Race Car Alignment Episode 5 - Toe
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2022
- In this Episode we set the Toe on the Formula Konig race car and we quickly look back on the comments that were made on Camber. I explain the process to set the Toe, the tools needed and my specific baseline. We address the pro and cons of Toe in and out
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Excellent production Steve. That’s how I do it. Glad you put the mesh in the side pods. It will protect everything in them. Can’t wait for the on track shake down.
Thanks 👍
Thank you, these episodes were very helpful and comprehensive. Let me share you back a tip to make sure the steering wheel is dead-on center: place a bar in front of the steering wheel and let it rest over your windows rolled down (or clamshell, in your 1-seater). Then, tie the left and right spokes of the steering to the bar with belts/cinchs.
Is also good to do the alignment with your weight inside, just as you did with corner balance. You may enjoy having a water dummy or ballast in the seat while you work all the parameters.
Thanks for the good tips Eloi...
We have a multi car touring car team and did the same exact method to align the cars for many years. People can't believe that it is more accurate than expensive laser systems. We now use basically the same method but with hub stands which makes the job much quicker. Great job on the video and you really explained it well. Loved it!
The ever-best explanation I have seen in all my life. Thank you very much! BTW You're a very experienced race driver, not your age but your experience adjunsting your car, in this way you know what to expect from all adjustments, what works and what not.
Gosh, can't wait for track shakedown. Thank you for some of the best imformative videos for petrol heads. kind regards
Coming soon!
Never thought of using a tube cutter Steve. I made my bar marks on a lathe, not running, just turned by hand.
Another thing I have learned today !
Thanks for the comments victor, and yes on the lathe that works also very well.
Hi Steve, thanks so much for an excellent series of videos. I'm driving a Formula Vee in the South African Monopisto race series. I'm a complete novice and your videos have really pointed me in the right direction. Thanks 👍🏻
Happy to hear this Mark, and enjoy your formula V, its a great race car . I am sure you will enjoy it. Also talk to the others that have been driving for a while. They can give you good advice...
These videos are fantastic!! Extremely knowledgeable and very informative! Keep up the great work
Simple and accurate !
Thank you for the tips.
Thanks for the comments
Best instructional setup video I’ve seen
Thankyou 👍🙏🙏
Thanks for the comments
Really good. Thanks from Spain.
Gracias Steve. Excelente trabajo y como siempre, muy bien explicado. Eres un genio. 👍🏆
Excellent video
Thanks for the visit
good job Steve. nice and clean working space you have
Love your work 👍
Thanks for the comments
I do my own string alignments and this was an outstanding video.
Thanks for the comments, and great to hear
I do my own string/ measuring tape alignments but can't decide if I like more or less toe out on the fronts 🙉
Nice job 👍
I am fortunate to have a "4 Post lift and have adapted your type of set up to that. I use lengths of tubing that are somewhat longer than the spacing between the lift corner posts. I buy electrical conduit tubing; cheap and readily available in long lengths. At each post I use a short length of tubing of a somewhat larger diameter than the X-wise tubes held to the post by bungee cords stretched very tight. These support the X-wise tubes and can be easily adjusted for desired height. The X-wise tubes are marked same as yours and can be easily positioned by sliding in the larger pieces of tubing at each lift post.
I tie a loop at each end of each of the strings and slip one end over the tube. I make the string longer than the distance between the front and back so I can wrap the other end over the tube and tension it with a Bungee cord attached to the string loop and the other end to to lift ramp, each side. This gives a very tight string for accurate measurements. I use a digital Vernier for measuring.
On another subject I think I see that your car has a speedometer. I raced several different cars for many years and non had a speedometer. Everything was relative to engine revs. Sometimes it's a bit scary to see the speed and again, not really useful.
As you approach the limiting speed for a given corner you will notice that the steering becomes less responsive, the car is telling you that it has very little more grip to give you.
You do a great job.'
Tom G.
Thanks for the comments
Hey Steve,
Your videos are fantastic, easy to follow, and I love the theory and practical tips. Can you make a video on caster setup? There's a gap in practical explanations out there, and your teaching style is spot on.
Cheers!
Bert
Although toe affects on straight line stability, the final degree depends on the steering design, more specifically the ackerman. A lot of ackerman accepts more toe in until it starts to understeer, and less ackerman needs more toe out to make the car turn a corner. Also, when you are using the edge of your rim to as measuring point, make sure that edge is straight.
Indeed, bended rims will not help, that is also why to check them first..
Great video Steve😀
Glad you enjoyed it
great content and presentation as usual. If you put a couple of layers of newspaper under the front wheels the can slip easier when centering the steering wheel. Best wishes from Australia
Thanks for the comments, and indeed that also works
Hi Steve, can we expect the caster video as a Christmas gift ?
I use the string method but always measure to the flat part of the wheel just inside of where you are measuring, where the tyre bead sits - mainly that's important on steel wheels rather than alloys as you have. On steels, the rim edge can be a bit "wavy" and give bad readings when setting toe.
That is correct... Thanks for the comments
thanks
The wife ribs me all the time about my string and bars. I use it on all our cars. The string never lies. I use a high visibility very thin fishing chord. My bars are set with electricians tape...never even thought of a tube cutter.
works as well...
I like the simplicity of your rod setup...however. Although the lines are parallel the box may not(probably not) be square, which could lead to significant errors in measurement at this level. Squaring the box requires removing the car and measuring the diagonal corner of the box to verify they're equal. That is measure from right front to left rear and left front to right rear...Straighten the string and rods until all is equal and you're ready to go.
Thanks for the comments Rick, and yes that is one method that assures a square wire frame...
@@D3Sshooter Did you use another method to square the frame?
Steve, Minis being FWD have a slight toe out to compensate for the drive shaft forces would this be the same on the rear
of your race car where you have CV joints Just a thought ? Cheers Dave
Dave indeed FWD cars have the tendency when accelerating to push the wheels more to the center. Especially with standard bushes are used. That is why you see sometimes Toe Out on FWD's to compensate for that effect. In my case I have no bushes... In a RWD car the opposite takes place,
Steve, That‘s a good point and the other factor with a Classic mini is the steering rack is attached to the toe board
on the body and the subframe is rubber mounted to the body not solid mounted, I have mounted my subframe on my track car with solid alloy spacers and the steering is direct. No good for the road but great on a track. Cheers Dave
Hello, my name is Mike. I'm from the US and California. I really enjoy the detail in your videos. I was wondering did I miss the part on Castor as far as the alignment specs?
Caster is in preparation Michael
Hi, nice vidoes do you make! I'm not able to find part 6 Caster, do you have a link?
Thanks
Of course there are always more ways of doing the same thing the string method is accurate if all the wheels hubs are perfectly straight one other method which i was taught and claimed to be most accurate is to scribe a line on the tires and then measure between the front and rear of the tire at the line this eliminates any run out in the wheels then there are the toe plate that many teams use and may not be as accurate but if your using that method and measuring results as in steering feel and lap times it could be the fastest method and of course wheel fixtures could always be used such as youd see in a alignment shop then its only as precise as the equipment used like you i am a old guy with over 50 years of automotive experience working on vehicles and racing with one track lap record to a car I set up the suspension on that the driver/ car had many years racing at
Thanks for the comments Paul, good points...I never used that method.. I shall try it .... the best is of course wheel fixtures ( with small rollers ) . I verify the run-out if he rims before I start... maybe I should have stated that
Are you going to cover bump steer?
I did in eposide 2 I beleive
Don't feel about not running toe-out, it isn't as good for cornering as people seem to believe. It makes the steering feel more responsive because as soon as you turn the wheel the inside tyre is already pointing in and grabbing into the corner, but the outside tyre is what does most of the work mid-way through a corner. The outside tyre is where all the weight shifts as soon as you start turning and the more weight that goes onto the tyre the more it distorts, the more a tyre distorts the more you have to compensate for that distortion with both camber and toe.
Plainly; you want the outside tyre to be pointing into the corner more than the inside tyre, because there's so much load going through the outside tyre it can run a higher slip angle before breaking traction.
Thanks for the comments, good points... As far as I am aware F1 runs slight Toe Out in combination with Anti- Ackerman. Would be good to get some info on that
I should mention that all my experience comes from tuning road cars with fairly tall tyre profiles - a racing car with limited body roll won't shift as much weight to the outside tyre and a low profile racing tyre with reinforced sidewalls won't distort as much.
@@dicksandballsnshit3856 , thank you for the clarification and yes things can be different between car types and tire profiles... There are many ways to skin a cat ( as they say)😀
A great educational video (as usual :-) ) and a simple way of doing the alignment! Thanks! Just a brief thought and possibly a stupid question: How do you know that the front wheels are pointing straight ahead and the steering wheel is dead center before the adjustment? What I mean is ("I" is a wheel:-) ): "I" and "I", not "/" and "/", or "\" and "\"? We are talking about millimeters here and the steering wheel could be off-center...
Rolf that is a very good question... In one of my previous video's when I was rebuilding the front , there I have set the steering house/ steering wheel in the middle position by just measuring extreem right and extreem left movements and then set the steering house to the middle position. Then fit the steering wheel in a straight position and have it marked. At that time yiu don't care about the toe , because now that you have the steering house in the middle position we can adjust the toe
@@D3Sshooter Yes, I saw that video as well and it makes sense. However, if you have a standard car and want to make the toe adjustments. You can always roll the vehicle back and forth and hope it lines up nicely. But as said, it is just millimeters of in or out... Do you have a trick up your sleeves other than what has been mentioned?
@@rolflyden6324 there is a method with slip plates, you just drive straight on and you will see the degrees...
But those run about 300 euro/ dollar
I'm a little unsure about how much you adjusted for toe. Did you adjust each front 1.5mm and each rear 1.0mm? That would give you a total of 3mm and 2mm toe front and rear...or at least that's how I learned to do toe. Is that right or did I miss something.
ETA: Your actual toe is greater that what you've set since the toe is actually occurring at the tire surface, further out than the wheel rim. That's why some toe gages measure in degrees.
Rick, a typical setting is about 1 to 1.5 for this kind of mono seaters on the rim. Measured per wheel...... At the end I have set it to 1.5 mm front and 1mm back.... of course you are right that using mm instead of an angle is not that accurate ( as you stated , tire....) . Toe references are sometimes per wheel or total, depending the spec provider. I have a FF-1600 Hawke, with all the baseline geometry factory spec's ( lucky me) and they also specify toe per wheel in mm... ( 2 mm). I have seen other specs with total toe. So yes, you are right .... Of course one can calculate the 1.5 mm in degrees... that is 0.239°
@@D3Sshooter So what exactly did you do to each rear wheel, it's not clear in the video. And how did you make the determination on front toe since it did not show you taking any measurements on the front left wheel.
@@rickden8362 , as the video shows at each rear wheel the front part of the rim is 1 mm further away from the string then the rear part of the rim. The same method is used on the front wheels ( with the steering wheel in the middle position and locked ) . There the front of the rims are 1.5 mm further away from the string than the rear side of that rim. Same procedure is applied as in the back.. I have not put repeating footage of the same process in the video. Thanks for asking
@@D3Sshooter So, just so i have this right in my mind, ''total toe'' in the rear is 2mm(1mm on the right + 1mm on the left). And ''total toe'' in the front is 3mm(1.5 on the right + 1.5mm on the left). I just ask this since it wasn't shown on the video. When you reassembled the suspension, did you verify it was tracking straight with the center of the chassis?
What about positive caster, very important !!!?
Invento argentino
Is that an MBC GT you have there?
Yes it is, its my track GT a 1925cc large valves, DCOE, kent cam, stage III with 180HP on the dyno
@@D3Sshooter I've had 3 MGs. A 60 A, a 68 B and a 67 BGT. Living in the Midwest, it wasn't the smartest thing since the heaters were inadequate, and the electronics sucked. On the GT, I rebuilt the engine and put a higher lift, longer duration cam in it. Got a few more HP, but the increase in mileage was surprising.
I think, you have to put the weight of the driver in the car. Then the steering house will go lower, so the too-in shall chance.
No, because he corrected the bunp steer first.
@@Paulman50 , Indeed Paul
See reply from Paul...
Hi you well Come MR.