HOW TO: Fully Rollerize a 4L80E
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2021
- Output! Reaction Carrier! Direct Drum! Forward Hub!
Also internally dual-feed the Direct piston, add a sixth Direct clutch, some valve body changes, including an Over-Run Clutch valve!
1:25 Dual-Feed Direct - Part 1
1:53 Dual-Feed Direct - Part 2
2:00 Rollerizing Output (TH350 Pump Bearing)
5:44 Rollerizing Reaction Carrier (TH350 Pump Bearing)
7:19 Rollerizing Center Support at the Direct Drum (TH350 Pump Bearing)
8:50 Heavy Duty Intermediate Snap Ring install (727 Torqueflight)
9:08 Adding a 6th Direct Clutch
11:48 Rollerizing Forward Hub (Ford 1F1Z-7F404-AA)
12:54 Pump Mods
17:11 Valvebody Upgrades
18:10 TransGo oversize AFL Valve install
18:18 Sonnax Over-Run Clutch Valve install
20:33 Dual-Feed Direct - Part 3
Detailed Build: www.gwellwood.com/project-car...
Articles I used:
1. gearsmagazine.com/magazine/co...
2. gearsmagazine.com/magazine/im...
Websites I used:
1. bobistheoilguy.com/forums/thr...
2. bobistheoilguy.com/forums/thr...
FREE Transmission Stand Plans: www.gwellwood.com/tools/trans...
Big Blues by Audionautix audionautix.com
Creative Commons - Attribution 3.0 Unported - CC BY 3.0 (goo.gl/BlcHZR)
Free Download / Stream: bit.ly/big-blues
Music promoted by Audio Library • Big Blues - Audionauti... - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Finally got it on the road - transmission runs and drives perfectly!
That's funny you just commented and I'm about to be putting this together now and this information is helpful. Considering getting my parts machined to I can rollerize them.
We do not have Shop in the UK, but if we did this is the Man I would want teaching it. What an amazing educator. Thank you Sir.
Finally a video showing the machining of the center support and the carrier to replace the washers with bearings. Well done!
Man of many talents!!
Pocket protector chock full of writing stick goodness!!
Thanks, G!!
Man of many skills and good judge of music . Have to admit I was lost more then found but enjoyed the build . Thanks for sharing
No worries. It's intended more for those with a bit of rebuild experience. I imagine most will be lost (grin).
Amazing work! Thanks for sharing!
Very Nice work ,,,very informative ,,, love watching your videos
The sonnax over run clutch valve helps also to apply that clutch even in reverse, think about going in reverse with a heavy tow in the mud. You´ll want that overrun clutch applied too.
Awesome video! I sure hope you put out a video letting us know how everything works 🤞🏻
You can be sure of that!
I can't wait to see how well it works. Not that it matters, I'm copying your build anyway! THANK YOU!
You seem like you know what your doing. Nice.
Thanks !! Awesome video !
great info Thanks Subscribed
WELL DONE !
I am more likely, and less qualified, to operate a nuclear reactor than to rebuild an automatic transmission. But it was fun to watch and marvel. Keep up the good work, man. This truck will rip!
Their is nothing more rewarding than hear an engine you built start for the first time or a transmission you bench built yourself. I believe the you did the correct updates and preventive measures needed. At 19:19 was that regular bacon or Canadian bacon? Since the late 70’s when I went thru a “JATCO - 3N71B” 3sdp, RWD Datsun/Nissan, I was shocked to find Torrington bearings thru out. Ford used this same trans in the glorious Ford Fairmont (Cheap Plastic Squeaky Dash) because there is so much internal frictional looses. It is a same one has to add these in kit form or one here & there. Very, very nice video and explanations. Enjoyed the jazz as well. As alway, thanks for the enjoyable video. They take work fee ever think of!
Wow 👌🏻 👏🏻 😍 👍🏻 this video is making my life easier rn LOL
This guy knows what he’s doing and showing a lot of things the super duper best in the world Richard from performance transmission” only knows.
There’s thousands of good transmission builders Richard is NOT the best! This gentleman’s work is just as good, if not better and he should have 500,000 subscribers!!!
Holy smokes!
Do you perform this for customers and how much if you do ? Thank you Robert
The bearing in the pocket of the machined front planet goes in black side up with the silver side making contact with the shim, and the bearing in the pocket of the machined center support goes in metal side up, with the metal portion of the bearing making contact with the direct drum. Is this correct?
Sir , Bravo magnificent I love your professionalism I love how thorough you machine and made adjustments bring up all resistance please sir I would love for you to build my transmission how much teacher do you charge for your services? I want to have my transmission shipped to you I have two actually I would love this done too
Looking for the part numbers for the bearing that you used. Especially in the center support. Also do you have a link to a place to buy different Torrington bearings? Thanks for the vid
I added bearing details in the video description. All the added Torringtons are TH350 Pump bearings EXCEPT the forward hub Torrington, which is a Ford 1F1Z-7F404-AA. Any trans parts shop can get you these bearings. Except maybe the Ford one - that one might be elusive, but you can probably make something else work.
Can’t wait for an update on how it performs. Did you drill a small relief hole in the direct drum or is it not necessary ?
I did not, but debated long and hard whether or not to. The consensus is if you're going to really rev the snot out of this, you should, as it prevents a "centrifugal" apply of the clutch. I have no intention of revving to the moon (boost, instead!), so I did not.
Great job impressed BIG TIME
Where you located, what would it cost to do what you did?
And what would you charge 🤔? To rebuild a transmission
I appreciate your enthusiasm. There is likely a transmission shop around you that can do this work - I shared what I was doing with my favourite local shop (I bought my thinner steels for the direct from them), and they knew all about these mods. Ask around the drag racers and four-wheelers and you'll find a shop that can do this. I think I spent around $1000 (CDN) in parts alone. I'm way up in Canada, eh!?
Wow. Nice work! Thanks for sharing.
Now I just wish I could do all these mods to the tired 4L80 in my '04 320K-mile 2500HD GMC truck.
Where can I get a well built 4L80E transmission for my 2500 hd? Rollerized or non- rollerized?
Hi I put the pump in the case backward without the o ring to align the two halves.
I've done that before on other transmissions. I can't remember why I didn't do it this time. Might be because I didn't think that far in advance, and the guts were already in it (grin).
You should make a video showing how to dial
in the endplay into these 4 locations taking into account the fact that you rollerized everything. I haven’t come across one.
Front endplay, Rear endplay, Center support to rear rollerized reaction carrier float, forward hub to direct drum.
That's odd. I thought I did. In the video. Weird.
@@GregWellwood My bad lol was watching another video in a different window and got the vids mixed up.
Awesome video! What bearing are u using for center support to direct drum?
Part numbers in description.
@@GregWellwood got it, thank you for this video and info.
Is that bushing driver for the pump bushing a custom made CNC piece or jtool?
I make my own bushing drivers.
I have a 4L80E transmission on my 4x4 truck. Just had it rebuilt recently, everything is fine except for the 2nd to 3rd gear upshifts. This gear shift would always flare (engine RPM will always spike up 150 to 250 RPM and then it would shift into 3rd). Any ideas as to what is causing this or the solution to fix this problem?
Many thanks!
third gear shifts are a common complaint. Can drill the valve body separator plate hole from the very puny size from the factory to a decently larger hole which will more quickly engage third. some people even leave the third gear checkball out. but all this can be done by removing the pan and leaving the transmission in the vehicle. usually
What's a good speed to cut those parts on a lathe? Is that a carbide bit? Also what angle are you using?
Speed is determined by the size of diameter of the cut. Slower if it chatters. These are High Speed Steel cutters, because I can grind them to fit the places I need them to fit in. I don't know what you mean by angle - is there a spot in the video in particular?
Ok, first of all let me just say, Your awesome. So, I got a spare reaction carrier and decided to machine it for the bearing. This was a practice run. I got my .075 machined but what keep that bearing centered up inside the other hub? Where the sun gear rides? Is it just the recess that I machined? Also what did you use as a cutter? Those rivets are giving me some trouble. Thank you😊
Yes, the shoulder you machine holds it in place just fine. I clearanced the ID of the bearing just enough to get it past the sun gear. There will not be enough end play when you are done for it to go anywhere. In this job, I machined with boring old HSS cutters.
@@GregWellwood ok, cool. I appreciate your response and your knowledge. I’m an automotive tech but I build transmissions on the side. This is not my first 4L80 but it’s the first one I have modified like this. Your video has been invaluable. Thanks again
By using that bushing didn’t you block the lube hole going to the tail housing?
There is no lube hole there. What looks like a lube hole in the video, is the "stake" mark where the original bushing was locked into position.
I've got an issue on my current 4l80e build. When lower half is assembled, the output shaft turns freely CW and CCW until I install the center support bolt. As it starts to bottom out, the output shaft becomes hard if not impossible to turn CW (as looking at it from behind). If I loosen the bolt 1/8 turn, the output shaft turns freely again. I removed the band, and it does the same. I tried to tap tap tap the output shaft, side to side, thinking it was a little cockeyed but it made no difference. Everything feels fine on the bench. The sprag is new. All bushings were replaced. end play is .022. Any ideas how to fix this?
Without being able to see it and play with it, I don't know. Did you for sure put the sprag in the right direction? It's easy to install in reverse.
@@GregWellwood The sprag is correct. The output shaft spins fine both directions and the sprag locks up fine until you turn that bolt the last 1/8 rotation. It feels like a bushing is off somewhere, probably internally between assemblies.. I think I'm going to clamp that assembly by the center support in a vice to see if I can replicate the issue outside of the case.
@@GregWellwood OK. it appears like the rear planetary is binding somewhere internally. I am trying to work it back and forth to loosen it up. The output shaft is new, so maybe it just needs to be broken in.
You will more than likely never see this. But where did you find the holder to fit an engine stand like that?
Never see what? FREE Transmission stand plans here: www.gwellwood.com/tools/transmission-stand/
What model of bushing you use part number
Which bushing?
Hmm... just a "wee" bit more involved than working with a manual Honda tranny. I think you lost me more often than kept me in this video! Nice job.
Yeah, it's not really a "beginner's guide," it's the crazy odd stuff that most people don't do.
Wouldn't a sonnax no walk bushing be good enough?
The "No Walk" bushing is a very good mod, and adequate for any rebuild. These mods are much, much, more than just the rear bushing.
Where to find information ? Clearance to know if he wiork for sure
Which information?
Putting paint on the outside of the case makes it hold HEAT inside (a transmissions worst enemy ) but I know a lot of shops do to make them pretty
True. But probably not as bad as the quarter inch of oil-soaked dirt that's going to get on it in the next few years.
i'm sure that the .01 degree difference in temps from paint have been the demise of many transmissions
If worried about heat and the paint application-
Consider using Techline thermal dispersant coating instead. It is flat black however.
Then there is testing that shows bare aluminum quickly produces aluminum oxide which is like steel rusting except it only goes on the surface but is a huge insulator.
So putting something on vs nothing eliminates the oxidation.
Going silver colored has negative impact but that is becoming such a minor impact at that level it’s hard to duplicate in testing. Simple flat black offset is the answer for low budget emissivity fix.
is rollerizing just the output worth it if I don't have access to a lathe to do all the other ones?
Yes, it's easy. What I'm showing here is kinda "over-the-top."
@@GregWellwood Sweet thank you!
How did you get all this info. And do you know if it is a proven method??.Just wondering.
Links to all the articles and webpages I researched are in the description.
Can it handle 4digit numbers from a twin turbo LS engine? Looking for 1200HP capabilities..what would the cost estimate be around for something like this
From what I've read, you're going to want a billet input shaft, forward hub, and intermediate hub. I'm into this trans for $900CDN in parts as it is; the budget for billet extras for me (want) would have to come at the cost of something else (do not want). I know my limit, and must play within it. "If you don't break traction, you're going to break something else."
@@GregWellwood would u be able to contact me..or this is just for entertainment purposes only as a hobby? I am interested. if I'm understanding u clearly I could achieve that 1200HP capacity 1 of 2 ways?
THIS video is me merely sharing what I'm currently doing on my own personal project. I studied these mods so I could do them, and I tried to share it in a way that makes sense.
I am NOT doing the project for views, or to build a business. My videos are either 1) informational for my students to help them with their projects, or 2) me merely sharing the hobby I use to escape from my day job. I do love teaching, so all my videos will have an "educational" element to them. I do not build transmissions for a living, nor do I want to.
Might not be the answer you want, but it's where I'm at. Cheers!
Follow the links in the description to see where I learned this from, and you will find more and more links on what you need to do to handle 1200hp. That kind of power will be getting costly, and probably (consequently) less fun as a daily driver (which mine is).
Hey thanks so much it's the answer I needed for sure.. and awesome vid 👌
Have one built by ete in Minnesota. You can also find new old stock at auction at times since Hummer's used the same transmission.
Nice work. BUT, you forgot to "rollerize" the pump washer! Lol! Also, the overrun clutch valve brings on the overruns in 1st-3rd in the o.d. position. Thus preventing overdrive sprag failure during launch (no need to manually shift to protect sprag). As for the downshift,... You'll break something on a forced downshift. That valve won't save you!!!😅
If only I had a lathe
At 8:00 in the the video when using a height gauge to measure the distance from the front face of the mainshaft to the front face of the direct clutch housing and calling it dimension A. And then removing the direct clutch housing, install the thrust bearing, reinstall the direct clutch housing, and repeat the measurement procedure and calling it dimension B... and then repeating this procedure using shims between the bearing pocket and the bearing to adjust the bearing height, until dimension B is 0.005” to 0.010” less than dimension A, if you do this and pull up on the center support, wouldn't you feel it making contact with the bearing between it and the direct drum, or should you not feel the play of 0.010" if that is your measurement? Same thing with the bearing in the front planet, if you lift up on the center support while pressing down on the front planet, won't you feel the play if it's 0.010"? Certainly wouldn't expect to be able to feel 0.002" but I didn't have the shims to get it to .002" so 0.010" was the best I could do there.
At 8:00 we're shimming the direct hub to get it for sure sitting on the bearing (.005-.010 worth of for sure). The center support should be touching the bearing, should be touching the direct hub, all together. This is to take the thrust loads off the shafts going through the center section, and stopping them AT the center section. Does that help?
@@GregWellwood Perfect. So that explains the direct drum. Now for the center support. I get a reading, with just the bearing, and zero the gauge. Then put in a 20 shim under the bearing, dial reads 0.005" So if a 20 shim got me .005' would the logical thing be to replace the 20 shim with a 10 shim so that my endplay is 0.005"?
Exactly! We're closing up the clearance, but we need to know how much it has to be closed up. To do that, we have to go "too far", then do math to "go back." You win!!
@@GregWellwood
And with the endplay being 0.005", the gauge read 0.000" but that's OK because we know that 20 thou minus 10 thou is going to put us were we need it even though the gauge says zero after going from the 20 shim to the 10 shim. So the gauge reading zero is actually to be expect then even though you have 0.005" of endplay? For the direct to center support, measured without the bearing, zero’d the gauge. Put in just the bearing and got -0.002” Put in 0.050” shim under bearing and dial read -0.0185” Put in a 0.040” shim under bearing and dial read -0.007” I'm assuming that's good?
The gauge will read zero because you created clearance "inside," which will not be seen up by the dial indicator anymore. For the Direct/Center your 0.040" shim sounds correct, according to your math.
My 4L60E needs replacing to a roller 80 . It has very strange quirks , lol
Inforative video, BUT, please do your first burn out over the guy who chose the music!
Impossible. Mind you, to me, there is only two kinds of music: Heavy, and Metal. But I'd say less people would like that. I originally had The Wiggles on here, but got busted for copywrite.
As a shop teacher you shouldn't be calling FRICTION plates clutches
The plates combined make up clutch pack, plain and friction or steel and friction is OK but 'steel and clutches'?
Yes.
Good video. I really could of done without the music but I'm also a stick in the mud no nonsense type. I do all my own machine work also and fully rollerize . I strictly do th400 and 4l80. Oh and nv4500 but there al.ost a thing of the past like the BW T-10 & Muncie 22
This is not an $89 alternator. How can something worth up to $5-$7000, be so obscure?
"Well I think this is the way...well I'll point them all in the same direction... just in case it matters?!?!"
What the heck?!
So if it's not right, call AAA for a tow, and we'll remove the transmission again until we get it right?! Some people do it this way, some don't!?! Oh, let's do the math and turn it down in a lathe. What?!
Too much folly for me. Never knew you could play so many games with a massive drive line component, that if you just get a nick in a seal, too much end play, too much run-out, this oil fitting will melt your tranny, etc etc. then the master tech is giving you a repair bill of $5600!
Everybody needs to be on the same page on these damn things and stop bilking the consumer for so much hard earned money.
Most of these never break on their own. It's usually somebody did something different or dumb.
In my classes, I share with the students the different philosophies that people have in what they do, and encourage the kids to think about each one and chose what makes the most sense for them. I also try to show the kids how I work through learning something new - because there will always be something new to learn. This video is not your typical garden-variety rebuild, it's going well beyond what would be considered "normal," and I believe I understand what these particular mods are trying to accomplish. In the description you will find the links to the articles from Gears Magazine, and to the forums with inputs from reputable builders, where I gathered this information. At any rate, regardless of the different philisophies, "I can pay a professional to screw it up, or I can screw it up myself for free." Your pro-built transmission can still come home on the hook - I've re-done MANY things that "professionals" have done poorly. I've made my fair share of misteaks too. That's part of learning how to do what we do. I try to facilitate learning with my students, and I share what I've learned to you folks as well - even though THIS video is WAY above what my students can do. Thanks for watching!
@@GregWellwood Well said. Again, I stand for practicality, the hard working consumer not interested in games. Just 100,200,300,000 miles of service for a $2100 to $5600 tranny or a new $83,000 truck with one in it. It seems we're more in trials with these silly things, more like prototypes rather than proven reliable drivetrain components.
I have 524k on my original diesel engine. Yet these trannys are coming unglued at anytime. 5 miles, 300 miles, 23,000 miles... convertor shudder in newer trucks etc... Just too much hardship to the poor consumer, then the shops are all over the place in repair technique and protocol, pricing and turnaround time. But Godspeed to you and giving back to the community by teaching.