1000 mile Solar EV?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
- Can Aptera Really Get 40 Miles a Day From the Sun?? - Sometimes!
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@Fairburne69
It all depends on the length of the conversation…. If all you get is 30seconds, you gotta pique interest. In My longer conversations, I get to my wonderments on Arizona summers… will I be using up my solar energy to maintain ambient temps in the car? Will it be better to continue parking in the shade during those 120 degree days? I’m looking forward to finding out.
But not everyone is willing to listen to me wax poetic about Aptera long enough to get to that part of the conversation
So true!! Thank you!
Yes… Or speak as fast as TH-camr Tailosive ! Breathing optional 😉
@@elertus Hes great but he edits out all the dead space, Many YTers did this a couple years ago. He never stopped. It works for him!
@@dtl Does the Aptera Excitement might play in too? 😉
ABSOLUTELY....Aptera's marketing should be transparent. Aptera's attributes are great all around on all the models, at any battery range, in any climate, at all the different prices for each model! Share the whole picture!!!
Thank you Bob!!!
That poster doesn't understand how much sunshine Seattle actually gets. Even in December.
Glad to hear that. Turns out that sun is important. 🤣
Totally agree with you!
Thank you!
Aptera advertises it, I believe by saying, "Up to 40 miles per day of solar energy", which I already took into consideration as being optimal conditions. I know how solar works, more or less. I know that shade, clouds, rain, snow, and obviously night time can all affect solar recharge rate. I'm not expecting 40 miles a day 100% of the time, year round. I don't think anyone should, even if living in sunny areas.
When they talk about range and price, they seem to talk about the max spec model with 1,000 miles of range, but then say "starts around $26k", which is what might confuse people. They should stick to just talking about the launch edition specs and price, but comment that other options will be available.
That's a great idea! Talk about LE and say other options are coming. This is why we love this community. We can learn so much from each other! Thank you!!!!
The key are the words "Up To". In June here in Albuquerque, New Mexico, it's 47 miles/day. In December in London, UK, it's 2 miles/day. Each person needs to get figures for their location.
For sure.
Much Love
Same!
Efficiency comes standard on all models!!!
Yes!!!!! Hahaha love this comment!!
Just for fun, a little positively- charged word problem/ thought experiment. Let's say my wife, who has a 50 mile roundtrip work commute on weekdays, goes to the spaceship Monday morning, and OH NO! We forgot to plug it in! Only half a battery and 200 miles!
She heads to work. and the ship only recovers a disappointing 30 solar miles. Range down to 180 miles.
Tuesday, same thing. Range down to 160.
Wednesday, more forgetfulness and disappointment, 140 miles.
Thursday, 120 miles.
Friday, 100 miles.
Over the weekend, a mere 60 miles from solar.
Next Monday, range is only 160 miles.
Oh wait. We only lost 40 miles all week! We could live on the wild side and do this all month without even plugging in!
I know. This blew my mind too!
😳
I did a similar calculation, looking at battery capacity and having a smaller solar system on the Aptera. In general, I might trickle charge it once or twice a year for local errands/commute. Full solar would be more important to me if I was camping or doing frequent get-away weekend vacations, that ate into the battery reserve.
I'm wondering how the mpg-equivelent will be calculated. If the vehicle is never plugged in (so never officially fueles up off the grid), does that mean it could be getting infinite miles per kwh for some people ? That would really take the phrase "you mileage may vary" to a whole other level.
Totally agree. And that is what brings TCO (total cost of ownership) down. Should be emphasized way more in official communication.
@@tfloyd6651 definitely!
@@e-economy- so true
They have always said "up to 40 miles per day." Best case scenarios are what businesses usually tout. The major auto manufacturers usually say, this Prius gets up to 58 miles per gallon. That's true, with a tailwind, driving at 37 mph, on flat ground. But they couch it with, your milage may vary. Perfect conditions are rare, and most consumers are aware of this, but still it's much improved over the other vehicles that are being offered in today's marketplace. Chad, common sense is uncommon today, that is why they invented artificial intelligence!
🤪 Good point!
This video addresses one of my "pet peeves". I really, really dislike it when Aptera simply says it'll get 40 miles a day of solar range. Chris Anthony said exactly that, again, as recently as the interview with KOMO News of Seattle.
Thank you. This topic has gotten a lot of similar comments. I think we are on to something 🤔
I agree palindromeambigram. What's also disconcerting for me is how many Aptera "supporters" spread misinformation too. Here are examples from the comments/replies below:
"It has always been made clear that will be the results in Southern California" (NO IT HASN'T)
"Aptera has been pretty clear that the 40 miles of solar range is the best possible, under perfect circumstances." (NO THEY HAVEN'T)
"They have always said "up to 40 miles per day."" (NO THEY HAVEN'T)
"They say up to 40 miles ,people have to learn the American language" (Yes, on occasion but lately it's mostly been just "40 miles a day")
Thank you. We will try to do better. I know I'm sometimes not careful enough. We definitely want a clear and honest expectation set. We appreciate your comment!
Although the "Up to" text was always enough for me, and I hope for most, to realize it's an added benefit and MAY provide as much as 40 miles a day, while you are stuck in your office and the car is on that sunny parking lot outside your office building for 9 hours, there is an added thought. Once at home I will simply unplug that lava lamp in the garage and plug in my Aptera to the 110V outlet. Kidding on the lava lamp, but the other option was my coffee maker.
Lava lamp was the right call. 🤣🤣
I have always known I live in an area that isn't sunny all day (plenty of days not at all) sooo....I never expected 40 miles a day. The Aptera will be by far the best EV out there. And I own a BMWi3. There is nothing to compare the Aptera to, it's going to make history and I want to be part of it. Remember when I took you to hands across America? Well kinda made you go.
🤣
"The Aptera will be by far the best EV out there.": That depends on the situation. It _could_ be the best, if you only need to move 2 people max, can't afford electricity or petrol (actually, if we take the costs (in the long run) of climate change in account, none of us could afford using petrol), live in a sunny place, don't have to commute many miles, etc. Only thing is, I don't have $32.000 laying around. Otherwise I would purchase one (as soon as production really starts).
June in San Diego is very cloudy. It is called the June gloom. So don't always expect 40 miles a day with the Aptera. You forgot to mention that you can charge the Aptera on a 110 outlet at 13 miles per hour (last I heard). No need for a 240 charger. I temper the hype on the Aptera, but expect it to give more efficiency than any other EV out there.
For sure!! We have mentioned the 110v charging speed in other videos. It's a great reminder. Thank you!
@@dtl "We have mentioned the 110v charging speed in other videos." All due respect, your videos don’t have the same reach… 110v charging should be mentioned by Aptera. Mostly kidding as I know you know that. 😀
I agree 100%. Need to compare apples and apples... oranges and oranges. CA, in my opinion, tauts the 1000-mile range a little to liberally without the "fine print" (it's coming WAY later and it costs WAY more). He's better with the solar range -- he usually says "up to 40 miles range from the sun" and does mention some locations (he likes to mention Seattle) won't get as much. But it would be good if he included the caveats a little more explicitly (e.g., up to 40 miles added range on long sunny days, but beneficial trickle charging year round).
Thank you Tom! I love that last line. "Beautiful trickle charge year round*. That's awesome!!
I am in 100% agreement with you on this. I wish they never even started saying 1,000 miles, at least without saying that it is a possibility they are shooting for. Yes either one of your suggestions is good. Tout the entry level and since we don't have firm pricing, I would add they say " for under $30,000". Or just quote the details of the launch edition. I have said this all along. The Aptera is fantastic! When you add a bunch of nonsense that has not even been designed or proven, it loses credibility.
Wow! I'm so glad we got that comment so we can have this discussion. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Agree!
Thank you!
I agree, advertise the launch edition only!
Thank you!
The number 1 most important thing Aptera is selling is efficiency. Getting the most value for your money, energy in - miles out. Number 2 is being able to fix and maintain it without spending a fortune (for example Tesla). People are having a hard time as of late and value for money is getting extremely important.
Yes! We agree!
"The number 1 most important thing Aptera is selling is efficiency.": First, I've read the launch edition would be 820 kg. Later, I've read it would be close to 1000 kg. That's sad... Still, way better than most other EV's.
I fully expect That in Northern Alberta in the summer we will have days of more than 40 miles of solar. I understand that in the winter we will get less. I can’t wait to see what an average year looks like. I am imagining an additional 1000 Watts of solar on the side as I do drive quite a bit.
Sounds good!!
I am not a marketing person but every company does this. Give the best of all stats, starting price, best optioned out features. I don’t have an opinion about this myself other than to say that Aptera is merely following standard practices of marketing and advertising.
I think you are right
"...Aptera is merely following standard practices of marketing and advertising.": That 'everybody' does it, doesn't make it right. First of all, I don't like the 'standard practices of marketing and advertising' in general (which often includes lying). Aptera could emphasize something like 'On average, you will get 20 km free a day. But on sunny days you might get 60 km free a day.'. Also... on hot days, when it charges better: you would want to use the AC, which might cost 33% of the free milage? (So then it will reduce to 40 km?) I can't afford a new car, but if I could, I still would buy an Aptera. Of course I would know that I would have to plug it in regularly.
@@mpmpm "I still would buy an Aptera. Of course I would know that I would have to plug it in regularly."
100% this. But in my humble opinion they make it sound like most people won't have to plug it in regularly. For those of us in the know its not a big deal. But for the rest?...
@mpmpm I agree with you that I don’t like being lied to but unfortunately it seems like the purpose of human existence is to do anything you can to attract attention and this needs to be done with sound bites because people don’t want to invest much of their time initially to decide if they are interested. Everything seems to work on this model. Look at social media for example. Titles are all about “click bait” it seems. I personally don’t like it myself. You see stuff like “why Bitcoin crashed in the last 24 hours” to find out its price declined 2% which I would hardly call a crash. But it’s about getting your name/product/idea out there and attracting attention.
said: "Aptera is merely following standard practices of marketing and advertising."
My response: But Aptera is supposed to be better than that right?
I think Aptera has mentioned many times that it's UP TO 40, along with a solar calculator by region. I don't think they're overpromising.
Thank you!
Body composition 😮
🤔
talking about the LE is probably the best bet, as that is what is going to be coming (first) and what looks to be a quarter of the preorder's right now.
the 40 miles a day needs to be spelled out as on optimistic days and the annual average seems to be 30/day in sunny climates.
notably there is a lack of communication that the aptera can be charged like a normal EV from AC and DCFC, and i have to communicate this fact a lot for people that ask what if i drive more than 40 miles a day or more than the 400 mile range.
Good points! The charging options are crucial! I know mine will be plugged in here in Michigan often.
Transparency in marketing would be a huge improvement. I feel like it is one of those ethical things that should coincide with the transparency and right to repair that aptera is great for and every time the 40 miles, sparting price or 1000 miles are stated without more context i really feel it is disingenuous. Words like starting at or up to absolutely should be included at a minimum.
Thank you. Great point
IMHO
Focus on the 40 kW specs “ as these Full Solar (FS)reservations are validated…”
-Accelerator/LE AWD
-Paradigm ( FWD )
BONUS : FS… Up to 40 miles solar trickle charged per day
Belly cooling will come when it comes in the roll outs
List the other ranges. There could be footnotes for details “ TBC”. Tentative specs can be interesting to preview
Many other vehicles ICE/EV have different variations with range difference focusing on some top model specs
And Thank You Aptera for designing this autocycle more as a car, crash testing etc…
Hey Chad,
What is the “ Home” county (?) on your shirt?
Great points! We know some of our audience have preordered different specs than LE, so definitely don't want to completely bury upcoming options. Home county is Kent. 😃
And your audience appreciates you both!
Kent! Ireland… The global company I retired from has an amazing plant in beautiful in Innashannon, Ireland which I supported over the decades. Great memories! Fish & Chips in newspaper with a 🍺 in Kinsale Ireland.
We had some Pharma systems “from Kent” in our PR operations
Aptera could easily include the expected amoun 2:39 t of charge for a given amount of solar incidence. That way one could make a decision based on their location.
I think they have a map on the website where you can calculate the solar but of course we will know more after testing. Thank you for the comment!!!
I have few complaints about their marketing strategy overall. I am a bit worried about the advertised prices. The rumor is that there will be price increases but no one has really said how much prices will go up. Steve and Chris are still quoting the prices from 2019. For me, if the prices go up by, say 10%, it's not a deal breaker but 25 - 30% would be. We all know how much prices went up for everyday things in the last few years.
I also worry about that. EV makers seem to suggest a reasonable price then launch at 2x or more. The Ford F150 Lightning for example. I know Aptera is trying to keep the price close.. hopefully they can
Thank you for the comment!
I fully expect 40 miles per day but much less other days. I am an accelerator with an expectation of getting mine sometime in the 1st half of 2025. I hope it ships with ADAS as I selected that but installing it after the fact is acceptable.
Sweet!
"ADAS": it might be 'fun' to see ADAS at work. But I doubt it will be so mature enough that I would want a car to drive itself within the next 20 years. When communication speeds will increase (especially less lag), I see a future in which rich people without a drivers license will let their car drive by a people in some remote center. Before cars will really be allowed to drive themselves without the need of an occupant with a drivers license.
@@mpmpm right. Totally agree. ADAS however is simply assisted driving. Lane keep, adaptive speed control and things like that.
I would not use it as a complete auto driving solution, simply a very advanced driver assist where I will still need to pay attention, just not have to use the accelerator or brake pedals often but paying attention all the same.
@@robinpettit7827 same here.
I feel like I've seen and heard most of the aptera team being realistic about solar charging, specifically mentioning Seattle and Boston. I'm in Seattle. I think most of my charging is going to be through the 110 plug right by my carport. .. but what I'm super curious about is June/July in Seattle, when there's 16 hours of sun .. could I get 50 miles? .. maybe more?
Can't wait to see what you get on those long days!!
On an exceptionally clear and cool day in June/July in Seattle I'd bet you might get maybe 45 miles. Average for the days in those months might be 35 miles at best.
I think thst they need st lrast one "proof point". See some real world range and solar charging numbers on a 400 mile range PI model would be starting poiny.
I hope we get that soon!
The way I look at it is anyone putting a deposit now at this point will be +47,000 in line. They should be producing the 1,000 mile range by then.
That's a great point!
Yeah, I’m a little uncomfortable when they tell the press “1000 miles.” It gets people to stop for second and take notice, so I get that, but I feel like the launch edition plus up to 40 miles “depending on the weather” might be the way to go…
But we the fans know what to expect, so anyone willing to look into it and use some common sense can come to the right conclusion. Personally I’ll be happy with 20-25 miles of range in the summer (without parking to avoid trees etc), and just give me like 5-10 in the winter… heck, if I can even just avoid “vampire drain” in the winter that’ll help.
Great point!
I am one that makes things not one that sells things. I could not sell water in a dessert. That being said, I would drive the 1000 ml till it stop and then would call it the 927 or something like that. The solar I would call the tank topper. Or the free fuel added by the sun. And I probably would not sell many. So I’ll leave the selling to the salesman. I would like them to push the 250 ml being the most efficient and green. And that is why I am not a salesman.
Love it!! Great comment!!
I do think Aptera should be more precise about the specifications. Clearly state that the Aptera starts at $25k for 250 miles of range, with the Launch Edition being $33k and the 1000 mile option closer to $50k. But it depends on who is speaking. Different spokespersons have different marketing skills. And especially with the news programs they've been doing lately, the interviewers don't want to listen to a long explanation, and will interrupt you if tou talk too long. So you've got to be precise and to the point.
It's like the usual with news. Speak quickly, hit the talking points, and don't worry about accuracy. It's not like everything on the news isn't propaganda anyway. Especially local news.
It all comes down to math. 11,000 miles a year is around 30 miles a day. So already that means it's not a constant 40 miles a day. People know how solar panels work, and know the energy gained varies over the year. I appreciate that Aptera thinks we're smart enough to figure this out for ourselves. 😂
The news is about as accurate as the weather. 😜
There is a danger of losing trust by not painting the whole picture. We would be grateful for a more complete explanation on what to expect in cold climates from solar. It would be good for Aptera to be a bit more informative on this.
Thank you. Great point!
I agree they Aptera should be transparent and start with all the details of the LE. Next, should be the 250 all the way up to the 1000 mile version including their costs and expected time of production. All the while noting that solar range is dependent on amount of sun and range will be dependent on many factors. I think transparency in commercials will be very valuable once production begins.
Thank you! Great points!
The operative words, "up to" seem to have been misunderstood. It has always been made clear that will be the results in Southern California.
True
They say up to 40 miles ,people have to learn the American language
They do say up to 40 miles solar. I think maybe it's the 1000 mile battery range that isn't going to be on LE that might trip some people up. Of course, they choose their battery when they order, but they might not realize that will delay their delivery.
Marketing is a difficult discipline. On the one hand, you have to make sure that you stand out from the general background noise of the industry - e.g. with a range of 1600 km - but on the other hand, you must not be exposed as a deceptive package later on.
In a TV interview with very limited time, it is certainly good to mention the best features of a product in order to arouse interest. However, there is a difference between only mentioning the 1,600 km range and stating "up to 1,600 km range".
With the ranges of current electric vehicles, even a range of 400 miles / 640 kilometres is competitive. This will still be the case in 2025. With 600 miles / 965 kilometres, Aptera will probably still outperform all electric vehicles in 2026.
Even if only 50% of the maximum solar charging power is achieved on 50% of the days of the year on average, (365 days * 0.5) * (65 km/day * 0.5) = 5,931 kilometres/year or 16.25 km/day are available free of charge. And this is probably a very conservative calculation.
In the long term, I think it is more important to explain what the total cost of ownership is compared to other cars (electric or not). Range per charge is certainly secondary.
Thank you for the detailed comment! Cost of ownership will definitely make the Aptera stand out!
The 1000-mile range is eye/ear-catching. But just marketing speculation.
I get where it comes from. The Aptera is 3X more efficient than the most efficient Tesla. Thus it could go 3X farther. 335 -> 1000
But that assumes the assumes the same capacity battery pack (100 kWh).
Even if one could stuff a 100 kWh battery pack in the Aptera, the energy density of currently viable chemistries would mean the Aptera's weight would drastically change, and thus Aptera's efficiency would significantly change.
Further, the payload of Aptera is currently 400 lbs. CA says their working to get it up as much as 600 lbs. How much payload do we expect from Aptera if it adds another 600 lbs of battery and beefs up the chassis and suspension to carry it?
1000-mile Aptera makes no sense today. It could make sense with a new battery chemistry of the future.
Wow. Excellent reasoning! Thank you!!
Unfortunately, it has become an industry standard to state the top capabilities of ALL models together in promotional ads. As if one vehicle has all of those capabilities at the same time. So you will hear the lowest base price preceding the best range numbers, along with the quickest performance numbers. In reality, the cheapest model is always the slowest and has the shortest range. And more range and more performance always costs more. Plus driving quickly reduces range, so you are not getting anywhere near the maximum range if you drive quickly. In addition, range, efficiency, acceleration, and final pricing has not been confirmed. Waiting on PI model testing. Aptera has been pretty clear that the 40 miles of solar range is the best possible, under perfect circumstances. Your mileage may vary...
You are spot on Dean!! Thank you again!
Short answer:
Aptera will not live up to the hype. Is hype their problem? No, and that's the crux of it.
Long version:
In my experiences, hype is an invention by people and not companies. If no one cared about a product, there is no hype, no one is talking about it. People hype, remember that, it's an emotional response.
It's the hope and excitement that people feel when they hear or read about an upcoming product that makes them hype. Sometimes people get too excited and invent goals that have nothing to do with the product, and only spread those preferences and wishes to others instead of the facts, Then others get a wrong or exaggerated idea of the upcoming product. In the end, if the company doesn't fill the build-up, people blame the company.
Hype will **never** be the company's fault, not any company. People need to take responsibility for their assumptions when they exaggerate or hope for too much, that's the problem with hype.
Aptera is only responsible for what they indicate on their own website or their youtube channel, and only the recent updates or publications including interviews. We can't hold them on long-passed goals or specs, that doesn't matter anymore. But people are stupid and act like the old stuff is relevant or a promise broken and seeking retribution for what? Attention seeking.
My opinion on Aptera:
A car with enough solar charging and aerodynamics to give me free miles if it just sits in the sun, I don't need a cheer squad telling me anything else. I'll wait as long as it takes so I can save up and have a tiny auto loan. That's all I care about right now.
Great comment! Thank you
People have to learn to read,when someone says UP TO means maximum
Right
Just make something, any version before I die of old age. That's my two cents.
🤣 we will take ANYTHING!! Same here!