a box or 2 one day on the range and see what yours will handle them.
The overall cartridge is the same size, but the case is longer on the stingers (And a federal punch 22lr for that matter) This leads to failures to extract in semi autos more often.
There are a few things to note here: the CCI Stinger is technically NOT a 22 LR. The length of the case is considered 22 XLR but the shorter bullet gives the overall cartridge length of a 22 LR. This difference is irrelevant for manually cycled firearms such as revolvers, lever action, and bolt action, but the extra millimeters on the spent casing can be problematic for autoloaders with tight tolerances. The Ruger 10/22 typically has problems with Stingers. A mouse gun like a Bobcat would be no different. I am surprised that it worked as well as it did. As for not expanding, those bullets are designed for rifles. This is why the Federal Punch is a flat point, although, ironically enough, that too is using the Stinger XLR case. You should expect the same cycling problems with the Punch as the Stinger.
Also the slide/bolt velocity is faster than standard velocity ammunition. Slide/bolt moving faster less time for the magazine spring to overcome the downward bounce it receives as the slide/bolt travels rearward. I had those issues with a an AR-7 and an old Mossberg. They would function with standard velocity ammo all day long, but put high velocity ammo in, and it would start to have FTF's.
I don't have any problems with stingers in my 10/22 when I use the 10 round magazines but the 25 round magazines are problematic. In my Beretta, minimags are almost flawless but stingers are just a wast of time/money.
@@greylocke100 Is your AR-7 a Charter Arms? Mine is and it is pretty finicky with everything, be it a Stinger with the longer case or any regular old 22lr ammo. Runs best when well oiled and clean.
You should give the velocitors a try, they will pressurize better being 40 grain bullets like the mini mags. The stinger case is a little longer than a standard 22lr case. That was probably the stove piping issue.
My '90s manufactured Beretta 21 bobcat 22 long rifle works fantastic with Remington yellow jacket and viper conical shaped bullets.. not one failure to feed not one jam
Just curious, with a CCI stinger.22 ammo, wouldn't that higher powder ignition damage the slide compared to standard ammo? I don't have a berreta bobcat, just a ruger LCR.22 revolver, this shoots anything.22 , but curious of the bobcat.
Agreed. I fired a variety of CCI, Federal and Remington through mine with a factory mag and a random aftermarket and was quite dissapointed. Lots of fails. I read Meg-gar did better in the 21A and ordered four magazines off eBay. Sent all 42 rounds out of those downrange with no issue last weekend. I have only sent 42 rounds though. So my testing is far from complete. Waiting for cooler weather to continue.
@@twilheit8483 what problems were you having ? Mine keeps failing to eject the bullet out I haven’t tried cci but Remington and federal won’t work in mine
@xbervalot2089 My solution has been to switch to Mec-Gar magazines. Only one small fail after running through all four of mine twice. Ammo choice seems to matter a lot less now... so far.
The stinger was designed for an 18 inch rifle so it can burn to the end of the barrel. You will not get the blowback out of a pistol Yellow jackets by Remington are for a pistol. It's that simple
the worst butt whipping I ever got was over one of these, back in the 60's when I was 7 or 8, my dad had a little Beretta like this , him a friend of his and I went target shooting. After knocking down everything, my father handed me the pistol to hold while they went to set the targets back up. when they headed back, I was pointing the pistol down range toward them. after that day I never pointed a gun at anything I wasn't going to shoot
Thanks for the video and second review. Past 21A pistols I have owned worked great. I traded them away, missed the pistols, and later decided to get a new inox version to support the new TN Beretta manufacturing plant near me. I tried Golden Bullets, CCI of differing types, Winchester, TAC22 and a few others. Ammo stated velocities were from 1070 to the higher Stinger 1640 I think it was. All of it was trying to limber the pistol up a little. I even ordered a second OEM magazine from Beretta thinking that would help. I had poor results from all of them. My stainless Bobcat was very stiff and suffered a failure in almost every magazine I shot. I cleaned and lubed it many many times. I gave up after about a 1K rounds. I am a big Beretta firearm fan. Berettas are normally known for reliability. This one was a disappointment. The failures I experienced were almost identical to the failures you demonstrated, just more numerous. I am not sure the reason for it. Maybe I will try another one some day. I thought about sending it back, but it's not an expensive pistol. I didn't think the techs would put it through the paces enough to do much about it. We'll give it another try when I get over it :)
Been having the same issues. Polished the feed ramp and chamber and nothing. I'm thinking about cutting a couple coils off each side of the recoil spring. Hoping that makes a difference
I looked up Beretta USA Tennessee Google reviews and they have many one star ratings. Many new manufacturing facilities struggle with quality control. Sounds like Beretta's doing their Beta testing at your expense. Send the gun back. My bobcat is flawless except for bad ammo every so often. It must be free of defects to function properly. Mine works best with CCI fmj, hp. Remington golden is ok ammo but cheaper than CCI. The barrel should be swabed at least every 50 rounds.
Mine was hanging up on almost every magazineful, until I polished the feed ramp and the adjacent chamber mouth lips, and it doesn’t hang up anymore, at least with high velocity round nose ammo.
Kinda funny, because Stingers are one of those rounds that work in like Every gun, esp guns that are finicky with other ammo. I know people with problem 22lr's and they're almost always fixed when the person shoots Stingers out of them. (A must have for a new gun that needs to be broken in). A family member had a problem with her Buckmark and then got these which broke in the Buckmark and now it functions perfect with all ammo (after about 500 Stingers through it).
This is a problem I never was aware of, as the 21A that I bought in the late 1980s worked fine with Stingers or anything else I ran through it, with no malfunctions, period, so I'm grateful that this video has called it to my attention. I wish I still had my old one, but it was stolen. I've heard a lot of complaints about the quality and reliability of Berettas made in the Tennessee factory, and the tip-up barrel models from there in particular, and not just with Stingers. I don't know if their US operation is now a garbage company, or maybe it's just a case of everybody being a fierce critic if they can hide behind a keyboard. If there actually is a decline in quality, they moved there in 2016, and you'd think seven years would be long enough to work out any problems they might be having as a result of being in a new facility with a mix of old and new personnel having to get used to working together. Whatever the deal is, I'm probably not buying any more US-made Berettas until these complaints become a bit fewer and farther between.
Thanks @mixup98. I’m still thinking, as Beretta have indicated in the manual, there is not enough time for the ejection of the spent cases when using higher velocity ammunition. The slide of the Beretta barely clears the magazine under normal operating conditions, and the pressure of high velocity ammunition increases the slide velocity reducing the time that the case has for it to be ejected. Sometimes slower is better.
That's the beauty of the .22 rimfire. If one load doesn't work out there are many others that will. I will add that the Beretta has pretty stiff recoil springs and will work better with the 40 gr. bullets.
I have had my Beretta 21A for 30 years and have good results with CCI mini mag round nose. Hollow points always seem to hang up in it despite the brand.
We have a Beretta Bobcat and like it very much. It's very accurate, even at a longer distances, is easy to load, shoot and maintain. It's also been a great tool for training new shooters
I have a Ruger LCP II in .22 caliber. CCI Stingers and Mini mags feed well through it but we did have a few hiccups. After some thorough testing we discovered a bad magazine was the problem. Since then, no problems with either round. Most 22's can be ammo specific, I have found.
Hey Southern Nevada, You have become my go-to review guy. I enjoy your commentary and no-nonsense talk. Plus I always enjoy the father & son adventures
Great illustration! I’ve lost count of the number of times that people have told me: “I love it but this baby is So expensive to shoot!”. 9 times out of 10, they’ve bought the most expensive defensive or high velocity rounds available. We know that auto pistols often have dietary preferences and hollow point terminal ballistics can be a finicky thing.
I've been contemplating purchasing a Beretta 21A Bobcat and have watched several reviews of this little pistol. This one has been the most useful. Good work, thanks for your efforts.
I have heard from another owner who had warranty work done on his 21a that Beretta themselves do not recommend using the CCI Stinger in the 21a. Apparently it slowly beats the little pistols to pieces.
I have had a Tom Cat .32 for years. Most accurate pocket popper I own. That Bob Cat, I want one! I really appreciate your real world testing of various firearms.
Good morning Larry. I would love to own a Tom Cat someday and I'll make a video with it if I get one. Thanks for the nice comment and I also thank you for being a four year subscriber to my channel.
I have owned a Beretta 21-A Bobcat not too long after they began making them. I have a S/N of only 169XX. I carried it for years as my backup or for suit and tie or tuxedo events when anything bigger than a mouse gun would be noticed. Early on I tried quite a few .22 rounds from different makers. I found the CCI mini mag 40 grain copper plated RN round to be a very, very reliable round. In fact it has been so long since I had a fail to feed, eject or fire that I can’t remember when it was. I keep my pistol clean and use Remington Dry Lube on it so it doesn’t pickup much pocket lint. I have qualified with it out to the 25 yard line in annual firearms qualifications. Try a box of 100 and drop me a reply on how you made out.
my browning buckmark 22 my 40 grain velocitors are the only ones that hang up once in a while even on well lubed and clean gun, they give me about 117 ft/lbs at 1150 fps no bad out of a 5.5 inch barrel its closing in on 32 acp energy for that round, some 22 rifles or even pistols the stinger because of longer case may cause case to engage the rifling when only lead of the bullet is supposed to, this is because some chambers are cut for only 22 lr length when a stinger has extra case length and case may be pushing it into the first part of lands and groves being its longer then a 22 lr
CCI was the only ammo the misfired for me until this last box of Federal Match something or other from Walmart. Remington Thunderbolt is super reliable and plenty of snap for my Beretta 92.
I’ve had a bobcat for more than 30 years. With mine, it really loves the Stingers. I also worked at a gun shop and shooting range, so I have seen plenty of these in use. We consistently had failures when customers used Walmart ammo. Each time, the stingers dramatically improved the performance and reliability of the weapon. I loved your review, but was certainly surprised by the results.
Beretta must have made some changes to the Bobcat since yours was produced. Maybe different recoil springs or perhaps a redesigned slide could be the reason mine doesn't like Stinger ammo.
@@mixup98 I got curious about my Bobcat after your reply. It is not an exaggeration to say that I have run many hundreds of Stingers through my bobcat. But, like I said I got curious, so the other day I went to the range and got a box of Stingers. It was a total disaster. Multiple failures, and the biggest surprise was that they repeatedly hung in the magazine. While I might buy the idea that my bobcat was just worn out, i seriously doubt that my magazines are smaller than they used to be. I have to suspect that the Stingers available today are slightly bigger than what I was using and selling back in the 90's. Kudos to your review, and the minimags functioned perfectly. Aquila also gave me some trouble with misfires. This demonstrates the necessity of knowing more than the weapon itself, knowing the ammo is a must!
@@baldguybasics7584 Apparently something has changed over the years with Stinger ammo. I would guess that CCI probably switched to a different type of gunpowder therefore effecting the timing and speed of the slide. Anyways, thanks for the feedback on shooting Stinger ammo through your Bobcat.
I have the Taurus PT22 which is the polymer version of that gun. The Taurus,(same as the Beretta) recommends standard velocity ammo only. They are fun to test your marksmanship with but don't believe I would carry except for backup gun. Not reliable enough, but better than a sharp stick! Nice video!
Really like your new intro and that Beretta Bobcat. I was surprised at the penatration of the .22 Long rifle out of such a short barrel. Of course the Stinger is not the same round as it used to be back in the 80's. I have an old pack maybe 35/40 years old? The bullet is a real jacketed hollow point compared to todays copper plated lead hollow points.
I purchased my Beretta 21-A Bobcat way back in 1989 and I used to use nothing but CCI Stinger's, and I never once had a failure to feed or eject. And long as the round went off it cycled 100% of the time. Now, having said that, I did have one problem, I was at the range and I had fired off almost a 50 rnd box of Stinger's when all of a sudden it stopped working. It had cycled and it had a new round in the chamber but there was no firing pin indentation. I cleared the pistol and checked it out, and after I had fired the last round, it also blew the spring and firing pin out the back of the pistol. I contacted Beretta for return shipping information and I sent it back by UPS. Beretta repaired it for free and returned it fairly quickly and it looked great. I then called and spoke with a representative in customer service to discuss what had happened, and he said that Stinger's should only be used occasionally and not a regular standard load as it beats the little pistol up. So I only shoot standard velocity ammo now and no more problems. I just wanted to pass this along , hoping that it will save someone some aggravation . Thank you for all of your informative and well done videos, I really appreciate them.
I have a Bobcat and Ruger 10/22 and the Stinger does not feed in either firearm. The CCI Mini-Mag has been flawless in both of my guns so I will be sticking with the Mini-Mag. I must say the Bobcat is an awesome pocket pistol with the correct ammo. Thanks for doing this video. Wish I had seen it sooner as I bought Stingers which I can now only use for single shot firing or bartering.
The CCI Stinger has a slower burning powder. It's made for longer barrel to get the higher velocity. If you shoot Stinger in a short barrel you don't get the higher velocity. It will cycle perfect in my .22lr target pistols. Never will use it in a 21A.
i had a beretta 21a for 20+ years that i could never get to run reliably. after a gunsmith worked on it, i just couldn’t regain confidence in it for any use other than a range toy. away it went and the funds went towards a wonderful ruger sr22, bigger but way better. on the other hand a taurus clone pt25 poly chambered in 25acp works great.
These little Bobcats are sure pretty! I haven't ever fired one, but my gun store has them & I've often checked them out. The only ones I've handled are all brand new, and have very, very stiff springs; I had to pull the hammer back before pulling the slide back, it seemed like the slide was glued on at first! These aren't guns I'd ever carry (except maybe as an ankle carry backup) but they always make me think of James Bond, back when Bond was suave, debonair, and deadly with the ladies as well as the bad guys! Thanks for another great vid!
Hello Denis. I agree, the slide is very hard to pull back but fortunately the flip up barrel makes loading very easy. A reliable Bobcat does make for a very good backup pistol, and I do occasionally carry mine with Remington ammo.
@@mixup98 It did look fun to shoot, and yeah- with reliable ammo, it'd be a fine backup pistol! The Stinger just wasn't right for that little gun, though, as you proved!
I still have not forgiven an ex-brother-in-law for trading a pristine, fully functional, S&W 1917 .45ACP revolver, a dozen full moon clips, and two boxes of 230grn FMJ rounds for a Beretta Bobcat and two bricks of Remington ammo. Forty plus years after the fact it still ticks me off. Loved the video, as usual, but just seeing a Bobcat makes me mad all over again. Keep the great videos comin'!!!
On a side note, if you have a North American Arms .22 Magnum mini revolver, don't use Hornady VMax or similar ammo in it. It'll make the cylinder bind and jam. I thought there was a problem with mine because that's what happened right after I got it. I called NAA and they said it would work fine with regular ammo like the CCI Maxi Mag stuff. And they were right. Just a heads-up.
I have had issues with cci mini mag and stingers not ejecting from my ruger 10/22 CARBINE. All other ammo feeds fine. But I have a Rossi auto 22lr rifle and the only ammo that cycles is cci. It's all in the the thickness of the rim. It's a difference in the gap of the extractor pin. CCI have thick rims. Also the stinger has a longer cartridge. I think that is what causes it to stick on ejection in the bobcat
I haven't tried the stingers but the federal punch was not a reliable load for it. I think its possible the lighter weight bullets is a factor and possibly the case length. I will just stick with the high velocity loads I've already tried successfully. Armscor, Aguila, Cci mini mags. I've not done any others yet. Frankly the Stingers would present little advantage out of the short bbl. I wish the punch would have fed well since they are designed for the short bbl. Great job brother! Great review God bless all here.
Hi, Mixup. I have a 22 LR Bobcat, too, in the black (blue?) persuasion. It used to hang up a lot even with round nose ammo. A few days ago I decided to polish the feed ramp to an almost mirror like finish, and lo and behold! stoppages ceased, at least with round nose ammo. I also slightly polished both sides of the chamber mouth, right adjacent to the feed ramp, since I noticed that when cycling the action by hand with a loaded magazine, rounds sometimes -many times!- tended to slightly veer off to either side when entering the chamber mouth, which used to be a little sharp. Again, hang ups have stopped, at least with round nose bullets. In my limited experience, pistols are more prone to malfunction when loaded with higher-than-normal-velocity ammunition, both rimfire and centerfire, and I suspect it is due to the magazines not being calibrated to the increased slide velocities generated by hotter ammo. Perhaps stretching the magazine spring, or changing it for a stiffer one, might solve the problem. I’ll let you know the results if I get around to performing this test. Thank you for your great videos.
Hello Francisco. Sometimes a pistol just needs a little polishing and I'm glad you got yours working smoothly. I had to do some polishing on a Taurus Spectrum 380 to get it to feed reliably. And I think you are right about some magazines not being calibrated for increased slide velocity, which is probably part of the problem when using Stinger ammo in the Bobcat.
Mine ran stingers flawless in all three magazines when I bought it last year. I tried it again today. All three mags ran flawless again. I did get a jam because of user error today. I stuck 8 rounds in my 7 round magazine and it binded tipping #6, #7, and #8 in the magazine. I removed #8 and it still had my ammo below tipped down. So my fault. I did remove all three plastic feed ramps, lightly danced burrs, sprayed dry graphite on the plastic followers, and re assembled. I also lubed my slide and frame with synthetic lube. Ran 5 types of ammo through my gun today after the magazine cleaning and rail lube with zero malfunctions. Over 120 rounds today with 5 types of ammo and zero issues. Imo the rail needs to be wet, the chamber needs to be clean, and the plastic feed ramps de burred. It was running flawless last year. Took it out the other day and it failing to feed, jamming, and sticking brass in my chamber. A good cleaning plus what I did above and it’s running like a champ! Those stingers don’t expand in my rifles but they At least will probably out penetrate the others. I have segmented stingers that are awesome .
Purchased my Beretta 21 bobcat in 22 long rifle..used in MINT COND ! It's blued with beautiful Walnut grips most likely manufactured in the 1990s... Mine is a special edition the gold medallion on the grip says.." shooting in hunting heritage foundation special edition" .. my Beretta 21 loves Remington yellow jacket and viper conical shaped bullets. Not one failure to feed or jams with the Remington yellow jacket in vipers
You know, I'm gonna say the dumbest thing here on what's clearly a guns and ammo video..you make a good Cigar even Better!! Thanks and Thumbs up my Friend ~John
Haven't shot stingers in many years. Shooting live game such as ground hogs my experience is the main mag hp just as devistating I rifles.shot ground hogs 80-100 yards and to my memory none made it back to the hole. several I shot with center fire rifles made it back to the hole.. your video proves what I've said probably 40 plus years, prove your ammunition for accuracy and flawless cycle.the stinger is probably the most unreliable ammunition for semi auto pistols and rifles.Bolt action and revolvers no problem.in short barrel 22 the round nose for penitration .here in NC who knows how many beef,hogs,deer are taken each year with 22 lr and 22 mag and some still use shorts.papa wishing you well
I've looked at similar models in the past. Great pistol to introduce shooting to a new shooter. Simple and can be used single shot then the basics of semi-auto and safety introduction to new shooters. Found one on sale. Helpful video. Thank you.
I've not had any luck with my Bobcat. I bought it new and the hammer was not hitting the cartridge. Sent it back to Beretta and they fixed the firing pin. Went back to range and this time the the bullet fired but I had the same issues with stinger and Federal punch ammo being inconsistent. I tried 2 magazines, same issues. Hopefully it's the ammo and not the gun. The Bobcat is a really nice pistol to shoot when it works. By contrast my 1968 Baby Browning in .25 acp which I also recently purchased had no misfires. If i could find the Bobcat in .25 acp i would trade my 22lr bobcat for the .25 version.
I recently ran 7 types of ammo through my used blue 21A to test for reliability. Winchester and CCi HV, CCI SV, Mini Mag, Agulia HV and sub sonic, and Punch. I used 4 mags. They all worked great except the Federal Punch which caused several malfunction including FTF and stove pipe jams. I wanted to try Stingers but I didn't have any on hand but I did have issues with Stingers in the past with an old Jennings pistol. I agree that the extra power of Stingers might be too much for these small blow back type semi autos. I prefer Mini Mags for my pistol.
Love your videos sir. I've got the 21A Covert threaded barrel model and a mid 80's 21A which my father purchased new. Great little pistols. The older pistol has been fired thousands of times with mostly bulk 22. It's action is silky smooth. The new Covert's action is no where near as smooth as the older gun's action. Both are very high quality typical of Beretta's guns. I've fired mostly CCI mini-mags unsuppressed and CCI subsonic's suppressed. Both work flawlessly in the Covert model so far.
I have had my model 21 for probably 40 years now. The original instructions said not to use CCI Stinger rounds die to their extended case length and additional velocity and wear on the alloy frame. I just use Mini Mag 40 grain round nose solid rounds which it loves. My son uses it as his home defense gun. Tried giving him a different handgun but he says he feels comfortable with the Bobcat.
Beretta Bobcats and Taurus pt22's are notoriously adverse to Hyper-velocity ammo I've never had issues with Mini Mags, 40grn round nose jhp isn't going to expand
Do you have an LCP II in .22? I have one and love it! There is a cheap spring kit for it that improved reliability and I have 320 (and counting) bulk Remington Thunderbolts through mine with ZERO failures. 200 were shot before I even did the spring kit so Thunderbolts have always had a perfect record in it, but Velocitors do too (just not many shot through it). Remington Vipers were really bad before the kit, but are great now too. Anyway, great pistol. Locks on empty, trigger safety as well as nice manual one. 10 + 1. I carry mine a lot! Anyway, I think you'd love it.
Hello Stan. No, I don't own an LCP II but who knows, maybe my wife will surprise me with one for Christmas. If I get one I will definitely look into installing a spring kit. Thanks for the suggestion and I also thank you for watching my video.
We still have the factory springs in our lcp ll...the gun does like thunderbolts for sure...I've heard the casing on the round is .0005 (or something like that) narrower than other ammo brands, which would aid in feeding/extraction...
These are super cool. I use to have one. Wished I till had it. They make outstanding tacklebox. I loaded it with shotshells and stinger. But that being said even though there fun and have uses I definitely wouldn't carry it for self defense. Awesome video and review as always
Cool test and video! I've been stocking a bit of the CCI 40gn round nose and the mini-mags for my 10 22, 10 22 charger, and TX22. They both seem to run extremely well in what I have. *been thinking about getting another rimfire in .22mag or .17hmr at some point. **My new Charger is getting most of my attention lately!
I had one of those bobcats years ago .I was told that your only supposed to use standard velocity ammo cause I had issues with stingers and the mini mags.but cci standard velocity worked fine
These casing are longer than standard 22lr. The only reliable ammo I found for the bobcat was CCI mini mags. Never failed once. Everything else I tried never cycled
@@seancssu are you using hollow point or round nosed? I just bought one and I’m trying to figure out the best bullets. Currently I have CCI mini mag hollowpoint.
We have a winner here. The stinger ammo is clearly marketed as 1640 FPS ammo. Which means you will probably not get any expansion until you get the bullet going at least 1200-1300 FPS. The problem is you are going to have a hard time getting any expansion at 1000 FPS. For best results you should look for someone making a pistol ammo that has a bullet designed to expand at 1000 FPs. The same issue is seen in 38 Special/357 mag ammo. If you hand load bullets meant for 357 mag in a 38 special load, do not expect it to expand like you want it too. The key is to get the proper bullet with the proper load/FPC..
Get a new magazine. Bobcat barrel fouls quick. Stinger casings don't feed and eject as.well (longer) Although I've never had a problem but I bought new mag and clean barrel every 20 rds.
21 as are actually very individual I tried stingers and it ate 50 no issue and did thunderbolts, federal 38 grain, velocitors and 4 others 250 rounds not one issue before cleaned my friends only shoots the Winchesters without the occasional stove pipe.
I love the little Baretta. I have had good reliability out of Federal Punch. It's made for short barrel revolvers. I think it's 1050 out of 3 inch barrel. Great job
I have had ZERO failures in about 350 rounds with Stingers in my KelTec P17 or Ruger LCP 22LR. Maybe you have run into a bad lot or the gun simply doesn’t like the ammo.
Used to be, the Remington Yellow Jackets were the choice for expansion and accuracy when/if the gun ran them reliably. If not, the answer was next the Stinger, it didn't always expand reliably but was often comparably accurate and would feed better in more guns. Unfortunately it also wore the guns out quicker. Two Wilkinson Arms "Sherry" models were literally shot loose using the Stingers almost exclusively. In a Walther PP, the Stingers were the reliability choice, and it didn't loosen up at all. Back then, the YJ's had spotty availability at best, which was the biggest complaint against them.
My experience with stingers was mostly back in the 1980's. My first rifle was a marlin Glenfield 25 and my first pistol was a Jennings j22. Out of the mg25 shooting at wet phone books someone left at the plinking spot the stingers had no penetration and just created a smear of lead like they were hitting steel. Out of the Jennings they did have a little penetration, but not a lot of deformation. Later I read that using stingers in a Jennings could crack the frame, so I downgraded to minimags which is the ammo they have shot for nearly 40 years. From clean and lubed that Jennings is 100 percent reliable for 3 mags of six which until I bought a 9mm carry gun was what I carried. I still keep a few boxes of stingers around, and from what I have seen they outperform .22lr federal punch. Minimags are my goto .22lr ammo.
Stingers cab be problematic in the21A, and I believe this may be due in part to the fact that the case is slightly longer than in other 22lr cartridges. I have not had frequent failures, but on occasion an empty case will stick in the chamber. With no extractor, this is a serious problem. With CCI minimag or standard velocity, the 21A is very reliable IF it is kept clean.
In my experience, Stingers are deadly at rifle velocities.. when they hit a jackrabbit they make a loud PLOP! The exit wound is explosive. I have 2 Beretta 21A's, One in .22 and one in .25. The .25 is far more reliable. A friend also has a 21A in .22, an Inox version like yours. It had lots of failures to extract.. well, failures to leave the chamber as there is no extractor on this gun. It was a real issue, brass sticking in the chamber or weakly ejecting and stove piping. What ended up making it reliable was rolling the bullets in an oily cloth prior to loading. They ejected nicely after that.
Great video, thanks! I have the Bobcat's little sister, the 950BS, in 22 Short. Cute little thing and I love it as a range toy, but wouldn't consider carrying it for SD. Sure wish I had your back yard to play in, Mixup!! Stay well!
I think expansion is dependent on velocity and both of the ammo choices you used in my opinion is for rifles which can achieve the velocities advertised on the package. That being said as far as reliability I do shoot Mini-Mags and Stingers in my semi-auto GSG 1911 with no issues and that firearm has a 5" barrel length. It absolutely will not run on Aguila 22lr however no matter the velocity, some tolerance with the shell casing I am guessing. Maybe your pistol does not like the shell casing tolerance on the Stingers?
The Walther PPK/s takes punch, mini mags and stinger. I used the 21a in .25 acp and Tomcat in .32. I used them as bug when I was a police officer. Never had a problem with either Beretta.
These are VERY Tiny pistols, as anyone can see, and there is not very much "recoil space" for the breech to travel back in after the breech clears the rear of the magazine. This recoil space is what provides "dwell time" to the system. Sufficient dwell time is required to allow the next cartridge in the magazine sufficient time to be pushed up by the magazine spring in order to pick up that cartridge in order to chamber it. Extra high velocity ammunition does not only give extra velocity to the bullet, but it also increases slide velocity - which reduces dwell time. I have the Taurus version of the Beretta 21A, and I only run CCI Mini-Mags in it, and they work 100% reliability. Just because velocity is good, more velocity may just be too much more than just right.
Thanks for not talking our butts off before getting to the meat of the test. I am so thankful for fast forward, or whatever you call it on you tube. Many reviewers love to hear themselves talk for 10 minutes or more before getting to the point.
I just viewed a previous video and asked about the problems with Stinger’s and Velocitors. Hollow points. I’ve tried those and have multiple problems with jamming, not feeding correctly by Round nose type working okay. Edited. Very interesting content. Good info
The high velocities marked on the pavkages are way higher than what they are in reality due to the short barrels of piatols like the one demonstrated. The tests are carried out on rifles, making the Ruger 10/22 more realistic.
Great video I do love the little Beretta I have a tomcat in 32 acp great little gun surprising how accurate it is. Great defense gun I am using the underwood ammo
Great video! One thing I noticed about the Stinger ammo is the overall length of the case (sans bullet) is longer that the case of the Mini Mag ammo. This could be causing the ejection issue. What would you call this issue? It's not a stovepipe because it's not straight up and down but exactly lengthwise from the breech face to the back of the barrel. Anyhow, loved the video. I've been wanting another Beretta 21A ever since I sold my Covert model. I liked it but really want the shorter barrel in stainless.
ALL Beretta .22LR "Bobcat" 21A pistols require "high velocity" ammunition for the pistol to function properly. It is stated in the Beretta owners manual.
The STINGER ammo is designed using slower burning powder for a longer rifle barrel to get the high velocities. The short pistol barrel doesn't allow enough slide pressure to faithfully cycle the pistol. Use standard fast powder ammo for the little short-barreled Beretta.
Nice little gun. Good review. I agree, the numbers for the Stinger look good but maybe the slide is cycling too quickly. Reliability is the key, so the Golden Bullets work for you.
I came to the same conclusion re the slide. At first, I thought it may have been a magazine problem. Also, I agree with sticking with the Remington ammo. I've always said reliability is number one.
When I purchased my Bobcat
Years ago I noticed in the manual
That Beretta recommended the
Use of " standard" velocity ammo.
I called Beretta and spoke to one
Of their tech guys. He said that
The threshold for the pistol was
In the neighborhood of 1300
FPS. He said I could expect any
Number of problems using the
Stingers including breakage.
Sooo......... No Stingers!!!!.
All steak and no sizzle. Love it. Straightforward results and a logical conclusion. This is the difference between a firearms reviewer and a firearms presenter. THANK YOU.
You are very welcome and I appreciate the very nice compliment. Have a great weekend and thanks for watching my video.
@@mixup98 take a 1/16th inch drill bit drive out the hollow point I've had 22 fold back looking like a mushroom without stem when I shot them into sand where as the standard hollow did nothing in sand too. I've really hogged out the hole in 22 in past and it's very effective on good standard ammo. I have even made hollows from regular bullet. Sand the tip lightly to create a flat spot try you best to get bit in center and drill away. You should try some playing around with them. I've even taken some bullets apart and added extra powder I fractured a few shells upon ejection 🤣 straight crack from top to bottom of casing😆
@@spankthemonkey3437 I was drilling out .22 bullets over forty years ago but I stopped doing it when one of the cartridges exploded. Fortunately I was holding it in a clamp when it exploded and I wasn't injured. The bullet started spinning when I drilled into it, causing excessive heat which ignited the gun powder. I would strongly suggest that you stop drilling out your .22 ammo.
@@mixup98 yea I stopped that when I was 16 or 17 now I'm 39 but, when I did it I did it all by hand twisting the bit with two fingers while holding the bullet with other hand. I did use caution but it's a wonder I didn't blow up my stepdads old semi auto .22 when I double the powder🤣
@spankthemonkey3437 I have a 92fs Inox and I was at the indoor range and I was shooting reloads and a fucking bullet blew up when I squeezed.. I don't know if I had to much oil on my slide and barrel but that's never happened to me.. I think it was the reloads I usually buy blazzer amm or whatever ammo they have in a box but all they had were reloads.. I might go to the gun store and buy some before I go next month
I am old LEO, I like Stingers for rifle or revolver but I have observed that the hyper velocity makes the slide function a little too fast that's why it keeps catching the empty.
You, Paul Harrell, and Hickok45 are my go to channels when I'm thinking about do something with firearms.
Years of GREAT CONTENT
Thank You
I am a retired LEO myself (31 years) and I got a fairly early 21-A, with a s/n of just 169XX. Doing the annual firearms courses I found the best round for me is the CCI mini mag 40 grain copper plated RN. I can’t remember the last time I had a fail to feed, fire or eject. The HP rounds really don’t expand with the velocity of the short barrels. I’m even shooting some older rounds going back about 15 years on them and they have had no problems. I carried it for years as a backup in my pants or coat pocket. Try a box or 2 one day on the range and see what yours will handle them.
The overall cartridge is the same size, but the case is longer on the stingers (And a federal punch 22lr for that matter) This leads to failures to extract in semi autos more often.
There are a few things to note here: the CCI Stinger is technically NOT a 22 LR. The length of the case is considered 22 XLR but the shorter bullet gives the overall cartridge length of a 22 LR. This difference is irrelevant for manually cycled firearms such as revolvers, lever action, and bolt action, but the extra millimeters on the spent casing can be problematic for autoloaders with tight tolerances. The Ruger 10/22 typically has problems with Stingers. A mouse gun like a Bobcat would be no different. I am surprised that it worked as well as it did.
As for not expanding, those bullets are designed for rifles. This is why the Federal Punch is a flat point, although, ironically enough, that too is using the Stinger XLR case. You should expect the same cycling problems with the Punch as the Stinger.
Also the slide/bolt velocity is faster than standard velocity ammunition. Slide/bolt moving faster less time for the magazine spring to overcome the downward bounce it receives as the slide/bolt travels rearward. I had those issues with a an AR-7 and an old Mossberg. They would function with standard velocity ammo all day long, but put high velocity ammo in, and it would start to have FTF's.
I don't have any problems with stingers in my 10/22 when I use the 10 round magazines but the 25 round magazines are problematic. In my Beretta, minimags are almost flawless but stingers are just a wast of time/money.
I've never heard of .22xlr Winchester has Super X .22lr but the case is normal length
@@greylocke100 Is your AR-7 a Charter Arms? Mine is and it is pretty finicky with everything, be it a Stinger with the longer case or any regular old 22lr ammo. Runs best when well oiled and clean.
@@lognliv My old one was, my new on is a Henry.
You should give the velocitors a try, they will pressurize better being 40 grain bullets like the mini mags. The stinger case is a little longer than a standard 22lr case. That was probably the stove piping issue.
You are correct
My '90s manufactured Beretta 21 bobcat 22 long rifle works fantastic with Remington yellow jacket and viper conical shaped bullets.. not one failure to feed not one jam
My thought, too.
For my bobcat .22 conical Remington yellow jackets & vipers worked flawlessly
Just curious, with a CCI stinger.22 ammo, wouldn't that higher powder ignition damage the slide compared to standard ammo? I don't have a berreta bobcat, just a ruger LCR.22 revolver, this shoots anything.22 , but curious of the bobcat.
I think it would be good idea to keep track of what magazine you are using to see if one is more prone for malfunctions
Agreed. I fired a variety of CCI, Federal and Remington through mine with a factory mag and a random aftermarket and was quite dissapointed. Lots of fails.
I read Meg-gar did better in the 21A and ordered four magazines off eBay. Sent all 42 rounds out of those downrange with no issue last weekend. I have only sent 42 rounds though. So my testing is far from complete. Waiting for cooler weather to continue.
@@twilheit8483 what problems were you having ? Mine keeps failing to eject the bullet out I haven’t tried cci but Remington and federal won’t work in mine
@xbervalot2089 My solution has been to switch to Mec-Gar magazines. Only one small fail after running through all four of mine twice. Ammo choice seems to matter a lot less now... so far.
The stinger was designed for an 18 inch rifle so it can burn to the end of the barrel. You will not get the blowback out of a pistol
Yellow jackets by Remington are for a pistol. It's that simple
Federal punch works great in the 21a that I wrangled up. Cool little pistols. Thank you for the video.
the worst butt whipping I ever got was over one of these, back in the 60's when I was 7 or 8, my dad had a little Beretta like this , him a friend of his and I went target shooting. After knocking down everything, my father handed me the pistol to hold while they went to set the targets back up. when they headed back, I was pointing the pistol down range toward them. after that day I never pointed a gun at anything I wasn't going to shoot
Thanks for the video and second review. Past 21A pistols I have owned worked great. I traded them away, missed the pistols, and later decided to get a new inox version to support the new TN Beretta manufacturing plant near me. I tried Golden Bullets, CCI of differing types, Winchester, TAC22 and a few others. Ammo stated velocities were from 1070 to the higher Stinger 1640 I think it was. All of it was trying to limber the pistol up a little. I even ordered a second OEM magazine from Beretta thinking that would help. I had poor results from all of them. My stainless Bobcat was very stiff and suffered a failure in almost every magazine I shot. I cleaned and lubed it many many times. I gave up after about a 1K rounds. I am a big Beretta firearm fan. Berettas are normally known for reliability. This one was a disappointment. The failures I experienced were almost identical to the failures you demonstrated, just more numerous. I am not sure the reason for it. Maybe I will try another one some day. I thought about sending it back, but it's not an expensive pistol. I didn't think the techs would put it through the paces enough to do much about it. We'll give it another try when I get over it :)
Been having the same issues. Polished the feed ramp and chamber and nothing. I'm thinking about cutting a couple coils off each side of the recoil spring. Hoping that makes a difference
I looked up Beretta USA Tennessee Google reviews and they have many one star ratings. Many new manufacturing facilities struggle with quality control. Sounds like Beretta's doing their Beta testing at your expense. Send the gun back. My bobcat is flawless except for bad ammo every so often. It must be free of defects to function properly. Mine works best with CCI fmj, hp. Remington golden is ok ammo but cheaper than CCI. The barrel should be swabed at least every 50 rounds.
Mine was hanging up on almost every magazineful, until I polished the feed ramp and the adjacent chamber mouth lips, and it doesn’t hang up anymore, at least with high velocity round nose ammo.
Kinda funny, because Stingers are one of those rounds that work in like Every gun, esp guns that are finicky with other ammo. I know people with problem 22lr's and they're almost always fixed when the person shoots Stingers out of them. (A must have for a new gun that needs to be broken in). A family member had a problem with her Buckmark and then got these which broke in the Buckmark and now it functions perfect with all ammo (after about 500 Stingers through it).
This is a problem I never was aware of, as the 21A that I bought in the late 1980s worked fine with Stingers or anything else I ran through it, with no malfunctions, period, so I'm grateful that this video has called it to my attention. I wish I still had my old one, but it was stolen. I've heard a lot of complaints about the quality and reliability of Berettas made in the Tennessee factory, and the tip-up barrel models from there in particular, and not just with Stingers. I don't know if their US operation is now a garbage company, or maybe it's just a case of everybody being a fierce critic if they can hide behind a keyboard. If there actually is a decline in quality, they moved there in 2016, and you'd think seven years would be long enough to work out any problems they might be having as a result of being in a new facility with a mix of old and new personnel having to get used to working together. Whatever the deal is, I'm probably not buying any more US-made Berettas until these complaints become a bit fewer and farther between.
Beretta called it and you confirmed it. Well done, Mixup!
Thank you Noah 👍😎
Thanks @mixup98. I’m still thinking, as Beretta have indicated in the manual, there is not enough time for the ejection of the spent cases when using higher velocity ammunition. The slide of the Beretta barely clears the magazine under normal operating conditions, and the pressure of high velocity ammunition increases the slide velocity reducing the time that the case has for it to be ejected.
Sometimes slower is better.
That's the beauty of the .22 rimfire. If one load doesn't work out there are many others that will. I will add that the Beretta has pretty stiff recoil springs and will work better with the 40 gr. bullets.
My favorite TH-camr strikes again! Thanks brother!👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I have had my Beretta 21A for 30 years and have good results with CCI mini mag round nose. Hollow points always seem to hang up in it despite the brand.
We have a Beretta Bobcat and like it very much. It's very accurate, even at a longer distances, is easy to load, shoot and maintain. It's also been a great tool for training new shooters
I have a Ruger LCP II in .22 caliber. CCI Stingers and Mini mags feed well through it but we did have a few hiccups. After some thorough testing we discovered a bad magazine was the problem. Since then, no problems with either round. Most 22's can be ammo specific, I have found.
Hey Southern Nevada, You have become my go-to review guy. I enjoy your commentary and no-nonsense talk. Plus I always enjoy the father & son adventures
My son and I appreciate your feedback and we are glad to hear that you enjoy our adventures 👍😎 👍😎 Thank you!
Great illustration! I’ve lost count of the number of times that people have told me: “I love it but this baby is So expensive to shoot!”. 9 times out of 10, they’ve bought the most expensive defensive or high velocity rounds available. We know that auto pistols often have dietary preferences and hollow point terminal ballistics can be a finicky thing.
Yup definitely....I would agree with you on that completely......Great to see you today my friend take care out there 🤠🤠🎣🎣🎣⛰⛰
I've been contemplating purchasing a Beretta 21A Bobcat and have watched several reviews of this little pistol. This one has been the most useful. Good work, thanks for your efforts.
Thank you for the feedback on my video and please let us all know if you do purchase a Bobcat and what your thoughts are after shooting it.
My bobcat loves high velocity ammo. I’ll have to the stinger. I didn’t have very good results with the mini mag.
I have heard from another owner who had warranty work done on his 21a that Beretta themselves do not recommend using the CCI Stinger in the 21a. Apparently it slowly beats the little pistols to pieces.
👍😎
Good to know.
As someone who doesn't use this pistolle
Maybe others have said but the stinger case is longer than the LR cases. Some guns won't cycle stinger properly due to that.
It could be problematic with the Stinger, due to the casing in the stinger being a bit longer than the mini mag. Great video as always brother.
My bobcat likes Aguila Interceptor 40 grain flat points. Stingers and Velocitors jam with the nose into the top of chamber.
My Bobcat hates Aguila High Velocity ammo but maybe I will try the Interceptor ammo in my pistol and see what happens.
I have had a Tom Cat .32 for years. Most accurate pocket popper I own. That Bob Cat, I want one! I really appreciate your real world testing of various firearms.
Good morning Larry. I would love to own a Tom Cat someday and I'll make a video with it if I get one. Thanks for the nice comment and I also thank you for being a four year subscriber to my channel.
I have owned a Beretta 21-A Bobcat not too long after they began making them. I have a S/N of only 169XX. I carried it for years as my backup or for suit and tie or tuxedo events when anything bigger than a mouse gun would be noticed. Early on I tried quite a few .22 rounds from different makers. I found the CCI mini mag 40 grain copper plated RN round to be a very, very reliable round. In fact it has been so long since I had a fail to feed, eject or fire that I can’t remember when it was. I keep my pistol clean and use Remington Dry Lube on it so it doesn’t pickup much pocket lint. I have qualified with it out to the 25 yard line in annual firearms qualifications. Try a box of 100 and drop me a reply on how you made out.
Thank you for the info, would you be comfortable using the mini mag for stand alone self defense?
my browning buckmark 22 my 40 grain velocitors are the only ones that hang up once in a while even on well lubed and clean gun, they give me about 117 ft/lbs at 1150 fps no bad out of a 5.5 inch barrel its closing in on 32 acp energy for that round, some 22 rifles or even pistols the stinger because of longer case may cause case to engage the rifling when only lead of the bullet is supposed to, this is because some chambers are cut for only 22 lr length when a stinger has extra case length and case may be pushing it into the first part of lands and groves being its longer then a 22 lr
CCI was the only ammo the misfired for me until this last box of Federal Match something or other from Walmart.
Remington Thunderbolt is super reliable and plenty of snap for my Beretta 92.
I’ve had a bobcat for more than 30 years. With mine, it really loves the Stingers. I also worked at a gun shop and shooting range, so I have seen plenty of these in use. We consistently had failures when customers used Walmart ammo. Each time, the stingers dramatically improved the performance and reliability of the weapon. I loved your review, but was certainly surprised by the results.
Beretta must have made some changes to the Bobcat since yours was produced. Maybe different recoil springs or perhaps a redesigned slide could be the reason mine doesn't like Stinger ammo.
@@mixup98 I got curious about my Bobcat after your reply. It is not an exaggeration to say that I have run many hundreds of Stingers through my bobcat. But, like I said I got curious, so the other day I went to the range and got a box of Stingers. It was a total disaster. Multiple failures, and the biggest surprise was that they repeatedly hung in the magazine. While I might buy the idea that my bobcat was just worn out, i seriously doubt that my magazines are smaller than they used to be. I have to suspect that the Stingers available today are slightly bigger than what I was using and selling back in the 90's. Kudos to your review, and the minimags functioned perfectly. Aquila also gave me some trouble with misfires. This demonstrates the necessity of knowing more than the weapon itself, knowing the ammo is a must!
@@baldguybasics7584 Apparently something has changed over the years with Stinger ammo. I would guess that CCI probably switched to a different type of gunpowder therefore effecting the timing and speed of the slide. Anyways, thanks for the feedback on shooting Stinger ammo through your Bobcat.
I have the Taurus PT22 which is the polymer version of that gun. The Taurus,(same as the Beretta) recommends standard velocity ammo only. They are fun to test your marksmanship with but don't believe I would carry except for backup gun. Not reliable enough, but better than a sharp stick! Nice video!
Wish the Taurus was DA/SA also. Still a good gun with DAO only though (if you get a reliable magazine or know how to fix unreliable magazines).
Really like your new intro and that Beretta Bobcat. I was surprised at the penatration of the .22 Long rifle out of such a short barrel. Of course the Stinger is not the same round as it used to be back in the 80's. I have an old pack maybe 35/40 years old? The bullet is a real jacketed hollow point compared to todays copper plated lead hollow points.
I purchased my Beretta 21-A Bobcat way back in 1989 and I used to use nothing but
CCI Stinger's, and I never once had a failure to feed or eject.
And long as the round went off it cycled 100% of the time.
Now, having said that, I did have one problem, I was at the range and I had fired off almost a 50 rnd box of Stinger's when all of a sudden it stopped working. It had cycled and it had a new round in the chamber but there was no firing pin indentation. I cleared the pistol and checked it out, and after I had fired the last round, it also blew the spring and firing pin out the back of the pistol. I contacted Beretta for return shipping information and I sent it back by UPS. Beretta repaired it for free and returned it fairly quickly and it looked great. I then called and spoke with a representative in customer service to discuss what had happened, and he said that Stinger's should only be used occasionally and not a regular standard load as it beats the little pistol up. So I only shoot standard velocity ammo now and no more problems. I just wanted to pass this along , hoping that it will save someone some aggravation .
Thank you for all of your informative and well done videos, I really appreciate them.
CCI Maxi Mag 22wmr is what I carry in my Smith 351 snubby
I have a Bobcat and Ruger 10/22 and the Stinger does not feed in either firearm. The CCI Mini-Mag has been flawless in both of my guns so I will be sticking with the Mini-Mag. I must say the Bobcat is an awesome pocket pistol with the correct ammo. Thanks for doing this video. Wish I had seen it sooner as I bought Stingers which I can now only use for single shot firing or bartering.
Stinger cost nearly twice as much and it just never seemed worth it to me. Those mini mags performed just fine. Very cool little gun.
They're fine for rifle or more conventional 22 pistols, but out of a tiny gun like that it's probably overkill on its ability to function.
The CCI Stinger has a slower burning powder. It's made for longer barrel to get the higher velocity. If you shoot Stinger in a short barrel you don't get the higher velocity. It will cycle perfect in my .22lr target pistols. Never will use it in a 21A.
i had a beretta 21a for 20+ years that i could never get to run reliably. after a gunsmith worked on it, i just couldn’t regain confidence in it for any use other than a range toy. away it went and the funds went towards a wonderful ruger sr22, bigger but way better. on the other hand a taurus clone pt25 poly chambered in 25acp works great.
These little Bobcats are sure pretty! I haven't ever fired one, but my gun store has them & I've often checked them out. The only ones I've handled are all brand new, and have very, very stiff springs; I had to pull the hammer back before pulling the slide back, it seemed like the slide was glued on at first! These aren't guns I'd ever carry (except maybe as an ankle carry backup) but they always make me think of James Bond, back when Bond was suave, debonair, and deadly with the ladies as well as the bad guys! Thanks for another great vid!
Hello Denis. I agree, the slide is very hard to pull back but fortunately the flip up barrel makes loading very easy. A reliable Bobcat does make for a very good backup pistol, and I do occasionally carry mine with Remington ammo.
@@mixup98 It did look fun to shoot, and yeah- with reliable ammo, it'd be a fine backup pistol! The Stinger just wasn't right for that little gun, though, as you proved!
I still have not forgiven an ex-brother-in-law for trading a pristine, fully functional, S&W 1917 .45ACP revolver, a dozen full moon clips, and two boxes of 230grn FMJ rounds for a Beretta Bobcat and two bricks of Remington ammo. Forty plus years after the fact it still ticks me off. Loved the video, as usual, but just seeing a Bobcat makes me mad all over again. Keep the great videos comin'!!!
Understandable. 😳
On a side note, if you have a North American Arms .22 Magnum mini revolver, don't use Hornady VMax or similar ammo in it. It'll make the cylinder bind and jam. I thought there was a problem with mine because that's what happened right after I got it. I called NAA and they said it would work fine with regular ammo like the CCI Maxi Mag stuff. And they were right.
Just a heads-up.
I have had issues with cci mini mag and stingers not ejecting from my ruger 10/22 CARBINE. All other ammo feeds fine. But I have a Rossi auto 22lr rifle and the only ammo that cycles is cci. It's all in the the thickness of the rim. It's a difference in the gap of the extractor pin. CCI have thick rims. Also the stinger has a longer cartridge. I think that is what causes it to stick on ejection in the bobcat
I haven't tried the stingers but the federal punch was not a reliable load for it. I think its possible the lighter weight bullets is a factor and possibly the case length. I will just stick with the high velocity loads I've already tried successfully. Armscor, Aguila, Cci mini mags. I've not done any others yet. Frankly the Stingers would present little advantage out of the short bbl. I wish the punch would have fed well since they are designed for the short bbl.
Great job brother! Great review
God bless all here.
Hi, Mixup. I have a 22 LR Bobcat, too, in the black (blue?) persuasion. It used to hang up a lot even with round nose ammo. A few days ago I decided to polish the feed ramp to an almost mirror like finish, and lo and behold! stoppages ceased, at least with round nose ammo. I also slightly polished both sides of the chamber mouth, right adjacent to the feed ramp, since I noticed that when cycling the action by hand with a loaded magazine, rounds sometimes -many times!- tended to slightly veer off to either side when entering the chamber mouth, which used to be a little sharp. Again, hang ups have stopped, at least with round nose bullets. In my limited experience, pistols are more prone to malfunction when loaded with higher-than-normal-velocity ammunition, both rimfire and centerfire, and I suspect it is due to the magazines not being calibrated to the increased slide velocities generated by hotter ammo. Perhaps stretching the magazine spring, or changing it for a stiffer one, might solve the problem. I’ll let you know the results if I get around to performing this test. Thank you for your great videos.
Hello Francisco. Sometimes a pistol just needs a little polishing and I'm glad you got yours working smoothly. I had to do some polishing on a Taurus Spectrum 380 to get it to feed reliably. And I think you are right about some magazines not being calibrated for increased slide velocity, which is probably part of the problem when using Stinger ammo in the Bobcat.
Mine ran stingers flawless in all three magazines when I bought it last year. I tried it again today. All three mags ran flawless again. I did get a jam because of user error today. I stuck 8 rounds in my 7 round magazine and it binded tipping #6, #7, and #8 in the magazine. I removed #8 and it still had my ammo below tipped down. So my fault. I did remove all three plastic feed ramps, lightly danced burrs, sprayed dry graphite on the plastic followers, and re assembled. I also lubed my slide and frame with synthetic lube. Ran 5 types of ammo through my gun today after the magazine cleaning and rail lube with zero malfunctions. Over 120 rounds today with 5 types of ammo and zero issues. Imo the rail needs to be wet, the chamber needs to be clean, and the plastic feed ramps de burred. It was running flawless last year. Took it out the other day and it failing to feed, jamming, and sticking brass in my chamber. A good cleaning plus what I did above and it’s running like a champ! Those stingers don’t expand in my rifles but they At least will probably out penetrate the others. I have segmented stingers that are awesome .
Purchased my Beretta 21 bobcat in 22 long rifle..used in MINT COND ! It's blued with beautiful Walnut grips most likely manufactured in the 1990s... Mine is a special edition the gold medallion on the grip says.." shooting in hunting heritage foundation special edition" .. my Beretta 21 loves Remington yellow jacket and viper conical shaped bullets. Not one failure to feed or jams with the Remington yellow jacket in vipers
Great video. I own 4 Beretta Bobcats, 2 are 25 ACP The others are 22lr. I love these little pistols. Stingers gave me trouble too.
Stingers aren't always the best choice for small caliber pistols. Thanks for the feedback and I also thank you for recently subscribing to my channel.
You know, I'm gonna say the dumbest thing here on what's clearly a guns and ammo video..you make a good Cigar even Better!! Thanks and Thumbs up my Friend ~John
Heck John, I would love to sit down with you someday and smoke a good Cigar 👍
Haven't shot stingers in many years. Shooting live game such as ground hogs my experience is the main mag hp just as devistating I rifles.shot ground hogs 80-100 yards and to my memory none made it back to the hole. several I shot with center fire rifles made it back to the hole.. your video proves what I've said probably 40 plus years, prove your ammunition for accuracy and flawless cycle.the stinger is probably the most unreliable ammunition for semi auto pistols and rifles.Bolt action and revolvers no problem.in short barrel 22 the round nose for penitration .here in NC who knows how many beef,hogs,deer are taken each year with 22 lr and 22 mag and some still use shorts.papa wishing you well
I've looked at similar models in the past. Great pistol to introduce shooting to a new shooter. Simple and can be used single shot then the basics of semi-auto and safety introduction to new shooters. Found one on sale. Helpful video. Thank you.
I've not had any luck with my Bobcat. I bought it new and the hammer was not hitting the cartridge. Sent it back to Beretta and they fixed the firing pin. Went back to range and this time the the bullet fired but I had the same issues with stinger and Federal punch ammo being inconsistent. I tried 2 magazines, same issues. Hopefully it's the ammo and not the gun. The Bobcat is a really nice pistol to shoot when it works. By contrast my 1968 Baby Browning in .25 acp which I also recently purchased had no misfires. If i could find the Bobcat in .25 acp i would trade my 22lr bobcat for the .25 version.
My experience just the opposite. Stingers only ammo I’ve found that will reliably cycle in my Beretta 21a
I have a Bobcat. I originally used CCI stinger ammunition in it. It gave occasional problems. Switching to CCI velocitors cured all problems.
Awesome....thanks for the great feedback!
I agree with the gent below. My 21A seems to like 40 gr bullets too, CC! MaxiMag and Aquila
Got similar results with my BobCat. Remington is the way to go. Less expensive too. BobCat needs to be clean and lubed.
I recently ran 7 types of ammo through my used blue 21A to test for reliability. Winchester and CCi HV, CCI SV, Mini Mag, Agulia HV and sub sonic, and Punch. I used 4 mags. They all worked great except the Federal Punch which caused several malfunction including FTF and stove pipe jams. I wanted to try Stingers but I didn't have any on hand but I did have issues with Stingers in the past with an old Jennings pistol. I agree that the extra power of Stingers might be too much for these small blow back type semi autos. I prefer Mini Mags for my pistol.
I don’t think stingers are supposed to be used in these. Longer cases can get stuck on a lot of chambers.
Love your videos sir. I've got the 21A Covert threaded barrel model and a mid 80's 21A which my father purchased new. Great little pistols. The older pistol has been fired thousands of times with mostly bulk 22. It's action is silky smooth. The new Covert's action is no where near as smooth as the older gun's action. Both are very high quality typical of Beretta's guns. I've fired mostly CCI mini-mags unsuppressed and CCI subsonic's suppressed. Both work flawlessly in the Covert model so far.
I have had my model 21 for probably 40 years now. The original instructions said not to use CCI Stinger rounds die to their extended case length and additional velocity and wear on the alloy frame. I just use Mini Mag 40 grain round nose solid rounds which it loves. My son uses it as his home defense gun. Tried giving him a different handgun but he says he feels comfortable with the Bobcat.
Beretta Bobcats and Taurus pt22's are notoriously adverse to Hyper-velocity ammo
I've never had issues with Mini Mags, 40grn round nose jhp isn't going to expand
My bobcat works very well with the stingers, if I load the magazine with 6, instead of 7, and one in the pipe.
I bought a cheap Phoenix arms copy of the 22A and never had a malfunction with any type of ammo. It's actually a great pistol.
Do you have an LCP II in .22? I have one and love it! There is a cheap spring kit for it that improved reliability and I have 320 (and counting) bulk Remington Thunderbolts through mine with ZERO failures. 200 were shot before I even did the spring kit so Thunderbolts have always had a perfect record in it, but Velocitors do too (just not many shot through it). Remington Vipers were really bad before the kit, but are great now too. Anyway, great pistol. Locks on empty, trigger safety as well as nice manual one. 10 + 1. I carry mine a lot! Anyway, I think you'd love it.
Hello Stan. No, I don't own an LCP II but who knows, maybe my wife will surprise me with one for Christmas. If I get one I will definitely look into installing a spring kit. Thanks for the suggestion and I also thank you for watching my video.
We still have the factory springs in our lcp ll...the gun does like thunderbolts for sure...I've heard the casing on the round is .0005 (or something like that) narrower than other ammo brands, which would aid in feeding/extraction...
@@PetuniaIii-pd1ww Interesting! Yeah that could explain the crazy reliability.
These are super cool. I use to have one. Wished I till had it. They make outstanding tacklebox. I loaded it with shotshells and stinger. But that being said even though there fun and have uses I definitely wouldn't carry it for self defense. Awesome video and review as always
Thank you Ernest...I appreciate the great comment.
Cool test and video! I've been stocking a bit of the CCI 40gn round nose and the mini-mags for my 10 22, 10 22 charger, and TX22. They both seem to run extremely well in what I have.
*been thinking about getting another rimfire in .22mag or .17hmr at some point.
**My new Charger is getting most of my attention lately!
I had one of those bobcats years ago .I was told that your only supposed to use standard velocity ammo cause I had issues with stingers and the mini mags.but cci standard velocity worked fine
These casing are longer than standard 22lr. The only reliable ammo I found for the bobcat was CCI mini mags. Never failed once. Everything else I tried never cycled
@@seancssu are you using hollow point or round nosed? I just bought one and I’m trying to figure out the best bullets. Currently I have CCI mini mag hollowpoint.
@@lissarx2459 round are best, hollow will do fine, but it’s a lower grain weight and won’t expand out of a 2” barrel. Get the 40gr round nose
Interesting results! Apparently the Stinger and the Mini Mags need more velocity to expand. Thanks for another good video
We have a winner here. The stinger ammo is clearly marketed as 1640 FPS ammo. Which means you will probably not get any expansion until you get the bullet going at least 1200-1300 FPS. The problem is you are going to have a hard time getting any expansion at 1000 FPS. For best results you should look for someone making a pistol ammo that has a bullet designed to expand at 1000 FPs. The same issue is seen in 38 Special/357 mag ammo. If you hand load bullets meant for 357 mag in a 38 special load, do not expect it to expand like you want it too. The key is to get the proper bullet with the proper load/FPC..
Get a new magazine. Bobcat barrel fouls quick. Stinger casings don't feed and eject as.well (longer) Although I've never had a problem but I bought new mag and clean barrel every 20 rds.
21 as are actually very individual I tried stingers and it ate 50 no issue and did thunderbolts, federal 38 grain, velocitors and 4 others 250 rounds not one issue before cleaned my friends only shoots the Winchesters without the occasional stove pipe.
Beretta 21A .22lr semiautomatic is a keeper....accurate, reliable and easly concealed
Great job, you're a professional step by step. I love it.
Thank you for the awesome feedback....much appreciated!
I always use mini mag round nose in my 21a, and works fine. Hollows seem to hang up.
I love the little Baretta. I have had good reliability out of Federal Punch. It's made for short barrel revolvers. I think it's 1050 out of 3 inch barrel. Great job
I have had ZERO failures in about 350 rounds with Stingers in my KelTec P17 or Ruger LCP 22LR. Maybe you have run into a bad lot or the gun simply doesn’t like the ammo.
Used to be, the Remington Yellow Jackets were the choice for expansion and accuracy when/if the gun ran them reliably.
If not, the answer was next the Stinger, it didn't always expand reliably but was often comparably accurate and would feed better in more guns. Unfortunately it also wore the guns out quicker. Two Wilkinson Arms "Sherry" models were literally shot loose using the Stingers almost exclusively.
In a Walther PP, the Stingers were the reliability choice, and it didn't loosen up at all.
Back then, the YJ's had spotty availability at best, which was the biggest complaint against them.
My experience with stingers was mostly back in the 1980's. My first rifle was a marlin Glenfield 25 and my first pistol was a Jennings j22. Out of the mg25 shooting at wet phone books someone left at the plinking spot the stingers had no penetration and just created a smear of lead like they were hitting steel. Out of the Jennings they did have a little penetration, but not a lot of deformation. Later I read that using stingers in a Jennings could crack the frame, so I downgraded to minimags which is the ammo they have shot for nearly 40 years. From clean and lubed that Jennings is 100 percent reliable for 3 mags of six which until I bought a 9mm carry gun was what I carried. I still keep a few boxes of stingers around, and from what I have seen they outperform .22lr federal punch. Minimags are my goto .22lr ammo.
Stingers cab be problematic in the21A, and I believe this may be due in part to the fact that the case is slightly longer than in other 22lr cartridges. I have not had frequent failures, but on occasion an empty case will stick in the chamber. With no extractor, this is a serious problem. With CCI minimag or standard velocity, the 21A is very reliable IF it is kept clean.
In my experience, Stingers are deadly at rifle velocities.. when they hit a jackrabbit they make a loud PLOP! The exit wound is explosive. I have 2 Beretta 21A's, One in .22 and one in .25. The .25 is far more reliable. A friend also has a 21A in .22, an Inox version like yours. It had lots of failures to extract.. well, failures to leave the chamber as there is no extractor on this gun. It was a real issue, brass sticking in the chamber or weakly ejecting and stove piping. What ended up making it reliable was rolling the bullets in an oily cloth prior to loading. They ejected nicely after that.
Appreciate the honest, thorough review, as always. Stay safe Mixup. 👍
Great video, thanks! I have the Bobcat's little sister, the 950BS, in 22 Short. Cute little thing and I love it as a range toy, but wouldn't consider carrying it for SD. Sure wish I had your back yard to play in, Mixup!! Stay well!
I do indeed have a very nice backyard and hopefully tomorrow I will be out in it making another video.
@@mixup98 While I have a nice backyard, and enjoy it, we sadly cannot use our "toys" there. Good to hear from you, Mixup! Please stay well!
I think expansion is dependent on velocity and both of the ammo choices you used in my opinion is for rifles which can achieve the velocities advertised on the package. That being said as far as reliability I do shoot Mini-Mags and Stingers in my semi-auto GSG 1911 with no issues and that firearm has a 5" barrel length. It absolutely will not run on Aguila 22lr however no matter the velocity, some tolerance with the shell casing I am guessing. Maybe your pistol does not like the shell casing tolerance on the Stingers?
The Walther PPK/s takes punch, mini mags and stinger. I used the 21a in .25 acp and Tomcat in .32. I used them as bug when I was a police officer. Never had a problem with either Beretta.
These are VERY Tiny pistols, as anyone can see, and there is not very much "recoil space" for the breech to travel back in after the breech clears the rear of the magazine. This recoil space is what provides "dwell time" to the system. Sufficient dwell time is required to allow the next cartridge in the magazine sufficient time to be pushed up by the magazine spring in order to pick up that cartridge in order to chamber it.
Extra high velocity ammunition does not only give extra velocity to the bullet, but it also increases slide velocity - which reduces dwell time.
I have the Taurus version of the Beretta 21A, and I only run CCI Mini-Mags in it, and they work 100% reliability.
Just because velocity is good, more velocity may just be too much more than just right.
👍👍😎
Thanks for not talking our butts off before getting to the meat of the test. I am so thankful for fast forward, or whatever you call it on you tube. Many reviewers love to hear themselves talk for 10 minutes or more before getting to the point.
Awesome comment Frank and I really appreciate the great feedback. Maybe more gun reviewers on youtube should just "shut up and shoot" 👍😎
I just viewed a previous video and asked about the problems with Stinger’s and Velocitors. Hollow points.
I’ve tried those and have multiple problems with jamming, not feeding correctly by
Round nose type working okay.
Edited. Very interesting content. Good info
I've always like the 21. I had a 950 that was sweet shooter. CCI mini-mags are my go to 22 ammo.
Excellent video! You put a lot of work into your videos and it shows! Really enjoy your videos!
This was helpful. I like your Star Trek entrance.
The high velocities marked on the pavkages are way higher than what they are in reality due to the short barrels of piatols like the one demonstrated.
The tests are carried out on rifles, making the Ruger 10/22 more realistic.
Great video I do love the little Beretta I have a tomcat in 32 acp great little gun surprising how accurate it is. Great defense gun I am using the underwood ammo
It does say straightaway in the owner's manual to use only "standard velocity" ammo.
Great video! One thing I noticed about the Stinger ammo is the overall length of the case (sans bullet) is longer that the case of the Mini Mag ammo. This could be causing the ejection issue. What would you call this issue? It's not a stovepipe because it's not straight up and down but exactly lengthwise from the breech face to the back of the barrel. Anyhow, loved the video. I've been wanting another Beretta 21A ever since I sold my Covert model. I liked it but really want the shorter barrel in stainless.
I always CCI Stinger in my bobcat,it work good
ALL Beretta .22LR "Bobcat" 21A pistols require "high velocity" ammunition for the pistol to function properly. It is stated in the Beretta owners manual.
As I showed in this video the Beretta owners manual recommends "standard velocity" ammo in this pistol.
Great video sir thank you can’t wait to see Junior again always a great video on TH-cam or shooting together👍👍👍👍👍
The STINGER ammo is designed using slower burning powder for a longer rifle barrel to get the high velocities. The short pistol barrel doesn't allow enough slide pressure to faithfully cycle the pistol. Use standard fast powder ammo for the little short-barreled Beretta.
What would you suggest?
@@grimjet3601 Standard ammo with solid copper coated bullets.
@@makarov138 Thank you, I have some of that I will try it out.
Great info on what looks to be a great semi-auto. The Beretta 21A looks like a great backup weapon or just a reliable sole carry. Thanks!
Helloo J D. The 21A is a great little backup weapon when using the right ammo, and I occasionally carry mine in my pocket.
Nice little gun. Good review. I agree, the numbers for the Stinger look good but maybe the slide is cycling too quickly. Reliability is the key, so the Golden Bullets work for you.
I came to the same conclusion re the slide. At first, I thought it may have been a magazine problem. Also, I agree with sticking with the Remington ammo. I've always said reliability is number one.
Niiiiiice. Video drop made my Friday. Thank you.