Remco evenepoel, generational talent in classics, time trialling and climbing, with the bad luck of living at the same time as Jonas vinegaard and tadej pogacar.
@@BT.jpeg_ Pogi came in with 3 weeks of training lol, and due to a lac of base conditioning he cracked. No way jonas can beat a fully prepared pog if he doesn't make mistakes.
@@koenverhelst5165 Pogi's injuries last year were nothing compared to Vingegaard's this year. In general, the two are on a very similar level when it comes to GTs
Pog is just different. He can go toe to toe with Wout and MVDP in their terrain. And also absolutely smack Jonas(ye not the hest lead up to it for him and his team) in his terrain. And be almost level with Remco in a TT. Just wild man.
My take after 2 weeks: 1) Pog is winning because he is the strongest, period. 2) the team around Pog is doing the job that they need to do, however, they are not overwhelming, 3) Jonas is doing the best he can given the injuries he had and the timing of those injuries, better than I anticipated, 4) Visma is absolutely missing Kuss, without Kuss with Jonas in his current condition, Jonas just can't pull it off, 5) Remco is establishing himself as a legitimate top-tier GC rider for the future if his performance continues through week 3 the way it has been going. Like Benji, I was hoping for the Pog vs. Jonas battle to the very end, however, Pog is just too strong. My newest wish, Pog, if you win the TdF, please, please, please ride the Vuelta and go for the triple!!
chapeau to jonas first time ive seen him risk losing to win and on his own hes a game opponent best riavlry ivesen in 35 years of cycling and nothing is close. 2012 vuelta was iconic with valverde, purito, contador but levels are different galaxies. The tempo these guys ge led out at and only lift pace is evolution of sport.. Were his gradients but he usually accelerates from teammates wheel kuss was so needed not fair to have yates and jonas to not have kuss. Really happy for remco he will win a tour and hes enjoying himself genuinely which might be my age but im so happy to see it. Has a lot of bravado but its not necessary at this level he doesnt need that anymore hes shown himself. Tadej is special man told you since vuelta,amgen, olymics his class is unparalleled. Remco reminds me of hinalut who I didnt see liek I did fignon. Tadej is the cannibal eats everything on plate. Team ahs more cohesive without ayuso being a diva if they had brought mcnulty this could get ugly, Mcnulty taking over after wellens and politt is just a bullet train and allows sivakov anf soler valleys in between mountains and almeida is enigma but he will have a good day. He will win voeulta yearhe challenges roubaix I bet so he has time to lose weight. He rides on spirit and instinct like merckx, pantani, coppi, ocana, he will win all 3 grand tours and all five monuments. I tihk ih wins a sprint of champs lysess in yellow i think its a goal. Bini is and uphiil or false flat sprint juts is on razor form with brute strength Enjoy the rest could be watching history besdies ca.v
Contador v purito was legendary and that was more epic. But yes this battle is in its 5th YEAR ... PLUS it's the tdf and not the Vuelta. So it's more like the great rivalries in tennis imo. And this is fabulous
Nah, greatest of all time. Pogi and Jonas have had spectacular battles in the tour for years. Lemond and Fignon had 1 spectacular time trial that determined a tour but nothing else exciting.
@@ggusta1 fuente de raid by contador and pulling it off brcause he gifted tiralongo a giro stage in2011 so despite being ijn astana he emptied humself thats the nuance that makes cycling magic. Trust me I used 2012 as benchmark for reason : ) liike you said it was amazing!!! The factthat these guys are matching and turning tideson each other for so many years in a ro as you said its a first. Sharing same ideas lol
Joao Almeida last climb was amazing. I agree with Benji, a special camera for Almeida dropping everyone would be good for us watch. Maybe good idea for Netflix but i doubt they had it
Pogacar switched to riding defensively and only attacking when the doors are really open (rather than kicking them down) since he lost the sprint against Jonas. How much do you think that is benefiting him? Feels like a good strategy to not lose from this place at least.
I still think Tadej realized on the stage where he lost to Jonas that if he only attacked Jonas on the last climb, he would have won. I still think Jonas is better at longer steeper climbs but if he does not attack earlier, Tadej would just stick to his wheel and drop him on the last 3 to 4km before Jonas finds his pace or Tadej bonks.
In my opinion, all Tadej needs to do is to remain defensive given his three-minute gap to Jonas. Stay with him and rely on sprint finish and do not attack unless Jonas attacks. In this way, he won't have to risk losing a lot of time on any "off" day and can potentially still gain because it is Jonas who has to attack now if he wants to win.
The fact that visma, with their team, were able to drop almost every UAE rider today except yates and poggy is incredible. Jorgensen is good, but he shouldn't be putting the hurt on almeida, if UAE is supposed to be as good as they are. I think the difference between UAE and Visma LAB is how deep Jorgensen went for Jonas - nobody's doing that for tadej. Ultimately, didn't make the difference, but the way that visma rose to the challenge today was amazing
In fairness Almeida ended up performing well on the stage, just rides his own pace. But yeah Matteo has been an absolute hero for visma this year, he did amazing today.
48:14 Genuinely confused by the Remco discussion. He won the Vuelta in 2022 so this isn't his first grand tour. I agree this is the most consistent he's ever been, but he's super talented. I'm not that surprised by how well he's doing.
Their opinion and many others are pretty dismissive about his Vuelta because pogi and jonas weren’t there and Roglic crashed out and keep referencing to his crisis in the Vuelta last year.
@@FedericoG-p3w he's also according to 'conventional wisdom ' not supposed to perform well at high elevation and Jonas would get him in the Alps. Last 3 stages Gained 1:30 on stage 19 7 seconds on 20 and capped off with 1 minute plus with nothing to gain but another stage. Let's take stage 21 out because it's usually a sprinter stage. When's the last time the maillot jaune won 3 of the last 4 stages? Point being he's putting together a season unlike anything in 50 years and maybe ever. And now he might go to the Vuelta for another never been done achievement.
just to note. People are talking about last year Pogi losing 2’ on ITT. But they are forgetting that it is his home stage. He knows that stage in and out
I thought JV has better 20+ min power, but I guess not anymore. Pogacar does crazy watts, and I'm afraid that JV can't get to that level. Maybe remco can still improve
I think its clear that kuss is missing. If he is there in normal shape he would pull at least for 2 more km after jorgensen has finished. Further more van aert not in the Mountain shape of the Last years. If we remember how they gapped pogacar in the past, it was not so much that jonas has dropped him after Pacing 2 or 3km by himself but rather an extreme Hard leadout and then the final attack by jonas.
@@Zawisza499 totally agreeing wirh you, when you saw vingegard Pacing out of the saddle for like a Minute and pogi just sitting calm on his wheel i was like this stage is over
@@janwantula1773agreed… for a moment it kind of looked like Pog was pedaling a little laboriously, but then Jonas clearly looked more disheveled a minute or two later
I feel like above 8-9% he was not able to go faster than Jonas. Yesterday and today. Or at least he didn't. But everything below he just rides away. These flattening finishes really suit his capabilities this year
That’s Pogis improvement compared to other years, Jonas is not able to drop him anymore on steep slopes. Now it’s on Jonas to improve on the shallower slopes, so he does not lose time there!
pogacar is the best rider of all time anyone saying anything else are lieing to themself. He is now the best climbing performance in historty and he beats one of the best flandern riders of all time in mvdp there too like noone else would be close. He is by far the best rider of all time!
@@charlierennie9192 your just stupid then thats not my problem. If you think merckx would crush jonas uphill and mvdp in flandern ur stupid. Besides Pog already the best clmibing performance of all time now, merckx wouldnt even beat landa stop fooling yourself jesus🤣
@@spacexander4239yes sure. And I mean last year Jonas was able to get minutes out of pogacar. But for the mental of visma and Jonas and the excitement of the tour it would have been great to see them crack pogacar
@@spacexander4239 he has never successfully distanced pogi watch the race using your eyes next time. there is a difference between reeling in a gap and making a gap.
Will Visma accept this now or will they just go crazy in the last week and try to crack Pogacar? Yeah, I know it's highly unlikely for this to happen, but it's either that or they give up at all. I would love to at least see a fight until stage 20
As you said, when Pogacar is just better, what can you do on a hard stage like this. I really loved Griescha's radio message from the car when Jonas crossed the line, basically saying "You did what you could today, don't beat yourself up. If Tadej is just that good, what more can you do?"
The year-on-year improvement by everyone (but mostly UAE and pogi) just has to be discussed. How has pogi improved that much compared to the rest of his career? How his vingo at his all-time best despite the injuries?? How is remco in the top 40 all-time and buitrago superior to peak Froome??? Either the w/kg estimate model is wrong or something crazy is going on in the peloton
I've been wondering if the the w/kg-e model might be 10-40 watts off due to innovations in bike tech, especially rolling resistance, as teams have moved to wider tires and wide-profile aero tubeless wheelsets. Then there's helmets, socks, skinsuits, radio placement, etc. In the Watts per Kilogram Explained article on the LR mainpage, they estimate bike weight and rider drag and make the claim that climbs over 4% gradient represent a parcour on which aero is less important. That's false, now. Aero depends on speed, not gradient, and they're riding at higher speed. There's also 10-50 watts to be gained from consistent altitude training. If you've won the genetic lottery and respond to that with respiratory adaptations, you can become a watt-monster.
@@alexanderpolta but again how would all that have changed so dramatically in 1 year? they did the altitude camps last year too. they probably had similar bikes. and yet they are blowing the 2023 version of themselves out of the water
@@MartinRamette in two years, wheels and tires have expanded 4-6mm. everyone is on new integrated cockpits and wearing new skinsuits. descent speeds have ticked up significantly, just as you'd expect from riders going uphill faster, too.
No chance. He's in his peak form right now there's no way he falls off towards cracking on week 3. And don't forget, even then Jonas would have to find strength to put minutes into him, which is practicaly impossible.
If I could see the elbow flick then it's beyond obvious and tadej didn't wait for more invitations. 33:40 I'm baffled what Jonas was thinking or if it was just out of habit. But that was a really poor moment by JV . Flicking the yellow jersey... Yeah I'm done and I will be happy with 2d place.
And now the outcome has come out Pogacar has now beaten all climbing performances ever made by the greatest dopers. Bjarne Riis record on Heutacam on aprox 6,97 watts for 34 some minutes is now tadej pogacar. 6,98 for 38 minutes. He would beat any doper including pantani riis, amrstrong, ulrich today. More watts and for 4 minutes longer. Pogacar has improved his best ever climb by about 7-8%. Up to this year noone was close and pocagar was never the best climber doing the best numbers he was few % behind, even with vingegaard imrpoving this year he still smashes him. But also this comes after the day pogacar already did a top 3 climbing effort in history. I dont know what to say other than I dont believe in the UAE anymore all their riders have been improving with ridicoulus numbers compared to any of their former years. Yates in tour de suiss making a complete outlier performance that usually only vingegaard could do, I might not believe in a clean cycling sport anymore. This year is so much faster up the mountains than the former years its like Usuain bolt dropping a 9,0 second sprint mid career. That is how much pogi improved for this year and its after he did the giro, which should be a disadvantage. There has been talk about faster tdfs every year but it was not actually true, but this year pogi beats everything all old records when a year or 2 ago he couldnt even finish within 2 minutes of them.
Cool story. Tadej trained all winter on long duration efforts without explosiveness. Furthermore, he did altitude camp before the Tour. Normally he would just do Tour of Slovenia and chill at sea level.
@@MeesterJand he rode a Giro right before which, even if it was easy, is usually hard enough to have a hard time at the TDF, at least to win it. Who can believe this is normal? Anyway, keep in mind JV also broke records if I'm not wrong. Those guys are doped, like most of the peloton, for sure.
@@MeesterJ So you argue its a cool story that he just beat every single doped record in terms of climbing, albeit with Jonas pulling him the first 10 k. But thats just not really explainable for any training further 8% improvement when hes already the elite of the elite is just dumb in 1 year. Something has happened in cycling this year that is yet to be explained. All the speculation last year was not really justified, this year it is most definitely justified, they have never even been close to the records, we are talking improvements of more than 2 minutes on the big mountains. That pogi beats vingegaard is not the issue, the numbers are the issue they are better than the guys that had 55-60 hematocrit levels in the 90s. Riis, Pantani, Ulrich, Romminger. The top doped that had doped for 5-10 years. They had as light and even lighter bikes than today, just less aero but that means nothing on the mountains. I struggle to find any logical reason how pogacar should suddenly be 8% better than ever in 1 year. Jonas is also better than ever, but with a far smaller margin.
@@adshdhhhd7783 Yeah he beat records too I see now though not as much, and you would believe being 56 kg would at least get it to be more explainable. However something happened this year, that is beyond anything else.
The breaking of records and whatever isn't even the eyebrow raising thing. The thing to question is the ridiculous improvement he made relative to his past performances.
I agree with Sean Kelly regarding Visma's tactics today. Should've paced it so that Jonas could attack a bit later and not have to spend as much time in the wind by attacking from so far.
He had to try far out in order to gain serious time on Pogacar. There's a risk involved in that if Pogacar was able to stay in the wheel and save energy, which he obviously could without too much trouble, but a bold attempt by Jonas even though he failed. Yes, he could have minimized the time loss if the pace was slower and he didn't take the front himself, but that was not the goal today. As a very small bonus he took a lot of time on Remco.
He had to try he believed he was stronger on this sort of climb, if we had a roglic level guy to pull for a bit more maybe just maybe Jonas could have made it too hard for pogi to attack and a bit easier for Jonas, but pogi shows a form that noone has ever acheived the calculations of the stage is out he beat the dopers from the 90s on all measures.
@@clauso72 Hi, i do appreciate that he was gambling to try and gain serious time. However I still think (and thought at the time), why keep pushing, when you know you are on the edge and Pogi is holding your wheel easily. Remco is no threat to him, he has ridden away from him every time. So i think it made more sense to accept you are not going to make it stick today, sit up and try and minimise losses or agree to ride with Pogi. If you don't lose much time today you have a chance on another stage, maybe you need to do it on the Bonnette stage where you have the super high altitude and the intensity. Galibier had the altitude, today had the length, maybe altitude and intensity is what can get the job done. Today was basically a repeat of what happened on Cauteret - and it seemed inevitable Pogi would counter. This way Jonas has put himself in a situation where he has to make Pogi fully crack, but with a 3 minute lead, Pogi can now afford to let go of the wheel and minimise losses, which he might not do when the gap is 2 minutes, so makes it less likely to happen.
With THESE numbers that TP can now suddenly produce for 40-45 minutes, he'll win the next 7 TDF's pretty much effortless. Oh, the excitement of looking forward to that...
Man the drugs Pogi is on are just amazing. What ever he is on allows him to stay a the highest level throughout the entire season. Who needs to peak anymore. If you want a superhuman, watch a Mavel movie because in real life Pogi( in my opinion) is super doped. I would be fine if he was in this shape a few times a season, but not the whole season sorry no. I know he is not the only one, but he us really drawing attention to himself. Please dont say he nevwr tested positive because we all know how much weight that holds. Its hard to watch these guys smashed records( that were made by doped riders) and not even seem to be out of breath. Its just hard to watch.
If Jonas loose the TDF 2024 he did not loose it, because of Tadej (at least not right now), he would loose it because of Stage 4 in the BC. Normaly Jonas should not be even close to the Top 10.
Lanterne rouge is never going to day anything about doping but even Patrick and Benji both know deep down how fucking juiced the peleton is right now. Worst it will ever be. Last year you had wout dropping climbers on mountain stages… This year you have pogi dropping record wattages day after day dropping climbers 10kgs lighter than him. (Who are also doing record watts) Last year vingo was doing TT like gana . Crackdown is needed In the peleton or make it legal so everyone can fight it like men. 8:07
Exactly. I am not naive, I know this sport never has and probably will never be clean. My main issue is that 1/ it pretends to be 2/ doping is not egal between riders. I looked into the Armstrong days and this guy had access to the best stuff with great means in order to avoid being detected (including his cancer past), that was not the case of the rest of the peloton. That's mostly what made him so successful.
So what if Tadej is indeed equal to Jonas on long climbs, isn't that bad for the Tour in the future? Sorry but I don't want a guy that wins everything, that's also not good for cycling. Shouldn't we hope that Visma or another rider can at least get to the level of Tadej in the tour, sorry but else I'm not going to watch every stage anymore just like I did when Froome was dominating, I hated the Tour back than.
No? Because even if Pogi is dominating everywhere it's still so much fun because of the way he's racing. Excitement isn't about who wins it's about how it's raced. Pogi would attack again and again even if he had a 10 minute lead unlike Vingegaard or Froome. A Pogi-dominated Tour is much more fun than an equal one without him. I'm sick of this "it's boring" argument.
I think if vingegaard puts a whole season of training in with just the tour in mind and the Visma team is in top shape and there are no injuries what so ever he can still hurt pogacar big time but the parcours, the team and Jonas’s best shape have to be there for
Yep I had the same fear back in 2021 when he was so dominant and I got the same feeling again and I see nobody except Jonas to be in the range of 5 min in the next five years and especially with his team now…
@@dudewhereismyfitnesssorry, I don't believe the advancements in the sport can explain how the records from guys who were taking hardcore stuff can be smashed like this, especially from a guy who just rode the Giro. This is very naive unfortunately
@@adshdhhhd7783why don’t you believe this? Just because of your gut feeling or what? The whole peloton is faster than ever, they break records in every race, the classics and the mountain stages! This collective improvements just points to structural improvements in nutrition, training and technology mate, but keep ruining cycling for yourself..
@@ile1973no, because it doesn't make any sense. Especially on climbs like that. Armstrong's days were not 50 years ago, I started watching the TDF during that era. Yes, there have been great improvements, but it should maybe allow guys nowadays to match those old performances (maybe not even), not smash them like that. You have to understand that those performances are abnormal.
This is just ridiculous. You have to dare to talk about doping. This is not normal. Doing nearly 7 w/kg for 40 min? Get out of here, he beats the worst dopers in history. And you jokers are full of admiration: Pog best ever!!!
On witch stages did Remco realy showed some balls? Beside th eattack on the Grqavel Stage, were he then decided not to pull, only because another ride did not pull, he did nothing that needed balls. But its fine for me...but if a person calls out other persons, he should life up to his own statments. He is riding a very calculated tour so far...
@@dardo1201 Nope, he himself said, he was not pulling or try to pull, cause he thouhgt he was on the limit and if so, he would loose more time. He could had tryed but therefor you need "balls" :D. And also in another interview Remco stated that he do not wanted to get the gap times to the both guys in front...only to the guys behind him. For me ts plausable, that he rides this way...but its the save way. Or in Remco´s words...the no balls way :D.
@@dardo1201 You explaint nothing. And now you are bitching like a little girl. I even told you what Remco himself said and what everybody can also look up on TV. But hey...you explaint to me :D. What you did is smash some phrase into a comment and sell it as an fact. Oh Boy.....
Well, im done watching. Stupid and boring to watch any more, since its over. This is why the TDF struggles to gain fans. Once a big lead develops, its over. Bleh
I do not find watching record performance after record performance impressive or entertaining when I KNOW who will win every single time. Total waste of my time to even watch and pretend a different outcome is possible. La Vuelta cant come soon enough
It's glorious to watch. I cannot imagine not enjoying watch the best humans doing the things they are the best in the world at. It's as aesthetic as it gets. Plus, with Pogacar, you may know the final result...but unlike sky train you have NO idea how that result takes shape
Remco evenepoel, generational talent in classics, time trialling and climbing, with the bad luck of living at the same time as Jonas vinegaard and tadej pogacar.
But he has adapted to each challenge he's faced very successfully, and I think he's got it in him to go to the next level.
how is vingegaaed included in this - if pogi trained for the tour it would be 5-0 - jonas lucky to be mentioned in the same sentence as pogi
@@GnomeslikebananacakeCome on man, Jonas won the tour by 7 minutes last year he deserves respect. It’s him that has pushed Pogacar to a new level.
@@BT.jpeg_ Pogi came in with 3 weeks of training lol, and due to a lac of base conditioning he cracked. No way jonas can beat a fully prepared pog if he doesn't make mistakes.
@@koenverhelst5165
Pogi's injuries last year were nothing compared to Vingegaard's this year. In general, the two are on a very similar level when it comes to GTs
Well done to Patrick in being gracious in ‘defeat’ (as such) after Pogacars performance(s). Much appreciated.
Yup, respect
It’s wild watching Jonas do record watts and still finish second to Pogi. He is just on another level.
Can you not spoil it. Loser.
Yeah, unfortunate we don't have 100% Jonas this year. Now that would be a battle! 😮
@@systemicchaos3921 He did one of his best performances of all time (his words) and had a longer prep than pog last year, stop the excuses
@@koenverhelst5165 Plus, Tadej did the Giro and had covid.
@@koenverhelst5165As long as u didn’t make excuses for Pog last year..
Pog is just different. He can go toe to toe with Wout and MVDP in their terrain. And also absolutely smack Jonas(ye not the hest lead up to it for him and his team) in his terrain. And be almost level with Remco in a TT. Just wild man.
My take after 2 weeks: 1) Pog is winning because he is the strongest, period. 2) the team around Pog is doing the job that they need to do, however, they are not overwhelming, 3) Jonas is doing the best he can given the injuries he had and the timing of those injuries, better than I anticipated, 4) Visma is absolutely missing Kuss, without Kuss with Jonas in his current condition, Jonas just can't pull it off, 5) Remco is establishing himself as a legitimate top-tier GC rider for the future if his performance continues through week 3 the way it has been going.
Like Benji, I was hoping for the Pog vs. Jonas battle to the very end, however, Pog is just too strong.
My newest wish, Pog, if you win the TdF, please, please, please ride the Vuelta and go for the triple!!
I am w you on everything but the vuelta. take the Queen and go home.
All three grand tours definitely! Jonas gets time to recover and we get the healthy Jonas battle with Pog we wanted.
@@annm9589Why not, u boring sod? 😅
They are missing last year's Kuss. This year, Kuss seemed quite off.
@@dustind9242 Off what? His bike? 😂
Great idea for a new drinking game. Watch LRCP and drink every time Benji says “on paper” you have to drink.
Or "on one end" or "move the needle" 😉
Pog Tuah
😂😂😂😂😂💪🏻 legend
💀
Google automatically translates this to "Lucky Pog".
Visma team bus after stage 11: "let's hope this wasn't his off day already"
chapeau to jonas first time ive seen him risk losing to win and on his own hes a game opponent best riavlry ivesen in 35 years of cycling and nothing is close. 2012 vuelta was iconic with valverde, purito, contador but levels are different galaxies. The tempo these guys ge led out at and only lift pace is evolution of sport.. Were his gradients but he usually accelerates from teammates wheel kuss was so needed not fair to have yates and jonas to not have kuss. Really happy for remco he will win a tour and hes enjoying himself genuinely which might be my age but im so happy to see it. Has a lot of bravado but its not necessary at this level he doesnt need that anymore hes shown himself.
Tadej is special man told you since vuelta,amgen, olymics his class is unparalleled. Remco reminds me of hinalut who I didnt see liek I did fignon. Tadej is the cannibal eats everything on plate. Team ahs more cohesive without ayuso being a diva if they had brought mcnulty this could get ugly, Mcnulty taking over after wellens and politt is just a bullet train and allows sivakov anf soler valleys in between mountains and almeida is enigma but he will have a good day. He will win voeulta yearhe challenges roubaix I bet so he has time to lose weight. He rides on spirit and instinct like merckx, pantani, coppi, ocana, he will win all 3 grand tours and all five monuments. I tihk ih wins a sprint of champs lysess in yellow i think its a goal.
Bini is and uphiil or false flat sprint juts is on razor form with brute strength
Enjoy the rest could be watching history besdies ca.v
Contador v purito was legendary and that was more epic. But yes this battle is in its 5th YEAR ... PLUS it's the tdf and not the Vuelta.
So it's more like the great rivalries in tennis imo. And this is fabulous
Nah, greatest of all time.
Pogi and Jonas have had spectacular battles in the tour for years.
Lemond and Fignon had 1 spectacular time trial that determined a tour but nothing else exciting.
@@ggusta1 fuente de raid by contador and pulling it off brcause he gifted tiralongo a giro stage in2011 so despite being ijn astana he emptied humself thats the nuance that makes cycling magic. Trust me I used 2012 as benchmark for reason : ) liike you said it was amazing!!! The factthat these guys are matching and turning tideson each other for so many years in a ro as you said its a first. Sharing same ideas lol
Joao Almeida last climb was amazing. I agree with Benji, a special camera for Almeida dropping everyone would be good for us watch. Maybe good idea for Netflix but i doubt they had it
💯, Benji. Elbow flick from Jonas
Pogacar switched to riding defensively and only attacking when the doors are really open (rather than kicking them down) since he lost the sprint against Jonas. How much do you think that is benefiting him? Feels like a good strategy to not lose from this place at least.
I still think Tadej realized on the stage where he lost to Jonas that if he only attacked Jonas on the last climb, he would have won. I still think Jonas is better at longer steeper climbs but if he does not attack earlier, Tadej would just stick to his wheel and drop him on the last 3 to 4km before Jonas finds his pace or Tadej bonks.
The guy had fuel issues that day 100%, was a great reminder he need to eat and stay hydrated)
In my opinion, all Tadej needs to do is to remain defensive given his three-minute gap to Jonas. Stay with him and rely on sprint finish and do not attack unless Jonas attacks. In this way, he won't have to risk losing a lot of time on any "off" day and can potentially still gain because it is Jonas who has to attack now if he wants to win.
Pogi had his altitude camp in Isola 2000. He knows the area perfect now
The fact that visma, with their team, were able to drop almost every UAE rider today except yates and poggy is incredible. Jorgensen is good, but he shouldn't be putting the hurt on almeida, if UAE is supposed to be as good as they are. I think the difference between UAE and Visma LAB is how deep Jorgensen went for Jonas - nobody's doing that for tadej. Ultimately, didn't make the difference, but the way that visma rose to the challenge today was amazing
In fairness Almeida ended up performing well on the stage, just rides his own pace.
But yeah Matteo has been an absolute hero for visma this year, he did amazing today.
maybe the past few weeks was seeing if they can get another double podium.
44:10 wrong stage result
Vingegaard wasn't exactly grimacing, but there was a tell, a few times you could see on camera that the effort was beginning to hurt.
You showed on screen the stg 14 results not stage 15
Poor Lemmen gets called Lemon instead of Leyman even by people from his own Team XD
That’s how you pronounce it in Dutch xD
Hats of to Visma for trying, I’m sure they will try again, but Pog is a goat, hes on another level
Great ride by landa
48:14 Genuinely confused by the Remco discussion. He won the Vuelta in 2022 so this isn't his first grand tour. I agree this is the most consistent he's ever been, but he's super talented. I'm not that surprised by how well he's doing.
Their opinion and many others are pretty dismissive about his Vuelta because pogi and jonas weren’t there and Roglic crashed out and keep referencing to his crisis in the Vuelta last year.
I like "heart on your tongue" -- actually makes more sense than "heart on your sleeve".
And UAE rode 10/10 this weekend
They didn't do anything today though.
@@adshdhhhd7783 exactly
@@TheBostlthat’s not riding 10/10 though. Having the best rider in the world and just letting him do his thing doesn’t mean the team rode well.
@@charlierennie9192 team stay with him as much as possible, kept him hydrated and cool, not doing stupid things..100% i guess
@@FedericoG-p3w every team will give bidons and pour water over their team leader. Doesn’t mean they’re riding 10/10.
Tfw he slips a Jates in
Can you remind me why he says this again?
@@Tyler-c2m2k 3:28
@@Tyler-c2m2k 4:04
37:39 Tadej seems to have learned how to stay better hydrated nutrition and maintain his
temperature in the heat
Better team leadership and maturity
Yea i agree, at the same time this summer very different than previous one..we havent seen 35+ degrees (yet)
@@FedericoG-p3w he's also according to 'conventional wisdom ' not supposed to perform well at high elevation and Jonas would get him in the Alps. Last 3 stages Gained 1:30 on stage 19 7 seconds on 20 and capped off with 1 minute plus with nothing to gain but another stage. Let's take stage 21 out because it's usually a sprinter stage. When's the last time the maillot jaune won 3 of the last 4 stages?
Point being he's putting together a season unlike anything in 50 years and maybe ever. And now he might go to the Vuelta for another never been done achievement.
just to note. People are talking about last year Pogi losing 2’ on ITT. But they are forgetting that it is his home stage. He knows that stage in and out
Commentator also said JV motioned for TP to take a turn just before the attack.
I thought JV has better 20+ min power, but I guess not anymore. Pogacar does crazy watts, and I'm afraid that JV can't get to that level. Maybe remco can still improve
I think its clear that kuss is missing. If he is there in normal shape he would pull at least for 2 more km after jorgensen has finished. Further more van aert not in the Mountain shape of the Last years. If we remember how they gapped pogacar in the past, it was not so much that jonas has dropped him after Pacing 2 or 3km by himself but rather an extreme Hard leadout and then the final attack by jonas.
@@janwantula1773 Even if Visma had roglic and remco as domestiques they wouldn't drop pogacar today
@@Zawisza499 totally agreeing wirh you, when you saw vingegard Pacing out of the saddle for like a Minute and pogi just sitting calm on his wheel i was like this stage is over
@@Zawisza499would be really interesting to stack up how things are currently going vs if they had Kuss, Kruiswijk, and Van Baarle
@@janwantula1773agreed… for a moment it kind of looked like Pog was pedaling a little laboriously, but then Jonas clearly looked more disheveled a minute or two later
I feel like above 8-9% he was not able to go faster than Jonas. Yesterday and today. Or at least he didn't. But everything below he just rides away. These flattening finishes really suit his capabilities this year
France doesnt have many climbs above 9%. Thats more Spain and a bit Italy
That’s Pogis improvement compared to other years, Jonas is not able to drop him anymore on steep slopes. Now it’s on Jonas to improve on the shallower slopes, so he does not lose time there!
Not sure about that pal
Its the Tramontane wind Patrick!
Its Sham and Secretariat all over again. Heartbreaking.
pogacar is the best rider of all time anyone saying anything else are lieing to themself. He is now the best climbing performance in historty and he beats one of the best flandern riders of all time in mvdp there too like noone else would be close. He is by far the best rider of all time!
Merckx is the best rider of all time. Until pogi matches what Merckx did in grand tours and one day races then Merckx is pretty clearly the best ever.
@@charlierennie9192 Always hard to compare eras, Merckx is definitely the most successful. But Pog has reached the highest level of performance ever.
@@charlierennie9192 your just stupid then thats not my problem. If you think merckx would crush jonas uphill and mvdp in flandern ur stupid. Besides Pog already the best clmibing performance of all time now, merckx wouldnt even beat landa stop fooling yourself jesus🤣
Really hoped Jonas and visma had more in them.
This is not over yet. Pogi has blown up in the past. Jonas never has blown up
@@spacexander4239yes sure. And I mean last year Jonas was able to get minutes out of pogacar. But for the mental of visma and Jonas and the excitement of the tour it would have been great to see them crack pogacar
Pogacar improved a lot since 2022
@@spacexander4239the gaps are big this time though
@@spacexander4239 he has never successfully distanced pogi watch the race using your eyes next time. there is a difference between reeling in a gap and making a gap.
Will Visma accept this now or will they just go crazy in the last week and try to crack Pogacar? Yeah, I know it's highly unlikely for this to happen, but it's either that or they give up at all. I would love to at least see a fight until stage 20
Pog yesterday hit the table, today he break it, with this performance is better to pack our stuff and go home, nothing to do
As you said, when Pogacar is just better, what can you do on a hard stage like this.
I really loved Griescha's radio message from the car when Jonas crossed the line, basically saying "You did what you could today, don't beat yourself up. If Tadej is just that good, what more can you do?"
gg boys see u next year
No weekly show to recap Giro Donne? :(
you showed the Stage 14 results 44:20
Benji with the Flemish sayings :D He was correct though
high kJ is not working any more? 😂
The year-on-year improvement by everyone (but mostly UAE and pogi) just has to be discussed. How has pogi improved that much compared to the rest of his career? How his vingo at his all-time best despite the injuries?? How is remco in the top 40 all-time and buitrago superior to peak Froome??? Either the w/kg estimate model is wrong or something crazy is going on in the peloton
I've been wondering if the the w/kg-e model might be 10-40 watts off due to innovations in bike tech, especially rolling resistance, as teams have moved to wider tires and wide-profile aero tubeless wheelsets. Then there's helmets, socks, skinsuits, radio placement, etc.
In the Watts per Kilogram Explained article on the LR mainpage, they estimate bike weight and rider drag and make the claim that climbs over 4% gradient represent a parcour on which aero is less important. That's false, now. Aero depends on speed, not gradient, and they're riding at higher speed.
There's also 10-50 watts to be gained from consistent altitude training. If you've won the genetic lottery and respond to that with respiratory adaptations, you can become a watt-monster.
@@alexanderpolta but again how would all that have changed so dramatically in 1 year? they did the altitude camps last year too. they probably had similar bikes. and yet they are blowing the 2023 version of themselves out of the water
@@MartinRamette in two years, wheels and tires have expanded 4-6mm. everyone is on new integrated cockpits and wearing new skinsuits. descent speeds have ticked up significantly, just as you'd expect from riders going uphill faster, too.
Remco... the new white knight 🤩
Pogi is too strong right now. No visma tactics are going to change that
The only hope now is if the giro efforts hurt pogi in week 3 if not the tour is down because this is the best he has looked
The guys doesn't even seem to blink.
Pogi barely made efforts in the Giro
@@spacexander4239just riding is tiring, let's not pretend. This is not an easy race and it's 3 weeks.
No chance. He's in his peak form right now there's no way he falls off towards cracking on week 3. And don't forget, even then Jonas would have to find strength to put minutes into him, which is practicaly impossible.
watch and learn this is history being made the first since panta
What is better for quickstep between 2020 green jersey + 4 stages or 3rd in gc and white jersey with 1 stage?
I remember when 6.7 watts per kilo was sus, now he pulls 7 and its his nutrition and aero, cycling never changed new times old habits 🤣
pogi on for the triple?
Hopefully no, would be just a beauty to see him in rainbow jersey next year
Heart on tongue 😂
Thats how we say that in Holland and Belgium
If I could see the elbow flick then it's beyond obvious and tadej didn't wait for more invitations. 33:40
I'm baffled what Jonas was thinking or if it was just out of habit. But that was a really poor moment by JV . Flicking the yellow jersey... Yeah I'm done and I will be happy with 2d place.
They said mountains are JV territory? Look at his face in the finish line.😂😂😂 try to stop Pog at Vuelta.😂😂😂
well pog is on the juice this year, thats what we saw. Maybe they all are he improved 8% in one year not possible in any condition.
@@TellusJDthats what you and other delusional people saw, go back watching football
Team matters. Missing Kuss, coupled with Jonas catostrophic injury and UAE stronger mountains team explains alot
Best scene was when pogi rode over a flip flop a spectator lost 😂
the flying kick was my favorite
Carapaz squirting water at the guy running 😂
It aint finished yet, people. Aint finished yet.
😅😅😅😅😅
And now the outcome has come out Pogacar has now beaten all climbing performances ever made by the greatest dopers. Bjarne Riis record on Heutacam on aprox 6,97 watts for 34 some minutes is now tadej pogacar. 6,98 for 38 minutes. He would beat any doper including pantani riis, amrstrong, ulrich today.
More watts and for 4 minutes longer. Pogacar has improved his best ever climb by about 7-8%. Up to this year noone was close and pocagar was never the best climber doing the best numbers he was few % behind, even with vingegaard imrpoving this year he still smashes him. But also this comes after the day pogacar already did a top 3 climbing effort in history. I dont know what to say other than I dont believe in the UAE anymore all their riders have been improving with ridicoulus numbers compared to any of their former years. Yates in tour de suiss making a complete outlier performance that usually only vingegaard could do, I might not believe in a clean cycling sport anymore. This year is so much faster up the mountains than the former years its like Usuain bolt dropping a 9,0 second sprint mid career. That is how much pogi improved for this year and its after he did the giro, which should be a disadvantage.
There has been talk about faster tdfs every year but it was not actually true, but this year pogi beats everything all old records when a year or 2 ago he couldnt even finish within 2 minutes of them.
Cool story. Tadej trained all winter on long duration efforts without explosiveness. Furthermore, he did altitude camp before the Tour. Normally he would just do Tour of Slovenia and chill at sea level.
@@MeesterJand he rode a Giro right before which, even if it was easy, is usually hard enough to have a hard time at the TDF, at least to win it. Who can believe this is normal? Anyway, keep in mind JV also broke records if I'm not wrong. Those guys are doped, like most of the peloton, for sure.
@@MeesterJ So you argue its a cool story that he just beat every single doped record in terms of climbing, albeit with Jonas pulling him the first 10 k. But thats just not really explainable for any training further 8% improvement when hes already the elite of the elite is just dumb in 1 year.
Something has happened in cycling this year that is yet to be explained.
All the speculation last year was not really justified, this year it is most definitely justified, they have never even been close to the records, we are talking improvements of more than 2 minutes on the big mountains. That pogi beats vingegaard is not the issue, the numbers are the issue they are better than the guys that had 55-60 hematocrit levels in the 90s. Riis, Pantani, Ulrich, Romminger. The top doped that had doped for 5-10 years. They had as light and even lighter bikes than today, just less aero but that means nothing on the mountains.
I struggle to find any logical reason how pogacar should suddenly be 8% better than ever in 1 year. Jonas is also better than ever, but with a far smaller margin.
@@adshdhhhd7783 Yeah he beat records too I see now though not as much, and you would believe being 56 kg would at least get it to be more explainable. However something happened this year, that is beyond anything else.
The breaking of records and whatever isn't even the eyebrow raising thing. The thing to question is the ridiculous improvement he made relative to his past performances.
Pogi is now on the same medicine as those Visma dudes have been the last two, three years. Sorry guys, game over!!
Then why tf you watch it?😂
He was already on some good stuff in the past few years.
I agree with Sean Kelly regarding Visma's tactics today. Should've paced it so that Jonas could attack a bit later and not have to spend as much time in the wind by attacking from so far.
It wouldn't have made a difference.
He had to try far out in order to gain serious time on Pogacar. There's a risk involved in that if Pogacar was able to stay in the wheel and save energy, which he obviously could without too much trouble, but a bold attempt by Jonas even though he failed.
Yes, he could have minimized the time loss if the pace was slower and he didn't take the front himself, but that was not the goal today. As a very small bonus he took a lot of time on Remco.
He had to try he believed he was stronger on this sort of climb, if we had a roglic level guy to pull for a bit more maybe just maybe Jonas could have made it too hard for pogi to attack and a bit easier for Jonas, but pogi shows a form that noone has ever acheived the calculations of the stage is out he beat the dopers from the 90s on all measures.
@@clauso72 Hi, i do appreciate that he was gambling to try and gain serious time. However I still think (and thought at the time), why keep pushing, when you know you are on the edge and Pogi is holding your wheel easily. Remco is no threat to him, he has ridden away from him every time. So i think it made more sense to accept you are not going to make it stick today, sit up and try and minimise losses or agree to ride with Pogi. If you don't lose much time today you have a chance on another stage, maybe you need to do it on the Bonnette stage where you have the super high altitude and the intensity. Galibier had the altitude, today had the length, maybe altitude and intensity is what can get the job done. Today was basically a repeat of what happened on Cauteret - and it seemed inevitable Pogi would counter. This way Jonas has put himself in a situation where he has to make Pogi fully crack, but with a 3 minute lead, Pogi can now afford to let go of the wheel and minimise losses, which he might not do when the gap is 2 minutes, so makes it less likely to happen.
Title is terrible. I know.. clicks n views but it's too far. They tried to take time back...
After jv could see pogs was on it, I think he paced to gain time on remco to solidify 2nd on the podium
With THESE numbers that TP can now suddenly produce for 40-45 minutes, he'll win the next 7 TDF's pretty much effortless. Oh, the excitement of looking forward to that...
Man the drugs Pogi is on are just amazing. What ever he is on allows him to stay a the highest level throughout the entire season. Who needs to peak anymore.
If you want a superhuman, watch a Mavel movie because in real life Pogi( in my opinion) is super doped. I would be fine if he was in this shape a few times a season, but not the whole season sorry no. I know he is not the only one, but he us really drawing attention to himself. Please dont say he nevwr tested positive because we all know how much weight that holds.
Its hard to watch these guys smashed records( that were made by doped riders) and not even seem to be out of breath. Its just hard to watch.
To be fair, he's clearly not the only one doping, the numbers are insane.
When pog fires his shots early he loses time to Jonas. Granon, stage 11. Get him to fire a shot early with a super early attack.
Pog doesn't need to fire shots anymore. That's the issue
If Jonas loose the TDF 2024 he did not loose it, because of Tadej (at least not right now), he would loose it because of Stage 4 in the BC. Normaly Jonas should not be even close to the Top 10.
Lanterne rouge is never going to day anything about doping but even Patrick and Benji both know deep down how fucking juiced the peleton is right now.
Worst it will ever be.
Last year you had wout dropping climbers on mountain stages…
This year you have pogi dropping record wattages day after day dropping climbers 10kgs lighter than him. (Who are also doing record watts)
Last year vingo was doing TT like gana .
Crackdown is needed In the peleton or make it legal so everyone can fight it like men. 8:07
Exactly. I am not naive, I know this sport never has and probably will never be clean. My main issue is that 1/ it pretends to be 2/ doping is not egal between riders. I looked into the Armstrong days and this guy had access to the best stuff with great means in order to avoid being detected (including his cancer past), that was not the case of the rest of the peloton. That's mostly what made him so successful.
How can these guys beat all the dopers from the past but be clean?
Cause you know, food and aero bikes. Lol
diet, technology on bikes, training has become more efficient and effective
@@Eric_Kannemeyersure, I'm glad you think that's that simple.
So what if Tadej is indeed equal to Jonas on long climbs, isn't that bad for the Tour in the future? Sorry but I don't want a guy that wins everything, that's also not good for cycling.
Shouldn't we hope that Visma or another rider can at least get to the level of Tadej in the tour, sorry but else I'm not going to watch every stage anymore just like I did when Froome was dominating, I hated the Tour back than.
Isn't it was pog is doing this year? Look at the gaps.
No? Because even if Pogi is dominating everywhere it's still so much fun because of the way he's racing. Excitement isn't about who wins it's about how it's raced. Pogi would attack again and again even if he had a 10 minute lead unlike Vingegaard or Froome. A Pogi-dominated Tour is much more fun than an equal one without him. I'm sick of this "it's boring" argument.
I think if vingegaard puts a whole season of training in with just the tour in mind and the Visma team is in top shape and there are no injuries what so ever he can still hurt pogacar big time but the parcours, the team and Jonas’s best shape have to be there for
Yep I had the same fear back in 2021 when he was so dominant and I got the same feeling again and I see nobody except Jonas to be in the range of 5 min in the next five years and especially with his team now…
And let’s hope there are new guys stepping up! Like pogi stepped up in 1 or two seasons
Doped, riding at higher wattage than Marco Pantani and Lance Armstrong!!! Thought-provoking
Both Jonas and pogacar made the best performances ever
Also getting stuck in the Armstrong era and ignoring 20 yearsof advancement in sport science, nutrition and tech is also tought provoking.
@@dudewhereismyfitnesssorry, I don't believe the advancements in the sport can explain how the records from guys who were taking hardcore stuff can be smashed like this, especially from a guy who just rode the Giro. This is very naive unfortunately
@@adshdhhhd7783why don’t you believe this? Just because of your gut feeling or what? The whole peloton is faster than ever, they break records in every race, the classics and the mountain stages! This collective improvements just points to structural improvements in nutrition, training and technology mate, but keep ruining cycling for yourself..
@@ile1973no, because it doesn't make any sense. Especially on climbs like that. Armstrong's days were not 50 years ago, I started watching the TDF during that era. Yes, there have been great improvements, but it should maybe allow guys nowadays to match those old performances (maybe not even), not smash them like that. You have to understand that those performances are abnormal.
This is just ridiculous. You have to dare to talk about doping. This is not normal. Doing nearly 7 w/kg for 40 min? Get out of here, he beats the worst dopers in history. And you jokers are full of admiration: Pog best ever!!!
Agreed, this is odd to say nothing.
On witch stages did Remco realy showed some balls? Beside th eattack on the Grqavel Stage, were he then decided not to pull, only because another ride did not pull, he did nothing that needed balls. But its fine for me...but if a person calls out other persons, he should life up to his own statments. He is riding a very calculated tour so far...
He has attempted to match Vingegaard and Podgi’s every pace every ascent rather than playing safe and just looking at the riders behind him.
@@dardo1201 Nope, he himself said, he was not pulling or try to pull, cause he thouhgt he was on the limit and if so, he would loose more time. He could had tryed but therefor you need "balls" :D. And also in another interview Remco stated that he do not wanted to get the gap times to the both guys in front...only to the guys behind him. For me ts plausable, that he rides this way...but its the save way. Or in Remco´s words...the no balls way :D.
@@heidewatzka look, i explained to you why you're wrong, if you want to talk in circles, that's your choice, bye
@@dardo1201 You explaint nothing. And now you are bitching like a little girl. I even told you what Remco himself said and what everybody can also look up on TV. But hey...you explaint to me :D. What you did is smash some phrase into a comment and sell it as an fact. Oh Boy.....
Well, im done watching. Stupid and boring to watch any more, since its over. This is why the TDF struggles to gain fans. Once a big lead develops, its over. Bleh
I do not find watching record performance after record performance impressive or entertaining when I KNOW who will win every single time. Total waste of my time to even watch and pretend a different outcome is possible. La Vuelta cant come soon enough
Pogi will win the Vuelta so don't get too excited
It's glorious to watch. I cannot imagine not enjoying watch the best humans doing the things they are the best in the world at.
It's as aesthetic as it gets.
Plus, with Pogacar, you may know the final result...but unlike sky train you have NO idea how that result takes shape
Pogi team 🫶❤️🔥🚀👑🚵🥇🏆🙏