Now that the children have left the room, let me say how much I appreciate your efforts. The live session will be interesting to watch and I am looking forward to it.
Thanks Dilbert. I had a hard time shortening the video as I wanted to talk about a lot more than I saw in the data that seriously intrigued me. But I am a data Geek! LOL
This is a significant contribution for many of us, and I would like to thank you for taking the time (which I am sure was and is still,...considerable), and effort in presenting such a comprehensive review of the many glue options available. Those companies that did well SHOULD be sending you a huge thank you, and enough glue to last you a life time.
LOL thanks man. a couple companies have contacted me wanting to sponsor this, but I thought that might not be a good thing. LOL it would be fun though.
5200 is great stuff in the right application. It's not really meant for bonding wood. For waterproofing fittings on a boat it is the best. Also, when using epoxy as a glue you can add wood flour (fine wood dust) and silicone powder to thicken it. It makes an amazing glue and will fill almost any gap.
I've been using TB III as my go to glue for many marine applications (paddles, gunwales on boats, etc etc) and have had good success, and more importantly no failures.... yet. So It surprises me to hear it failed in the "outdoor weathering" test you did. Now I have to rethink my construction. I have a great example sitting in my back yard, where I attached an ash gunwale (11 feet long, with a 16.5" bend, so it's under constant strong tension) to a sailboat, with nothing but TB III to hold it in place. I live in a climate that literally explores randomly wild extremes in temperature and moisture including being the coldest place on the planet from time to time, so I have exhibited a good deal of faith in the product, --- and looking at it in its storage place, having gone through one winter in place... it hasn't seemed to weaken (how could I tell unless it failed?). Maybe I should add some mechanical fasteners to it (screws) to ensure things stay in place??? Any chance your test was tainted?
The big benefit with 3 over 1 and 2 is that it will re-harden after being wet. But it will still fully soften and water. Most applications though have a mechanical method of holding the board in place. So that it stays where it is until it dries. And even then it would need to be fully soaked. All of these test blocks are only one inch by 3/4 in. So it's very easy for the water to fully absorb into the middle.
8:44 That's because in the Cyanoacrylate molecule, the acryl groups in the resin rapidly polymerise in the presence of water to form long, strong chains. Meaning when it comes into contact with the moisture in the wood it sets very fast before the end grain can absorb it completely into the wood. Protip: Baking soda causes the super glue to instantly set and it becomes much stronger because it donates carbon atoms to the superglue itself. That's a tip alot of model aircraft hobbyists use, because it gives ALOT of structural support.
Great to see the results. I use West Epoxy a lot for boat repair work and the only drawback is that it like many epoxy products it is a little susceptible to UV damage so you do need to cover it with something to provide UV protection. Thanks for doing the test - very interesting
I'm happy to hear that your homemade hide glue worked out so well. The main takeaway from the video solidified some of my current choices. I primarily restore antiques (clocks) and I always use hide glue for the repairs, and with newer pieces or laminations I use regular wood glue (PVA), which seems to have performed fairly well on your tests. I've used 2P-10 at a previous job and I know it's a really good quality glue, but the actual test results were surprising to hear (gap filling and exterior). The thin is mainly good to fill cracks or chips. We used it a lot with the activator when installing crown mouldings and baseboards. Just glue the joint perfectly, then brad nail it in place.
I'm kinda late to the party, but wanted to comment on the marine adhesive. I have not tried it on wood, but it is has phenomenal adhesive properties on most other materials. I used it to attach an ABS box to a Polyethylene surface. It has been exposed to sunlight and weathering for several years without failure. It is rather flexible and takes a couple of days to fully cure. Probably works better in a thick layer and I imagine it would bond well to wood finishes.
I'm watching a glue test at 11pm on a Saturday night and not ever regretting it. Way to go! Looking forward for the long term results of the super glues. Do you expect any difference in shear and pull strengths? I imagine if you glue a board (e.g. a table top) it would see more pull forces than shear forces? Keep it up - liking you channel the more I watch it.
Thanks. I should be starting that test here soon. there really is no wat yo test wood gluing in tension and separate the variables to focusing on the glue, but most all joints the pressure is in shear. it is a rare thing to have a joint in tension. so I am ok with it for now.
Most of us appreciate your valuable research. I'm sure 3M and others are looking for you in some dark alley. (lol) Currently I use West 105/205 and Titebond II but will be looking into adding 2P10 next to my single bottle of CA glue. Your results have modified how I'll use these resources in the future. It was a lot of work but greatly appreciated.
thanks Tyler. that means more then you know. there are not a lot of applications where Ca is useful, but where it is in the future I will not feel so bad using it now.
Extremely interesting James. Questions that need to be asked that would be hard to answer is how it holds up over a long span of years (50+?) for "heirloom pieces of furniture and also the "repair-ability" of the glue after a long period of time. Thanks for taking the time to put all of this together. Was fascinating to see the spreadsheet numbers.
that will be the next test. I will be gluing up a few of the key glues and be testing them every few years and just leave them in the garage for many many cycles of expansion and contraction.
Wood By Wright way to keep us in suspense....Speaking of being inpatient, I'd love to see dry time tests. Like how quick could I pick up and start working after a glue up.
Well, when we'll have that answer (in 50 years) most of those glue will not be comercially avaiable anyway so are data on this really important ? The only exception being hide glue of course. Testing the reversibillity of the glues for repair would tell much more IMHO Just my 2cts...
that will be an upcoming test. but PVAs have been around for over 100 years, and superglues are here to stay so the data will be well worth it. plus we can get incremental data as i test it every 6 months. probably won't be scheduled to go much longer than 20 years. at that point, you should have a solid idea.
Hello Mr. Wright, I am 72 years old and when I was a kid in the 1950's, My Dad was a wood boat builder on the coast. they constructed wooden planked Boats up to 90 feet. There was a Glue they used back then put out by Weld Wood that was a Light Brown powder, you mixed with water. It got as hard as Wood Pecker Lips. I can remember one of the men in the shop would glue scraps of wood together , tie a string to it, after it dried, of course, and throw it in the river, where it would stay for up to 2 weeks. Then he would pull it out and attempt to break it with a hammer by hitting it very hard. It would only bust the wood. Never did it come a lose at the glued joint or flat places, where some were glued just on top of another block. I have looked for this and recently found it by ordering it from Walmart. They do not carry it in the Store. I am not sure if it is the same stuff. The picture showed it in a plastic tub, where, when I was a kid, it came in a tin Paint can. Before all the plastic containers. haha You might want to check it out. I have got to glue in a neck on a Gibson guitar and am thinking of ordering this glue for a test. I have had the TiteBonds turn alose on me. I am not happy with Tite Bond glue. Okay, Thank You and I enjoyed your Review,
Definitely interested in seeing how the construction adhesive performs for those of us without heated shops . It may be ugly and hard to clean up, but it will properly cure in the cold.
Well, you certainly worked your way out of that sticky mess. Your marathon skills show. The CA glue results are a surprise for long to long and gap filling, I imagine a bit pricey per square inch. On a “hold for buck” the tried and try PVAs did well except outside. Thanks so much for all your efforts.
Epic video. Sounds like TB3 is just a work horse for the shop. A solid PVA glue that can gap fill if needed. Meanwhile epoxy for outdoor use and super glue for fixing mistakes
You can find Titebond III in gallon size on Amazon and Home Depot websites. TB3 is significantly more expensive than the $23 gallon of TB2 I bought off Amazon though.
Lowes also sells TB3 in gallons around here, but it's about 1.5x the price. The only reason I've bought it for interior projects was that it claims to have a longer open time than TB2 (10 minutes vs 5 for TB2/1). But I think after this I'll be switching to TB2 for most interior projects! Thanks for the great test!
Thanks James! I now have scientific data to justify my next epoxy purchase to the Mrs. "Well dear, you don't want our farmhouse table falling apart in a year because I saved money and bought a less performing glue, now would you?"
One thing is that you test only pure shear resistance. CA glues perform well there but are very brittle and won't handle well alternating load or shocks. From my experience they are especially bad at vibrations even in a full tenon-mortise joint. Similarly contact glues which did so badly here handle flexion in laminated surfaces extremely well (hide glues too, and they are better in every other way so perhaps not a redeeming value) . This a a very interesting test you did, and a useful one but it is only a partial view of the strengths and weakness of glues.
very true. I am planning on doing shock stets in the future, but it is only wise to test one parameter at a time. I have a whole long list that will eb coming out in the next year or two looking at all kinds of other rankings including a long-term 20+ year study.
A trick I use when I need a shatter resistant gluing with CA is to leave in the joint a gap big enough to fill it with nitrile dust (elastomer) and then use the finest CA to glue by capillarity. it won't flex but will handle some level of shocks. Very useful when gluing dissimilar materials in flexion.
As a lifelong model airplane builder (control line and radio control) and a sailor for most of my life, your results don't surprise me much. The 3M 5200 is a very impressive adhesive for its intended purposes but I have not heard of it being recommended for wood to wood gluing. It excels for bonding fiberglass to metals and fiberglass to teak. CA glues tend to be very strong in a linear pull but empirical experience has demonstrated in the RC community that it is very brittle and the accelerator makes it even more brittle. Shock loads like a hard landing tend to break the CA. Of course, that is a very different application than yours. Many model airplane builders prefer Titebond because it does have some flexibility and works extremely well for bonding balsa to balsa, aircraft birch ply, basswood and spruce. Again, empirical results demonstrate that Titebond does not tend to break like CA. Lots of other modelers use CA because they don't have the patience of a woodworker and expect instant gratification from everything including adhesives. One of my airplanes was built in 1981 with Titebond and some epoxy when necessary and it's still in flying condition. Boat builders have learned that epoxy has to be protected from sunlight. Sunlight will pipe into an epoxy seam and deteriorate the glue over time. There seem to be lots of woodworkers that like 5 minute epoxies but in mu experience it is a poor performer over the long term. It tends to discolor to an orange hue and when that happens it has almost always weakened or failed. I've been able to peel old 5 minute form the insides of models even where sunlight would not have been a factor. Little or no wood grain comes with the old glue. One final thought. A garage door installer told me to install a header to get the opening ready for him. I screwed and glued a piece of yellow pine in as directed using Titebond, only to find out later that he told me the wrong size. The Titebond proved to be far stronger than the yellow pine which was split and destroyed when I attempted to remove it. A chisel was required to pare the wood off of the adjoining piece.
Outstanding test James. Thanks for sharing. What's interesting is that the PVA glue was invented about 100 years ago by some German dudes and the formula has been virtually unchanged since then.
Exactly. I tested it unscientifically some years ago with a shear test and was surprised. I thought it would snap but the wood sheared instead. Your Cheap Super Glue test surprised me as well. Who knew? Lol! You may have initiated a run on that stuff by woodworkers at the Dollar Store all by yourself. :)
James i have to thank you , my patience was no where near yours to do this test lolll . Now i no witch gloo to take for my projects in the future . The fake one have bean pointed out thanks to your devotion 😉👍🏼🇨🇦
I was surprised a bit at the TiteBond III performance outside. Maybe it would be better under finish, but this is a good word of caution there. Really appreciate your thoroughness. Stick with the great work. I just had to say that.
From my view I have a degree in chemistry and physics, and you have done an outstanding job. Well done! You've probably already thought of it, but I could recommend writing this up and submitting it to some of the wood working magazines. This is great information that would get a whole lot of badly needed extra exposure. There are so many adhesives on the market that the average user really has little clue as to how well any of these works. Thanks James. I'm a great fan of yours.
There is a lot of real world hide glue long term testing. There are thousand of antiques that were put together with hide glue over 100 years ago and these pieces still hold together and can be repaired. That fact says a lot. I think all furniture of value should only use hide glue because of repair-ability. Also, I have built many wooden boat using epoxy below the waterline and Titebond III above the water line. Some of these boats are over 20 years old and not one joint ever failed.
Wow. You did a great job. Putting together a DOE and executing like this is not easy. Thank you for doing it! Now I am going to check out the updated video with more glues added!
Some interesting results. Particularly with the CA glue. I have used it for cracks by squeezing a bit in while sanding. Also have used it to raise the string action on guitar nuts by using it and baking soda to fill the slots and then re filing.
I was really looking forward to this video series and you didn't disappoint. I was not surprised with the homemade glue or CA glue. I was surprised with the Titebond though. I have been woodworking for forty years and have great faith in PVA glue or what many across the pond call school glue or white glue and rarely find the need for Yellow glue plus the staining is such a bugger. I don't know, maybe it's as you said in a previous issue is that it really comes down to the quality of the join/joint of which, not all of mine are perfect. PU glue will work, but not as a gap filler. More wood around the joint is best for that LOL. Thanks, James for a great and informative experiment.
Soooo the answer is... GLUE HOLDS? Seriously though this was a great test and the results surprised me. Thanks for doing such a good job. Unless I need something to hold my JD 1025R in the air, I think most of the tried and true glues will do the job, even hide. I view glue like clamp pressure. 99.635% of the time it just needs to do its job, not mush the crap out of something. Long term and weather test long term is the key, and I think you covered or are covering that. As said, 30+ years of PVA is out there. I really liked this test as now I can show the younger ones, yea I'm older, "see the glue I've been telling you to use works". You can't counter real data. Glue, between two guys at the Guild is like guns, religion, cars, tractors and screw heads, rarely is there consensus. Great Job!
This is some valuable information! I'm glad you had the patience and tenacity to see the meticulous tests through because I certainly would have cracked under the pressure 😂
I would have never thought super glue gel would be a great wood glue. One suggestion test the top glues with a shock load, that would probably separate the glues further. In my experience super glues don’t fare well with shock loads.
thanks. That test is actually on the list for the future. we will see. I am more interested in long-term aging of the glue. I am about to set up a test for the next 20 years to test that too.
I only use cyanoacrylate glues when nothing else will stick. They have been handy, and the bonds they make tend to be very strong, but based on my experience, for general use I have found them to be overly brittle. I can see how for certain types of joint they, or at least some of them, might be really good for tight, stiff bonds, but wood glues (PVA, et al.) are less expensive, make just about as strong a bond (the wood should break first), and are much nicer to deal with (more time to work with, easy to clean, won't instantly bond to your skin, etc.). Yes, it would be interesting to see how "super glues" and wood hold up to shock loads, because they've always seemed quite brittle and not as strong (as in tough or durable) overall (the glues themselves) as many others.
That's some awesome effort! Strength aside, I'm a committed proponent of hide glue as it is right in there with the "right to repair" movement. Thanks to hide glue, I can still repair any antique furniture including (if I ever need to) the furniture made by my great grandfather and there's no other glue that can beat that test!
One of the issues I can see with cheap super glue is the consistency from tube to tube or batch to batch. It's such a small amount that any variation in the way it's made or packaged could make a big difference in end result.
that is true. I do not intend to use it but rather use 2P10 I trust their manufacturing more. but I am interested to see what the outcome is on the long-term test.
I am pursuing a traditional viking shield build. Typically they would use hide glue or casein glue. They would make it themselves, so it probably would match your homemade hide glue. But these tests are solely testing pure sheer strength, not impacts, vibrations, staying glued after being attacked with an axe or sword or arrow, or other factors for a shield. Shields need flexibility, sheer strength, impact strength, and resistance to water and cold. And damage resistance to stay glued despite damage. Vikings would stand on their shields and they would hold the weight, so I guess the tests show that. What do you think would make a good shield glue now that we have modern glues alongside older natural glues? Viking shields need to be flexible, impact resistance, have a lot of traditional sheer strength, and they need to be cold and water resistant. But of course they don’t have to be submerged or left in the rain for more than an hour or two in a battle or during a hike, because you would keep it in your tent. I suppose that they do need to be cold proof, and rain is unavoidable on a longship. I am going off of ASFOLK’s work, ThegnThrand, and Roland Warwecha, all three worked together to ressurect a traditionally made shield. Traditional shields were very thin, tapered, and were made from planks that were edge joined then covered with rawhide then given fittings and finish such as handle which provided some extra structure and strength as well.
nice. I do want to do further tests on shock and other types of strain. but for the most part in that condition my go to would be EcoPoxy. it is an extreamly flexible epoxy and is water poof and will have a stronger bond the most all woods. but it is not very traditional. hide glue is actually extreamly resilient and flexible, but much of any time in the rain would weekend it considerably. that is one of the reasons some cultures would wrap things made for the outside in leather to protect the glue.
It’s strange I have been using super glue for ages now and always loved it for my woodwork especially on small fiddly bits but I’ve used it in bigger pieces as well, fantastic test James and your commitment is astonishing!!
Weld bond & Titebonds “multi surface” glue! I just picked up titebonds multisurface thick/quick glue. That stuff rocks! I was gluing up some outside miters for baseboard/recessed paneling 1x and decided 2 corners in let me grab my Collins miter clamps, quick clamps and try out this “clear drying” multi-surface titebond. First off it sets in minutes vs titebond 2 which is about 10 min let’s say. So you don’t have much time to play with it. I glued, miter clamped, brad nailed, then quick clamped to get the miter extra tight. I gave them an hour before I took them to the wall bc I had plenty more to cut/cope. When it came time to glue/nail them to the wall dayyyyyymn! The miters were super solid! Not one opened back up, & I was able to bend the pine & partially the poplar to get them squared & leveled to the rest of the panaling/wall (wavy ass framing!?) I was very glad with the results. I went back around and used the multi-surface to fill in any miters/butts that I didn’t clamp off wall earlier bc it’s so thick. We will see down the road when the house finishes settling/acclimating & then again in a year or so. It’s my friends house so I’ll be able to check my work 😆 another carpenter/woodworker I follow on YT says he has been using Weldbond for many applications & is very impressed! I have to pick a bottle up to check it out & also grab some more fancy CA glues to play with. Dope vid btw! I am one for statistics so this was right on par with how I would of went about the comparison!
There's a lot of good thought in the comments. One thing I wondered, seeing some of the longevity discussion (I won't be here in 50 years to see your final longevity results...) was the performance of some of the more modern glues in Luthier applications. Even more, I'd like to see a test of the effects of various glues on musical tone transmission. Some videos discussing glues out there are clearly put on by the companies making the glue, and that gets a little sticky.
Another feature related to gap filling is that you can make a matching 'putty' by filling a gap with titebond III and sanding it while it's still wet. The dust from sanding mixes with the glue and matches well with the rest of the wood. And TB III dries pretty quickly so it's not like you have to stand there sanding it for forever. All you have to do is go over it again with a fresh piece of sandpaper after it's dry.
Fantastic video. Thank you for putting so much time and energy in to this one. The results for Titebond 3 outdoors were surprising and I would've never guessed. Cheers!
Great information. I've been using Bob Smith slow cure epoxy and so far I really like it. I was scared of the low price ($14 for 9ozs on ebay) but a lot of good reviews and it hasn't done any different than any other epoxy I have used.
Excellent work; lots of surprises and interesting data points. This will certainly affect how I use glues in the future. These tests are a great service to woodworkers everywhere, and I hope they get you a ton of new subscribers. I think it would be neat if in your live feed or some other video you showed footage of some of the actual tests being done. It wouldn't provide any new information that isn't in your raw data, but I think people would enjoy watching the procedure.
I took a glimpse at the data and did not notice anything about temperature or humidity. Did you keep everything at a constant temp and humidity? I wonder if high/low temp and humidity could effect the results. Great work, keep it up.
yes. I mentioned that in the video where I covered the prosses. I kept the humidity at 40% and the temp at 70F for all tests except the exterior as they were tested wet raising the room humidity. testing the changes is a test I want to do in the future.
Pre soak your joint with warm low viscosity epoxy or you joint will dry out leave it 15 minutes, do it again, now mix fumed silica with your epoxy untill peanut butter consistency, add to your joint, you could also add a little glass, don't clamp tight just snug now test your gap fill and strength, the only draw back is heat 160 degrees it will start to sag,
Let me start by saying I loved this study on glue. I'm a researcher by training and a woodworker by self education. This study smashed both of my passions into one thing. I'm glad the cheap super did well. I made some dice towers for some board gamer friends a while back and the wood was thin and the only way I could hold them in place was cheap super glue I had (clamps cause too much bending). One issue I had was any stray super glue showed when I added oil to the wood. So be careful. NO SQUEEZE OUT!
thanks. I am the other way around woodworker by trade and researcher by hobby. although most of the studies I have done delt with destructive testing. so that is always fun!
Wood By Wright yea I will definitely be taking a look! I am surprised by the titebond II outside... I carve foam duck decoys and you paint it with titebond II and cover in sawdust to make a hard and strong shell that can sit in the water... maybe I'll have to reconsider my glue! Also, looking for the best glue to laminate the limbs for longbows, hmmmmm
Wow! Great test! Thanks for doing this and for publishing your data! I just built two patio tables and used Titebond III for the glue up. If I had seen your video before that, I would have used something else. Live and learn!
thanks. Same here. I had two furniture builds fail in the past. I chalked them up to bad construction as they were some of my first. now I may replace the blame.
Thanks heaps for your video. I found this absolutely invaluable as I was asked to repair a long grain to long grain crack in a mahogany dining table and wanted to know the strength test on the different glues. Amazing keep up the good work!
Correct. But to get solid evidence you need to eliminate variable and so in this case I eliminated the other connection capabilities to get a solid base mark..
This data is going straight into Minitab as soon as I can. I’d really like to run stats on it. The superglue surprised me. I’ve seen test results from reliable sources that always had Type III pva’s on top. Type I close behind. Epoxy came in third. I trust your results though, you showed us everything but the assembly. I also like the amount of data that you ran. I’m expert in gelatin manufacturing (hide glue). It has surprising properties. It’s a lot tougher than anyone gives it credit for. Hot water is its enemy though Keep up the good work and the great content.
Well done James. Like you, I think I will stay with PVA for my day to day glue ups. and use CA for quick jobs. It's also economics . If the PVA gives you the strength you need then the cliché fit for purpose. Thanks for the time and trouble.
According to a book I have by Robert Lento (Woodworking: Tools, Fabrication, Design and Manufacture) he claims that thicker glues work better on woods with less pores, like the maple you used or oily hardwoods, while more open woods take thinner glues better. His statement is that the more open and dry the wood, the more it sucks away the moisture from the thinner glues which thickens them into a stronger, closer joint in that situation. Also I think you may need another rig to do a "pull" test... and maybe see if you can borrow AvE's torquestruct-o-matic for another "twist" on the test. PS: I think it's kind of funny that he did a lot of testing on what frees stuck nuts and bolts recently, now we have your test... WD-40 and Superglue remain as the kings of "always have it in your toolbox" haha
I am going to be testing other woods soon that will be interesting to see. as to tencel strength, there is not much use for it in woodworking most all joints stress the joint in shear. also, it is almost impossible to separate just the glue as a variable that way. but who knows I may come up with a rig for that someday.
Great stuff here. Thanks for your time and effort and dollars for our benefit. Were the PVA glues given adequate time to cure prior to outside testing? These are emulsion products and if insufficiently dry they remain soft, which is a problem inside the joint where air exposure and moisture loss can be quite slow. They may have been sticky because they were never fully dry. Any kind of exposure to an alkaline substance may have also affected these glues even when fully cured, with a similar gummy result, so results could be situation-dependent depending on environmental exposures. Also, please consider adding a waterless UF glue to your test group. Powdered UF glues are mixed with water that can cause swelling and grain raising issues that can apply pressures on the joints well beyond those in your test. Like other viewers, would be curious to hear about clamping pressure & glue line thickness as well.
Thanks. I will have two UF glues in the series I am working on right now. yes, all the glues had more than their required cure time before going outside. all of them were applied for at least a week before going to the elements. as to clamping pressure I used the manufacturers suggested pressure with the use of adjustable spring clamps. if the manufacturer did not suggest a pressure I chose 180PSI as that was close to the middle of most glues when using hardwood.
Valuable data! Thank you! I wonder if the super glue would differ in bond strength on kiln-dry vs greener wood? In particular, the poor PVA performance is a shocker to me, but I have been using epoxy more often lately. People are also using super glue online with talcum powder and other fillers to make super hard fill putty. Super stuff! Again, thanks for your hard work. This is a gift!
Interested to see a response from any of the manufacturers, particularly 3m about why their outdoor glue performed so badly. They may file it under bad batch, or bad storage, or bad application, or hopefully suggest a different procedure.
WELL DONE! 2P10 suddenly is becoming my choice for things I've had difficulty and huge disappointments over based on your tests. The glue manufacturers need your input to take away some of their haughtiness and reduce prices to Dollar General levels now. I was dumbfounded to see the numbers on that expensive epoxy and its lack of performance.
I know. there were a lot of surprises. I will soon be setting up a long-term test to see how a few key glues react to 20+ years. but it will take a long time to collect that data. LOL
I really appreciate the effort you made in your tests. I would like to hear your thoughts about the ease of use, clean up, and waste factors that would help decide an over all best in class. Id like to hear a discussion about having to use activators and do they affect the wood color, how much gets wasted due to clogging in the applicator i.e. CA glue, or hardening in the container. I personally have never used an entire container of CA glues or Hide glues because off premature hardening or shelf life Issues. Thanks, Alan
ya there are a lot of other parameters I would like to test in the future. this test was just focusing on strength, but there will be other tests in the future.
If you do this again, additional data to consider collecting might be room temperature, room humidity, wood type, clamping force, ect.. Obviously this would be an insane amoutn of work unless you automated some of the process. Using a machine learning algo might be a good way to analyze the data, and show weirdness, if you end up with more variables. Also a stress test might be interesting. Apply a lower than "expected" breaking force several time repeatedly up to 10 times. Maybe 3/4 of expected breaking force. Also you might even intentionally vary the clamping force as you go (if you end up doing a lot of examples). Using regression you can tease out the relationship between the clamping force, the force to break, the glue, and all the other variables.
Thnaks man! All of those variables were recorded. all clamping was done to the pressure specified by the Manufacturer. If no specification they were clamped at 10PSI Room humidity was at 40% (+/-5%) and the room was at 70 degrees F (+/-1) I will be doing future tests with different woods to see how grain structure affects it. A stress test and a shock test are both on the list as well Long-term study transparency wood sizing, reversibility, open time, and clamping force. It will take years to get through it all but I love good data. maybe one of these days I will get an assistant just for this. LOL we will see.
Apparently rabbit-skin glue is up to 4 times tougher than bone/hide glue, that would make it a contestant closer to the top ranks. Also adding alum to hide/skin/bone glues should make it water resistant once cured. Might be a good, natural alternative to epoxy for outside use.
I haven't tried rabbit hide glue. But I might have to. The ones I had were deer and cow. I have another test where I tested alum and it did not benefit the exterior used much at all. Slightly better but not by much.
Oh and I've watched a couple of videos from a German guy who does restaurations on old furniture and he said how you treat the hide/bone/fish glue changes how effective it glues dramatically. He uses watered down bone glue on both sides of the surfaces, then has a less viscous one with less water to actually glue the pieces together. He activates the already settled, thinned glue on the surfaces with a heat gun. Not sure if that complex approach really helps much, but he seems to be the most experienced person I could find on the internet when it comes to hide/bone/skin glue, using it for approx. 30+ years for his professional work.
This is an incredible amount of work! Thank you James. If you do anything in the future I'd be curious about how something like Liquid Nails would perform. Also, what was the consistency of the cheap superglue? Since it did well, I assume it was not very thin?
The titebond 3 results outside really surprised me. Maybe it's waterproof but not freeze proof? Be interesting to see how it performs after a bout of spring/rainy season weather.
Here is the updated test with 32 more glues added to the list: th-cam.com/video/JFEPTPTtFsw/w-d-xo.html
Might get some 'stuck up' responses from people who get 'unglued' by your tests . But keep right on 'sticking it' to them !
LOL. Thanks man
Hey James, this is an important piece of work. Thanks a lot for doing it!
Thanks Rex. It was a ton of fun.
I'm sure you're used to hearing this, buy you and I have VASTLY different ideas of fun.
LOL I don't know what you mean!
Now that the children have left the room, let me say how much I appreciate your efforts. The live session will be interesting to watch and I am looking forward to it.
Thanks Dilbert. I had a hard time shortening the video as I wanted to talk about a lot more than I saw in the data that seriously intrigued me. But I am a data Geek! LOL
A Geek who lives off grid, right ?
This is a significant contribution for many of us, and I would like to thank you for taking the time (which I am sure was and is still,...considerable), and effort in presenting such a comprehensive review of the many glue options available. Those companies that did well SHOULD be sending you a huge thank you, and enough glue to last you a life time.
LOL thanks man. a couple companies have contacted me wanting to sponsor this, but I thought that might not be a good thing. LOL it would be fun though.
For somebody totally new like myself it was a fascinating piece of research that in all probability has saved me money. Thank you very much indeed.
Thanks. My pleasure!
Clue tests every 6 months for the next 20 years!? YES, SIR!
I know. That sounds like a lot of fun to me.
5200 is great stuff in the right application. It's not really meant for bonding wood. For waterproofing fittings on a boat it is the best. Also, when using epoxy as a glue you can add wood flour (fine wood dust) and silicone powder to thicken it. It makes an amazing glue and will fill almost any gap.
So basically super glue is super awesome!!! Congratulations on the test James - that is some amount of work.
ya who would have thought. I was blown away by the outcomes. looking forward to doing a long-term test on it.
Congratulations on your red carpet, oscar winner, protracted introduction - fantastic. Almost had me in tears...!
I've been using TB III as my go to glue for many marine applications (paddles, gunwales on boats, etc etc) and have had good success, and more importantly no failures.... yet.
So It surprises me to hear it failed in the "outdoor weathering" test you did.
Now I have to rethink my construction. I have a great example sitting in my back yard, where I attached an ash gunwale (11 feet long, with a 16.5" bend, so it's under constant strong tension) to a sailboat, with nothing but TB III to hold it in place.
I live in a climate that literally explores randomly wild extremes in temperature and moisture including being the coldest place on the planet from time to time, so I have exhibited a good deal of faith in the product, --- and looking at it in its storage place, having gone through one winter in place... it hasn't seemed to weaken (how could I tell unless it failed?).
Maybe I should add some mechanical fasteners to it (screws) to ensure things stay in place???
Any chance your test was tainted?
The big benefit with 3 over 1 and 2 is that it will re-harden after being wet. But it will still fully soften and water. Most applications though have a mechanical method of holding the board in place. So that it stays where it is until it dries. And even then it would need to be fully soaked. All of these test blocks are only one inch by 3/4 in. So it's very easy for the water to fully absorb into the middle.
8:44 That's because in the Cyanoacrylate molecule, the acryl groups in the resin rapidly polymerise in the presence of water to form long, strong chains. Meaning when it comes into contact with the moisture in the wood it sets very fast before the end grain can absorb it completely into the wood. Protip: Baking soda causes the super glue to instantly set and it becomes much stronger because it donates carbon atoms to the superglue itself. That's a tip alot of model aircraft hobbyists use, because it gives ALOT of structural support.
Very true!
James, if ya didn't already know; Popular Woodworking mentioned you / this vid this morn. That's 2 or 3 times now, you da man, the machine the legend.
Lol yup. I'll be doing a blog post for them soon.
heck yeah, thats up there if ya ask me
Great to see the results. I use West Epoxy a lot for boat repair work and the only drawback is that it like many epoxy products it is a little susceptible to UV damage so you do need to cover it with something to provide UV protection. Thanks for doing the test - very interesting
Very true. Adult a plane with West system and you had to be very picky about the paint you used to make sure it would actually block out the UV.
I'm happy to hear that your homemade hide glue worked out so well. The main takeaway from the video solidified some of my current choices. I primarily restore antiques (clocks) and I always use hide glue for the repairs, and with newer pieces or laminations I use regular wood glue (PVA), which seems to have performed fairly well on your tests. I've used 2P-10 at a previous job and I know it's a really good quality glue, but the actual test results were surprising to hear (gap filling and exterior). The thin is mainly good to fill cracks or chips. We used it a lot with the activator when installing crown mouldings and baseboards. Just glue the joint perfectly, then brad nail it in place.
It was a lot of fun to see the if assumptions lived up to reality.
I'm kinda late to the party, but wanted to comment on the marine adhesive. I have not tried it on wood, but it is has phenomenal adhesive properties on most other materials. I used it to attach an ABS box to a Polyethylene surface. It has been exposed to sunlight and weathering for several years without failure. It is rather flexible and takes a couple of days to fully cure. Probably works better in a thick layer and I imagine it would bond well to wood finishes.
I'm watching a glue test at 11pm on a Saturday night and not ever regretting it. Way to go! Looking forward for the long term results of the super glues. Do you expect any difference in shear and pull strengths? I imagine if you glue a board (e.g. a table top) it would see more pull forces than shear forces? Keep it up - liking you channel the more I watch it.
Thanks. I should be starting that test here soon. there really is no wat yo test wood gluing in tension and separate the variables to focusing on the glue, but most all joints the pressure is in shear. it is a rare thing to have a joint in tension. so I am ok with it for now.
Most of us appreciate your valuable research. I'm sure 3M and others are looking for you in some dark alley. (lol) Currently I use West 105/205 and Titebond II but will be looking into adding 2P10 next to my single bottle of CA glue. Your results have modified how I'll use these resources in the future. It was a lot of work but greatly appreciated.
thanks Tyler. that means more then you know. there are not a lot of applications where Ca is useful, but where it is in the future I will not feel so bad using it now.
Extremely interesting James. Questions that need to be asked that would be hard to answer is how it holds up over a long span of years (50+?) for "heirloom pieces of furniture and also the "repair-ability" of the glue after a long period of time. Thanks for taking the time to put all of this together. Was fascinating to see the spreadsheet numbers.
that will be the next test. I will be gluing up a few of the key glues and be testing them every few years and just leave them in the garage for many many cycles of expansion and contraction.
Wood By Wright way to keep us in suspense....Speaking of being inpatient, I'd love to see dry time tests. Like how quick could I pick up and start working after a glue up.
that would be interesting
Well, when we'll have that answer (in 50 years) most of those glue will not be comercially avaiable anyway so are data on this really important ?
The only exception being hide glue of course.
Testing the reversibillity of the glues for repair would tell much more IMHO
Just my 2cts...
that will be an upcoming test. but PVAs have been around for over 100 years, and superglues are here to stay so the data will be well worth it. plus we can get incremental data as i test it every 6 months. probably won't be scheduled to go much longer than 20 years. at that point, you should have a solid idea.
Hello Mr. Wright, I am 72 years old and when I was a kid in the 1950's, My Dad was a wood boat builder on the coast. they constructed wooden planked Boats up to 90 feet. There was a Glue they used back then put out by Weld Wood that was a Light Brown powder, you mixed with water. It got as hard as Wood Pecker Lips. I can remember one of the men in the shop would glue scraps of wood together , tie a string to it, after it dried, of course, and throw it in the river, where it would stay for up to 2 weeks. Then he would pull it out and attempt to break it with a hammer by hitting it very hard. It would only bust the wood. Never did it come a lose at the glued joint or flat places, where some were glued just on top of another block. I have looked for this and recently found it by ordering it from Walmart. They do not carry it in the Store. I am not sure if it is the same stuff. The picture showed it in a plastic tub, where, when I was a kid, it came in a tin Paint can. Before all the plastic containers. haha You might want to check it out. I have got to glue in a neck on a Gibson guitar and am thinking of ordering this glue for a test. I have had the TiteBonds turn alose on me. I am not happy with Tite Bond glue. Okay, Thank You and I enjoyed your Review,
That one is on my list for the next test. I ahve heard a few good things. I am looking forward to testing it!
I'm amazed by the usefulness of the 2p10. I love it for it's quick hold but didn't think it was giving that kind of performance
as am I. it will be interesting to see how it performs in the long-term test.
Definitely interested in seeing how the construction adhesive performs for those of us without heated shops . It may be ugly and hard to clean up, but it will properly cure in the cold.
That will be very interesting to add to the test. I'm looking forward to those.
Well, you certainly worked your way out of that sticky mess. Your marathon skills show. The CA glue results are a surprise for long to long and gap filling, I imagine a bit pricey per square inch. On a “hold for buck” the tried and try PVAs did well except outside. Thanks so much for all your efforts.
thanks Richard. I am interested to try the CAs in the long-term test and also the shock test. we will see.
This is some significant stuff here. I would love to see someone repeat this experiment.
Dfenently. I would love some peer review. I would also like to do a lot more testing personaly.
Epic video. Sounds like TB3 is just a work horse for the shop. A solid PVA glue that can gap fill if needed. Meanwhile epoxy for outdoor use and super glue for fixing mistakes
That sounds about right for me. I think the only big benefit over Titebond II is that you can get tight bond to in gallons
You can find Titebond III in gallon size on Amazon and Home Depot websites. TB3 is significantly more expensive than the $23 gallon of TB2 I bought off Amazon though.
Lowes also sells TB3 in gallons around here, but it's about 1.5x the price. The only reason I've bought it for interior projects was that it claims to have a longer open time than TB2 (10 minutes vs 5 for TB2/1). But I think after this I'll be switching to TB2 for most interior projects! Thanks for the great test!
Thanks James! I now have scientific data to justify my next epoxy purchase to the Mrs. "Well dear, you don't want our farmhouse table falling apart in a year because I saved money and bought a less performing glue, now would you?"
I am here to help. Make sure you buy it in the large quantity. That's a big table you know
"...and you know how upset you were the last time I boiled one of the horses."
One thing is that you test only pure shear resistance. CA glues perform well there but are very brittle and won't handle well alternating load or shocks. From my experience they are especially bad at vibrations even in a full tenon-mortise joint. Similarly contact glues which did so badly here handle flexion in laminated surfaces extremely well (hide glues too, and they are better in every other way so perhaps not a redeeming value) . This a a very interesting test you did, and a useful one but it is only a partial view of the strengths and weakness of glues.
very true. I am planning on doing shock stets in the future, but it is only wise to test one parameter at a time. I have a whole long list that will eb coming out in the next year or two looking at all kinds of other rankings including a long-term 20+ year study.
Yep. CA is phenomenal for the right application and its shear strength is super. But it just shatters with shock.
A trick I use when I need a shatter resistant gluing with CA is to leave in the joint a gap big enough to fill it with nitrile dust (elastomer) and then use the finest CA to glue by capillarity. it won't flex but will handle some level of shocks. Very useful when gluing dissimilar materials in flexion.
That's a great tip! Thx!
Definitely rethinking some things now. Heck of a test James!
thanks man. I love what data can do for people.
It's quite the sticky situation Robin.
Great info James, thanks for all your work!
Thanks man! I love the old Batman show. so many good dad jokes!
Awesome .... that is by far the most comprehensive glue test I've seen done ..... great work!
Thanks man. I am looking forward to expanding it and making it bigger.
As a lifelong model airplane builder (control line and radio control) and a sailor for most of my life, your results don't surprise me much. The 3M 5200 is a very impressive adhesive for its intended purposes but I have not heard of it being recommended for wood to wood gluing. It excels for bonding fiberglass to metals and fiberglass to teak. CA glues tend to be very strong in a linear pull but empirical experience has demonstrated in the RC community that it is very brittle and the accelerator makes it even more brittle. Shock loads like a hard landing tend to break the CA. Of course, that is a very different application than yours. Many model airplane builders prefer Titebond because it does have some flexibility and works extremely well for bonding balsa to balsa, aircraft birch ply, basswood and spruce. Again, empirical results demonstrate that Titebond does not tend to break like CA. Lots of other modelers use CA because they don't have the patience of a woodworker and expect instant gratification from everything including adhesives. One of my airplanes was built in 1981 with Titebond and some epoxy when necessary and it's still in flying condition.
Boat builders have learned that epoxy has to be protected from sunlight. Sunlight will pipe into an epoxy seam and deteriorate the glue over time. There seem to be lots of woodworkers that like 5 minute epoxies but in mu experience it is a poor performer over the long term. It tends to discolor to an orange hue and when that happens it has almost always weakened or failed. I've been able to peel old 5 minute form the insides of models even where sunlight would not have been a factor. Little or no wood grain comes with the old glue.
One final thought. A garage door installer told me to install a header to get the opening ready for him. I screwed and glued a piece of yellow pine in as directed using Titebond, only to find out later that he told me the wrong size. The Titebond proved to be far stronger than the yellow pine which was split and destroyed when I attempted to remove it. A chisel was required to pare the wood off of the adjoining piece.
Wow James this was some test and the results were quite surprising. Thanks for taking the time and giving us some hard stats.
Thanks man. I'm looking forward to doing more tests in the future
Outstanding test James. Thanks for sharing. What's interesting is that the PVA glue was invented about 100 years ago by some German dudes and the formula has been virtually unchanged since then.
thanks. I know I was actually impressed by the cheap Elmer's kids glue. that stuff is seriously good.
Exactly. I tested it unscientifically some years ago with a shear test and was surprised. I thought it would snap but the wood sheared instead. Your Cheap Super Glue test surprised me as well. Who knew? Lol! You may have initiated a run on that stuff by woodworkers at the Dollar Store all by yourself. :)
James i have to thank you , my patience was no where near yours to do this test lolll . Now i no witch gloo to take for my projects in the future . The fake one have bean pointed out thanks to your devotion 😉👍🏼🇨🇦
Thanks my pleasure.
Thanks for all the testing. A lot of work must have gone in to this.
I was surprised a bit at the TiteBond III performance outside. Maybe it would be better under finish, but this is a good word of caution there. Really appreciate your thoroughness. Stick with the great work. I just had to say that.
you and me both, made me look back at a few past projects.
From my view I have a degree in chemistry and physics, and you have done an outstanding job. Well done! You've probably already thought of it, but I could recommend writing this up and submitting it to some of the wood working magazines. This is great information that would get a whole lot of badly needed extra exposure. There are so many adhesives on the market that the average user really has little clue as to how well any of these works. Thanks James. I'm a great fan of yours.
Thanks Dan. I'll be doing a blog post for pop would but I might submit it to one of the magazines. We will see
There is a lot of real world hide glue long term testing. There are thousand of antiques that were put together with hide glue over 100 years ago and these pieces still hold together and can be repaired. That fact says a lot. I think all furniture of value should only use hide glue because of repair-ability. Also, I have built many wooden boat using epoxy below the waterline and Titebond III above the water line. Some of these boats are over 20 years old and not one joint ever failed.
Wow. You did a great job. Putting together a DOE and executing like this is not easy. Thank you for doing it! Now I am going to check out the updated video with more glues added!
Thank you James very much for sharing this incredible project with us! Many blessings to you and I will be waiting for more results!
Thanks Tracy! You and me both.
Some interesting results. Particularly with the CA glue. I have used it for cracks by squeezing a bit in while sanding. Also have used it to raise the string action on guitar nuts by using it and baking soda to fill the slots and then re filing.
thanks Jim. I am interested to see how it does on the long-term test.
I was really looking forward to this video series and you didn't disappoint. I was not surprised with the homemade glue or CA glue. I was surprised with the Titebond though. I have been woodworking for forty years and have great faith in PVA glue or what many across the pond call school glue or white glue and rarely find the need for Yellow glue plus the staining is such a bugger. I don't know, maybe it's as you said in a previous issue is that it really comes down to the quality of the join/joint of which, not all of mine are perfect. PU glue will work, but not as a gap filler. More wood around the joint is best for that LOL. Thanks, James for a great and informative experiment.
thanks Gary. it is always interesting when you get data to compare experience to.
Soooo the answer is... GLUE HOLDS? Seriously though this was a great test and the results surprised me. Thanks for doing such a good job. Unless I need something to hold my JD 1025R in the air, I think most of the tried and true glues will do the job, even hide. I view glue like clamp pressure. 99.635% of the time it just needs to do its job, not mush the crap out of something. Long term and weather test long term is the key, and I think you covered or are covering that. As said, 30+ years of PVA is out there.
I really liked this test as now I can show the younger ones, yea I'm older, "see the glue I've been telling you to use works". You can't counter real data.
Glue, between two guys at the Guild is like guns, religion, cars, tractors and screw heads, rarely is there consensus.
Great Job!
LOL so true. good data speeks!
This is some valuable information! I'm glad you had the patience and tenacity to see the meticulous tests through because I certainly would have cracked under the pressure 😂
LOL thanks man. I am stubborn if I am nothing else!
I would have never thought super glue gel would be a great wood glue. One suggestion test the top glues with a shock load, that would probably separate the glues further. In my experience super glues don’t fare well with shock loads.
thanks. That test is actually on the list for the future. we will see. I am more interested in long-term aging of the glue. I am about to set up a test for the next 20 years to test that too.
@@WoodByWright I am seeing a Ph.D. in glue science in your future.
I only use cyanoacrylate glues when nothing else will stick. They have been handy, and the bonds they make tend to be very strong, but based on my experience, for general use I have found them to be overly brittle. I can see how for certain types of joint they, or at least some of them, might be really good for tight, stiff bonds, but wood glues (PVA, et al.) are less expensive, make just about as strong a bond (the wood should break first), and are much nicer to deal with (more time to work with, easy to clean, won't instantly bond to your skin, etc.). Yes, it would be interesting to see how "super glues" and wood hold up to shock loads, because they've always seemed quite brittle and not as strong (as in tough or durable) overall (the glues themselves) as many others.
I was kinda waiting for a glue test but I see that is in another video. Will check it out.
here is the updated test with 32 more glues added to the list. th-cam.com/video/JFEPTPTtFsw/w-d-xo.html
That's some awesome effort!
Strength aside, I'm a committed proponent of hide glue as it is right in there with the "right to repair" movement. Thanks to hide glue, I can still repair any antique furniture including (if I ever need to) the furniture made by my great grandfather and there's no other glue that can beat that test!
very true. It is amazing for that and being able to extend the life or the work!
One of the issues I can see with cheap super glue is the consistency from tube to tube or batch to batch. It's such a small amount that any variation in the way it's made or packaged could make a big difference in end result.
that is true. I do not intend to use it but rather use 2P10 I trust their manufacturing more. but I am interested to see what the outcome is on the long-term test.
Wonderful information. Super job!!
I am pursuing a traditional viking shield build. Typically they would use hide glue or casein glue. They would make it themselves, so it probably would match your homemade hide glue. But these tests are solely testing pure sheer strength, not impacts, vibrations, staying glued after being attacked with an axe or sword or arrow, or other factors for a shield. Shields need flexibility, sheer strength, impact strength, and resistance to water and cold. And damage resistance to stay glued despite damage. Vikings would stand on their shields and they would hold the weight, so I guess the tests show that. What do you think would make a good shield glue now that we have modern glues alongside older natural glues? Viking shields need to be flexible, impact resistance, have a lot of traditional sheer strength, and they need to be cold and water resistant. But of course they don’t have to be submerged or left in the rain for more than an hour or two in a battle or during a hike, because you would keep it in your tent. I suppose that they do need to be cold proof, and rain is unavoidable on a longship. I am going off of ASFOLK’s work, ThegnThrand, and Roland Warwecha, all three worked together to ressurect a traditionally made shield. Traditional shields were very thin, tapered, and were made from planks that were edge joined then covered with rawhide then given fittings and finish such as handle which provided some extra structure and strength as well.
nice. I do want to do further tests on shock and other types of strain. but for the most part in that condition my go to would be EcoPoxy. it is an extreamly flexible epoxy and is water poof and will have a stronger bond the most all woods. but it is not very traditional. hide glue is actually extreamly resilient and flexible, but much of any time in the rain would weekend it considerably. that is one of the reasons some cultures would wrap things made for the outside in leather to protect the glue.
It’s strange I have been using super glue for ages now and always loved it for my woodwork especially on small fiddly bits but I’ve used it in bigger pieces as well, fantastic test James and your commitment is astonishing!!
Thanks man. I have used it from time to time but always felt bad useing it. Now I can feel a lot better.
Very nicely done James! Now that's what I call "sticking" to an experiment & coming up with some "binding" conclusions...... :)
Lol nice. Thanks man.
Very “punny” 😉
Well done. I appreciate all the effort you put in to this test.
thanks Nate. it was a fun chunk of Data
Great tests, James!
Thanks man.
Thank you for the big spending that this video required! I thoroughly enjoyed this!
Thanks. I am working on the next one now.
I would love to see the top glue picks tested on a more porous wood, such as oak. Great video, thanks!
yup. that test is coming up. in this test, I just wanted to isolate the glue and try not to get wood breakage but further tests are coming.
Weld bond & Titebonds “multi surface” glue! I just picked up titebonds multisurface thick/quick glue. That stuff rocks! I was gluing up some outside miters for baseboard/recessed paneling 1x and decided 2 corners in let me grab my Collins miter clamps, quick clamps and try out this “clear drying” multi-surface titebond. First off it sets in minutes vs titebond 2 which is about 10 min let’s say. So you don’t have much time to play with it. I glued, miter clamped, brad nailed, then quick clamped to get the miter extra tight. I gave them an hour before I took them to the wall bc I had plenty more to cut/cope. When it came time to glue/nail them to the wall dayyyyyymn! The miters were super solid! Not one opened back up, & I was able to bend the pine & partially the poplar to get them squared & leveled to the rest of the panaling/wall (wavy ass framing!?) I was very glad with the results. I went back around and used the multi-surface to fill in any miters/butts that I didn’t clamp off wall earlier bc it’s so thick. We will see down the road when the house finishes settling/acclimating & then again in a year or so. It’s my friends house so I’ll be able to check my work 😆 another carpenter/woodworker I follow on YT says he has been using Weldbond for many applications & is very impressed! I have to pick a bottle up to check it out & also grab some more fancy CA glues to play with. Dope vid btw! I am one for statistics so this was right on par with how I would of went about the comparison!
Thanks man those are both on my list for the next series which I should be starting here soon.
There's a lot of good thought in the comments. One thing I wondered, seeing some of the longevity discussion (I won't be here in 50 years to see your final longevity results...) was the performance of some of the more modern glues in Luthier applications. Even more, I'd like to see a test of the effects of various glues on musical tone transmission. Some videos discussing glues out there are clearly put on by the companies making the glue, and that gets a little sticky.
that would be an interesting idea. might have to play with that. thanks!
Oddly, the ad that played leading into the video is for Akfix adhesive...Great test James, thanks for doing it.
LOL nice! maybe I should add it to the next test, but it seems to be a thick CA with activator.
Thanks for this amazing contribution to the woodworking communitie! Loved your vid! Greetings from Brazil!
thanks Pedro. that means a lot.
This explains why so many people on TH-cam use Titebond 2, CA glue, and West Systems epoxy
Yup. it is good stuff!
I've actually no one seeing cyanoacrylate for wood working 😐
This video is just what I was looking for. Love a bit of data rather than just opinion
Thanks. I am about to start the next step.
Another feature related to gap filling is that you can make a matching 'putty' by filling a gap with titebond III and sanding it while it's still wet. The dust from sanding mixes with the glue and matches well with the rest of the wood. And TB III dries pretty quickly so it's not like you have to stand there sanding it for forever. All you have to do is go over it again with a fresh piece of sandpaper after it's dry.
yup. a lot of people like to fix gaps that way.
Thank you for taking the time to do this. I am sure it got tedious half way through.
thanks. actually if got more and more exciting for me as I got closer to the data. I am looking forward to the next test!
Fantastic video. Thank you for putting so much time and energy in to this one. The results for Titebond 3 outdoors were surprising and I would've never guessed. Cheers!
Thanks. I am looking forward to the next round.
Phenomenal work. Thanks
Wow, this is so comprehensive! Thank you for taking the time to do this!
Thanks. I'm actually about to start the next series of glues. I want to compare them to some of the lesser used glues as well as glues from overseas.
Great information. I've been using Bob Smith slow cure epoxy and so far I really like it. I was scared of the low price ($14 for 9ozs on ebay) but a lot of good reviews and it hasn't done any different than any other epoxy I have used.
I might have to put it in the next test.
Excellent work; lots of surprises and interesting data points. This will certainly affect how I use glues in the future. These tests are a great service to woodworkers everywhere, and I hope they get you a ton of new subscribers.
I think it would be neat if in your live feed or some other video you showed footage of some of the actual tests being done. It wouldn't provide any new information that isn't in your raw data, but I think people would enjoy watching the procedure.
thanks Karl. I actually did a live feed of me doing the test earlier this week. but not everyone gets those notifications.
I took a glimpse at the data and did not notice anything about temperature or humidity. Did you keep everything at a constant temp and humidity? I wonder if high/low temp and humidity could effect the results. Great work, keep it up.
yes. I mentioned that in the video where I covered the prosses. I kept the humidity at 40% and the temp at 70F for all tests except the exterior as they were tested wet raising the room humidity. testing the changes is a test I want to do in the future.
Pre soak your joint with warm low viscosity epoxy or you joint will dry out leave it 15 minutes, do it again, now mix fumed silica with your epoxy untill peanut butter consistency, add to your joint, you could also add a little glass, don't clamp tight just snug now test your gap fill and strength, the only draw back is heat 160 degrees it will start to sag,
Let me start by saying I loved this study on glue. I'm a researcher by training and a woodworker by self education. This study smashed both of my passions into one thing.
I'm glad the cheap super did well. I made some dice towers for some board gamer friends a while back and the wood was thin and the only way I could hold them in place was cheap super glue I had (clamps cause too much bending).
One issue I had was any stray super glue showed when I added oil to the wood. So be careful. NO SQUEEZE OUT!
thanks. I am the other way around woodworker by trade and researcher by hobby. although most of the studies I have done delt with destructive testing. so that is always fun!
Who knew, CA glue for the win! I'm gonna look through this data and maybe make some charts for myself haha. Awesome work James
Sweet Ben. I thought a few people would appreciate access tot he raw data.
Wood By Wright yea I will definitely be taking a look! I am surprised by the titebond II outside... I carve foam duck decoys and you paint it with titebond II and cover in sawdust to make a hard and strong shell that can sit in the water... maybe I'll have to reconsider my glue! Also, looking for the best glue to laminate the limbs for longbows, hmmmmm
Holy hide glue bald man. Did not expect those results. Thank you
I know right. data can be fun!
Wow! Great test! Thanks for doing this and for publishing your data! I just built two patio tables and used Titebond III for the glue up. If I had seen your video before that, I would have used something else. Live and learn!
thanks. Same here. I had two furniture builds fail in the past. I chalked them up to bad construction as they were some of my first. now I may replace the blame.
good info james thanks for doing the tests
Thnaks Gene. it was my pleasure. this was a fun one!
Thanks heaps for your video. I found this absolutely invaluable as I was asked to repair a long grain to long grain crack in a mahogany dining table and wanted to know the strength test on the different glues. Amazing keep up the good work!
Thanks. I am working on the next set of tests now. Should be out soon!
shear strength, end-to-end pull etc etc all influence adhesive strength characteristics. But...I do appreciate your run-down - thanks
Correct. But to get solid evidence you need to eliminate variable and so in this case I eliminated the other connection capabilities to get a solid base mark..
This data is going straight into Minitab as soon as I can. I’d really like to run stats on it.
The superglue surprised me. I’ve seen test results from reliable sources that always had Type III pva’s on top. Type I close behind. Epoxy came in third. I trust your results though, you showed us everything but the assembly. I also like the amount of data that you ran.
I’m expert in gelatin manufacturing (hide glue). It has surprising properties. It’s a lot tougher than anyone gives it credit for. Hot water is its enemy though
Keep up the good work and the great content.
Thanks Joe. I am interested to see how the super glue does on the long-term test. I will be starting that one here soon.
Fantastic
Thanks
Well done James. Like you, I think I will stay with PVA for my day to day glue ups. and use CA for quick jobs. It's also economics . If the PVA gives you the strength you need then the cliché fit for purpose. Thanks for the time and trouble.
So true. I'm looking forward to seeing some of the data from future test it will be interesting
According to a book I have by Robert Lento (Woodworking: Tools, Fabrication, Design and Manufacture) he claims that thicker glues work better on woods with less pores, like the maple you used or oily hardwoods, while more open woods take thinner glues better. His statement is that the more open and dry the wood, the more it sucks away the moisture from the thinner glues which thickens them into a stronger, closer joint in that situation.
Also I think you may need another rig to do a "pull" test... and maybe see if you can borrow AvE's torquestruct-o-matic for another "twist" on the test.
PS: I think it's kind of funny that he did a lot of testing on what frees stuck nuts and bolts recently, now we have your test... WD-40 and Superglue remain as the kings of "always have it in your toolbox" haha
I am going to be testing other woods soon that will be interesting to see. as to tencel strength, there is not much use for it in woodworking most all joints stress the joint in shear. also, it is almost impossible to separate just the glue as a variable that way. but who knows I may come up with a rig for that someday.
Really useful info. Thanks for your efforts!
My pleasure. I'm looking forward to doing future test
So...that is where Arthur gets his love of numbers! 😁
LOL who do you think I had crunch all the numbers for the test!
Great stuff here. Thanks for your time and effort and dollars for our benefit. Were the PVA glues given adequate time to cure prior to outside testing? These are emulsion products and if insufficiently dry they remain soft, which is a problem inside the joint where air exposure and moisture loss can be quite slow. They may have been sticky because they were never fully dry. Any kind of exposure to an alkaline substance may have also affected these glues even when fully cured, with a similar gummy result, so results could be situation-dependent depending on environmental exposures. Also, please consider adding a waterless UF glue to your test group. Powdered UF glues are mixed with water that can cause swelling and grain raising issues that can apply pressures on the joints well beyond those in your test. Like other viewers, would be curious to hear about clamping pressure & glue line thickness as well.
Thanks. I will have two UF glues in the series I am working on right now. yes, all the glues had more than their required cure time before going outside. all of them were applied for at least a week before going to the elements. as to clamping pressure I used the manufacturers suggested pressure with the use of adjustable spring clamps. if the manufacturer did not suggest a pressure I chose 180PSI as that was close to the middle of most glues when using hardwood.
Thanks for all your hard work James. That was eye opening!
thanks John. that means a lot.
Valuable data! Thank you!
I wonder if the super glue would differ in bond strength on kiln-dry vs greener wood?
In particular, the poor PVA performance is a shocker to me, but I have been using epoxy more often lately.
People are also using super glue online with talcum powder and other fillers to make super hard fill putty. Super stuff!
Again, thanks for your hard work. This is a gift!
Right on. I want to do more tests like that. I have an updated test with 32 more glues.
Excellent project James, thankyou for sharing.
thanks. my pleasure
Interested to see a response from any of the manufacturers, particularly 3m about why their outdoor glue performed so badly. They may file it under bad batch, or bad storage, or bad application, or hopefully suggest a different procedure.
Lol we will see. I had two companies contact me wanting to sponsor the test. But I chose not to.
WELL DONE! 2P10 suddenly is becoming my choice for things I've had difficulty and huge disappointments over based on your tests. The glue manufacturers need your input to take away some of their haughtiness and reduce prices to Dollar General levels now. I was dumbfounded to see the numbers on that expensive epoxy and its lack of performance.
I know. there were a lot of surprises. I will soon be setting up a long-term test to see how a few key glues react to 20+ years. but it will take a long time to collect that data. LOL
Probably 20 years. Sorry for being a smart ass.
I really appreciate the effort you made in your tests. I would like to hear your thoughts about the ease of use, clean up, and waste factors that would help decide an over all best in class. Id like to hear a discussion about having to use activators and do they affect the wood color, how much gets wasted due to clogging in the applicator i.e. CA glue, or hardening in the container. I personally have never used an entire container of CA glues or Hide glues because off premature hardening or shelf life Issues. Thanks, Alan
ya there are a lot of other parameters I would like to test in the future. this test was just focusing on strength, but there will be other tests in the future.
thank you . i was shocked on the tight bond 3
I know that was really interesting to me
If you do this again, additional data to consider collecting might be room temperature, room humidity, wood type, clamping force, ect.. Obviously this would be an insane amoutn of work unless you automated some of the process. Using a machine learning algo might be a good way to analyze the data, and show weirdness, if you end up with more variables.
Also a stress test might be interesting. Apply a lower than "expected" breaking force several time repeatedly up to 10 times. Maybe 3/4 of expected breaking force.
Also you might even intentionally vary the clamping force as you go (if you end up doing a lot of examples). Using regression you can tease out the relationship between the clamping force, the force to break, the glue, and all the other variables.
Thnaks man! All of those variables were recorded. all clamping was done to the pressure specified by the Manufacturer. If no specification they were clamped at 10PSI Room humidity was at 40% (+/-5%) and the room was at 70 degrees F (+/-1) I will be doing future tests with different woods to see how grain structure affects it. A stress test and a shock test are both on the list as well Long-term study transparency wood sizing, reversibility, open time, and clamping force. It will take years to get through it all but I love good data. maybe one of these days I will get an assistant just for this. LOL we will see.
Wood By Wright your a mad man.
Thanks so much for this! The entire process has been fun to watch!
thanks Clint. this has been a lot of fun to put together.
Apparently rabbit-skin glue is up to 4 times tougher than bone/hide glue, that would make it a contestant closer to the top ranks. Also adding alum to hide/skin/bone glues should make it water resistant once cured. Might be a good, natural alternative to epoxy for outside use.
I haven't tried rabbit hide glue. But I might have to. The ones I had were deer and cow. I have another test where I tested alum and it did not benefit the exterior used much at all. Slightly better but not by much.
@@WoodByWright You can find the rabbit stuff on German ebay under the term "Hasenleim". Not sure if they send to the US though.
Oh and I've watched a couple of videos from a German guy who does restaurations on old furniture and he said how you treat the hide/bone/fish glue changes how effective it glues dramatically.
He uses watered down bone glue on both sides of the surfaces, then has a less viscous one with less water to actually glue the pieces together. He activates the already settled, thinned glue on the surfaces with a heat gun.
Not sure if that complex approach really helps much, but he seems to be the most experienced person I could find on the internet when it comes to hide/bone/skin glue, using it for approx. 30+ years for his professional work.
Thank you very much on your research the types of glue.
Thanks. I am about to start the next series.
This is an incredible amount of work! Thank you James. If you do anything in the future I'd be curious about how something like Liquid Nails would perform. Also, what was the consistency of the cheap superglue? Since it did well, I assume it was not very thin?
Thanks. Yup the next set will have several construction glues. It was a thick super glue
Thank you bro! Great tests.
my pleasure!
The titebond 3 results outside really surprised me. Maybe it's waterproof but not freeze proof? Be interesting to see how it performs after a bout of spring/rainy season weather.
ya that one really caught me off guard too!
man oh man, I thought titebond III was the gospel for outdoor use. mind blasted.
you and me both. I have had a few outdoor failures in the past and I thought it was my joinery, but maybe not.