Reminds me of Doug Demuro when he drove a low mileage 2004 STI and said there was a clear case for the older car being better. Same power, less weight and much more character.
I owned a 2006 STi and test drove both subsequent models. They did not have the same magic at all. I think it's the same issue we see everywhere where sometimes the new cars are better "cars" for the everyday populace but worse cars for enthusiasts specifically.
The CB18 engine, released three years ago, uses an unequal length manifold, giving it a unique, old-fashioned sound. However, I do not know if such engines are also installed in other countries.
@dougedwardsyachts my VB wrx weighs less than 50kg more than an '04 sti. And the VB is much quicker. The sti did have a more robust transmission and better brakes for the track. Though I don't track my car nor do I modify it so that's not a concern for me personally. The vb is much easier to live with for a daily. There are pros and cons for both vehicles depending on your usage. Either way, both are great vehicles.
the price is the deal breaker. it either needs to be cheaper, or for the current price it needs more performance features: limited slip diffs, variable center diff, more power, standard STI short shifter etc. The GR corolla premium is a better package for 41k, not to mention it comes in a hatchback body style.
And you can get the Core with the 2 LSDS for thousands less. If the VB was $2,500k less across the range of trims it would be a much more compelling option. People will point out you can negotiate that price off at dealers but no, I want to negotiate from a realistic MSRP.
@@g_p_3431 the inflation increase from then to now is what 2500-3k big whoop the point is they are still selling a car priced like their sti was minus the performance bits.
Had a 17 STI, now a 22 VB. Two completely different cars in terms of feel, power and performance. However I will tell you I enjoy the new feel. It’s a much more comfortable daily that still gives you that thrill. Imo it’s the perfect daily for many reasons. I guess at 33 years old I fit that older demographic….
I am older and still feel that a STI is way way better. With that lock diff, hydraulic steering, the raw feel of the STI, it can’t be beat. Have fun with your car though.
The 6-Speed STI transmission and LSD's is what keeps Subaru solidly in the game. That's their golden nugget, sad to see it not around. When you drive the cars hard, that's what you feel.
I've lived in Canada 30 years, and will say - you do not need AWD to put up with winters and snow. Blizzaks or similar winter tires will get you through anything on your day to day commute. If anyone is considering the Elantra N or a similar FWD car spend the money for the winter on great tires and you will be just fine. Great video thanks Matt & Zack
While I agree you don't need AWD to put up with winter, you do need it to have the most fun/enjoyment. Even a FWD with a limited slip diff is fighting for traction more than you'd like. My old Focus ST was still fun in the winter, but it could barely ever put it's 255hp down.
Former Albertan here. Had a 2002 WRX for a few years. The thing about an AWD vehicle in the winter isn't about whether or not you need it. A real AWD car like a Subaru is SO FUN in the snow. Power on oversteer anytime while still being very stable when you need it- awesome. Way more fun than any FWD vehicle I owned. In the summer I would say that AWD vs FWD is a close battle, but then RWD is really the winner that time of year anyhow.
In some areas like northern VA (DC suburbs), there is not enough cold to justify snow tires. They'll get chewed-up in no time, due to warm days mixed with cold. You'd have to swap wheels/tires every 2 or 3 weeks. AWD with all-seasons and you can drive all year round on the same tires, except the heavy snow once every 5-10 years (which you need an SUV or a jeep to get thru until it's plowed).
I have a 22 and love it. I wouldn't spend this type of money on it though. I bought my limited new for well under msrp at the time. All I did was install a short shifter kit and it's great. The car works for my lifestyle.
In Canada, the loaded manual “sport tech” is the same price as the new TR (we call it an RS in Canada). Both are $44k CDN. $44k CDN is $32k USD. That’s a pretty good value. Pricing in the US seems weird. It’s worth mentioning that in 2022, the new loaded manual VB car was $39k, and then inflation took its toll largely in the jump from MY2023 to MY2024.
I've had mixed feelings about this generation of WRX ever since it was announced and seeing it again presents me with another question. The efforts to make it more comfortable, quiet, offering a CVT, etc. really make me wonder about an overall trend in the new car market, namely, are people under 30 buying new cars? I mean let's just take the average 25 year-old male, because that's really the WRX's target demographic, right? We know college graduation rates for males are going down (I think it's a little under 40%), we know the average amount of student loan debt carried by graduates with a bachelor's degree is 30k (varies state-by-state), we know rent prices are higher than ever, wage stagnation is worse than ever, inflation rates are through the roof, interest rates are still through the roof, more young people than ever are remaining single for longer. So like, your average 25 year old male is most likely single, meaning 1 source of income, either still lives at home or is spending half of their net income on rent even with a roommate, has student loan debt, statistically speaking probably didn't even earn a degree but is still holding that debt, working outside of their field of study most likely in some sort of entry level or unskilled position meaning lower wages (national median gross income for an individual is $37,00/y), might have other sources of unproductive debt (credit cards, personal loans, payday loans, etc.). So like in this scenario, which is the reality for a lot of young adults, who the hell under 30 can afford to saddle yourself to a $500-$700/m car payment before even mentioning owning and operating expenses? So inherently, from the automakers perspective, who does it make more sense to market this car to? The kids 18-28 that can't afford it? Or the 30-40 group that might be able to justify the expense? TL;DR cars are changing because young buyers can't afford them
I think sad truth is that the true hot hatch/sedan is long and gone. All of these now are target 30-40 year old millennial, granted a lot of them probably struggle to pay bills, buy groceries, and afford a high car payment. There's also the fact that a lot of people now are either shacking up with multiple roomates too cut down cost, or just simply not move out of their parents house. One of my co-worker(20M) is going to school full time, while working full time, and living at home. He managed to save up enough money to buy a brand new 3 series. Another guy(27) that just figured out how too make smart investments so he has makes a bit of passive income on top of his full time job.
Valid points. I could never afford a full fledged performance car in my 20s and 30s so I bought an Elantra N at 40. My wife hates how low the seats are, and I get annoyed at the firm suspension every time I go over a bump and coffee splashes out of the cup. It makes sense from a business standpoint to make these cars softer and more mature. Although, if they marketed the Legacy Sport correctly they could do both. The WRX needs to be cheaper though for younger people to be able to buy them.
Hes right about the shifter they have always been trash....the problem mainly is the stock shifter bushings are straight trash. Then if you upgrade to a kartboy shifter and bushings you also have to change to an aftermarket reverse lockout and a weighted shift knob to get a perfect feeling shifter which will set you back about $600 just in parts.
@@tomrakusan1179 an example would be the Elantra N. Handles better, is quicker, and is cheaper. The TR package has improved it, but no LSD, no power upgrade, but the cost will put you in golf r territory price wise.
Something they didnt mention or I missed it. The new TR will have all of the eyesight features missing on the manual. You will now get adaptive Cruze in the TR.
For the money Subaru is asking for this car, I would have liked to see a rear LSD and a rear biased or controllable center diff. GR Corolla offers both of these things at a lower price point. My dad bought an OG TR back in 2006, it was spartan on the inside, but mechanically offered a lot for the money - 24 grand got you 230 hp, fixed piston calipers front and rear, and a rear limited slip. That's 38k in today's money, right where GRC Core with performance pack comes in.
I have a 2022 WRX Premium. Quality of build is excellent. Have driven in a foot of snow on the stock summer tires with no problem thanks to the four wheel drive. This thing handles like crazy. Yes, other cars are faster in a straight line, but I can blow by them through traffic circles and on winding mountain roads. This thing is tuned for high speed highway travel and slicing through curves. Have fun driving this car every day. Fuel economy is descent too. I really like this car. Told my Subaru dealer to let me know when they get a TR as I am interested. Not sure I will buy it as it is pricey, but who knows. I like the WRX way more than I though I would.
@@Teromi yea that’s true, but imo VB should’ve gotten the STI 6 speed in every model and the price should be the same as it currently sits. Obviously that’s unrealistic but that’s what should’ve happened imo
@@bradydevergilio7478 I agree. The TR model should have the STi 6 speed and Brembos, essentially an STi. Even if the price is in the 40's, that's fine. That's what higher tier models are for. This TR doesn't feel like it's special enough, to me.
@@bradydevergilio7478 Honestly that would made so much sense, given how easy it is make power with the FA24. Mass production would made it cheaper, and they could of given the DCCD setup to the TR.
I have a VB, I love it, I wouldn't spend this kind of money on one. It's an awesome car in the low 30's for what you get (great handling, AWD, manual, quick enough to be fun) but at 40+ I would have been looking at other options. Even if this were a proper STI for like $45k I would be considering something else. Not a GR Corolla or a Golf R, but probably a BRZ or Miata or something that is sportier and cheaper.
I have one as well and it’s a fun car. I am def enjoying it. But the TR is not worth the price for me just cause it has brembos. Corolla was to expensive I think and very little room compared to the VB I think. For the price I am on with my premium model. The TR is not worth the money for a TR badge and the other things they made changes too including same power. If this was an STI them maybe I would consider.
I had a base manual VB and it was fantastic, AWD is so good in the Pacific Northwest. For 30k it was a pretty good deal considering all the competition was marked up. Unfortunately, it got totaled by a falling tree a week ago. I'd love a TR but the price is just a non-starter. WRX is great at the low 30s price range but the value proposition gets dicier the closer you get to the 40s. I'd grab one used in a few years after the first owner takes the depreciation hit. I've seen Limited trim WRXs in the low 30s with low miles.
I’ve thoroughly enjoyed my 22’ sapphire blue premium in VT. It’s doing a great job handling an absurd amount of weather situations. Yes not a track weapon… honestly if you want to be fast in tarmac there are better options… but if you want to be fast and handle variable terrain and weather conditions this is a compelling solution. The cladding really helps protect the fenders as well, and I think they make the car look cool.
You don't feel turbo surge because the turbo kicks in early and being a larger engine it can make the same power with less boost than the previous generation. The goal was to make the turbocharged 2.4l feel like a larger NA engine with a linear powerband and power low in the rpm range. Turbo lag is cool and all cuz the power surge but its bad it corners and it sucks when you have to wait for boost to kick in. The fa24 makes peak torque at 2000rpm the twin scroll turbo, also spools up quick.
No driving enthusiast wants their stock turbo car to feel NA lol. I highly prefer NA engines but one of the only things I liked about my 2004 WRX was the turbo sound and kick. Friend had a 2012 WRX and even that early on the turbo noise was virtually eliminated and shifter feel completely muted, less understeer / better rotation but I hated that thing. Subaru would rather cater to everyday people over driving enthusiasts. “But we have the BRZ for that” Low RPM torque is cool, certainly my ‘04 was lacking there as the engine felt anemic and essentially non existent before 2800-3200RPM. There are benefits to what they have done but the car has zero character vs earlier models. I do highly prefer the EL manifold sounds though, glad they went that route since the FA. Even out those cylinder temperatures
Hopefully the FA revs up quicker than the EJ205 and 255 for rev matching, couldn’t believe how slow they felt once I traded my WRX for an AP1 S2000. Even my mostly stock NA6 MX5 felt so much more responsive. I understand the appeal of NA but this is FI why take away the experience of such. Want it to feel NA throw on a SC instead
Not sure why people don't realize that Subaru is no longer a car enthusiast brand anymore. Other than the BRZ, they don't have a purpose built performance car like the S209 anymore. That project proved to be a failure. They make their money by selling Crosstreks and Foresters. WRX today is just a shared platform with all the other soft cars and it showed in the track it can't hang with other purpose built cars. STI wasn't profitable, they kept having ringland problems no matter how bulletproof the transmission was their engines suck. HQ probably shut the segment because it is losing too much money from warranty and recalls. Then you have cars like the Elantra and Kona N come out recently and spanked the WRX easily for less money. Why would someone spend $40k on this car when there are so many better choices. This isn't even faster than used 2017 Type Rs.
To be fair, The new type r FL5 is only faster from a dig, When roll racing the old 2017 FK8 is faster either way no spec WRX with awd stands a chance against the type r on the track or straight line & it’s like your implying that’s there slow 2017 or not 🤷♂️
Subaru is the only company that comes to mind that can get away with rebadging the same "sport enthusiast car" every year with almost identical specs, no power increase and truly making the driving experience worse every new model. They abandoned their enthusiast drivers (a huge percentage of their demographic) by never truly improving the WRX/STi, yet charging more year after year. This brand has clearly shifted their focus to care too much about the fluff when the customers of these vehicles just want more reliable power. And a manual.
Idk... i bought my GR STi new in 2011. It has 87k miles of abuse. Maintenance always on point. Still running strong and healthy... nothing has really changed performance wise since that STi till current except for the price increase. However, I'd be really hesitant to buy a used STi or even WRX. This car the WRX TR is like 43k thats insane. People are gonna buy it though. Im not a big fan. Im also not a fan of the EJ257 lol but alas here we are.
@@timothyvu7006 perfect place to own a VB. I’m a snowboarder and spend my weekends in the Sierras. I’m always looking forward to snowstorms so I can have a little bit of fun in the car as well as on my board ✌️
agree, our vb can beat other cars, i enjoy my vb i recently found out it has open diffs front and rear, if only it be like sti with front lsd and the center dccd and the rear lsd. but gpt proof we dont need it, search "initial d ae85 vs silvia race". in that is good driver takumi with ae86 with lsd just like sti and his friend itsuki buy ae85 which is like wrx without lsd. but guess what, you put the good driver takumi in the ae85 and he still beat a car, silvia, in a race. that show me it is more about driver and if i get good will easily beat sti, evo, gr corolla, gtr.
@@elsicario7359yeah LSD is truly beneficial when you’re doing a track day and you’re trying to drive really hard out of a corner and want maximum grip. The viscous open diff setup on the VB is fine for daily driving and spirited canyon carving. The chassis on this platform is already very rigid and planted. You just have to drive this car like a FWD around corners.
Subaru needs to fix these fenders, it’s been pretty universally accepted that the cheapen the WRX and make it look like a Crosstrek.. Plus, the custom painted color-matched ones are proof that it looks SO MUCH BETTER
@@samjaw82 Uhh what? Look up any new WRX with paint matched flares and you'll see how much better it looks. I've never once seen someone say the painted flares look bad, lol. I own an 06 STi, I'm on several Subaru forums.. who says they look bad paint matched? That's just crazy. I personally don't even mind the stock black flares that much but they're just that much better painted.
@@hhasteI prefer the stock cladding on my ‘22 ignition red. Paint matched flares do look good depending on what else is done to the car though, primarily wheel/tire setup
@@hhaste I've seen people who got there's painted, and then thought it didn't really end up looking right. Personally I kind of like them unpainted, it adds the rally inspired look. The ugly af bumper is biggest offender, I don't how they couldn't come up with something better. Like that bumper JDMmuscle recently came out with looks 1000x better than that big plastic diaper.
I have a 23 limited, the STI aftermarket exhaust makes a huge difference. This is my first go with Subaru and will most certainly be my last. Just not a fan of the low revs and the mmi is horrendous.
Get a downpipe and dyno tune then make your decision. Transforms it into a totally different car. I've owned my 06 STi since 2008, 16 years now and I'm still not tired of it, after the tune. Granted, I'm starting to outgrow the power now, it's still a ton of fun on the street. More power just means getting in trouble faster.
@@louKushh Not this new gen. The FA24 can easy make 350-370whp with just a Intake, top intercooler, cat back, and a pro-tune Add a J-pipe and swap to a front intercooler to get 400+.There's already a big turbo kit out too. But then you hit the snag of the fact they carried over the glass trans of the VA, but if you got the money a STI trans swap will solve that. It's really a shame they didn't make a new STI with a upgraded FA 24 or a new EJ based on it.
As a 2020 WRX(my 2nd WRX) owner over, I’ve decided to move on to another platform for my next car. I was really hoping my next car would be a newer STI. But Subaru has decided they don’t want the business from loyal STI loving enthusiasts. Time to try something else and more exciting.
I have a 2007 STi Hawkeye and a 2023 WRX. The new car has a far better engine and chassis. It’s the transmission and steering feel that are better than my 07 STi. (Brakes as well). This new FA24f engine is WAY better than any Subaru engine in previous WRX & STi models. This is the best WRX ever made, just need to do an STI trans swap which is easy to do.
The GR Corolla interior is straight up TRASH. The hatch is absolutely useless. It’s smaller than the VB trunk. Also, on paper the GR has more power, but it’s really no different to drive than the new VB, especially on the street. I don’t think the added cost is justified.
Such a shame the STI is gone. I wish this new body style was as good looking as previous gens. I'm seriously looking to jump into the Subaru world. As for now though, I guess I'll stick with my 9th gen Si.
Congrats on the "premium" TH-cam plaque 👍👍 About the car - i wish they put this drivetrain in the new RS wagon, but whatev, at least they're leaning into the manual somewhere. Now if they would just paint the cladding...🤦
I actually like the idea of the gear ratio being short. Most people will use this car as a daily which means you can enjoy flicking through the gears in normal roads without breaking the speed limit all the time. Other manuals I have you boot it in 2nd and then you're done.
I own a 2007 WRX TR that I bought brand new from the Dealer when I was 24. I bought it at a time before I could afford an STi with hopes that, one day I would upgrade. I liked the hatch STI in 08, but was surprised that not much improved with the powertrain from the 07 STi. I held off with hopes that someday Subaru would give it a bigger bump to keep up in the early 2010's with competition. That never happened. I kept my TR because it was reliable, dependable and fun. That being said, not sure I will ever get another Subaru. I have an Ascent as well, and the looks of everything in their lineup now just turns me off. They really need to improve their looks and steal a designer like Peter Schreyer or Tom Kearns.
For me, as a 2014 WRX owner, the power band in the 22+ is odd. Not saying mine by any means is all that great, but at least I can wring it out to 6700rpm and that feels dramatic and fun. When I test drove one of these, I was surprised by the low redline. Additionally, it only makes 6hp more than mine, and it just doesn't feel it. I think it's a heavier car than my hatch and you feel it. Last thing, the transmission to me feels awful. Pretty rubbery and uninspiring. The 5speed in my WRX is at least connected via a linkage to my hand and actually feels nice and notchy (I have the factory short throw installed). For me, the new WRX in any flavor just does not do it.
Really unfortunate. The first time i saw one of these, i thought it was a new civic from behind. Then i got up next to it, and i was like oh they changed the outback again. Then i saw the wrx badge, and i said yuck.
The base manual MSRP is 30k and selling at most places for below that. Name a better car for that price. If I was 30 again, it would be on my buy list. I had. 2004 back in the day but outgrew it.
@@stevelouie5928how about a base model Camry starting at $26,420.00. May not be as fun but over all definitely a more reliable car that is guaranteed to last longer.
@@DM72513 this is one of the best motors Subarus out out in a long time. It just has a tiny stock turbo. People have made 600whp+ on unopened motors with it already.
The VB WRX is a great value. I have a 23 premium that was about 32k OTD. I have an intake and a dyno tune from a local company on 93 octane and made 349whp and 370 torque. These have no issue making power its the glass transmission you gotta worry about lol.
If you haven't driven any of the other cars it competes with it's a solid value. The problem is I was coming out of a Stage 1.5 MK7 GTI and had a spot on the GRC list when I test drove a 23 VB Premium. To say the manual gear box and engine were completely numb and uninspiring would be an understatement.
They also don't mention this in the review but a lot of this has been changing. Changes are also a difference in the factory alignments specs. The TR seem to have more castor when they come to the dealership and more camber. We adjust the toe base of a specs which seem to be the same range.
The TR is a no-go. But a premium for $32K + etune, yellow stuff brake pads, intake, catback? That’s the sweet spot for the VB. You could be all in with those mods for $36K, and you’d have a great car. As it stands, I think the TR should’ve had an extra 40HP for the price they are charging
You can change climate temperature with the buttons on the side and avoid using the slow screen. Also, when your heated seats are on, hold down the seat warmer button on the screen to turn them off. This way you dont have to push 3 times.
Back when the 22 came out I was out at the dealer getting a recal done on my 21 sti, so I test drove a 22 and was not impressed, feel of the car overall is numb like most modern cars there was no raw feel that the sti had or that the Wrx used to have pre 2015. Yes the 22 can make power cheaper but stock for stock definitely did not handle or brake anywhere near an sti.
@@todapower82 honestly if i didnt have my sti, i probably wouldn’t be buying a Wrx, I would set my sights higher. I’d be better off getting a used Gtr because by time im done buying and modding another subi that the price range i would be in.
Odd, cuz i had a tuned 2019 and did the same as you. Test drove the 22 and walked out the same day with it. I will say, i only buy Subaru and cant really buy anything else for some reason, but the 22 was just better in every way to me vs my 19. I still have an 02 and an 11 as well, but they just sit around collecting dust, especially after i tuned my 22 and got 392whp 433wtq out of it for under $2k extra spent.
@@Turbolious I had a lot more than a tune done to my sti it’s currently sitting at 325 whp 338 tq pump 91. At this point the oem turbo on the vb is better, which is where the higher numbers on the vb’s come from. The oem sti turbo capps out around 330whp on pump gas. At this point the only thing standing in my way of 400whp is a bigger turbo and maybe a header.
Personally speaking, I'm perfectly content with my non-tuned, all original 2023 WRX Sport-Tec (Canada) 6speed. Although it is not my daily driver (2021 Accord 2.0T Sport) it's a great weekend toy and fast little runabout to the cottage on weekends. Tossable, fun, very quick, very flat and planted while the manual is a blast to drive and far better than the last WRX I drove thanks to it's flat power curve and smoothness. Yes, the brakes are not steller and actually not as good as the Accord Sport. I do wish larger 19inch wheels filled up the wheel housing but overall I am happy and more than looking forward to bringing her back out of winter storage.
I normally love your reviews, but i think automotive influencers have been spoiled by all the cars they drive. This skews theire view of some of the good cars. I have a 2024 WRX base model and think its a blast after just adding a slightly louder exhaust to get a bit of noise, and then some sticky tires and nicer wheels. Its a great car for basically $35k I've spent. But you guys would probably think its boring because you just test drove a $200K Porsche.
I would love to hear what “cheaper” options are out there! Most cars are getting killed off, and the enthusiast models that are left have all dramatically gone up in price.
The TR is a secondary slap in the face for me. I planned on ordering the new STI as soon as it dropped and they pulled the rug out from me a few months before the expected release date
Ha same as me. I sold my limited 17STI for a 1 year old S4 to enjoy while waiting for the new higher HP STI. Subaru is killing the excitement for us car enthusiasts. All the Subaru dealers have so many on the lot cause nobody wants them since the total make over failure.
Maybe I’m confused but Matt said there is no Impreza or Legacy (in terms of models without cladding) but there is a 2024 Impreza, Legacy, and BRZ without cladding 8:31
8:35 um Impreza is still arround... the Impreza 2.5 RS Version was launched by your friend Bucky Lasek who made you sushi on a skateboard. Funny enough the Impreza is the only modern Subaru without cladding.
The current WRX is a family car. It's like the Jetta GLI... it isn't specifically targeted towards the track rats as are BRZ, Civic Type R and Elantra N. I have the base VB and the brakes are fine for daily use, they aren't comically bad like Mustang GT brakes used to be. I realize they wouldn't do well on track but I'm not going to take my car to the track. I just want a very capable and comfortable daily with decent back seats and a trunk, and I want it with AWD preferably. In Canada the Civic Si is more money, otherwise I might have considered it but If I'm getting 70 more HP and AWD for 10% less money... If I change my mind about the track, I'll look into upgrades.🤷♀ Apparently Nissan z32 4pot calipers ($150 each) fit with an adapter over the stock front rotor.
The thing I would change the most, if not using an STI trans, is the synchros. They suck. And i agree that for the price there are way better cars. My premium was 37,500. I put in about $5k already. That’s a pretty expensive car when for slightly more i could get something else. However, it is in its own niche.
I played around with one of these on Mulholland with my GFs 10th gen Accord Touring. The $42k fart box couldn't handle a FWD family sedan with a K20C4 and a 10sp auto. I felt embarrassed for the young guy😂
We will never own another wrx (or Subi) for that matter. Liked some things but more things I didn’t like. If this was given to me, I would sell it and get VW type r.
I miss my 2006 wrx. I liked and learned to drive it with and turbo lag. I hit black ice one morning on a curve going to work. Had it straightened out twice, but the third time lost it. Totaled it frincken sucked. Then got a 2008 tested it hard as I could with the salesman in there. I thought not bad until I had it for a few months. No turbo lag, no excitement and handling sucked. Just my opinion the old one was like on rails handling.
I need you to drive the '24 Limited or Premium and report back about any braking improvements derived from the larger master cylinder. And any handling improvement derived from the suspension mount point stiffening. I'm not sure why you're not already doing that for me. Sort of tired of waiting on you guys. Get with the program.
Good review but the one takeaway i had is that, for the average consumer, they aren’t gonna go out and buy the tr. If you buy a cheaper trim wrx its a pretty big price drop, leaving money for parts to bring it back up to par. The ElanN is 34-36k, the Golf R and Civic type R and like 45k, the GR is 36k. The VB wrx base? 31k. That 5-10k into the fa24 and suspension will make a hell of a difference, and the cost will be the base price of the competitors. i see this as punching up
however, i agree that the tr is a bullshit trim to line subaru execs pockets. It should have at least came with an sti 6spd for that money. If you have more money and want a already set up track car, go buy the gr or ctr. but if you are on a budget and want to build something to your own personal liking, vb is great. the plastic does take about a year to warm up to though. i understand that some people will never like it but thats ok. but the fa24 is no lie one of the, if not the best engine subaru has ever made
I have a '22 wrx premium that I've owned for a year and I typically defend Subaru but this TR trim is a joke. Bigger wheels, better brakes and sunroof delete for 42k I'm beginning to lose interest in Subaru altogether
I've got one (Elantra N) with winter tires. Any bit of ice or snow build up on the roads make it really annoying to drive in winter. You get jostled all over We just got 5 feet of snow at my house in the last 5 days and it's been parked in the garage for a week.
I feel like they missed on the TR. They should have added the seats and the brakes to a base model. Most people that are "tuners" would rather put after market stuff than have it provided by the manufacturer.
You guys nailed it on the comparisons. A 2023 GR Corolla Core was $37,XXX with destination with the 2 LSDs. You can get a 24 Core with the LSDs for $38,775 including destination. My fully loaded 23 Core was $39,XXX. Why would anyone buy a WRX Limited or TR?
@@michaeln.7083It's the quickest to 60 of the competitors that aren't the Golf R. There are tunes that require sending out your ECU that add 40whp and 30wtq on 93 without any further modification.
@@DM72513 The savage geese review for the GR is worth a look. The diffs overheat pretty quickly and the cooling is not very effective for track use. The lack of aftermarket support is really hurting that platform already. It will need a few years to catch up to the support the subaru has.
@DM72513 it's quicker stock maybe, my Golf R was a dud and needed gone quickly, My WRX is way faster then my golf,. It's a daily anyway I have a A91 edition Supra for fun and the track.
I would take this any day over a 55k Civic. For the price, you get AWD, a possible automatic, tidier proporitons and insane better value with no dealer markups. This is a much better AWD than the Golf.
even tho its a nice car they need a better engine, paint match parts, a wing from the older cars, shorter throws, a bigger turbo and better exhaust. its 2024 and it needs more power. hell give it a turbo v6 or a twin turbo v6, throw out the cvt cuz they're trash and give it more power cuz its disappointing af to spend 40k+ on a car with shit power in 2024. lose the chrome parts cuz theyre ugly, the side skirts are too big and the engine def needs more power in order to be #1 and beat the competition
So I still don’t understand what Subaru doesn’t understand about the WRX, STI or even the non STI variant. “I want a CVT”, said nobody ever, EVER!!!!!!. Give the car a decent auto, 8 speed or 10 speed, or give it a dual clutch for god sakes. What ever the cost difference is, I would pay it. I’m not sitting in city traffic shifting a manual, and I REFUSE, to own anything with a CVT, I don’t care how good it is. And yes the plastic is shit. It looks horrible after about a year no matter what magical solution you apply to it.
I love how Subaru's answer to the WRX complaints was "ALRIGHT, FINE, CRYBABIES. We'll configure the car the way it should've come for another 10 grand. Take it or leave it."
Been waiting for a new STI since I traded out of my 2016. It looks like I will be waiting a long time. I only got out of my STI because I needed something with more room.
This, with a roof rack, would make a great only car, especially for snow drivers! However, if you have two cars like me, it doesn't tick enough of the "fun" car boxes, and is not quite versatile enough to be my commuter, hauler, tow-vehicle... etc. Basically, I like it, but can't see myself ever owning one.
I think the engineers knew going in that the people that cared about more power would be tuning it anyway so they left room for more as well as for a final un official “sti” level trim down the road.
Hope so because my WRX handles terribly since it uses the SUV open front diff and open rear diff, even after upgrading coilovers, wheels, 200tw tires. They really need to release a new VB with the STI handling that the company is known for with the front LSD, center DCCD diff, and rear LSD.
I had a 2005 Legacy GT wagon that suffered from all the problems (ride, shifter, clutch) mentioned in here. I was hoping this would be an acceptable alternative to an Integra Type S, but it doesn't sound close.
Subaru got to work on the reliability issues especially with head gasket issues, oil and coolant leaks. That manual transmission is almost impossible to drive smoothly. Mazda can really show Subaru to refine all the issues. Toyota is the pinnacle of having all right and reliable.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Reminds me of Doug Demuro when he drove a low mileage 2004 STI and said there was a clear case for the older car being better. Same power, less weight and much more character.
I owned a 2006 STi and test drove both subsequent models. They did not have the same magic at all. I think it's the same issue we see everywhere where sometimes the new cars are better "cars" for the everyday populace but worse cars for enthusiasts specifically.
sport compacts peaked in the early 00s and everything today has been chasing or barely meeting that high from back then
Like rap/hip hop
The CB18 engine, released three years ago, uses an unequal length manifold, giving it a unique, old-fashioned sound. However, I do not know if such engines are also installed in other countries.
@dougedwardsyachts my VB wrx weighs less than 50kg more than an '04 sti. And the VB is much quicker. The sti did have a more robust transmission and better brakes for the track. Though I don't track my car nor do I modify it so that's not a concern for me personally. The vb is much easier to live with for a daily. There are pros and cons for both vehicles depending on your usage. Either way, both are great vehicles.
the price is the deal breaker. it either needs to be cheaper, or for the current price it needs more performance features: limited slip diffs, variable center diff, more power, standard STI short shifter etc. The GR corolla premium is a better package for 41k, not to mention it comes in a hatchback body style.
And you can get the Core with the 2 LSDS for thousands less. If the VB was $2,500k less across the range of trims it would be a much more compelling option. People will point out you can negotiate that price off at dealers but no, I want to negotiate from a realistic MSRP.
What’s crazy as it’s going for more than my 21sti limited was, and that can with lsd, hydraulic steering rack, better trans, and better Brembos.
Hatchback body style is a negative, IMO.. I know a lot of people like hatches, but I am _not_ one of those people. I agree with everything else.
@@lucian7182Obviously you’re not taking inflation increase throughout the years into consideration when comparing these prices of the VA STi days
@@g_p_3431 the inflation increase from then to now is what 2500-3k big whoop the point is they are still selling a car priced like their sti was minus the performance bits.
9:04 Matt you are 100% right, and I know that because my dad bought a new WRX and he fits that older buyer demo PERFECTLY
Had a 17 STI, now a 22 VB. Two completely different cars in terms of feel, power and performance. However I will tell you I enjoy the new feel. It’s a much more comfortable daily that still gives you that thrill. Imo it’s the perfect daily for many reasons. I guess at 33 years old I fit that older demographic….
I went from a 01 S2K to a 99 wrangler to a 22 wrx has a daily. I love my wrx!!!
I am older and still feel that a STI is way way better.
With that lock diff, hydraulic steering, the raw feel of the STI, it can’t be beat.
Have fun with your car though.
Answer: no. Next question.
I'll listen why.
Why not?
It’s lame that’s why
Answer: yes. Next question.
@@dominicancheif117and you went to Sicily to drive it?
The 6-Speed STI transmission and LSD's is what keeps Subaru solidly in the game. That's their golden nugget, sad to see it not around. When you drive the cars hard, that's what you feel.
Yes you are correct. I have more faith in the Sti trans more than the engine lol.
does the TR come with the STI 6 speed or the same wrx 6 speed?
@@AwesomeGamer55100 standard split case 6 speed sadly
@@Mvonada definitely not "tuner ready"
@@AwesomeGamer55100 unfortunately TR comes with regular WRX 6-speed that uses open diff, not the beefy STi 6-speed with LSD.
I've lived in Canada 30 years, and will say - you do not need AWD to put up with winters and snow. Blizzaks or similar winter tires will get you through anything on your day to day commute.
If anyone is considering the Elantra N or a similar FWD car spend the money for the winter on great tires and you will be just fine.
Great video thanks Matt & Zack
While I agree you don't need AWD to put up with winter, you do need it to have the most fun/enjoyment. Even a FWD with a limited slip diff is fighting for traction more than you'd like. My old Focus ST was still fun in the winter, but it could barely ever put it's 255hp down.
Former Albertan here. Had a 2002 WRX for a few years. The thing about an AWD vehicle in the winter isn't about whether or not you need it. A real AWD car like a Subaru is SO FUN in the snow. Power on oversteer anytime while still being very stable when you need it- awesome. Way more fun than any FWD vehicle I owned. In the summer I would say that AWD vs FWD is a close battle, but then RWD is really the winner that time of year anyhow.
*as long as you don't have to drive on hills
Nicely explained in a recent Engineering Explained video!
In some areas like northern VA (DC suburbs), there is not enough cold to justify snow tires. They'll get chewed-up in no time, due to warm days mixed with cold. You'd have to swap wheels/tires every 2 or 3 weeks. AWD with all-seasons and you can drive all year round on the same tires, except the heavy snow once every 5-10 years (which you need an SUV or a jeep to get thru until it's plowed).
You most likely don’t live in the mountains. Go ask your friends in BC how well a FWD car can make it up a 15% grade with unplowed snow in the winter.
I have a 22 and love it. I wouldn't spend this type of money on it though. I bought my limited new for well under msrp at the time. All I did was install a short shifter kit and it's great. The car works for my lifestyle.
at least now, there's a easy factory brake upgrade option??? I guess?
Lifestyle of gay sex, right?
@@ciello___8307 Let's hope for that at least.
In Canada, the loaded manual “sport tech” is the same price as the new TR (we call it an RS in Canada). Both are $44k CDN. $44k CDN is $32k USD. That’s a pretty good value. Pricing in the US seems weird. It’s worth mentioning that in 2022, the new loaded manual VB car was $39k, and then inflation took its toll largely in the jump from MY2023 to MY2024.
A very thorough review, love all of Zach’s inputs. Thanks
Zach's inputs are what keep me coming back
The new Impreza RS is a great looking car. No cladding. I think if it had a manual, it would be a great daily.
I've had mixed feelings about this generation of WRX ever since it was announced and seeing it again presents me with another question. The efforts to make it more comfortable, quiet, offering a CVT, etc. really make me wonder about an overall trend in the new car market, namely, are people under 30 buying new cars? I mean let's just take the average 25 year-old male, because that's really the WRX's target demographic, right? We know college graduation rates for males are going down (I think it's a little under 40%), we know the average amount of student loan debt carried by graduates with a bachelor's degree is 30k (varies state-by-state), we know rent prices are higher than ever, wage stagnation is worse than ever, inflation rates are through the roof, interest rates are still through the roof, more young people than ever are remaining single for longer. So like, your average 25 year old male is most likely single, meaning 1 source of income, either still lives at home or is spending half of their net income on rent even with a roommate, has student loan debt, statistically speaking probably didn't even earn a degree but is still holding that debt, working outside of their field of study most likely in some sort of entry level or unskilled position meaning lower wages (national median gross income for an individual is $37,00/y), might have other sources of unproductive debt (credit cards, personal loans, payday loans, etc.). So like in this scenario, which is the reality for a lot of young adults, who the hell under 30 can afford to saddle yourself to a $500-$700/m car payment before even mentioning owning and operating expenses? So inherently, from the automakers perspective, who does it make more sense to market this car to? The kids 18-28 that can't afford it? Or the 30-40 group that might be able to justify the expense? TL;DR cars are changing because young buyers can't afford them
Thank you for this, I couldn’t agree more!
Nailed it
I think sad truth is that the true hot hatch/sedan is long and gone. All of these now are target 30-40 year old millennial, granted a lot of them probably struggle to pay bills, buy groceries, and afford a high car payment.
There's also the fact that a lot of people now are either shacking up with multiple roomates too cut down cost, or just simply not move out of their parents house. One of my co-worker(20M) is going to school full time, while working full time, and living at home. He managed to save up enough money to buy a brand new 3 series. Another guy(27) that just figured out how too make smart investments so he has makes a bit of passive income on top of his full time job.
Valid points. I could never afford a full fledged performance car in my 20s and 30s so I bought an Elantra N at 40. My wife hates how low the seats are, and I get annoyed at the firm suspension every time I go over a bump and coffee splashes out of the cup. It makes sense from a business standpoint to make these cars softer and more mature. Although, if they marketed the Legacy Sport correctly they could do both. The WRX needs to be cheaper though for younger people to be able to buy them.
Never thought of it this way. And I am very agreeing to your point of view. Good work. I am glad I have both 06 sti and 18 sti at my garage
Hes right about the shifter they have always been trash....the problem mainly is the stock shifter bushings are straight trash. Then if you upgrade to a kartboy shifter and bushings you also have to change to an aftermarket reverse lockout and a weighted shift knob to get a perfect feeling shifter which will set you back about $600 just in parts.
Love my 22. Wouldn’t waste my money on the tr though..premium with sound system and sunroof is good for me.
Same here bro, 2022 and love it. I have a ETS intake and Ale-back and is more than I can ask for a daily driver
@@Wrx-qc6dy I’m running a JB4 and remark exhaust. Couldn’t be happier. Hits 5psi over stock.
Thd WRX just can’t compete with its competitors now. Zach is 💯 about the early ones being revolutionary in their time.
Please name me a good AWD manual car brand new around 30k… you can’t. 😂
@@arminski1996 if you don’t need AWD, it doesn’t matter. There are so many FWD cars that are better.
@@benglasby8014irrelevant argument. The criteria was AWD and manual.
@@benglasby8014”are better” - you say that, but you dont say how, why, etc. comment is click-bait meaningless.
@@tomrakusan1179 an example would be the Elantra N. Handles better, is quicker, and is cheaper. The TR package has improved it, but no LSD, no power upgrade, but the cost will put you in golf r territory price wise.
Something they didnt mention or I missed it. The new TR will have all of the eyesight features missing on the manual. You will now get adaptive Cruze in the TR.
Oh!......yay......cool......awesome.......
I'm pretty sure eyesight is going to be on all the new WRX trims.
@Drayden42 yes eyesight will be standard on all wrx trims even with a manual transmission unfortunately.
For the money Subaru is asking for this car, I would have liked to see a rear LSD and a rear biased or controllable center diff. GR Corolla offers both of these things at a lower price point.
My dad bought an OG TR back in 2006, it was spartan on the inside, but mechanically offered a lot for the money - 24 grand got you 230 hp, fixed piston calipers front and rear, and a rear limited slip. That's 38k in today's money, right where GRC Core with performance pack comes in.
I have a 2022 WRX Premium. Quality of build is excellent. Have driven in a foot of snow on the stock summer tires with no problem thanks to the four wheel drive. This thing handles like crazy. Yes, other cars are faster in a straight line, but I can blow by them through traffic circles and on winding mountain roads. This thing is tuned for high speed highway travel and slicing through curves. Have fun driving this car every day. Fuel economy is descent too. I really like this car. Told my Subaru dealer to let me know when they get a TR as I am interested. Not sure I will buy it as it is pricey, but who knows. I like the WRX way more than I though I would.
How decent is the fuel economy?
@@HadEnough745 About 25 mpg in the city and 28 to 32 mpg highway depending on how heavy on the gas pedal.
Bs you did not drive in 1 foot of snow with summer tires. Lol
@@marcov9808 I sure did.
Should’ve gotten brembos + STI 6 speed + BBS’s and it’d have been proper
that would push it into the high 40s ..
@@Teromi yea that’s true, but imo VB should’ve gotten the STI 6 speed in every model and the price should be the same as it currently sits. Obviously that’s unrealistic but that’s what should’ve happened imo
@@bradydevergilio7478 I agree. The TR model should have the STi 6 speed and Brembos, essentially an STi. Even if the price is in the 40's, that's fine. That's what higher tier models are for. This TR doesn't feel like it's special enough, to me.
@@bradydevergilio7478 Honestly that would made so much sense, given how easy it is make power with the FA24. Mass production would made it cheaper, and they could of given the DCCD setup to the TR.
Please Subaru give us the STi on the FA24!!
I have a VB, I love it, I wouldn't spend this kind of money on one. It's an awesome car in the low 30's for what you get (great handling, AWD, manual, quick enough to be fun) but at 40+ I would have been looking at other options. Even if this were a proper STI for like $45k I would be considering something else. Not a GR Corolla or a Golf R, but probably a BRZ or Miata or something that is sportier and cheaper.
I have one as well and it’s a fun car. I am def enjoying it. But the TR is not worth the price for me just cause it has brembos. Corolla was to expensive I think and very little room compared to the VB I think. For the price I am on with my premium model. The TR is not worth the money for a TR badge and the other things they made changes too including same power. If this was an STI them maybe I would consider.
I paid 39k for a Limited trim was glad to keep it under 40 with taxes and all.
I had a base manual VB and it was fantastic, AWD is so good in the Pacific Northwest. For 30k it was a pretty good deal considering all the competition was marked up. Unfortunately, it got totaled by a falling tree a week ago.
I'd love a TR but the price is just a non-starter. WRX is great at the low 30s price range but the value proposition gets dicier the closer you get to the 40s.
I'd grab one used in a few years after the first owner takes the depreciation hit. I've seen Limited trim WRXs in the low 30s with low miles.
I’ve thoroughly enjoyed my 22’ sapphire blue premium in VT. It’s doing a great job handling an absurd amount of weather situations. Yes not a track weapon… honestly if you want to be fast in tarmac there are better options… but if you want to be fast and handle variable terrain and weather conditions this is a compelling solution. The cladding really helps protect the fenders as well, and I think they make the car look cool.
finally someone acknowledges how bad the shifter is. ive been saying this since the split case 6 speed cable shifter came out
Agreed, though a Cobb shift stop helps a lot and it’s not expensive
You don't feel turbo surge because the turbo kicks in early and being a larger engine it can make the same power with less boost than the previous generation.
The goal was to make the turbocharged 2.4l feel like a larger NA engine with a linear powerband and power low in the rpm range. Turbo lag is cool and all cuz the power surge but its bad it corners and it sucks when you have to wait for boost to kick in. The fa24 makes peak torque at 2000rpm the twin scroll turbo, also spools up quick.
No driving enthusiast wants their stock turbo car to feel NA lol. I highly prefer NA engines but one of the only things I liked about my 2004 WRX was the turbo sound and kick. Friend had a 2012 WRX and even that early on the turbo noise was virtually eliminated and shifter feel completely muted, less understeer / better rotation but I hated that thing. Subaru would rather cater to everyday people over driving enthusiasts. “But we have the BRZ for that”
Low RPM torque is cool, certainly my ‘04 was lacking there as the engine felt anemic and essentially non existent before 2800-3200RPM. There are benefits to what they have done but the car has zero character vs earlier models. I do highly prefer the EL manifold sounds though, glad they went that route since the FA. Even out those cylinder temperatures
Hopefully the FA revs up quicker than the EJ205 and 255 for rev matching, couldn’t believe how slow they felt once I traded my WRX for an AP1 S2000. Even my mostly stock NA6 MX5 felt so much more responsive. I understand the appeal of NA but this is FI why take away the experience of such. Want it to feel NA throw on a SC instead
@@Weather_Nerd An intake gives you turbo sounds, the shifter can be modded easily with a shift stop and short throw shift lever
@@Weather_Nerd I have no experience driving older models. I do want to see what everyone be talking about tho.
@@Weather_Nerd It revs up quite quickly imo. Heel toe and normal rev matching is no problem for me.
8:12 I love the matt black cladding, like a 1980s sport package. #gti #volvoGT #Renault
Not sure why people don't realize that Subaru is no longer a car enthusiast brand anymore. Other than the BRZ, they don't have a purpose built performance car like the S209 anymore. That project proved to be a failure. They make their money by selling Crosstreks and Foresters. WRX today is just a shared platform with all the other soft cars and it showed in the track it can't hang with other purpose built cars. STI wasn't profitable, they kept having ringland problems no matter how bulletproof the transmission was their engines suck. HQ probably shut the segment because it is losing too much money from warranty and recalls. Then you have cars like the Elantra and Kona N come out recently and spanked the WRX easily for less money. Why would someone spend $40k on this car when there are so many better choices. This isn't even faster than used 2017 Type Rs.
To be fair, The new type r FL5 is only faster from a dig, When roll racing the old 2017 FK8 is faster either way no spec WRX with awd stands a chance against the type r on the track or straight line & it’s like your implying that’s there slow 2017 or not 🤷♂️
Subaru is the only company that comes to mind that can get away with rebadging the same "sport enthusiast car" every year with almost identical specs, no power increase and truly making the driving experience worse every new model. They abandoned their enthusiast drivers (a huge percentage of their demographic) by never truly improving the WRX/STi, yet charging more year after year. This brand has clearly shifted their focus to care too much about the fluff when the customers of these vehicles just want more reliable power. And a manual.
Base model lease payment with almost no money down for 2023 was 90$ bi weekly. Best bang for your buck ive ever had in a car
Idk... i bought my GR STi new in 2011. It has 87k miles of abuse. Maintenance always on point. Still running strong and healthy... nothing has really changed performance wise since that STi till current except for the price increase. However, I'd be really hesitant to buy a used STi or even WRX. This car the WRX TR is like 43k thats insane. People are gonna buy it though. Im not a big fan. Im also not a fan of the EJ257 lol but alas here we are.
I absolutely love my '22 VB. Absolute best all-weather car I’ve ever used. Let the haters keep hating! Let’s go team VB!! 💯
Love my vb and I live in colorado
@@timothyvu7006 perfect place to own a VB. I’m a snowboarder and spend my weekends in the Sierras. I’m always looking forward to snowstorms so I can have a little bit of fun in the car as well as on my board ✌️
agree, our vb can beat other cars, i enjoy my vb i recently found out it has open diffs front and rear, if only it be like sti with front lsd and the center dccd and the rear lsd. but gpt proof we dont need it, search "initial d ae85 vs silvia race". in that is good driver takumi with ae86 with lsd just like sti and his friend itsuki buy ae85 which is like wrx without lsd. but guess what, you put the good driver takumi in the ae85 and he still beat a car, silvia, in a race. that show me it is more about driver and if i get good will easily beat sti, evo, gr corolla, gtr.
@@elsicario7359yeah LSD is truly beneficial when you’re doing a track day and you’re trying to drive really hard out of a corner and want maximum grip. The viscous open diff setup on the VB is fine for daily driving and spirited canyon carving. The chassis on this platform is already very rigid and planted. You just have to drive this car like a FWD around corners.
Subaru needs to fix these fenders, it’s been pretty universally accepted that the cheapen the WRX and make it look like a Crosstrek.. Plus, the custom painted color-matched ones are proof that it looks SO MUCH BETTER
The vb guys that actually buy these cars say otherwise. Painted fenders look like ass
@@samjaw82 Uhh what? Look up any new WRX with paint matched flares and you'll see how much better it looks. I've never once seen someone say the painted flares look bad, lol. I own an 06 STi, I'm on several Subaru forums.. who says they look bad paint matched? That's just crazy. I personally don't even mind the stock black flares that much but they're just that much better painted.
@@hhasteI prefer the stock cladding on my ‘22 ignition red. Paint matched flares do look good depending on what else is done to the car though, primarily wheel/tire setup
I disagree, stock cladding looks better especially once you start modding the exterior
@@hhaste I've seen people who got there's painted, and then thought it didn't really end up looking right. Personally I kind of like them unpainted, it adds the rally inspired look.
The ugly af bumper is biggest offender, I don't how they couldn't come up with something better. Like that bumper JDMmuscle recently came out with looks 1000x better than that big plastic diaper.
I have a 23 limited, the STI aftermarket exhaust makes a huge difference. This is my first go with Subaru and will most certainly be my last. Just not a fan of the low revs and the mmi is horrendous.
Get it Tuned
Get a downpipe and dyno tune then make your decision. Transforms it into a totally different car. I've owned my 06 STi since 2008, 16 years now and I'm still not tired of it, after the tune. Granted, I'm starting to outgrow the power now, it's still a ton of fun on the street. More power just means getting in trouble faster.
subarus are fragile in general, and cost thousands on top of thousands to make real power.
@hhaste down pipes don't do much on these intake tune on 93 get you like 330 wheel an if you want more e blends or full e85
@@louKushh Not this new gen. The FA24 can easy make 350-370whp with just a Intake, top intercooler, cat back, and a pro-tune Add a J-pipe and swap to a front intercooler to get 400+.There's already a big turbo kit out too. But then you hit the snag of the fact they carried over the glass trans of the VA, but if you got the money a STI trans swap will solve that.
It's really a shame they didn't make a new STI with a upgraded FA 24 or a new EJ based on it.
As a 2020 WRX(my 2nd WRX) owner over, I’ve decided to move on to another platform for my next car. I was really hoping my next car would be a newer STI. But Subaru has decided they don’t want the business from loyal STI loving enthusiasts. Time to try something else and more exciting.
I have a 2007 STi Hawkeye and a 2023 WRX. The new car has a far better engine and chassis. It’s the transmission and steering feel that are better than my 07 STi.
(Brakes as well).
This new FA24f engine is WAY better than any Subaru engine in previous WRX & STi models.
This is the best WRX ever made, just need to do an STI trans swap which is easy to do.
Go test drive a GR Corolla if you can, you'll fall in love.
@@JK-tu1xx I have driven one. What a blast that car is! 👍🏻
The GR Corolla interior is straight up TRASH. The hatch is absolutely useless. It’s smaller than the VB trunk. Also, on paper the GR has more power, but it’s really no different to drive than the new VB, especially on the street. I don’t think the added cost is justified.
Such a shame the STI is gone. I wish this new body style was as good looking as previous gens. I'm seriously looking to jump into the Subaru world. As for now though, I guess I'll stick with my 9th gen Si.
Or get a 2021 sti
Only thing I wish I could take and bring over from when I had a 2009 Honda Civic SI was that transmission
Congrats on the "premium" TH-cam plaque 👍👍
About the car - i wish they put this drivetrain in the new RS wagon, but whatev, at least they're leaning into the manual somewhere.
Now if they would just paint the cladding...🤦
I actually like the idea of the gear ratio being short. Most people will use this car as a daily which means you can enjoy flicking through the gears in normal roads without breaking the speed limit all the time. Other manuals I have you boot it in 2nd and then you're done.
I own a 2007 WRX TR that I bought brand new from the Dealer when I was 24. I bought it at a time before I could afford an STi with hopes that, one day I would upgrade. I liked the hatch STI in 08, but was surprised that not much improved with the powertrain from the 07 STi. I held off with hopes that someday Subaru would give it a bigger bump to keep up in the early 2010's with competition. That never happened. I kept my TR because it was reliable, dependable and fun. That being said, not sure I will ever get another Subaru. I have an Ascent as well, and the looks of everything in their lineup now just turns me off. They really need to improve their looks and steal a designer like Peter Schreyer or Tom Kearns.
Nobody ever thought we’d get the GT in a manual and here it is folks. And the Impreza still exists.
Yeah I'm not sure what they said the Impreza and Legacy are gone
For me, as a 2014 WRX owner, the power band in the 22+ is odd. Not saying mine by any means is all that great, but at least I can wring it out to 6700rpm and that feels dramatic and fun. When I test drove one of these, I was surprised by the low redline. Additionally, it only makes 6hp more than mine, and it just doesn't feel it. I think it's a heavier car than my hatch and you feel it. Last thing, the transmission to me feels awful. Pretty rubbery and uninspiring. The 5speed in my WRX is at least connected via a linkage to my hand and actually feels nice and notchy (I have the factory short throw installed). For me, the new WRX in any flavor just does not do it.
The 2022, although “only” 6 hp more, has a torque curve as flat as a table that starts at under 3,000 rpm. It pulls way harder than an FA.
Really unfortunate. The first time i saw one of these, i thought it was a new civic from behind. Then i got up next to it, and i was like oh they changed the outback again. Then i saw the wrx badge, and i said yuck.
I think the WRX would be such a compelling buy in the segment if it looked a bit nicer.
And didn't have a SUV engine.
The base manual MSRP is 30k and selling at most places for below that. Name a better car for that price. If I was 30 again, it would be on my buy list. I had. 2004 back in the day but outgrew it.
@@stevelouie5928how about a base model Camry starting at $26,420.00. May not be as fun but over all definitely a more reliable car that is guaranteed to last longer.
@@stevelouie5928The Base is poverty spec, especially compared to what the Elantra N and GTI 380 S offer for the price of the WRX Premium.
@@DM72513 this is one of the best motors Subarus out out in a long time. It just has a tiny stock turbo. People have made 600whp+ on unopened motors with it already.
The VB WRX is a great value. I have a 23 premium that was about 32k OTD. I have an intake and a dyno tune from a local company on 93 octane and made 349whp and 370 torque.
These have no issue making power its the glass transmission you gotta worry about lol.
Don’t push it towards 400 and you should be good with the transmission so they say
@@jangelr94update: the car already blew up.
@@jangelr94 that's the plan until I swap in an STI drivetrain like others are doing.
@@JRDallas19 I'll let you know if and when I shred 3rd gear lol. It's been perfect so far!
If you haven't driven any of the other cars it competes with it's a solid value. The problem is I was coming out of a Stage 1.5 MK7 GTI and had a spot on the GRC list when I test drove a 23 VB Premium. To say the manual gear box and engine were completely numb and uninspiring would be an understatement.
They also don't mention this in the review but a lot of this has been changing. Changes are also a difference in the factory alignments specs. The TR seem to have more castor when they come to the dealership and more camber. We adjust the toe base of a specs which seem to be the same range.
The TR is a no-go.
But a premium for $32K + etune, yellow stuff brake pads, intake, catback?
That’s the sweet spot for the VB. You could be all in with those mods for $36K, and you’d have a great car.
As it stands, I think the TR should’ve had an extra 40HP for the price they are charging
The WRX TR (or the RS in other markets) IS THR EXACT SAME PRICE as the loaded manual trans sport tech in Canada.
You can change climate temperature with the buttons on the side and avoid using the slow screen. Also, when your heated seats are on, hold down the seat warmer button on the screen to turn them off. This way you dont have to push 3 times.
I didn’t know about the button hood trick, thanks
Truly embarassing that a sports sedan is available with a CVT over a ZF 8 Speed or a DCT. Even the Elantra GT has a DCT option.
Not gonna lie, the plastic cladding has grown on me 😮
Back when the 22 came out I was out at the dealer getting a recal done on my 21 sti, so I test drove a 22 and was not impressed, feel of the car overall is numb like most modern cars there was no raw feel that the sti had or that the Wrx used to have pre 2015. Yes the 22 can make power cheaper but stock for stock definitely did not handle or brake anywhere near an sti.
you could always swap a sti 6pd and diff when the money allows…
@@todapower82 honestly if i didnt have my sti, i probably wouldn’t be buying a Wrx, I would set my sights higher. I’d be better off getting a used Gtr because by time im done buying and modding another subi that the price range i would be in.
Odd, cuz i had a tuned 2019 and did the same as you. Test drove the 22 and walked out the same day with it. I will say, i only buy Subaru and cant really buy anything else for some reason, but the 22 was just better in every way to me vs my 19. I still have an 02 and an 11 as well, but they just sit around collecting dust, especially after i tuned my 22 and got 392whp 433wtq out of it for under $2k extra spent.
@@Turbolious I had a lot more than a tune done to my sti it’s currently sitting at 325 whp 338 tq pump 91. At this point the oem turbo on the vb is better, which is where the higher numbers on the vb’s come from. The oem sti turbo capps out around 330whp on pump gas. At this point the only thing standing in my way of 400whp is a bigger turbo and maybe a header.
Personally speaking, I'm perfectly content with my non-tuned, all original 2023 WRX Sport-Tec (Canada) 6speed. Although it is not my daily driver (2021 Accord 2.0T Sport) it's a great weekend toy and fast little runabout to the cottage on weekends. Tossable, fun, very quick, very flat and planted while the manual is a blast to drive and far better than the last WRX I drove thanks to it's flat power curve and smoothness. Yes, the brakes are not steller and actually not as good as the Accord Sport. I do wish larger 19inch wheels filled up the wheel housing but overall I am happy and more than looking forward to bringing her back out of winter storage.
Spec for spec the wrx is hard to beat all wheel drive/ turbo charged. Subaru still has the sti trans why they cant offer that as a trim baffles me
I normally love your reviews, but i think automotive influencers have been spoiled by all the cars they drive. This skews theire view of some of the good cars. I have a 2024 WRX base model and think its a blast after just adding a slightly louder exhaust to get a bit of noise, and then some sticky tires and nicer wheels. Its a great car for basically $35k I've spent. But you guys would probably think its boring because you just test drove a $200K Porsche.
The STI used to be a screaming deal when super cars had 350hp. Nowadays, the STI is just old tech, and there are many better, and cheaper, options.
I would love to hear what “cheaper” options are out there! Most cars are getting killed off, and the enthusiast models that are left have all dramatically gone up in price.
My god Subaru just bring back the uneven headers, some of us crave that old rumble.
Excellent and honest review. Thanks so much, Penn & Teller.
The TR is a secondary slap in the face for me. I planned on ordering the new STI as soon as it dropped and they pulled the rug out from me a few months before the expected release date
Ha same as me. I sold my limited 17STI for a 1 year old S4 to enjoy while waiting for the new higher HP STI. Subaru is killing the excitement for us car enthusiasts. All the Subaru dealers have so many on the lot cause nobody wants them since the total make over failure.
Maybe I’m confused but Matt said there is no Impreza or Legacy (in terms of models without cladding) but there is a 2024 Impreza, Legacy, and BRZ without cladding 8:31
He says things without thinking quite a bit.
@ericsantschi4612 think you're being generous. Don't think he really knows too much or bothers to research in advance either.
Having owned a decent spec 2015 I genuinely do not understand how a WRX is a $50,000 car now
Ngl, my base VB is going to have everything this WRX and more for less than what this is asking, including what I spent just to make it look not ugly.
In the opening scene the dude in denim walking behind the car to take a leak is gold, lol
There is no possible way the gr corolla has more interior volume or trunk space than the wrx. The corolla hatch is TINY inside
8:35 um Impreza is still arround... the Impreza 2.5 RS Version was launched by your friend Bucky Lasek who made you sushi on a skateboard. Funny enough the Impreza is the only modern Subaru without cladding.
The best looking. I think with a manual, it would be a fun daily.
The current WRX is a family car. It's like the Jetta GLI... it isn't specifically targeted towards the track rats as are BRZ, Civic Type R and Elantra N. I have the base VB and the brakes are fine for daily use, they aren't comically bad like Mustang GT brakes used to be. I realize they wouldn't do well on track but I'm not going to take my car to the track. I just want a very capable and comfortable daily with decent back seats and a trunk, and I want it with AWD preferably. In Canada the Civic Si is more money, otherwise I might have considered it but If I'm getting 70 more HP and AWD for 10% less money... If I change my mind about the track, I'll look into upgrades.🤷♀ Apparently Nissan z32 4pot calipers ($150 each) fit with an adapter over the stock front rotor.
The thing I would change the most, if not using an STI trans, is the synchros. They suck. And i agree that for the price there are way better cars. My premium was 37,500. I put in about $5k already. That’s a pretty expensive car when for slightly more i could get something else. However, it is in its own niche.
Waiting on my blue car. Form follows function, and this wins on many levels. Low stress 12psi 6krpm redline, may as well be a diesel.
No thank you Subaru. I’ll keep my STI.
It cannot by virtue of lacking front/rear LSDs alone. Also the center LSD sucks compared to the STI as well.
I played around with one of these on Mulholland with my GFs 10th gen Accord Touring. The $42k fart box couldn't handle a FWD family sedan with a K20C4 and a 10sp auto. I felt embarrassed for the young guy😂
How is it possible that they ruined a legend? Unreal stuff.
We will never own another wrx (or Subi) for that matter.
Liked some things but more things I didn’t like.
If this was given to me, I would sell it and get VW type r.
I miss my 2006 wrx. I liked and learned to drive it with and turbo lag. I hit black ice one morning on a curve going to work. Had it straightened out twice, but the third time lost it. Totaled it frincken sucked. Then got a 2008 tested it hard as I could with the salesman in there. I thought not bad until I had it for a few months. No turbo lag, no excitement and handling sucked. Just my opinion the old one was like on rails handling.
I need you to drive the '24 Limited or Premium and report back about any braking improvements derived from the larger master cylinder. And any handling improvement derived from the suspension mount point stiffening. I'm not sure why you're not already doing that for me. Sort of tired of waiting on you guys. Get with the program.
Good review but the one takeaway i had is that, for the average consumer, they aren’t gonna go out and buy the tr. If you buy a cheaper trim wrx its a pretty big price drop, leaving money for parts to bring it back up to par. The ElanN is 34-36k, the Golf R and Civic type R and like 45k, the GR is 36k. The VB wrx base? 31k. That 5-10k into the fa24 and suspension will make a hell of a difference, and the cost will be the base price of the competitors. i see this as punching up
however, i agree that the tr is a bullshit trim to line subaru execs pockets. It should have at least came with an sti 6spd for that money. If you have more money and want a already set up track car, go buy the gr or ctr. but if you are on a budget and want to build something to your own personal liking, vb is great. the plastic does take about a year to warm up to though. i understand that some people will never like it but thats ok. but the fa24 is no lie one of the, if not the best engine subaru has ever made
I have a '22 wrx premium that I've owned for a year and I typically defend Subaru but this TR trim is a joke. Bigger wheels, better brakes and sunroof delete for 42k
I'm beginning to lose interest in Subaru altogether
Comparing this to my 30 year old wrx type ra. Same power just 1000lbs heavier. Granted daily driving my car would be horrendous.
I think I'd get an Elantra N instead, and invest some of the savings in a set of winter wheels and tires.
I've got one (Elantra N) with winter tires. Any bit of ice or snow build up on the roads make it really annoying to drive in winter. You get jostled all over We just got 5 feet of snow at my house in the last 5 days and it's been parked in the garage for a week.
No mention that the GR corollas diff overheats very quickly?
I feel like they missed on the TR. They should have added the seats and the brakes to a base model. Most people that are "tuners" would rather put after market stuff than have it provided by the manufacturer.
The burble sounds pretty good and the interior seems like a nice place.
I don’t understand why anyone would buy a wrx after 2007
You guys nailed it on the comparisons. A 2023 GR Corolla Core was $37,XXX with destination with the 2 LSDs. You can get a 24 Core with the LSDs for $38,775 including destination. My fully loaded 23 Core was $39,XXX. Why would anyone buy a WRX Limited or TR?
Are these 3 cyl. tuneable yet?.. I drove a stock one fun but slow
@@michaeln.7083It's the quickest to 60 of the competitors that aren't the Golf R. There are tunes that require sending out your ECU that add 40whp and 30wtq on 93 without any further modification.
How does it do when you take it to the track? Not well. That alone is the reason I didn’t get the gr Corolla.
@@DM72513 The savage geese review for the GR is worth a look. The diffs overheat pretty quickly and the cooling is not very effective for track use. The lack of aftermarket support is really hurting that platform already. It will need a few years to catch up to the support the subaru has.
@DM72513 it's quicker stock maybe, my Golf R was a dud and needed gone quickly, My WRX is way faster then my golf,. It's a daily anyway I have a A91 edition Supra for fun and the track.
This reminds me of the Lancer ralliArt, wasn't a full evo but had sprinkles of it
Also in my feed this morning, from MotoIQ: “WHY SUBARU ENGINES BLOW UP!” lol … what a pair of videos to pop up together
lol 😅
Very insightful video from MotoIQ. I sat through the whole thing the other day.
I would take this any day over a 55k Civic. For the price, you get AWD, a possible automatic, tidier proporitons and insane better value with no dealer markups. This is a much better AWD than the Golf.
There are still regular Imprezas and Legacys in the lineup, just not with manuals.
2024 no more Impreza sedan/ manual as well just a hatch with cvt, i have a highly moded 2023 Impreza 5 speed sedan I love dearly.
I REALLY wish the redline was 1,000rpm higher.
even tho its a nice car they need a better engine, paint match parts, a wing from the older cars, shorter throws, a bigger turbo and better exhaust. its 2024 and it needs more power. hell give it a turbo v6 or a twin turbo v6, throw out the cvt cuz they're trash and give it more power cuz its disappointing af to spend 40k+ on a car with shit power in 2024. lose the chrome parts cuz theyre ugly, the side skirts are too big and the engine def needs more power in order to be #1 and beat the competition
So I still don’t understand what Subaru doesn’t understand about the WRX, STI or even the non STI variant. “I want a CVT”, said nobody ever, EVER!!!!!!. Give the car a decent auto, 8 speed or 10 speed, or give it a dual clutch for god sakes. What ever the cost difference is, I would pay it. I’m not sitting in city traffic shifting a manual, and I REFUSE, to own anything with a CVT, I don’t care how good it is. And yes the plastic is shit. It looks horrible after about a year no matter what magical solution you apply to it.
subaru has been disappointing for like 10 years... 2024 and sub 300hp, revving to 6k is insane lol most underwhelming package i could ever think of.
I love how Subaru's answer to the WRX complaints was "ALRIGHT, FINE, CRYBABIES. We'll configure the car the way it should've come for another 10 grand. Take it or leave it."
Been waiting for a new STI since I traded out of my 2016. It looks like I will be waiting a long time. I only got out of my STI because I needed something with more room.
I miss the days (09-14) when the WRX ran 0-60 mph in 4.7 seconds and 13.5@102 in the 1/4.
This, with a roof rack, would make a great only car, especially for snow drivers! However, if you have two cars like me, it doesn't tick enough of the "fun" car boxes, and is not quite versatile enough to be my commuter, hauler, tow-vehicle... etc.
Basically, I like it, but can't see myself ever owning one.
I think the engineers knew going in that the people that cared about more power would be tuning it anyway so they left room for more as well as for a final un official “sti” level trim down the road.
Hope so because my WRX handles terribly since it uses the SUV open front diff and open rear diff, even after upgrading coilovers, wheels, 200tw tires. They really need to release a new VB with the STI handling that the company is known for with the front LSD, center DCCD diff, and rear LSD.
Journalists drive supercars that I'll never even see. Of course a WRX is going to disappoint. Me, coming from a 2007 Xterra, the WRX is great.
I had a 2005 Legacy GT wagon that suffered from all the problems (ride, shifter, clutch) mentioned in here. I was hoping this would be an acceptable alternative to an Integra Type S, but it doesn't sound close.
So is it boring 😴 to drive?
Subaru got to work on the reliability issues especially with head gasket issues, oil and coolant leaks. That manual transmission is almost impossible to drive smoothly. Mazda can really show Subaru to refine all the issues. Toyota is the pinnacle of having all right and reliable.
great review,,,,,have owned subaru's for years,,,,,been thinking about the wrx auto,,,,,,thanks again
I drove gr corolla and suspension was soft also there is much less room in a back than wrx
TR= Truly Restricted 270hp
At least the regular WRX is like the only car that didn’t double in price. A brand new 2.4T AWD car for $31,000 is not bad at all.