Loving this series about setup, this is the first detailed video I have ever seen in the building and set up of a single seater, looking forward to more, thanks Steve.
honestly these videos are just incredible. As someone who is running a radical for the first time this year, these kind of insights are just invaluable, especially the tips, tools and expertise to apply when rebuilding parts or what to look out for. If you come to the UK you can drive my SR3 at Donington any time you like!
Lucky to see this video! These days I've been in the garage adjusting the coilovers and can't get a satisfactory result, now I understand why 👍 thank you！
Thanks for all your videos Steve , I have learnt loads from you. In keeping the with the KISS principle maybe..... I wondered if water , or ATF fluid possibly , in see through piping could be used to immediately display chassis levels changing with adjustments to spring rates and rod length ? Maybe a simple chassis fixed lazer shining onto stationary pair of marked posts instead ?
Hi Steve, I use Gym dumb bell weights, to the same weight as the driver. Canvas tool bags with sand/ stone inside work too. Saves you climbing in and out ! Cheers, Neil
It's interesting how complex this is in a static environment - before considering the changing aerodynamic effects once the car is moving at different speeds. It shows how much work F1 (and other series) have to do during practice sessions to dial in their cars for each particular circuit.
Thanks for the comments, Indeed and I am just scratching the surface of all the aspects that relate to a static set-up, how they interact. In a dynamic environment things become even more complex. Today mathematical models are used to calculate and set the proper geometry. Sensors and controllers monitor , analyze and control the forces and associated settings to compensate in F1. It has become a scientific effort... Of course drivers will provide equal feedback, as nothing beats the real experience. At the level I work , things are more oldschool... as I do like the KISS principle.
Thank you for video. I am a little confused though… LR and RF were heavy and you slacken off LR to take weight off and then also tighten RF…. Does tightening the RF not add weight back to the corner?
@@D3Sshooter I’m still confused however. I understand to add weight that we must tighten the spring (pushing the wheel into the floor) but to add weight to the diagonal which is LR and RF should you not tighten the springs on this diagonal and/or loosen the springs on the RR and LF diagonal. You tightened and slackened a spring across the same diagonal. I appriciate You taking the time to reply thank you. Your alignment video helped me to find that my race car was indeed towing out 16mm up front. No wonder was a handful on turn in 🤣
@@D3Sshooter Amazing videos, thanks, but I am also a bit unclear about ehats going on with slackening and tightening. why does the ride height not change like this?
Realy nice video !! I have question may be dump one .. In coilovers that you have the spring load avec the ride height separated, do you still adjust the ride height and keep the preload or do you shorten/lengthen the spring without touching ride height ? Sorry if i mis understand this part, may be usefull for some as me ^^'
Riding height and spring load are closely related... Cars with separate adjustments for riding hide ( not on the coil overs). Should be set first while the spring load is set equal on all by adjusting the adjustment rings. Then check the cross balance and adjust the spring load, afterwards re-check adjsut the riding height.. do this a couple of times as it all relates..
11:00 shouldn't a rear biased weight distribution be prefered? I assume its rwd in which case you want the most weight on the rear during accel , during braking it would even out closer to 50/50 and in cornering you would be right but we could tune with assymetrical roll centers? I didnt build a racecar so its all theory no practice Edit: forget assymetrical roll center i forgot anti roll bars existed
Thanks for the comments, in general the central point of gravity should be as low as possible to the ground and in the middle of the car. yep anti roll bars..as per your edit... happy holidyas
Shouldn't the ride hight adjust affect to this also? Even more than the spring pre-load? If one corner is off by a millimeter, that corner pushes the car harder against the scale than any other corner. If you compensate that by softening the spring, that corner has different dynamics compared to other corners. If the spring load is different side by side, also the traction is different side by side. Line the springs up and set the pre-loads to match for the coil-overs on a bench for the dynamic balance, and use the scales to fine tune ride height adjust.
That is indeed the case, ride height and force on the coils (longer or shorter) are very closely related. If you change the spring energy ( lets say tighter, so compressing the spring) , it will push the suspension down and raise the riding height. That is why this is a process of iterations , checking , adjusting. I did it four times to getto these results. It was a bit to much for the video ( to long and always the same work). In the first round, my riding height had changes from 80mm to 65mm in the front and 50mm in the back ( not such a good thing). at the end I got it all back to 70mm. The basis I use is : set spring tension when at max droop hand tight , give it 2 full turns in the back and 1.5 in the front. set all pull rods to same lenght per axle . check riding height and adjust on the pull rods ( longer , car goes down or shorter . Shorter car geos up). Now do the Cross Weight Balance test... and adjust for 50%, check riding hide, and adjust pull rods if needed. repeat CWB, check RH until things are set correctly... That is the issue when all things interact...
I'm not sure how the decision a 50/50 static weight balance was the best but it's a false rationale. It sounds OK, even logical but most of the crucial times in a cars handling are not static. When braking you are going to get a massive weight transfer to the front of the car, if you have a 50/50 balance the rear will get super light and may eliminate your ability to trail brake. When accelerating out of a corner, more weight on the rear will be an advantage(depending on aero package, if you have one!). Just trying to jack a 50/50 balance into your car, specially if it's not designed for it, can have have catastrophic results.
Hi Rick, the 50/50 is the best static theoretical ratio as it places the same force on both the front and rear wheels , so max grip. Yes, dynamics will effect many aspects... no debate in that...yet most race cars at the time aimed at 50/50 distribution left/right, front /back as it gives you an equal behaviour while cornering left or right... that is the man point,
@@D3Sshooter However, once you enter the corner the jacking forces of the suspension design take over weight distribution, or more accurately over take it, you will not have 50/50 any more, neither will the front/rear be equal that's one reason rear tires are larger than the front.
@@rickden8362 , that is clear and normal. what I was saying is that you get an equal behaviour not that the 50/50 remains... that is of course not the case
D3Sshooter: your many works to bestow the many knowledges of the mechanics of the automobile & constructions in general, is forever in need of respect in it's affording solutionalities. There needs to be a selective balance point for the expert driver to choose from via immediate on the fly control. How could this be achieved? By simply transferring the balance distribution of it's desired points to the car by the quick fluidic pump transfer reservoirs filled with mercury. Before any comments rear up about the hazardous factors of mercury... please feel free to suggest a different material if you wish. In pursuant to the topic... I would to this day: still love to obtain one of the blueprinted wall sized posters of the 1977 Triumph Bonneville motorcycle titled... ''An Attempt to explain The Unexplainable'' it was told to me by the FW Texas dealer Marvin Bell: that only one of these posters were issued to every U.S. dealer selling Triumph's. I, in turn said that in order for our my cash purchase to be sealed... the poster must be included. So upon that agreeance, we went into his small office. There on the table I laid 20 - layers of 5 twenty dollar bills. He then turned to me & smiled saying... I hadn't seen that amount of cash on that table since the last midnight poker game of 1965. Anyway: the blueprinted poster was pointing out much of what is within your post. The very center of the bikes gravity up & down, left & right balance exists right behind the triangular patent pending plate located on the timing cover. Thus exists the unexplainable handle ability. Anyway again... What in the cornbread hell would I know about it all anyway? ~1971---1974 U.S. Paratrooper Sgt. William 'Rock' Gilpin 82nd Abn. Div. 1/504. 1975-------1983 Texas Bricklayer & Stonemason. 1983---1986 Passenger Elevator Constructor. 1986--------------------2006 TX dot Inspector over new construction of highways & bridges. 2006----------------2022.6 Just another one of those many one's of '''We The People''... who's awaiting His Just⚖Return🪃.
Loving this series about setup, this is the first detailed video I have ever seen in the building and set up of a single seater, looking forward to more, thanks Steve.
Thanks for the comments and I will try
The amount of information of this series put out is gold! I can hardly find any TH-camrs that would explain setup properly. Thanks man
Thank you for the comments.
honestly these videos are just incredible. As someone who is running a radical for the first time this year, these kind of insights are just invaluable, especially the tips, tools and expertise to apply when rebuilding parts or what to look out for. If you come to the UK you can drive my SR3 at Donington any time you like!
Thanks for the comments, I might pick you up on that offer .... the SR3 , enjoy the racing MoBrownRacing
Your explanation of car balance is a masterpiece! Thank you for the lesson.
Glad you liked it!
Lucky to see this video! These days I've been in the garage adjusting the coilovers and can't get a satisfactory result, now I understand why 👍 thank you！
thanks for the comments
magic best car videos ever!!!
Thanks for the comments
Thank you again Steve. You have taught me so much since I discovered your videos. Regards Steve
Thanks for the comments
Thank you very much for sharing this. I could not even imagine how it goes and why adjustable springs is needed. Thank you again.
Thanks for the comments
Great video! This set Up serie is very useful. Thanks from Gran Canaria!
Thanks for the comments
You are a real treasure!🤘
Thanks for the comments
Like even before watching. Great series
Thanks for the comments
Love your work, Steve 👍
Thanks for the comments
Zeer indrukwekkend en erg goed uitgelegd !
Thanks for the comments
Great job Steve 👍. Cheers
Thanks for the comments
Thanks for all your videos Steve , I have learnt loads from you. In keeping the with the KISS principle maybe..... I wondered if water , or ATF fluid possibly , in see through piping could be used to immediately display chassis levels changing with adjustments to spring rates and rod length ? Maybe a simple chassis fixed lazer shining onto stationary pair of marked posts instead ?
Thanks for the comments, yes that can all work
Steve, Please make sure you bring your scales with you when you come to visit me in Austria for my track car lol. Cheers Dave
Thanks for the comments Dave, I sure will Dave
Brilliant brilliant brilliant!
Hi Steve, I use Gym dumb bell weights, to the same weight as the driver.
Canvas tool bags with sand/ stone inside work too.
Saves you climbing in and out ! Cheers, Neil
Thanks for the comments, Indeed Neil that is something that does work very well... I am 62 of age and can use a bit of excercise lol
It's interesting how complex this is in a static environment - before considering the changing aerodynamic effects once the car is moving at different speeds. It shows how much work F1 (and other series) have to do during practice sessions to dial in their cars for each particular circuit.
Just to add to your dynamic effects, the fuel tank emptying and the tyres going through heat cycles will add a few more variables to the intial setup.
Thanks for the comments, Indeed and I am just scratching the surface of all the aspects that relate to a static set-up, how they interact. In a dynamic environment things become even more complex. Today mathematical models are used to calculate and set the proper geometry. Sensors and controllers monitor , analyze and control the forces and associated settings to compensate in F1. It has become a scientific effort... Of course drivers will provide equal feedback, as nothing beats the real experience. At the level I work , things are more oldschool... as I do like the KISS principle.
you make it realy easy to understand. thx
Thanks for the comments
Thank you for video. I am a little confused though… LR and RF were heavy and you slacken off LR to take weight off and then also tighten RF…. Does tightening the RF not add weight back to the corner?
Its is done in several attemps, and yes it seems to be inverse but its not.. what counts is the total diagonal weight..
@@D3Sshooter I’m still confused however. I understand to add weight that we must tighten the spring (pushing the wheel into the floor) but to add weight to the diagonal which is LR and RF should you not tighten the springs on this diagonal and/or loosen the springs on the RR and LF diagonal. You tightened and slackened a spring across the same diagonal. I appriciate You taking the time to reply thank you. Your alignment video helped me to find that my race car was indeed towing out 16mm up front. No wonder was a handful on turn in 🤣
@@D3Sshooter Amazing videos, thanks, but I am also a bit unclear about ehats going on with slackening and tightening. why does the ride height not change like this?
@@danielpluckrose8994did you ever figure this one out? Cheers!
Realy nice video !!
I have question may be dump one ..
In coilovers that you have the spring load avec the ride height separated, do you still adjust the ride height and keep the preload or do you shorten/lengthen the spring without touching ride height ?
Sorry if i mis understand this part, may be usefull for some as me ^^'
Riding height and spring load are closely related... Cars with separate adjustments for riding hide ( not on the coil overs). Should be set first while the spring load is set equal on all by adjusting the adjustment rings. Then check the cross balance and adjust the spring load, afterwards re-check adjsut the riding height.. do this a couple of times as it all relates..
@@D3Sshooter Thanks a lot for your aswer :)
As soon as i receive my Ceika coilovers for ma GT86 i'll do that based on your advice ;) !
11:00 shouldn't a rear biased weight distribution be prefered? I assume its rwd in which case you want the most weight on the rear during accel , during braking it would even out closer to 50/50 and in cornering you would be right but we could tune with assymetrical roll centers? I didnt build a racecar so its all theory no practice
Edit: forget assymetrical roll center i forgot anti roll bars existed
Thanks for the comments, in general the central point of gravity should be as low as possible to the ground and in the middle of the car. yep anti roll bars..as per your edit... happy holidyas
Thanks Man
Drivers weight is part of this distribution I would imagine.
yes indeed
Shouldn't the ride hight adjust affect to this also? Even more than the spring pre-load? If one corner is off by a millimeter, that corner pushes the car harder against the scale than any other corner. If you compensate that by softening the spring, that corner has different dynamics compared to other corners. If the spring load is different side by side, also the traction is different side by side. Line the springs up and set the pre-loads to match for the coil-overs on a bench for the dynamic balance, and use the scales to fine tune ride height adjust.
That is indeed the case, ride height and force on the coils (longer or shorter) are very closely related. If you change the spring energy ( lets say tighter, so compressing the spring) , it will push the suspension down and raise the riding height. That is why this is a process of iterations , checking , adjusting. I did it four times to getto these results. It was a bit to much for the video ( to long and always the same work). In the first round, my riding height had changes from 80mm to 65mm in the front and 50mm in the back ( not such a good thing). at the end I got it all back to 70mm. The basis I use is : set spring tension when at max droop hand tight , give it 2 full turns in the back and 1.5 in the front. set all pull rods to same lenght per axle . check riding height and adjust on the pull rods ( longer , car goes down or shorter . Shorter car geos up). Now do the Cross Weight Balance test... and adjust for 50%, check riding hide, and adjust pull rods if needed. repeat CWB, check RH until things are set correctly... That is the issue when all things interact...
I'm not sure how the decision a 50/50 static weight balance was the best but it's a false rationale. It sounds OK, even logical but most of the crucial times in a cars handling are not static. When braking you are going to get a massive weight transfer to the front of the car, if you have a 50/50 balance the rear will get super light and may eliminate your ability to trail brake. When accelerating out of a corner, more weight on the rear will be an advantage(depending on aero package, if you have one!). Just trying to jack a 50/50 balance into your car, specially if it's not designed for it, can have have catastrophic results.
Hi Rick, the 50/50 is the best static theoretical ratio as it places the same force on both the front and rear wheels , so max grip. Yes, dynamics will effect many aspects... no debate in that...yet most race cars at the time aimed at 50/50 distribution left/right, front /back as it gives you an equal behaviour while cornering left or right... that is the man point,
@@D3Sshooter However, once you enter the corner the jacking forces of the suspension design take over weight distribution, or more accurately over take it, you will not have 50/50 any more, neither will the front/rear be equal that's one reason rear tires are larger than the front.
@@rickden8362 , that is clear and normal. what I was saying is that you get an equal behaviour not that the 50/50 remains... that is of course not the case
D3Sshooter: your many works to bestow the many knowledges of the mechanics of the automobile & constructions in general, is forever in need of respect in it's affording solutionalities.
There needs to be a selective balance point for the expert driver to choose from via immediate on the fly control.
How could this be achieved? By simply transferring the balance distribution of it's desired points to the car by the quick fluidic pump transfer reservoirs filled with mercury.
Before any comments rear up about the hazardous factors of mercury... please feel free to suggest a different material if you wish.
In pursuant to the topic...
I would to this day: still love to obtain one of the blueprinted wall sized posters of the 1977 Triumph Bonneville motorcycle titled... ''An Attempt to explain The Unexplainable'' it was told to me by the FW Texas dealer Marvin Bell: that only one of these posters were issued to every U.S. dealer selling Triumph's. I, in turn said that in order for our my cash purchase to be sealed... the poster must be included. So upon that agreeance, we went into his small office. There on the table I laid 20 - layers of 5 twenty dollar bills. He then turned to me & smiled saying... I hadn't seen that amount of cash on that table since the last midnight poker game of 1965.
Anyway: the blueprinted poster was pointing out much of what is within your post.
The very center of the bikes gravity up & down, left & right balance exists right behind the triangular patent pending plate located on the timing cover. Thus exists the unexplainable handle ability.
Anyway again... What in the cornbread hell would I know about it all anyway?
~1971---1974 U.S. Paratrooper Sgt. William 'Rock' Gilpin 82nd Abn. Div. 1/504.
1975-------1983 Texas Bricklayer & Stonemason.
1983---1986 Passenger Elevator Constructor.
1986--------------------2006 TX dot Inspector over new construction of highways & bridges.
2006----------------2022.6 Just another one of those many one's of '''We The People''...
who's awaiting His Just⚖Return🪃.
Thanks for the comments, wow very interesting... txs