For people criticising Patters for playing this way, it's worth remembering a few things: Prior to the game, Jams set the expectation that this game would be ridiculous and got buy in from the players for that. Secondly, both Jams and Patters know these players very well and are in a good position to judge whether the other players would enjoy the game with these kinds of antics.
This makes me wonder if we could have a Minion whose power is to get the ability of a not in play demon, excluding the ability to kill, so you could have things like a no dashi poisoning in a leviathan game. Probably too complicated and with too many edge cases.
If there is a game to watch, it is this. Also shout outs to the evil team [spoiler below] making sure to nominate each other early so they couldn't get executed, then pushing for executions on that last day. Real good play. Also to me it sounded like Arif said "Piss and chips" at the end and I'm still giggling about that and all the squid puns throughout.
I think the problem is that with 2 demons, it would mean that the evil team has the advantage, and ST should try to help the town rather than the evil team.
Okay... Dumb idea here but is it possible to have 2 sets of evil teams? Say a 20 player game with 14 good players, 1 team of evil and a second team of evil, so 14 good 4 minions, 2 demons... Good win by killing both demons, only one evil team can win, the other evil team loses... I think there's an idea in there, it would obviously require a "Gardener" and possibly other fabled? But with a cerenovus/pixie/mutant/etc double claims will be allowed. An Amnesiac could be fun. Obviously single killing demons like Vortox/NoDashi/Imp/Viga/Leech... No Spy or Widow... Like I say, there's an idea in there
There are scripts that have that, e.g. two evil teams of one imp and one poisoner, I have seen some games of that on TH-cam, but forget who use to play them.
@@TorIverWilhelmsen oh cool, I'll keep an eye out for them, most of the games I've watched are serious and low on shenanigans, only really only started watching what patters does with the Amnesiac for example.
This is beautiful, I'm enjoying it immensely. Beyond the mechanical shenanigans, the squid theming is delightful. I can't find the script on the Azure scripts site, is it there under a different name? Or can it be put up there?
Man why anyone would chose an info role to bluff as when pulling mutant is beyond me. There’s gotta be a way to play for fun without completely tanking your team’s chances of winning.
There are multiple valid reasons to bluff an info role as a Mutant. Firstly, it is easier to 'sell' that you're a townsfolk if you're providing info, because it allows you to actively contribute to the game more. Just going "um yeah I'm a Farmer" or whatever is tougher to be convincing with, and if town start building worlds where you're an outsider then you can get put in a very rough spot, especially in a Leviathan game. Secondly, and conversely to the first point, if your information is provably false then it can signal to town that you're the Mutant while still allowing you to 'present' as town. And thirdly, and for me most importantly, if you're a more social player than a mechanical one (which Patters *absolutely* is), you can use the information you're saying to provide 'reasons' for town to pursue the worlds you want to pursue. You think this person is lying? Make up info framing it! I love bluffing Savant as Mutant, to the point where I don't do it anymore because it's a 'tell'. And it's certainly not intentional self-sabotage.
@@jameswaumsley7701 why would town automatically think a more passive role is an outsider? That feels like such a stretch. And keeping the savant bluff was extra rough because it worked against the actual savant who had mostly good info.
@@RaucousTiger it's not that town would think a more passive role is an outsider. It's that, as a player, it's harder for you to be mad that you're not one if you don't have an argument to push back on. Patters was never in danger of being executed for breaking Mutant madness because he was actively claiming to be a townsfolk. Keeping the Savant bluff was pretty mandatory. He couldn't risk getting executed, and there was no easy pivot for him to make without seeming like the Mutant. I don't think maintaining it was as detrimental as you're making it out to be - firstly because we know people were speculating Patters could be the Mutant by the end of the game (we heard it in a conversation); secondly because it told Patters Alex was good, and he was able to actively push people away from nominating/executing Alex in the final two days; and thirdly because Alex's info was poisoned for the first two days. You say it was extra rough because it worked against the actual Savant info, but the Savant info said that one of Math and Fish was a bluff. Then on day 4, with both the people claiming those roles dead, that there was one dead evil player. If they'd trusted Alex's info they'd have been even more sure than Daniel was evil and Lorinda was lying than they were with Patters muddying it! At the very least, I don't think it's remotely fair to how Patters played that game to call it intentional self-sabotage.
I honestly am not sure I'd welcome Patters at my table. I believe it is not fair to the other players for people to work actively against their own team (something like Poltician notwithstanding). I don't hold with "playing for chaos", and would generally not invite players like that back.
So, a few points on this, as someone who wasn't in this game but appears on these streams often. Firstly, I don't think Patters played for chaos here. His token was one where you need to commit to presenting as a townsfolk you are not, and with a Leviathan in play you can't really afford to break madness because you risk losing the game. Savant is a risky townsfolk to bluff as, but can be very useful for helping push narratives if you strongly suspect certain people are good/evil for social reasons rather than mechanical ones. Patters even says "I might be in too deep" and "I might be doing more harm than good", so he knows the risk, but he's not trying to actively work against his own team in this game, he was just committed to his bluff in his role as an outsider, and outsiders are meant to be detrimental to the good team. Secondly, this was a silly, chaotic game from the start. It seems daft to complain about someone being too chaotic in a *Leviathan And No Dashii game*. Thirdly, Patters is one of the most fun people to play with, be that as a player or storyteller, good or evil. He gets invested in the games; allows room for other players to talk while also ensuring he gets to make his own points; doesn't make players feel bad for their actions, even if he's annoyed with things they've done; and makes you have a good time even when he's doing things that seem unhelpful. His plays don't always work out, but he's always doing them to attempt to accomplish something, not because he just feels like being "lol random" or whatever. Lastly, and most importantly, a quick reminder that players read these comments. Try to be kind, because if I was Patters I wouldn't have wanted to read that.
If he had broken madness, it would have lost good the game. Granted I think he took it a little far, but ey it was fun, but we the audience had the benefit of seeing the grim, for all Patters knew, Alex was evil with the clockmaker 1, and he was stealing a bluff off the evil team given there was a pair of players up the top that was alive. I'm **sure** had the game survived past the levithan cut-off, he would have come clean.
Watching Alex’s face cam when Patters was giving his day 2 “savant” info was amazing 😂😂
For people criticising Patters for playing this way, it's worth remembering a few things:
Prior to the game, Jams set the expectation that this game would be ridiculous and got buy in from the players for that.
Secondly, both Jams and Patters know these players very well and are in a good position to judge whether the other players would enjoy the game with these kinds of antics.
Patters played an amazing politician game here. 🤣
This makes me wonder if we could have a Minion whose power is to get the ability of a not in play demon, excluding the ability to kill, so you could have things like a no dashi poisoning in a leviathan game. Probably too complicated and with too many edge cases.
41:54 The Squidmonger and the Squidfather, from their union comes two blubby bois
Love the unintentional mutant-savant role swap between Alex and Patters.
@53:00 Torturing patters would have been changing the 'fearmonger targetted the farmer' to the 'fearmonger targetted the mutant'
If there is a game to watch, it is this. Also shout outs to the evil team [spoiler below]
making sure to nominate each other early so they couldn't get executed, then pushing for executions on that last day. Real good play.
Also to me it sounded like Arif said "Piss and chips" at the end and I'm still giggling about that and all the squid puns throughout.
lovely shenanigans, what a joy to watch!
God I love patters' nonsense. Don't listen to the people getting upset lol.
I think the problem is that with 2 demons, it would mean that the evil team has the advantage, and ST should try to help the town rather than the evil team.
It feels like a -1 outsider might be a good idea
Counting Squids had that banger in the 90s “Davy Jones”.
🎶Davy Jones and me
Tell each other fairy tales🎶 59:52
Okay... Dumb idea here but is it possible to have 2 sets of evil teams? Say a 20 player game with 14 good players, 1 team of evil and a second team of evil, so 14 good 4 minions, 2 demons... Good win by killing both demons, only one evil team can win, the other evil team loses... I think there's an idea in there, it would obviously require a "Gardener" and possibly other fabled? But with a cerenovus/pixie/mutant/etc double claims will be allowed. An Amnesiac could be fun. Obviously single killing demons like Vortox/NoDashi/Imp/Viga/Leech... No Spy or Widow... Like I say, there's an idea in there
There are scripts that have that, e.g. two evil teams of one imp and one poisoner, I have seen some games of that on TH-cam, but forget who use to play them.
@@TorIverWilhelmsen oh cool, I'll keep an eye out for them, most of the games I've watched are serious and low on shenanigans, only really only started watching what patters does with the Amnesiac for example.
If you look up Blood on the Clocktower Turf Wars you can see this in action
@@Talkie_Toaster games like this have been played by ‘The Grimoire’ channel
Patters was the 4th evil player this game 😅
When he was revealing his Savant information 55 minutes in, I only had eyes for Alex and Jams' reactions. No idea what anyone else thought.
Double the fun! Like and subscribe! That’s two actions!😊
Aren't players seeing witch player is awoken since you have cameras on during the night?
This is beautiful, I'm enjoying it immensely. Beyond the mechanical shenanigans, the squid theming is delightful.
I can't find the script on the Azure scripts site, is it there under a different name? Or can it be put up there?
Man why anyone would chose an info role to bluff as when pulling mutant is beyond me. There’s gotta be a way to play for fun without completely tanking your team’s chances of winning.
Patters is chaos incarnate. That is all.
@@Steev42intentional self sabotage just is not fun viewing.
There are multiple valid reasons to bluff an info role as a Mutant. Firstly, it is easier to 'sell' that you're a townsfolk if you're providing info, because it allows you to actively contribute to the game more. Just going "um yeah I'm a Farmer" or whatever is tougher to be convincing with, and if town start building worlds where you're an outsider then you can get put in a very rough spot, especially in a Leviathan game. Secondly, and conversely to the first point, if your information is provably false then it can signal to town that you're the Mutant while still allowing you to 'present' as town. And thirdly, and for me most importantly, if you're a more social player than a mechanical one (which Patters *absolutely* is), you can use the information you're saying to provide 'reasons' for town to pursue the worlds you want to pursue. You think this person is lying? Make up info framing it! I love bluffing Savant as Mutant, to the point where I don't do it anymore because it's a 'tell'. And it's certainly not intentional self-sabotage.
@@jameswaumsley7701 why would town automatically think a more passive role is an outsider? That feels like such a stretch. And keeping the savant bluff was extra rough because it worked against the actual savant who had mostly good info.
@@RaucousTiger it's not that town would think a more passive role is an outsider. It's that, as a player, it's harder for you to be mad that you're not one if you don't have an argument to push back on. Patters was never in danger of being executed for breaking Mutant madness because he was actively claiming to be a townsfolk.
Keeping the Savant bluff was pretty mandatory. He couldn't risk getting executed, and there was no easy pivot for him to make without seeming like the Mutant.
I don't think maintaining it was as detrimental as you're making it out to be - firstly because we know people were speculating Patters could be the Mutant by the end of the game (we heard it in a conversation); secondly because it told Patters Alex was good, and he was able to actively push people away from nominating/executing Alex in the final two days; and thirdly because Alex's info was poisoned for the first two days. You say it was extra rough because it worked against the actual Savant info, but the Savant info said that one of Math and Fish was a bluff. Then on day 4, with both the people claiming those roles dead, that there was one dead evil player. If they'd trusted Alex's info they'd have been even more sure than Daniel was evil and Lorinda was lying than they were with Patters muddying it!
At the very least, I don't think it's remotely fair to how Patters played that game to call it intentional self-sabotage.
I honestly am not sure I'd welcome Patters at my table. I believe it is not fair to the other players for people to work actively against their own team (something like Poltician notwithstanding). I don't hold with "playing for chaos", and would generally not invite players like that back.
So, a few points on this, as someone who wasn't in this game but appears on these streams often.
Firstly, I don't think Patters played for chaos here. His token was one where you need to commit to presenting as a townsfolk you are not, and with a Leviathan in play you can't really afford to break madness because you risk losing the game. Savant is a risky townsfolk to bluff as, but can be very useful for helping push narratives if you strongly suspect certain people are good/evil for social reasons rather than mechanical ones. Patters even says "I might be in too deep" and "I might be doing more harm than good", so he knows the risk, but he's not trying to actively work against his own team in this game, he was just committed to his bluff in his role as an outsider, and outsiders are meant to be detrimental to the good team.
Secondly, this was a silly, chaotic game from the start. It seems daft to complain about someone being too chaotic in a *Leviathan And No Dashii game*.
Thirdly, Patters is one of the most fun people to play with, be that as a player or storyteller, good or evil. He gets invested in the games; allows room for other players to talk while also ensuring he gets to make his own points; doesn't make players feel bad for their actions, even if he's annoyed with things they've done; and makes you have a good time even when he's doing things that seem unhelpful. His plays don't always work out, but he's always doing them to attempt to accomplish something, not because he just feels like being "lol random" or whatever.
Lastly, and most importantly, a quick reminder that players read these comments. Try to be kind, because if I was Patters I wouldn't have wanted to read that.
If he had broken madness, it would have lost good the game.
Granted I think he took it a little far, but ey it was fun, but we the audience had the benefit of seeing the grim, for all Patters knew, Alex was evil with the clockmaker 1, and he was stealing a bluff off the evil team given there was a pair of players up the top that was alive.
I'm **sure** had the game survived past the levithan cut-off, he would have come clean.
That was 100% him working against his team. Way more than would be necessary to maintain mutant madness