Great vid. My then girlfriend in the early 1980s used to regularly shoot at what was then a shooting range (perfect for one of these) in the blanked off tunnel nearest to you in the vid. I had the occasional shoot in there, but Judith always amazed me, I called her 'Annie Oakley' due to her shooting ability (this is in reference to the real Annie Oakley (born Phoebe Ann Mosey; August 13, 1860 - November 3, 1926) she was an American sharpshooter and folk heroine who starred in Buffalo Bill's Wild West shows) - Judith regularly out shot the men much to their annoyance. Also back then there was no fencing on the pedestrian walkway so there was a ton of graffiti on the now painted walls in front of you next to the tunnel entrances. Being a bit of a history buff even back then, amongst all the usual 'tags' etc was some large words brush painted in white saying 'Sack Pig Iron Bob'. This piece of 'graffiti' I realised was painted back in 1938! Know doubt by the wharfies here in Sydney in support of their Port Kembla colleagues who refused to load a steamer bound for Japan with Australian pig iron which would have been processed by the Japanese Govt as military hardware in the then Second Sino-Japanese War. This dispute with the wharfies and the Australian Govt. became famous for providing the nickname of Pig Iron Bob to Attorney General Robert Menzies, later Prime Minister! It's a shame that this this piece of 'graffiti' not that it would have been called that back in the day, which had survived for so long was not preserved as its historical significance is quite large when you think about it.
I'm old enough to remember travelling in the tram across the bridge. I used to live in Milsons Point. I remember that the tram lines used to go up the Pacific Highway and there was a branch line that went up Miller St. North Sydney. I think that it was about 1957. Thank Phil, very interesting.
I came down from the Country to Willoughby Sydney to my cousins place & travelled to the City by Tram - sort of as my Cousin got us of the Tram at Milson's Point & we WALKED across that damed bridge to save 6 pence! (5 cents). He became an Economics Teacher.😂
One sunny day I walked from Milsons Point to see for myself this old tram track. From Milsons Point there is some shuttered off stairs that was going up to the tram station, which was converted to the toll booths. It was a most enjoyable scenic walk with the option of going up the pylon in the city side to see from the top. Going down those stairs after the portals and ended up at The Rocks. It was easier than I though. Afterward I caught the train from Wynyard back to Milsons Point.
If I remember correctly, at the city end of the bridge the tunnels were used for a variety of matters, one I remember was that a tunnel was used as a pistol range for pistol clubs. I was a member of one of those pistol clubs and be assured they were more than safe as well as suitable for that purpose. We parked our cars in Cumberland Street and walked (or struggled) up the stairs to the range, did out target practice and left when we were finished. Great memories! Thanks for this clip and take care.
It was only intended to be used for trams until the Northern Beaches railway line was built, at which time the tracks were to be converted to heavy rail, including removing the trestles that brought the trams up to platform level at Wynyard. The tracks were also to continue further south, but I'm not sure what the plan was. Once the western harbour tunnel is opened, I believe that the eastern tracks across the bridge should be rebuilt as part of a more direct intercity route between Sydney and the Central Coast & Hunter.
It was Bradfield's plan that the railway lines on the east side of the Harbour Bridge would be extended out to the Warringah area, but that never happened, so the rail corridor was instead co-opted by the North Sydney tram network to feed into the city via the bridge and the surplus platforms at Wynyard.
@@davidpalmer9780 I am a resident that lives there and wouldn't care if we have a train line. These videos talking about Bradfield's plan is the first I knew that there were supposed to be trains from Sydney. All my life I was told that there had been land set aside (sold off years ago) for a train line from Chatswood to Dee Why. I really don't know how much is the residents as it is the current government that stopped the new tunnel being extended to the Northern Beaches and also cut the funding for the upgrade to one of the 3 roads that are the only ways in and out. People object to more housing being put in in this area because transport is so limited and roads are already really congested. There is also the fact that there are quite a few areas that are bush fire zones and only have one road in so you don't want to be adding more traffic to those areas.
Hi Phil, thanks for a great video. This tram line was always a big favourite with me. It included the only underground tramway in Australia, which made it really special. just outside the tunnel, they had an extra tram stop, before crossing the bridge. I would love to see this area reused for light rail. I think they could easily run a shuttle light rail service between Wynyard and North Sydney, using the two original lanes across the bridge. This should reduce road traffic on the bridge and also be very handy for people traveling between the two locations. Anyway, all the very best. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
It was a dumb idea ever mixing light rail with vehicles… that’s why they have been systematically removed all over the world. It somewhat worked back when cars were a rarity, and they could safe;y share the road, but not when truck and car volumes reached a certain point. Dedicated and separated rail transport have been the best option since that time, and it’s only penny pinching that has resulted in light rail being reintroduced
@@just_passing_throughI can give you at least three examples across the world where light rail still mixes with car traffic. But I agree, dedicated corridors are still best. And how is it penny pinching? Light rail systems are not a cheaper version of heavy rail, they serve a different purpose. Yeah, there are examples of it being used for the wrong purpose (particularly in the US), but in Sydney, it's correctly used mostly.
@@ziggybadans The fact that we’ve had multiple collisions between light rail vehicles and cars (and even emergency vehicles) shows how it’s not acceptable. Light rail utilising existing roads (and removing existing lanes for cars in the process) is millions/billions of dollars cheaper than extending underground rail networks.
You raise some good points @@just_passing_through. I would just say that motor vehicles crash with each other all the time, though. And not all cities use underground tunnels for trains, so in those cities it wouldn't be a case of expensive underground train tunnelling vs laying 'cheap' tram lines.
the makeover of the Sirius is horrific. I worked right next door to it for years and commuted past it every day on the north shore line for even more years. It had always been one of my favourite buildings in Sydney. Apparently you can ignore heritage rules if you fill the right pockets with cash, I guess?
I know that first tunnel closest to the fence well; I still shoot there every other weekend with my club. It was converted into a 25 metre pistol range many years ago and is still used for this purpose today (we need to wear double hearing protection when the range is in use as it is extremely loud in there with the gunshots echoing around the cavernous concrete tunnel).
It looks like they are getting it ready for something, pre COVID I worked in North Sydney and I used to walk arccos the bridge an back again during my lunch break. it looked a lot more abandoned back then.
Great video. How about you try and do a video of the St James underground "unused rail platforms". But then again, they were built as bomb shelters in WW2. And I doubt that anybody would tell you of their existence. But hey, they DO exist.
Hi, if not alfeady mensioned, those standoffs in the walls are called " Saftey Refuges"and were indeed for railway workers to duck into as traffic approached and went by. A great video mate.
The tunnel was used as a shooting range in the 80s. I remember seeing fat dudes with big moustaches hanging out at the table comparing paper targets. Im guessing they were cops
That was the Railway Institute Pistol Club. There was a 25m handgun range down the tunnel with clubroom on the left as you go in. I don't recall cops as members as they have their own ranges to use.
I believe that the sleepers from the harbour bridge tramways were used as the fence posts for the old wire fence down ( and up the other side) to Jenolan Caves , the Road. Please confirm ....
My father who died in his 80s, said the worst thing they ever did was remove trams for dam buses. Now spend billions replacing them when they go like snails and to stupid place's..
I seem to recall that the tracks were intended for a Peninsula Railway which was never built, the trams making use of the track instead until t he Cahill Expressway was built.
Nice video Phil, how did they get the trams on to the North Shore Line. I presume that they were built on the south side of the bridge. If Wynard was the last stop in to the city where was the entry point for the trams to join the North Shore Line. There is also the old section of tram way on the North Shore , adjacent to North Sydney Station and Blue Street leading city bound to a bridge ( now demolished) on to the Harbour Bridge.
Train and tram lines don't mix. The trains remained on their line on the western side of the bridge and the trams were on the eastern side of the bridge. There was a tram station at Milsons Point just a bit further towards the city, across the roadway, from the Milsons Point train station. From the the trams continued going further north whereby the trains turned left into North Sydney station.
It really makes you wonder why they got rid of the original Sydney trams in the first place in the late 50's/early 60's cos now they are back as light rail!
Because cars and buses were the future. And advisors from London (a city with a massive underground and overground train system) and the US apparently agreed. With the amount of cars on the roads increasing, and with a lot of Sydney's main roads being 2 or 3 lanes, some rationalisation of the tram system was probably in order. But they didn't need to remove the total tram system, and burn the trams and rip up/bury the tracks so quickly. They didn't even keep a line open for historic/tourist purposes, although we should be thankful some were preserved.
Thanks. Melbourne boy here. But I did live in Sydney a long time ago for a couple of years. I found the city so interesting with so many historical secrets. Particularly the railways and roads. Every time I go back, I still discover new things.
There was a great piece of graffiti just outside the portals. "Sack Pig Iron Bob (Menzies). Vote 1 Communist". It was painted over before the 2000 Olympics.
Yep, I remember seeing this numerous times when I walked across the 'Bridge; my dad explained to me as a kid what it meant. I'm surprised that graffiti wasn't heritage listed or something.
Thank you for this. My recollection is that the tram tracks took the same approach as the present train tracks - one track either side of the pylons. Is that corect?
It's for the shooting club members who still use the pistol range in the first tunnel. The range is very loud inside due to the echos of the shots bouncing around the concrete tunnel walls, so the tables are used for members to chill out between shooting sessions.
Having walked that path you took hundreds of times but not lately I remember some old graffiti at the northern end of that grated area and the graffiti said “down with pig iron bob”,bob being Bob Menzies liberal prime minister in the 1950s and early 1960s ,pig iron because he sold scrap metal to Japan just prior to the 2nd world war so the term was not endearing. Now painted over and gone forever.
Sadly Sydney is slowly being stripped of it’s identity. I like the idea of bringing back trams but it doesn’t mean they have to destroy everything good in the process. Next the QVB building will be demolished to house the LBQTI alphabet league or something.
Yes, an idiotic comment. Inaccurate too, given that very many ‘alphabet’ people (as you so charmingly put it) have a great appreciation for our history and identity. Or are you trying to suggest that people who don’t fit your expectations are somehow antithetical to Sydney’s ‘identity’?
why does everyone have to make negative comments about the present when enjoying the past . And i don't think there is any change of the QVB being demolished . and even if it was what the hell does that paticular community have to do with anything
Great vid. My then girlfriend in the early 1980s used to regularly shoot at what was then a shooting range (perfect for one of these) in the blanked off tunnel nearest to you in the vid. I had the occasional shoot in there, but Judith always amazed me, I called her 'Annie Oakley' due to her shooting ability (this is in reference to the real Annie Oakley (born Phoebe Ann Mosey; August 13, 1860 - November 3, 1926) she was an American sharpshooter and folk heroine who starred in Buffalo Bill's Wild West shows) - Judith regularly out shot the men much to their annoyance.
Also back then there was no fencing on the pedestrian walkway so there was a ton of graffiti on the now painted walls in front of you next to the tunnel entrances. Being a bit of a history buff even back then, amongst all the usual 'tags' etc was some large words brush painted in white saying 'Sack Pig Iron Bob'. This piece of 'graffiti' I realised was painted back in 1938! Know doubt by the wharfies here in Sydney in support of their Port Kembla colleagues who refused to load a steamer bound for Japan with Australian pig iron which would have been processed by the Japanese Govt as military hardware in the then Second Sino-Japanese War. This dispute with the wharfies and the Australian Govt. became famous for providing the nickname of Pig Iron Bob to Attorney General Robert Menzies, later Prime Minister! It's a shame that this this piece of 'graffiti' not that it would have been called that back in the day, which had survived for so long was not preserved as its historical significance is quite large when you think about it.
Buses 🚌 move many people ,light rail 🚈 and trains don't go..people take for granted ..don't pay their fare some ..do crazy stuff crossing roads .
I'm old enough to remember travelling in the tram across the bridge. I used to live in Milsons Point. I remember that the tram lines used to go up the Pacific Highway and there was a branch line that went up Miller St. North Sydney. I think that it was about 1957. Thank Phil, very interesting.
The Trams stopped running 5 months before I was born, if they stopped in 1958.
@@sharynmorgan944 I was 15 then.
I came down from the Country to Willoughby Sydney to my cousins place & travelled to the City by Tram - sort of as my Cousin got us of the Tram at Milson's Point & we WALKED across that damed bridge to save 6 pence! (5 cents).
He became an Economics Teacher.😂
@@billolgaau sixpence was the deposit on large drink bottles. ( about $1.20 today?) Threepence on the small bottles.
That would have been to service North Sydney Oval. I went there to watch Cronulla play Norths.
One sunny day I walked from Milsons Point to see for myself this old tram track. From Milsons Point there is some shuttered off stairs that was going up to the tram station, which was converted to the toll booths. It was a most enjoyable scenic walk with the option of going up the pylon in the city side to see from the top. Going down those stairs after the portals and ended up at The Rocks. It was easier than I though. Afterward I caught the train from Wynyard back to Milsons Point.
If I remember correctly, at the city end of the bridge the tunnels were used for a variety of matters, one I remember was that a tunnel was used as a pistol range for pistol clubs. I was a member of one of those pistol clubs and be assured they were more than safe as well as suitable for that purpose. We parked our cars in Cumberland Street and walked (or struggled) up the stairs to the range, did out target practice and left when we were finished. Great memories! Thanks for this clip and take care.
I was also a member of one of those clubs in the 90s, good times.
There was a pistol range the top floor of the Bank of NSW building on George Street at the bottom end of Martin Place.
They were simply called safety refuges.
It was only intended to be used for trams until the Northern Beaches railway line was built, at which time the tracks were to be converted to heavy rail, including removing the trestles that brought the trams up to platform level at Wynyard. The tracks were also to continue further south, but I'm not sure what the plan was.
Once the western harbour tunnel is opened, I believe that the eastern tracks across the bridge should be rebuilt as part of a more direct intercity route between Sydney and the Central Coast & Hunter.
Great viewing and information.
Thanks for sharing .
It was Bradfield's plan that the railway lines on the east side of the Harbour Bridge would be extended out to the Warringah area, but that never happened, so the rail corridor was instead co-opted by the North Sydney tram network to feed into the city via the bridge and the surplus platforms at Wynyard.
And residents today still do not want a train line out that way. I believe they will never see a rail line and persist with buses.
@@davidpalmer9780 I am a resident that lives there and wouldn't care if we have a train line. These videos talking about Bradfield's plan is the first I knew that there were supposed to be trains from Sydney. All my life I was told that there had been land set aside (sold off years ago) for a train line from Chatswood to Dee Why.
I really don't know how much is the residents as it is the current government that stopped the new tunnel being extended to the Northern Beaches and also cut the funding for the upgrade to one of the 3 roads that are the only ways in and out.
People object to more housing being put in in this area because transport is so limited and roads are already really congested. There is also the fact that there are quite a few areas that are bush fire zones and only have one road in so you don't want to be adding more traffic to those areas.
the metal thing is a stanchion base for the OHW, the rivets mean its OLD
That’s quite an interesting find there Phil. Thanks for pointing it out.
Hi Phil, thanks for a great video. This tram line was always a big favourite with me. It included the only underground tramway in Australia, which made it really special. just outside the tunnel, they had an extra tram stop, before crossing the bridge. I would love to see this area reused for light rail. I think they could easily run a shuttle light rail service between Wynyard and North Sydney, using the two original lanes across the bridge. This should reduce road traffic on the bridge and also be very handy for people traveling between the two locations. Anyway, all the very best. Rob in Melbourne Australia.
😡It was a dumb idea taking our old trams off.
It was a dumb idea ever mixing light rail with vehicles… that’s why they have been systematically removed all over the world. It somewhat worked back when cars were a rarity, and they could safe;y share the road, but not when truck and car volumes reached a certain point. Dedicated and separated rail transport have been the best option since that time, and it’s only penny pinching that has resulted in light rail being reintroduced
@@just_passing_throughI can give you at least three examples across the world where light rail still mixes with car traffic. But I agree, dedicated corridors are still best. And how is it penny pinching? Light rail systems are not a cheaper version of heavy rail, they serve a different purpose. Yeah, there are examples of it being used for the wrong purpose (particularly in the US), but in Sydney, it's correctly used mostly.
@@ziggybadans The fact that we’ve had multiple collisions between light rail vehicles and cars (and even emergency vehicles) shows how it’s not acceptable. Light rail utilising existing roads (and removing existing lanes for cars in the process) is millions/billions of dollars cheaper than extending underground rail networks.
You raise some good points @@just_passing_through. I would just say that motor vehicles crash with each other all the time, though. And not all cities use underground tunnels for trains, so in those cities it wouldn't be a case of expensive underground train tunnelling vs laying 'cheap' tram lines.
The motor car was the future of travel.
I recall the band, The Angels, filmed a video clip for their song, Underground, in the old abandoned rail/tram tunnels under Sydney
A great slice of Sydney history
Even the seats in showing the tunnels remind me of the seats they had at older stations in the 80's.
There was a tram stop immediately before entering the tunnel, and after exiting with seats similar to those we see here but without the table.
the makeover of the Sirius is horrific. I worked right next door to it for years and commuted past it every day on the north shore line for even more years. It had always been one of my favourite buildings in Sydney. Apparently you can ignore heritage rules if you fill the right pockets with cash, I guess?
Went to the Dark Spectrum Wynyard tunnels this year for Vivid Sydney and it was a really cool experience! Bit pricey though.
I know that first tunnel closest to the fence well; I still shoot there every other weekend with my club. It was converted into a 25 metre pistol range many years ago and is still used for this purpose today (we need to wear double hearing protection when the range is in use as it is extremely loud in there with the gunshots echoing around the cavernous concrete tunnel).
the less people know about that the better.
too many safety Karens in NSW
When I started working in Albert St. North Sydney, around March 1978, they were just ripping out the tram tracks so they could resurface the roadway.
Great video thanks for sharing.
Great Work, scheduled shared
Shame they didnt keep the tram going across the bridge would be a great tourist thing to do these days
It looks like they are getting it ready for something, pre COVID I worked in North Sydney and I used to walk arccos the bridge an back again during my lunch break. it looked a lot more abandoned back then.
Great video. How about you try and do a video of the St James underground "unused rail platforms". But then again, they were built as bomb shelters in WW2. And I doubt that anybody would tell you of their existence. But hey, they DO exist.
My late dad who passed in 87 , always said worse thing Sydney did was get rid of the trams
In the late 1980s I was a member of OOO pistol club and we used one of the tunnels as an indoor pistol range.
Awesome
Interesting video mate, thanks
Hi, if not alfeady mensioned, those standoffs in the walls are called " Saftey Refuges"and were indeed for railway workers to duck into as traffic approached and went by. A great video mate.
they’re called manholes 💯
The tunnel was used as a shooting range in the 80s. I remember seeing fat dudes with big moustaches hanging out at the table comparing paper targets. Im guessing they were cops
That was the Railway Institute Pistol Club. There was a 25m handgun range down the tunnel with clubroom on the left as you go in. I don't recall cops as members as they have their own ranges to use.
@@marticus2023 thanks for the correction mate. Cops back then had a certain appearance. What's with the giant moustache 🚔
you will see those nooks in train tunnels also..
I never knew about the tram line on our bridge.
Those "nooks" are called "safety refuges"
That’s the one!
Cheers mate :)
" they had tram warehouse near " central railway as well !" 😊
I believe that the sleepers from the harbour bridge tramways were used as the fence posts for the old wire fence down ( and up the other side) to Jenolan Caves , the Road. Please confirm ....
There is some old video out there showing Trams and Trains going over at the same time
It was a sad day when they were taken away. I remember them.
My father who died in his 80s, said the worst thing they ever did was remove trams for dam buses. Now spend billions replacing them when they go like snails and to stupid place's..
the show "the unlisted" was filmed in this exact spot, showing the inside and everything haha
I seem to recall that the tracks were intended for a Peninsula Railway which was never built, the trams making use of the track instead until t he Cahill Expressway was built.
Nice video Phil, how did they get the trams on to the North Shore Line. I presume that they were built on the south side of the bridge. If Wynard was the last stop in to the city where was the entry point for the trams to join the North Shore Line. There is also the old section of tram way on the North Shore , adjacent to North Sydney Station and Blue Street leading city bound to a bridge ( now demolished) on to the Harbour Bridge.
Train and tram lines don't mix. The trains remained on their line on the western side of the bridge and the trams were on the eastern side of the bridge. There was a tram station at Milsons Point just a bit further towards the city, across the roadway, from the Milsons Point train station. From the the trams continued going further north whereby the trains turned left into North Sydney station.
I walked past them this evening.
Pretty lucky to get that long of a video without being rained on in Sydney 😂😂😂😂
Good luck mate
Hahaha the rain is pretty persistent isn’t it!
Lucky indeed :)
Cheers for watching mate :)
If there was a tram line we should have kept, it was the northern beaches tram line.
interesting. I wonder why all the metal laying around (tracks and more in the safety refuges) isn't gathered and recycled?
That's Kool.😊
It’s remarkable how short people were 50 years ago.
It really makes you wonder why they got rid of the original Sydney trams in the first place in the late 50's/early 60's cos now they are back as light rail!
Because cars and buses were the future. And advisors from London (a city with a massive underground and overground train system) and the US apparently agreed. With the amount of cars on the roads increasing, and with a lot of Sydney's main roads being 2 or 3 lanes, some rationalisation of the tram system was probably in order. But they didn't need to remove the total tram system, and burn the trams and rip up/bury the tracks so quickly. They didn't even keep a line open for historic/tourist purposes, although we should be thankful some were preserved.
Very cool thank you. May I ask what the other archways that are directly in front of the footpath were for?
Thank you for watching :)
Through the arches are the bridge stairs down to The Rocks :)
Thanks. Melbourne boy here. But I did live in Sydney a long time ago for a couple of years. I found the city so interesting with so many historical secrets. Particularly the railways and roads. Every time I go back, I still discover new things.
Looks like can be 'revived' for metro to northern beaches
There was a great piece of graffiti just outside the portals. "Sack Pig Iron Bob (Menzies). Vote 1 Communist". It was painted over before the 2000 Olympics.
Yep, I remember seeing this numerous times when I walked across the 'Bridge; my dad explained to me as a kid what it meant. I'm surprised that graffiti wasn't heritage listed or something.
When diggig the road for the new light rail...work was stopped because they dug up the old ones.
Nice tree
was there a walkway as well
Thank you for this. My recollection is that the tram tracks took the same approach as the present train tracks - one track either side of the pylons. Is that corect?
Yes.
@@daveg2104 Thanks.
my aunt works at Wynyard
Who's using the outdoor table set-up?
Rail workers
They are there for hours
It's for the shooting club members who still use the pistol range in the first tunnel. The range is very loud inside due to the echos of the shots bouncing around the concrete tunnel walls, so the tables are used for members to chill out between shooting sessions.
Ooft!
Didntknow Menzies had gone😢
was such an idiotic decision to close down the tram system in Sydney ...just plain idiotic
Having walked that path you took hundreds of times but not lately I remember some old graffiti at the northern end of that grated area and the graffiti said “down with pig iron bob”,bob being Bob Menzies liberal prime minister in the 1950s and early 1960s ,pig iron because he sold scrap metal to Japan just prior to the 2nd world war so the term was not endearing. Now painted over and gone forever.
I wonder what they doing. They seem to being building something. ☮🏳🌈
Sadly Sydney is slowly being stripped of it’s identity. I like the idea of bringing back trams but it doesn’t mean they have to destroy everything good in the process. Next the QVB building will be demolished to house the LBQTI alphabet league or something.
No need for such a dismissive and illiterate comment. Try to be inclusive and at least informed.
Yes, an idiotic comment. Inaccurate too, given that very many ‘alphabet’ people (as you so charmingly put it) have a great appreciation for our history and identity. Or are you trying to suggest that people who don’t fit your expectations are somehow antithetical to Sydney’s ‘identity’?
More like the for the Chinese.. I think the original comment is trying to explain woke which is an anti western society movement
why does everyone have to make negative comments about the present when enjoying the past . And i don't think there is any change of the QVB being demolished . and even if it was what the hell does that paticular community have to do with anything
@@gdawwg1125they could build units on top of it. Wait about 10 years.
Just goes to show you how tram history is so destroyed for damm progress.damm the labour goverment of the day.
click bait!!!!!
No, if you listen to the video it explains that the tunnel is part of the Tram line that once ran over the Sydney Harbour Bridge….