Pilgrimage or Tourism at the Baha'i Gardens?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ธ.ค. 2018
- Akko and Haifa are the two holiest cities for the Baha'i Faith. The Baha'i Gardens, located on the slopes of Mt. Carmel in Haifa, Israel, have become a major tourist site in recent years. Baha'i pilgrims also travel there to pray and meditate at the Shrine of the Báb located in the gardens. Why are these two cities holy to the Baha'is? What is the significance of pilgrimage here?
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This comment section is proof that discussions about religion can be civil and respectful. It makes me happy.
Fun fact: The Shrine of the Bab was built by a Canadian Bahai architect who also built the Saskatchewan Legislative Building.
MJR Schneider That IS a fun fact!
Another Fun fact : The Baha'is aspires to rule the world, they are working to establish a Baha'i inspired NWO.
@@NaserEmtesali That sounds amazing
@@brandon9172 Yep. It is a NWO cult.
The Sask Legislature is a fine example of the Beaux-arts school of public architecture. The woodwork in the legislative chamber is particularly good, even in a country where that art excels. The interior is unusually light and airy for a building of that period. I can see similar elements in photos of the Shrine of the Bab. The architect, William Sutherland Maxwell, a Montrealer, was not just a Baha'i, but one of the fifty honoured "Hands of the Cause".
I recently visited Haifa and Akko as a Baha'i pilgrim. It was a beautiful and humbling experience, coming home to my true self! It was a time for praying and meditating, and visiting the places where Baha'u'llah has been. I also love the scent of roses in the Shrine of the Bab and Baha'u'llah. Thanks for this video, you are well informed and you did your research!
Thank you for your thoughtful commentary on the Baha'i Faith. I am a Baha'i and my husband and I went on Pilgrimage in 2005. Pilgrimage is a 9 day experience. We are divided into groups and our Pilgrim Guide, a Baha'i, takes us around to the Holy sites in Acca and Haifa. We are also given plenty of time to pray and visit the Shrines and other sites on our own. It is a deeply personal experience which is different for everyone. Pilgrims have the opportunity to meet with the members of the Universal House of Justice, the elected governing body of the Baha'i Faith. Pilgrims also associate with each other in the Pilgrim House for meals and to share experiences with Baha'is from all parts of the world. Baha'is are not supposed to proselytize; however we do love to talk about and "teach" our Faith when there is interest. For this reason, out of respect for the Government of Israel, except for the few Baha'is living and working on Mount Carmel, Akka, and a representative Office in Jerusalem, Baha'is are not allowed to live in Israel or even to visit without permission from the House of Justice. The "Baha'i Gardens" or "Persian Gardens" have received the Beautification of Israel award twice. Wishing you peace and love.
I have never heard of the Bahá'í Faith before. Thank you for the exposure to something completely new to me.
@Antoni Ruiz Waco Texas does not actually have a Baha'i Temple Antoni. Perhaps it's another religious entity.
My husband, who is a member of the Bahai Faith, and I went on pilgrimage to Haifa & Akka in 2019. I am still a practicing Catholic Christian but appreciate and love the Bahai faith and writings. The experience on the long (9 day) pilgrimage was very enriching, peaceful and meditative. The trip was curated in the sense we went to 2-3 sites each day that were connected or associated. (Early arrival of Baháʼu'lláh, exile, life of Abdu'l-Bahá, etc) We were put into tour groups of about 15-20 people by language to allow a tour in a language we understood. Our Bahai volunteer guide would tell us some of the history of the site, certain writings or prayers that may have started there. Along the way we were encouraged to sit and pray or meditate, given 30-45 minutes in each of the important rooms or locations just to be, no other things to read or accomplish. There was some group readings and prayers mixed in. It was a very unique way to experience the sites where holy people walked and lived.
An answer to a question you didn't specifically ask: The reason there is not a large permanent Bahai community in Israel is because when the state of Israel agreed to allow Bahais access to their various holy sites where Baháʼu'lláh and his son/successor Abdu'l-Bahá lived & taught, part of the agreement stated the Bahais could not prosthelytize in Israel. Probably also why your tour guide was a Jewish Israeli.
Wow! What a fantastic video you put together, well done! Very informative and the final question comparing pilgrimage to tourism is a stimulating one. I am a Baha’i from Phoenix, Arizona and I have been on pilgrimage to Haifa and Akka twice.
The first time I went with my family when I was 19 years old and I had quite an interesting experience connected to your question. In fact, in our pilgrim orientation our pilgrim guide made a point to emphasize that we approach our experience with the mindset of a pilgrim, rather than a tourist. Up until that point I had been most excited about all of the great pictures I would get of all of the beautiful gardens and monuments with my new digital camera.
Later that day walking around I was taking pictures with my digital camera, when my camera slipped out of my hand and landed lens first on the hard concrete. The camera was damaged beyond repair, and I would not be able to take pictures for the remainder of the pilgrimage. I couldn’t help but think this may be a divine act to teach me an important lesson. Whether or not it was divine intervention or mere coincidence, it helped me to get into the mindset of a pilgrim where I was more present mentally and spiritually with each place we visited the remainder of the pilgrimage.
I had the bounty of returning for another pilgrimage about three years ago, this time around I was a much more mature and devout Baha’i. And all I can say was that it was one of the most spiritually edifying experiences I’ve ever had. My wife and I prayed fervently to have our first child, which we later conceived just a few months later. Interestingly, I also had some mental tests going on throughout the pilgrimage that really helped to humble my soul and pray deeply to become a better human being.
Additionally, the bounty of being able to pray right at the burial site of a Messenger of God is quite a remarkable experience. Also, having a formal program put together that is spiritually reverent, historically educational, and brings together pilgrims from all over the world in unity brought my soul so much joy!
Those are just some thoughts on my mind at the moment about your question, hope they are insightful. Thanks again for putting together this wonderful video and wonderful TH-cam channel!
All the best to you and your endeavors. 🙏🏽
Colby Jeffers Allah’u’Abha Colby:) I am Eman :))))It is really a great video 💫⭐️🌟✨
Oh wow! I cannot wait for my first time to go!! Even if I am 90 when it happens!
Long time subscriber and Bahá’í here. Firstly, thank you for this presentation. Your videos are always enlightening.
I think in every religious group there are members with varying degrees of devotion, including in the Bahá’í Faith. All scriptures teach the sacredness and holiness of pilgrimage. Some adherents I think are casually committed and so the pilgrimage experience will be more material (touristy) than spiritual. Christians for example, given there are over 2 billion, you’re gonna get a heck of a lot of tourists, but of course there are plenty who completely avoid the material attractions and for them is a spiritual devotional experience of Christ and His passion. At the same time, I’m sure there are Bahá’ís who treat Bahá’í pilgrimage as mostly a tourist experience with pretty gardens and buildings, buying souvenir trinkets to bring home. Not saying one is bad or good. But it’s a spectrum. So I won’t say “for Bahá’ís pilgrimage is...” but I can definitely say according to Bahá’í texts..
“Render thanks unto God that thou didst come to the Blessed Spot, didst lay thy head upon the Threshold of the Sacred Shrine, and didst make pilgrimage to the hallowed sanctuary round which circle in adoration the intimates of the spiritual realm. Thou didst gain admittance into the assemblage of the Merciful and didst enjoy communion”
But if you wanna see how Bahá’ís themselves experience it TH-cam search “Pilgrimage: A Sacred Experience”. It’s a video made by the Bahá’í world community.
Indeed, you get from pilgrimage what you put into it! Baha'is receive written materials on the history of the Faith to study in advance; it is definitely not intended to be a "tourist" event and they sometimes are on a 2 or waiting list to be assigned a Pilgrimage date. It is a highly structured 9 days. Also, all Baha'is must seek permission from the House of Justice to enter Israel for any reason as Shoghi Effendi, the Guardian of the Faith, made that agreement with the Israeli government before the Shrine of the Bab was built. Baha'is can explain the faith to others, but no one can "become" an enrolled Baha'i while in Israel.
@@tommiekelly8680 That's true. Baha'is don't convert Israelis. They are clever people.
@@tommiekelly8680
😊😮
I fell upon your channel by accident, and I am staying with you on purpose. Thank you for your informed and measure discussions about religions. At 76 years old, I find it reassuring that you are able to inform, not incite.
I went there as a pilgrim in 2007 CE, no idea what it's like as a tourist, but the pilgrimage was one of the most meaningful, beautiful and wonderful experiences of my life! I hope to go again together with my wife and children once they're old enough to appreciate it more. I don't recall seeing any tour groups, but i might have. Also, pilgrims get exclusive access to the terraced gardens and don't have to move around in a group.
What a lovely presentation. A pilgrimage would, for me, represent a homecoming. As a member of the Baha'i Faith, I am deeply drawn to my dream of a visit to Haifa and Akka. It is the 'home' I've not yet seen. It will be a solace of the deepest order when I do.
Tourism is sight-seeing, with a focus on viewing places of interest, learning some of the history associated with the sights, and education, and perhaps a new interest to learn more is awakened.
Thank you for the excellent overview of the history and world center of the Baha'i Faith. Pilgrimage is a very personal experience and there are no collective rituals to perform. Other than mingling with Baha'is from different countries and cultures it is very different than tourism since each one feels a special connection to the holy sites as a living history of the religion. Knowing that the world administrative center resides at the spiritual center is very special and perhaps unique amongst the world's religions.
4:24 that's a very beautiful building with that garden and view.
It's somewhat classical, romantic, but also has this something of eternal and futuristic.
I'd love to see more on Bahá'í, it's something I've been interested in for a long while.
Check out Baha'i blog. Lots of information in blog form there.
My ex girlfriend is Persian and her and her family were Baha’i I never fully understood the religion but I think this video did a good job explaining it to us. Thank you.
This is an excellent presentation of the brief history of the Baha'i Faith and the holy sites by someone who's actually not Baha'i. Your research and accuracy is commendable. Thank you for presenting in such an honest and relevant style.
Hi Andrew, Excellent video (as always). As someone who has seen a great number of short presentations of the history of the Baha’i Faith, I give you top marks on accuracy. Your observation about the separate experience of pilgrims and tourists is also very astute. Jay D. Gatrell and Noga Collins-Kreiner have offered an analysis of it in their paper “Negotiated space: Tourists, pilgrims, and the Bahá’í terraced gardens in Haifa”. Baha’i pilgrimage is as you surmise quite different from that of a tourist. While some tourists do draw some spiritual experience from their visit, the guides are there primarily to inform. In a Baha’i pilgrimage every planned activity serves the purpose of providing the pilgrim with an experience that is spiritually meaningful and connects them with the history of the Baha’i Faith in a personal way. They also given the opportunity to visit the shrines for prayer and meditation on their own.
The gardens in Haifa are 5 minutes from my house!
There are some descendants of Baha'u'llah living in that area, but they are ex-communicated and shunned by the Baha'is.
I worked at the Baha’i World Center for a year. I really recommend that you do a deep dive into the Baha’i faith. This was really interesting!
First of all, I want to thank you for the beautifully informative video. I am a Baha'i and have been for 4 years. One correction I will make though. While yes, The Bab means "The Gate", I do not believe it is referring to the Gate to the Mahdi, for Baha'is believe the Bab is the Mahdi; from my understanding, The Gate that He is referring to is the Gate to "He Whom God shall make manifest", which was the term used for the promised One after the Bab which Baha'is consider to be Baha'u'llah. Sadly, I have yet to get the chance to go on pilgrimage. However, I have many friends who have, and I can share some highlights of their experiences.
according to them, you get a fully fledged out free tour (you have to pay for a plane ticket and a place to stay, but the tour itself is free). They will pick you up every day from the place you stay at, and will take you to numerous sites. The main ones are: The Shrine of the Bab, the prison of Akka and Baha'u'llah's prison cell, and of course the Shrine of Baha'u'llah. Another destination is the Baha'i Archives, where the majority of scholarly work is done.
Usually Baha'is that are working in the gardens work as security, scholars, or maintenance of some kind.
If you are wondering why there aren't many Baha'is in Israel, it is because Abdul Baha, the son of Baha'u'llah told us not to form communities there (long before Israel was a state). We believe Israel is a place only for pilgramage. As for lack of ritual practice, it is because Baha'is keep ritual to a low, we have only a handful of ritual practices and introducing new ones as dogma is discouraged, one can have personal rituals, but they are not allowed to teach these rituals as being obligatory.
Thank you so much for the video again, I have been a fan of yours for quite some time now and I truly appreciate your work. :)
Babi doctrine evolved, and rather quickly. Sayyed Ali Muhammad first claimed to be "the Bab", i.e. the Gate to the Madhi. Then he claimed to be the Madhi himself. And then he claimed to be Prophet of a new religion, with a new revealed Scripture, the Bayan ("Exposition"). Which is why contemporary followers call themselves "Bayani" and refer to the Bab as "the Primal Point". It is then clear that "the Bab" is an out-dated title from the first stage of Sayyed Ali Muhammad's ministry, which was since picked up and re-interpreted by the Baha'i to create a continuity between him and Baha'u'llah. A continuity which the Bayani (or Babi, or Azali) think is not justified.
Yes my understanding is that The Bab initially formally disclosed himself as the Gate to the 12th Imam and Mahdi, due mainly to the condition of the people at the time, as it was they would be surprised that a merchant not a scholar of Islam would be the return. The Bab’s writings hinted at His station from the early stages, but progressively changed. He was very explicit in the end, and His role was to try to disassemble the misinterpretation of Gods religion and prepare people for ‘He whom God shall make manifest’, if I understand correctly, He was the close of the previous dispensation (day of judgement) and also the Gate to the New Day.
I am a Baha'i and I went on pilgrimage in December. The experience is vastly different from that of a tourist, but most of that is attributed to the goals of a pilgrim vs that of a tourist. As s pilgrim we become more intimately acquainted with the persons of the Bab and Bahaullah who are both buried there, and in Bahaullah's case spent the last 40 years of his life there. It is for Baha'is the most sacred spot on earth, and pilgrimage a time to reflect on our lives. Tourists most likely go for a different experience.
I recently came back home after years of living abroad and going thru my stuff I found a book gifted to me so many years ago by an ex boyfriend of mine. The book is "the hidden words" and I never read it before but started yesterday and I thought maybe you had a video about it!!! I've been following your channel for a long time! Thank you for such interesting content.
Welcome to my city Haifa, I hope you had great time here!
It was my favorite city during my time there!
@@ReligionForBreakfast I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Thank you for making a video about the Baha'i Faith. it warms my heart to come across this as I was learning about the Hajj in one of yhour other videos. I have been a Baha'i my entire life and have made one 9-day pilgrimage to the Holy Land in Israel, nearly 20 years ago. I cannot express to you how powerful an exprience it was... my heart and soul felt like it had returned home and there was nothing but pure love in that place. It was a very moving experience and I learnt a lot, not just about the Faith itself, but also about my own spiritual journey. I received a great numnber of insights there and being able to enter the sacred shrines, home of the Holy family and the archives building on Mount Carmel, in which one can see relics from the time of The Bab and Baha'u'llah, was a most magical experience.
I can remember everything about it... the scent of the roses at the threshhold of Baha'u'llah's resting place, the only photograph of His blessed face, the broken roof tiles that form the pathways at the gardens of Bahji, the smiles from the Baha'i youth that volunteered at the pilgrim centre or tended to the gardens every day...it was unlike anything I've ever experienced anywhere on earth, and I've seen a lot of this great planet of ours. Definitely hard to top!
Though, I suspect the experience is as unique as the individual who makes the pilgrimage itself. All the best with your channel, it's refreshing to come across something that is sharing such meaningful content.
I also visited the World Center as a tourist and met some Baha'i there. They were from all over the world (Africa, East Asia, Europe) and had come as volunteers to tend the gardens and upkeep the center. They told me it's an act of devotion that a lot of Baha'i aspire to perform. I found them to be very happy with their work and very kind to explain all this to me. And of course the gardens were incredible!
Interesting discussion on the Baha'i faith and on the theme of pilgrimages in general. I learned many new things tonight, thank you.
Your question about the difference between tourism and pilgrimage brings to mind the opening lines of Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales", which basically state that the reason everyone goes on pilgrimage in the spring is because they feel like traveling after being cooped up all winter.
Hve you ever been to the Baha'i Temple in Wilmette IL? These folks sure know how to build an impressive structure!
I would totally listen to your podcast if you had one.
You may have more Baha'ì viewers than you realize ;)
Keep up the great work -- whatever you choose to focus on.👍
There are a lot of Baha'is here. Yes.
"Universal House of Justice" is such a badass name. Sounds like the headquarters for the Universe's greatest Heroes.
Baha'is believe it is the foundation of "The Kindom of God on Earth", as prophesied by Isaiah, 9:6-7, "upon the throne of David". The Bab and Baha'u'llah descended from David.... as well as Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha Krishna, from the "three wives" of Abraham. Thus, all religions are one as there only one God and one line of descendants. Jesus said, "I come not to bring peace, but a sword." Baha'u'llah is the "Prince of Peace" (actually born a prince) promised by Isaiah, and the Seat of the Universal House of Justice is the new "Throne of David", or the "New Jerusalem". And btw, there were 20,000 martyrs of The Bab (speaking of heroes)......AND they had to bring in a new regiment of 750 riflemen to shoot The Bab! The first 750 missed! And the sun was dark for three days! Check it out...... See www.bahai.org/library
The strikes me as similar to how Salt Lake City's Temple Square is run... Not the aggressive evangelism that Baha'is don't seem to do, but the very formal distinction between tourist and members access.
The times pilgrams are allowed in the shrines are seperate because it's such an intene time for prayer and reflection.
Thank you for writing this.
When I went to Chicago I visited the Baha’i House of Worship in Wilmette. It’s a surprisingly opulent building but there weren’t many people there.
I live right around there and my friends and I always just walk around there because its so beautiful and quiet.
I am German, but was an exchange student in the US for a year. I lived two miles from that temple.
@@Hans-jc1ju For real? Did you go to ETHS or North Western?
@@Hans-jc1ju Also if you're from Heilbronn we have a plaque of your town crest in our german class.
Liz Rathburn I am from nowhere near that. I am from a town named Kulmbach, which had a program with a former New Trier High School student (like from the 30s) that sent two and later one student to the US every year
I went on Pilgrimage 13 yrs ago. Bahá'í Pilgrimage lasts 9 days and consists in guided tours with detailed histories and lectures on the various sites (including all of the administrative buildings along the Arc). There are also several buildings where the Holy Family lived, including the prison fortress in Acre. During the evenings, there are also lectures and updates regarding aspects of the Faith and Bahá'í news from around the world. Pilgrims also meet the members of The Universal House of Justice (the supreme governing body for the Bahá'í World Community). Tourists probably get a "Reader's Digest" version and only visit two or three sites. In addition to this there is the opportunity to meet Bahá'ís from all over the world. Pilgrimage to the Bahá'í sites is completely devoid of any commercial atmosphere. My wife and I had a chance to see some of the other Holy places in Israel and I was saddened at how commercial and unkept everything was. I envisioned Christ overturning the tables all over again.
I was one of the Baha'i staff that worked at the Baha'i World Centre and my time for pilgrimage came up while I was there. It was a lovely experience. I'm happy to answer any questions regarding either experience.
your "time for pilgrimage"? do baha'is have a specific time that each follower is supposed to make pilgrimage? is it based on age? a lottery system? Randon sellection? is there a "window" of time to do it in or is the dates asdigned (by whom? basrd on what criteria")? what if you cannot do it when "your time" comes?
@@lshulman58 Bahai pilgrimage is comprised of between 9 to 11 days (the 2 extra ones are if you go during a specific holy day season which has days off). There's a schedule where they take you in buses to a few different places that are not open to the public. These are the home or the prison cell of Bahá'u'lláh or a small archives building that's like a museum of relics of the faith where you get to see the actual photograph of Bahá'u'lláh and some paintings of The Bab, etc. The experience is very special, structured and organized. There are limits as to how many people can attend all these small buildings in a give pilgrimage season and this is because the institutions just don't have the capacity to host so many people and be able to sustain the buildings and what not. The whole thing is free of charge so, as you can imagine, one has to sign up to be able to go. The video shows the website where we can apply. It used to take about 5 years to be scheduled but the last time I applied to go back, they gave me dates within a year, if I recall correctly. The whole thing is amazing. I got to go as an official pilgrim with a lower wait time because I was a staff member the first time around. They would basically stick us in when there were no shows so we had a very short heads up, which we were all ok with. I also translated as a volunteer for pilgrims so I got to go on several extra visits to these holy places. In addition, as staff members, we all got one holy place visit per year as an extra visit plus during specific holy days we got to go to them again. As for entering the shrines of The Bab and Bahá'u'lláh, we could practically go inside at any time during the day for as long as we wanted. I don't think tourists went inside to pray. The inside is just a simple room with a bunch of carpets to sit on and a ton of flowers. You sat on the carpet and prayed as long as you wanted. I didn't go enough despite living a block away and regret it a bit. Oh. And I also got to go to a bunch of holy places because I either had friends who worked in maintenance or I ended up going to fix stuff from time to time. I was able to go to places that very few people have been able to go but they weren't all that special to the average person.
Pilgrimage to Haifa and Acre is a Lesser Pilgrimage. Obligatory pilgrimage sites are located in Iran and Iraq.
I recently found your channel, and it’s so dang interesting. Your videos are awesome, well researched, and well edited. Looking forward to more excellent content!
As a pilgrim, when I was there- I feel connected & spiritually uplifted… with such a great atmosphere of total silence and reverence where one can focus fully on prayers and not other things… I came back home as a changed man altogether and gotten into more service towards mankind….
I know a guy who’s family and him follow the Baha’i religion. He’s really chilled to be honest
It's definitely a different experience for tourist that it is for a pilgrim. I traveled with my brother, who is a devout Catholic, to what is purported to be the home and final resting place of the "virgin" Mary mother of Jesus on Mt. Koressos near Ephesus. For me, it was an interesting curiosity. I could appreciate the gorgeous gardens and beautiful chapel. For my brother, it was a moving religious experience, and he was moved to tears.
I love these videos man keep doing this.
It seems like a natural consequence that tourism would pop up wherever pilgrimage was prominent. But, as a Catholic, I'm a little saddened by it, and wish it wasn't so blown up. I'm sort of Franciscan in my thinking, in the the sense that, I want to keep my buying/selling verrrry~ far from my spirituality. I can't blame people when it happens - it's logical that the two would intersect. I just wish there were more of a way to separate them.
Matthew Bateman Whenever I see this buying/selling in a place of faith I remember Jesus’s response to the money changes in the temple. It makes me sad that humans will make money anyway they can, especially off faith... mind you thats what tithes and everything else is too. These days I have a great mistrust of organised religion.
@@naomiquinlivan905 That is why Baha'is do not accept money at all at their Holy Places (even prominent temples like in Wilmette, Illinois or the Lotus Temple near New Dehli. Baha'i teachings have many more Christian elements.
Scott Hakala I visited the Lotus temple when I was in India, it was the most peaceful place I felt on the whole trip.
@@scotthakala9783 Baha'is do not accept contributions from non-Baha'is unless it's a garage sale where "Baha'i" is not mentioned and those individual Baha'is contribute the money they earn from it. Only enrolled Baha'is can contribute to Baha'i Funds of any kind! Or, of course, Baha'i books are sold to the public, but that's not for the purpose of "raising contributions".
The difference between a tourist visit to the Gardens and a Pilgrimage is the time and access pilgrims have to the Shrines. I don't think tourists are allowed in the Shrine of the Bab. Not missing much. There are no golden alters or stuff. Just carpets and people praying and meditating. The decoration is on the outside of the building. There are nine rooms in the building (three by three grid). The Bab is buried under the very middle room and the rooms on either side of it are for people to pray in. Baha'u'llah's son, Abdu'l-Baha is buried under another middle room and people can pray in the two rooms on each side. The last three rooms are storage.
A Baha'i Pilgrimage can be both sacred and tourism. It is a scheduled, nine-day event. A major part of the day is scheduled for tours and lectures, but there is still time for people to be tourists. Baha'is have to make their own reservations for housing, which benefits the local economy and a limited amount of days before or after the official pilgrimage are allowed for tourism in Israel. The limit on the number if Baha'is in Israel goes back to the British Mandate. I don't remember why the British wanted to limit the number of Baha'is, but it was continued after Israel became a state.
Tourists can and do visit bith the shrines of the Bab and Bahaullah
The limit has nothing to do with the British Mandate. The prophet founder, Bahá'u'lláh asked that there be no Bahá'í community in Palestine, including what is now Israel. Bahá'is do not teach the faith in Israel.
update: the 3 rooms are now for prayers -- storage moved into the mountain !!
It would be really awesome if you did more videos on the Bahai Faith. Reviews and commentary on the Faith would be great.
I agree.
- Tourism=secular/profane (as in Durkheim); enjoying the sights, more learning of the worldly things, sense of cosmopolitan community, being in awe.
- Pilgrimage=religious/sacred; seeking a spiritual connection, salvation, deeper learning and understanding, sense of one's religious community, being in awe (in a spiritual sense).
- In practical reality, however, I think they're often mixed - right? If only because the holy places, shrines, icons, etc. are often made to look nice - think of the blue mosque, cathedrals, temples, etc. embellished crosses, fancy clothes for important clergy-people. Lots of people going in a pilgrimage also take the opportunity to enjoy the buildings and local cuisine. While that might not be at the same planck-time moment, it's at least during the same day or visit/trip.
Nothing is at the same Planck-time moment. That would be impossible.
I have had the bounty of going to the Baha'i World Center in Israel on short visits in three capacities -- 1. on full 9 day pilgrimage, 2. providing health support for someone invited to consult with the Universal House of Justice on a technical subject, 3. visiting one of our children who was serving there. Each of those versions of a short visit to the Shrines is a little different.
1. Baha'is are encouraged to keep the pilgrimage about the spiritual journey that happens with the physical proximity to these holy places. We are asked to arrive just before our scheduled pilgrimage begins (that is, do not make it part of a larger travel extravagancy) and leave the country as soon as possible after its conclusion. Each of the nine days have scheduled portions and some free time. There are no secret places or rituals going on. Places not available to tourists have more to do with the amount of time it would take to give a place proper context than anything else. The pilgrimage can be very different for each individual. Some people feel it as "heaven" or so they might say. For others, it challenges their expectations, their presumptions, even their own identity. It's often a mixture. Almost everyone admits to a moment of being stripped bare of the pretentions of this mortal life. Before I went, a wise older woman wished me "a MEANINGFUL pilgrimage." I was perplexed. There had been many moments of frustration over expectations I didn't even know I had been harboring. I was there with three children and a chronically ill husband. Some days were grueling! On other days, the smallest detail would then bring me such joy and insight! It was strange. I asked my friend why she had wished a meaningful pilgrimage for me. She said, "Those who say they had 'a wonderful pilgrimage' have the feelings fade quickly once they return. Those who are challenged by it, find meaning in it, have much long-lasting effects ... sometimes for the rest of their lives." I fell into the latter category ... as did my whole family.
2. Those in consultation with the world governing offices there are asked to arrive 3 days for a short, informal pilgrimage in preparation for their meetings. The folks there trusted us with keys and gave us maps. We were somewhat on our own. This sort of 3-day informal pilgrimage is available to Baha'is in general although it without the formal talks, knowledgeable guide, and some of the places (unless by chance there is someone working there already). This spiritual calibration (my term for it) proves itself in meaningful, tactful, and visionary consultation, so I am told. Since I was fairly free once my companion started his scheduled meetings, I was able to revisit places and could play more of a tourist had I wished it. On one occasion, I met a woman brand new to the Baha'i Faith on a 3-day pilgrimage -- which is a beautiful, convoluted tale that is hers alone to tell) and was able to serve as her guide as I already knew where the keys and information were and had the time to do so! People on these 3-day pilgrimages are asked to be particularly respectful of the tourist hours. (I happen to like to sing prayers and meditations aloud as I wandered about the gardens but was gently admonished not to give tourists impression that it was some kind of ritual I was performing. ;-) I could sing in the gardens to my heart's content after hours open to the general public had finished.)
3. When visiting a person serving that the Baha'i World Center, there is more opportunity to be a general tourist in Israel with some suggested restrictions and the personality of your host of course. There can be pilgrimage-type opportunities for prayer and contemplation of course as well. In the case of our visit, I took it as a bit of an opportunity to compare holy places of other earlier religions -- purile, I know! Personally, the visit to Mount Tabor -- the presumed site of the Transfiguration of Christ -- was the closest to the Baha'i pilgrimage vibe because of its remoteness from vendors, its consistent and scripturally supported accuracy of location, and the understanding required of visitors to appreciate its import to the Christian message. The Via Dolorosa -- which I was excited to experience since I was raised as a Roman Catholic and had loved the Stations of the Cross, the Church's way to bring a pilgrimage to every adherent regardless of affordability -- was in comparison of a cacophony of vendors, tourists, and local people living their daily lives. The guiding plaques along the way were worded truthfully enough to admit that most of these "stations" were guesses at best. It's signage near Golgatha of "Protestants this way" and "Orthodox that way" was disturbing to say the least. The Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem as well and the surrounding environs were a remarkable experience. Beit She'an -- an archaeological site that considers layers upon layers of human civilization (Egyptian outpost, Hellenistic city, Roman city, Byzantine city, a Muslim/Christian villages, and finally the modern Jewish town) brought home to me the truth of the Oneness of Humanity -- a pivot round which all Baha'i Teachings revolve -- like no other place on earth.
I hope this missive offers the kind of commentary Dr. Henry requested at the end of this well-organized and thoughtfully presented video.
🥳👍🏽
Difference between tourism and pilgrimage? Very simply, it is tourism when non-followers of a faith visit a site simply out of curiosity or for educational purposes. It is pilgrimage when followers of the religion visit for religious reasons - to honor, respect, remember people, places events, that are important to their faith, perhaps perform formal rituals (which non-followers would not do) or seek a spiritual experience from proximity to such places.
As to the contrast between Baha'i vs. Christian pilgrimage sites, since there are so many more Christians than Baha'is, it is no wonder to see so many more pilgrims mixing with tourists at Christian sites than at Baha'i sites.
But then you have overlapping motives - like visiting the birthplace, the grave, or other important places of your favourite historical figure. Going to Stratford to visit Shakespeare's house because you adore his works and want to see where he came from, esp. when coupled with a tour of other places of his life. Or Graceland for Elvis fans.
Is that just tourism? I'd say not really any more. Is it pilgrimage? Not yet. But somewhere on the border.
Thank you. Your report on the Faith was very good.
Hello, great channel, excellent content from an honest perspective. Thank you! I am wondering if you could create more videos on the Bab, Baháʼu'lláh, and the Baha'i Faith? There are limited perspectives. I would love to see more, I am thoroughly intrigued by your dedication!
Another awesome video! As always, please make one about Thelema if you can ^w^
I have culled my subscribed list for the New Year. This channel made the cut.
Awesome. Here is to a year full of more videos!
Was just watching another one of your vids when I got this notification lol.
Pilgrimage goes beyond words.The holy threshold is described as: "exalted above the knowledge of the learned and the praise of all that glorify Thee.."
The effects of pilgrimage for a believer grow deeper and more powerful over time.
I travel with a purpose, whether it be historical, sightseeing , an event or the weather. Pilgrimage is a travel with a spiritual purpose.
If I had to guess the difference between a pilgrim and a regular tourist would have to be the emotional and spiritual experience of it all. To a regular tourist it's just visiting an interesting niche in the world, but to a pilgrim whose followed the faith and teachings it must be a profound and possibly indescribable impact. The pilgrim or follower have a stronger connection and understanding of the place they're visiting, they feel a connection, something familiar and intimate even like visiting another home or relative. Overall, to them it's something sacred and hallow.
For the tourist there's probably no such feeling or connection at all, there might be awe or respect, but the whole thing might be foreign and disconnected, that's what I think. Great video as always.
It's interesting that the Bahaia view Buddha and Krishna as messengers of God. Personally as a Hindu, it seems like a stretch to say that these two figures originally had a monotheistic message when both traditions are filled with examples of a multiplicity of deities.
*+bp7891* I was told by other Hindus that they consider themselves monotheists too (not saying this is true for all Hindus, not at all, but I'm wondering what your perspective on this is). They said that the Trimurti is the true or original form, and that: Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva are just the forms or representations, or words/names that humans need to make sense of it more concretely.
A lot of modern Hindus do say that they are monotheistic, and they justify that by either giving the answer you gave or that the different deities are just different aspects of Brahman (the Ultimate Reality), but these are views that gained popularity after the influence of the Protestantism of British colonialism.
Basically, Hindus got harassed by British Protestants for being idol worshiping polytheists, and this led to various reform movements which would interpret Hindu traditions in a way that was more palatable to monotheists, which got internalized by Hindus. And this Protestant lens has also affected how people view Buddhism, Sikhism, Zoroastrianism, etc
My view is that while Hindu traditions do say that the different deities are aspects of Brahman, but all humans, animals, plants, objects, and universes are also aspects of Brahman (panentheism). Plus, traditionally just like how on the mundane level, different people are viewed as "separate" beings, different deities were also viewed as "separate" beings, so I don't really see how this traditional can be seen as monotheism. The Greek Pagans also had a similar view like this along with a few other Pagan traditions, so my personal view is that Hinduism is actually pagan and not monotheist.
This is an interesting point that I’ve heard before, and it makes a lot of sense. I am a Baha’i, which means I’m coming from a perspective to try to understand how the Hindu/Buddhist perspective could be coherent with what Bahá’u’lláh taught (oneness of God & religion).
At the moment (as understanding is always evolving), my current thought is that God is an Unknowable Essence that we use many words to describe. For example, in the Baha’i Writings, God is often referred to as the All-Loving, All-Generous, Almighty, The Omnipotent, All-Glorious, etc, etc. Does this mean that each of these names represents a different God? In my understanding, they are merely attributes of the One Supreme God. I wonder if in the origins of previous religions (such as Hinduism), God was given multiple names to help the people understand the nature of God (which is infinitely complex and beyond human comprehension), which then may have led into a belief that there was more than one God?
Just a humble thought... would love to hear other people’s thoughts on the question 🙏🏽
We believe that each messenger taught what was needed at that time for spiritual growth and maturation.
@@ColbyJeffers "God is often referred to as the All-Loving, All-Generous, Almighty, The Omnipotent, All-Glorious, etc, etc."
I have heard it said that, in Islam, there were 99 names for God with one greatest but secret name. And that Bahai gave the 100th one. But in Hinduism, I've heard is said that there are millions of gods (or indeed one, or a greater one-ness or panentheism, as bp7891 said, and which they mentioned to be not the true history).
I understand and value the attempt to unify, harmonise, and peace-make the diverging human religions, but I'm afraid it's not always going to be that easy.
Interesting video. The Baha'i sound kind of similar to the religious group my friend is a member of called the Ahmadiyya.
Maybe the main difference is whether you are a believer or not. Like, even if you ( theoretically somehow) went to Mecca to observe, it would always be tourism for you because it doesn't hold the same meaning as someone who practices.
Maybe it's the same with Akko and Haifa. Maybe observation of ritual doesn't have to be the key ingredient to a place being a pilgrimage site.
Greetings! I am a Baha'i. The best description of my pilgramage experience is a mystical connection to the Bab, Baha'u'llah, and his son, Abdu'l-Baha! It is a time of transcendence available to anyone that enters the Holy Presence of the Shrines.
Since I am an atheist, I love touring ancient religious sites, respectfully. I enjoy learning about the history of the sites and make sure I do some research on their religions. I find this kind of tourism facinating.
One of the sticking points between Muhammad and the Quraysh, in Mecca, was the economic importance of pilgrims to the Kaaba. The Quraysh did not wish to lose control of this. Yes, pre-Islamic Mecca was a pilgrimage site
You mean, according to the fabricated "tradition". Mecca was a nowhere camel town before the black stone was stolen from Petra and carried there.
Interesting question about the difference between tourism and pilgrimage. I’m not personally religious, but when I visited Stratford upon Avon I had a feeling of significance of the place and felt swept up in the adoration of Shakespeare shared by many people around me in that place. I’m sure that the experiences of people who set out on pilgrimage are different, but this was the first time I thought I felt something comparable.
I think of tourism as visiting a place to see the sites and not really absorb the meaning of it, and pilgrimage is meant to absorb the meaning of a place more than simply see the sites. But the boundaries between the two are porous. A trip for tourism can turn into a pilgrimage if it takes on a deeper meaning in the life of the traveler.
I worked at the Baha'i world centre and have gone on pilgrimage and pilgrimage activities more than once. I met my wife who was also working there. I'm happy to answer any questions.
Just wondering:
Do you plan to make videos discussing the other Jewish sites in the area? The Tomb of the Patriarchs (shared by Islam) and Rachel's Tomb (right outside Bethlehem, so some overlap for the Xtian pilgrimage there, though security reasons lessen the overlap) in the West Bank and Safed/Tzfat and Meron in the Galil/Galilee?
There are also two major Jewish pilgrimage sites outside of the Southwest Levant: Uman in Ukraine, and The Ohel in Queens, NYC. (There are also small sites throughout Eastern Europe, but they are limited to a few Chasidic sects, and those that go often "package" them as one pilgrimage, though this is hard since last February, given some political difficulties with Poland; I would be afraid of being arrested if I tried to enter that country.....though what I did was on US soil, and completely protected under the constitution, so they would probably start an International Incident if they tried to arrest me, if the right people in America and Israel heard of it) I live about an hours drive from the Ohel, and the only reason I have not made a Pilgrimage is because of differences in Halachic interpretation (Jewish ritual opinion) between my tradition and that of the Overseers' sect that would make a Pilgrimage difficult (they have done what they can to be inclusive, but there's a limit in what they can do). The Ohel actually received National attention around the 2016 election, as then-Candidate Trump visited it the day before the election, as Ivanka is a convert to Orthodox Judaism.
Thank you.
The difference is when you visit this holy places as a Baha’i immediately you are walking on the cloud when as a tourist you just walk and see the beautiful garden and building
Interesting!
Hey! I leave on Baha'i pilgrimage in a week for a 9 day period. If you have any specific questions i'd love to answer them when I get back!
Can you create a video about your tour, as well as the Baha'i faith and Baháʼu'lláh in general? Thank you!
Will you ever do comparative religions in more games? Like in Dragon Age or Witcher?
Baha'i faith is interesting hoping someday to visit Hafai garden 😊
Talking about piligrimages have you made a video about virgin of Guadalupe, maybe just a glimpse in the aztec religion but syncretism is very interesting in it, I think
Hi. Can you make episode on Concept of original sin?
Literally first. Thanks for making these vids btw.
Do the Baha'i have their own sacred text or do they follow the koran?
Sidekick Sam I’m not a Baha’i, but I’ve studied it for a while. They have a ton of their own sacred texts that were written by the central figures of the Faith. Bahá’u’lláh and his successor `Abdu’l-Bahá wrote a lot in their lifetimes. Some of the main books Bahá’ís might refer you to are the Kitab-i-Aqdas (“The Most Holy Book”, which is a book of Law), the Kitab-i-Iqan (“The Book of Certitude”, which is a book defending the authenticity of the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh as Manifestations of God), and the Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys. Bahá’u’lláh and `Abdu’l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi (`Abdu’l-Bahá’s successor) wrote a ton of other stuff though. The writings of all three of them are considered authoritative for Bahá’ís today. However, they do recognize the Qur’an, among other scriptures, to be the word of God for another age.
Baha'u'llah wrote many books on religion and religious practice (as mentioned in the excellent video) however most of these are not translated into English and so they aren't available to non-Arabic speakers (like me unfortunately). These writings that are in English are translated into Shakespearean English(by his grandson) which makes them harder to read.
I'm a Baha'i, and yes, we have our own texts, but we also follow the texts of other major religions such as the Koran and the Bible.
@@ytcollin absolutely right. And also the Bab, Baha'u'llah's forerunner. He received Divine Revelation of his own that fills volumes too, but His ministry was cut very short, as divinely orchestrated, so He has nowhere near what Baha'u'llah has brought.
"They must...approach reverently and with a mind purged from preconceived ideas the study of the Qur'án which, apart from the sacred scriptures of the Bábí and Bahá'í Revelations, *constitutes the only Book which can be regarded as an absolutely authenticated Repository of the Word of God.*"
(Baha'i Leader Shoghi Effendi, Advent of Divine Justice, p. 49)
What is your opinion regarding the traditionalist school/ perennialism or
Broadly the work Guénon and Schuon?
Maybe a video on it?
It's amazing that you can make all these trips. If I may ask, how is a struggling grad student able to be a world traveler like this? I'd sure love to do it as well. Any tips? P.S. I think you and James Tabor are the most exciting Scholars in the field.
I'm surprised nobody in the comments mentioned Seals and Croft. They were a soft rock duel, multi-talented and both members of the Baha faith. They wrote several songs about and it influenced many other of their songs, the titles include, Euphrates, Year of Sunday, Hummingbird, East of Ginger Trees. Give a listen
th-cam.com/video/hSUlSbKePe4/w-d-xo.html
Great Bahai Band
@@GrimSingmuf Believe it or not they were also in the group "Ther Champs" remember Tequila?
As the anthropologist couple Victor and Edith Turner famously wrote: "a tourist is half a pilgrim, if a pilgrim is half a tourist." As current tourism studies with the focus on pilgrimage have concluded: a pilgrim is a tourist that visits a holy place as means of 'axis mundi'-a lá Mircea Eliade. The two groups are very similar, as pilgrims behave mainly like tourists in many parts of the journey, were the journey is almost as important as the main attraction (the holy site). To differentiate between the two groups are futile attempts to put one of the two groups on a pedestal that is non-existent. I find this a interesting topic indeed.
For Orthodox Christians there may be an overlap between tourism and pilgrimage, which I see mostly in mode of transportation and accommodation. However at the heart of pilgrimage is the concept of Podvig (spiritual exploit) which is often seen as a kind of hardship endured to attain a spiritual goal.
One might wonder if visiting pilgrimage sites as a tourist might be sacrilege. Then there are sacred sites (like Ka'ba) that prohibit non-followers from visiting.
Question for discussion: what are your thughts about non-followers visiting sacred pilgrimage sites for a religion that is not theirs? Does it interfere with religious practices or otherwise devalue these places as sacred in nature? Or might it serve to inspire more people to follow the faith? Is there more value/more important to maintain sacred value of a site by not allowing tourism or more important to have these places open to all of humanity?
The Baha'i faith is not owned by the Baha'is. The message of Bahaullah was a message of the oneness of the human race and he gave it to everyone. The Baha'is therefore open the gardens, and even the inner shrines, the most sacred spots on earth to tourists. So long as the visit is peaceful the Baha'is don't mind.
I was a baha'i before I became an athiest. Greatest religion ever.
I pray god to guide you to Come back in faith .
Allah'u Abha.
God bless you.
what the relation the Báb and Bob from the church of the sub-genius?
No "relation"; completely unrelated.
Your Generation with such imformation clear never heard of this before thank you May Islam up to date imformation be help to us the seal of Prophets is the leader for all humanity pbhu
Last time l was in Haifa, in August 2020, the Baha'i Shrine was, strangely, closed, with COVlD as excuse. This, despite the fact that the site is all outdoors.
The Bahá’í community made a video answering this exact question, what is the Bahá’í experience of Pilgrimage:
th-cam.com/video/l1LJ478dXGM/w-d-xo.html
I suppose a tourist would be a spectator in cities like Jersalem and Mecca, while a pilgrim is in those cities for deeper reasons.
I love my family Bahai one people one God
The Bahá’í community made a video describing the Bahá’í experience of pilgrimage. Search “Pilgrimage: A Sacred Experience”
[I’m putting this comment again in case the TH-cam link gets auto-blocked]
To me tourism is more about observation, and a little bit of interaction. Tourists go to places to look at things, places, people; to watch how others go about their daily rituals. Pilgrimage is about immersion into that religious culture. Pilgrims are usually doing rituals that they have been doing at home regularly. Going to holy places gives them a sense of the ancient roots of those practices and they feel a great comradeship with other practitioners of their faith.
Tourism is curiosity. Pilgrimage is belief.
Personally I think the distinction between pilgrimage and tourism only exists because it doesn't take much effort to get to a popular site nowadays, so places that once took a lot of effort to get to, people will go during a holiday now. If you actually have a distinction then they're still always going to be intertwined; I've heard that the Catholic Church under the ostrogoths actually started promoting rome as a pilgrimage site since they couldn't take taxes on land like the germanic kings and dukes and they couldn't tax trade like Venice, so they relied on money from pilgrimages for money.
From my understanding mecca had a similar situation since it doesn't seem particularly strategic compared to Cairo or Baghdad and pilgrimage was a big source of money.
Baha'i religion is tolerated in Israel but they are not allowed to seek converts. The religion got a kick when Seal and Kroft(s) had a few hits in the 70s and said they were part of the religion. When I visited the shrine in the 70s just to see what was there, the temple was pretty empty except for flowers and fruit that were supposed to be offerings. They had been there for days. What did you see inside?
I didn’t go inside. My impression it was only for Baha’is.
@@ReligionForBreakfast Actually, persons who are not Baha'is can go inside the Shrine of Baha'u'llah and the Shrine of the Bab. But it is very simple and spartan, mostly carpets, flowers, and lamps and a threshold into the rooms where the Bab, Baha'u'llah, and 'Abdu'l-Baha (front-center room of Shrine of the Bab) are interred.
Yes, but there are a lot of Baha'is from Jewish background.
@@NaserEmtesali And?
@@alg11297 And they hold important positions in the hierarchy.
I personally put the difference to ritual penance tourism is just visiting a pilgrimage involves ritual penance and worship
Yes, Bahá'ís don't "live" in Israel as standing cooperation and reassurance, that (in my words) we aren't trying to populate or convert Israel - rather there is complete focus on our holy places. We are in wonder as all tourists around Israel but purely reverent when formally requested pilgrimage dates are granted, realized to our historic sites and fullfiilled
There are no more pilgrimages because there's no more pilgrims. What used to be a dangerous journey to a holy place is now just a plane fight and a few other tickets and waiting lines.
I think it depends more on intent than beliefe. as Unitarian Universalist I believe very similarly to Bahi's in that I think that we all worship the same God,however I don't believe that a new revelation supercedes the old ones, and there are many sites I'd like to visit. personally I follow Buddhism the most but I'd also like to pilgrimage to places of other religions as a UU my main pilgrimages would be in Hungary and I 100% will go when I have money. the reason I say intent over belief is because the Hungarian Unitarians are much more traditional than UUs in America so in visiting sites in Hungary we are visiting very traditional Christian sites nevertheless Unitarian thought and our culture of a Free Faith began in Hungary so when we go to feel the great spirit there it's still a pilgrimage even if our beliefs do not always allign with the local Unitarians.
It's not that Baha'is believe that a new revelation "supercedes" old ones, necessarily. A new manifestation reveals new teachings and laws that are the most relevant to that age and the needs and development of the people of that age. Spiritual teachings remain eternally true, but social guidance changes from age to age based on the development of humanity and the needs of the time. A spiritual teaching may also be explained in more detail and more in depth in a new revelation because humanity is more mature and ready to understand.
Was surprised to find out about the Poland connection for UU...had to google it. Interesting.
Religion for Breakfast spending too much time in Jerusalem, check out the beard
Jerusalem syndrome strikes again.
Just wait, one day his face would shine like Moses! XD
I’m a Baha’i and I should add that Baha’is get to see the museums , gatherings , and all that , but the rest is open to everyone and anyone who wishes to visit the garden and the buildings. Israelis mostly use the beautiful gardens for wedding pictures and as why the Baha’is don’t reside in Israel , I might add that is better for all of us ;) otherwise millions of faithful choose to be near the shrines and problems starts from there on. Baha’is don’t have rituals and are forbidden of creating any! Humanity should grow up and rely on more than rituals.
I have not been on pilgrimage, but I know people who have. Their experience (9 days) was different than yours. They have Baha'i guides, usually volunteers from other countries. They have planned activities with opportunities for prayer and reverence- more sites than just the shrine of the Bab. In this religion, rituals are discouraged, so you will not see them, although there are some things that are done a certain way out of respect. Also, it is my understanding that the Israeli government does not allow people to convert to the Bahai faith in Israel, and the Bahai's respect this. If you want to convert, you must go do that in another country, and I suppose you get counted under that country's numbers.
it is the other way round - the Baha'i Administration in Israel does not want any local Israeli to be Baha'is. The time will come in the future but not now. When? no one knows yet. Have a nice day